Horst Schulze (Co-founder of The Ritz-Carlton Hotel Company)

The episode you're about to listen to was released back when the Mere Christians podcast was called the Call to Mastery. Now, if you love Mere Christians, you're still going to love these older episodes because the majority of each conversation focuses on how the gospel influences the work of our guests. With that disclaimer out of the way, please enjoy the episode. Hey everybody, welcome to the Call to Mastery. I'm Jordan Raynor. This is a podcast for Christians who want to do their most exceptional work for the glory of God and the good of others. Each week I'm hosting a conversation with a Christian who's pursuing world class mastery of their craft, of their vocation. We're talking about their path to mastery, their daily habits and routines, and how their faith influences their work. Today I am beyond excited to share a conversation I recently had with Horst Schultze, the co founder of the Ritz Carlton Hotel Company. If you love travel, if you love great hotels, you know that brand undoubtedly. Back in 2002, Horst sold the Ritz Carlton to Marriott and then co founded the Capella Hotel Group which has built some of the world's most fantastic hotels. Most recently, Horst published a book called Excellence Wins, which is a master guide to entrepreneurship and leadership. I devoured the book. In two days, Horst and I sat down to talk about the book. Talk about how he thinks about loving every employee as himself and why he believes Christians ought to have the highest standards for excellence in their work. We also talked about what it's like to live in a hotel that you're running. And for my fellow children of the 80s and 90s, you'll appreciate that throughout this entire part of the interview all I could think about was Dunstan checks in and my childhood dream to be Jason Alexander, living in and running a hotel at the same time with a monkey on the loose. But that's neither here nor there. This is a great conversation. I think you're really going to enjoy this episode. Without further ado, here's my conversation with a truly masterful entrepreneur, Horst Schulze. Horst Schulze, thank you so much for.

Being here and delighted to be here.

I've really been looking forward to this conversation for a bunch of reasons. So first and foremost I read Excellence Wins in two days. I devoured the book. I actually read it at a Ritz Carlton property, yeah I did, in Sarasota and absolutely love the book. Have a bunch of follow up questions. Second reason why I'm interested in this conversation is as my listeners know, my last startup was actually in the travel industry. So I still serve as chairman of the board of that company, Threshold 360. So I have a particular interest in hospitality. But third, I just love great hotels. And I know you do too. So let's start there. I got a world class hotelier on the phone. I gotta ask you, what's your favorite hotel in the world? And let's start with one that you don't have an affiliation with. No Ritz hotel, no Capella property. What's your favorite hotel?

The Hookah Lodge in New Zealand?

Yeah, I've never been. Well, why is that your favorite?

It is just. You don't know why you feel good, but you feel great there. You know how that is. I mean, I always say, if you can say I like this hotel because the food was good or the rooms were nice, that means all the rest were seconds. But in this case, it's marvelous. And I can tell you I was there one night because I was there in the area in business and I said, whatever it takes. I have to bring my wife here once because it's also the most romantic feeling place. I managed to take my wife there and she agreed. It is just beautiful. It is a sensational setting, Sensational food. The individual settings. Have dinner there. By all means. If you ever go there, you have to have dinner there because they have 18 different venues to have dinner.

Wow.

Very romantic venues with fireplaces, outside, inside. It is just exceptional.

All right, I gotta go. My wife and I have been talking about New Zealand, so that's where we'll have to stay whenever we go. Okay, so what's your favorite Ritz or Capella property? And I understand this is like choosing a favorite child, so this is probably a harder question.

Well, I really would have a hard time answering that because, you know, I'm a hotel fanatic. I'm in hotel business since I'm 14 years old. Whenever I enter a hotel, nearly always, I say, oh, I would like to run this hotel for some reason. I just came back last night, in fact, from Indonesia, and I was staying in a hotel that wouldn't physically be the nicest, but I would like to run it because of the wonderful people that work there. You know, in some of the islands in Indonesia, the people are so hospitable. I said, I would love to run this hotel with these employees. What I can do with these employees. I thought, but of course I want to run another hotel. Having said that, I think maybe in a city hotel, I would lean toward the Capella in Dusseltorf, Germany. It's actually Called Breidenbacher Hof, whatever that means. But it's a Capella hotel. It is just class, it is outstanding. Just to give an idea, the top box, the intent to return is 97%.

Wow.

I mean, this is just not possible. Nearly. And even though the average stay is less than two days and nevertheless the 97% say on a scale of 1 to 10, nines and tens, I want to come back and I want to recommend you.

So I'm not surprised at all to hear you say that what gets you excited about the idea of running another hotel is the people. I mean people are really central to excellence wins and your philosophy on leadership and management and I'm sure your faith influences that. And we'll talk about that in a second. But just one follow up question to that. You sound like what gets you excited isn't so much the development of new properties, but it's actually running the hotel. Right. And being the operator.

Yeah, I'm an operator by heart. Literally grew up in the business. So I'm operated by heart. And of course, as the career moves on, I was eventually running Ritz Carlton. I started ritz Carlton Hotel Company as the operator, running it for 19 years and then started another hotel company at Capella. So I'm not running the hotel anymore, but I'm closely connected to it and I always make sure I'm closely connected to the employees as a whole.

So you mentioned you grew up in the hotel industry. This is something I didn't know before reading the book. And I just think your story is really interesting. Tell us a little bit about your story and the path that led you to this wildly successful career in the hospitality industry.

While growing up in a small village in Germany right after the war, nobody went into hotel business. There was no hotel. Nobody in the village ever went to hotel business. And it was not honorable. In fact, you went to technical shops. But I want to go to hotel business. From 11 years old, I don't know why I must have read something because I've never been to a hotel and there was none in town. So I begged my parents, found out how to support a career in the hotel business, found the best hotel in the region, which unfortunately was 100 km away at that time, very far. And they got me a job there as a busboy. Busboy meant washing dishes, cleaning shoes and so on.

So it was your first job in a hotel? You were a busboy?

That was my first job.

And how old were you there by.

The time I got there? I started when I was 14, living in a dorm room, working many hours every day. And once a week I went to hotel school. And that is a typical German career unless you go to college. So I did that. But I was lucky. I mean, I was kind of ridiculed going to work in a hotel in the Village. In fact, my grandfather was very embarrassed. And this is a low grit job. But when I got there, there was a maddo d who welcomed me and said, never come to work, to work, come to work to be excellent in what you're doing. Well, mind you, that went over my head when I was 14. Sure, what is so excellent? And cleaning ashtrays and washing many dishes and so on. But he went on telling me that. And that's kind of the fundamental of my whole career happened right there. And two years in, I went to hotel school and I was supposed to write an essay about what I now feel about the hotel business. And I went back thinking about it. I saw the melody in the room, in the dining room. As he approached the table saw, I realized for the first time. I realized also that was true always. He went to a table and the guest on that table were proud that he came to them. Now, I had been told, oh, they're very important ladies and gentlemen come to this hotel. My parents told me we could never go there. This is only for very important ladies and gentlemen. In fact, I was told that in the hotel right away. Now, wait a minute, there was a reversal. Those important ladies and gentlemen were proud that the major D came to the table. And I noticed that was true all the way around. And for the first time I realized, because he defined himself as a person excellence and he was a person of excellence. I mean, he would have never entered the room unless he looked perfect. And everything he's teaching, everything was excellent. So I wrote my essay around him and I named that SA we are ladies and gentlemen, serving ladies and gentlemen. Meaning if you're excellent, what we're doing in our service, ladies and gentlemen, we will be respected. We define ourselves as ladies and gentlemen. Now, this was a major success SA I got an A and never had one before. Literally, Literally. So it really stayed with me. And I made that the motto of Ritz Carlton when I started Ritz Carlton. We are ladies and gentlemen unless we sentence ourselves to be servants by not being good in what we are doing. But if we are excellent what we are doing, we are ladies and gentlemen. And our profession is service to ladies and gentlemen. I feel that very strong.

I love that so much. I got so many Questions about this ladies and gentlemen, serving ladies and gentlemen mantra, because you're right, there's. That level of excellence distinguishes us especially in the hospitality industry, right, as ladies and gentlemen. But there's also just a God given dignity to every human being that I would imagine, and I've obviously never operated a hotel, but I would imagine that, you know, a lot of the more entry level positions, the busboys, the valet, aren't always treated as ladies and gentlemen. Those jobs aren't always seen with the highest level of dignity. And one of the things I respect so much about Ritz Carlton and capella and your work is you've elevated every position within the hotel to give it great dignity and meaning. Right. Can you talk for a second about how, if at all, you've thought about how your Christian faith has influenced that thinking?

Well, of course it has influenced that thinking. I mean, everybody, I mean, the employee is pretty close to you. How about that? He's a neighbor. Love your neighbor as yourselves. So consequently, you make sure that you have to also make sure that the guest is satisfied. Because let's face it, what is the product in a hotel business? It's the moment my employee meets the guest. That's the product.

That's the product. That first interaction.

I don't build mattresses, I don't build anything. I only manage that interaction. Of course, we make some food and so on.

Interesting.

Yeah. But if that is true, I have to make sure that my employees are the right employees. So I make sure I select right and then invite them. And that's the issue that I really have a problem with. In general, let's face it, companies hire people to fulfill a certain function. Now, the chair on which you're sitting is fulfilling a function. But we hire human beings, we hire our brothers. So I have to make sure that I select them, right? Of course. But then I say I offer them to join a purpose, not only a function. And the purpose for us was very simple. The purpose of our business is to become respected as the finest in the world in service delivery. That was the purpose from day one. That's why we created Redskarten. To make sure and to understand that's our purpose. So I invite every employee to join me in that purpose. Mind you, when I establish that purpose, I question myself thoroughly. Is this good for the investor? Is it good for the society as a whole? Is it good for our guest? And is it good for employees? And the answer was resounding, yes in all cases. So when I hire somebody, I say, okay, join me here's our objective. Now you have an object, now you have a purpose working. And please come to working that purpose every day. And here's the motive for the company, why we have that purpose. And then I connect them all of the company to their own motives.

Yeah, I love that.

And that is the honorable thing to do with the human being. Not just giving them a job here, just fulfill this job like a machine.

In my upcoming book, Master of One, I talk a lot about how it is through this ministry of excellence, right, that we love our neighbor as ourselves. But I love how you put it in excellence. Winds of thinking about employees as neighbors. A lot of times they're our closest neighbors. And you had this one line in the book that really stuck out to me. I love how succinctly you put this. You talk about your, quote, call to value the humanness of the employee, end quote. And then you go on to describe this speech that you give at each orientation for new employees when you were operating these hotels and telling them that every single employee, whether they're the GM or the bellhop or the housekeeping staff, everybody's job is important. Every human is valued, Every employee is valued. Can you tell us how you use that speech to communicate the meaning that you see in each and every person's job?

Yeah, well, of course, I tell them all, first of all, we are not servants here. We are, ladies and gentlemen, serving ladies and gentlemen. You have to understand, I opened every Ritz Cardinal hotel. I went there for the orientation of the new employees that were hired. If that was Shanghai or Philadelphia or Germany or Osaka and doesn't matter. I opened the hotel and was there to help for 10 days training the employees. But the first meeting, of course in a room is kind of significant to every employee. They're sitting in a big room for the first day, they're starting a new job in this beautiful surrounding. And there's the president of this world known company, and that was me. So I walked in and said, my name is Horst Schulze, I'm the president of the company and CEO. I'm very important. And of course there goes kind of a shock through the room, right? I said, yeah, I'm very important as a human being, but so are you. And in fact, only a fool would differentiate in the importance of human beings. You are an important human being, period. We all are. And then I go on, and what about your job? Well, if you don't come to work the day we open the hotel or any day later, if you just don't show up and we don't wash dishes, we don't make beds, we don't check people in, we don't cook food. We have a disaster. Your job is. Is very important. And by the way, if I don't show up, nobody will even know.

Right, Right. That's exactly, exactly right. And that's the humbling part of leadership. Right.

And this is a reality. It's the reality. I want them to understand it. I want them to understand that they are important. And they are important.

Yeah, absolutely. So one of my favorite stories in the book, you talk about the opening of the first Ritz Carlton in Montego Bay, Jamaica. You talk about some of the things that other hoteliers were telling you to expect of employees coming down to Jamaica and then talk about that, and then talk about what happened the next day after you delivered that speech on day.

That was really moving moment. I made that speech, ladies and gentlemen, service, ladies and gentlemen, respect. And all the things the first day. And there are other orientation during that day going on. And then they go all home and have to come back the next morning. And the next morning I went jogging, which I did every morning around by the White Witch golf course, if anybody knows the area. And I jog back and I see people walking in very fine dresses and suits. And I wonder, my goodness, are they going to a wedding early in the morning to a funeral or whatever. And as I get closer to the hotel, I realized those are our employees entering the hotel. They talk, my comments so serious. Now, before that even happened, I talked to fellow hoteliers about opening a hotel in Jamaica. And they gave me horror stories about those employees. Nothing but steal, lie, cheat, come, don't come to work lazy. All these things that they told me. I was really worried in opening that hotel. And here are those beautiful people, those fine ladies and gentlemen, reacting to me saying, you are ladies and gentlemen, you are important. And they dressed up what they thought was according to being ladies and gentlemen. And it turned out they were just wonderful. They were just great employees. And I never understood in retrospect why that terrible experience some other hoteliers had. It still gives me nervous chills when I think about it. How wonderful those people were.

What a beautiful scene too, to see all them coming to work that way the next day.

You know, it just goes to show.

Following the gospel of Jesus Christ, following the advice of Jesus Christ in business pays off. Not only are we being obedient to Jesus call to give dignity and worth and value to every human being and love every neighbor itself, but it also Turns that it produces some pretty good results in business. Is that right, Horace?

Absolutely. I wholeheartedly do. I agree with that. My goodness. I mean, here we as Christians reading the Bible and we read very clearly this amazing word by Jesus, the number one direction, love your God and then love your neighbor as yourself. And how can I possibly ignore my employee and put him not in that category? I tell you, I have a philosophy. Anyway, I go to work for two reasons. One is to create excellence in what I'm doing. Not just fulfill a function, but create excellence. And number two is to be with my friends, all of them. Now that doesn't mean I barbecue in the office, but I have to respect them and treat them like my friend. And I enjoy seeing them. As I said, I just went to visit several hotels that I'm still connected to, Capella and some other hotels and Ayana hotels. And seeing those employees is what a heartwarming situation is. And then I see employees that started us, servers that are now managers, and there's nothing more fulfilling. That's when I feel I was successful, when I see that.

Yeah, that's great. If there was a title for this episode, I think it would have to be love your employees as yourself. So one more follow up question there and then I want to come back to your story and kind of close the gap from age 14 to today. Follow up question on the employee thread, though, loving your employees as yourself. One way you do that is simply by showing them dignity in your words, by telling them that they are ladies and gentlemen. Serving ladies and gentlemen. But in the book you also talk about a lot of other practical ways in which you treat employees differently than other hotel management companies in the hospitality industry. Talk about some of those other things that you guys do differently with your employees at Ritz Carlton and Capella that others in the hospitality might not do.

A key thing that everybody talks today about two worlds in a business which, and sometimes it is pathetic. I'm sorry, forgive me. How much we talk about it and then you look around and it's not happening. Number one is alignment. Alignment is a big buzzword. And then you talk to employees and ask any of those employees where the company talks about align, what is the company thinking? Where is the company going to go on what's the plan? Have no idea. So what are they aligned to? Every employee had to know what's our purpose. Everybody understands why that purpose. And everybody understands what's the customer generally expecting from us. That's alignment. The other word that's being used is empowerment. Empowerment, also a buzzword. And nobody dares to do something. The other word, of course, is open door policy. Everybody is afraid going through the door that is open, but nobody's afraid to go in. Come on. Empowerment. Here's what we did in empowerment. Every employee had the right to make a decision up to $2,000 if it was about taking care of a customer that had a problem, potentially, Mind you, we instituted that when we had about 15,000 employees at the time. And that takes some training. But every employee has that right. And because if you have a problem as a guest, you don't want them to say, I call the manager. You want them to react and says, please forgive me. And we told our employees not only that, if you feel that we should make amends, you can make that decision up to $2,000. But that is stated to our employees that we trust them, that they're not just working there, fulfilling a function, but they are trusted human beings and they.

Take pride in that.

Right?

They take pride in having that level of ownership. So I mentioned before, my wife and I were down at a Ritz property in Sarasota a few weeks ago. We actually go down there. We live in Tampa. We go down there almost every year for our anniversary and always have an exceptional experience. I love the property there. And this is the first time, and I think seven years, where there was one minor thing that wasn't perfect and it was significant enough to where I felt like I had to tell somebody. And so I went up to the concierge and it wasn't the concierge's fault at all. But immediately he apologized or he didn't shift blame to, oh, yeah, the pool staff is, you know, so subpar. He accepted responsibility and he felt empowered to make things right. He sent a nice bottle of champagne up to the room and did some other things for us at dinner. So I was so impressed.

Chris, he's empowered.

He was empowered, and you could tell he was proud to do it right. It wasn't a chore to him. It was his job to serve the customer well. And he did it really well. So, Horst, let's go back to your.

Story just to be sure we don't just say that every employee is certified in problem resolution. That's why they know how to handle the situations and then are empowered to react.

I'm sorry, no, that's super interesting. Speaking of that follow up question that, did you guys develop your own curriculum?

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

So help me understand something, Horst. You have no experience in the hotel industry. Age 11, you decide you want to work in a Hotel. Age 14, you start this amazing apprenticeship. How do you go from there, this kid from the small town in Germany to co founding two of the great hotel brands of our time? Right, so you went to go work at Hyatt for a while, is that right?

Yeah. Well, first coming from there, as a young man I worked in truly the finest hotels in Europe and in the Burwash palace in Lausanne, Bellevue palace in Bern, Plaza Adne, Paris, Hunter Meckelein in the Savoy in London and in Barclay in London. And then came to the United States and pretty soon worked in Hilton in San Francisco and so on. Worked in a private club in between, worked for Hilton again, got started career movement in Hilton, became catering manager of food and beverage manager. Joined Hyatt in opening Hyatt in Chicago. And I opened it as a director of food and beverage operation. Became the rooms manager. About two years later became general manager. And if I read a book in Pittsburgh, that was a great experience.

Yeah, I saw that.

Then moved on as general manager in a large Hyatt in Detroit, Michigan. Then became regional vice president over 10 hotels in that area and then became vice president food and beverage over all the United States. 65 hotels at the time for hired. Then somebody called me as I was have a stellar career frankly with Hyatt and it's a wonderful company and I enjoyed it very much. But somebody called me and said that they are starting a new hotel company because they have two hotels in construction, they cannot come to agreement with any existing brand, so they want to start their own brand. And then the investors and developers, they're looking for somebody that runs the operation, starts a company managing the operation. And they told me I could do what I want in operations. And I said, well, I want to go top line. And they said that's fine. So I moved to Atlanta and took the job because I had a dream to create my own, the best hotel company in the world. And frankly, I didn't know what to do. I started to say no to them. No. But my wife saw I was interested because of that dream that I'm creating the finest hotel company in the world. But I was happy.

I bet you were pretty comfortable as a VP at Hyah.

Very, very. I mean, golden handcuffs everything. You want a young star in the company. But we prayed that the door would close and one would stay open. And sure enough, something happened and they called me again from Atlanta and accepted the job. I went to Atlanta. Frankly, the first two years were disastrous. It was Very difficult. I mean, it was a disaster. And it looked, we're not going to make it. So I went home. I didn't tell Sherry, my wife, because we couldn't sell our house in Chicago. We had a lot of debt. We have a new baby and she had enough to carry. But finally I had to because the company wasn't working. So I went to her and said, sherry, I think we made a mistake moving here. I have to tell you the truth. And she looked at me, why would you argue with God? We prayed on it. We had a clear answer. Here we are. Maybe the job doesn't work out, but we didn't make a mystic move here. God told us, man. And I said, well, I said, sherry, I will never argue with God again. In front of you.

At least in front of you, right?

At least in front of you.

That's fantastic. So you came up through food and beverage. That's interesting. And at some point, maybe next time in Atlanta, I want to talk about how you start up a hotel brand, right? Because there's so much capital involved and there's so many different players from the brand to the chain to the operators and developers and investors. I'm a tech startup guy. I've started and sold a couple of software businesses. Those are the easiest businesses in the world to start up. A hotel is infinitely more complex. But again, we don't have time for that today. One question I did want to ask though is about just entrepreneurship in general, right? So Ken Blanchard, world renowned leadership expert, has said that out of the Hundreds of top CEOs he has worked with, you are, quote, easily in his top five. That blew my mind. That is quite the statement. So listen, you're a world class entrepreneur. What do world class entrepreneurs do that their less masterful counterparts don't do?

I'm not talking about myself. I would say world class leaders. World class entrepreneurs. World class leaders. I developed a model for it, if you will, because I looked at it long time. Who are the leaders? Who are the managers? World class entrepreneurs are great leaders, first of all. Okay, they're leaders and managers force things to happen. They establish what has to happen to oversee it, they direct it, the controller and so on. Leaders point toward a great purpose, toward a great vision. The leader sees something beautiful in the future and everything that happens in the organization is toward that future. The way you high appeal. And again I mentioned before, the leader truly knows that future is good for all concerned. As I pointed out, employees, owners and so on. Now in that moment, once I totally know as A leader that it's good for all concerned, that gives my direction for managing. That doesn't mean I cannot compromise with one employees because I done hurt all employees. Then I cannot compromise not to be excellent with every guest, etc. Etc. So it directs me. So the model is kind of having a great vision. Be committed to the mission, be committed to it, not a pipe dream. And next, institute the steps that gets you to that vision. Once you can see where you want to be, then you know the roadmap that you have to develop to get there. If you don't know where you want to be, how can you develop a roadmap? How can you have a plan really finally keep focus on it? Because I learned that everybody, once you have set the vision, everybody finds a reason why maybe it's not possible, why cannot be done, why not under the circumstances, etc. Etc. It doesn't matter to the leader. The leader focuses on the vision, on the purpose, and constantly focuses on the fact that it has to be good for all concerned. So in this moment I know how to manage the employee. I know everything. I know what decision to make. I have to get up in the morning and no matter what is happening, I have to look at my vision again, even if it looks hopeless. Which I had for a moment there when I talked to my wife and she said, and I immediately apologize, I said, yeah, that's right, what am I doing? I'm not focused on the vision. And of course the rest is history. We became the number one hotel company in the world, voted for years. We were voted number one by everybody awards in the world. It's all because we had the vision and the dream and we made sure we had work environment where people joined that vision and didn't just do a job, they had a purpose. I mean, come on, Aristotle said already people will perish without purpose. The Bible says people will perish without purpose. Aristotle said, you will not be fulfilled without purpose. We all have to have our earthly purpose, but we have to incorporate our eternal purpose in it. Of course, is it good for all concerned? Also include. You have to question yourself as a Christian. Would Jesus agree with this? Yeah, if I don't do it, if I don't do that, where are my values as a Christian?

That's exactly right. I love the chapter in the book where you talked about the difference between leaders and managers. I thought that was really good and one thing I've thought a lot about. So I currently serve as chairman of the board of a tech startup called Threshold360 where we're on a mission to map out the inside of every public location in the world using 360 imagery. And we've done it at a greater scale than anybody except for Google in the world. It got about 250,000 hotels and restaurants, shops and attractions. Yeah, it's a really, really fun venture. I ran it for two and a half years day to day as CEO. One thing that we talked a lot about was the vision always remained intact. Right. So the vision for the bench cannot change.

Yeah.

Cannot change. Allow anybody.

I mean, people will change.

Right?

People will change strategies, everything changed. But not the vision.

But not the vision. That's exactly right. I think a lot of entrepreneurs and leaders have trouble with that. They see changing circumstances and a changing competitive landscape, and they feel like that means that they need to change the vision, the horizons of the venture. And I found that to be really bad advice. Right. Maybe change strategy and tactics and team. So long as that vision remains intact. You would agree with that, Horst?

Absolutely. Everything else may change, everything else might change, but your vision will not change. And your overall philosophy, that means your culture will not change. But strategies, tactics, your tools, everything may change. People, but not your vision and your culture, that will not change. That you have to keep intact.

Yeah, that's good. That's good advice. So I'm really curious. So I love studying the routines of high performers, especially those who love Jesus. Maybe take us back to your days running a hotel, being a gm, maybe the hotel in Pittsburgh, or whichever you think is most applicable. And I'm just curious, what does a typical workday look like for a gm? Like, walk us through that daily routine.

Okay. I just thought about Darbon, which was more or less the last hotel around, a large hotel. I had an apartment in the hotel. Married. My wife was there. And so we have the class elevators coming down from the 11th floor. And so I'm going in the class elevator in the morning, early. And I know we have a check out of about 400 rooms and check in of about 500 rooms. I know I have a luncheon in a ballroom, in the large ballroom of 1400 people at noon in the same room. I have a meeting starting at 3:00'. Clock. And the meeting planner had heard about that, but it was a meeting. Who is already upset with me. Take a chance. And then I know in the evening we have a wedding, Mrs. Goldberg's daughter getting married. And I'm in the class and I'm looking down on the coffee shop and I see a line of about 50 people staying there. And I think about all the stuff that happens today and I think I hope that everybody showed up in the coffee shop and I hope the cook showed up. So by the time the elevator lands on the first floor, I'm already perspiring, right?

Because you're watching it all unfold as you head down the elevator, right?

Going to attack me this day. I go to the office and I look at the hotel indicator. Same thing. Is there anything new with customer satisfaction, employee satisfaction? What did we do last night? What was the argument? What was the rate and all this stuff? And what.

So your first thing, your first thing when. Sorry to interrupt. Your first thing when you got in the office, you looked at the data, right? You had.

I look at all the data. There's much more data in a hotel. And then of course, the next thing is my meeting with the key executives. We review the day, the next thing that we do. And then I say I stopped the executive meeting, which is set for an hour always, but I stop it always 15 minutes before. Part of the meeting is that everybody walks throughout the hotel and says very friendly hello to every employee that encounter interpersonal relationship, establish the interpersonal issue together. I can't have it for thousand employees. I can't have with every employee. But we all have to go around, encounter them, look them in the eye, say hello with. Otherwise we role play for them. How do you say hello to a guest? In a way. So we make it 15 minutes, then everybody is in their work areas, food and berries rooms and everybody's in their work areas. Then it goes back to the office and you see you have mail. What is the issue of the day? Is anybody suing you? Literally look at all the issues. What are the issues of the day? In response to the issue for the day, we have meetings with lawyers, we have meetings with financial people. And the next thing is I typically then after I go to the sales department and ask the director, can I support you in any sales that you're working on? I personally call the meeting planner and say, I commit myself personally, this will be a good meeting or whatever. So then of course you go back, your check in is happening. Then you check with the front desk. How is the checkout happening? Are we ready for 500 check ins? Have we check in today? Remind me we had an average to check in, check out in that hotel of over 375 rooms every day. So there is major organization going on and major work going on. In the meantime, you get, you have the executive. You made sure that all departments are functioning well. They are all set to function. And then of course, the meeting complainer comes in who has the meeting at 3 o'. Clock. He is very upset because we have a luncheon in that room and he said, you will never be ready. How can you be ready for that room? You have to send the mailman because his job depends on how the meeting is going. But the meeting breaks at 2:00'. Clock. And then in the meantime, we mobilize every free person that can take free, every secretary. Everybody goes in that room and resets the room for the meeting. And the meeting planner comes to you and says, wow, I've never seen anything that professional. So you're happy for those that don't know.

So I'm actually pretty familiar with this meeting planner. So we. So at threshold 360, we sell to a lot of hotels, a lot of hotels as customers all around the world and destination marketing organizations. DMOs. Right. So for those of you listening, San Francisco travel, visit Dallas, these types of groups. One thing I've learned in that experience is meeting planners run the hospitality industry. These people are booking 500 peak room nights at a time, 1500 peak room nights at a time. They're what drives these hotel businesses. So when you hear Horse talking about the importance of the meeting planner, these people really do make the world of hospitality go round.

That's right.

So, Horace, I'm curious. You have a crazy day. As soon as you get down that elevator, you're in the thick of it. How did you stay sane through all that? And what were some of your spiritual disciplines that you used to kind of maintain your perspective?

Well, you start off the day and I'm kind of meditate with God, with Jesus, and ask him to support me, to be with me, to make sure that I enjoy it. I promise myself then I'm going to work now to create excellence in all that I'm doing. I promise that to God. It's embarrassing that to me that we as Christians don't run the finest product that is ever created in any business.

Why do you, why do you say.

That we should be the example. My goodness. We work with the best support system that is our Lord and the best belief system. And if you have the best belief system, you can run the best business. That is to me quite clear. And I'm confused why that is not true. It bothers me, all this, by the way. But I'm also, of course, type A personality. I was thriving on the, on the intensity of competition, the intensity of the day. Many of the day is not over. Or now I have to look forward to Mrs. Goldberg's wedding. Right, Right. I mean, my goodness. I mean, she has literally threatened me with my life if everything doesn't go fine. I mean, that's how it goes. And so in the evening, and you're in a dark suit and you're now the social host, you're in the restaurants, you say hello to guests, the gentleman who has nothing much to do but just walk around and say hello to people, and the elegant guy and so on. But now the wedding is going great and Mrs. Goldberg, in the meantime, it's 10 o' clock in the night and the wedding is. Everything went through and Ms. Goldberg comes and she's crying and hugs you and thanks you and thanks. The children will be happy forever because everything went perfect. And then you make one more tour around the hotel and the pretty hostess and the cafe said, you have a beautiful tie. That really made your day.

How long was your day?

Oh, usually I was on the floor at 7 o', clock, and sometimes in the evening when it was not so busy, when there was no major function, social functions, you have to be there because that's what they expect and they destroy you if you're not.

Right.

So. But in between, sometimes I went up to my wife, we had a little dinner together in our apartment, and then I went back down again and there was social functions. So to see you. But, you know, and here's the big thing, what you have to understand as a business person after a day like that, and that's a Stephen Covey saying, I did a lot of urgent things, but I didn't do anything to improve the company for the future.

Right.

That's a big issue that we all have to understand, and I trust that somewhat in the book, too, in the meantime, because what you have to do, and you have the teams that understand the mistakes that happen, have teams to work on finding the root cause of what happens and eliminate the root causes so the mistake will never happen again. Then you have improved your hotel and so on. And that is a total additional part of the day in the life of a general manager. It is very intense. Of course, you have to be outside, too. You have to be involved outside in the Businessmen's association, the Rotary Club and the Chamber of Commerce and the Conventional Visitors Bureau, all that involved. Believe me, believe me, they are intense.

I'm sure it's an intense job, but it's also probably exhilarating. So that's. That's fascinating. So I want to wrap up With a couple of just real rapid fire questions that I'm always curious to ask people that I sit down and have a conversation with. First and foremost, other than the Bible, what one book has most influenced you?

No, I can't give you one.

See, I can't answer this question either. It's very unfair.

There are many that influence. Give me a few. I mentioned Stephen Covey's book.

Which one in particular?

Peter Trucker. Everything what Peter Trucker did. At the same time, several of Tim Keller's writings I happen to like. But at the same time, the philosophers, starting from Aristalis of Plato all the way to Nietzsche, if you will, has a lot of meaning to me and a lot of impact. And of course, it's very difficult to name one book.

I hear you. So Keller is my all time favorite. My listeners know that. I'm curious which Keller titles in particular.

Stick out to you and then. But I never forget reading his book on marriage. What was it when he said, listen, I mean, that's Keller. His intellectual analysis of everything and his fun statements. And when you move in, get married, move in, and suddenly you live with a totally incompatible stranger. Now, come on, who can make it clearer? Something more important than marriage.

So this podcast, it's all about people who are high performing professionals talking about their work and also talking about their faith and how their faith impacts their work. What one person, what one follower of Jesus Christ. Would you most like to hear talk about some of these topics on this podcast? 2.

Paul.

Yeah.

And Martin Luther. And Martin Luther.

Okay, that's gonna. Those are gonna be tough to pull off.

Get him there.

Get him here. I'll tell you what, when we're in glory, glory forever, we'll sit down and we'll have a conversation with how these guys thought about the record.

Of course, good friend, Dan Cathy.

Yeah, we need to get Dan on here for sure. Dan Cathy, CEO of Chick Fil A.

Who I've learned about and he's a.

Good friend and in Atlanta. All right, Horace, last question for you. What one piece of advice would you give to somebody who, like you, is pursuing mastery of this art of leadership?

Well, again, I cannot overemphasize this. Have a vision. Don't make it a pipe dream. Make it a vision. Think about it. Think about it. Dream about it. Look at it. Careful, careful, careful. Who do I want to be in 10 years? I'm working with a bank right now in Texas. They establish a vision. They are a small bank. A small bank. Immaterial in the scheme of things. In the United States. I worked with them and they finally said, yes, our dream would be to be the leading financial institution in the United States. That's our vision for 10 years from now. And I said, let's go, let's go. Now. You have purpose giving your employees purpose, and you see the growth toward that, and the journey will be exciting. You may not quite make it there, but I'm telling you, you get further than you would have been without a vision. Don't work without a vision. Work with purpose. But ask yourself, would Jesus approve it? Would he applaud you? I believe he will. As long as you make sure your purpose is good for everybody, including yourself, but good for everybody that is possibly connected with that purpose and with your business, then go and let yourself be guided by it.

That's well said. And of course, I just can't thank you enough for your words in this conversation and just your commitment to the ministry of excellence. Right? This commitment to doing everything that we do as exceptionally as we can, whatever our work is not primarily for our own fame and fortune, but for the glory of God and the good of others. For those of you listening, the book is Excellence Wins. I cannot recommend it highly enough. Like I said, I read it in two days. I highlighted most of the book by Horst Schulze. I cannot recommend it highly enough. Go pick it up wherever books are sold. Horst, thank you so much for sitting down and having this conversation. I appreciate it.

Well, I tell you, I really enjoyed it. Enjoyed being with you, was fun.

What a great conversation. I hope you guys enjoyed that episode as much as I enjoyed recording it and talking to Horst. Hey, if you're enjoying the podcast, make sure you subscribe to the Call to Mastery so you never miss an episode as we start to release these week to week. If you're already subscribed, do me a huge favor. Take 30 seconds and review the podcast on itunes. It's the number one thing you can do to ensure that more people find this show and find this content. If you have no idea how to subscribe to or review a podcast, head over to JordanRaynor.com podcast. That's JordanRaynor.com podcast. We've made it crazy easy for you to do both of those things. Hey, thank you so much for listening to this episode. We'll see you next time.

Sam.