Diane Latiker (Founder of Kids Off the Block)

The episode you're about to listen to was released back when the Mere Christians podcast was called the Call to Mastery. Now, if you love Mere Christians, you're still going to love these older episodes because the majority of each conversation focuses on how the gospel influences the work of our guests. With that disclaimer out of the way, please enjoy the episode. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Call to Mastery. I'm Jordan Raynor. This is a podcast for Christians who want to do their most exceptional work for the glory of God and the good of others. Every week I'm bringing you a conversation with a Christian who's pursuing world class mastery of their vocation. We're talking about their path to mastery, their daily habits and routines, and how the gospel influences their work. Today's guest is Diane Latiker. She's the founder of Kids off the Block, an organization that's provided a safe place and shelter and food for more than 3,000 teenagers in Chicago's most violent neighborhood. She's been named one of CNN's top 10 heroes of the year. She. She's received the BET Shine a Light Award. She's an accidental entrepreneur who by the grace of God has developed into an incredible leader at a later age in life, leading this organization to tremendous impact. Diane and I sat down and discussed what standing in between an AK47 and 50 kids will teach you about leadership. We talked about how the recent pandemic has forced leaders to reframe their missions and at a higher level. And how seemingly unsolvable problems can bring us to greater levels of both hustle and trust in the Lord. I think you guys are going to love this conversation with my new friend, Diane Latiker. Diane, it's a privilege to have you here today. How are you doing this morning?

I'm doing great. How are you doing?

I'm wonderful. Hey, so for our listeners who don't know, tell us, what does kids off the block do?

So kids off the block helps young people that are in gangs to get out. We help homeless kids and we help kids to get back in school. And basically we offer them a safe place in our community.

Yeah, you're meeting the very material needs of these kids in Chicago. And what part of Chicago are you guys in?

We're in the. On the far south side called Rose.

Okay. Okay, great. So how did this all get started? I mean, I've read bits and pieces of the story, but I'd love to hear in your own words, how kids off the block got off the ground.

So my husband and I have Eight kids of our own. We have four boys and four girls. So I had one at home, aisha. She was 13 years old, and I just wanted to make sure that she graduated high school and went to college because we thought we'd be free after she left so we could go fishing. I hung out with her and her nine friends, boys and girls, 13 to 15 years old. And I took them swimming and skating and fishing, of course. And my mom saw it, and my mom said, diane, you should do something with those kids. They like and respect you. And in my mind, I'm going, no, I'm going to be free. I don't want to do that. But I literally prayed about it, like, for three days, because I was fighting it, you know, I was just fighting, and I didn't want to do it. And so on the third day, I was standing in my living room window, and Aisha and her friends were out in the front, and they were just being teenagers, talking loud, going up and down the block. And the Lord just pushed me out the door, I say, and I went. I didn't know what I was going to say to him, but I called him over to me, and the first thing came out of my mouth was, what do you guys want to do when you grow up? And they all started jumping up and down and, oh, man, it was amazing. They were like little kids. They were, I want to be a doctor. I want to be a singer. Now I want to be a rapper. No, I want to be a nurse. And I said, well, would you guys be interested in coming into the living room so we can talk? I didn't have no idea what I was going to do, tell you the truth.

Sure.

And so they came in the living room. They. Now, I knew these kids. They were Aisha's friends for a long time, so I thought I knew them. But when they came in my living room and sat down, I actually didn't know them at all. They started telling me about the gangs trying to recruit the boys and how they were failing in school. And I'm saying in my mind, oh, Lord, what have I done? I don't know how to help these kids. And so I just listened. And when I got through listening, I said, well, at least I can help them with homework. My husband had this big old giant TV back then that he watched every day come home from work getting his Lazy Boy. And I looked at that tv, because the only way I could help, I had to have some computers back then to help them with homework. I said I could do that. Not that I'm a scholar or got degrees, but at least I could do that. So I begged him for two weeks, could I sell that big giant tv? And he said, oh, leave my TV alone. Two weeks. One day went to work and I sold the TV. I got $600, and I bought 10 used computers and three printers. And that's how I started helping them with homework. And the next thing I know, there were kids knocking at my door that I hadn't seen before. And they were like, you, Ms. Diane? And I'm like, yeah. And they like, we need help. And one little boy said, they said you could help me. And I said, who said that? Me. It was like. And I mean, he wanted to. He was 13 years old. And he told me he wanted to change his life. And I told him, you haven't had any life. You're still a kid, right? He said, Ms. Diane, no, I've been robbing and I've been hurting people. And he came into my house. Next thing I know, there's 75 kids in our apartment, day and night, sleeping on the floor. I mean, just. We're just helping kids everywhere. And at 46 years old, I realized I had found my passion. And it was. I mean, it was just mind blowing. And I knew it had to come from God because Diane Latiker did not want to do this. And it had to be a higher power that said, okay, you're going to do this and you're going to do it with love. Because I fell in love with all those young people, and all I wanted to do was help them. And I quit my job, and my husband threatened to divorce me a couple of times. He's like, are you crazy? We can barely take care of ourselves. And I was crazy. I was crazy in this mission to help these kids. And I was so naive. I thought everybody wanted to help them, join. And everywhere I went, I was at every meeting. Every time I heard of a meeting, I was there to tell them about these kids and how they needed help. And a lot of people didn't want to help them because they thought they would throw away kids. And I would just cry to God and I would just pray. And that's when I found out about so much violence was in my community. I mean, these kids could barely go to school. And so I just prayed. I just kept praying. And God just said, keep it going. Just don't stop. No matter what happens, don't stop.

Well, and the other thing I like about. I love about your story, I think it's Something that I hear a lot today, years later, kids off the block. You guys have served more than 3,000 kids in South Chicago. But you didn't start by saying, we're going to build this massive organization that's going to serve 3,000 kids. It was a series of very, very little steps of obedience, right? Literally a step off your front porch, say, hey, kids, what do you want to be when you grow up? Then the little step of, hey, come inside, let's have a conversation. And you know, I've been rereading the Gospels lately, just trying to really study these biographies of the life of Christ. And even there, you rarely see Jesus showing people the full path of what he's calling them to you. You see him giving them little bite sized next steps, right? He didn't tell the disciples, hey, come, follow me. And in three years I'm gonna die. And a few years you're going to. He just said, follow me. Drop the nets. Right? It was one step. Can you, can you talk a little bit about that as an encouragement to some of our listeners who may be in fear of the big vision of what this thing that they have in their hearts that God has placed in their hearts might be. Can you give them some encouragement to just follow the Lord and the little things?

Yeah, because see, that's, that's exactly what happened to me. He guided me in little pieces like I had no idea it would turn into what it did. Right. So each day I would get so excited and I knew that I was definitely from the Lord, I would get so excited about the next day because what I could do to help those kids, not anything major, no big money, no big building to bring them to, I just had what I had. And that's what the Lord put on my heart. Just do it where you are, with what you have, and I will help you the rest of the way. And every day I would wake up excited because I knew God was with me and I knew it was his plan. It wasn't mine.

Right.

It was his. He was leading the way. And each day another kid would come, and I knew that kid, if they were coming to a house, to a lady and a man, they didn't even know to trust them with their life.

Right, right.

You know, that's not us doing that. And so each day the Lord would drop something like, it wouldn't be a big sign. I would say, lord, send me a sign. He wouldn't send me a sign like that. It would just be something to keep me more motivated and going. And another thing, too. My faith. He was testing my faith and making it so strong till nothing could take me away from what I was doing. I mean, really, I literally, when I prayed, I knew that God was guiding me in my faith because I had faith. I always believed in God. But when I tell you my Faith went up 10 notches doing this work because I knew Dianica couldn't do these things in faith.

Right. You were out of your. You were out of your own strength, right? That's exactly right. Here's another thing. Here's another thing I really like about your story. You know, you mentioned this question that you asked these kids that really started this whole thing, like, what do you want to be when you grow up? And I hear this question a lot from young people. What should I be when I grow up? And something about your story, even at the age of 46, I think offers a lot of wisdom. Right. You listen to your mother, and it's not the fact that it was your mother that I think is interesting. You listened to the advice of another Christ follower saying, hey, there's something going on here that I think you can be gifted at to meet this need in the world. And, yeah, I wrote about in one of my. One of my most recent books that if we believe our work is service to others, is primarily service to the world, then we should be paying attention not to what we're really passionate, excited about, but to what others are telling us. Hey, Jordan. Hey, Diane. I think you could be really good at this. Like, follow this direction. Right.

I believe the Lord came through my mother to give me that message. I really do. Yeah.

It's working through the spirit, right?

That's right.

Through another Christ. So I'm really curious. Your title is founder of this organization that's impacted thousands of lives. I'm really curious if you consider yourself an entrepreneur.

I have not. And I've been called that before. And I think my issue is putting it with when entrepreneur. That sounds for profit.

Right.

And I am a servant. And I tell everybody this. I am a servant, and I could not do this if I were not a servant. Because when you're serving others, there's a level of respect and empathy you have to have for the people you're serving. You're there to serve them. You're there. Like, I often think about how the Lord watch people's feet. The Lord. And if I can just do 110 of that, humble myself and realize these are my fellow human beings and I've got to love them and I cannot judge and that's what I did with those young people, and I still do today. Yeah, they come to me as they are. I don't. They don't have to put on anything to be for me to help them. I'm.

Here's their serve.

Yeah.

I think you're an entrepreneur. So. So here's why. Here's. Here's why, you know, and my experience comes from the for profit space as a founder. But at the end of the day, entrepreneurship, in my opinion, is simply about taking risks to create something new that serves others exceptionally well. Right. At the end of the day, the best entrepreneurs, for profit or nonprofit, are those that serve best. If you're in the for profit sector, you have to serve customers exceptionally well in order for them to come back or refer their friends. If you're in the number, if you're in your space, more kids wouldn't keep showing up to the house if you weren't serving them and meeting their needs well. So I think you're an incredibly talented entrepreneur, whether or not you label yourself as that or not. I think you are. And I think there's a lot of wisdom. I know we have a lot of entrepreneurs, not exclusively, but a lot of entrepreneurs listening who can glean a lot of wisdom from this serve first mindset. I'm really curious though, when you started to see the lives of these kids being transformed early on, Right. How practically did you guys get from this small organization with a few dozen kids that's serving more than 3,000 kids in south side of Chicago? And part of that is time. Right. But what were some of the systems and stuff that you had to put in place to really be able to serve at that scale?

Well, first of all, we had to listen to what they needed. It wasn't about what we wanted them to need or what what we told them they needed. We had to listen.

Yeah.

What did they need? Well, the first thing they needed was they needed help in school, they needed help in their community. That was the second thing, because when kids come out into their communities, there has to be some places that are safe for them that they feel can help them. Cause that's community. That's what it is.

Yeah.

And the third thing was to make sure that when you did help them, that the whole family was involved. You can't help the child without the family, no matter how that family is. That child loves their family, no matter what we might think of their family. And I wanted to make sure they knew that we were a support system for that family trying to help Their child. So we had to learn that though, because like I said, I was naive. I had no idea about 501C3EIN number, all that stuff. And probably if I knew all this stuff that I had to do, I probably would have. So I'm glad the Lord took me in backwards. He took me in with a heart and a will just to help. But we had to change. We had to start realizing what their needs were and how we could help them accomplish that. And say a kid had dropped out of school. Well, we had to get involved with their family, we had to get involved with the school. We had to make sure when they came to our program that they were encouraged by school, that they got help with tutors, that they got mentored, that maybe they had a hole in their shoe. And this stuff really happened. Kid had a hole in his shoe so he wouldn't go to school because he was embarrassed. So we pulled together our little funds and went and bought them some decent shoes and then we took him back and forth to school. Then we had some kids who couldn't get to school because of the gang lines, so we had to take them back and forth to school. So it was those things that helped them to be or to realize that they could be successful if they could overcome those things. And we just wanted to be a helpmate in helping them to accomplish that.

You bring up an interesting point though, with wanting to be seen as an ally of the family unit, right. Not as trying to replace them. And I think, I think that's often true in, in business, sometimes your customer, you know, in your case the kid, not a customer, but the person you're ultimately serving is the quote unquote decision maker. But there are other people to factor into that decision. So I think a lot about this in terms of hiring, right? So if I'm recruiting an employee to my team, I run fast growing companies, that person is, usually has a pretty big appetite for risk. I'm very cognizant of the fact that I'm also recruiting the spouse of that person who's usually far more risk averse. Right. So I think a lot about recruiting that secondary person in order to engage that primary person that I want in my organization. So for you, that was the family unit, right? Like making sure that they felt like you weren't trying to replace or, or circumvent them. So how did you, how did you guys do that? How do you guys do that? So the kids come to you wanting help. How do you keep that family kind of that secondary Customer, if you will, Engaged.

Well, I learned the hard way. So what? We're 80% male. So the boys would come, and the next thing I know, their mothers are taking them out of the program. And this was in the beginning, and I didn't understand why. What was I doing wrong? I'm thinking, you know, and come to find out they were going home saying, Ms. Diane said. And Ms. Diane told us. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. Don't do that. I'm just here for support. So I had to. When I found out that was going on, I started calling their families and saying, I'm here to support you. I'm not here when I tell the boys something for their betterment. But the ultimate decision maker is you, not me. And they let them come back. I had to learn that the hard way. And I had to figure out how to make sure that I'm a side ally and that I coincide that with making sure I involve the family in whatever I'm telling them or helping them with.

Yeah, but this goes back to your point about being a good listener. Right. Great entrepreneurs are great servers. And in order to be a great server, you must first and foremost be a great listener and really understand. Going back to your story, you asked these kids, hey, what do you want to be when you grow up? You wanted to help them, you know, kind of get on the right path of their lives. But at the end of the day, what they really needed was help with homework. And you wouldn't have seen that had you not asked the question and been. Yeah, it would have been very easy for you to just create a career counseling program. But you help them with their homework first. I love it. So, Diane, over the past few months, the news has been dominated BY really only two stories. So this COVID 19 pandemic and the Black Lives Matter movement, which has gained considerable momentum in the wake of the death of George Floyd. So, as the leader of this organization of kids off the block, I'm curious how, if at all, you've pivoted the organization. And in wake of these massive cultural events, like, what has changed in the organization over the last three or four months?

Well, because of COVID we couldn't physically see the kids anymore.

Sure.

So my husband and I were at risk. Anyway, we're scared anyway. So we're sitting here, and I'm like, lord, okay, what can we do to help? Because by now, this is. This is in us. You know, my faith is like, you can't just sit here if you believe God you're going to be scared anyway. Just get out there. So we decided to start feeding kids who were out of school because the state shut down, so the schools were closed. So we started. We put a little tent across the street on a vacant lot, and we started cooking hamburgers and hot dogs and stuff for the kids who couldn't make it to the school, and they wanted to eat. Then the governor came back again and said, everybody stay home. The mayor said it, too. So we had to close that down. We are back in the house again, and my husband and I are talking, and I just started praying. I'm like, lord, we can't do anything here. And I saw that van that we got this. I call it a raggedy van because it is. But it normally. It transports kids, and it can't do that. So we decided. I'm like. Like, let's take the van and go help people. You know, we just. Just ride the city because everybody wasn't inside. Homeless people had nowhere to go. People in shelters needed help. So we put 100 masks in the van. We put some food that we had fixed in the van, and we had these little bottles of sanitizer. And so we just started riding the city, passing it out to people who we thought needed it. And the next thing I know, we're passing out 600 meals, thousands of masks. People are donating the stuff. And it just. I mean, we're all over Chicago, every North side, south side, east side, we're just passing out stuff. And when I tell you how grateful those people were that we were there when they saw that van, that they would rush that van to get those much needed pps, it was amazing. And I knew that was God. I knew that was his idea, because you could tell. You could tell.

I think the pandemic has forced a lot of entrepreneurs and leaders to rethink their mission at a higher level. Right? So, yes, pre. Pre pandemic, you would have said, oh, yeah, we serve. We serve youth in south side Chicago. Right? But then in the wake of the pandemic, when you're unable to do that, I think it forces you to really think about, okay, like, what are we really all about the highest level? And it's about serving material needs, right? And you're like, okay, it's not about youth. It's not about Southside Chicago. We just got to go all over the city and help people.

That's right. It's about serving, period. No matter where it takes you. It's about serving. It's about serving others. Especially in their time of need and quiet as is kept. It's in your time of need too, because you need to do something, you need to serve, you need to help because it helps you to talk about.

Okay, talk about that a little bit more. How old are you, if you don't mind me asking.

Three years old.

You're at risk. Yes. You mentioned this a few minutes ago. You and your husband are high.

Yes, we are.

And you're going out in the community.

Yes.

And meeting people.

Yes.

Touching people and lots of it. And putting yourself in harm's way. Talk about how the Lord has used that to serve you and your needs.

So we were like that with the violence. Right. We were putting ourselves at risk. I've been in between two 45s, literally between two gangs standing in the middle of the guns. AK47 was pulled on me with 50 something kids behind me. It's the same thing with violence. You put your life on the line and that's how strong is your faith. How much do you believe God? So serving. When we went out there on them streets, I knew we were at risk and I knew we were scared. I knew we were scared. But when we were out there, it didn't matter. When you saw the people who needed, they didn't know us from John, but what they did know was that we were trying to help them and the look on their faces and bless you all. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for coming. Oh, and I knew that God had directed this because he put it on so many other people heart to donate supplies so we could help all these people. I knew he had did it. And me, I woke up, I started feeling excited again and not depressed in the pandemic. I was actually excited in this pandemic because I knew the next I would stay up late at night making cup sanitizers to make sure we had hundreds to pass out the next day. Because it was just coming from God. It was coming from him.

It's a good example of this tension between grit and. And grace. Right. So you know, these supplies showed up at your door by the grace of God. By the grace of God and the grace of your, of your neighbors. But it's also a result of the grit that the Lord has given you and the discipline to be. Because you, you have earned a reputation in the community as people who just get stuff done. Right.

Yeah.

I mean that had to play a fact.

Yeah.

In this for sure. So I got to go back to the standing in between a gun and 50 kids for a Minute I'm still flabbergasted by this. So in those moments, you, you know what's right to do, you know, it's right to be in the middle of this. It's necessary in some instances to stop violence. But you don't know that you're not going to get blown to pieces. Right. And so how in that moment do you say, you know what? Regardless of what happens, blessed be the name of the Lord, Whether it's a literal gun or a metaphorical one, facing the organization being shut down or whatever, how does the gospel give you the resources to say, blessed be the name of the Lord?

I think the Gospel gives me more of the Word. I think my faith rests on the Word. Knowing that the words that I read where the Lord says things like, I'm with you. Not that I'm human, I'm flesh, but that spirit that rides with you. After it was over, I was like, diane, are you crazy? What did you do? But at that moment, I did not think about that. I thought about, I have 50 kids behind me, and if one of those kids is hurt, I couldn't live with myself. So there was no time to go. Should I, Should I not? No. I was riding on faith. Everything that I did. Those guns, I saw them, but I had my hands up as I'm walking towards these three young men, and I saw that big gun. But I also knew that I was on faith.

Romans 8:28. God works for the good of those who love him or are called according to his purpose. Might not have been your life being saved. I think sometimes we take that verse out of context and say, well, he's working everything for my good, so I'm not going to get shot. It's like, no, there's real danger. There's a gun.

Real danger.

Yeah, but even if I get shot, he's going to work that for his glory and the good of his purposes in the world. I talk about this a lot with entrepreneurs. As Christ following redemptive entrepreneurs, we should be the boldest risk takers in the world. At the end of the day, even if we lose our life, the Lord's purpose will prevail. Right? That, that is, that gives peace.

Because it has. Yeah, it has. There's so many in the Bible. There's so many examples of what God did, what he did for the glory. Right? For. And what came out of it. What's that, what's that quote in the Bible? You meant it for evil, but God, God made it for good. So I, I go to That a lot because I have to, I have to, I have to know in my heart that it's not Diane Latiker. And I tell, I tell a lot of people this, that interview me. It's not Diane Latiker. It's a spirit, it's a, it's a higher power. It's God that pushes me and makes me believe that it's all for the good. And it's not for Diane Latiker's good per se, is for his good.

Yeah. Amen. Amen. Well said. So Diane, I could hear our listeners mulling this conversation over in their heads. You've already convinced them that you are a world class leader. And one thing that we love to pick the brains of world class leaders on is just daily habits and routines, things that make them tick, kind of what their day looks like. So I'm really curious, a typical day for you, maybe pre pandemic, since the pandemic's changed everything, changed it. What does a typical day look like from the moment you wake up to the moment you go to bed?

So when I wake up, aside from prayer, that's the first thing out of my mouth is prayer and thanks for another day. And then I get up, I get on my computer and finish whatever I left the night before. Once I do that, then I make my daily calls to make sure that the people that I'm supposed to be working with or meeting with that day, all that's taken care of. Normally during school time, I have up until 3pm to take care of all the business of KOB. Fill out paperwork, answer emails, make phone calls. After 3 o', clock, the kids start coming. Some get out of school at 3:30, some get out at 3:45. So they're coming. Make sure that I have people in place, volunteers, tutors, mentors, the kids get what they need. I have group sessions on some days where all the kids can sit together and talk about the issues. No judgment, just sit and we listen. Because that's huge for us. What's going on with them? What do they need? Once that done, maybe on another day we do arts. On another day we'll do music. During the summer, it's all sports. It's all sports. We do a back to school giveaway during the summer. We do summer in the streets where I partner with eight other organizations to make sure. Because they all suffer with youth violence as well in their communities. So we partner to do events on the same day at the same time. So I'll be working on that. So I'm working on stuff all year. Thanksgiving, we feed hundreds of young people and their families. The most we've had is 800 in a tent on the lot across the street.

Wow.

For Christmas, we do a Christmas toy giveaway. So I'm working on that with other people all year for 250 families. So it's. And it's always something going on with kids off the block. Either a young person is graduating from high school or elementary school and we're working on that for them, or we're working with their family because the family has gotten in trouble. The lights are going to be cut off. The boy needs a cold because he's wearing two or three hoodies. It's always something.

So these kids, these kids start showing up at 3 o'.

Clock.

How late are they staying? I mean, some of them are spending the night, right?

Yeah. If they have to. Homeless kids. Yes. They have to. They have nowhere to go. We have to find them somewhere to go or either get them back home. You know, if they ran away from home, then definitely. We partner with other organizations who have counselors who can help out in that area. Because we do everything.

Sure. We knew. And you as the leader can't do everything either. I'm curious, how many, how many volunteers, mentors do you have engaged on kids off the block?

At those that are ready dial. Like I can just pick up on 50.

Wow.

But we have hundreds. We have been calling different areas.

That's unbelievable. All right, so you've recruited a lot of people to this cause to volunteer their time. Yeah. I'm curious, what's the biggest lesson you've learned about selling the vision to people to where they're willing to give up their time like that?

The biggest lesson I've learned is it's not about me. It's about we. It's about we. The volunteers have to feel like they're invested. The donors have to feel like they're invested. It's about us helping these kids and their families. It's not about Diane Latacar, although I'm the face. What. What is that? No man is an island. We have to involve each other at the human level. I want the donors and the volunteers to see the kids in the same way that I do when we actually interview a volunteer. The first thing, they have to love kids.

Yeah.

Bottom line. Bottom line. No matter what degrees they have, it doesn't matter. You have to love the children.

Yeah. So you mentioned, you mentioned your faith a few times. Obviously, we only interview Christ following masters of their craft. I'M really curious for you to talk about. I think this is a pretty obvious. But I'd love to hear it in your own words. How does your faith influence your ambition for the organization? I mean, you're 63. It'd be very easy for you to say, you know what? I've been at this for 15 years. I'm going to call it a day. What keeps you going outside the kids?

What.

What in scripture do you see pushing you to keep going every day?

I believe God. Bottom line, there's no big to do about it. There's no big signs. I just believe God and I believe that it's his plan. And wherever it takes me, I'm willing to go. Because so far he's blessed me to be able to help countless young people. And there's nothing more than that. I mean, to help somebody else and to see that come to fruition. I believe him. He's made me a believer as far as what he'll give someone like me, I'm not perfect. I got all kind of issues and I fought it. And he made me a believer that I can make a difference. And it keeps me motivated and inspired. And the young people, all the young people, they inspire me so much. They have so much power. They just don't realize it.

So, Dan, I love that you guys are focused on meeting these very material needs of these kids, right? Providing shelter and safety. Those things in and of themselves are good and God honoring. But I am curious, has your work opened up doors to have spiritual conversations with these kids? And if so, can you share one of those stories with us?

Yes. My mom is a minister, so the kids, because of the violence. Let me make sure I make that clear. A lot of the kids was asking her to pray for them. Definitely when a kid would come to me and my mom would know about it in private and tell me about what's happening. Like his house got shot up, or a kid at school pulled a gun on him or something and he needed prayer and he needed to know that the Lord was protecting him or he needed sanctuary. So my mom and I would get together and we would pray for him and we would talk to him about the goodness of the Lord and how he has to remember that God loves him and that the only way he can handle this is not to retaliate. I think the spiritual aspect came in because we did not want those kids to go retaliate. We wanted them to feel like they were protected by the love of God and more so that my mom put oil on their foreheads and prayed for them. And when she did that, they felt like they were protected. So we were able to have quite a few conversations with these kids and not pressure them. I want to make that clear too. But to let them know that we believe that God is protecting them.

Yeah. And whether or not you have those opportunities, I think it's great. If we have opportunities to share the gospel. Wonderful. But even if we don't, loving and serving these kids is good. And God honor and following the way of Jesus. Right. And modeling Christlike behavior to those in our community. So I mentioned George Floyd before. I think a lot of Christians, whether they're at the top of their organization as entrepreneurs or at the very bottom, just, you know, working as a marketing manager at a Fortune 500 company. I think we're all asking ourselves, especially white Christians, how. How we can be using our positions within our workplaces to help solve some of these problems at work. I know that's a very broad question, but I'm curious if you have any thoughts to share on that topic.

People have to first believe that there is a problem.

Yeah.

And there is. There's a huge problem, undoubtedly. Yes, yes. But as Christians, we also have to believe that God will. Will help us not to solve it, but to be a part of solving it. In order for, for your faith to come in on something like that, you have to believe that God would do what. And there's examples in the Bible, but you have to believe that God would present this to you in a way where you say, okay, Lord, what can I do? And then be able to follow that. Whatever he gives you to help. In the George Floyd thing, what happened to him and the outrage afterwards, what do you say to yourself as a Christian? You say, what can I do? Even me, and I'm a black woman. I said, what can I do? And I think as Christians, we need to do more of that. We need to seek God in situations where we feel is overwhelming, out of control or I don't understand.

Yeah, I think too, I've been thinking a lot about this. You know, scripture tells us that ultimately Christ is going to finish the work. Right. Revelation. We see this of bringing heaven to earth, but in the meantime, he works through us. So there's this tension between grit and grace, trusting and hustling that like, yes, right now God is working through his people to redeem every square inch of creation. But ultimately we're not going to finish the work. Ultimately, he's going to get the glory because only he can finish it. But that doesn't let us off the hook. We got to do the work today.

No, we got to do the work. We got. We've got. He did the work. He was here for 33 years. What did he do?

He worked. Yeah. Amen. Amen. Well said. Very well said. So, Diane, three questions I love to end every conversation with. First, I'm curious which books you recommend or give away the most to others? Maybe some of your kids are there. Are there particular books that you're always recommending or giving away?

There's only one book I give away. I buy little small Bibles. I love.

I love it. That's wonderful.

In their pockets.

That's good. Yeah. Pocket sized Bibles is wonderful. I'm curious who you would most like to hear maybe on this podcast, talk about how the Christian faith influences the work they do Monday through Friday.

Oprah.

That's a great answer.

I really would. I really. I've watched a lot of her old classes.

Yeah.

But I'd love for her to hear. I'd love to hear that spiritual thing that propels her.

Yeah, that's a great. That's, that's one of my favorite answers so far to that question. That's a great. That's a great answer. All right, last question. Diane, you're talking to a lot of people who are leaders and entrepreneurs like yourself. What one piece of advice would you give these people who are trying to build organizations that do the Lord's will in the world?

Step out of your own way. Let him lead. Seriously, let. Let him lead. And he's there if it's right. If he gave it to you, believe me, he's going to open those doors so you can walk through. And it might not be easy. It might not be easy. And you probably will run into everything God didn't say we weren't going to suffer trying to serve.

Amen. The Christian life wasn't meant to be easy. Right.

It's harder. Right?

That's right. But in the words of John F. Kennedy, we do not do these things because they are easy. We do them precisely because they are hard. Because there's work that needs to be.

Done in this world.

Hey, Dan, I just want to commend you for the incredible redemptive work you do every single day. Thank you for being the hands and feet of Christ, loving your neighbors in Chicago as yourself, even when you're putting your own self in harm's way. And thank you for your commitment to operating your ministry with excellence. Hey, guys, if you want to read more about Diane's incredible story. Her book, Kids off the Block will be out by the time this podcast episode airs, so go pick up a copy. It's published by Baker Books, who published my first book called the Great. We were just talking about how much we love Baker, so go pick up a copy right now. Hey, Diane, thank you again so much for being with us today.

Jordan, thank you so much for inviting me on.

I love Diane. I can't wait to meet her in person someday. I hope you guys enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. Hey, if you are enjoying the Call to Mastery, make sure you subscribe so you never miss an episode in the future. And if you're already subscribed, you know exactly what I'm going to ask you to do. Take 30 seconds and please go leave a review of the podcast so that this podcast can wind up in the the ears of more listeners like you and encourage more people like yourself. Hey, thank you so much for listening. I'll see you guys next week.