David Block (Founder of Previnex)

The episode you're about to listen to was released back when the Mere Christians podcast was called the Call to Mastery. Now, if you love Mere Christians, you're still going to love these older episodes because the majority of each conversation focuses on how the gospel influences the work of our guests. With that disclaimer out of the way, please enjoy the episode. Hey everybody. Welcome to the Call to Mastery. I'm Jordan Raynor. This is a podcast for Christians who want to do their most exceptional work for the glory of God and the good of others. Each week I'm bringing you a conversation with a Christ follower who's pursuing world class mastery of their craft. We're talking about each gets path to mastery in their career. We talk about their daily habits and how their faith influences their work. Today you're going to hear from my good friend, David Block. David is the founder of Prevenex, which is essentially Tom's for vitamins. So buy a nutritional supplement from Prevenex and they give a packet of their super vites, their super vitamins to malnourished children all around the world. David's had an incredible track record of extraordinary success in his life. He was a scholarship athlete at ucla. He's a graduate of Pepperdine Law School. He was a hedge fund manager and a Wall street analyst named by the Wall Street Journal as one of the top stock pickers in all of America. And it was there on Wall street that David, one, met Jesus and two, saw how the health and wellness industry was in desperate need of redemption. And Previnex is really part of his answer to that need for redemption and part of the Lord's call on his life. So in this episode, we talked about David's leap of faith to give away vitamins to malnourish even before it made sense financially on paper, which was a tough thing for a former Wall street analyst to do. We talked about the wild story of how he came to faith in Christ at the age of 30 and how three separate street preachers in three subway cars in a row helped make this happen. And we talked about what Abraham and Joseph and other biblical characters can teach us about patience and perseverance in our work. So without further ado, please enjoy this conversation with my friend, David Block. My friend David Block. Thanks for joining me.

Great to be here, Jordan.

So I see you frequently in this setting video calls, since you're a member of my master collaboratory for founders. So it's fun to have one of these conversations publicly. This should be really interesting. So because you're in the collaboratory. Obviously, I am intimately familiar with Prevenex, but our audience isn't. So let's start high level. What does Previnex do?

Sure. So we're a preventative healthcare company. We make clinically effective and clinically differentiated nutritional supplements that promote longevity, performance, and everyday health. We also have a big philanthropic component to our business where we donate for every customer order a bottle of our premium children's multivitamin Super Bites to malnourished children all across the world. And that kind of came actually into business, not, not since inception, but later on. But that's. That's about as high level as I can go.

So now. That's great. You've gotten the elevator speech down to a tight 30 seconds. That's really good. So. So I've been using the products. I love it. I love what you call the new breakfast of champions, the Previnex shake. And by the way, like, I have never bought nutritional supplements in my life. Like, I am not one to be known for buying these types of things. And obviously I bought them partially because you're in the collaboratory. I just want to support you. But I actually have, like, really enjoyed the products. I. I've really enjoyed the Jo with private X. Let's talk about the Get Health Give Health program for, for a second. Because, you know the supplements industry, I mean, you want to talk about a cluttered space, this is as cluttered as it possibly gets. And, you know, part of the reason why you guys do this is to stand out, but I know that's not the primary driver. Can you talk about the genesis of the Get Health Give Health program?

Yeah, sure. So we started the company in 2013. Our daughter was born in 2016, which was really the catalyst. So my wife Noel and I have just a huge heart for children, just this God given love for all things children. And so she's a NICU nurse who just has a real passion for caring and advocating for critically sick babies. And we both supported children's charities and children in need and children's causes with our resources over the years. And I guess supporting these organizations and children gave us a really good perspective on some of the challenges that impoverished children face on a daily basis. And so when our daughter was born in late 2016, I mean, total game changer, the most amazing thing, it changed our lives in so many amazing ways. But one thought that I kept having as I held this newborn in my arms, besides, like, wow, we created this little baby, I mean, it's unbelievable, was that there were parents around the world holding babies just like our daughter that were going to lose them to preventable things like malnutrition. And attacking malnutrition as a company was something that I always wanted to do. And I guess the birth of my daughter really accelerated it. I started researching malnutrition and I kind of thought that issue was largely a food and poverty related issue. And what I learned, that that wasn't really the whole story. And So I learned 17,000 kids die every day from malnutrition. Up to 45% of those kids, though, it's actually not a food or starvation issue, it's a vitamin deficiency issue. So you give these children a multivitamin, they live. You don't, they die, which is insane to me. And so I just couldn't believe it. I knew we had to do something about it as a company, so walked into the office the next week, gathered our team. I told them, by the way, I didn't model this out. I mean, there's a backstory here too. As I was kind of, our daughter's born, there's all this craziness going on, like sleep patterns, and people were sending us sermons because we were kind of like, adjusted to go to church. And what ended up happening, I mean, I was praying like, all right, God, after I read all this, like, what? What do you want me to do with this? And I. I felt a really clear answer, which was, I've given you this business, I've given you this passion for children, this passion for educating people about, you know, health and wellness. I want you to think bigger about how you can serve me for my glory. And we were in this really weird moment as a company where it was like, can I even continue doing this? And so that just following that was a big leap because financially didn't make any sense. So didn't model it out. I was like, look, God, I feel you're calling me to do it. So gathered the team and I just said, all right, here's what we're going to do. We're going to, number one, produce the best in class children's multivitamin. Number two, we're going to donate a bottle for every customer order of any product. And so I'm really proud. I mean, I'm so passionate about this. Since we launched the program, it took about six months. So July of 17, we officially launched it. We've donated over 630,000 vitamins to malnourished children in Haiti, Guatemala, El Salvador, Peru. I'm so excited to see the impact we can make there. But that's the genesis of the story.

That's amazing. So it's such a practical way. It's such a practical expression of the glory of God in your business. Right. Especially. And I didn't, I didn't realize the part of the story where you as a former financial analyst, not modeling out how this was going to affect the bottom line of Previnex and just, just trusting, just saying, you know what? God's called me to do this. And one way that I'm going to glorify him is by stepping out in obedience, even if I don't know how this is going to work. Right. That. That's a really beautiful expression of practically how we can glorify God through our ventures. So let's talk about your story. I mentioned financial analysts, so. And by the way, one of the things I've always appreciate about you and one of the reasons why I was so excited to bring you into the collaboratory is like, you're just one of those people that you want to bet on. I always believe in like investing in people. If I could buy stock in people, David Block would definitely be near the top of that list. You were D1 college athlete, UCLA. I mean water polo. So, you know, take it with a grain of salt. People.

Appreciate that.

D1 college athlete, UCLA. It's a huge deal. You went to law school of Pepperdine and then you went to Wall Street. Pick up the story from there. Talk us through the different stages of your career that eventually led to the founding of Previnex.

Yeah, so I started my career as a research analyst initially, like supporting a gaming analyst, so covering casinos and equipment suppliers to casinos. And that was a lot of fun. Was not a Christian at this point. So we were going to Vegas all the time and doing research. And so I accelerated pretty quickly at the firm and was given the opportunity to choose my own space to cover within the parameters of the bank, like your trading volume, investment banking prospects, et cetera. And I came across this at that point. It was kind of this unclassified group of stocks that were in the food industry that had just as you're looking at investment metrics, just these out of control investment metrics, you're like, this can't even exist. I don't know how. Either this is totally fraud or it's like there's something there. And so I kind of put all these stocks into a bucket and they were nutritional supplement companies, ingredient suppliers. And so.

So this space didn't really have a name and a way to classify Them at this time. Is that right?

Yeah. So it was, it was in the packaged. All these stocks were in the packaged foods sector, which was wild.

What year is this?

This was 2003.

Okay.

So I'm doing research on these stocks. I figure out like, wow, no one's covering them. This is a massive opportunity for the bank. And at that point, my whole goal was like, launch a hedge fund, laser focused, make money, you know, live for the world. And and so I was like, this can really accelerate that if I do this. Right. And so what was interesting, so we started doing the research and I think two things jumped out at me about the space. One was there was all this proper clinical data that supported taking advanced levels of vitamins, minerals, antioxidant, other things like probiotics, omegas. As an athlete, by the way, I never took supplements. I had this negative bias towards them. And I just was like, wow, this is proper peer reviewed clinical data. And the second thing that jumped out was really like, it's an unregulated industry. It is regulated, but it's like a self policing space. And as I got deeper and deeper, you just kind of realize that unless a consumer had a background in nutritional science, they had absolutely no shot of understanding what ingredients could promote their health, what products could promote their health. And even worse, companies knew this. And it was almost this predatory industry, which I thought, this is insane. Like, this stuff can extend life potentially and it's just all backwards. And so my job though, I mean, what I did was read clinical studies all day, tour manufacturing facilities, meet with executives, speak with investors, and so built up this expertise primarily in nutritional supplements. Then God, well, launched the hedge fund. That's a whole nother story. God enters my life and then it was like, all right, I'm not designed for this, what do you want me to do? And then it was, it kind of led me into the supplement space as an entrepreneur, which is a whole nother story.

So. Yeah, yeah, so. And I want to come back to that a second, but let's park for a second on the faith story. So I've. And I've never heard all the details of this. Right, but you were raised Jewish, you were bar mitzvahed, right? You came to faith in Christ later in life. How old were you? 30 or so.

30.

30. Can you. How did that happen?

I'll do this kind of succinctly because there's a lot of components to this. So, yeah, I was born into a Jewish family, went to Hebrew school, had a bar mitzvah Some of my fondest memories, probably from up until I was 10 years old, was like Shabbat dinners at my grandparents house. We're praying over the bread and the wine in Hebrew. We got man of shavet Shabbat, we got the good Shabbat set up, right. But I think we were pretty much Jewish by ancestry and it just fizzled over time. At the same time I was ultra ambitious, always poured myself into everything I did. And so probably my high school years, it was athletics and water polo, which scholarship to ucla. First two years we were there, team won the national championship, got to play internationally. And that fueled this, like, oh, this is amazing. You set your mind to something, you can do it. And so when my playing days were over, all eyes were on finance and investing. So read a careers and finance book. I was like, read about hedge funds and I learned that you can make 2% management fee and a 20% performance fee. I was like, this is legal. I can actually do this. This is insane. Not so great for the investor, but as the manager. And so, I mean, I didn't even really know what stocks were, any of that nature. And I just, all eyes on the prize, pursued that with everything I had and then advanced in my career as an analyst, ended up launching the hedge fund, won some awards along the way. And the story kind of changed when I was running the hedge fund because I put so much into the pursuit of that venture. And when I got there, I was expecting like, oh, this is what's going to give me happiness or satisfaction or peace. And it was the exact opposite. I was more miserable. I was just, I just was miserable. And I kind of felt like this is not what I'm supposed to be doing. Like making rich people richer is just not floating the boat, you know. And that's where God started to kind of move some things. And so at kind of the worst moment, the lowest point, I would say I just turned somewhere pretty unfamiliar, turned to God. I said, God help me if you're real and you exist, I want a relationship with you. I want you to show me this at 2:30 in the morning, random day in November. And so the next day, you have to be careful sometimes what you ask for. I mean, that was. My whole heart was craving, like, God, if you're real, I need something, right? So the next day I had two offices in New York. One was out in Long island, one was in midtown Manhattan. And to get to the Long island office, I had to get on three separate subways and then take the Long Island Railroad so get on the first train. And by the way, I'm like, Mr. Efficiency. I know the card, the exact door to enter, to make the shortest walk in each of the trains. And the first train. Street preachers inside the train, just saying, give your life to Jesus. He will forgive your sins. And it wasn't all that usual, but I had my ears up that day. You know, it wasn't super common, but not all that uncommon. I'm walking to the next subway. Give your life to Jesus. He will forgive your sins. Separate street preacher.

No way.

All right, it keeps going. I go to the third subway. I mean, word for word, same message. Give your life to Jesus. He will forgive your sins. And I'm like, this is crazy. Like, this is hard to. I'm a pretty analytical, pragmatic guy. And. But I was like, this is. This is too much for coincidence. I get to the office and, like, 10 more darts are zinging. I'll just share two very quickly. One, I'm checking my email. I think I was, like, pretty depressed. I'd let my inbox stack up, and I get this message from the vice chancellor of Pepperdine, and he's like, churches, I'd recommend you check out Redeemer Tim Keller. And then the mailman walks in. A minute later, I get this manila cardstock envelope that gets delivered. It's from the vice chancellor of Pepperdine, and it says, a better life. And it says, we live a better life when we let our values shape our dreams and our priorities, rather than letting our dreams and our priorities shape our values. And it just struck me that I was living the wrong way at that moment. And I was sick, and I was like, I'm done with this. And a ton of other stuff happened, but I don't want to. This is a long story. But to shorten it and conclude it, I get back to my apartment. I'm lying in bed, I'm thinking about the day, and I'm like, all right, God, I can't explain. This is crazy. I can't explain this any other way than you are real. You answered this prayer. Then the next thought was, well, the street preachers weren't saying, give your life to God. They were saying, give your life to Jesus. And so just 100 out. Like, I went, like any good research analyst. I was like, 100 hours, no joke, going over every question I had. Is Jesus real mythological figure? Is there archaeological evidence supporting the Bible, et cetera, et cetera, and concluded that, yeah, Jesus died and was resurrected beyond a reasonable doubt. And it was I was shocked. But, I mean, obviously the best thing that's ever happened to me. Values changed overnight. So I thought entrepreneurship taught me a little bit more about that. But, I mean, great peace since then, coming to a relationship with Jesus.

What an unbelievable story. I'd never heard the subway part of that story. I mean, talk about. Talk about visible proof that God grabs a hold of us. God chooses us, seeks us out. You know, Paul talks about nobody's seeks God. God sought you out, man. That. That's an incredible, incredible testimony.

So you.

You talked about being ambitious for your work and for your career prior to this. You're still ambitious, though, for the work that you're doing at Previnex. Talk about the shift in the motives for that ambition and what's driving you in this pursuit of mastery of your craft.

Yeah. So I think the very fundamental piece is it's not about me. It's about God. It's about glorifying God. It's about serving others. It's about following God's great mandate and carrying that out through Prevanax. I will tell you, there was a lot of choppy water to get there along the way, I think, because I had pursued money and status and prestige and those. Those wrong things that you can turn into idols, they were still there, even though I didn't think they were. And, you know, even, like, my skewed perspective on money was happening because I kind of wanted to stay as far away from it as I could.

But.

But through a lot of refinement and just trials and faith in just trying to grow an enterprise and a business, God did get me there. I mean, this is about him. It's about glorifying him. And I. The prayer, too, when I was still running, the fun was God, whatever you want me to do, I will. Do you want to go teach in Ecuador? I'll do it. You want me to go like you? Tell me I'm yours. Go do it. That's how we got to Prevanax. But a lot of refinement along the way. But it's about God. Right? That's the story.

You're reminding me of some parallels to Scott Harrison's story at Charity Water. Right. Like, I mean, Scott was saved later in life. He was working in Manhattan. Right. For all the wrong reasons. The Lord powerfully grabbed a hold of Scott's life, and now he's doing this incredible work, trying to serve the world's most vulnerable people and vulnerable kids. We should do a. We should do a call to mastery, live in Manhattan with You and Scott and these like modern day prodigal sons who, who came to Faith in the city. Yeah. At a later age. That would be, that would be. That'd be a really interesting conversation.

I'm in. Let's do it.

So you mentioned to me recently that your grandfather escaped from concentration camps twice, which is like mind boggling to me. And so I'm just really curious. I mean, a big part of your story as an entrepreneur is just like this theme of like survival. Right. Like how. Have you thought about how your grandfather's stories impacted your own work? Entrepreneur and your own grit and just perseverance and surviving with, with this company.

Yeah, it's interesting. So not specifically in those terms, but I, I think it's just in the fabric of who I am. I was thinking about it just before this podcast about my grandparents. So both immigrated from Europe, one escaped Pre World War II, the other came after. And both were entrepreneurs. One had a jewel jewelry business, the other was a furrier. And my dad started his own medical practice, my stepdad, his own legal practice. And so that modeling, I guess, was just always there. I never really thought of it. I always kind of just like to do my own thing. But for sure, hearing stories of my grandfather and he had his mother, father and younger brother executed at Auschwitz in the gas chambers. Now he didn't like to talk about it for obvious reasons, but hearing the story of just the thought that it. Just how he. Yeah, how he persevered. I mean, three months of solitary confinement where he was unable to even lay flat on the ground, and how he kept his mind sharp and just how he. I mean, so he would draw like a chessboard and became a chess master doing it. Just these unbelievable stories, I think were just ingrained in me of, hey, you just take adversity right on the head and keep going.

Yeah, it's been such a theme of your story. Like one of the things I most respect about you, getting to observe you up close is you're in such a tough space. I mean, the nutritional supplements industry is so tough and really capitally intensive. Right. But you have persevered. And I mean, you're too humble to admit it, but like, I consider you to be a masterful founder. You do so many things right in leading this company and leading this team. So I'm really curious to get your perspective on like, what you think is the most important ingredient, pun intended, to becoming a masterful founder. Like what. What's really essential in your leadership at this.

Yeah, there are a lot of things So I don't know if I can get it down to the essential thing, but I do think in many respects, we should have got out of business a long time ago. I think, but for having really exceptional products, we would have been out of business a long time ago. And so I think the perseverance, the grit, walking by faith more than sight through really tough moments, but also transferring that to a team that sees how hard it is, but they're willing to rise to the occasion, I think, because I don't know my leadership or transferring the vision to them and the enthusiasm to them. But for sure, in my. This story, it's perseverance, grit. And listen, this is not my story. This is God's story. He showed up so many times, the Red Sea has parted. And so it just gives you faith that even when you get to the next real moment of adversity, like, God's gonna do it again, and he has.

So I want to talk about some of those peaks and valleys in Previnex's story here in a bit, but first, let's. I want to stay focused on the craft for a little bit because we obviously have a lot of entrepreneurs who listen to the show. One thing that I've really respected that you've done in the last year or so within Previnex is really focused your team on the few activities, the really essential activities that really move the needle for Previnex. Can you talk about some of the breakthroughs you guys have had, you guys have experienced as a result of that increased focus?

Yeah, definitely. So, as you know and probably any listener knows, there are so many things you can pursue within a given venture or as an entrepreneur. And so you really actually helped me with this, Jordan. So I got. I have to give you props, but when we figured out, listen, we really, we. We were chasing a massive opportunity that kind of didn't materialize. And for survival was like, what? We have to get the top line going here. What do we focus on? And we just looked at the full inventory of what works, what doesn't, and concluded that for us, given the quality and effectiveness of the products, we have a staple of ambassadors, influencers, trainers, dietitians, celebrity trainers, athletes, who we kind of leverage the trust they have with their communities. And we just decided, you know what? We know that piece since day one is grown for us. So forget everything else. Even if we're going to lose some pieces, we're going all in. And so that was in Q2, in the summer of Q2, this probably July, we made that Decision. And so we grew the core business. 5% in Q2, 11% in Q3, 28% in Q4.

Wow.

We're on pace to do kind of 40ish percent growth Q1, although it's early still, but wow. I mean, what an amazing, good, great lesson for us on a couple levels. Hit singles all day because that's still going to score runs. But what is the best way you can hit singles? And for us it was that strategy and laser focus and putting real measurable goals into that channel.

I mean if you guys are doing 40% quarter over quarter growth, that's unheard of. Those are some pretty crazy numbers. Investors tell you they're either going to invest in crazy vision or crazy numbers. And I think you've got the makings of both. Right. Which is really, really exciting. It just reminds me of one of my all time favorite books, right. The 8020 principle and very related book Essentialism, which I know I've sent you. Almost nothing matters in a venture. Everything looks important, very few things are. Your job as the founder, as the leader of the venture is to find the essential few. And often in marketing, it really is one thing. Like I'm convinced there's like one traction channel that really drives results and ventures. And for you guys, you know, kudos to you. For one, recognizing that, okay, it's affiliates, right? It's influencers promoting the product. And two, equally importantly, being willing to stop doing everything else even though it was moving the business, but it was marginal and realizing the exponential effects of focusing on that one channel, that there's a lot of wisdom there. I'm really curious. You've been in my collaboratory for about six months now. What have you learned from the other members that's had the biggest impact on your business?

That. Good question. Well, first, so leadership can be really lonely and isolating. There aren't a lot of people, unless they're in that seat that can relate to all of the challenges and ups and downs and the emotions and the balancing that goes into that. So just have that space is amazing. I've gotten tangible feedback on like here's some things you could probably do in your business that could move the needle. And in fact it has. But I think the number one thing is just seeing a group of Christ loving men and women who they're just, they have the same kind of insecurities, the same fears, the same challenges. And that's affirming because I mean we're in it together and we're there to encourage each other and that's just been really helpful. I think the second piece is also just. I've really gotten a better understanding of the theology of work and what it's really all about just for being on that group. Part of that's your teaching and our Bible study, but part of that's too just listening to how other founders are talking about their enterprises and how they're just doing their daily work.

Yeah, we're not meant to do this thing in isolation. Right. And man, to be in community with other Christian founders that are creating their businesses for the same purpose is a really, really powerful thing. Let's talk about personal routines, habits. You're an incredibly disciplined guy. I'd actually love to hear the TikTok of your day. From the moment you get up to the moment you go to bed, what does your day look like?

Oh, love it. Love it. So I thrive on routine. I could eat the same. You, me, both, breakfast every day. In fact, I do. I have our shake. Right. So that's. But I mean, I'm just like. It's routine to a fault. So 5am, get up, work out, spend time in the word prayer. And I found that actually praying right after I work out. I've kind of experimented with the order of this, but there's something about like my body being a little broken.

Interesting.

And going into prayer right after that that just seems to make it a little more effective. I don't know. Not effective, but I'm just more tuned in.

Yeah, yeah, sure.

From there, off to the shower. I'm not going to go too detailed, but here's what I can tell you. The only part of my day I can control is the am. Like the first part and the last part. So the first part is highly structured. The last part is highly structured. I try to even like block out what I'm going to be doing in the beginning of the day and organize around that. But then the day can take on a life of its own. So between 9:30am and 6pm I can have the best intentions, but things can divert. And that's okay. I shut it down at 6. I definitely like, I love being a dad. My favorite title, bar none. And so spending time with my wife and my daughter and then I make it a point now at 9pm to just go to bed. Like in bed, I will read for 30 minutes. I know my sweet spot for sleep is seven and a half hours. If I get seven and a half hours, I mean, excellence is possible.

I love that.

If I get six hours, not so much. It's not. It's just not. And so the habit of reading and filling my mind when I've been in moments, I've kind of had fits and starts with this. I've been an aggressive reader that I've been like, I just don't have time. And I've been back to being an aggressive reader. And when I'm in those zones of reading, I'm always growing. I mean, it's a leading indicator of growth. And so the whole key to this routine though is the PM routine. It's bed at 9, it's reading for half an hour, it's getting that sleep and then repeating. And the one little flexible part of this is like last night my wife and I were at a charity event for our daughter's school and we didn't get home until 10. So the one thing that's going to get cut out is exercise. I mean, it used to be I was so rigid about that. But I'm not training to be an elite athlete anymore, so I'd rather get to sleep. I for sure have to be in the word and praying or the day is going to not go as well as it would otherwise. But then the rest is just structured and it's about executing and just getting after it.

I was going to ask you about exercise versus sleep, like if you had to trade off one, what would it be? Because I know as an athlete how much you appreciate exercise and value that. So that's good to hear you say. And I think a lot of people don't realize the science behind there's so much academic research on sleep and increasing the numbers of books to talk about this. You cannot. You cannot. I think it's like 1% of people who can operate at 100% efficiency with less than seven hours of sleep. So if you think you're the exception, you're 99% sure you're fooling yourself. Get seven hours of sleep. So. And by the way, you and I have been kind of in tandem experimenting with this new productivity thing, putting our phones to sleep. Right. Can you talk about that real quick?

Yeah, sure. So I think just as a general principle, we should always be looking at how can we improve incrementally every day. So part of mine was I realized that getting to bed at 9 o', clock, the main thing that was getting in the way was my own self discipline and mainly just like surfing the Internet on my phone or social media and it just became a rabbit hole. And so I just decided, you know what? I need to make this thing impenetrable starting at 8pm you can't even get into the thing. So I started doing that which was helpful but for Kindle and some other things. And you know, my wife's obviously in like an emergency contact if she needs to get a hold of me. But, but that's been, been really helpful. So from 8pm to 8am I cannot be reached, I cannot be disturbed, I cannot be text messaged, I cannot be. And that's been really, really helpful for, on a lot, for a lot of levels like being a better husband, being more engaged with my wife, being a better dad, being. It's just been good.

So yeah, I, I've been putting mine to bed. I love calling it put it to bed. It sounds like a child, right? And it more in control of my life. I don't know why, just that little, that little term phrase. But yeah, I've been putting my phone to bed at 7:30pm I've been going to bed lately because I've been waking up a little bit earlier at like 8:45pm and I actually bought a Kindle device just so I could read without being distracted by other opportunities on my phone after my phone goes to bed. So I, I love, I love that productivity hack. Hey, so David, we've talked a lot about your passion for marketplace ministry. Can you just talk at a high level? Can I ask you to get up on your soapbox and talk about why you're so passionate about this?

Yeah, sure. So, gosh, there's a lot of reasons. So I'll just the statement up front. I believe with everything I've seen, and I know marketplace ministry is the best way to market, to minister to the world in the cultural moment that we live in and saw a few things that have shaped that. So I served as an elder and trustee at my, my church in New York City for the last seven years. And we had James Davison Hunter come in and he made an argument. We had kind of two weekend sessions, one year apart. And when he came in originally, the argument was we're in this unique cultural moment that has never existed in Christianity until today. And I was really resistant to that.

Because what is unique, what is unique about it? From Hunter?

So he would argue so a few things. Technology, the rise of technology, information. He would say pluralism. We experience pluralism more than any time before, which just puts pressure on Christian practice. You would say pervasive skepticism. Kind of the Enlightenment introduced the idea of doubting everything. You know, pragmatism, consumerism, hyper individualism, loss of the sacred and transcendent. And so anyway, the bottom line, like I got there, I. I kind of got there. Like this is truly a unique moment in time. And I think whereas maybe 50 years ago a pastor in a community was the most respected person, it's just not the case anymore, especially in the United States. I mean, secularism is dominating. I mean, it is on the rise. And I think nonprofits, I can share my thoughts on nonprofits if you want. But it goes back to, I think people in this cultural moment idolize, I mean, business leaders. And you could see it. You just can see it. And so it's kind of a twofold thing. I think excellence in the marketplace draws attention and is a way to open up the conversation to the gospel. And you don't have to be overt about it. You just have to be excellent at what you do and it can drive it. So I think that's one piece of the puzzle. And it's just the cultural moment that we're in. People just have eyes on businesses. And I just think there's tremendous opportunity to minister through our businesses.

Yeah, I talk a lot about this in Master of one, that like mastery of our craft. Listen, the most fundamental reason why we should care about mastery is because it's one of the ways in which we glorify God and love our neighbor as ourself. Right. But scripture's also clear in holding out other promises. And one of them is, I think when we're masterful at our craft, we become salt and light in the world. Mastery is winsome. Mediocrity is attractive to nobody. Right. But business leaders who are crushing it in the marketplace and creating great shareholder value and serving their customers, well, that is respected and that opens up doors of influence and opportunity. One, to just love more people and glorify God at a greater, you know, human scale. But two, to also proclaim the gospel with words sometimes. Right. Have you, have you seen that? I mean, listen, you were crushing at Wall street, now you're crushing as an entrepreneur. Previdex post salvation. Have you seen opportunities open up because you are masterful at your craft to share the gospel?

Yeah, I think so. I mean, when I give talks, whether it's at a business school or a college, inevitably there are people want to connect and which is great. I love it. I love it. A lot of people poured into my life when I was kind of going down this non traditional path. The finance. Absolutely. In speeches. It's. Maybe I'm not overt about it, but it's certainly just There because it's who I am. But in meeting with people, you're talking about what matters to us. It comes up almost all the time because why do we think this way? Well, we believe I have a strong Christian worldview and believe that serving others first is that is what we're called to do that were created by God to do that. And so that, that just comes up, it opens up all sorts of questions. And so. So there are opportunities. I'd love more of those opportunities. I probably could be a little more overt about it, but. But they come up, which is great.

Yeah, but the work in and of itself is good. Right. So you, you talked about how Previdex is helping to quote, make all things new. Right. And that is good in and of itself. Talk about what you mean by that. How exactly is Previnex helping to make all things new and being a part of this broader God driven story of him for the world?

Yeah. So I think when we start with what we do on the donation, the philanthropic side of it, I mean, we know God loves everyone, we know he loves children, it's explicit in the Bible. And we know he loves families and we know he loves everyone. Right. So looking at the children we serve who are either going to die or going to be stunted, they're not going to reach their God given potential. That just hurts me. I mean it really hurts me. And so being able to effect change there with what we're doing is something that's what we're making to do. But the other part of this is we really, we live to serve our customers and we care so much about excellence with product because we want to positively influence the health of everyone but our customers is where it starts. And so just helping people get to a healthy weight, helping people with all sorts of things, I mean there's all sorts of, of testimonials we've gotten. But one story that comes to mind is when I was in high school, we had a family friend who just this larger than life father, two daughters, unexpectedly died of a heart attack. And seeing the brokenness and the interruption, like the brokenness of what happened after that, the daughters and the family, and it just really stood out to me. It's like, listen, not all of this is preventable, but there are certainly things that are. And I think being able to address those through our business and help people at least create health in their own lives is an example of, you know, if we can prevent one person from dying from something preventable, that is reshaping kind of the narrative of their entire life and all the ripples that could happen if the opposite were true. So we think about that a lot.

That is ministry. That is important, eternally significant. You are helping people live more in line with how we were created in the garden. Right. That. That is. That is. I mean, I think it's one of the clearest pictures of redemption. We live in this fallen world. You and your industry and people who've gone before you have found ways to help repair creation, repair our bodies, to live healthier lives, to be more like Adam and ev. Thief, pre sin in the garden. You're pointing us to the redemption of all things. You're pointing us to the bodily resurrection that we will all experience on a new heaven and a new earth that started with Jesus on that first Easter Sunday morning. And, man, that I. I have goosebumps that fires me up with every transaction. You are, in maybe a seemingly small way, but a significant way, doing the Lord's work and bringing the Lord's will about in this earth because you're focused on making excellent products that actually change people's lives in a positive way. I love it. So. So, David, you. I've heard you talk in the past about your story about some of the deep valleys in the story of Prevenex. Can you identify one, specifically, one such valley and talk about what that was and what God taught you through that experience?

Yeah. To pick one. Well, the good news here, there's plenty to choose from.

Yeah.

I mean, in many ways, entrepreneurship has been the most excruciating thing I've ever done.

Yeah.

Financially, emotionally, relationally, physically, spiritually.

Yeah.

I think probably the hardest part of the journey. For four years of the seven years, I didn't take a salary, I didn't take anything out of the business, which was good in many ways because God was refining me around my view of money and. And status and other things. But I just remember there was this moment for the first time in my life that my checking account went negative. I couldn't afford groceries. And when I was pursuing money and hedge fund Wall street salaries, I mean, that just wasn't. That wasn't even on the radar. Right.

Inconceivable.

Inconceivable. And so I remember I had this little change, kind of like Ziploc bag. In New York City, you get deliveries all the time. And this is pretty, you know, everything's on the app, so you're actually tendering cash over. It's crazy. It doesn't even exist anymore, really. But what a world. Unbelievable. So I had all this change. I remember going down to, like, the local bank. They had a little coin counter, and I think my account was negative $24.16, and it was like, $24.20 of change. And it just was one of these, like, moments of, all right, God, you got me. Like your promise in Luke where you say, Maybe it's Luke 12:24 of. Of feeding the ravens is real. And there were so many moments like that. I guess that's the personal story on the business side. Yeah. I mean, there were times where we couldn't even comprehend, or I couldn't comprehend how we were going to make payroll and keep the business going. It just wasn't numbered too big, and our revenue at that time just wasn't there. And it was like, all right, we finally hit our moment. But, God, look, you're a God of miracles. If you want this thing to keep going, it's all you. I mean, it's not just. You've got to show up and just these crazy things that would. Like, a wholesale client that wasn't even supposed to, like, a $50,000 order, and the orthopedic group would randomly reach out and say, hey, we want to partner you with on this. We're willing to deposit this much money. And this has happened so many times. So that's where it's hard to isolate to one, maybe one last thing. When we were so. Gosh, it is a hard journey. I mean, at least it has been for me, a really, really hard journey.

It is for everybody. You're not alone. This is the most exhausting thing you can do is start and grow a company.

It has been. But one of the best things, too, just with everything I've learned.

Oh, yeah.

So there was this moment where out of nowhere, I was offered a Wall street job again, Senior consumer analyst at a pretty prominent investment bank. And the pay package was gigantic. It would have accomplished all the goals that my wife and I have. But this was kind of this moment of like, well, God, did you bring this? Is this your provision? Did you bring this in so that we could step over there and, you know, 80% of that job I actually really enjoyed. But it was one of these moments of, gosh, I don't. I would hate to regret stepping away. So, God, I just need you here. So for the very first time in my whole life, prayed and fasted, had never done it before, and I was just thumbing through the Bible and Hebrews 10:35, 36, came right away in the morning, which was, do not lose this confident trust you have in the Lord. Remember the great reward it brings you. Patient endurance is what you need now to continue to do God's will. And I was like, that's interesting. So I'm like still praying fast and pray and fast. And so I think at around 6pm that day, my father in law, who has no clue that I'm even doing any of this or doesn't even know I'm considering like just getting out of Prevanax and ripping the rip cord, the pain, rip cord and parachuting to something else, sends me in a different translation, the exact same scripture. And so it was like, wow, all right, God, patient turns. And what's been crazy about that, that was like. Like four years ago. Maybe at this point in these. The real key fork in the road moment. Since that scripture gets thrown at me, it's only been three times, but it's. It's insane. And so it's just this faith in God is what's the only way I could have sustained and kept going through this thing.

I love it. And I think you. But I think you deserve a lot of credit for being attuned to where the Spirit's leading around you. I could see those exact same circumstances happening to a different person and them just not noticing it, not having the mental capacity, the space to make those connections and to see the Lord moving. I think that's a big testament to your spiritual disciplines and communing with the Lord on a regular basis. It's a wonderful, wonderful thing. So. All right, David, I. I love your listener of the call to mastery. You know, I like to ask the same three questions to wrap up every conversation. First one, which books do you tend to. To recommend the most to others?

Yeah, so you already brought it up. Essentialism. I mean, that had such a big impact, like a tangible impact on the business and just how to think about. I think it's just the right way to think about energy and effort. And so I've been recommending that one nonstop. So that has been paid forward big time. And so thank you for sending that to me. And the impact that had was huge.

Absolutely.

My pleasure. Hey, listen, this is good. Nashville one has been recommended recently. Book came out and I sent it to a few people. So that's been. The timing's good there. Great book. But I'd say essentialism, if we're really talking about essentialism, I'm not focused on many other books right now to send to people.

There you go. That's so good. No, that's good advice. And for those of you listening, if you haven't read Essentialism, please read that before you read Master of One. I've said Greg, the author of essentialism, Greg McEwen, was generous enough to endorse Master of One. And I tell people all the time, I'm like, it's other than the Bible. That book influenced Master of One more than any other. All right, David, very interested to hear your answer to this next question because I know you know a lot of very influential people in business on Wall Street. What one person? I'll let you off the hook. You can name multiple people if you would like. But who would you most like to hear talk about how their faith influences their work?

Four people actually come to mind.

I love it. There we go.

Keep it going to fill your pipeline here. You ready?

Yeah, yeah. Fill up the pipeline.

So, in no particular order, Greg Brennaman. So Greg turned around Burger King, turned around Continental Airlines, and he just has a really interesting perspective on what it means to be a Christian in the marketplace. I think it's a. It's a unique perspective. That would be. I mean, he's a great guy. That would be a great one, Scott.

So wasn't Greg in the Continental Story? Wasn't that a part of a Jim Collins book?

It might have been.

I think. I think it was, like, great by choice or one of them. I may. I may be totally making this up and a listener can correct me, but I'm pretty sure he was in that sor. Anyways, sorry, continue.

I wouldn't be surprised. I mean, he is. He is impressive in so many ways. Yeah, but, but, but loves the Lord first and foremost, and that influences the work he does. Scott Stevenson is number two. So I've served with Scott as an elder at my church in New York City for six years. I've become great friends with him. He's the CEO of Varusk, so 8,000 employees. They are S&P 500 Rocket IT. He was just recently number 16 on Forbes list of most innovative CEOs.

Wow.

Number one was. Was like Elon Musk. Number two is Jeff Bezos. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is a guy, though, who more than maybe anyone I know, walks the walk. And how so?

How so?

He just. He loves people. He loves people. There is. He is so generous with his time. He is so generous with his influence with his capital. He's just a great guy.

All right, great. I'm putting Scott on the list.

Cheryl Batchelder, Just a great. So she turned around Popeyes Louisiana. Kitchen. And I think it was interim CEO. She might be the CEO of Pier 1 right now. Or if she's not, she's on the board. She has a great perspective on excellence, what it means, why it matters.

Yeah, I've heard Sheryl speak before. She's terrific.

Yeah, Cheryl's great. Tom Cole runs Citibank's leveraged finance group. This is another guy walks the walk. Great guy. But I think what's interesting, being in the finance world is how do you express Christ's love as the head of one of Citibank's arms to a group that's. I mean, money is the. Is the collateral, if not the thing everyone's pursuing above all else?

Yeah. That's interesting.

I'm gonna give you one last random one. It just came out of my mind.

Yeah. Yeah.

So Rob Pelinka, who is the GM of the Lakers.

Interesting.

My best man at my wedding was in a small group with him and his now wife. I don't know. I'm pretty sure Rob is still. It is the core, core thing to him. I know his wife, who's a pediatrician, is like, I am serving as God's. God's hands and feet to the children that I care for. But Rob would be pretty interesting.

That'd be fascinating. So would the. So would his wife as a pediatrician. I think that'd be a terrific episode.

I went a little overboard, but there's the list.

Yeah. Thank you for filling the pipeline. I appreciate it. By the way, if you're listening to the show and you have suggestions, I'm always open to them. Right. So shoot me an email. I'm very easy to find. Jordanordanrayner.com who do you want to hear? I'm always curious, by the way, I'm really curious in finding names that are not world famous. So we say a lot in the call to mastery. World class doesn't necessarily mean world famous. I'm on the lookout for people doing blue collar work that are really masterful at their craft to come and talk on the call to mastery by virtue of my network. I don't know a lot of those people, but I want to get to know a lot of those people. So if you know them, send them my way, please. All right, David, last question. One piece of advice to leave somebody in our audience who's pursuing mastery of the art of entrepreneurship. What would you tell them?

Part answer. I'd say, number one, be patient. I have found that things take longer and are harder when you start an endeavor, a project. When you're building something. And I think what's interesting here, I think God shows this to us as he gives us the story of some of the pillars of the Old Testament. I mean, Abraham, it took 25 years after he was promised the son until that promise was fulfilled. Joseph had 17 years of adversary before he would fulfill God's plan for his life. Moses was 40 years in the desert. And I just think about that this is someone who had access to everything as an adopted son of Pharaoh, and then he's 40 years in the desert. It's like we get to read these stories in a matter of minutes, but 40 years is not minutes. Well, it is to God, but to us it's not. Not to us. So I think there's just example. I mean, David's on the run from Saul, et cetera. So. So patience is a big part of it. We all. I think, I know I would prefer if it happens right away. God cares about our heart and there is a process. So I think that's helpful. And I'd say the second part is just extending grace to ourselves. I know I can be really hard on myself and I just had a friend along the way who really just said, listen, God has covered all like extend yourself grace. And that when I really took hold of that, it just was so helpful in so many ways. And so work is toil sometimes, it's hard sometimes. And there's maybe one day a month I just don't have my A game. And you know what, that's okay. I'm going to just get back on the saddle the next day. And I kind of come to expect it now. It's fine. Whereas I might beat myself up for a week about, oh, I wasn't productive.

But extending grace to ourselves, man, I struggle with that. I needed that word today. But I do believe it's essential to extend grace to yourself before you're effectively able to do it to others. So that's a great thing to be able to cultivate. Hey, David, I just want to commend you for building a terrific company, for the work you're doing to make all things new, for serving your neighbor as yourself. Well, through these best in class products, through saving the lives of thousands of children. I mean, that in and of itself makes everything you're doing, every trial, every valley, worth it. And on a personal note, note, I just want to thank you for consistently being one of my biggest cheerleaders and just encourage you're one of the most encouraging people in my life. You guys, David, I don't know. I could probably expect an email a week from David telling me that he's praying for me or words of encouragement. You're just a tremendous friend. Hey, if you want to be healthier while also saving the lives of malnourished children, David's team can help. Visit previnex.com that's P R E V I N E X David, thanks for being with me today.

Thanks so much, Jordan. Appreciate all that you do as well. Thanks so much.

I love David. I loved hearing those details of his story that I hadn't even heard before, even though he and I have talked a number of times. So hey, I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you're enjoying the Call to Mastery, do me a favor. Subscribe to the show so you never miss an episode in the future. And if you're already subscribed, take 30 seconds to go. Leave a review of the this podcast. Thank you so much for listening to the Call to Mastery. I'll see you next week.