Jenna Fortier (Student & Founder of PASTA)

The episode you're about to listen to was released back when the Mere Christians podcast was called the Call to Mastery. Now, if you love Mere Christians, you're still going to love these older episodes because the majority of each conversation focuses on how the gospel influences the work of our guests. With that disclaimer out of the way, please enjoy the episode. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Call to Mastery. I'm Jordan Raynor. This is a podcast for Christians who want to do their most exceptional work for the glory of God and the good of others. Each week, I host a conversation with somebody who's following Jesus Christ and also pursuing world class mastery of their craft. We talk about their path to mastery. We talk about their daily habits and how their faith influences their work. Now, you guys know how hard my team and I fight to maintain the integrity of who we deem a master of their craft. But today's guest has demonstrated mastery as an entrepreneur and leader at an entirely different level than anybody else I know at her age. Her name is Jenna Fortier, and she's still in college. She's a rising senior at High Point University in North Carolina. But get this. In the eighth grade, Jenna founded a nonprofit called Peers and Students taking action, or pasta for short. Today, that nonprofit has 30 chapters across the United States and has connected high school students with opportunities to serve and volunteer with more than 6,16,000 elementary school kids across the United States. I was so impressed with Jenna before the call, before this conversation. I was even more impressed afterwards that once we stopped recording, I actually offered her a job right there on the spot. Jenna and I sat down, we talked about her genius habit of emailing God her prayers when she did an internship at Hilton. You're going to love that part of the interview. We talked about why the truth is that you can't be anything you want to be is paradoxically freeing. And we talked about how to use being relatively unknown in your career, especially early on, to your advantage at work. There's so much wisdom from this young woman at such a young age. You guys are going to love and be inspired by this conversation with my friend, Jenna Fortier. Jenna, welcome to the podcast.

Thanks for having me, Jordan.

So months ago, you sent me this unbelievably kind email after reading Called to Create. And my assistant screens all these messages, and so I only see a portion of them, but she forwarded to me and I was reading your story. I'm like, I have to talk to Jenna. And when we got on the phone, I was even more impressed with you. I Basically told you, you have to come work with me. I'm always spotting young talent and offering jobs, but at a minimum, I was like, I have to have Jenna on the podcast. So you are the first active college student on the show, Maybe the last. But welcome to the show.

Thank you so much. Yeah, I'm so excited. It's crazy because I've never emailed an author before. I was like, is this even allowed? I don't know what's happening. But I was so moved by called to create in so many ways. And I was like, I just have to let him know. But when I was emailing you, I was like, wow, maybe like in 20 years he'll call me to be on the podcast. Like, that would be cool. So this is unreal for me.

You know, it's funny, my team and I debated this, right? Because we're very careful who we point to and say they were a master of their craft. And it's hard to call a college student a master of their craft. No offense to you.

It's an offense to understand.

I wouldn't have said that to myself. But my team's case was basically, hey, she is clearly more masterful than anyone else in her stage of her career and she's clearly on the path to mastery and so we should have her. I thought that was really good rationale. So speaking of, you've created this amazing organization called pasta. What is pasta?

Yeah, so PASTA stands for peers and students Taking Action. And it's a completely student led and student run organization. And our mission is kids helping kids in the community. So when I was in eighth grade, I had. So this was about seven years ago now, I realized that service was really becoming nothing more than a box to check and a requirement to fill. Especially with kids applying to college, there's so much pressure to get a ton of community service hours. And I saw them just kind of engaging in things that weren't as meaningful to them. And I saw that as actually a threat to society because this whole generation of kids was now going to grow up not really valuing service for what it was and more as a burden. So I wanted to change that by creating an organization that would bring the meaning back into service. And the way we did that was through expanding the societal boundaries of volunteerism and leading that movement through passion driven and project based service. So kind of what that means is we're organized in chapters and governed by a student board of directors. So when I say student led, I literally mean our board of directors is completely made of high school students. And over the past seven years, we've launched 38 chapters and we encourage all of our members to first identify a problem facing kids in the community and then use their passions and unique giftings to solve that in the form of a project. So an example of that is one chapter was really passionate about music and they discovered that private music lessons are extremely expensive wherever you are. So lower income families couldn't really give those opportunities to their kids. So they started a free summer long guitar lesson program and have been running that for three years now. So this way, I feel like our members in this model are really being encouraged and empowered because they're learning at such a young age how to walk in their giftings and use those to help other people. Which is honestly just what you talk about in both of your books. This idea of using your gifts for the glory of God and the good of others. And although that's my motivation and not particularly the motivation of all of our members, that's kind of my way that I'm bringing them into that storyline.

I love it so much. By the way, you're going to get a lot of job offers after this episode. So. All right, 38 chapters. And it's a chapter on a high school campus, is that right?

So it's actually not affiliated with the school system at all. So when we started my chapter, literally we're just meeting in my basement. And so they're kids from all different high schools. Technically. Right now it's like in the Loudoun county area in Northern Virginia where I am. So it can be kids from different high schools in particular chapters. We started with 12 kids in a chapter and realized very quickly that that is too many and not very efficient. So now it's about 4 to 8 is our sweet spot we're finding. But it's from all over and they're not affiliated with high schools.

But then the chapters are recruiting obviously high school kids to volunteer and create these projects and to serve kids in the community. Right?

Yeah. So it's actually can start as early as. I had a fifth grade chapter that I was mentoring when I was on the board. So all the way from fifth grade to high school students. Because honestly, a big part of PASTA is growing leadership and it's really cool. So every chapter has to be mentored by a pre existing PASTA member because obviously there's no parent leadership. So you can't just bring a bunch of kids together and be like, okay, go off. You're a PASTA chapter now. So they have to be mentored and the mentor has to go through this extensive mentorship training program and get certified and all that. So there's these different levels of leadership that the kids can have. And I mentored a sixth grade chapter. And it's really cool because now that was six years ago. So that chapter that I mentored is now 12th graders. They're still in pasta. And the one girl that was the chapter leader is now the president of the board of directors. So it's kind of cool, like, getting to see and pinpoint the leadership potential six years earlier and then growing them and seeing them mature into what they are today.

That's amazing. And when we spoke by phone a few weeks ago, you mentioned that you basically received, I mean, what's essentially an acquisition offer of pasta, which is weird to talk about in the nonprofit space. Have you made a decision about that?

So we're still talking through the logistics of it. We weren't sure exactly. A lot of people are saying the really cool thing about PASTA is that we're just so unique in the fact that we have very narrow mission and we stick to that. And we almost spend no time fundraising. So we spend probably like 2% of our time fundraising because a lot of our projects are more the kids spending their time and their talents rather than their money. So a lot of our projects don't really cost anything. So the worry we had of merging with another organization was just taking away from how special that was and from being student led and having a student board of directors and all of that. So we're kind of still sifting through all of that to see what is the best step for our future. But, yeah, we're considering it, and it's kind of crazy to think about.

I love. I'm so glad you're learning this at such a young age, but just this lesson of knowing your lane as an organization and just staying laser focused on that thing. I mean, this is what Master of One is all about. And I think that's true of organizations, but also individuals. So speaking of futures, you're a junior in college, is that correct?

Yes.

What's next for you professionally? Right. So you get graduation coming down the pipe in a year. What do you want the rest of your career to look like?

Yeah. So honestly, it's kind of crazy. High Point is doing some pretty cool things in responding to the coronavirus and how that's impacting students.

And real quick, High Point's where you go to school, right?

Yes. High Point University in North Carolina. And they just notified us about this Interesting opportunity. So all these colleges right now are giving refunds because of housing and food that they're not paying for right now. And they're giving students the option to not take that refund, but to come back on campus for an extra year, stay on campus housing, and get a completely free master's program for one year. And all they have to pay for is housing. The tuition is free and it's a master's in communications and leadership. And so I'm in a unique position because I was planning on graduating in December, but I'm actually done with all of my credits and classes and stuff. So I could have graduated right now in May, but I couldn't fathom like graduating a whole year early from college because I love it so much. So I was just going to take some classes that were extra, but I'm thinking about graduating now and then doing that program. So that will be in the future. And then I have had the most amazing internship last summer with Hilton. I worked in their corporate office near D.C. and just fell in love with the hospitality industry and how that really combined my passions for marketing, which is my major, and then also serving others because literally their business model is people serving people. And I just loved it so much. So I would love to work with them in the future. Other than that, I don't really know. I'm keeping an open mind, not trying to put God in a box. And obviously with everything happening right now, it's just reminder that your plans can change so quickly.

Yeah, no, there's a lot of wisdom in that. I never had a five year plan for my career. I think that surprises a lot of people. I'm like, ah, just kind of did what sounded interesting and where I thought I could really express my gifts well in service of others. So for you, whether you lead another venture or nonprofit in the role of a founder or whether you lead a marketing department at Hilton one day, what are some mistakes you think you made with pasta that you're gonna look to avoid in the future?

Hmm. I think honestly, a big mistake going along with that story that I told you before of the chapter that I mentored in sixth grade and then growing up, honestly, when I was mentoring that chapter, I didn't know if they were gonna make it. They just weren't getting it. Didn't understand they're in sixth grade for crying out lack.

How do we come slack?

Yeah, they're in sixth grade. Yeah. So I was just doubting if that was a possibility. And honestly, a big lesson I learned from that was just being patient and waiting and growing them in their leadership because now she's the president of the board. That chapter has produced so many amazing leaders. So I guess just patience. I've learned a ton of patience through leading pasta, and that's been a huge thing also, I think early on, I just had a lot of doubts about the organization. And especially in the beginning, we were trying to do these big things. We had these big dreams and wanted to get into schools and help other nonprofit organizations, and we had these big projects. And honestly, we would get turned down all the time because we didn't have any parent leadership. We were just a bunch of kids, and people didn't trust us, which I understand. But, yeah, that was really hard. And I was like, are we really doing the right thing here? And I think one thing I just learned from that is really just to never underestimate the difference you can make. Because if I had let fear come in and tell me that I wasn't good enough, that these people who I looked up to were turning me down, and I let that overtake me, then nothing would have come of it. But I just felt like that was what I needed to do. I felt like we could just change so much in the community for good. And so a lot of persistence that I learned, too. Those are kind of broad lessons, but.

Yeah, no, that's good. I was just talking with one of my favorite entrepreneurs, this guy named Brett Hagler. We're going to release his episode of the podcast on April 22nd. You gotta make sure you listen to it. It's one of the best ones we've done so far. And he talks about just this idea of dreaming big but starting small, which sounds so simple. But I actually think that's hard to practice, especially when you're leading a new organization. You have these huge dreams, and you think you gotta do it all from day one. It's like, no, just do the next right thing. Take the next action. Start small. Start with one chapter. Conquer your own backyard before you try to conquer the world. You know, you are wise beyond your years. So, hey, you read Master of One, and in that book, you know, I outlined these three lies of career and calling that I think keep a lot of us, especially young people, from focusing on and mastering a particular craft. Right? So to refresh your memory, those lies are, number one, you could be anything you want to be. Number two, you could do everything you want to do. And number three, your happiness is the primary purpose of work. I'm curious, because you're getting A ton of this advice right now, right? You're in college. Like, this is when you hear these lies, which of these lies and the corresponding truths resonated most deeply with you?

Wow. Yeah. I mean, they all did. But I think especially this idea that you can do anything in the world and be anything. And I feel like there's such a narrative around that, especially for young people being in college. It's like you can make the world wherever you want it to be and you can do anything in the world. I grew up kind of believing that because there was such a narrative around it. And I think it's kind of freeing to know that you actually can't. And I think especially like in organizations and in leadership, if you're the CEO or you are leading your team, I think you think that you have to be the best one in the room and you have to be the one that can do everything and anything. And I think that's just really false. And every leader that I've talked to that I really look up to has always told me that it's so important to be self aware of the things that you do really well and the things that are your weaknesses and the things that you're like, hey, I actually can't do that very well. And that's okay because then you can build your team around that and fill in the holes and. And to not be the smartest person in the room, because I think that also just creates this unhealthy level of competition. If you're the leader, you're always trying to compete with the people under you, making sure that you earn the authority that you have. And I just think it's cool to lead with vulnerability and to tell them, hey, this is what I actually am not so good at. But that's why I need you.

There's a great book that I'd love to send to you. By the way. Do you read physical books?

Yes.

Yeah. So shoot me your physical address and I'll send you a copy of this book called Strong and Weak by Andy Crouch. It's this exact idea, right, that great leaders are able to project genuine strength, but also show vulnerability and admit what they're not good at. And it's written by one of my favorite writers through a gospel lens. It's really great. So I want to go back to something you said. This idea of you can't be anything you want to be is freeing because before the book came out, I was speaking at a lot of universities, and that's actually where I initially tested this messaging out. And I remember the first time I did it, I was really afraid of backlash, of me telling college students, hey, you can't actually be anything you want to be. And I was genuinely shocked because in every time I've spoken to college students, they have come up to me after the speech, multiple of them saying the same thing. Hey, thank you for telling me I can't be anything I want to be. This is freeing news. And that was, like, jarring to me. At first, I didn't get it. But as I had more of these conversations, this started to make sense to me. So can you talk about why that's freeing to you personally?

Yeah, I mean, I think there's so much pressure on college students now that they should and have to be good at everything because they have so much time. And this is your time to explore all these different things. And honestly, I point back to. I know you love the book Essentialism. It's one of my favorites. And I think I really used to equate my level of success with the amount of things that I was involved in, because to me, that was my message to the world, that, yeah, I can do anything. Like, I can be in this club and this club, and I can be a leader here and here and here. And actually, that's not really helping anyone. It's just hurting yourself more. And being an essentialist and able to look at a pile of good things and pick out the few really great things is both freeing because you let go of that pressure to have to be good at everything and. And you're just accepting and doubling down on the things that you can do masterfully.

Well, yeah, no, that's so, so, so good. Very, very well said and Master 1. I took on this follow your passion's advice pretty hard, right? Arguing that passion is a byproduct of mastery. It grows in tandem. Passion grows proportionately with competency. You get to love what you do by getting really good at it. How did you react to this argument? I think this is a pretty controversial thing to say. What was your response?

Yeah, I actually loved that, and I think it was the first time I had really heard it before because everyone's like, yeah, follow your passions and do what you love and all that stuff. But if I was super passionate about. I think you used some example close to this, but if I was really passionate about singing, and I'm a terrible singer, by the way, like, that would not bless anybody because I'm not good at it. And that doesn't give anything to the world, it's not going to change anyone's life. And yeah, I thought that that message was actually just really freeing as well, because I think for a while, everybody feels that. They feel like when they're good at something that they fall more in love with it and they become more passionate about it. But I think people honestly tend to feel. I mean, at least in my experience, I almost felt bad about that because if I was talking about it to other people, like, oh, I actually really love this thing, they'd be like, you just love it because you're good at it. And that would just kind of make you feel bad. Almost like, wow, do I only love the things or love the games or what that I feel like I'm best at? And almost like that was wrong to think that way, but I think it was incredibly freeing knowing that that is actually a great way to think about something. And that passion follows mastery. I love that. Yeah.

I think it's rooted in this idea that work is service. I mean, this is what this podcast is all about. If work is about serving others first and then serving our own happiness second, then giftedness trumps passion every time. Or at least pre existing passion, initial passion. We get to love what we do by serving others well and serving our Lord well. And then he invites us to share in his happiness. Right. Graciously. So you mentioned your internship. I want to go back to that. You mentioned this internship at Hilton. I think you've done a couple of internships. And I always tell college students, one of my number one pieces of advice for college students is do as many internships as you possibly can.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah, right. What has surprised you about the value of internships?

Wow. Internships are so important. I think even more important than anything that you'll ever learn in the classroom, because it's application and it's real world, and it was so cool. So last summer I interned at Hilton, and that was my first really big corporate internship where I was working 40 hours a week with everybody else. And I don't know, I think the reason why I love internships so much and why I saw this at Hilton was you literally can just be a sponge and soak in everything that you can. No one has these super high expectations for you because you're an intern. You're not supposed to be at the level that they are. But I am a big learner. I love learning, and it's just the prime opportunity to learn. When I was there last summer, I literally met one on one, probably with 40 people but like, every day I have a one on one with somebody in the company doing something different.

So smart.

Yeah.

Just by your own design. Like, you just reached out to people and like, hey, can I grab coffee?

Yeah. I just emailed them. I was like, hey, you want to grab coffee with me?

Oh, my gosh. You're the female version of me in college. This is me. So when I was at the White House, I did this nonstop. I would see the chief speechwriter. I remember this. I saw the chief speechwriter in the hallway of the White House once. And. And I was like, hey, I think his name is John. I was like, hey, you're John, right? You're the president. Chief chart. He's like, yeah. I was like, can I grab a cup of coffee with you? And just like, pick your brain. You know what I found people like that are unbelievably generous because most of them had somebody else do that with them. Like this guy, he took me to lunch in the White House mess, which is like the super fancy restaurant right outside of the situation room of the White House. It's one of the greatest experiences of my life. Yeah, because just had the audacity to ask. You brought up an advantage of internships. Not just internships, but just placing little bets and humbling yourself to others that I've never really thought of. Especially with the label intern. The expectations are so low for you. You can almost be this, like, covert student. It just be the sponge, like you said. No, I love that. Jenna, it is too early in your career to have really entrenched work routines. But, you know, we talk about routines and habits a lot. I'm curious if you started developing any time management habits that you find particularly effective.

Yeah, I mean, I feel like since coming to college, I've really learned to value my time in the morning a lot. And the first time I realized that, really, because I was not like that in high school. But last summer, my commute to my internship was about 45 to 50 minutes on average. And I was like, oh, man, this is going to be a drag. But I loved my commute. It was time for me to unwind, spend time with God, and. And I'm a very, very structured person. So the rest of my day is literally blocked out by the minute. And so to have that time in the morning to kind of relax and reset myself was perfect. And I just have all these memories of me driving on the highway to work, and I would be listening to podcasts, sermons, and singing at the top of my lungs, and I Would get so pumped for the day. Like, I'm a big Frank Sinatra fan, actually, which is a surprise to most people because I'm so young. I know every word to almost every Frank Sinatra song ever, so I would belt that. And then also, Hamilton gets me pumped like nothing else does.

Oh, man. Let's go down this rabbit hole.

Yeah, let's go down this.

Our listeners are saying, please, no, Jordan, please stop.

That's awesome.

What's your favorite Hamilton song?

Honestly, Wait for it. Pumps me up a lot.

So good.

The election of 1800. Such a pivotal moment.

So good. Such a pivotal moment in the life of our country.

I know.

Crete, you're taking me back to my days of my internships. This is very nostalgic for me. Yeah. I remember when I was in D.C. i was living in Northern Virginia. Where you live.

Yeah.

And commuting to the White House every morning. That was an experience. I mean, it took me an hour or so to get there, and I think I had to be at my desk at 7am or something like that. But I loved it. I loved it. I remember watching Arrested Development on my ipod, the Metro on the way to the White House, and listening to Billy Joel on the way home. So that's great. Hey, so you're at this, like, really exciting time in your career. Obviously, you're ambitious for your career. What drives that ambition for you?

I really think, honestly, it's just I feel like I've been so blessed in my life. So many blessings. I have an incredible family. I have had incredible education growing up, and I really think I've been blessed so I can be a blessing to other people. And that's really just simply what I live by. And any way that I can help others, I try to do that. And I just feel like God has gifted me in so many cool and unique ways, and I should use that. And it's my responsibility to use that to be a blessing to other people.

A lot of people, when they say that I want to be a blessing to other people, I think they're speaking strictly in financial terms.

Right.

I've been blessed with abundance, thus I should give freely of that wealth, which is obviously true. But, I mean, you're talking about skills, right? You're talking about talent and gifting. You see that as an expression of extending blessing. Is that right?

Yeah, definitely.

I love it. How is your faith informing how you think about this next chapter in your career?

Oh, man, I think a lot of ways. I mean, I talked about this to you, Jordan, before, but this has really been a journey for me, because I feel like before I thought. And I don't know if this was the church making me think this way or just me believing this narrative that my faith was supposed to be separate from my work. And I think it was because I believed people saying, the only way to glorify God with your life and your career is to be a missionary and a pastor and all those things. And I thought that these entrepreneurial desires that I had were the same as me pursuing worldly desires as it talks about in the Bible. And I don't know why I believe that because it's so wrong. But I did for the longest time. So I was trying to suppress that. And last summer is when I read Called to Create, which, as you know, changed that whole narrative for me. And I think it was just so freeing to just realize that actually the first characteristic God reveals about himself in the Bible is that he is the creator. He was the first entrepreneur. And when he brought Adam into the picture and asked Adam to name all of these animals and creatures and it would be so, to me, that's such a beautiful illustration of the invitation God gives us to co create alongside of Him. So that switched everything for me. And honestly, last summer during my internship was the first time that I experienced God as my co worker, which was the coolest thing, because I think before, even if I would pray about things of work, it would be like I would go to work and then I would go home and then I would pray about it. But I wanted to see what it would be like to bring him into that process. And I'm totally outing myself here. But what I did was because I was trying to figure out, how do I do this in this big corporate office? I can't necessarily just like pull out my Bible, but I created an email so I could email God my prayers. And so during meetings, if I just got in a project and I didn't know how to handle it, I would email him just like he was my coworker and ask for advice and pray and ask for wisdom and. And it was really cool because at the end of the summer, I got to look back on those emails and the ways that he answered all of those things. And I don't think I've ever really felt divine multiplication as you talk about so often, as I did in that internship.

This is one of my favorite things I've ever heard on this podcast. I love this. What a practical way of quote unquote, bringing God into our work and just being aware of his presence, shooting him an email. What was God's email address?

I have to know.

A God's email address was.

It was jennasworkprayersmail.com that's amazing.

That's amazing. I'm gonna start emailing that email address to me. What in the world is this? I wanna say a couple things in response to your very generous comments. Number one, your former lack of theology of work is not your fault. I think the vast majority of Christ followers around the world just lack a really good understanding of the biblical narrative of work. I think the vast majority of Christians that are way older than you don' these concepts. I didn't get this for such a long time. And when I did, when I understood it, when I read every good endeavor by Tim Keller five, six years ago, however long it's been now, it changed everything because it gave me this like, massive story to live for, to work for. It's why I do what I do today. This is why I'm spending all of my time. I mean, honestly, I don't foresee an end of this work. I think this is the work I'm going to be doing until the day I die. Because I think you got to say this a million different ways for the church to get it. I want to read, not to congratulate myself, but I want to read what you read me because it was so impactful for me. In your first email, you said called to create brought me to tears, realizing that my passion for entrepreneurship was not born from this world, but strategically woven inside of me by the one who called me to create. End quote. And I wanted to read that because one that brought me to tears. When I was prepping for this podcast, I was crying reading over that. And I don't cry that much. And I want our listeners to hear what you said because I actually think you said it better than I can. Right. Our desire for good work, our desire to create has been strategically woven inside of us by the one who has called us to create. So thank you so much for doing that. Hey, I want to go back to pasta for a second. So, yeah, within pasta, you're not preaching the gospel, right?

No.

And yet you very much view that as ministry. Talk about why.

I feel like the whole purpose of it is to teach them how to use their giftings to help other people. And that is such what God calls us into. So that's kind of like I said before, the way that I'm bringing them into that storyline. They all know about my faith. They know that I'm Christian, and whenever the opportunity comes up, I can talk about it. But, yeah, I would think the vast majority of our members are actually non believers. And honestly, it's just so cool to see their transformation. And I can see God working through it. And they might not realize it yet, but I do. Because our whole why is to inspire doers. Because we have a lot of members that come into PASTA for the sole purpose of getting their community service hours. And that's okay because we're trying to inspire them to be doers. And we've seen it work because come senior year, they've already turned in their applications and they're still in PASTA six, seven years later, they're still there. And I think it's God's storyline that's keeping them in it. No other reason that I can think of. And they're just learning how to walk in their giftings. They're learning how to serve others, and that's what it's about. So that's kind of how I'm preaching the gospel in a subtle way to them.

Most people wouldn't say that they are hungry for the Christian message. The gospel is offensive to people. But I think most people hunger for truth. We have to remember that as Christians, we have truth at our disposal every day in the word of God and can impart those principles of truth in our organizations and in our workplaces. Right. And when we do that, whether or not the people that we're surrounding ourselves with know it or not, they're becoming more like him. Right. And that is a good thing because we're creating a greater hunger for truth and goodness that is ultimately found in him alone. Hey, Jenna. So you know the three questions I love to wrap up every conversation with, so I'm sure you're very well prepared. First one, which books do you recommend or gift most frequently to others?

Obviously, I've given Call to Create to so many people, so that would probably be number one. So thank you for that. Essentialism is another big one. I actually forced my friend group to start a book club just so that I could have them read it because I thought that they needed it. And I think every college student needs it, honestly. And if you can learn those fundamentals so early on, I think it just sets you up for success. So that's a big one, too. And then the Go Giver. I love the Go Giver.

That has been recommended, I think, two times on the call to master. I've never read it.

You haven't read it?

No.

Oh, my Gosh it's so great. It's really short. Ready? And it's just this beautiful. I don't know if it's a Christian book or not like, or if he's a Christian, the author, but honestly, I love when that happens, when it's kind of like a Christian book. But they didn't mean for it to be that way.

Oh, yeah. Have you read anything by Jim Collins yet? Good to Great. Built to Last, Great by choice.

Good to Great. Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, Collins has been, like, very transparent about his struggles with faith. And I'm not exactly sure where he is, but you read that book, I'm like, these are gospel principles right here. He's talking about the servant leadership of Jesus Christ. All right, so, by the way, I'm not sure if you've heard this. We just launched a new page on jordanraynor.com well, it's not going to be new by the time people are hearing this episode, but jordanraynor.com bookshelf so we'll put all your book recommendations there. And we now have a leaderboard running of the most frequently recommended books on the Call to Mastery. I think the Go Giver is about to be, like, number two or three on that list. And Essentialism is already on there. So thanks for recommending those who are. Would you most like to hear talk about the intersection of faith and work on this podcast?

Yes. Cheryl Anderson, she is a great family friend of ours and she's a screenwriter in la. And I just think I'm in.

Say no more. I'm in. Yes.

Yes. It is so fascinating to me to be in that industry. And she's one of the strongest people in her faith that I know. And she's writing a Netflix show currently. And everyone always asks her, how can you survive as a Christian in this industry? And her answer is beautiful. She says, I don't know how you could survive without being a Christian in this industry.

That's really good. If you introduce me as Cheryl, we'll have her on the show.

Oh, yeah, definitely.

I'd love to have her. All right, last question. One piece of advice to leave this audience, maybe some young people, maybe old people in this audience who like you are just trying to do their most exceptional work for the glory of God and the good of others.

I think I could speak mostly to a young listener since I am so young.

Let's do that. Yeah.

One thing I would say, because this was so evidenced through pasta, is it is okay to step out without knowing all of the answers because I didn't even know I was starting pasta. I didn't intend for it to be that way. It just kind of, like, happened. And I didn't know how to start a nonprofit. I didn't know how to write bylaws. I mean, I was in eighth grade. I didn't know anything. And I just think that is the beauty of when God calls you, he calls you to trust him. And if we had all the answers, if we had it all figured out, there's no reason to have to rely on him anymore. And so I guess it's just to embrace the unknown rather than be fearful of it, because I just think fear has caused so many great things to not happen. And that's sad to me.

Yeah, no, it's really good. Jenna, I want to commend you for the phenomenal start to your career. Thank you for leaning into God's clear calling on your life to create new things and serve other people through your gifts. Thanks for providing a platform to help teens serve people well, serve kids well in their communities, and thus reveal the sacrificial nature of our Savior Jesus Christ. And thank you for joining us on the podcast. Hey, if you want to connect with Jenna, you can find her. I'm assuming LinkedIn's the best place to connect with you. Is that right, Jenna?

Yep.

Yeah. So LinkedIn.com in Jennac, Fortier, F O R T. And of course, you can find out more about pasta at we are pasta.org Jenna, thanks again for being here.

Thank you so much, Jordan.

Man, I'm glad we took the bet on bringing Jenna onto the podcast. What an unbelievable guest. What incredible wisdom from such a young person. I was telling my wife after the interview was sharing some of Jenna's wisdom with her, just like, how old is this girl? This kid? Just kidding. Jenna, if you're listening now, that was such a great episode. One of my favorites that we've recorded so far. I hope you guys agree. Thank you guys so much for listening to this week's episode. I'll see you next time.