Mike Maihack (Spider-Man Comic Book Artist)

Today's episode will begin in three minutes. But first I want to tell you about something crazy I'm doing for my new book, five Mere Christians. I've never seen an author do this before, but I'm giving a money back guarantee on this book. I'm so confident you're gonna love this book that if I'm wrong, if you pre order the book, you don't love it, I'm gonna send you a $20Amazon gift card as a money back guarantee. Why? Two reasons. One, this is a different book for me, right. I know this is a very different biography. What is Jordan Rayner doing? And I know it's risky, so I'm going to de risk it for you. Because listen, in my other books, Redeeming youg Time, the Sacredness of Secular Work, Master of One, etc, etc, I am telling you and me how we can glorify God in our work, but in five Mere Christians, I'm doing something very different. I'm showing you what that looks like practically through these unforgettable life stories of five Mere Christians from history. These are the top men and women that I would love to have on this podcast today if, you know, they weren't dead, right? So that's the first reason this is a risk and I'm gonna de risk this book for you. Here's the second reason. I'm just confident you're gonna love this book. My friend Mark Batterson said, quote, five Mere Christians proves that biographies can be extremely entertaining, profoundly helpful, and mercifully short. If you're looking for a book that combines the punch of a great sermon with the pace of a great thriller, this is it. Highly recommended. End quote. But here's the thing. In order to qualify for this money back guarantee, you got to do two things. Step one, pre order five Mere Christians in any format, hardback, ebook, audiobook, whatever. And then step two, go to 5merechristians.com and fill out the form on that page and that's it. But you got to do it by midnight Eastern Time on May 9. By filling out that form, you'll also get all of the pre order bonuses listed on 5 mereChristians. Calm and be entered to win this crazy, epic trip for two to Europe. So visit 5merechristians.com right now to sign up. Now, please enjoy today's episode. Hey friend. Welcome to the Mere Christians podcast. I'm. Hello, I'm Jordan Raynor. How does the Gospel influence the work of mere Christians? Those of us who aren't pastors or religious professionals, but who Work as public relations specialists, cashiers, and home health aides. That's the question we explore every week. And today I'm posing it to my buddy, Mike Mayhack. He's the award winning graphic novelist behind Cleopatra in Space and the artist behind the latest series of Spider man comics. No big deal. Mike and I recently sat down to talk about how superheroes can show us how practically to follow Jesus. We talked about why Christians should pursue cultural literacy as a means of evangelism and what we should do with the fact that our heavenly father has way more fun working than we do. Trust me, you are not going to want to miss this episode with my friend, Mike Mayhap. Mike Mayhak. Welcome back to the Mere Christians podcast, buddy.

Oh, man, so great to. Let's go. It's so good to hear your voice again.

I know. We've had like a four year long email chain trying to grab coffee. And right before we hopped on and started recording, we were talking about how the older we get, or at least this is true for me, I, like, become increasingly excited about the idea of infinite time. Whereas a kid, that idea dreaded me. Right. But, like, now I'm like, oh, no, I'm gonna have forever to finally grab that coffee after coffee, after coffee with Mike Mayhak. Like, let's go all to God's greater glory and our greater joy. I'm in.

And the best coffee we could possibly have. I know. Like the greatest coffee ever. Yeah, we're just. Yeah, it just keeps building and building. So we're gonna have like this amazing conversation over coffee, and then the Earth, it's gonna be great.

And maybe in the present, who knows? We're gon. We live 20 minutes away from each other.

It shouldn't be that hard. It shouldn't be that difficult. That's how busy we are. I know.

Hey, speaking of busy man. All right, so you were on the show in September of 2020, and you just wrapped up this series of graphic novels called Cleopatra in Space. Dude, I don't know if I've told you this. I think my oldest daughter, Ellison, who's nine now, has read the entire series three times.

Oh, that's amazing. That's a great age for it, too. That's awesome.

She absolutely loves this book. But since then, you've been busy writing and illustrating these three new comic books in the Spider man franchise. No big deal. How did that come about? Like, how does a deal like this get put together? I'm super curious.

Well, it helps to have a literary agent who kind of Brings this stuff to my attention. But, yeah, that I tend to. I'm always drawing. I mean, even after Cleopatra and space was done, I was still. Even if I didn't even think I was gonna do comics anymore because they're so difficult and they take so much time. But I love drawing superheroes, and I post them up online. Just like we call it fan art for those who might not be familiar what that is, but just drawing other characters. And Abrams, which is another book publisher along the lines of Scholastic, they had just gotten this license to do some Marvel stuff, including Spider Man. I think they saw a lot of that. I liked drawing superheroes, that I drew them in a way that wasn't. That was, like, kid friendly without making them look like kids. And just thought it'd be a good fit. Yeah. Kind of cartoony and. But not too, you know, too off the. You know, off the scale of what they. They wanted the books to look like, and they really wanted to introduce new readers to these superheroes, like young readers. So I think they had. They saw they had a good grasp on making things accessible, and so they. Yeah, they came along, thought, hey, we thought you'd be good for Spider man book. And I was like, no, he's going to be really hard to draw over and over again. But after doing a few sketches, I realized how fun that would be and took on the job.

I can't imagine even thinking about saying no to illustrating Spider Man. Like, can you think of a bigger brand for a comic book artist? Come on.

Oh, man, it was daunting. I wouldn't even say it was daunting. I almost had to look at the character and go, if I own this character, even though I don't, you know, if it was mine, if I was the way, how would I portray him? How would I do them? Knowing what's come before, sort of making my own. That's the only way I could kind of get a grasp on doing the own story. That's kind of how it happened.

That's super interesting.

And it was so much fun. Yeah.

What's the spin pun intended on this new set of Spider man books?

So I write a very friendly and neighborly Spider Man. That's really his whole. His whole story. Just. He's always trying to make everybody feel great and accepted and happy. And his first. The very first. I can't say person, but the very first character in the book that he befriends is this pigeon who I named Mark. He's sort of. I knew the character is Spider Man. So he was sort of talking throughout the book. He just wasn't talking to himself the entire story. So I created Mark, this pigeon, because he's in New York and pigeons can fly and kind of swing around with him and stuff. And that's sort of where he represents being sort of that, you know, that sort of do unto others whatever you would like them to do. He's sort of teaching this to, like, the pigeons of New York almost. And there's this pigeon crisis that he sort of identifies with. And it's funny because that's. By just putting that character in and having sort of something, some character sort of play against Spider man that sort of showed where his character was kind of coming out of and how he was going to interact with the other heroes that kind of come up through. Come up and give him these sort of responsibilities and things. I had gave him this idea that he has great power because with great. That's his motto. I think a lot of us know his motto. Great power comes great responsibility. Well, what would we do if we had like, a. Something that we didn't think was a great responsibility and we felt we could do more? So sort of teaching others that even the smallest responsibility can be great for others. And so that's. That's sort of where the path that kind of leads them to pet sit for a lot of the Avengers or go help and help the Fantastic Four find the city of Atlantis. These various sort of things that he gets into. Later on, he goes up into space and tries to teach the Guardians of the Galaxy that maybe fighting isn't always the best solution. And maybe we can find some friendly opportunities, which is really difficult to get across to Rocket Raccoon. But, yeah, it was a whole. It was a blast. And it was great writing something that my kids could kind of share. As I was writing it, I could kind of read it to them and get their interactions and feedback for it, since it was really, you know, for young readers. But I was thinking for adults, hopefully we'll read these books to their kids, so they need to enjoy it, too. So just trying to think all ages and that sort of thing.

Yeah, I bought them for Ellison. I haven't read them myself, but I'm excited to now knowing that you had that in mind. That's super fun. So, dude, we do not have a ton of repeat guests on the Mere Christians podcast, but you emailed me when you were working on this project and you were like, hey, if you're interested, I'd love to have a conversation publicly about how, quote, superheroes are also doing God's work, end quote. And I immediately said yes, like I did not sit on it at all. I was like, when can you chat? And you've already started to allude to this, but I want you to be more explicit. How are superheroes, how can artists like you portray superheroes like Spidey doing God's work in the world? What do you mean?

Oh man. How are they not? That's the more important thing. I think it really boils down to I mentioned earlier about, you know, that, you know, Matthew 7:12, the do unto others as you would like to, but I think we, we go beyond that, you know, and heroes definitely go beyond that. It's not, you don't want to think about how, how you want to be treated, but how you would treat others better than yourself. I almost look at people as more important than you are.

Yeah, Philippians 2.

Yes, yes, Philippians 2. So, you know, heroes, they have this, like we talked about great power and they have these abilities, extraordinary things, and yet a true hero won't use that for their own self worth and their own good. They might start off that way. Spider man certainly did. He went that path at the beginning. But I think we love seeing how characters and heroes work themselves out of that. And we gravitate to that because we want to be that way. And we find, we find these heroes as sort of a representation of what life on the new earth is going to be like, what we are kind of aspiring to. They're essentially doing Jesus work by going out there and serving others, by saving them. And I love that idea. And I love the fact that so many of them are imperfect so that we can sort of identify with that. And I love how there's so many ones from just all over the world who sort of embrace cultural differences and kind of make sure we're looking at everybody as sort of the same, despite the differences that we might have.

Dude, that's, it's so good. I just wrote a devotional on First Corinthians 13:5 where Paul's explaining what love is. And let's talk about love not being self seeking. And that's what you're talking about.

I mean, exactly.

With great power comes great responsibility, seeking the good of others. And what you're doing and telling these stories is literally and figuratively animating that truth and giving people a case study in this fictional environment of what it looks like for love not to be self seeking.

Right, exactly. If we want to talk about one of the greatest Storytellers ever, ever lived. Jesus, who, his entire ministry was based on storytelling, based on these parables that he would tell. Well, his parables were rooted in the truth at the time, in different, you know, what that culture was like. But as the culture shifts and things advance and change, we need these modern purple, we need these modern heroes to represent those same truths. And even though they might not all be written within that sort of vein, but that's what they're there for. They're there to kind of show us what it's like to be more like Christ. Even if the writers aren't coming from that specific standpoint, that's where they're at. I think we longed for that. I think even, you know, non Christian writers long for us to be something better than what we are. And so we, we find these truths by writing these heroes. I love it. I think that's why I've always read superheroes and read comics ever since I was a kid, because it's just aspiring, you know, it's. Yeah, it's what you want to see in the world.

I've been thinking about this a lot lately, like there's a reason, there's many reasons, right, why the Word became flesh. Because I think while God knew that you and I needed to be told how to glorify him through his living written word, I think he also knew that we needed to be shown how to glorify him through the lived word of Jesus Christ. Like, I think God knew that we humans need these flesh and bone, three dimensional model to understand what it looks like practically to glorify him, right? And of course we've got that perfect model in Christ, but we also have imperfect models of how to glorify God in Christ followers, right? This is what the Apostle Paul was talking about in I think it's First Corinthians 11 where he says, follow my example as I follow the example of Christ. He understood that he had a unique story and a unique context that would make the idea of following Jesus more concrete to those who shared his work and life stage and cultural context, right? And I think even more imperfectly Spider man or these other, or this or even like this is why I read biographies, right? Like reading the life of Fred Rogers shows me, okay, in my more modern context, this is what this looks like, right? So if we want to know what it looks like practically to glorify God, we look first to Christ, but second to Christ's followers. And the story of redemption that's being woven through stories like the ones you're writing in these comics, books. Am I making any sense at all?

Oh, that's so well said. I mean, I think it's really hard as Christians to. If you, you only look towards Jesus and look at the absolute perfectness of it, it's almost like, it's almost too much. It's like you can get to the point where it's. I'll never be able to reach that because you're constantly messing up, making mistakes, which we all do. And so it's nice to look at people that have, are working really hard to build themselves out of that. And yeah, Fred Rogers is what a great example that is. And that's why, same thing, I sit and when I'm on the treadmill, I watch documentaries. And I love watching documentaries about aspiring people and people climbing mountains and things like, you know, different. I don't even watch sports, but I love sports documentaries because I love people putting their all into trying to be something better than they actually are, you know. And yeah, and so, yeah, it's what you said was so awesome.

But even a comic can do that for us perfectly, of course. Right. So in my newest book, the Sacredness of Secular Work, I'm talking a lot about how mere Christians can scratch off glimpses of the kingdom of God. Right. By planting previews of the characteristics of God's kingdom in the things that we create. Right. And you're doing this quite literally in these comic books. You're planting a seed of previewing what it looks like for love not to be self seeking. And you know, it's interesting, like God may use those seeds of the kingdom that you're planting Mike, to sprout saving faith in a reader's heart. You have no idea. Right. But he may not. And so I'd love to hear you talk for a minute about like, what value do you see in the work, even if you can't draw a direct line between the things you're making in these comic books and somebody's individual salvation.

Oh man, that's awesome. What a great question. You know, I think about creativity a lot because that's my main job is just to make up stuff. One of the most difficult things of my part of my job is having too many ideas and trying to decide which one to kind of land on. And so, you know, you kind of go, well, what if you sort of have to jump? Like, I'm going to do a treasure hunting story this time. I'm going to do a superhero story. But not everybody's going to be into that. But how can you grasp. How can you kind of gain sort of that readership? And I think of. I think how creativity really cultivates just more creativity. It leads people to think of new ideas. So even like reading if. Even if you don't want to draw another comic or something like that, if you. If you're reading a Spider man comic, what is that going to inspire you to. If you watch, if a kid's reading something about Spider man going into space or Cleopatra going to the space that might want them to be a scientist, where they can actually want to build the tools that take us and explore new different places out there in the cosmos and things like that. So by just that culture leading, or the creativity leading to new advancement in culture, we're advancing that culture. We're advancing the Earth. We're creating a better Earth. We're pretty much bringing that new Earth. We're making it more visible for everybody by doing exactly what God intended us to do. He's a creator God. He wanted us to tend the garden and create new things and make the world even a better place than it is. And that's how we do that, is by coming up with new ideas, new stories, new advancements, and who knows what's going to inspire others to do those things.

This is super interesting. I don't know that I've ever thought about that idea that your work as a creator has intrinsic value because in some nonlinear way it may inspire somebody else to create, Christian or not. And for that believer who's really leaning into that creativity in a God glorifying way, they are imaging the creator God as they make those things.

Exactly. Yep.

Yeah, that's really good. And let's face it, right? Like, I think the work has value because, listen, making and reading comic books is just fun. And we worship a joyful God. I've been thinking a lot over the last couple years about, like, yeah, I just think our Heavenly Father has way more fun in his work than most of his children do.

He's got to.

He's got to, because there's no sin barring it, right? Like Revelation 21 says that God decorated the new Jerusalem with 5,600 miles of gems, right? There can't be a utilitarian function to that many jewels, right? He. He had to do it simply for the joy of doing. There. There's this verse in Job. It says something somewhere. It says that. I think it's job 38. It says that God makes it rain in deserts where no man lives. Why? Apparently, just because God thinks that sounds fun to make it rain in this random desert. Right. Like, do you ever think about this, Mike, that God works for the pure joy and play of working. And so you are free to make really playful, fun things as well. Do you ever think about that?

Absolutely, Absolutely. He wants us. There wouldn't be beautiful things in the world if we weren't meant to sit down quietly, enjoy these beautiful things. And if God's doing that and we're want to be like God, we're intended to do the same thing. We need to sit down. There's an intrinsic value in just. And just creating things that are beautiful, things that are entertaining. It doesn't have to have a practical use. The practical use is that it is beautiful, that it is entertaining, because those are the things that we sort of makes us sit down and live in awe of this world that we are in. If we're just going by our day doing, I have to do this because this needs to get done or this is going to propel this thing to go to this thing. And just constantly not spending time to just look and be aware and listen to everything that's around us and the people that are around us. I imagine when I think about Jesus's ministry, the amount of time that he had walking from different cities and just living in this earth that his father created, he probably just sat there and just lived it. He didn't have to explain it all the time. He could just look at it and enjoy it and then use those, use that beauty to kind of come up with new stories, which I love. I love the idea of Jesus as a storyteller. That's one of my favorite aspects of the New Testament. We have the storytelling, Old Testament and then the storyteller. And it's, it's beautiful. It's a beautiful book.

And a lot of times those stories weren't very explicit. Right. Like, he ended most of those stories without tacking a tract onto the end of it.

Oh yeah, he was. Yeah. Great cliffhangers. Great, great, great cliffhangers.

I love it. Yeah. And trusted the spirit to, to move and convict people in certain ways. I don't know that I've ever heard somebody say explicitly what you just said. I thought it was really interesting. Interesting that like, beauty is practical. I think we have evidence for this in Genesis 2. Genesis 2, 9 says, the Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground. Trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. Right. So beautiful and functional. And let's remember this is pre sin so apparently, according to God, beauty is essential to life and life abundantly. So simply by creating beautiful or fun comics in a God honoring way has intrinsic value because you are helping people live the abundant life that God created for us. Right?

Exactly. Yeah, that's totally it right there.

Yeah. All right, so you. Is your job, like over the top fun? Like, do you love your work.

Most.

Is because everyone's listening back. This is a dream.

Yeah, it's a lot of work. There's days. Because it's not one of those jobs where you just kind of go in and do the work and then come home and.

Yeah, you're always thinking about it.

You're always thinking. Your mind is. I mentioned earlier, I think how it's the hardest part about my job is too many ideas. And so usually what I'm praying for most of the time is just peace. That I can just kind of relax and not think about drawing and storytelling for just a few minutes and be able to just focus on, like I talked mentioned earlier, just sort of enjoying life as what it gives me and family time and stuff. But there's. The work has to get done. You have deadlines. I tend to work about 60 hours a week on these drawings. And writing you rework. It's about working and reworking and changing and refining, which I think we do just in our lives daily anyways for any sort of field. You're constantly practicing at it, trying to get better, improve. So I'm motivated mostly by, I think, a desire to do God's work. But I want to do it really. I want to make him proud, you know, I want to make it. I want to do a really, really good job at. And so I'm always trying to do better than the thing I did last time. And I'm always trying to draw better or write better. Yeah, it's not. Some days are better than others when it comes to that. And some days I feel like I'm not drawing well at all. Sometimes it's just flowing through me like a river. It's just.

It's.

But there's no. There's no really real rhyme or reason to it. It's just wherever the spirit's kind of.

Bringing me that day, I can resonate with this feeling of like, man, I love what I do. Like, I can't believe I get to do this work. I hope I'm doing something similar for eternity and that. That eternity starts now. Like. And, you know, it's interesting. Like, growing up, I used to hear the advice all the time that I'm sure you heard, like, if you choose a job you love, you'll never have to work a day in your life. You and I have done that. But, like, yeah, it feels like work. Some days, even though I love it.

Still working, it is hard.

And some days, if I'm honest, man, like, there are days when it does feel like a grind. And, like, I. The older I get, the more I realize that that's a blessing in disguise. It's actually a good thing for my soul because it ensures that I will never find complete joy and satisfaction in the work, that I can only find that thing in Christ. Have you experienced something similar here?

You know, it's funny, usually the days where if I'm sitting there and I'm trying to draw a specific pose or some. Trying to figure out how the best panel layout or something like that, and it's just not working. I've spent way too much time on it. I'd say 99% of the time, if I just stop. Stop being so stubborn about what I'm trying to do on my own and pray and go, God, help me figure out how to get this done. If this is. Maybe this is the type of panel you want me to be drawing right now, maybe this isn't the right expression. And then, boom, it's there. It might not be the best thing I've ever drawn, but again, that sort of confidence or peace sort of falls on me, and I'm able to look at what he's given me, this gift he's given me, appreciate it, and then start using it in ways that. Not drawing for myself, but drawing what he. You know, because he wants me to. Because he wouldn't have put these opportunities in front of me. He wouldn't have given me the desire to seek out those opportunities and the skill set to do so if it wasn't something I think that he really wanted me to do. Yeah. So I look at these projects that he gets me, and I look forward. I mean, I look forward to what I do every single day. Every morning I go. I get to go and make comics I love. This is what I've always wanted to do.

Yeah. But those thorns and thistles, right? That writer's block, that frustration you feel.

Oh, it can be hard. Writing is harder than drawing, too, I think, sometimes.

Yeah, for sure. But like that? Well, I don't know. I would know. I have no idea. But I do think that's a blessing in disguise. Right. Because that's the thing that drives you to God. That drives you to prayer. Right. And so it's increasing your reliance on the Lord, and. And that's a good thing. Right?

I love that. Yeah, that's so well said. And not only that, not only are you creating that reliance on the Lord, but then the result is more creation. You know, you're adding to what God wants you to do. You're adding more things to the earth.

All right. Hey, we've talked a lot about how your faith shapes what you write, what you illustrate, the stories you're telling. I'd love to go a level deeper, though, and just hear about how your faith is shaping how you're doing your work day in, day out. Right. Prayer seeking the Lord's guidance is one obvious way. But what else about how you go about this craft as a graphic novelist can only be explained by your apprenticeship to Jesus Christ.

Oh, wow. That is a great. That's a great question. We talked a little bit about being more like being more Christ, like the storyteller aspect of that. I love the idea that I can't be a storyteller without being aware of other stories out there. I can't draw things without witnessing those things. You can sort of imagine what. You know, you can be creative, especially when you're drawing superheroes in science fiction. You know, you can imagine worlds and characters, but they all sort of have to stem from something real, something very that's already out there. And so if almost forcing is. I don't. I think it's too strong a word, but it encourages you to really listen to other people, to really take the time to be patient. Patience is a huge key, not just listening and watching and looking, but also in taking that and finding what those core qualities are to put into your characters and put into your worlds and sort of try your best, really, to represent the things that God's trying to show in ways that can be entertaining and fun, in ways that other people might not see. Certain things, you know. And so it's a really wonderful way. You think being a cartoonist or a storyteller or a comic book artist, a lot of it's just maybe sitting. And it is. It's sitting at a desk alone, very isolated, at a computer. But you can't do that if you don't get out in the world and really get to know people and spend time and not just God's word, but in God's world and just bring those aspects, find what's calling to you in those things and put those in your work and then share that with others. And I think a Lot of times we can sometimes come up with great ideas, especially entrepreneurs. We come up with wonderful things, and I think sometimes we hoard those ideas. We don't want people to take those ideas because we want to use them for. For ourselves. And that's not what God wants. God wants us to share these wonderful things that he's given us, these gifts. And storytelling comics is really about that. It's about sharing ideas. It's about sharing a love of the craft. It's about sharing entertainment and fun and making people laugh and making people smile, which is really the motivation of most of what I do is trying to just give people joy. And what I'm trying to. You know, I'm just trying to. These little stories, but hopefully they create bigger emotions, and those emotions therefore make them want to go out and do the same thing to also create joy in others, which is really what Spider Man's whole deal is about in all the three Spider man books. So that's me just putting myself into it. Yeah.

It's interesting to think about how our faith should lead us to kind of reject the world's scarcity mindset of things and just share more freely. Share. I'm not talking about economically freely. Right. But share more publicly. Share more. Share ideas in their most nascent form because we believe in the God that owns the cattle on a thousand hills. Right. I think about Second Corinthians 9, 8. Right. God is able to bless you abundantly so that in all things, at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work. Like, we don't have to be afraid of sharing our best ideas. We don't have to be afraid of sharing these things in their nascent form, because God's going to ensure that we have whatever we need. Not whatever we want, but whatever we need to abound in every good work.

Right, Exactly. You know, it's. I tell. I do a lot of author visits at schools and stuff. And one of the things I tell, the. One of the biggest questions I get when I do Q and A's is, how do you keep people from stealing your ideas? Or how. And my answer is always the same is, every story has already been told.

There's nothing new under the sun.

Nothing new under the sun. What makes it unique is your voice, your personal influence, and what you bring into it. And I think that's very freeing. I mean, that's what God wants. He wants our voices out there. He wants us to cry out. He wants us to worship through the good works that we do. And that's how we are sort of filling up the earth is with our voices. And I think there's no worry there. You don't have to worry about people kind of taking. Because that's unique. It's what makes us unique and it reminds us that we are unique, that God created us just the same way that God created each of us differently. Your stories, your ideas, your plans for your business are also going to be unique. And it's just, again, this is not going to be a complex podcast for anyone. But that's what brings us back to God, is those reminders, those little reminders. Just the act of creating creation is a reminder of who God is.

That's good. So you breeze past this bomb of a phrase a few minutes ago that I have to circle back to. Oh, no, it was so good. You were talking about spending time, quote, in God's word and God's world, end quote. You're talking about being culturally literate. If I could put words in your mouth. Right. And I'm curious if, like. So you're engaging in this space with other comic book artists, the space that some believers might call secular, but I would refute, since you as a believer are there. Have you. Can you think of an example where your cultural literacy, your understanding of the world of comics and culture and movies, film, whatever, has led to a clear opportunity for you to be able to share your faith or connect the dots for somebody else to Christ?

I wish I could say I had, like, a concrete example. It is a very difficult field because most of my peers in the comics probably come from a place of. Not faith, I would say, or a lack of faith. I think it's what that leads some to sort of create stories because they're trying to find, again, it's that. That longing to find something better than themselves. And sometimes either it's. I can't speak for anybody, but there's been aspects and maybe some in life where the idea of a greater power sounds against the very nature of what they're trying to do. And so you have to kind of, rather than. I found, rather than just outright telling people or saying things, I try to show it through my actions and my work and show it through the art that I create. I don't get on social media very often other than I don't really engage in social media, but I do almost daily or every other day. I post art, I post fan art, I post drawings. And it's always with the idea of sharing something positive and hopeful and loving and good. Or beautiful. And so I want those attributes to come out and everybody else, I think once people feel those things, they're curious to look towards more where that's coming from.

To be clear, like, we just spent the majority of this podcast talking about this. I think your work has intrinsic value, even if it doesn't lead to those explicit conversations. But I do think this is not a very, well, big thought, but it's something that's been simmering in the background for me for a while. I do think, especially in this increasingly post Christian context, the Christians who will be most effective at making disciples are going to be Christians who are fairly culturally literate, because we can connect the dots and find common ground with those who have yet to meet Jesus. And part of what got me thinking about this, I just pulled this up. I was reading this old sermon from Tim Keller from back in 2001, and he was talking about how he met this college student in New York who was reading Harry Potter. I guess she had attended a service. And after the service, he said, hey, why do you like Harry Potter books? And she said, quote, I don't know, they kind of cast a spell on me. And she laughed. And he said, listen to this. I said, quote, I think it may be because in spite of what your intellect tells you, your heart knows this world is not all there is. And every good story tells you there are mysterious, stupendous powers out there that can come into our impossible situation. Your heart knows it, though your intellect denies it. And the stories assure you and give you some relief and fill you with wonder. End quote. But as I read that, I was like, man, like, thank God Tim spent time engaging with Harry Potter. Like, I, you know, like, like to be able to have that conversation and to be able to connect the dots for that woman. I just think we're going to hear a lot more stories like that in the future.

Oh, yeah, it's impossible if you don't feel you can't connect with others, if you don't listen to them. If you don't. I mean, you have to have cultural literacy, I think, too. I love this. I'm using this from now on, now that you've. You've used that term. But you cannot share the good word of Jesus if you don't try to understand where people are coming from and where they're at and what, what they're into and what they love. And maybe that's also what draws me to superheroes.

Yeah, it's the stories that they love and write and being able to understand the story, be like, hey, you know why you love that thing? Because ultimately it's drawing you to Christ. Christ is the fulfillment of that seed that that story planted in your heart. It can only sprout to full fruition in Jesus Christ.

I love that.

All right. Hey, you mentioned this a couple times. Let's land the plane here. This idea of having too many ideas.

Right, to work on and.

Oh, my gosh, my agent and I were on the phone yesterday talking about Jordan Raynor's too many ideas for books and projects. Does that lead you to a deeper hope of eternity where, like, man, we don't have to worry about running out of time to work on all these ideas. We're going to have eternity to just continue to do this work.

Oh, man. I think about heaven and new Earth all the time. I think about what it would be like. Like what? It's so impossible to grasp what that, like, eternity is like. What would be eternity and how would you not.

My.

My biggest fear, I remember I. My biggest fear of heaven, because I was scared to death of heaven when I was little, is that would be. It would be boring. It would just be so dull. And I was like, I don't want to live for. I don't want to be bored for eternity. And so I think what would be exciting, you know, what would last me for eternity, I think of it. I think I grew up watching Star Trek and the combination of that with, like, Lord of the Rings and all these other things and Narnia. And I love the idea of exploring. And I think we're still doing that even just now. We're still finding pockets around where we're at on this planet to explore. And I think we look at outer space. We look at all these stars. There's a line in a show I watched recently where one of the characters asked, why did God create all of these, all these stars? It can't just be window dressing. I was like, exactly. It's not window dressing. He's like, we're gonna go out there. We're gonna explore that. There's gonna be so much to see. There's gonna be so much to do. And think of the stories we'll be able to tell after we see, like, these endless adventures that we're gonna go on. It would be like the longest, most entertaining video game you've ever played. There's just puzzle after puzzle and quest after quest. And each time you discover one thing that just leads to the next, and you just can't wait to jump to the next. And then you can't wait to tell people about it. To me, that's how I want to treat how I'm living now.

Yes, 100%, because eternity is now in session. The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Yes. Yes. And it's funny to think that God definitely isn't running out of ideas and yet he's still bestowing on us the gift to create more. More ideas and be more creative. And that's so loving for somebody to do that. It's just. It shows. It shows such a great power. It's amazing.

I love it. I think this is the first time I'm mentioning this here on the podcast, so this would be fun. Note to my cmo, sorry we didn't time this announcement very well, but this October I'm releasing my second children's book. So it's going to be to the creator and you. Yeah, it's called the Royal in you. It's an exposition on Revelation 21:22 and trying to help kids overcome their, frankly, a silent dread that you and I felt as kids over this idea of heaven and really focusing on what I don't see a whole lot of kids books focusing on not the present heaven, but the new earth where Revelation 22:5 says, we will reign forever and ever with Christ and man. As you were talking, you were basically reading the last stanza of the book. Listen, I'm going to read it for us. This be a good benediction to this episode. So don't think for one second that heaven is boring because we'll be reigning, creating and exploring, not just for our joy and surely not for our glory, but to love and to worship the one who is worthy. It'll be so much better than your wildest dreams ruling heaven on earth next to Jesus our king. Right? And that reign starts now. Dude, that's what you're doing right now, Mike. That's what we're doing. Co laboring with Jesus the king, Reigning, creating and exploring for his glory and the good of others. Amen.

Oh, amen.

Dude, I can't wait to send you the art of this. All right. Hey bro, three questions. We wrap up every show with. Number one, which books do you find yourself recommending most frequently? Like if we opened up your Amazon order order cart history, what do we see you buying over and over again?

It's so funny because probably most of the guests you have on here are going to recommend sort of, you know, more, I won't say self help books, but more non fiction, you know, And I'm Like, I am not. I am not recommending. Non. I hardly. Here's the thing. I hardly read nonfiction because I'll get like halfway through a nonfiction book and then put it down because I just want something that's taking place some. In some world I've never of. Heard. Heard of. So. But I talked a lot about. I knew you're gonna ask. I knew you're gonna ask this question. So I was thinking, what can I recommend? The book that got me into making comics is a book called Bone. It's a big kind of epic. I read it and like you can read it in full color volumes if you have kids. I would recommend full color if you're an adult. I think you really enjoy this book. And then I would recommend it in black and white just because I feel the art works. His artwork just is just so, so delicate that you really get a lot out of it that way. But it's a book called Bone, but it's a nine volume series that you can actually buy in one volume if you wanted and probably most people would read on a weekend. There's a book called All Star Superman, not written by a Christian author. But I think the Superman in this story represents more of what Christ is like than a lot of stories I've read in the past. Past. So if anyone looked into superheroes and wanted something like that, I do recommend Called To Create quite a lot. It's a great book. And then also I want to recommend the Infinity Gauntlet for anyone into Marvel stuff. If you want to see characters kind of. That's a Marvel book that the whole cinematic universe was initially based off of. But it was the book that really got me into Marvel Comics. But then also just for a devotional series because I. I start each of my days out reading devotionals. One of the ways that I've kind of gotten into a habit of starting my day, ones I've really loved are. I'm probably going to mispronounce his name. I think you've had him on the show before too. But Sky Jahanthi.

Yeah, Sky Jatani Chaitani.

Okay. He does these if Jesus was serious. What?

If Jesus was serious.

Yeah. Those are just. They're. They're short, they're sweet, but they're so. They're so well thought out. And I love the little illustration at the beginning of them. So anyone that served, listening this and kind of like me, need sort of a visual represent representation of something. I think those are some great devotional books out there.

That's a great. I Love those books. They're so great. All right, Mike, who would you want to hear on this podcast talking about how their faith shapes their work? Ideally, not a pastor or theologian, but a mere Christian like you.

Okay.

Yeah.

Lately, I've just recently, about a month ago, found out about the Bible project. Have you ever had anybody from there?

I never have, no. But I'm actually current, so I listen to no podcasts. I'm currently making an exception by listening to the Bible projects year through the Sermon on the Mount.

Yeah, same here. Yeah.

Which is phenomenal.

Yeah, it's so good. I was thinking it would be great. Yeah, the podcast is great. And then there's. They make these YouTube videos, which are really great. Oh, gosh. I would love to hear from the art director or one of the art directors from there. And most. It would be. Think it'd be interesting to see just because they're sort of visually representing, having to create, like, this visual of what they're trying to kind of unravel the story of the Bible. If that has sort of changed the way they've sort of looked at the Bible and kind of. If that's sort of where they're kind of coming at. Because that's a big responsibility, I think, to kind of put that. Serve this visual into people's heads as they're given this permission. But, yeah, I've been loving that Bible project. That's been. I'm glad I discovered that.

It's so crazy good. All right, Mike, you're talking to this very diverse audience of mere Christians, diverse geographically, certainly vocationally. What's one thing from our conversation today that you would want to reiterate to our listeners before we sign off?

Oh, man. You know, honestly, I think. I hope listeners can come out of this thinking themselves as. Also come up thinking themselves as superheroes, that you don't need extraordinary abilities or really any extraordinary anything. You just have a great heart, a great reverence for Jesus Christ and his teachings and a great open mind. The extraordinary things he can accomplish through you. Whatever your vocation may be, just be a superhero for Jesus Christ.

That's so good, man. We got the Holy Spirit in us, right? Like, come on.

The greatest motivator in the world right there.

That's exactly right. I love it. Hey, Mike, I want to commend you for the exceptional work you do every day for the glory of God and the good of others, for using your vocation to scratch off glimpses of the kingdom of God, to tell parables of the kingdom to so many people. And just for reminding us of the joy we can experience in our work. Because we're made in the image of a God who creates with abundant joy. Hey, friends, if you want to see, I cannot not recommend Mike's work highly enough, especially as Cleopatra in Space series. But even the Spider man series, which I haven't read, but Ellison loved what's the series called? A Mighty Marvel Team Up. Is that it?

Yeah, it's mighty. The idea of Spider man teaming up with pretty much as many Marvel characters as I can. I can cram into like an 80 page story.

It's like a Taylor Swift music video.

Yeah, I'm just bringing everybody in that I can. It's like a Super bowl special or something. Something.

But oh my gosh, I love it. And hey, where's the best place to hang out with you online? Is it Instagram at Mike Mayhack?

Gosh, I hate saying this because it sounds like I'm trying to sell it, but my Patreon is really the only place you're going to get more than just my art. That's where I share how I make my comics, where I share a little bit more commentary on stuff. You're going to get all the newest art that I do there as well. But for the most part, I do on Instagram and I don't know, X, Twitter, whatever they're calling it these days. I do try to daily or every other day post a new draw. You're not going to get a lot of commentary for me on there, but I will post art.

So yeah, that's awesome, Mike. Thanks for hanging out with us today, brother.

Thank you. I love this.

Good grief. I freaking love that episode. I hope you did too. Hey, if you're enjoying the Mere Christians podcast, do me a huge favor. It'll take you 30 seconds. Go leave a record review of the show on Apple or Spotify. My team and I read every single one of those reviews. It would be a huge encouragement to our producers on the podcast. Thank you guys so much for tuning in. I'll see you next week. Hey friends, this is your last chance to claim all the amazing pre order bonuses for five mere Christians before they go away at 11:59pm Eastern Standard Time on May 9. I've never offered this many pre order bonuses on a book before. So when you fill out the form@5merechristians.com Number one, you're going to be entered to win an incredible trip for you and a friend to tour CS Lewis's favorite spots in Oxford. Explore Olay Kirk Christensen's former stomping grounds at Lego headquarters in Denmark, and much more. Number two, you'll be invited to join my first ever interactive reading, culminating in a zoom call with me and my co author on this book, Kaylee Cox. Number three, you're going to be getting a money back guarantee to try the book risk free. And number four, you'll also get access to a free course I'm not selling anywhere called how to write a book 10x faster and better with an Affordable co Author. You can claim all these bonuses in just two simple steps. Step 1 Pre order 5 mere Christians in any format you want. It can be hardback, ebook, audiobook, whatever, and you can order it from wherever. Doesn't matter to me. STEP 2 Go to 5merechristians.com and fill out the form of that page. And that's it. I'll send you all those bonuses. You'll be entered into the sweepstakes with one simple form submission. But hey, don't wait all of these off, all of these offers, all these bonuses. They're going away at 11:59pm Eastern Standard Time on May 9th. So visit 5MereChristians calm right now to claim your bonuses.