João Branco (CMO of Arcos Dorados)

The episode you're about to listen to was released back when the Mere Christians podcast was called the Call to Mastery. Now, if you love Mere Christians, you're still going to love these older episodes because the majority of each conversation focuses on how the gospel influences the work of our guests. With that disclaimer out of the way, please enjoy the episode. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Call to Mastery. I'm Jordan Raynor. This is a podcast for Christians who want to do their most exceptional work for the glory of God and the good of others. Every week, I host a conversation with a Christian who's pursuing world class mastery of their Christmas craft. We talk about their path to mastery, their daily habits and routines, and how the gospel of Jesus Christ influences their work. Today you're going to meet Joao Bronco. He's the Chief Marketing officer for the world's largest McDonald's franchisee, Arcos Dorados, with more than 2100 McDonald's restaurants and more than 90,000 employees throughout 20 countries in Latin America and the Caribbean. Of course, as always with our guest today, Jo W is not speaking on behalf of Arcos Dorados, but is merely speaking his personal opinions on the intersection of faith and work. But before his current role, Joao was a marketer for brands like Procter and Gamble, Tic Tac, and the favorite of yours truly, Nutella. He's the past president of the Brazilian association of Advertisers. In other words, this guy's an indisputable master of his craft as a marketer. So Joao and I, we recently sat down, we talked about how creating delicious feel good moments at McDonald's connects to God's work in the world. We talked about the simple routine he performs every morning to remind himself of his why before he heads into the office. And we talked about this brilliant practical exercise that he took his team through as they pivoted their marketing plans during the pandemic. You guys are going to love this conversation with my new friend, Joao Branca. Hey, Joao calling in all the way from Brazil. Thank you so much for being here.

Thank you, Jordan. We are far away, but we are nearing the ideas.

Yes, that's exactly right. Amen. That's why I'm excited to talk about this. Hey, so before we talk about your work today, I've got to mention one of your past clients, Nutella. Because I think I'm the biggest Nutella fan in the world. I love it on everything. And I've noticed that Nutella seems to be a much bigger deal in Latin America and European than it is in the United States. Am I reading that right? And if so, what's the reason for this? Why isn't Nutella such a big deal overseas?

Well, you can see how good God can be. You know, I have worked with Nutella now with McDonald's products, so this could be good. Nutella was invented in Italy by a family, so they are really, really strong in Italy, in Germany, and in France. So they were born there. And they are expanding geographically in the last years. So they are still, let's say, starting to be known both in Latin America and in the United States. But they're growing fast because the product is really good.

Oh, the frog's amazing. I had a Nutella beer a year or two ago that was terrific. Maybe a little too sweet, but it was amazing. So, Joel, everyone knows McDonald's, right? But I'm willing to bet that very few of our listeners know Arcos Dorados. Give us a quick overview of Arcos Dorados and the relationship with McDonald's.

Sure. Arcos Dorados is the biggest independent operator of McDonald's globally. It runs the McDonald's business and brand in 20 countries in Latin America. And I'm currently in charge of the McDonald's brand in Brazil, which is one of the top 10 countries globally where McDonald's is present.

I love that. And so what all falls under you in terms of responsibilities as CMO at Arcos Dorados?

Sure. Marketing leads the relationship between the brand and the consumer. Functionally, it means that I run all the campaigns, the pricing strategies, promotions, product development, but also the CRM strategy, the business insights, the studies, and even trade marketing, which are the activities that we do in the field closer to the restaurants. So this is basically the activities of marketing here?

Yeah, that's a lot of responsibility. How big's your team, by the way?

We have a team of around 70 persons, which includes the people that are in the streets running the plants, close to the restaurants, but also the people that are in the office right now. At home office, but in the office, running campaigns and developments of products and studying consumers. But besides that, we also have people at the agencies which are kind of extensions of our teams. Then we can get to more than 100 people in the sum of everything.

Oh, yeah, easily. When you include agencies into the mix. Sorry for the nitty gritty question. I'm just genuinely curious about this. I'm sure McDonald's corporate does some of their own marketing in Latin America, I would imagine. Is that true? And if so, where is the line drawn between McDonald's corporate marketing and your marketing as the franchisee?

No, actually McDonald's is a food company and we really believe that food is pretty much locally influenced. So it's part of the culture. So the way you relate to food and to meals, it's really local. So the way we manage this is that McDonald's global team, they provide to us the essence of the brand. The values, the characters, the things that we should follow. Like the essence of the brand is globally defined. We also have a clear strategy on the menu. So there are core items that could not be touched or changed anyhow, globally. But all the rest we do have the autonomy to create locally. So everything that you see with the McDonald's brand in Brazil or in any other country in the globe, they were actually locally produced and defined, ensuring they are aligned with the global strategy.

That's interesting. So, yeah, so corporate hands down, the logo, the color scheme, the brand guide, photos of a Big Mac and then you guys decide everything else it sounds like.

Exactly.

Yeah. I love it. So, Joel, you're obviously a masterful marketer. We talked about your bio in the introduction. What's the delta? What's the difference between a good and a great marketer? What do great marketers do that their less masterful counterparts don't do?

I would say that marketing professionals, they are known for their capabilities of generating sales. And this would imply into being very creative, good people, engagers, and even great in strategy. But I would say that the best marketing professionals that I know, Jordan, the one thing that they have that really highlights them is the capacity of deeply understanding customers. Needs. It's a very important soft skill, but it makes a lot of difference because somehow it's about being sensitive to the necessity of others. It's about feeling their pains, it's about seeing their challenges. But mainly it's about trying to find the best way to help them. And this is at the core of the marketing work.

What does the McDonald's customer need? On the surface, looks like, you know, they just need lunch. But what's deeper than that? Go a few levels deeper. What does the McDonald's consumer actually need?

I really like to say that we don't see what we sell to customers as just burgers or bread, cheese and meat. You know, in the essence of the brand, the thing that we really believe that the brand is promising and trying to deliver is feel good moments. And we even have a statement for that. We say that we make delicious feel good moments easy for everyone. This is what we offer. These are the needs that we are trying to fulfill the better than any other offer in the market.

I love that we're recording this in February of 2021. We're coming up on one year since the pandemic radically changed our world. I got to imagine it upended a lot of your marketing plans for 2020. So I'm curious, what was your process for navigating your team, your agencies, through that crisis?

Well, the process in 2020 was really stressful. You know, I used to say that we had a plan. We knew how to sell Big Macs before the pandemic. Then we had to throw everything in the trash because it changed everything. No.

Yeah.

The way customers were thinking, were feeling, even their needs were changing. So the way you decide what to eat and where to eat and even when to eat changed during COVID So we basically did a new plan. We pretend to be in a different country. I use it to say that to my team, let's pretend we were transferred to, I don't know, India or other country in the globe. We know our products, we know our experience in our restaurants and our services. But we need to go deeper now on how customers are thinking, what they are needing and how they are feeling. And we need to change everything in our plans to reconnect with them, to show that we can satisfy them as well as we were satisfying before the pandemic right now. And that's when we discover that luckily, we do have very big strengths in our business that address exactly what consumers are feeling and needing right now. So they want contactless service. We do have drive through, we have delivery. They want safety and hygiene. Well, we are known for being very neurotic, I would say, with really high standards of product team and operations. They want good value. We do have products with great value. So everything that were now in the top of their priorities in their decision trees had somehow to do with us, even in the emotional side. Because during the pandemic, customers are also going back to their favorite things. You know, the expression comfort food, which I like a lot, not only means that the taste that you remember from your home, but also it means a food that can hug you somehow in the feelings in the stomach. So the concentration of our sales came directly to the most favorite burgers. We never sold proportionally that much in Big Macs, for example, because of these emotion gaps that are in customers. And all of these remain very important at this moment for us and changing our plans according to it.

So you guys actually saw a spike in the traditional products, in sales of the traditional products during the Pandemic, Is that right? Like Big Macs?

Exactly.

That's so interesting. The psychology behind that.

I love that I would say that that could happen also. I don't know in Spotify or everybody that is offering content to consumers in a moment where you are emotionally under stress, you tend to go back to, to the options with less risk and I would say less risk on the sentimental side, on the feelings side. So you go back to listening to music you love, to ordering the foods you love doing things that you know are under control. And this is exactly what Big Mac is, you know, because it's something that you know exactly how it will be anywhere in the world. So this was a strength for us right now.

That's really smart, really intuitive. We were talking about the pandemic. Fast forward if you can, in your mind. I guess this is kind of your job, right? Three, five years from now, Lord willing. The pandemic is largely controlled due to vaccines. What pandemic induced changes to marketing are gonna stick if you had to predict what changes are really gonna last past the pandemic?

Well, this is the easiest question of all the podcasts, Jordan, because the answer would be, I have no clue.

I don't have an idea.

Actually, what I can say is that customers just lived for months a different life, so they started to order more online, they started to experiment or try contactless payments. They lived for months a different life, so they stopped paying the gym, for example, and they learned there are some things that they can live with and other things that they really like it to enjoy the convenience that they just discovered. So I'm sure that most of these convenience things or these more practical things that they tried will remain. And in our case I'm talking about delivery, about drive thru and about using the app to find promotions, et cetera. But what I don't know is exactly what will change in terms of tastes or exactly what will be the concerns on hygiene three years from now. This will have to learn as times go.

All right, let me ask the question a slightly different way. What consumer marketing trend or trends are you personally most interested in right now? Like what are you really paying attention to?

I'm paying attention to the relationship of consumers with their own values, on the relationship of consumers with their day to day routine. What has changed that will stay and the relationship with food because the way they decide where to eat, when to eat has changed so much that I can't believe it will go back everything to how it was in just a few months. So what is the Root of the change. You know, if they are asking more for food through delivery, what is really changing? Is it changing that they can just not go out of home for a while, or is it changing that they want to have less contact, they have a perception of more safety, they are liking the convenience. What is behind that? So this is what I'm trying to discover and confirm. And this goes back maybe to the core of your question. What has changed is really, it has enhanced the value of a marketeer on deeply understanding customers needs and feelings. Because when needs change, it highlights the importance of a marketeer to understand the needs you understand.

Yeah, no, that's really good. It's about empathy and really asking the deeper questions to understand your. Your customer. Right. We know we have a lot of marketers in this audience, also a lot of entrepreneurs who are oftentimes kind of by default the chief marketing officer of their own companies. And I know a lot of these people struggle with knowing where to allocate their precious marketing resources right when the options are increasingly infinite. So I'm not going to ask you where they should allocate their money, but I am asking you what advice you have for them as they think through the process of where to allocate those limited funds.

Well, maybe I'll be too basic, but I can't avoid that. I would say that the first advice is focus extremely on customers needs. Second thing is try and measure everything. Because every market is different, but the digital and the technology is allowing us to measure almost anything today. So we used it to say in the past that from 100 bucks that you spend in marketing, 50 were going to trash. But we didn't know which half was that. Right now we know everything. So focus on consumers trying to understand to the extreme the journey, the needs, the decisions, the triggers, how your benefits and your products and services can really satisfy those things. And then try to find ways to talk to these consumers and put the money there on the relationship with the consumers. Trying to measure every contact, every message, every effort to see where you get the better returns. This would be basic, but it's valid for any market. Not only mine.

Yeah, no, I think that's right. Hey, Joel, what does your day look like? You've listened to the podcast before. We talk about daily habits and routines. What does a typical day for you look like these days?

Well, this really varies a lot. You know, Jordan, I'm married with an executive as well, and we have two young kids. So we are in that phase. I know you are as well. Yeah, yeah. And we live in Brazil and surely we have a different routine versus an American family. But basically I wake up at around 6am, usually a few minutes before my family. I prepare the kitchen for the breakfast and then I wake up the house. We go into the rush of getting ready to go. I drive the kids to the school and from there I go directly to the company's office. Then I do have, surprisingly to most of the people, 10 minutes break inside my car, inside the garage of the office. And these are my precious 10 minutes where I can try to align the thoughts with God. Either meditating or praying or reading something, but trying to remember why I am working here today, why I'm doing what I do, try to start the day with that focus before going to work. I usually start to work at 8:30, more or less, and I leave the office by 7 or 7:30pm So I spend 10 to 11 hours in the office. And these 10 to 11 hours I usually do three types of work. One third, more or less, I oversee current projects, solving problems of today. Another third, I think about the future and planning the problems of tomorrow. And the other third is about connecting with people, is making alliances, coaching, helping, checking feelings, etc. So this is basically a day at work. When I arrive back at home, it's time to have some minutes with the kids playing or watching something together. Then we split efforts with my wife and we help the kids to get asleep. And by 9pm we do have some time just for the adults. You know, it's time for us to talk, to have dinner and to check the feelings of each other. Usually she goes to bed by 10pm, but I still have one or two hours by myself because I really sleep much less than her. And, and this is the moment of the day where I can write or read or do my things or do extra work if needed. But this is the time where I produce content as well. I do have a focus on writing things as you do about work and faith. I have an Instagram account, I write reading plans for the youversion application of the Bible. And I do like to exchange knowledge about marketing. So my LinkedIn account for example, is pretty much big here in Brazil. So I can use this time to do this work.

I love it. Yeah, your LinkedIn content is terrific and I didn't know you had a youversion plan, so we'll have to get that and make sure my listeners can find that. Hey, so you mentioned that 10 minutes in the car. I love this habit, you know, you pull into the garage at the office take 10 minutes of just quiet solitude to remind yourself of why you work. You know, this show's all about how our faith connects to our work. So what does that look like for you? How does the gospel of Jesus Christ influence the work you do as CMO essentially of McDonald's Latin America?

Sure. You know, that was a question that followed me for years. Before answering that, let me give you a brief story of my life because this will also lead us to this discussion. I was born and grew up in a Christian family that was very active in a church. My father played kind of vocational role, you know, being a volunteer part time minister at the church, but also he kept a regular job in different companies playing administrative functions in different places. And I kind of followed his steps by studying business but also remaining very involved in the activities in the church when I was young, etc. So I do have this history of being raised with both things in mind, of being very active with the faith, but also being very dedicated to work. And somehow throughout the years, God has blessed me in this way of the work. So bigger doors than I was expecting were opened. My effort was somehow rewarded and I got to this position that is in Brazil. Very, very interesting, very visible. It's one of the 20 biggest marketing budgets of the country, for example. But in the middle of this journey, Jordan, I would say that clearly there was a point where I was in doubt if it was enough to please God with my work or if I should dedicate much more efforts in the church area. So I went through this phase where you question yourself if you should stop everything and go back to dedicating time to church and this is what God wants from us.

Yeah, I've been there. I know a lot of our listeners have been there.

Yeah, exactly. Or if it was okay to be a professional. And you know what, when I retire, I do that. And then finally, and I think your book and Timothy Keller's for example, texts and everything helped me a lot. On understand the other point of view on this, on try to see business as my mission, on being the way and the place where my callings could be executed somehow. So when you ask me what is different by being a Christian in your work, I would summarize the answer in just one word. Saying the intention, the intention is what has changed. And this is how I try to see my job. I see my job as much more than selling Big Macs. I see my job as much more than doing great campaigns in the television. I see it as a way to help people get great Moments. And this is a basic need of people and this is something they are asking for God to give them. So I can be really useful to people by doing a great job. I can demonstrate love to people by being a great marketeer that tries to offer to them the best moments as possible in a big chain as McDonald's. So this is the way I see my work today. And this fills me up with meaning in what I do and keep me calm that I don't need to go elsewhere to obey what God asks us to do in love him and love others through your time and through your work and throughout your life.

That is incredibly beautifully said. I couldn't have said it better myself. And I'm just honored that called the Crate play a small part in that story. By the way, you read the book in Portuguese, right?

Yeah, exactly. Actually, I discovered your content through the YouVersion app. And then I was trying to find a book to purchase in Brazil and I found out there was a version in Portuguese. So it was great to see it. I can understand English, but it was easier for me to see in Portuguese. And it is a good suggestion to give others as well.

Yeah, I love that the book's in Portuguese now. We have a huge audience in Brazil. So by the way, if you're listening in Brazil or you speak Portuguese and you live somewhere else, we'll make sure that we put a link to call to create in Portuguese in the show notes. Joao, I love the connection you've made to just providing these feel good moments for people and how that is ministry. The essence of the word ministry is simply service, right? And by you loving your customers through Big Macs, you're serving them the way that you would want to be served. It's an expression of the greatest commandment.

Right?

Have you made that connection in your mind? This connection of selling hamburgers to Jesus's words about the greatest commandments?

Totally. This is the main reason that I'm here. God has asked us only these two things. Love me and love others. And I really want to get to the end of my life with the sensation that I had tried to do that as much as possible. So I mentioned how is my day? And I meant that I spend more than half of my time awakened working. So I don't want to get to the end of my life with a sensation that I try to do that only in the weekends or some days at night. But if I could do that all day long, then I would have tried harder. You know, when I found out that actually I can Try to demonstrate love to God and to others throughout my work with the thing I do, then really a big problem was solved. I'm trying to love others and to honor God every day. When I help an employee serve better the customers, when I create a product that customers will love, when I help the ambient or the environment of the restaurant to be nicer, even when I help that, I don't know that the signal of the WI fi to be better to customers. I'm loving others. So this is why I'm here.

Amen. Very, very beautifully said. I'm curious. So that's good in and of itself, just being a good marketer, right? Serving people more Big Macs. But are there aspects of your job that you think you do differently or that you approach differently because you're a Christian? Does that make sense? Are there certain things that you do as a marketer that are different than how a non Christian would do that same job?

This is an interesting question, Jordan, because somehow it goes into a paradigm that some religious people have. No, it's clear for me that my skills or my knowledge, they're not here because of my faith. Now I believe God has created me with this set of capabilities as he has given to you others and to others. But they would be here anyway, independently of my personal faith.

Yes.

But at the same time, what I do with this can be different according to my faith.

Yes.

And all of the great professionals, somehow they are trying to do their best because they want to be best in class. And probably it means that if I was not Christian, I would really try to be best in class. Literally, I would try to be the number one in the room, cost what it takes. But by being a Christian, my vision on what is to be a master or a best in class is not literally the best in the class or the best in the group, but the best through God's eyes, what he thinks is the best, what he's seen in my job. So when we read in the scriptures that we should work as if it was for God, as if he was my boss, this is what changes. I'm not trying to be the master, the best, the most successful, the one to be in the COVID of the magazine or trying to be richer or trying to be famous. I'm trying to put a smile in God's face. This is what I'm trying to do with my skills and the talents he gave me.

Amen. You know, nowhere in scripture are we called to be the best. I think we are called to the pursuit of mastery, to the pursuit of excellence, but not the attainment of number one in any field. I think God is honored in our striving to bring him pleasure, right? Not to bring pleasure to our own ego. And that's tough in a corporate environment, right? You're competing with other people for market share, for whatever. It can be hard to maintain your sense of identity and realizing that regardless of the results, your status as a child of God is secure. Right? How do you, Joel, how do you remind yourself of that? Like practically, what do you read? What do you pray to remind yourself that God is pleased with you regardless of what you produce at work?

That's why I mentioned all this. 10 minutes break before coming, because I think this is something that I need to remember every day. It is a real threat for any of us that have a position that is recognized in the market to forget that for a while and to enjoy the status or the recognition of the market. But this cannot be something that blocks us from the relationship with God. We need to remember every day I am not anything. I'm just staying in a chair that was given by God for some reason and for a time. So I try to remember every day I'm in this position because God allowed me to be here. God wanted me to be here for some reason, for some time. May God help me to use this opportunity the best way possible. Because this is a gift that he has given to me. This is an opportunity that he has given to nobody else, only to me. And this is valid for anybody, independently of the position. If you are high or low or to the side or to the other, God has put you where you are. And he's allowing you and me to do the best possible in our position, to love him and to love others. And this is what I try to remember every day. To use the best way possible, this opportunity.

Amen. We never get over the gospel. We never get over preaching the gospel to ourselves. It is a daily discipline. So, Joao, you've listened to the podcast before. You know, we wrap up every conversation with three quick questions. First, I'm curious which books you tend to recommend or give away most frequently to others.

I need to start with the book. It has a different name here, but it's the same meaning and same content. So it was really the first one that touched me. No, I really liked your book on the call to create here in Brazil. It's called Shamados Parakriar. And the third advice that I would give or piece of content that I like a lot is a simple one. But There is a reading plan at the YouVersion app called the Discovery exploring God's call on your life that I really recommend to friends which are questioning themselves about the call of God and how to deal with that.

Those are terrific recommendations. And for you guys listening, you can find those books as always@jordanraindor.com bookshelf who would you most like to hear on this podcast talking about how their faith influences their work?

Well, I'm from Brazil, so I have different references in life, you know, so.

Of course, yeah, no, but I love.

That the persons I'll mention here, maybe you have never heard about them. But let me tell you something that is different here. Now, I would love to hear the perspective of a wife or a husband of a very important person. This is a detail that few people notice. But for example, and let me drink high here, I watched Netflix series recently about Michelle Obama or Melinda Gates and I see tremendous opportunities they have in their hands. You may like or not Barack Obama, you may like or not Bill Gates, but they're really powerful men and they have strong partners. How do they see their roles? I would love to see a content like this.

That's a terrific answer. It's one of the more thoughtful answers I've ever heard of that question. Joel, one piece of advice to leave this audience with this audience who you know, some of them are marketers, some of them are writers, sales executives, entrepreneurs, janitors, whatever. What they share is a love of Jesus and a desire to do great work for the glory of God and the good of others. What single piece of advice do you want to leave them with?

Well, it looks to me that you, you're asking for a piece of advice to a person that is trying hard to be a better professional for the glory of God. So I would remember this person that mastery is not the end objective. It means to an end. So try hard, do your best, get the best education, do your best, get the best context. But always keep in mind the right intention, the right focus, the right perspective, which is the perspective of God, not yours. So try to see your work through God's eyes, not yours.

Amen. Well said, Joe. I want to commend you for the exceptional, eternally significant work you do every day just serving people really well and creating these moments of joy for them. Thank you for thinking about marketing differently because of your apprenticeship to Jesus Christ. And yeah, and thank you for joining us here on the call to mastery. This is a true joy.

Well, thank you for the invitation, Jordan. And I hope somehow God has spoken some words today, even in Portuguese accent.

With very good English, I might add.

Thank you.

I hope you guys loved that episode. Hey, if you're enjoying the Call to Mastery, do me a favor. Take 30 seconds right now. Go leave a review of the podcast on Apple Podcasts. Thank you guys so much for tuning into the Call to Mastery. I'll see you next week.