Kevin Olusola (Member of Pentatonix)

Hey friend. Welcome to the Mere Christians podcast. I'm Jordan Raynor. How does the gospel influence the work of mere Christians? Those of us who aren't pastors or religious professionals, but who work as mediators, hairdressers and dental assistants. That's the question we explore every week. And today I'm posing it to Kevin Olusola, the three time Grammy winning beatboxer and and member of Pentatonix, the wildly successful acapella group that has been streamed almost 5 billion with a B times on YouTube. Kevin is an artist in his own right with wildly successful YouTube channels and a brand new debut solo album. Kevin and I had a great conversation recently where we talked about why Genesis shows us that creativity is our birthright as human beings.

We.

We talked about how fame has changed Kevin's prayer life. And we talked about why Kevin doesn't want to be a superstar, but a super planet that reflects God's light to others. Trust me, you are not going to want to miss this terrific episode with my new friend, Kevin Olusola. Kevin, welcome to the Mere Christians podcast, man.

Thank you so much. I am so thankful that I get to do this with you all today. This is such a pleasure of my heart.

Oh, come on, tell me why, Tell me why do you not get to talk about your faith in your work that much?

Well, I do, but the thing that I think is important for me is that I've now been in a space after having kind of gone through figuring out my identity, especially as not just a Christian, but as just a person. I feel like now the confluence makes everything I do that much more valuable, that much more worth it. And I can not only say I'm a son of God, but that I actually love the person that God made.

Was that a process for you? Did that take time to get to that point of loving the person God had made?

Absolutely. I mean, when I came into the industry, I was extremely confused because, you know, I knew this was something that God had called me into, but I didn't understand why. And so coming into the industry and starting to go through this process of self discovery, I think that paralleled also my artistic journey as well. So I'm writing songs, trying to understand self. I'm also talking to God, going through kind of just this metamorphosis. And when I finally realized that the goal that God had for me, which is to amalgamate all the things that make me weird, quirky, unique, and emit a frequency of love that comes from how God made me, and hopefully that translates into somebody else hearing that frequency and them rising up to who God called them to be. Then I felt so clear about purpose. I felt so just loved because I'm doing it from the well that God made in me. And so it just, it's made now making music and art just that much, that much richer. And I'm thankful for it.

Because you're doing it from that deep well of love. Right. Like you understand that you're loved by the Father. So you're not making music in order to earn love. You're doing it from a deep reservoir love that have from God. Does that make sense?

That's exactly it. I'm doing it from a deep repositor of just loving God. But also again, because I understand how God made me and therefore I can love myself. I can do it with a fullness and a joy. And now, as you said, I'm not doing it to prove anything. I'm doing it to reflect love, reflect life. Regardless of what the accolades that come, that's a very world centered view. I'm here for Kingdom. And so it just, it makes it, it makes serving Kingdom that much richer. When you know who so good, man, you're loved and how God made you.

Specifically to be, that's so good, dude, I love it. And by the way, like, I think people could feel that love in your music even when you're not being terribly direct about it. Right. I mean, it's, you know, it's easy to see you're being explicit about the Lord's name when you're singing pentatonix Christmas songs about Christ, the newborn King. But most of your view, a lot of your music is wordless. Right. This new album, I haven't heard it in full, but I'm going to assume isn't overtly evangelical. And I love that talk about why you believe your heavenly Father delights in all of the art that you're creating, Kevin.

I mean, first and foremost, you know, Rick Rubin kind of talked about this in terms of creativity. He talked about creativity being our birthright. Yeah. If you understand that you are made by a Creator and that we are made in his image, then this creativity is my birthright, given to me by the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords.

Amen. And the first thing God called you to do in Genesis 1, create in his image.

Create. Exactly. So I can only do that if I am aligned to God. So that now, if I'm aligned to him and I know who he is now, everything that I do comes from that space. Whether I am saying the name of Jesus or not, it is coming from that space. And my hope is that even if I spoke about loving my wife or loving a girl or other ideas or other issues, everything I'm thinking about, everything that I am doing is coming from that space of who God is. So hopefully, it continuously translates that love in a way that hopefully the person that's listening to it, even if they don't know the name of Jesus, they may understand what I'm trying to say from a deeper resonance, meeting them where they are. And so, yeah, man, it's about meeting people where they are in a lot of ways, too.

That's right, man. Even songs without words could do it. Do you know that old Leonard Bernstein quote, what he said about Beethoven's fifth?

Wait, what?

Okay, he said, quote, I got here listening to Beethoven's fifth, and by the way, Bernstein was not a believer. Or he said, but listening to Beethoven's fifth, you get the feeling there's something right in the world, something that checks throughout, something that follows its own laws consistently, something we can trust and that will never let us down. End quote. He's talking about God. He's saying that the power of exceptional music is that it can scratch off a glimpse of God, even if people can't articulate the name of God as Jesus Christ. When I listen to you play the cello, that's how I feel. That's how I feel, bro.

Goodness, you have no idea how much that means. And I truly. I don't take that lightly because it's been my whole goal. Even as I was figuring myself out, that has been the goal. How does that. That frequency in my cello, that's coming from who I am. How does it touch people in a way where they say, this feels complete, this feels whole? I don't maybe know why, but I know that I'm feeling that and that it opens them up to be interested in the love of Jesus Christ.

Yeah, man. Oh, man. So good. It's so good. All right. Hey, we've been talking a little bit about how God delights in what you do. Let's talk about how your faith influences how you do the work. When you think about that, how do you think your faith most significantly shapes how you go about creating the art? What's different about how you create the art versus a non Christian artist?

That's a great question. I think the first thing that I'm thinking about, again, we just talked about this piece of a. Right. I think for. And this is my personal opinion, I think to optimize the art that you're trying to make, to optimize how God has called you to create. You have to be aligned to the father. Because I think a lot of people like you think about like an iPhone, right? The first thing I normally do when I get a new iPhone is just use it. But if I'm going to get the most out of this iPhone and its functionality, I probably should read the manual. I probably should go and see how the manufacturer of the iPhone meant for it to be because he's the creator of it, so that I can understand its functionalities and get the most out of it. I think that's the first thing I think about when I'm going through the process of art. I go, I'm smothered in prayer. I'm smothered in Bible study first for me, so that I can really do art in a way that it feels aligned, right. The second thing is constantly looking at life as an opportunity for a creative spark, right? Whether that's a conversation with a friend, whether it's a conversation with my wife, going through again my identity as a person, right? I'm a Afro Caribbean man who was born in California but raised in Kentucky, right. That provides so much fodder for me because a lot of the culture that God put me in as an African and a Caribbean person, it's the lens of which I look at a lot of life and I think that's actually beautiful because now, hopefully when I make music and I make art from that space, there are other people who may not know Jesus, but they have a similar connectivity, whether they're a third culture kid, or maybe they're a kid coming from a completely different country. They're a first gen kid, an immigrant kid. And hopefully my story opens them up to who Jesus is, because I'm coming from those specific stories that I understand, right. I was talking to somebody recently about like, I don't think I could make a great. Well, you know, I can't say never, but I don't know how to make a love song because I feel like every love song you could ever write has been written. That's what Normally it's all been done. It's all been done. But I can say, you know what? I wish I could marry you, but I'm not sure if my parents are going to accept you. Yeah, that's something that comes from like a cultural standpoint that I can speak from, right? So I think taking from a lot of my cultural background, I think has been really, really Helpful. The last thing for me, having a time in the day, each day where I create. And the reason I say that is that I think there's this regularity and this familiarity that comes into making art, that when I know I'm coming into this space, I have a clarity about it. I have a reason to. Why I'm trying to meet God specifically in this space. It's like, you know, when you're doing your morning worship, like you're meeting God at a specific place at a certain time because you want to connect with the king before you do anything else. I think that's the same thing with me and art. I don't do it at random times of the day. I may collect the thoughts and the sparks that I get throughout the day, but then to actually make it, there's something about that regularity for me that is really, really helpful.

Great artists act like accountants, right? They show up and do the work. Yeah. Specific times, dude, I get it.

Good.

I totally get it. Hey. Your star has, like, just gone through the roof over the last few years, man. With all the success Pentatonix has had, this new debut album is going to put you in a different stratosphere. I'm curious, what's been the biggest spiritual challenge that has come with fame, right? Like, how have your prayers. Maybe to ask it a little bit more concretely, like, how have your prayers changed as your platform has increased?

That's a very good question. You know, again, when I came into music because I was confused about why I'm here, I was here. I did a lot of research, if you will, seeing how my bands were interacting with fame, seeing how other friends in the industry or other people I admired were interacting with fame, because I didn't necessarily know how to deal with it or handle it. But then I think as I started to sift out what I liked and what I didn't like, it started to paint a picture of who I wanted to be as the fame accumulated, which is, I don't want to be a person that absorbs glory because I don't think we were ever meant to absorb glory as humans. We were always meant to reflect. I don't like the word, for example, superstar, anymore. The reason why is because a star, I think that's about absorbing the love and gaze of the audience for yourself. What a planet does is it reflects light, right? It reflects. So I always say it's a weird word, but I want to be a super planet. I want to be somebody that takes all the light from God and Reflect it onto the audience. Because now I'm in line with what God does, which is serve. For God so loved the world that he gave. He served, he sacrificed. And I want my music and my artistry now to be a sacrifice. And so my prayers now have been. Lord, even in making this album, how do I serve and sacrifice in a way that honors you and is aligned to who you truly are so that people see that not only do I love them, but I care for them like you care for them too. That's been my biggest prayer.

I heard you say once you like to think of yourself. You want to be a service oriented human like Christ. How did that play into the making of this debut solo album, dawn of a Misfit? How did you approach creating this album in a service oriented way with an obsession of others rather than self?

It was in every aspect, I think I thought about it, that I wanted to make sure that I'm not only, you know, serving myself and healing myself with this art. Because this album was a personal love letter to me and my younger self who had been bullied for not being black enough, not being too black for certain white kids, not being African enough, Caribbean enough, academic enough, cultural enough. Right. It was a love letter to myself knowing that, hey, the things that made you feel like you didn't fit in and you were counted out for are the things that God was actually raising in you as a testimony to tell other people that their uniqueness is their superpower. So that was the first thing that was healing with me talking to my younger self. The second thing I thought about in terms of service orientedness is the audience I was speaking. But I started to get super clear about who I wanted to speak to. And why do these stories that I'm saying matter? Because I want the greatest ROI on every single lyric, every single note, every single sonic that it's really hitting people in a way that. Or my audience in a way that they would really get it and it would resonate with them. And I feel like I've seen that in some of the YouTube videos and the comments where they say, this has been deeply healing. And I feel you and your vulnerability has really touched me in a way that I needed. And then the third part I thought about when it comes to service is the people I'm working with. My prayer has been that this is not something that only, you know, obviously uplifts my career, sure. But also uplifts the careers of those I'm working with. So, Lord, I want to pray that the people you've called in this space. They were sent to me, as I was also sent to them, so that we make art, that people will see the beauty and the magnificence in them and that other people would not only want to work with them, but they feel like they've reached a higher plane by working with me as well. That's how I feel about, like, Joseph in the Bible or obviously Jesus. Like, I feel like when they did their work, there was an excellent spirit. Right. As Daniel said, there's an excellent spirit about them. And so I pray that that excellent spirit rubs off on those that I work with so that they can grow in their careers and in their faith.

Yeah, it's that. It's that excellent spirit, but also that others obsession. I know you're a big fan of Quincy Jones, by the way. My daughters are freaking out that I'm talking to you today. We love watching your stuff on YouTube. I love that you've got one daughter.

I have one daughter and one son.

Okay. Are they're not old enough to appreciate how freaking cool it is that Quincy Jones picked you to perform in 2012? Are they. Do they get this? Have you told this story to them yet?

No, they don't fully grasp that. You know, the coolest thing that I've ever done for my daughter was to be on Ms. Rachel. That's the coolest thing I have ever.

That's amazing. You tell your Quincy Jones story, and then I'm going to tell my Quincy Jones story that relates to service. So what's the quick version of this 2012 interaction with Quincy?

Oh, wow. I can't wait to hear yours. That's a really, really.

It's not personal. I've just read about it, to be clear still.

Well, so. So mine is. I literally woke up one day in 12. You know, we were in our new apartment. It's like February just won the sing off trying to get acclimated to Los Angeles. And I prayed that morning, did my normal worship. And then I checked Twitter and I noticed that quincy Jones had DM'd me.

I'm like, oh, my gosh. And you thought this was a fake account?

I thought it was fake, but then.

No way it's real.

But it said, hey, I love what you're doing. I see you. I'd love for you to come over to my house. Please email this person, you know, one of the executives under his. Under his management, and let's get that figured out. I was like, whoa, this is unbelievable. So I went over to his house. I Played my cello for him. Cause I brought it. And then we just spent a few hours together. And he was telling me about the beauty of music. He was really schooling me in a deep level. Like showing me videos of him working in the studio with like, with Michael Jackson and others. And just. I was so touched that he would spend time with truly little old me. I'm nothing, especially in the industry at that time. And he asked me after that hangout session to open for Chick corea and Bobby McFerrin at the 2012 Montreux Jazz Festival.

Unbelievable.

It was such an amazing experience. And I remember being on stage before I performed it, I was shaking, I was nervous. But he said something to me that, that still resonates today. He said, hey, just go out there and play. I chose you because you're you. I was like, I chose you just cause you're you. And I realized in that moment, all the comparison, all the judgment that I have of myself, he didn't see that. He saw an individual with their own beauty. And he just wanted me to tap into what makes me me. To express myself to this world of this audience. And so it's. It definitely helps me, as I continue to. To make art, that I'm not going to be here comparing myself to others. Just do what I do best.

I chose you because you're you.

Yeah.

I mean, what a. What a beautiful and perfect picture of the heavenly Father's love of us. It's so good. I was reading Quincy's book, the last book. He wrote 12 notes. Did you read this?

I did not read it, man.

I'll send you a copy. It's so good, so good. His like 12 notes on creativity. It was really great. And the foreword was by Abel Tasfai. The Weekend. The Weekend. Y. Yeah. And he tells this great story about Quincy Jones. He said Quincy was waiting for him off stage at a show and the weekend comes. Yeah, I know. The week he comes on stage just like freaking out. He's like, oh my gosh, Quincy Jones is like waiting here for my show. So of course he comes right off stage, goes straight to Quincy. And Quincy said, hey, go to your fans, ignore me. Take pictures, sign autographs with them. I'll still be here waiting for you afterwards. They're way more important than me. I love that. Like, he's like the ultimate vip. He's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Ignore me. Go serve, serve, serve those that came to hear you. I love that story.

That's unbelievable.

I gotta send you the book. It's a really good book. Please, Kevin, four questions I ask every guest to wrap up each show real quick. Number one, Scripture makes it really clear that we are going to work on the new earth forever free from the curse of sin. Isaiah 65 says, we'll long enjoy the work of our hands. What work would you love for God to give you on the new Earth? You want to keep playing the cello?

You want to keep.

What do you want to do?

You know what? That's a really good question. I would love to continue. If there's work like this, I want to continue learning about the depths of the art that he created in me. I really, really do. But also there's the scientific part of my brain, having been pre med at Yale, that I go, I would love to just study, like, how he had thought about designing the body. Like the true intricacies or like the truest. Like, you know, because we're gonna have these new bodies. And I go, God, like, how did you think about it? Like. Or like the, you know, going to all these different worlds and understanding the science and the creativity of the creator, like, that would be so unbelievably fun. That's probably what I'd probably want to do. Like be like a scientist, researcher, and a. And an artist at the same time.

Well, we're going to have billions a year, so I think you could do it all, man.

Exactly.

I don't know. I think you're good. I think you're good. Kevin, if we opened up your Amazon order history, which books would we see you buying over and over and over to give away to friends?

Oh, give away to friends. Oh, man, it would be high performance books for sure. Because I feel like I have this really great group of friends that are all trying to grow. They're very growth mindset people. And I think to be able to give them things that have been building me up and serving me so I can be my best on a daily basis. It's my favorite thing to do.

What's one of those books for you?

Oh, High Performance Habits by Brendon Burchard. I actually went through his high performance coaching program in 2021, and it completely changed my life, especially as I was trying to become a father. It was truly revolutionary for me.

Hey, who would you want to hear on this podcast talking about how their faith shapes the work they do in the world?

Steph Curry.

That's a great. Oh, man, I don't think I've ever heard Steph Curry as an answer to that question that's a great answer to that question. I love that. All right, Kevin, you're talking to this global audience of believers doing a bunch of different things vocationally. What's one thing you want to say to them before we sign off?

Oh, that's a great question.

No, it's not. It's. It's an impossible question.

No, no, no. What I would say is, again, this is the thing I feel like I figured out myself. Like, love yourself because God loves you, so he gives you permission to enjoy the person you are. Like, we understand that we have sin. Yes, I fully get that. I understand we're in the process of sanctification, but he actually likes you. He actually enjoys you like a father enjoys a son or a daughter. So remember that if you can know that he enjoys you, that means I can enjoy myself. Like, truly love myself.

That's really good, bro. Hey, I want to commend you, Kevin, for the exceptional work you're doing for. For being a super planet that reflects the glory of God and spills it out in service of others, man. Thank you for the reminder of the love that we have in the Father and that creativity is our birthright. See Genesis 1. I can't wait to stream this album in full. Hey, dawn of a Misfit. It drops when?

May 9th.

May 9th. Perfect. Where do we need to go to listen to it? Where do you want us to go to listen to it?

Anywhere that you listen to music, whether it's Spotify, Amazon, and just a quick tidbit on the album. Again, I made this album where I know I'm weird. I love classical music, but I always wanted to do classical music in a way that felt a bit modern, that felt like it was relevant for the times today. But also tell my story as a first gen person in a western country, and I'm excited to show that juxtaposition. I'm excited for people to hear the classics that they probably know, but in a completely different, different way with 808s and beats and a swagger to it that I think they might not have heard before, and that's exciting to me. So I'm excited for those to listen to this album.

Well, I've listened to the few tracks that are already up on Spotify and I freaking love it. I can't wait to listen to the whole thing. Kevin, thanks for hanging with us today.

Absolutely. Thank you so much, man.

I hope you guys enjoyed that episode as much as I did. Hey, if you did, do me a favor and go leave a review of the Mere Christians Podcast on Apple, Spotify, wherever. You're listening right now. Thank you guys so much for listening. I'll see you next week.