Jenna Barrett (Manager of Brand Advertising and Marketing at Choice Hotels)

Today's episode will begin in three minutes. But first I want to tell you about something crazy I'm doing for my new book, five Mere Christians. I've never seen an author do this before, but I'm giving a money back.

Guarantee on this book.

I'm so confident you're gonna love this book that if I'm wrong, if you pre order the book, you don't love it, I'm gonna send you a $20Amazon gift card as a money back guarantee. Why?

Two reasons.

One, this is a different book for me, Right. I know this is a very different biography is what is Jordan Rayner doing? And I know it's risky, so I'm going to de risk it for you. Because, listen, in my other books, Redeeming youg Time, the Sacredness of Secular Work, Master of One, et cetera, et cetera, I am telling you and me how we can glorify God in our work. But in five Mere Christians, I'm doing something very different. I'm showing you what that looks like practically through these unforgettable life stories of five Mere Christians from history. These are the top men and women that I would love to have on.

This podcast today if, you know, they weren't dead, right? So that's the first reason this is.

A risk and I'm gonna de risk.

This book for you.

Here's the second reason. I'm just confident you're gonna love this book. My friend Mark Batterson said, quote, five Mere Christians proves that biographies can be extremely entertaining, profoundly helpful, and mercifully short. If you're looking for a book that combines the punch of a great sermon with the pace of a great thriller, this is it. Highly recommended.

End quote. But here's the thing.

In order to qualify for this money back guarantee, you got to do two things. Step one, pre order five Mere Christians in any format, hardback, ebook, audiobook, whatever. And then step two, go to 5merechristians.com and fill out the form on that page. And that's it. But you got to do it by midnight Eastern Time on May 9 by filling out that form. You'll also get all of the pre.

Order bonuses listed on 5 mereChristians.

Calm and be entered to win this crazy, epic trip for two to Europe. So visit 5meerchristians.com right now to sign up.

Now, please enjoy today's episode.

Hey, friend. Welcome to the Mere Christians podcast.

I'm Jordan Raynor.

How does the gospel influence the work of mere Christians?

Those of us who aren't pastors or religious Professionals, but who work as seamstresses.

Academic deans and executives. That's the question we explore every week. And today I'm posing it to my.

Good friend Jenna Barrett.

She's an executive at Choice Hotels. She's crazy young and one of the.

Most impressive Mere Christians I know.

Jenna and I sat down to talk about how you can discern what God.

Wants to renew in your workplace.

We shared three positive things that boasting in your weaknesses can produce. And I also touched on my brand.

New vocational dream for the new Earth.

I loved this episode. I'm confident you will too.

Do not miss this terrific conversation with Jenna Barrett. Jenna Barrett, welcome back to the Mere Christians podcast.

Thanks, Jordan. I'm excited to be here.

We had you way back in episode 61, when you were Jenna Fortier at the time. Way back when, way back when. Then had you back to interview me for episode 100. You're like a legend. But now you're back with a new name, thanks to your wonderful husband Adam, who I love. Can we go to old Evict Grill in D.C. again, by the way, the three of us?

I would love to. That was so fun.

Anytime.

And you got a new job at.

Choice Hotels, so you've done a lot since then. So back in 2022, you joined Choice Hotels. I remember getting this text from you where you're like, they're giving me so much responsibility. And then I found out, like, a couple months later, you were basically responsible for this huge ad campaign with Zooey Deschanel. What was that like?

It was wild. Yeah. I had never done anything like that before managing it. But I will say I'm definitely my own worst enemy. Thinking that, I was like, yeah, I remember texting you and being like, I'm not prepared for this. I don't know what I'm doing. But I will say I have some great mentors in my life that definitely saw that I was capable and saw the potential. And I owe so much to them that just handed over this campaign to me and said, we know you can do it. Here it is. Go manage it. And through lots of prayer and just, like, dependence on God to bring me through, it was huge, huge success. So on my third campaign now, which has been a lot of fun. Yeah.

You did one with the Keegan Michael Key. I heard he's a good hang.

He's amazing. Yes. He is everything that you think he would be. Yeah.

Just a couple days ago, I wrote a devotional about boasting and weaknesses, and I was thinking a little bit about you in this upcoming conversation because, I mean, you've been in a lot of positions where you've had to admit your own weaknesses and inadequacies and lack of experience because you're crazy young in crazy high profile roles. Talk about how that's been good for you spiritually or if it's been good for spirits. I guess I shouldn't assume that it has been.

Yeah, no, it, it has. And you're right. I've been brought into lots of roles and projects where I have at least felt very ill equipped or too inexperienced for. But yeah, it's been so good for my faith because I think I just know I'm in good company. Like God has a track record of using the unprepared and, and calling them higher. So my prayers turned from, you know, God, why are you placing me here? I don't know what I'm doing to thank you, God, for calling me into this role. I don't know what I'm doing. But I've read this story before. Like you called Moses to lead people out of Egypt. And when he said, who am I, that I should go? You said, I will be with you. And when he said, I am not eloquent in speech, you said, who gave human beings their mouths? Who makes them deaf or muted? Who gives them sight or makes them blind? Is it not I, the Lord? Now go. I will help you speak and teach you what to say. And I just think reading those stories all throughout scripture gives me so much confidence that, yeah, I know how the story goes. He's going to be with me. And it almost gives me more confidence when I feel ill equipped because that's how he likes to work.

Why do you think he likes to work that way?

That's a good question. I think it displays his power. Right. Like when we ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

Yeah, that's.

That's right answer. Yeah. When we aren't able to rely on our own strength and have to just be fully dependent on the Lord and call on his name to give us wisdom in what to do next. It is just like when I'm in those scenarios. I cannot praise myself and my own effort because it was far beyond what I knew and what I imagined I could do on my own.

Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah. I think three things happen when we boast in our weaknesses. Number one, we get help. Proverbs 11:2 says, when pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with humility comes wisdom. Right? So we boast our weaknesses, we get wisdom, we get help. Number two, others get blessings. And number three, I think most importantly, God gets greater glory. This is Paul in Second Corinthians. I think it's chapter 12, talking about how he delights in his weaknesses because when he is weak, then he is strong, and for Christ's sake, he delights in those things. That's what you're talking about?

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. Hey, you and I, when we got together with your husband Adam, over dinner, we talked a lot about this over the years, about the five chapter gospel, creation, fall, redemption, renewal and consummation. And every time we talk about this, you get like fired up and ready to go. If I want to get Jenna Barrett excited about something, talk about renewal, especially the root, this, that this is, this is the path, just this idea that God has called us to partner with him in renewing and repairing creation, that we are not just praying thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven, but that we are mysteriously, through the power of the Holy Spirit, part of the means by which the kingdom, kingdom comes on earth as it is in heaven. Why do you get so fired up about this?

Yeah, well, first of all, I feel like, yeah, not many people get as fired up about this as I do, so they should. They. Well, and you do. So thank you for being my companion in that first off. But I do think that every Christian has these topics, whether it's, you know, a characteristic of God, a promise of God, something He's done for us, that whenever we think about that thing, we are just in awe. And no matter how many times we talk about it, our excitement is at the same level as when we first learned about that truth. And for me, that is a thousand percent, this discussion on renewal. And I think it's just like I am so in awe that not only God would create us and intentionally design our gifts and talents, and not only would he come and save us from our sin and restore a right relationship with him, but then after all of that, he would call us to participate in the work that he's doing in the world, that he would use broken vessels that ill equipped to be agents for his renewal. Ephesians 2, 10 says, we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God has prepared in advance for us to do. And yeah, I just can't think of a more meaningful calling than that. Like, he doesn't need anything from us. And yet because of his great love for us, we honor him when we get to work alongside Him.

What do you mean when you talk about Renewal, because a lot of people, I know, a lot of believers interpret this, you know, good works God prepared in advance for us to do to mean exclusively evangelism, exclusively kind of individual discipleship. And how do you think about that biblical call to renewal?

I think about. And it really is like this, seeing your work and viewing your work through the lens of the full story of the Gospel. But I look at it as not like personal renewal and salvation, but redeeming and restoring the broken places in culture and in the world. Like how God originally created things to be, had a certain purpose, inherent goodness. Some of that became broken because of the fall. And now we are agents alongside of him, redeeming, renewing, back to his original design. And there's so many ways that we're able to do that. And as you know, I believe one of the best ways is through our jobs.

And by the way, it's a both and right. We do believe in individual brokenness and individual redemption, but also this horizontal, systemic brokenness and redemption. All right, so let's talk about that.

As it pertains to hospitality.

You're in the hotel world now, right? I want to talk about how you see your job as renewing creation. But to do that, I think we first got to start with, okay, what's good about the work of hospitality going back to creation, what's creationally good? And then two, what's broken because of the fall and sin in the world of hospitality?

So can you talk about that kind.

Of Act 1, creation, Act 2, the fall, as it pertains to the world of hospitality?

Yes. And I'll first start by saying that just this method of seeing the gospel through the lens of your own industry or job has been so foundational to my theology of work. So if you haven't heard of it before, essentially you take your industry, whatever it is that you do, you think about how it was created to be, how the core principles of your industry were meant to be in God's design. Then due to the fallen world, what aspects of that became broken. And finally, how you see God intending to redeem those broken places and how you are uniquely designed to partner with him in that. So this is how I think about it for hospitality, and I'll caveat that these are my own thoughts and beliefs and not representative of choice hotels. This is how I think about the story.

So the lawyers. The lawyers are saying, thank you.

So to see what's good about the hospitality industry, I think first we define it, right? So throughout the Bible, we see hospitality in the form of God providing protection to his people and Jesus sharing meals with others and welcoming the outsider. The list goes on. But in all instances, I think it's really love expressed in Greek. The word is philo. I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly. Philoxenia. And it's a compound word, philo which means love, and xenos which means stranger, foreigner or guest. And I love how John Mark Comer defines hospitality. He says hospitality is the opposite of xenophobia. It's the love of the stranger, not the hate or the fear of the other. It's the act of welcoming the outsider in and in doing so turning guests into neighbors and neighbors into family of God. So that's how I look about, think about the goodness of hospitality. And in so many ways the industry is doing this today. And something so cool to me is how I think you can pinpoint pieces of God's heart into different types of hospitality companies. So for example, God's heart is to protect, right? We see in Psalm 46, verse 1, God is our refuge and our strength, and ever present help in trouble. And I can't think of a more raw example here of providing refuge to God's people than through the hotel industry. Day in and day out, hotels welcome guests to give them place to stay, make them feel safe under their roofs as they sleep at night. And I think God smiles at that as his people are protected. We know that God's heart is for the nations. Exodus 9:16 reveals his heart here when he speaks to Pharaoh and says, but I have raised you up for this purpose that I might show you my power and that my name might proclaimed in all the earth. And guests from literally all around the world are coming to you in hotels and on cruise ships, especially in big cities and ports around the world. And the opportunity that these employees have each and every day to serve people from around the world and express love to them is unmatched. We see that God's heart is relational and the restaurant industry mirrors that by, you know, creating a space to enjoy a meal that's thoughtful and intentional and community, which is something that Jesus clearly cared deeply about. In the Gospel of Luke alone, there are over 50 references to Jesus and food and in Matthew 94. So clearly the dining table can be a sacred place. And it doesn't matter whether you know you're at a Chick fil a or a five star restaurant, eating a meal in community is made possible here. And God's heart is to provide and create. John 1, verse 3 says through him all things were made without him. Nothing was made that has been made. And in all places, restaurant workers are using the raw materials that God provided them through creation to serve strangers. It's an act of making beautiful things, just as God first showed us and then passed the baton for us to do in Genesis. So I feel like I go on forever, but so good. Just a few ways that we can see it. I mean, it's everywhere. So that's the goodness of hospitality.

That's one of the best articulations I've ever heard of creational good in an industry, by the way. So a hundred bonus points to Jenna Barrett.

Thank you. Thank you.

This is like. Did you ever. Oh, you're too young for this. Did you ever watch Whose Line Is It Anyway?

No, I didn't.

Of course you didn't.

Gosh, of course. You need.

You need to watch. You need to watch Whose Line Is It Anyway? It was this, like, improv show where they just made up points and the points meant absolutely nothing. And that's what I've just decided. I'm gonna start doing this on the Mere Christians podcast. So 100 points for your answer on the creation of goodness, of hospitality. All right, so that's what's good.

That's God's intention for hospitality.

Yep.

How's it? Broken?

Yep. Yeah. So the fall, I think just like any industry in a fallen world, right. There's so many opportunities for God's renewal. But one broken place I wanted to talk about that I feel particularly burdened by is the monetization of genuine service. And hear me when I say, not the monetization of the industry itself, but how the level of hospitality that you receive, the way that you're treated as a human being, is somewhat determined by the price that you're able to pay. Like, we just expect as a society to be treated differently as a human at a five star restaurant than at a fast food chain. And surely there are outliers and exceptions here, but this is 100% not what God intended as love expressed as hospitality that welcomes the outsider. So I think that that's one area God is trying to redeem. And hear me when I say, again, not talking about reducing prices everywhere. I'm talking about treating everyone with dignity and honor, no matter the establishment and how much it costs. And I think God is doing this actively today. Like, easiest example is Chick Fil A. Right? Like, people associate Chick Fil A with service immediately. Why? Because it's the best service out of any dining establishment ever. No, but it's unexpected, it's set apart. And the level of service is surprising given the price of admission. Chicken sandwich for 5.89. And I love how this company is so clearly doing their part to reclaim the goodness of hospitality and as something joyfully given to all people and demonstrating radical trust in closing their operations on Sundays, yet still making like two times the revenue of their competitors, which is crazy. And I think one practical action they model for this industry is they have incredibly selective franchisee application processes. I read that in the Wall Street Journal. I think they said they select 130 out of 8,000 applicants annually. And what I think is funny and an incredible stat is that it's actually harder to become a Chick fil a franchisee than it is to get into Harvard or Stanford because they have like a 1.63% acceptance rate, which is crazy. And I think it's such a cool testament to their unwavering values. And they just know that true hospitality both honors God, serves their customers well, but it's also just a good business decision and they're reaping the benefits of that.

All right, so let's apply this to your work. You're marketer inside of this big collection of hotels under the Choice Hotels brand. How are you working to renew what you see as broken in this space?

Yeah, well, so what we just talked about is very much broad and how I feel like God is working through the industry at large. For me, I'm a marketer and so my role in redeeming hospitality, the love of the stranger, is really being the customer champion and the customer advocate. And you can do this as any marketer outside the industry too. But that role of the marketer to stand in for the customer is such a cool opportunity to serve. So every day I keep this in mind by just being thoughtful about the decisions we make, how it will impact the customer. When we're developing marketing to tell stories that are compelling and true and just think of new ways to connect and invite more people to travel. Like it's a fun industry to be a part of too. You're inviting people to travel and have more experiences with their family and friends. But I do feel a lot of responsibility around the fact that most consumer facing marketing at some point goes through my team's eyes. And so this little corner of marketing, I get to stand in for the good of the customer. And that's how I see it.

Yeah, it's really good. I love that. That was an excellent case study of creation, fall, redemption, renewal has it been a work in progress for years for you of thinking through this. What encouragement would you give to our listeners to take the time to go through this process of seeing their work through the five chapter gospel?

Yeah, I would encourage everyone to, if you haven't done it already. I think I heard it on at least the topic of it, either in another podcast or something in your ecosystem of content, Jordan. But as soon as I heard it, it was like, wow. Because we, you know, if you're a listener of Jordan's podcast and have read his content, you know that your work matters to God. But sometimes it's difficult to, like, take it all the way down the funnel to how the work that you're doing every single day, like, plays a part in God's restoration project of the world. Like, that's a big topic to unpack. And. And for me, seeing it through this whole story arc was so helpful. Unlocked everything. Yeah, I would 100% recommend you do it if you haven't yet.

Yeah. And chapter one of the Sacredness of Secular Work, which, by the way, I think you can find for free, Waterbrook M. Loma's website will help you go through that.

Actually, I think we have the sample.

Still of the audiobook here on the Mirror Christians Podcast. If you scroll back to, I don't know, something like January 2024, you'll find that, and that'll give you kind of the full robust picture of theologically, of what I call the unabridged gospel or this five chapter gospel. But then do the work that Jen is talking about, of applying that to your industry and ultimately your job. Hey, Jenna, something else you and I have talked a lot about over the years are these unique tensions that Christians feel as we do this work of renewal. Right? The tension between, for example, trusting in God to provide in our work and the biblical command to hustle and work hard. Right. The tension between ambition and rest, excellence and mercy, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

I'm curious right now.

What tensions are you feeling most acutely in this season of your career? And how are you managing them?

Yeah, great question. And this is something I get equally fired up about. So I guess this and the renewal.

Piece, I think you've told me three times, this should be my next book.

I have told you that. Yes, it's true. But I think, yeah, first of all, these tensions are so key to not just doing our job well, but doing it as an ambassador of Christ. And I think the first time I realized the power of these tensions and started to Focus on them more was my first job after college. I remember being on a zoom meeting with another co worker. And this was not a co worker that was on my team or that I'd work closely, closely with. And she just broke down about the heaviness she was feeling in her role managing all the work. And she asked me how I was able to be so joyful through the chaos of work. Like, why was I not breaking down? And it gave me a great opportunity to share that. Like, I believe in a God that's sovereign over it all. That's for me, not against me, and will always be with me. And because of that, I just have this through line of peace that allows me to do my work with joy. And. And that's when I realized, like, one, how thankful I am for Christ, for the fact that without Him, I would be in tears and distress all the time. But also how managing these tensions is a clear opportunity to spread the aroma of Christ. To, like, do your work excellently, but then manage that with a trait that is unexpected in our culture that points back to Jesus. And of course, that's such as. So, like the. The things that you mentioned, like excellence and mercy. Right. Like, most people that have a high pursuit of excellence don't have mercy on people that aren't at that level of excellence. Like, they have the standard, but aren't able to give that grace. And so when you see it in tandem, it's like there's something different here. So. And that's why they're hard, right? Like, it's easier said than done because they're called tensions. We're, like, constantly at battle to manage them. And yeah, while joy comes naturally to me, there's a lot of things that don't. So, for example, to answer your question, I'm a very ambitious person. And so prioritizing rest has never been something that has come easy to me. So that's one that I actively manage. I think when I'm under pressure, my instincts are just to work harder, rely on my own strength. But like you said, there's this important tension between hustling and trusting, because it's not me that will ever produce the results, it's God alone. And so by resting, it's an act of me trusting that he is in control, not me. I think another one is patience and pride. And if you would have asked me this before, I would have described it as productivity versus patience. But I remember reading a devotional of yours where you actually contrasted patience with pride.

Yeah. And yeah, I reread this one to myself all the time.

I do too, because you're right. It is like the root of our impatience turned productivity. Because it's the belief that I need to do this thing right now. And somehow the company and the entire world relies on me doing it now. And that's just a prideful thought. God doesn't need us to do anything. It's not about us. And so while it can be natural for me to take every moment of the day, I have to get more done. Hospitality is love expressed. So being with people and being patient is important too.

That's good job 116 says true wisdom has two sides. I love that I can think about that all the time because I do think major truth is almost always buried in seemingly minor nuances between couplets of biblical truths.

Right.

Trust and hustle, ambition and rest, patience and productivity. Or pride. Right. Well, pride's not a positive, but you know what I'm saying, right? And so I think it's wise for any believer to be cognizant of those tensions and think about them in a.

Yes.

And context. Unless one side of that double sided wisdom is sin, like pride. Right. Hey, after our first episode, we did way back when, I don't know if you remember this. You probably do. This publisher, my friend Brad Bird, who has a great publishing house, was listening and emailed you. I think he cc'd me and he was like, hey, Jenna, you don't know me, but you should write a book about these prayers that you're emailing to God. So for those who haven't listened to that episode or read my telling of this story, in the Sacredness of Secular Work, can you reshare this practice here? Because people who read the Sacredness of Secular work love, love, love, love this practice.

Really?

Oh, yeah. Oh, I hear about it all the time.

That's awesome. I love it. Yeah. So essentially, at my very first internship in college, I was interning at Hilton Hotels and was the little social media intern. It was my first time in a big corporate office. And I really like, actually that summer was when I was reading Called to Create. And that's before I emailed you, Jordan, and that whole thing got started. But I was reading Called to Create. And so I was very much trying to, like, see God as my coworker in a very literal way. And like, when I got projects, pray through them, ask for wisdom. And of course, as an intern, I was getting projects that I felt inexperienced for all the time. And so I just remember being in this big corporate office, I Can't really pull my Bible out. Like, I'm not gonna go away and pray. Like, what can I practically do in this setting? And so I created an email address that I would email, and it would be, like, my prayers to God. And it was just like, my journal throughout that summer, and it's even lived on till now. But I would just email my prayers to him. Press send. As I would just ask. Just like, I would ask a co worker for help. I was emailing him asking for help, asking for wisdom. And it was so cool to look back on those emails and just see all the ways that he answered them. And it's now since been my catalog of all of that. Like, I have a catalog of prayers that I've sent to him over the years. And every once in a while, like, something great happens at work, I'll forward it to that email address as a praise to him of, like, thank you so much for how you've worked and, you know, created this outcome in my life. So, yeah, that's the story.

I love this. I love this so much. I heard one person, though, when I was telling them about this, like, object, and they're like, oh, you're like, diminishing God. Like, you're putting God on the level of a coworker when he is God Almighty. How would you respond to that?

I. It's a good.

I defended you, but I want to hear you defend yourself.

Yeah, I see where they're coming from, but it's like, we have access to God all the time through anywhere. And I. I'm pretty sure if we would ask God, he wants us to pray without ceasing. Right. I mean, I know that that's in the Bible. We should pray without ceasing. And there are certain contexts where, like, I couldn't just close my eyes and out loud, pray to God, but I wanted a tangible way to, like, ask him for wisdom. And. And so I did that in the means that I could in that scenario. And if I hadn't and just closed it off until I got home, I. I wouldn't be praying without seizing. I wouldn't be, like, surrendering what I had in that moment to him. And honestly, like, it was out of desperation, like, I didn't know what to do. And in that moment, I wanted to ask my father for help. And I think that he smiled at that.

I have no doubt about that. And that was my case. Basically, what I said was, any practice that draws us nearer to God and more humbly reliant on God is a Win. And I think the Lord is pleased with that. What else are you doing? I'm curious, if anything else, to ensure that you're doing this work of renewing creation? To borrow language from my buddy Scott Jatani, with God and not just for him.

Yeah, I mean, first answer 100 is the vocational small group. So for those of you that aren't in it, Jordan's Mere Christians Community hosts this vocational small group, which is essentially what you'd think of as a church small group model, but instead with people that share the same vocation as you do. And so I'm in the managers group, and that is such a great community to just meet people in the same vocation that are pursuing excellence in their role, but also really care about doing their work as a means of partnering with God. And it's just great wisdom and accountability in that, like, we ask each other questions all the time of checking our hearts and making sure we're doing this work of renewal with God and not just for Him. So that has been a great rhythm in my calendar. And the other thing that I do that I love is, and it actually came out of a conversation with a vocational small group. I now have this time on my calendar every Monday. It's called Redemptive Reflection. And it's just this time for me to meet with God and ask him really practically how I'm uniquely positioned to redeem and renew where I am at work. So I built these questions for myself. And some of them are like, what broken places or relationships am I seeing right now? And how can I help build a bridge there? Another question is, how can I better cultivate joy in this world of negativity? What project right now feels really chaotic? How can I bring order to that? What good work can I celebrate alongside my team this week? How am I, you know, protecting regular rhythms of rest with my team and how can I do better? And I think there's a question about what team member might need some extra encouragement this week. And so that really grounds me in, like bringing it all the way down to the practical level of how I can be an agent for his renewal every single week.

I love those questions.

When do you do this?

Monday at 10am Monday at 10am I.

Love that so, so much. And hey, I'm calling it audible right now. So technically, the Mere Christians community is going to be closed. The doors can be closed when we air this episode. Well, I'm going to find a way to open up the doors for a few days after this episode airs, because that was A pretty great endorsement for the miraculous community. And Jen is not just in the leaders group, the managers group.

Sorry.

She's a leader of the managers group.

So if you want to hang out.

With Jenna and hundreds of people like Jenna, go to jordanraynor.commcc and you can get into the community today. All right, Jenna, four questions. We wrap up every episode with. By the way, we have a new one. We have a fourth.

Did I tell you this?

You did tell me this one, so I'm glad you did. I am. This is a great question.

Let's do it. Let's do it. We took a break this summer. We came back, and I'm like, yeah, we gotta add this because I love it.

All right. What job would you love for God.

To graciously give you on the new Earth?

I love. You're asking this to everyone now. It's amazing. I did have to think about it for a while.

Oh, by the way, I have a new dynamite answer to this, so flip the mic in a second.

Okay, well, I'm gonna hear. Yes, I need to hear your answer. Okay. So I think in light of everything we just talked about, I think what would be so cool would be telling these stories of renewal and. And how God used each individual, their specific talents and gifts in their jobs to bring pieces of heaven down to earth and, like, the story of how it got from there and brokenness to, like, where we are now on the new Earth and, like, just getting to tell those personal stories.

So you want to co host the Mere Christians podcast on the new Earth? Is that what you're saying?

That's true. It's literally. Yeah. So now that everyone is listening, are. Are we going to do that? You good with that?

Yeah, 100%.

Listen, we've got billions a year, so.

You can have dozens of answers to this question. That's the beauty here.

That's why I have a new answer.

So, okay, so what's your answer?

All right, so I was asked, like, years and years ago I could do anything else other than what I was doing, what I would do. And my answer was, I would be the personal photographer to the President of the United States.

Because this is such a great gig. Like, you are in ev.

Oh, yeah.

You're in every single room. Oftentimes the only person in the room.

Other than the president and whoever the president is meeting with. And it's just a cool vantage point to see history. I love photography.

I don't.

I don't engage with photography very much anymore, but I used to, like, really really love it. And so on the new Earth, man, I'd love to be one of Jesus's personal photographers. On the new, New.

Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

Like, I want to follow the risen Christ around on the new Earth and just watch him love people and engage with people and watch people bow down and worship him. And I want to capture it all.

Whoa, that is.

Wouldn't that be awesome? Yeah, like, I'm all in.

That's what.

That's what I'm praying for right now. All right, Jenna, second of all, rapid fire questions. If we opened up your Amazon order history, what books would we see you giving away over and over and over again to your friends?

Sacredness of secular work and practicing the way.

Good answers. That's a good one, two punch.

All right, who do you want to hear on the podcast?

Okay, so my newest obsession right now, I don't think you know this. Jordan is the wnba. Yeah.

Come on now.

And yes, I did join with so many others in this Caitlin Clark era, but she was then the gateway to learning and discovering all these other women's stories. Anyway, now I'm all in watching the games whenever I can, and I would love to hear some of these young women speak on their faith and how they're handling the pressures of all these new eyes on the sport. And so I think that would be amazing. Like, I think of Caitlin's teammate, Aaliyah Boston. She's very outspoken about her faith. I've loved watching her talk about that in post game press. Another one. She's not technically in the W yet, but she plays for UConn and is supposed to to be the number one draft pick next year. Paige Beckers, very, very strong Christian, very outspoken about her faith. Talks about it pretty much every chance she gets. So, yeah, Anyone from the W? And I know you already had Tamika Catchings, which is amazing.

So, yeah, I love this answer. I'm going to text Tamika as soon as we get off this call and ask for an intro to Aaliyah.

Yeah, she definitely has all of these contacts. Yes.

Oh, she's a legend. Like, she's so. Tamika's so humble. We have Tamika back in the show. She knows everybody in this world. Like, everybody. She's not even, like, officially involved anymore, but she's like, oh, yeah. Like, Caitlin Clark and I were hanging out the other day. I'm like, oh, okay. Of course, of course.

I'm pretty sure I remember Caitlyn saying, like, yeah, Tamika was like her idol. And yeah, yeah, amazing.

I love it. All right, Jenna, you know who you're speaking with, this global audience of your Christians.

What's one thing you want to leave.

Them with before we sign off?

I just want everyone to feel like their work is worship. Like I know so many of you listening know it, you've heard it a lot of times. But I want you to feel this invitation from God to partner with him crazy adventure of renewing the world back to him and bringing little pieces of heaven down to earth through the way we work with excellence and do it with love. And yeah, just be encouraged that we can all be renewing hospitality, loving the other, loving the stranger through the work that we do every day. And if you haven't already, take a look at the the five chapter Gospel and apply that to your work because I think it'll be it'll bring you a lot of freedom.

You are truly exceptional what you do as seen by your meteoric rise in your career. And I just want to thank you for doing it in distinctly God honoring ways, for doing your work with excellence and love for God's glory and the good of others, for leaning into the call to renewal rather than sadly the posture of Ret I see in so many believers and for ensuring that you're doing this work of renewal with God and not just for Him. Hey, where's the best place for people to find you if they want to connect? Is it LinkedIn?

Yeah, I'm on LinkedIn. Jenna C. Barrett yeah, find or hang.

Out with Jen in the Be Christians community. Jenna, thanks for hanging out today.

Thank you Jordan. So fun. Thanks for having me man.

I love that episode. I hope you did too. I also love Jenna's guest recommendations. I thought those were really thoughtful, timely.

If you've got somebody you'd love to.

Nominate for the Mere Christians podcast, let us know@jordanraynor.com contact by the way, we.

Love getting emails from you guys at.

That link of like hey, I just.

Found out that so and so famous.

Person is a believer. Try to get them on.

We've got a lot of people on that way and we just had no idea that they were serious followers of Jesus. So if you know of somebody, high profile or not, who's a serious follower of Jesus and is thinking about how.

To renew creation through their jobs, we.

Want to hear about it.

Guys.

Thank you so much for listening.

I'll see you next week.

Foreign.

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