Rachel Cruze (#1 New York Times bestselling author of Smart Money, Smart Kids)

The episode you're about to listen to was released back when the Mere Christians podcast was called the Call to Mastery. Now, if you love Mere Christians, you're still going to love these older episodes because the majority of each conversation focuses on how the gospel influences the work of our guests.

With that disclaimer out of the way.

Please enjoy the episode. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Call to Mastery. I'm Jordan Raynor. This is a podcast for Christians who want to do their most exceptional work.

For the glory of God and the good of others.

Each week, I'm hosting a conversation with a Christian who is pursuing world class mastery of their jobs, of their vocation. We're talking about each guest's path to mastery, their daily habits and routines, and how their faith impacts their work. Today, I'm thrilled to share a conversation I recently had with Rachel Cruz, the number one New York Times best selling author of multiple books. And she's also the daughter of Dave Ramsey, the CEO and founder, of course, of Ramsey Solutions.

I think you guys have heard of.

This venture before, but I gotta say, I'm so impressed with Rachel. She's such an impressive author and speaker in her own right, helping people manage their money well, helping people think through the spiritual components of contentment. And Rachel does a lot of things, but as we talked about in this episode, like her dad, she is clearly a masterful teacher. That's the thing that they're both pursuing mastery of. So I was in Franklin, Tennessee. Rachel invited me over, allowed us to use their incredible new studios at their new headquarters there in Franklin. And we sat down, we talked about the cautionary advice that that Dave Ramsey gave Rachel before she decided to join the family business. We talked about the hard things that Rachel does that make her a more masterful teacher. We talked about why Dave Ramsey's team, all 1,000 employees over there at Ramsey Solutions, believe that their work matters. And most of them understand this eternal significance of their work. And we spend a few minutes talking about pizza. Yeah. Right at the beginning of the conversation, Rachel and I talked about our favorite pizza places throughout Nashville. So if you're traveling to Nashville or live in Nashville, you'll get a kick out of that. So without further ado, please enjoy this conversation I recently had with Rachel Cruz.

Rachel, thanks so much for letting us use this great space at the new Ramsey Solutions offices. This is incredible.

Yeah, absolutely. I'm glad you're here. We were just saying that you were at the old building and then you've been able to experience the new with us.

And I Learned something new. Your husband was managing this project for four years.

Yes.

Yeah.

So.

So you're very happy it's over.

I know.

I know.

I was laughing. Like, Ramsey Solutions is happy it's over because, like, we've been talking about this move forever, but we had the ribbon cutting ceremony last week and all of it, and now Winston's like, okay. Yeah, it's like. It's a relief within the family. Of the cruises family, not just the. Not just the company.

So if you're a fan of Dave.

Ramsey, which I know a lot of.

People listening to this episode are, if you're a fan of Rachel's, you got to come see this place. It's incredible. The whole entrance floor here is filled with DAV memorabilia and timelines of the company. It's fantastic. So, hey, I want to ask a softball question to get us started. My team discovered your bio, which is not hard to find. And you're the second line in your bio. Makes you very endearing to me.

I'm very curious.

Yeah, you probably don't remember. You talk about how much you love pizza, which is something I could do a whole episode on. So here in Franklin, in Nashville.

Yes.

I have a favorite spot, but I'm curious. What's yours? What's your favorite pizza spot?

Oh, gosh. It's like picking between my children.

Yeah.

Five Points Pizza in East Nashville is fantastic. Mafiosis is pretty good. Yeah, I enjoy that one. If I was going, like, chain, like, if we had to pick it up. Mellow mushroom.

Oh, yes.

Yes.

I almost feel guilty how much we didn't know mushroom. I'm like, it's a chain, but we go non stop.

Okay. Have you been to me Squared?

No.

Yeah. So it's down in the gulch.

Okay.

If you're not a Nashville person downtown. And it is like deep dish, not Chicago deep dish. Right. Because we're very specific that, you know, Chicago deep dish sauces on top, all things.

No, I'm not about sauce on top. Yeah.

This is more like Detroit style, which is a real style question. But it is a real style, and that's Emmy squared. And that pizza is so good.

All right, what do you comment on? Well, so. So I love Desanos.

Oh, yeah, That's a great one.

I've been designers a few. Right near. Where is that? Near Vanderbilt. Ish.

Yeah, it's more like midt. Closer. Downtown. Yes.

Yeah. Desano is dynamite.

Yeah, that's great. Yeah. And good pizza.

Yeah. And I feel like I'm getting up to Nashville every I don't know, three or four months now. So now I gotta, like, try a new place every time.

Emmy squared.

Put that one on the list. All right, great. So you grew up in the household of Dave and Sharon Ramsey. Take us back to 18 year old Rachel. I'm very curious about your path and decision to work here. So you're 18 years old, you're graduating high school, you're heading off to college. And did you know that you were going to come back and work in the family business alongside your dad?

No, not at that point. I mean, we grew up in it, so I obviously had this love for the business itself. I mean, from working in like the shipping department as like a little kid on, I mean, it just like was a part of our life. And I actually started traveling with my dad at 15 to all of like, he had these huge live events they used to do on Saturdays called the tonal money makeover events. And I would spend a lot of my weekends in high school traveling with him and pitching our kids products that we had at one of the breaks.

Oh, that's great.

And so I remember being 15, 16, 17, you know, sophomore, junior, senior in high school and loving it. And I mean, this would be like with sometimes, you know, 10, 12,000 people in an arena and learning that public speaking was not fun for most people in life. I remember thinking, oh, that's interesting because I really enjoyed it. And granted, it was an easy crowd. I mean, they've like paid a ticket.

Yeah.

To hear him and as his daughter. So it's not like I was going in, trying to like swoo over a bunch of business owners or something. Like this was an easy crowd. But I loved it. I really did. And so I had that in my mind. I probably didn't make the connection that I would use that in my career at the time by any means at 18. Cause I went to college, did sorority, did young life, met my husband there. We started dating sophomore year. I mean, I was just kind of just doing life. But around that time in college is when I realized that people my age, whether it was my friends from high school that I was still in communication with or meeting new people at the University of Tennessee, but money would just come up randomly in conversation and, you know, people would start talking about their credit cards or their student loans. And I remember thinking, you know, I'm 19 years old. Like, I don't have all the answers, but I know that there's a better way to do this because I had traveled and talked to so many people previously that were getting out of the mistakes they made in college. Right. And so, I mean, I remember thinking, wow, okay, so if I have this, like common sense knowledge that obviously some of my peers don't have, they've never been taught this stuff, I could take that and take speaking that I love and like create this maybe type of career and plug in. And so it really wasn't until my senior year of college when I really got serious of, okay, what do I want to do? And it just sounded fun, which sounds kind of just like generic and probably very millennial esque, but it did. I was like, oh, it'd be so fun to travel into high school students and college students and give this message. And so we now have Ramsey personalities. And so Chris Hogan, Kristy Wright, Anthony o', Neill, myself. And there's kind of this formula now that we have, but we didn't have that 10 years ago when I joined the team.

Yeah, so you didn't have that. So what did that look like? So you're graduating from. You went to the University of Tennessee?

Yes.

Yeah. So you're graduating, you're figuring out what's next. You don't have a personality program. So what did those first few years look like working here at Ramsey Solutions?

Yeah, so I was a project manager in our publishing department for some of our kids products and our curriculum team of a high school curriculum. So I helped on sales calls with that. So I kind of split my time. And then when a random high school in like Nebraska was like, we'd love to have someone come speak, they're like, well, Rachel, can I jump on a plane and go? So it was like super organic. There wasn't a big formula to it. But we've obviously gotten more sophisticated over the years as a company. But that's where it started. And I love it because it started with zero pressure. Because some people do think like, okay, you're Dave Ramsey's kid, you were expected to work, or that there was some type of pressure. And I remember talking to mom and dad and I remember them even saying, dad, specifically, he was like, do you understand if you choose to come work here, it's gonna be harder for you to work here than just go find something else. So, like, you need to understand that you're gonna work twice as hard as everyone else because you already are like a few rungs below the ladder on people's, you know, just because you're the boss's kid, it happens. And so you. It's kind of, it's gonna be harder I remember thinking, oh, because my sister. My older sister didn't work at the company.

Yeah.

And I was like, okay.

Okay.

So it was not assumed by any means that we would just join. So some people have that.

That's interesting. That's interesting that when you had that inkling of, like, I think I want to do this, that your dad wasn't immediately like, oh, my gosh, this is great.

Yes.

He was like the heir apparent.

Yeah.

Seen the light. No, it was like, you really need to make sure that this is what you want to do. And especially a family business. It's like, if you're not called to it, you're miserable, then your relationships are miserable. The family dynamic is miserable. People at work are miserable. I mean, you know what I mean? Like, the complications can just be, like, tenfold than just a normal team member. Right. So it was a discussion for sure.

And I think there's a lot of wisdom there, too, in saying yes very slowly and very carefully. Right. I think a lot of times we commit to things without fully thinking through the implications. And, you know, we read in scripture, our yes is to be yes. If we're to commit to something, we need to count the cost, consider what it's actually going to take to do it.

Well.

So that's very interesting. So.

Hey.

So I think it's hard to find somebody who doesn't know Dave Ramsey and increasingly hard to find somebody who doesn't know Rachel Cruz. But most people, I think, don't realize the magnitude of a Ramsey Solutions or Lampo Licensing, the parent company, the family business. So we're sitting here in this office. You guys are close to a thousand employees now, is that right?

Yes. Like, close to 900.

Which is. Which is wild. You've built this incredible space here in Franklin, Tennessee. How do you. When somebody asks you for an overview of the company and what these thousand people do every day.

I know. Yeah.

How do you succinctly describe that?

It's a great question. Well, our mission statement is that we give hope to everyone in every walk of life. And so we're obviously more known for the money piece of that. Getting people out of debt, helping them get out of debt, and living on a budget, all of that. But we've expanded into career and other aspects for sure. But, yeah, it's a big deal. I mean, if someone really wants to sit down, I mean, I'll walk them through, like, the 14P and LS if they really want to know, like, this is how it's structured.

I would love to know In a separate conversation.

That's right. That's right. But yeah, most people have no idea the size of it, which is fine. We always laugh.

We're like.

I mean, most people think the Dave Ramsey show's done like in a trailer somewhere off the side of the road. You know what I mean? Like, it's been a huge blessing because we've been able to touch people in every, every aspect of their life and especially with their money. And it's a fun company to work for because people are so passionate about it. Like, when you have your. Why, no matter what you're doing in life, it just brings fuel and passion and energy to what you do. And so it's. Yeah, it's. It's 900 people all on the same mission, which is really exciting.

I love we're gonna talk about that mission a bit. But so you mentioned this term Ramsey personality. You are within this bucket of Ramsey personalities here. Can you tell our listeners who don't know what in the world is a Ramsey personality? What does a Ramsey personality do?

Sure. This is kind of part of really the succession plan of the company because it's all personality based was on just Dave himself and so realizing, okay, when something happens to him, because it will. It's not an if, it's a will, what happens? Like, what happens to the company? What happens to the message? What happens to the hope that we're delivering to America? And a one to one handoff is really difficult. And so from message bearer, you could say to message bearer, like, you know, people don't receive that as well. And so it's like, hey, what if we spread it out and we had people in that have. That literally have different personalities, we have different views, we have the same principles, but that we go about the message a little differently and we can expand into other areas of people's lives, like personal development and career and parenting and marriage. So, yeah, that's kind of what. What took place. That was, that was the main purpose behind why we have multiple personalities. Multiple Ramsey personalities. I know, it's always kind of fun. It's kind of a funny, like play on words.

Right.

And so, yeah, it's. It's really a big part of the succession plan of the company, but mostly because we want to just continue to deliver hope to people and that if something happens today, for when it does that. Not that it just doesn't stop. Yeah, we want to continue it on.

And how do you describe to people who don't know you the content vert. Right. That you're really focused on what are you teaching on in the Rachel Cruze show and everything else that you're doing.

Yes. So it is personal finance based for sure. But just honestly, the season I'm in which I'm so grateful I get to create content out of things that I love. So I've been married almost 10 years in December, two kids, one on the way. And being a working mom, like all of my content kind of comes out of my life and what I enjoy too. So it's everything as tactical as we talk about grocery shopping. I mean, I just did a segment on like foods to freeze to save money. Like Dave's probably not going to do that all the way to retirement investing. I mean, so it kind of runs the gamut and kind of my line that I tell people is like, learn to control your money and create a life that you love. So how do you create a life you love? Letting money be the tool that fuels it versus money being the thing that's in control of your life. You're controlling it instead of that.

So I've always loved and respected your dad as a world class personality, a world class founder. I mean, I think your dad's an exceptional entrepreneur. I'm an entrepreneur myself. But at the end of the day, I have a hypothesis about this. I want you to tell me if I'm wrong. I actually think his superpower is something more broad. I think he's a truly world class teacher. Like that's the thing that seems to be the overarching thing that's made this thing grow. I mean, you guys teach content. Would you agree with that?

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. He's a fabulous teacher. Taking a subject that is so intimidating and so complicated to a lot of people. Thirty years ago when, I mean, there was Larry Birkett, there are a few people in the space. But taking it in this common sense approach and kind of with his Dave personality of being a little bit bold, a little bit in your face, some attitude, it created just common sense for people that they could actually grasp. And so when you do that well, you're a really good teacher. So he's been able to create that brilliantly.

Is teaching the thing that you're pursuing mastery of in your craft and your career here at Ramsey Solutions?

That's a good question. I would say yes, because every piece of content we put out is one that hopefully is instructional and inspirational. And so part of that.

Yeah.

Is teaching someone something new. And again, there's always new listeners and money is continuing. It is again, not just A complicated subject, but money. It's about your behavior change. It's less about the head knowledge. You can, I can teach you the principles and you can get them pretty quickly. Most anyone can. Again, their common sense. But walking people through the life change and their behavior change is what I think we're really good at as well.

It's also highly practical. Right. So all the personalities here are very inspiring. But at the end of the day, if you're reading a book, if you're watching a speech, if you're listening to an episode of the podcast, it's also highly practical. You guys are good teachers.

Yes.

Yeah.

We always say our content, we want to be instructional and inspirational. Because if it's just inspirational, you walk away like, that was amazing. I don't know what they said, but it was so good. Or if it's just instructional, you're going to fall asleep. So it's like, okay, so how do you make it all tie together? So that is one of the goals that we have.

So you've been in the business for how many years now?

10, almost 10.

Yeah.

So I'm curious, and obviously you've been studying the business for longer than that. Growing up in the Ramsey household, what have you learned from your dad as to what it takes to become a masterful teacher? Like what are the elements that separate world class teachers from simply good or adequate teachers?

I think one of the benefits that we have is we get to be face to face with our customer a lot. And so whether that's via the Dave Ramsey Show, Chris Hogan and I just did an hour of that live because Dave's out of town right now. And so we're interacting with callers, or you're on the road and you're in a book signing line, or you're at an event teaching from stage, and you can get people's reaction. Literally. Having your customer right there all the time and you're engaging with them constantly has been one of the best benefits. We always say that even just about Dave is like our CEO of the company is talking to our customer three hours a day on his radio show. And having that element of connection and knowing what works, what doesn't, even something as simple as a joke. When you're teaching, right, you're telling a story and sometimes it falls flat and you're like, okay, but you learn it in real time. That's one of the benefits that we have that's a little unique. Not everyone has that ability to just interact with their customer constantly. Constantly. And that's what we do. And so that's a huge part, I think, of being a good teacher is not just knowing the information, but knowing how people are receiving it.

So my next book, Random House, was releasing in January called Master of One. And it's basically all about how do you master the thing that you're pursuing vocationally? And one of the things that kept coming up in interview after interview for the book and research book after research book and academic study is masters of any craft deliberately seek out feedback rapidly. They get feedback all the time. I mean, I think the best picture this is like stand up comedy, Right. So when you're doing a routine and getting feedback real time and then going the next night, you guys do that. Yes, right. That. That's one of the benefits of that live radio show.

Yes, for sure. Yeah. That feedback. And for people that are working close to you that you trust. Right, right. When they come in and they're like that. That just didn't land, you know, to take it like, okay, that's good to know.

Do you have those people here, even though you're the boss's daughter?

Oh, yes.

You're these people who come to you and say hard truths.

I have three layers technically, between me and the CEO of Dave. So someone within those layers will have. Will have thoughts about different things. But it's great because I'm like, yeah, I want. I want to know, right? Even Elizabeth, our publicist, she's sitting right over there. But I'm like, we'll do. We'll get done with the media hit. And she'll be like, okay, this was. This landed so, so good next time you could do this. And it's like, yeah, that's great. Like, I. You want to know what you can perfect. Because you want to be the best that you can, right?

Do you watch yourself speak? Do you watch old episodes of the show?

I hate it.

You hate it. But do you do it?

I will. For the Rachel Cruze show.

Yeah.

Speaking. That was one of the actual requirements when I was out doing my high school assemblies in Nebraska or wherever I was early on is I took a flip camera and a tripod.

A flip camera.

That's amazing. Yeah. And I traveled with it and I set it up at every event. And that was one of the requirements. I had to watch myself back. And I did that for about three years straight. Every single talk for three years. And it's terrible, right? I mean, you just cringe at yourself on stage. You're like, oh, that was so terrible. Why am I being so awkward? With my hands. You know what? You know, you see all these things, but you're your worst critic, and you can perfect some things really quickly when you see it. So I've gotten a little bit out of that habit. I hate to say it, I should get back in, probably with speaking, but the Rachel Cruze show, I do try to watch every episode before it releases.

Really? The whole thing?

Yes.

What are you taking notes?

28, 30 minutes, and I have a great team around me, and they, you know, they've filtered out probably all the crazy stuff, too.

What were those things early on that you were taking notes on? Be like, man, I've got to fix this with speaking.

Yeah, I was fast.

Yeah.

And I was probably. I'm probably fast in this interview. I'm a fast talker. So that was big. My pacing almost didn't. Like this was a critique.

Physical pacing.

Physical pacing from the stage. Because I was like, I'm movement and I move my hands and all that. But it almost wasn't on pace with what I was talking about. Like, I was talking about something serious, but I was, like, walking so fast. And so I had to learn to be comfortable. It was probably a nervous tick. And so to be still at certain points. Right. And just physically stand still and have those moments with the audience when you're making a point because it's so much more effective versus it feels like you're, like, playing tennis or something. That's one of the feedback I got from someone. They're like, it looks like you're playing tennis.

Yeah. Have you heard of this podcast called Mortified? No. So my editor was telling me about this yesterday. It's the funniest concept I've ever heard for a podcast. So they take people who are adults now and they have them read their, like, teenage diaries.

Like, oh, my God.

I'm like, oh, that's kind. That's what I would feel like if I had a teenage diary. Watching myself speak and critiquing myself speaking.

That's right.

Like, I'll never listen to an episode that. Nah, I'll listen to an episode. Episode of the podcast because I want to get better. But that's what. That's what masters do. So you've helped thousands, millions of people budget their money. Right. Get control of their personal finances. I'm really curious about how you budget your time. Right. So you've got a lot going on. You're helping build this venture. Your personality, your teaching, your mother, your wife. How practically do you budget out your days?

Early on, when I Decided to have kids. I had the discussion with our board and some leadership team and my dad, because I was like, if I continue my schedule. My travel schedule was nuts before kids. I was like, I can't continue to do that and be a mom. How much were you traveling at the time? Oh, gosh, I was gone probably 30, 30 times a year.

Wow.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was a lot.

So you come to the board, you're like, I can't do that.

Yeah. I want to have kids, and I just can't keep that lifestyle. But traveling is part of my job. I mean, speaking. That's. That's a big part of it. So what does that balance look like? So they were great on some of the flexibility, which was huge for me, of, like, in the office. So that was a big turning point for me because I feel like having that balance. And we say balance, but, you know, depends on the season.

I know what you mean.

Depends on the season. Yeah. It allows me to be intentional in the work days, and then on the days home, I can be mom.

Yeah.

So I'm really thankful for that. And Christy Wright, who's one of our Ramsey personalities, she. She always says that life balance is not about being 50. 50. It's about being 100% present.

Yeah.

And so learning with my time to get out ahead of it. So being really like Winston, my husband, I. We are master schedulers. Like, even our family and his family and our friends, they laugh at us because even, like, even with kids, planning out kids, we're like, okay, here's our timeline. Here's what we like. I mean, it is. It is wild, but we have to, because then our time gets away, and it's same thing with money, right? Yes, exactly. Exactly. So just being so. We're super proactive. We're really good at calendars, and we communicate everything. And it's funny because my husband's an introvert. I'm an extrovert. Are you into the enneagram at all?

So now that I'm traveling to Nashville, I feel an obligation.

You guys are Nashville people.

You guys are oddly obsessed.

I know we are.

So I know my number, if that's what you're asking.

Okay, what is it?

I'm a three.

I am two.

Yeah. Okay.

Okay. So. So most of us, we enjoy doing things. We can. We can make changes on the fly if, you know, were effective, all of that. This is kind of getting off topic, where my husband, he's a five. He's the investigator, and so, like, for him, making plans on the fly. It's a stress point. He's like, he just doesn't do well with it. And so we've learned that in marriage. Like, okay, let's like, literally book out our month and our nights and say, okay, what nights are we home? What nights are we out? Like, so all that to say super proactive. And then when I'm at the place, whether it's work, dinner with friends, with the kids, back to that quote, I'm 100% present. Where I am is where I really, really try to be. And, yeah, that's it. But it's. I mean, it's. It's messy.

Right? I mean, so I'm the same way. Right. So I, I plan out my days meticulously. I have calendar templates for different days of the week. More freaks.

It's like a control thing. I love my schedule.

It totally is. So what does your calendar look like today? Like, from the moment you woke up to the moment you go to bed? Take us through a day in Rachel Cruz's life.

A day. Okay, well, I'm 34 weeks pregnant, so I'm usually. I like, have like, pregnancy insomnia. So I'm up anywhere from like 4 o' clock ish every morning because I just can't sleep. So go get a bowl. If you literally want to know my, go get a bowl. I go get a bowl of cereal every morning around 4 o' clock because I'm starving.

I love it. Yeah.

Winston and I, my husband and I, we've gotten a great routine. It sounds super spiritual and we're like, not perfect at it. So I don't want us to sound like such like a Bible answer, but it's true. But we spend time in the Word together. We've been really intentional with prayer together as a couple. We've not been great at that in the past, but we're in a really good season of that right now, which is so great. Like, that, like, oh, it changes so much in such a great way for your day. So we spend time there before the girls get up. Then around 6:30, the two little ones are usually coming down and talking and starting parenting around 6:30.

Their energy's at 100%.

That's it.

6:30.

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then get ready for work. Come into work again. Meetings and show. I'm shooting a ton of Rachel Cruze show content right now is because I'm out on maternity leave for four months coming up. So, like, a lot of days are filled with content for that.

What's the first thing you do when you get to the office.

When I get to the office depends on the day. We have company wide meetings Mondays and Wednesday mornings, so I'll usually come right in, go straight to those meetings. I mean, these days I'm not even at my desk really. I mean, I'm like going. I'm like starting off at a meeting.

Right.

Honestly. So, yeah.

Yeah.

I don't know if that's good or bad.

I think it's. I think it's a season, like you said. I'm really curious what. So you mentioned praying with your husband. Something my wife and I aren't great at. Something I want to get better at. I'm curious if you guys pray together for the business for Ramsey Solutions, or if you on your own pray for the business. And if so, what do those prayers look like? Like, obviously you want to pray that the business grows, but what's. What are those other dimensions to how you think about praying for Ramsey Solutions?

Yeah, I think it depends on the season. I mean, recently, because of like this being Winston's job, the building itself literally moving in, it was a lot around that, of just like peace and direction and clarity when there was a lot of high stress points and all of that. So honestly, we probably get. Our prayers literally are more tactical with day to day and upcoming projects that we have versus pulling out in the scope of it all. But there have been events, things that have pulled both of us. We both sit on our operating board and so we have visibility into everything going on in the company. And so, yeah, there's definitely been events that have kind of pulled us up and our prayers around that. But these days, probably because I'm so far. I hate to say it's such a. It's such a. This episode of your podcast is going to be so niche because I'm like, If I wasn't 36 weeks pregnant, a lot of my answers would be so different.

But it is.

It's like give Rachel the strength to get through the day kind of thing, you know, so it's more tactical day to day stuff. Our prayers of what it looks like in the projects.

Yeah, in large part it's like survival. Like, please get me to the finish.

Can I say that?

Yeah, yeah, no, that's. I totally get it. It. So the official Ramsey Solutions mission statement. Right. Reading this to you, I know you know by heart, right? So Ramsey Solutions provides biblically based common sense education and empowerment that give hope to everyone in every walk of life. So you mentioned biblically based. I'm curious how does God's Word shape the content that you're producing right under your personal brand, rachelcruise.com how do you think about how God's word influences that content?

Well, on the foundation of the money principles, it's. I mean, it's everything. It's what it's built on. I mean, everything from. And half's the wiser stores of choice, food and oil. A foolish man devours all he has. Save money. What does saving money look like? And you can go in thousand different directions with that. You know, the borrower is slave to the lender when we talk about debt. And so all of our money principles, it is based on common sense biblical approach. So everything that we come out of is a springboard out of scripture. And you can touch into more of, you know, the heart aspects of money too, which we do on the show as well. But I would say the foundational principles of what we teach comes from scripture. I mean, it is scripture. It's biblically based.

And is there. So you published this contentment journal, right? When did that come out?

Yes, that came out earlier this year.

Earlier in 2019.

2019, yeah, April of 2019.

I forget when my books come out, too. I totally get it.

I'm going to blame the baby on everything in this podcast that goes wrong.

Yeah, absolutely.

Just because I'm pregnant.

So I'm curious, what led you to commit to that topic? I think it's a big topic. It's a big felt need. This, this lack of content in our lives and our careers, was there a spiritual element of that for you? Like, how did your faith kind of influence the development of that content topic?

Well, it came out, honestly, more out of my last book, Love youe Life, Not Theirs, because there was a whole part on a theme of comparison living. And when you're not content with yourself, you're constantly going to compare your life to everyone else's. And so that contentment piece was one that a lot of people continue to bring up and we're asking questions about it really is a felt need. So diving into that topic, specifically of contentment, it was an important one because it's the heart issue, the heart foundation of money. And a lot of people's money problems comes out of being discontent and looking for other things to fulfill them and realizing that stuff is not going to make you happy. And we know that a lot of people know that in their brain, but yet we don't live it out. And so money problems are a symptom of usually a greater issue And I think in our culture today, I'm like, we are just constantly bombarded with, buy this, do this, look this way. It's all about you, your image, you know, what you're doing, clothes you're wearing, vacations you're taking. Oh, and if you're not happy with you, here's some social media so you can see what everyone else is doing out there that you get to. That you're missing out on. And so it's just. It's this. This. It really is a very materialistic feeling more than ever, I feel like, in our culture today. And so I'm like, man, we are just bombarded with just stuff. And I'm like, if we can just get crap out of our lives, stop going into debt for stuff we don't need, and fix our situation with our money. But man, in the process, learning to be content with where we are and learning to say, you know what? God has me in this place for a reason. And godliness with contentment is great gain. And having that gain in your life, in your heart, spiritually speaking, that's when you truly, I think, can start to win with money. It's very hard to win with money when you're not content. It's hard to sacrifice your lifestyle and get that stuff out of your life and get out of debt when you're not content. It's hard to save money when you're not content. It's hard to give when you're not content. And so contentment is a huge piece, but it's so hard to find in our world today. And so it's. It is. It's a big topic, like you said earlier, but kind of touching on it and learning that, like, it's a progression. And so I talk about how it starts with being grateful. In a heart that's filled with gratitude, there is no room for being discontent when you're just grateful for where you are and what you have. I'm like, that covers a multitude of sins. So I'm like, starting with gratitude. So in the journal, we spend 30 days in gratitude and then move to 30 days of humility. And I kind of based it off CS Lewis's quote where he said that humility is not thinking less of yourself, it's thinking of yourself less. And I love that because it kind of is this picture of, like, you get to, like, look up and look out and see other people. When you start to live your life where other people are valued and you want to serve, like, your life becomes richer, and then being Content is the next 30 days after that, which is just an. Not to say it's an easy slide in, but it kind of is. Once you've mastered gratitude and humility, there's just this. This new outlook you have on life.

Have you ever read anything by Tim Keller? Yes. Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

I love Tim Keller, so I'm a huge Keller fan. So the first Keller book I ever read was this little tiny book. I don't even know if it was traditionally published. It might just be an E book.

Not the Prodigal God.

Not the Prodigal God, no. Which I love that. Yeah, we can talk about that.

Rock your world.

Yes. No, it's this little book that you would love. It's called the Freedom of Self Forgetfulness.

Oh, I haven't heard of it.

Yeah, I think it was only an ebook, but I read this thing in, like, I don't know, an hour and a half sitting down my couch. I'm like, I have to read everything this guy's ever written about. And it was exactly that.

It is.

You know, humility is not thinking less of ourselves. It's just thinking about ourselves less. Like, there's this great passage of Paul in the New Testament talking about how his identity isn't what he believes about himself, but it's also not what other people say about himself. It's in who Christ says he is. So it's this dying to self, forgetting about self and living in humility and thinking of others first. So I've been learning a lot about Ramsey Solutions over the last few months. Read through some of the core values. I think one of my favorites is. And you guys don't, like, expound upon this deeply in some of your external documents, but I'm hoping you will here. Yeah. Is this crusade core value? This idea that, quote, we are crusaders doing work that matters here at Ramsey Solutions. Can you talk about what you guys mean by that?

Yes. We look at ourselves as going into battle a lot because there is a toxic money culture with. With banks and credit card industries that have way more money than we do and a lot of influence on America and the culture that we sit in, to the point that they've convinced people over decades that to not have a credit card is weird. You know what I mean? Like, we're fighting against these cultural norms to speak truth and give people a plan and peace. And so it is. It's battle. And so that's kind of how we look at ourselves. It's like it's a crusade. Like, you can't go Intimate. You can't go in passive. You have to go in knowing your conviction, knowing what you believe, and teaching it unapologetically. And so that's it. And then the work that matters. We say that all the time. We do work for people that aren't here. So when we're. As a staff meeting. I mean, it said almost every staff meeting. And people probably get tired of it. I hope they don't. But it's true. I'm like, this building was built even for not just Ramsey Solutions, but for the people outside these walls and doing work. And you can say this about any line of work. You could find value in anything you do out there as a listener. But for us just to focus on that, like, we do work that matters. Like, we're not just collecting a paycheck here. We're doing stuff that is changing people's lives. It's changing their family trees, the way that they talk to their kids, even to the point of what they do financially. And all these aspects when it comes to money, when you can give people hope in this area, that's so hopeless for a lot. That's it. And so just being reminded that, yeah, it's a battle and we're doing it because it matters.

Yeah. I got quite a few friends here at Ramsey Salute now. And one thing I've been really impressed with. One, a lot of them are very serious, very faithful followers of Jesus Christ. But secondly, they very much view the work they do here as ministry.

Right.

Even if it's not overtly evangelical, even if you're not preaching Jesus's name at every event or in every book, the work you're doing is helping to restore creation, to restore people's perspective on money, on career, on contentment, and living in line with God's word. And I think that's a really, really beautiful thing. And I think it. What. It's what inspires so many people that work here. So thank you for that. So, all right, three questions to wrap up. I like to ask every guest. What books are you recommending the most or buying as gifts for others right now?

Ooh, business wise, I would say. I'll say prodigal. God's a great one. I'm thinking about that. Top of my head. No, but hungry. Humble Smart is one that we've been talking a lot about as a company and leadership team that we used. That's a great one. It's short, it's. But it's so applicable. And if you have someone on your team that, like, something's Just not working those three areas. Humble, hungry, smart. When you look, it's just, it's one of those, like, light bulb moments where like, oh, that's so good. So I'd say business wise, I love that one.

That's good. Who do you know who's a Christian, not in, quote unquote, full time ministry?

Yeah.

That is really exceptional at what they do.

Okay. It's not a household name, but I love her. And so she's on top of my mind right now because she has a book coming out. I just talked to her. Paula Faris from Good Morning America. She's an anchor and she did the weekend Good Morning America. She was one of the head anchors there. And so she actually stepped away from that to be with family. And she's writing a whole book on her intersection of faith and her career.

Interesting.

Yes. And I love media. It's like one of my favorite parts of my job. I love doing, going up to New York and doing shows and all that. It's so fun for me. I love it. And so people in that world that are believers are always so intriguing to me. And she's one. I love her. And as a, and as a mom and, you know, she's kind of in a season ahead of me in life, so. Yeah, she's. She's fantastic.

That sounds like that'd be a great conversation. Hey, she's promoting a book, so I.

Mean, I know that's right. I know. I'm sure she'll be probably like, thanks, Rachel.

Exactly. Exactly. All right, last question. What one piece of advice would you give to somebody who, like you, is pursuing mastery of this art of teaching specifically and communicating ideas and content, I.

Would say get around and watch and consume the ones that you relate to. Because there's some teachers that you see and you're like, oh, wow, they're a great teacher, but that's not my personality or like, that's not my gifting that style. But find someone that's like kind of with your personality that you see and you're like, okay, I could emulate that. Like, I could learn from them. Because a lot of, especially with teaching, it comes out of your own story and your own life. And so being yourself is so important, being authentic. Because if you're trying to be someone else, it's very draining and you don't want your work to be draining. So finding someone that you can kind of relate to, even on a personality level and be like, okay, yes. And learning from them, I would say.

I love that, Rachel. I Just want to thank you for the work that you and the team are doing here. Thank you for serving the Lord and serving the world and your customers through just the ministry of of excellence. Right? You guys do such an excellent job in everything you do. Thank you for helping people live in line with God's word and what God has to say about money and finances. And thank you for convincing these thousand people here that their work is important, not just temporally. Eternally. It's significant. It matters. Hey, if you want to learn more about Rachel and her work, visit rachel cruz.com you want to spell that for us?

Yes. C R U Z E C R.

U Z e dot com. Rachel, thanks for hanging out with me.

Yeah, thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.

What a great conversation with Rachel. Thanks again to her. Thanks for the entire team at Ramsey Solutions. They were so hospitable, setting us up there in their studios. I hope you guys enjoyed this episode as much as I enjoyed producing it. Hey, if you're enjoying the podcast, make sure you subscribe to the Call to Mastery so you never miss an episode that we release in the future.

If you're already subscribed, do me a huge favor.

Take 30 seconds, go review the podcast. That's the number one thing that you can do to help us get this content into the ears of more people. If you have no idea how to do that, how to subscribe to a podcast, how to review a podcast, no worries. Head over to jordanraynor.com podcast jordanraynor.com podcast where we've made it really easy, as easy as we possibly can make it for you to do both of those things. Hey, thank you so much for listening to the Call to Mastery. I'll see you next time.