Laura and Jason van Dyk (Founders of God's fingerprints)

The episode you're about to listen to was released back when the Mere Christians podcast was called the Call to Mastery. Now, if you love Mere Christians, you're still going to love these older episodes because the majority of each conversation focuses on how the gospel influences the work of our guests. With that disclaimer out of the way, please enjoy the episode.

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Hey everybody. Welcome to the Call to Mastery. I'm Jordan Raynor. This is a podcast for Christians who want to do their most exceptional work for the glory of God and the good of others. Each week I host a conversation with a Christian who's pursuing world class mastery of their craft. We talk about their path to mastery, their daily habits, and how the gospel of Jesus Christ influences their work. Today I'm joined by my friends Laura and Jason Van Dyke. They're exceptional artists and the co founders of God's Fingerprints, which offers an exceptional alternative to, let's face it, really kitschy Christian scripture art. They built a thriving business shipping thousands of prints to more than 40 different countries. Laura and Jason and I recently sat down to talk about why they felt called to grow slower than they could. We talked about their terrific example of how the gospel compels us to take pains to do what is right. See 2 Corinthians 8, 21. And we talked about the problem with our limited view of what constitutes a evangelism and what that means for our work. I think you guys are going to love this conversation with Laura and Jason Van Dyke. Laura and Jason, welcome to the podcast, episode 150. That's a big deal, right? Welcome you guys.

Thank you, thank you.

It's great to be here.

Yes.

So, Jason, I sent Florence, your baby girl, a copy of the Creator in you. Did she get it? Has she read the book? How old is she? Like nine months? A year?

She's just over a year old. About 14.

A one year old. Appreciate the Creator in you. I don't think so.

We have been through it a few times. It's not her favorite at this point.

Write that in the Amazon review. Not for one year old, but hey.

A little above her level at this point.

That's right, that's right, that's right.

There's something of curiosity though.

Yeah, good, that's good, that's good. Hey, so as I understand it, both of you guys came to Faith in Christ later in life, right? And Jason, how did that happen for you? I've known you for years, but I actually don't know this story.

Yeah, well, I did not grow up in a Christian home. With any sort of faith in my life at all. And when I was in college, my parents moved to the United States and they became Christians. And I was not sure how to feel about that. I was very concerned for them that they had become Christians and was a little confused. But my mom was pretty persistent in her evangelism and just really sharing her faith with me. I remember one time we were on this call, and she asked me where I would go if I were to die, which was a pretty direct question. And I said, like most people, oh, yeah, I'm a good person. I'm going to go to heaven. And I remember. I still remember her voice like she was. There was such concern in her voice where she was saying, I don't know, Jason. I don't know. And that really stuck with me. And a little after that, we went or I went down there for Christmas and they gave me a Bible for Christmas present. At first I was like, okay, it's a Bible. Thanks a lot.

Would have much rather had a gift card. Thanks, Mom. Yeah.

But curiosity got the best of me and I started reading the Bible. Started reading it. And it was not, especially once I jumped ahead to the New Testament, it wasn't what I thought it was. And I was very captivated by the words of Jesus. And just really, I had this image in my mind of Jesus, this very, you know, kind of effeminate guy holding a lamb. Maybe some image I had seen when I was younger. But when I was reading scripture, it was nothing like that. He was someone who. His words had weight, you know, the way that he spoke, had authority. And he was somebody that I could see myself following. And during this time, I was very far from God. I was involved in, you know, drugs and alcohol and all sorts of things that were not pleasing to God. But the more that I was reading scripture, the more that it was. I was just drawn by this person of Jesus. And so I eventually decided to go out to a church just to learn more. And once I went there, I was reached out to by some guys who started studying the Bible with me. And this is a course of about a year where I would go and study the Bible with these guys as I was continuing to try to understand what it meant to follow Jesus. And eventually, the more that I read scripture, the more I saw that this was true. And I came to a point where I had to make a decision. If I knew that this was true, what was I going to do about. Was around that time that I decided to commit my life to Christ. And it was a pretty radical change in my life because the way I was living was very different than what Christ was calling me to. And he really took a hold of me and transformed my heart from the inside out.

Wow. I love that. I never knew a story. It's beautiful. Jason. Laura, you've been a designer for a long time. You've been a creative. God's wired you to be creative clearly from an early age. I know a lot of people who say that it was art in general, or even specific pieces of art, a novel, a movie, a painting, whatever, that awakened their desire for something eternal for God. Is that a part of your story? I'm curious.

Well, I mean, I think that art has always been a part of my story, but in terms of awakening me to something bigger than myself, that's something I've always had a sense of ever since I was little, apart from art, where I would often, you know, even at 6 or 7, I would wonder what happens when I die? What happens when my parents die? Are they going to be. Is their spirit going to live on or. So I've always had those questions, But I didn't come to faith until I was in college. And art played a part in that, in the sense that I, I wonder how my art would be, will look like now that I found Jesus, you know, in college. And what, how, how this art and faith combine in this new way as God has changed the way that I look at the world and look at myself. So naturally my art would also change as a result of that.

How did the art change? Because, I mean, you know, fast forward, you guys are running God's fingerprints now, which is explicitly painting art around scripture. But before God's fingerprints, how did the gospel shape how you did your work as an artist prior to this explicit brand?

Yeah, that's a good question. I think for me, before, it was very much informed by what is accepted in the art community, what is important, what are the things that are that people are looking for. I think for me at least, it was important to understand what, what the art community is looking for at the moment. And in the midst of that, trying to figure out my unique identity as an artist and my role in creating art that speaks to the people, but also that is, I guess, relevant to the time. But there was always a sense of conflict in the sense that as I was trying to figure out what my identity was as an artist, but then also having these bigger questions around faith and spirituality and because art very much is an extension of what you believe and how you See the world. So I think for me, as I was trying to grow as an artist, there was a lot of questions around how, how do I want to. How do I want to grow as an artist? And how, what kind of work do I want to put out into the world?

Yeah, for sure. Jason, bring us up to present day, kind of. What, what's the origin of God's Fingerprints? How did you guys get into launching this brand?

Yeah, so I would say the origin starts even before we met each other. We were both creating scripture art in our free time, both of us coming to Faith later in life. And we had a love for scripture and had a love for art, and so we were individually creating artwork that was inspired by scripture and God orchestrated it so that Laura and I met at a course in New York City. And once we started seeing that we were both creating the scripture art individually, I think we naturally hit it off. And long story short, we were married not that long afterwards. And so we had this shared passion. And after we got married, we kind of had our individual projects. We decided to bring them together into the same project which, which we called God's Fingerprints. When we first started God's Fingerprints, it was something that we were doing in our spare time. We were creating artwork, just sharing it on Instagram just because we were really passionate about it. Laura was working as a full time graphic designer, I was working at a, at a homeless shelter. And we were both pretty happy doing those things. But when we had that free time, we would be sharing more artwork on Instagram. And, and the more that we shared, the more, you know, people started asking for prints, seeing if they could get prints of that we were making for their home. And so it sparked some conversations with Laura and I, if that's something that we would be able to do. And so we looked into building a website and we launched, I think our first website in 2016. And that was just, you know, to basically, you know, people were asking for prints and we just wanted to be able to offer that to people. And we launched that in 2016. We continued to work our full time jobs and. But the business continued to grow on the side. And eventually there came a point where we were praying about it and just felt that God was leading us to invest more full time into this. And we were kind of praying about it, not sure. And it was around that time that I actually got laid off from my job, which was very unexpected. But immediately I thought, I wonder what God's doing through this? And so we felt that was the catalyst that was the opportunity for me to, all right, let's try to do this full time, see if we can actually make it work. And so Laura was basically supporting us through her graphic design as I tried to go full time in God's Fingerprints and see if we could actually make it something more sustainable. And God really blessed our efforts. And by that first year, I was able to go full time. And then shortly after, Laura was then able to come on full time. And so now we have. Both of us are doing God's Fingerprints as our main gig, and we have a small team as well. So, yeah, we didn't expect to be doing this, and we just feel that we trying our best to just follow the Spirit. And we've been amazed at where God has led us.

I love it. You guys are shipping art all over the world, which is incredible. You guys are having a huge impact. It's crystal clear to me, to our audience, how the gospel shapes what you guys do. Right. It's art based around scripture. Right. But I do want to dig into how your faith shapes how you to do this work and run this business. Right. Laura, I know the two of you decided in the last year or so to be really intentional about growing slower than you can in order to, in the words of Dallas Willard, ruthlessly eliminate hurry from your lives. Talk for a minute about this conviction and what. What brought you guys to this decision.

Yeah, it's something that we've often talked about in our. Within our relationship, even I think in our marriage and the way we do life, we've always gravitated toward the idea of minimalism. And I think that very much is fueled by the desire to do things slower and to be more intentional and to allow the essential things that we value to be the things that take centerpiece and that thrive. And so within our business, we realize that we desire the same with how we go about the business. And as being Christians, that's something that we feel passionate about, because as we learn more about the way that Jesus did life on earth and the way that he was very intentional about focusing on what is essential. And those are relationships. Those are things that the way that he values doing things in a way that honors God at a pace that is not rushed, that's not hurried, and verses that talk about working with your hands and being content. And I think we felt inspired very much to be able to apply those same concepts, those same principles to our business and see what that looks like, because it is scary to go slower, to go smaller, to be able to do things in a way that almost feels countercultural and even against the advice of marketers or you know, things that are very much strategies that help business grow. And so there's very much that element of trusting that God's way is going to be something that we can trust that he. He can lead us in that process as we, as we strive to honor him in the way that we go slow with our business and do things smaller and value excellence, value our customers and paying attention to how we. The quality of work that we produce. And also just being able to focus more on creating art has been also very life giving to us because that was why we started the business in the first place, which is to be able to use our time, a big amount of time, pouring into art and creativity and allowing God to work through the artwork and speaking to others who come across our art. So that's a lot of what has been our journey of faith and creating.

A business in that it's so countercultural. Such a wild idea to even. To even have the idea that we could intentionally grow slower. Right. I feel like most people don't even view that as an option. Laura, as you guys were wrestling with this idea, how did you talk about this in the context of stewardship, in the context of the parable, the talents which says we're to put these talents to work. Whatever. I love Yalls decision that you made. I'm curious how you thought this through, how this is good stewardship of your talents by growing slower so that you're more like Jesus and less hurried. How did you think about that?

Yeah, that's a good question. I think something I've thought about often lately is the way that God is reflected in the work that he's created in nature and how oftentimes things. Things take time to grow. When you look at a tree, you know, it started as a sea and the sea doesn't grow overnight or even in a year, you know, to a full grown tree. And that things take time, beautiful things take time, and there's a process. And when I think about the way that we've been doing business and how it's very easy to get caught up in doing things very quickly. But then when I think about stewardship and I think about time being such an essential element of being a good stewards, putting in the time to grow things, to love things, right? And, and the talents that God has given us, I feel that we both are very. We feel both strongly about being able to put in the time to invest those talents and to not allow them just to sit there buried away. But I'm also curious, Jason, if you have anything to add to that.

Yeah, I think that we grew quickly, and it got to a point where it was. I mean, it was great that we were growing that quick and our team was growing and. But there came a point where I think we really had a moment where we're like, okay, well, what's most important for what we're doing? And I think we have core values for our business. And one of them is, well, the three core values are Christ centered, excellence and integrity. And I think when we think about the one excellence is, the one that really came out is we really wanted to focus on excellence in customer service, and we really wanted to focus on excellence in terms of the art that we're creating. And when the business grows quickly, it can be very easy to just be managing the business and spending all the time just managing the business. And it's easy for corners to get cut and different things like that. And so we really wanted to just take a step back and just be able to focus on that excellence, the excellence we can bring to our customers. The excellence we can bring, you know, to the art that we're creating.

Yeah, I can resonate with that. As a creative in a different realm, I totally. It's spending your time focused on the thing you think God's put you on this earth to do most exceptionally well for his glory. Jason, I want to go back to one of the. One of those other core values of integrity. And I may be misremembering the details of this situation, so correct me if I'm wrong here. Okay. But you noticed, the way I recall it, you noticed that you all had accidentally not been paying royalties to a copyright holder on something. Yeah. And the copyright holder didn't notice, but you did, and you went out of your way to make it right. Two questions. Number one, am I remembering this right? And number two, if I am, what did the Lord teach you through that situation?

Yeah, you did remember it, right? So being people that never grew up Christian, that sort of thing, I had no idea that Bible translations were copyrighted. And so when we realized that, it came to our attention somehow and we realized that some of the artwork we were creating was very, you know, was all of the verses were taken from a particular translation. And so we felt that if that was indeed the case that we were owed, that we needed to pay licensing and royalty on that. We wanted to make sure that we were doing it with integrity. Because one of the Things that I've learned through life and through business is that if you're doing your business with the Lord and you're asking him for his guidance and his blessing on it, I just feel like you can only. It's only a positive when you bring that before him, and when you ask him to be able to be the one that, you know, you're putting it under his authority. And I think when we try to do it our own ways, in my own experience, it never works out the right way. And I think that we really want to make sure that we're doing everything in a way that honors God. And so, yeah, we reached out to a lawyer and started asking questions, and we learned that, yes, we did actually need to be paying royalty on this particular artwork. And so we reached out to this organization and let them know, and they were happy to arrange things so that we could start sending them regular checks.

They were happy to do that. Interesting.

Yeah, we're very, very accommodating. But it's. And so, yeah, I mean, it's something that. Could we have continued and maybe they never would have noticed. It's possible, but I just would never have felt peace about that. And I don't feel like it would be honoring to God. And so we try as best we can to do everything with integrity, because we believe that's what honors God, that's what pleases Him. And if we want God to bless our business, then we want it to be under his authority and want it to be something that honors and pleases Him. And so we've always felt a real sense of peace about that. And whenever those types of things come up, we always try to make our decisions based on that principle. And it's always. I don't feel like it's. It's not just to honor God. I think it's also just a better way to do business.

Yeah, I just got to point out here, because I want to commend you for it. That was a very costly decision, but a beautiful example of what it looks like to operate a business under the authority of Jesus Christ. Most entrepreneurs, frankly, I think a lot of entrepreneurs who call themselves Christians would say, well, if they're not going to notice, I'm not going to tell them. It's funny, Jason, I can't remember if I told you this. I was reading 2nd Corinthians 8 a few months ago. 2nd Corinthians 8, verse 21 says, for we are taking pains to do what is right, not only in the eyes of the Lord, but Also in the eyes of man. Right. This is such a beautiful example of that. We do what's right even when it hurts our businesses, even when it hurts other things, so that the Lord would be glorified and receive the glory through the work. Amen.

Amen.

Amen. It's a good word.

Hey, Laura Yalls signature piece of artwork, which I love. P.S. i was in somebody's office this weekend, and they had God's fingerprints on their wall. Forgot to tell you that. It was amazing. But it is this incredible fingerprint. Right. And it's made out of one verse from each book of the Bible. Laura, which verse has been the most meaningful to you as it relates to running this business?

I think since the beginning, the verse that talks about doing all things for his glory has always been something that has stood out to me. But also the passage that talks about the way that God uniquely gifts artists to create beautiful work for him. Was that in Exodus, where.

Yeah, Exodus 31. This is Bezalel, right?

Yes. And the fact that detail made it into the Bible, that God feels that it's important to talk about how this artisan has been gifted with unique gifts so that he can help to build the temple and in the way that only he is uniquely gifted to do, has always inspired me because I didn't notice verses that talked about artists very much when I first started reading about the Bible. So when I came across that verse, I was very much encouraged as an artist myself to see that God cares for the details, that he cares about the beauty that artists sees and that artists care about and that God himself is a creator and that he brings so much beauty into the world.

Yeah. Before I love Makoto Fujimura's work, we had Mako on the podcast earlier this year. And just talking about how before God presents himself to us as a preacher, he presents himself as an artist. And that has dramatic ramifications for how we think about the work that we're all doing in the world. Right?

Yes. Yes. And I think it also. It's very significant to me because with my background, having grown up in a more practical family, where my parents, they were not artists or. But they were very practical. So I think art, I grew up learning that art, it's not something that has as much value and that it's projects that you create or there's always that joke about the starving artist. So there's that sense that it doesn't amount to much oftentimes. And I think when I saw God's heart for artists and for creating Bringing things into this world, it starts to make me look at artists and the talents that God uniquely gives artists differently as well. That there is value, that there is a role, that there's. There are contributions that creators can make that is after God's own heart.

Yeah. And I also think it leads us to a deeper commitment to excellence. It's one of the things I love so much about you guys. Right. I know part of yalls desire for this business was to give the world art centered on scripture that was excellent and true to the art form and not kitschy, because so much of the art in this space is just bad art.

Right.

For calling it what it is. I'm curious, Laura, for you, like, why do you all feel that mastery of the art form is as important as the message of the art?

Yeah, I think, for me, it's very important to be able to pursue excellence in art, because I find that.

When.

We really go after and invest in these talents and gifts that God gives us, he is then able to all the more communicate the power of the messages. And I find that whether it's art, whether it's filmmaking, whether it's music, any sort of creative endeavor, I find that when the quality, when the form of the art itself is at a higher caliber, when it's at a level of mastery, then the way that the message is communicated is all the more powerful. And it comes across in a way that really resonates with people. And you yourself are then able to actually put forth what your intentions are in a way that you were intending, rather than being hindered by the lack of ability to do that through the form itself. So I find that it becomes this great and beautiful vehicle, you know, in which the content and the message can be conveyed.

That's so well said. I've been thinking lately, we have such a limited view of the word evangelism. Right. Psalm says, the stars declare the glory of God. The stars evangelize how? By being beautiful stars. Right. We declare the glory of God with way more than words. We do it with beauty. Right. Bachelor famously signed all of his pieces soli deo gloria, glory to God alone. And his music had no words. They were just great pieces of music. Right. If we want our message to be credible, our work should be beautiful and masterful. Right, Jason?

Absolutely. No, I mean, I agree with what Laura said. I think she put it really well that when our art has that masterful, like when. When we've mastered our craft, I think it gives the art a platform that it may not have otherwise. And I think that's where there's that connection with evangelism, because I think when you create something beautiful and engaging, it's going to connect with people, and then if you're able to, then also communicate God's truth through that. That's. You know, that's a. That's a double win.

So, Jason, you know, you and I have talked about this before, but I'm a big believer that one of the keys to mastering any craft is solitude. Right. Time to go really, really deep on the craft and to think and be creative. Whatever. I heard someone say recently that I think it was on this podcast. I can't remember who said it, but that as a husband or wife, part of your job is to be the guardian of your spouse's solitude. Laura, you guys are married, you work together. You have a baby at home. How do you all guard each other's solitude so that you can be creative and commune with the Lord and master the work God's called you to do?

Yeah, I think we've grown a lot. At least I've grown a lot in the area of solitude. It's funny, because I didn't used to value solitude so much, having grown up in a family where we're always with each other all the time. And Jason has taught me a lot in this area of solitude because he is a lot more naturally inclined to seek out solitude. And through our marriage, I find that I have learned not only to desire to set aside time for my husband to be able to seek out solitude, but also now desiring for myself to seek out solitude for moments of reflection, for processing, for just listening to what God is trying to speak to us in these moments. When I find that those moments are when I find those inspiration. The divine inspiration, I guess you can say with art.

Yeah, that's really good. So what does that look like practically for you guys as a young family? Laura? Like, how much time of solitude do you have a day? How are you ensuring Jason's getting it? Talk us through that.

Yeah, so I think we try to set up our schedule so that Jason and I are taking turns looking after Florence. And as we're also trying to manage the amount of time that we set aside for our deep work, which is when we're actually diving into doing creative work, whatever that looks like, whether it's art or writing, and we are intentional about the blocks of time throughout the day. And we've had this conversation where, you know, Jason would take the morning shift with Florence, and then I would take Florence and That is when Jason is able to have his deep work as well as solitude while I'm taking care of Florence. And then. And then we are able to alternate again. And those times can be when Jason is now looking after Florence and I might be doing deep work, or I might be seeking out solitude in a way that. Where I'm finding inspiration, where I'm trying to spend time with God and allowing him to refill my bucket, so to speak. And so usually, our daily rhythm, because we both work from home, we're able to plan out our daily rhythm in a way where we can both really have those intentional time of solitude and being able to dive into the work that we feel God is calling us to do.

Good. Jason, I know you've been enjoying my book, redeeming your time. Other than deep work, what's been the most helpful thing you've taken away from that book that's enabled you to get more masterful at your craft?

Well, I think the deep work side of it has been huge, and I've been implementing that a lot recently, and it's been amazing because I've been actually getting back to sitting in front of the drafting table and getting pencil on paper, and that's been something. I was so in the business the last few years that I have not been creating as much. And so that your book really helped kind of spark that and kind of helped to create that space and to be intentional about, like, actually putting it in my schedule, making time in my schedule, like setting an appointment with myself to do deep work, that has been a game changer. And so that's been super helpful. And then I think, as well as that, just having a system in terms of managing all of my to do lists, that whole. I can't remember what you call it, it's like the master system.

Yeah. Commitment tracking system.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's. That's been really helpful, just kind of knowing, you know, what needs to get done each day, each month. So, you know, I've been adapting it as. As I've been moving forward, and it's. It's been work working really well. And so, yeah, I've really got a lot of value out of that.

Good. Yeah. Coming back to deep work, that concept of scheduling appointments with yourself, I think it's a really sticky concept. Readers have really latched onto that.

Right.

We're all used to scheduling appointments with others. Right. Meetings, brainstorming sessions, whatever. But if we want to do and master the work we think God's called us to do, we Got to schedule appointments with ourselves. Appointments of solitude to go deep and do the creative work he's called us to do. All right, guys, three questions I love to wrap up every conversation with. I'm going to ask these questions of each of you. First Laura, then Jason. So, Laura, which books do you find recommending or gifting most frequently to others?

So the book that I often recommend to people, whenever we talk about our calling or how God has uniquely gifted each person, and when people ask about their vocational calling, things like that, I always recommend Tim Keller's book, Every good Endeavor. It really helped me to see the unique contribution that I can make as an artist and through what I do. Because before that, there was a lot of questions for me around what that looks like.

Yeah, it's good. How about you, Jason?

Well, I think the one that I recommend most these days is Ruthless Elimination of Hurry. Yeah. So, but I also recommend. And I'm not just putting this out there as a plug, but I do recommend your book a lot, the Master of One, or Called to Create. Because I talk to a lot of people who have that, you know, intersection of, like, faith and work and creativity and. And I'm just like, man, you need to. You need to read this guy Jordan. And so I do recommend your books quite a bit, actually.

I love to hear that. That's good. All right, Laura, who do you want to hear in this podcast talking about how the gospel influences their work in the world?

Yeah, I think the person that I'm most curious about is this lady from Australia, an artist and abstract artist. Her name is Susanna April, and she creates these beautiful works of art with Bible verses written on them. And there is just a lot of spirit led type of process that she goes through as she creates these artworks. So I would. I would love to hear what she has to share.

That's good. It's a good name. Jason, how about you?

Yeah, just to keep the Australian theme going, there's a guy named Christian Watson. He's got a brand called 191924 US. He's originally from the States, but he's relocated to Australia. I think his wife's Australian. But he's just got such a unique aesthetic style, and just, he's really, really gifted at what he does, and his faith informs a lot of what he does and the way that he. The art that he creates and the things that he writes. And so he's just a really fascinating individual, I think. I think it would be awesome to have him on the podcast.

I'm on his website Right now. This is amazing. I love this stuff.

Yeah, he's got a very unique aesthetic, and, man, he just does everything with excellence.

Yeah, he's a very good writer as well.

Yeah. Okay, that's good. All right, guys, last question. You're talking to an audience of Christians who are very diverse in terms of what they do vocationally. A lot of artists, a lot of entrepreneurs, but got doctors and lawyers and plumbers and parents, whatever. What they share is, number one, a commitment to apprentice to Jesus Christ, and number two, a commitment to do exceptional work in his name. What's one thing you want to leave them with before we sign off, Laura?

Yeah, so this is something. I feel like I've said this a lot throughout this podcast, but just really believing, because this is something I struggled with as a young believer and also just as a someone who was trying to figure out what her calling was. It was something I struggled with quite a bit and feeling that through the. As a result of going on this journey with God, that He has really taught me to really believe that he has uniquely gifted each person to bless and serve others through what you do in a. In a way that is very specific to you, and that you have something beautiful and valuable to contribute, and that your unique contribution makes a difference.

Amen. Very well said. How about you, Jason?

Yeah, On a similar thread, I think just really focusing on how to serve others well, that whatever it is that God has gifted you with, whatever skill or ability, I think when our focus is serving others well and just trying to add value and create value for other people, I just feel that God just seems to bless it. And I think that's. That's just. I think a good approach is just really focusing on how we can serve others with what God has given us.

Yeah, very well said, guys. I want to commend you for the exceptional work you do every day, for reminding us to ruthlessly eliminate hurry from our lives, to take pains to do what is right, and for doing everything with excellence and love because of the gospel. Guys, if you want to find out more about Laura and Jason and their incredible work, you can find them at God's Fingerprints. Co Laura and Jason, thank you so much for joining me.

Thank you, Jordan. I really appreciate it.

Thanks, Jordan. It's great being here.

Hey, if you enjoyed today's episode, do me a favor, take 30 seconds and go rate this podcast one to five stars wherever you rate your podcasts. Thank you guys so much for tuning in to the Call to Mastery. I'll see you next week.