Sam Acho (Sports Analyst at ESPN)

Today's episode will begin in three minutes. But first I want to tell you about something crazy I'm doing for my new book, five Mere Christians. I've never seen an author do this before, but I'm giving a money back.

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A risk and I'm gonna de risk.

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Here's the second reason. I'm just confident you're gonna love this book. My friend Mark Batterson said, quote, five Mere Christians proves that biographies can be extremely entertaining, profoundly helpful, and mercifully short. If you're looking for a book that combines the punch of a great sermon with the pace of a great thriller, this is it. Highly recommended.

End quote. But here's the thing.

In order to qualify for this money back guarantee, you got to do two things. Step one, pre order five Mere Christians in any format, hardback, ebook, audiobook, whatever. And then step two, go to 5merechristians.com and fill out the form on that page. And that's it. But you got to do it by midnight Eastern Time on May 9 by filling out that form. You'll also get all of the pre order bonuses listed on 5 mereChristians. Calm and be entered to win this crazy, epic trip for two to Europe. So visit 5merechristians.com right now to sign up. Now, please enjoy today's episode.

Hey everybody. Welcome to the Mere Christians podcast. I. I'm Jordan Raynor.

How does the gospel influence the work of mere Christians?

Those of us who aren't pastors, we're not religious professionals, but those of us.

Who work as fast food workers or.

Statisticians or pipe fitters.

That's the question we explore every week. And today I'm posing it to my.

New friend, Sam Acho. He's a nine year NFL veteran linebacker.

Currently working as an ESPN analyst and.

A best selling authority. Sam and I recently sat down to talk about why vulnerability is the key.

To freedom in your work. We talked about the power of Christlike.

Joy in the workplace and why every mere Christian's work matters deeply to God. I think you guys are really going to enjoy this conversation with Sam Acho. Sam Acho, welcome to the Mere Christians podcast.

It's good to be on with you, Jordan.

Hey, so I gotta ask because I'm in Tampa Bay, you spent a year down here, right?

I did, I did. And it was interesting because of how warm it was on Christmas. Now mind you, my first couple years in the NFL I played in Arizona. So I was like, I was like 90 degrees on Christmas Eve. I think one Christmas night Evening it was 100 degrees and I was like, wow, this is hot. That's for the next four years in Chicago. And Christmases were negative 3 degrees. It felt like negative 100. And then my last year was in Tampa and I was like, I remember though I forgot how warm it can be in the wintertime. And so yes, I did spend time in Tampa and I really enjoyed it.

Man, I've lived here pretty much all my life. I've spent every Christmas of my life here in Tampa. I can remember, ah, cold Christmas in 36 years.

One of them, one of them.

So welcome to Tampa, Florida. So hey man, I'm really curious what your testimony is.

When did you come to follow Jesus? How did that happen?

Sam?

My parents, my story starts with my parents, that my parents were born and raised in Nigeria. My dad came to America because he was a pastor, a preacher. He was, he was a guy. I say the guy, which is not like it's common, but he was a guy who was like standing on top of buses preaching the gospel.

That's awesome.

That was his thing. And funny enough, I don't know exactly when he came to the Lord. All I know is that he came from a family. Seven siblings and one passed away. So eight siblings. And he found out that his dad had died out of nowhere. And he came back, he said, you know, I'm going to go to the war, I'm going to find a way and support my family, et cetera, et cetera. And something happened. I don't know if it was before the war, after the war in Nigeria, one of the Biafran war, something happened and he met Jesus and he came back to his family. He's the oldest son. He's supposed to be the provider and the protector. Now that your dad is gone, it's your responsibility. And he came back to his family, his mom included in siblings, and said, hey, guys, I'm gonna follow Jesus. I'm gonna go be a pastor. I know pastors don't get paid, but I need to go do this. Wow. And they looked at him like, dude, you're crazy. And he's like, I mean, I gotta do it. So he said, God will make it work. And so they're looking at him, he's still like, I don't care. I'm gonna do it. And some missionaries from America came to Nigeria to go and preach the gospel to people in Nigeria. And while they're going to these different villages and cities and states, they see this man playing his guitar and telling people about Jesus preaching the gospel on top of a bus. That was my dad. They said, okay. They said, okay, we don't need to talk to you, you need to come talk to us. Can you come to America and preach to us? And so that's how my parents came to America. But that provides some context into what who I am. My dad, yes, he's a pastor. He's also a marriage counselor. He has a doctorate in psychology. My mom loves Jesus. So I grew up around the word of God, around other believers. I grew up every Saturday morning as a family. We would sing worship songs together, read the Bible, pray every day as a family, morning and night, we would pray. So I grew up in church in so many ways. And it wasn't until probably 12 or so years old where I decided, man, I want to go be baptized. And part of that was I saw my older sisters get baptized. I thought it was cool. So I was like, oh, yeah. So that's kind of when I really said, okay, I believe and I want to follow and all these things. But it wasn't really until college when I could make decisions on my own, that I said, you know what? I'm going to take this Jesus thing for real. I went to the University of Texas. I got there on a football scholarship. And there's a whole story behind that. We can get into it if you'd like. But I ran into a teammate. His name was Trevor Walker. He was a walk on quarterback. Wow. And he was reading his Bible outside of the elevator of the Largest dorm on campus. And mind you, Texas is 50,000 students, 35,000 undergrad. I don't know how many thousand people were at Jester Hall. And I'm thinking, dude, there's, like, girls everywhere. I went to all boys, like, private school. Like, there's like, girl, you're a football player, the quarterback, you're reading your Bible and all the things. It was nighttime. It wasn't like. It was. It was like at night, like, people were going to parties. And I wanted that. I wanted that boldness. Why?

Why did you want that?

Because I knew there was something more than just, oh, wow, you're famous. Oh, wow, you play for the football team. Oh, wow, you're smarter. You're this and all these clicks and these things. I knew there was more. And I wanted Jesus. Like, I knew him, but I wanted to know him in such a way where I wasn't ashamed or wasn't hiding and not, you know, maybe it's subconsciously, but I wanted to be bold enough about him to be reading about him at an elevator where thousands of people are coming in and out and say, man, I want to know more about this God that you serve. That's why I wanted to know more. I wanted to be bold. I wanted to be unafraid, unashamed, uninhibited, as opposed to, oh, wow, you're cool. Oh, you're nice. Or you're this athlete. There was something more.

Thank God for Trevor Walker.

Yeah, man. We called him T. Twang. He was from east Texas, from 903 Eric code. He had a. Not a real old Southern. Yeah, but, you know, from E.T. piney woods, we called him T Twang. Had that Southern twang to him. Yeah. Well, Trevor Walker.

Thank God for Trevor Walker. Hey, I asked you before we recorded why you think your work matters to God, and kind of this, like, template survey we send out to guests. And I loved the simplicity of your answer. You probably don't even remember it. Your answer was like, everything God's children do matters to God.

Right.

I love that so much.

Right.

And I'm assuming that truth has given you a lot of freedom to choose vocations that just make you come fully alive. Like, you're a fully alive guy, Sam. You get that immediately upon talking to you, knowing that nearly any job can glorify God.

Am I reading that right? Do you feel a lot of freedom.

To just choose various vocational lanes because, you know your father cares for you?

Yeah. I mean, what doesn't matter to God?

Yeah.

Like, everything. Everything matters to God. How we sleep, if we sleep well. I was like, if I don't get a good night's sleep, God's not like, oh, whatever. He's like, man, I want my child to sleep well. I have kids, right? My kids, everything they do matters to me. My parents, what I did mattered to them. Whether I was playing football, whether I was academic, how I was as a sibling. Like, all that stuff mattered to my parents because I matter to my parents. I have children. Everything they do matters. No, I'm not saying, okay, you got to go to sleep at this time, wake up this time. But no, you matter. So if you care about something and that matters to you, it matters to me, too. And so you think vocationally, okay, I ended up playing football. Well, football matters to God. No, it's not like, okay, if I pray this long, then my team's going to win. No, but like, dude, you can glorify me in how you play. You can glorify me in how you think. You can glorify me in how you interact with people. So one of my teammates, I played nine years in the NFL, and I was like, I'm going to go be the star and the guy and all. And I played nine years. Long time, I was not a Pro Bowler, though. I was close one year. And I wasn't, you know, whatever, record setter. It was also close a couple of years. But anyways, like, for the record, close a couple years for the record competitor. The coolest part about my time in the NFL is that people came to know the Lord through me and my testimony during and after my time. I was at this conference, like, it's called Professional Athletes Outreach, the Increase Conference for pro athletes. And oftentimes they're married, their spouses, and a teammate of mine who was not a follower of Jesus didn't want to hear anything I had to say. Not only did he come to this conference this year, but years before, when we were teammates, I'd go against him in practice every single day. I would try to live out my testimony and tell him about Jesus. And he was like, dude, I don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear it. Well, he was engaged, and my wife knew his fiance, and his fiance told my wife, hey, tell Sam to keep on talking to him about, not only about Jesus, but about even his comfort, right? And so I was like, all right, I've tried. He said, no. Well, the long and short of it was, a few weeks or months later, this guy who gave me the stone cold no, I'M not going to this Christian thing. Not only does he say he's coming, but he brings his fiance and 10 other teammates come. He gets baptized now he has three kids now he's coming consistently. Right. He's on a different team now. But the greatest part about that was that my nine years in the NFL didn't matter. If I won games or lost games or made Pro Bowls or set records or almost set records, none of that mattered. What mattered was that I mattered. And to my teammates, I mattered. And then because I mattered and because I cared about them, now Jesus mattered to them, and now they're coming to know the Lord, right? So our vocation matters. We may not understand it in the grand scheme, the grand context of things, but God cares about what we care about. Oftentimes, he put those desires in there.

Yes, no doubt. So I'm curious.

What do you think?

Was it that God used in you to bring people like this guy to faith? Like, what did they see that was different about Sam because of your relationship with Christ?

I think I was honest. And the word I started to say was authentic. Authenticity isn't having it all together. And it seems obvious, but it's not. The most authentic situations oftentimes come with confession. Hey, I messed that up. Hey, I'm sorry. Hey, you've seen me in my highs and lows. So this guy played offensive line. I played defensive and outside linebacker. We would go against each other every single day in practice. Sometimes fights would ensue. There were probably words that probably weren't the best words coming out of both of our mouths or even sentiments. But this guy saw me and he knew me even outside of that. He still saw me leading Bible studies with guys. He still saw me spending time. Not even spending time. He just saw me. There was no hiding. And I think he saw that consistency and authenticity and honesty and realized, oh, wow, I don't have to be perfect. Sam's not perfect. But Sam loves Jesus and Jesus loves Sam, and Jesus loves me, too. And so it was this deal of, you see me and you know me. And also, you've seen me grow, you've seen me fall and fail, and you still care for me. We can argue and fight on the field, but you're still going to invite me to come and join this Bible study or invite me to this thing, or you're still going to show up at chapel the night before the games. Not just, like, if you're winning. And it's like, I want a good luck charm. No, like, oh, this Jesus thing. Is real. This Jesus, man, this person is real. This guy's faith is real. So I think what he saw was an authenticity and honesty and a consistency and not a consistency in like, oh, you're always the same every day. But, man, you consistently apologize. Yeah, I mean, you're consistently joyful. Even when we're 1 in 10 as a team or 10 and 1. I think that's what you saw.

Yeah, that's good. I want to come back to authenticity a minute, but first I want to turn our focus to your role at espn. Tell us about this. What do you do in ESPN these days?

Oh, that's awesome. Yes. I love it. I am a college football NFL and now XFL analyst for espn and actually let me stratify those. So I'm a college football analyst. So every Saturday during games, if you turn on ESPN or ESPN2, I'll be one of the guys talking at halftime or post game, evaluating what we just saw. That's what I do for college. For NFL, I'm more. I'm an analyst as well. But it's usually on shows like get up or First Take or SportsCenter or we're just, you know, a daily show talking about what's going on in games or post games, et cetera. Then I started with the xfl. I'm actually a color commentator for the xfl. So I'm actually the guy who's in the booth who's talking you through the game while the game is going on. And so at espn, I do college football, I do NFL and I do xfl, and I've loved all of them.

But now you get to go to the games you don't have to play. You just get to talk about what other people are doing wrong as they're playing.

You say, get to Jordan. It's not what a gig I want. I want to be out there. What a gig.

Now listen, it's funny, as you were talking, I'm like, ah, this is kind of what I do as chairman of the board of the tech startup I used to run, right? It's like board roles are the best. You show up, talk about what's wrong with the business, and then you don't have to fix anything. You don't have to actually, you know, go out there and do the work.

It's hard though, man, because I was on the field before. We did the game a couple of days ago, and I'm in the booth. First game, I was in the booth studying notes, getting storylines, etc. Didn't go down the field, week two, I was like, I need to be down with the players. That's where I belong. So I went down, heard some awesome stories and all the things. Well, this last game I said, I'm going to go down there as well. And I was down there and I was talking to one player who I've been watching who's like, he was the highest graded cornerback in all of the XFL so far this season according to Pro Football Focus, this group that keeps stats. And I talked to him and just I heard the way he talked about the game. This guy used to play for the Green Bay Packers. He's like, man, I learned from Aaron Rodgers, I learned from guys like Sam Shields. These guys are going to be hall of Famers. And he's like, little things that I do, it helps change my game. And I communicate that with my guys, like the guys who follow me. And I'm like, man, I missed that. No, I don't want to be out there. I'm done hitting. But I'm like, there is this deal of like being in the trenches, being in the mud, like getting down and dirty as opposed to just being on the ancillary, talking about it.

Yeah, yeah, you missed that. You missed that fight.

I love that.

Well, tell me, what do you love.

About the role, specifically as a Jesus follower?

Like, when you think about this, like.

How do you approach the role as an analyst differently because of your faith, if at all?

I am me.

Authenticity.

Yes. I just try to be me. And people have said, I don't know if I'm hoping or praying. I think both that I was hoping or praying that this would happen. But I'm known for my smile or my joy. And I wanted that to emanate through the screen. I wanted that to show through the screen. And all of a sudden I'm hearing people say, man, when I watch you, I was at McDonald's a couple of months ago, maybe a year ago. I don't go there often. Right. Seeing some of the. Too many documentaries about it. My kids wanted to go, so we.

Went, hey, no sh in this game.

All right?

I love, I love me some McDonald's.

From time to time. Yes. And I'm there, we're picking up some food and it was on the, on the west side of Chicago, not necessarily the south side, just downtown, Downtown Chicago. And this black Uber eats driver or like 20 something year old dude from like the south side, just Uber eats or whatever, you know, these driving companies. Doordash looks at me and he's like, you Acho. I'm like, yeah. I'm like, yeah, man, nice to meet you. He's like, bro, I don't want to sound weird or anything, but when I watch you on tv, it brings me joy, man. It makes me smile and, like, I don't know. I'm not like, that kind of guy. I'm just saying, man, like, it just hit me because I realized, oh, wow. I don't have to do anything different. I don't have to be preachy or I don't have to. I could just be who God made me to be. And that will emanate through my vocation, through my work. And that's been the best part about bringing Jesus into my job. Yes. Sometimes what's on the screen, but more often it's what's behind the scenes. People don't see. Like, I get access to people who have millions of followers and millions of dollars and all these things, but they're. Sometimes they're lonely.

I get a chance to be a lot of times. I bet.

Exactly. So that's what I enjoy the most now.

And listen, here's what I love about this. Whether or not you had a chance in the moment with the Uber driver to explicitly point him to Jesus with what you're doing on screen matters, because it's planning a desire in people's hearts for that otherworldly joy.

Right.

That is secure regardless of circumstances. And that, man, you're just playing a desire to which Christ is the only answer, right?

Yes. I've been in situations and with people who everyone admires. You're my favorite player. Look at the car you drive. Like, these are my teammates. Yeah. The checks are millions of dollars, and the cars multiple are, like, one of a kind. Yeah. Even on tv. Right. My coworkers, it's like, man, can you believe this guy? Or that guy? I've been in situations like that as well. And I'm realizing, does this satisfy? For me, it doesn't. And now I see for you, it doesn't. So there's got to be something more. And now I'm learning I have that thing right? Like, one of my mentors, his name is Brett Rogers. He leads young life internationally. We just got a new kind of role. But long story short, one of his phrases, he always says, man, I'm the richest man in the world. I'm like, what do you mean by that? Mind you, he doesn't get paid a lot of money. You know what I mean? Like, don't pay him a ton. Yes. Or sometimes fundraise but he's like, man, look at these relationships. Look at my marriage, like my family. I'm the richest man in the world. And I think about that for myself. I feel like, man, I'm the richest man. My wife, we met in Nigeria, and We're going on 10 years of marriage. We have four kids. I get a chance to do what I love. I'm writing books, sharing people, letting people know about Jesus through my work. Right. That's another thing. A cool thing. A cool side note about having a job or doing good at your job is that people listen to you.

Yes. So it's like history is the most winsome thing in the world. Right. You're so good, they can't ignore you. Yes.

Yeah.

You get a platform.

Exactly. So that platform allows me to write. Now, my books. You don't hear about me, and I talk about Jesus. You don't read about Jesus in my books, you know, so.

Yeah. Yeah, I love this. Hey, you've hit on authenticity. Is this what your first book is all about? This book's called Let the World See you, How to Be Real in a World Full of Fakes. What's the core idea of this book? Is it all about authenticity and vulnerability? What is this?

It is. You hit it right on the head. The book's about what it means to be seen, known, and loved, not only by Jesus, but also by those around you. We talked about hiding and being vulnerable and all these things. And I used to hide, dude. I used to hide behind my smile. Hide behind this. Oh, yeah, everything's good. I got all the answers, and I didn't. Didn't have all the answers. Things were not good. And my first book, it really is this idea of man when I'm me and when I'm vulnerable, when I'm real, not only does it free me up, but it frees up those around me. And also, Jesus loves me. God loves me. He loves every bit of me, every part of me. Even in my failures and my flaws, my insecurities. He wants to bring me back. He wants me to worship him. And he doesn't want me to hide and pretend. He wants me to. Like, he already knows me fully and intimately, but he wants me to open up myself to him so I can realize, oh, wow, like, there's a warmth and a love that I get when I really allow God to see all of me and not try to hide it. Think about the garden, right? Right after Adam and Eve. They eat from the tree, they go, and what do they do? They hide. And God Knew where they were, sure. But he still says, where are you? Where are you? And we do that. We hide. God knows what we've done. And we're still saying, man, where are you? Where are you? And I feel like he wants relationship with us, intimacy, and that's why our work matters. Okay, well, hey, God, I'm gonna see you on Sunday, but Monday to Friday, I'm doing ESPN and Saturdays, too. So it's like, no, God wants to be in all of it, because he is all of it. Yeah.

What happened?

So you said you didn't used to be vulnerable. You used to hide behind your smile. What happened that led to a passion for this message? Is there a story there?

Yeah, a couple things happened when I was young. I went to a church called Oakland Bible Fellowship. Huge church. Pastor Tony Evans. My dad was a pastor at this church, predominantly black church on the south side of Dallas. Well, I went to a predominantly white school in Dallas as well, so predominantly black church, white school. And I grew up in a Nigerian household, so I was like, who am I, right? Like, what's going on? And I'll go to Nigeria for Christmas and New Year's, all these things. Well, I remember one time at our youth service, you know, teenagers or little kids can be mean and getting made fun of for the clothes I was wearing by some teenagers at the church. And they were laughing, oh, you're wearing this, wearing that. And can you believe. Can you even dress yourself? Mind you, I want to. I wore uniforms in my school. I don't even know how to. I'm trying to figure out. And one of them turns around and looks and says, oh, you can't talk about him. That's Dr. Acho's son. His dad's a pastor here. And I remember this feeling of shame. Like, oh, man, now I've done it. And I got up, you know, they were laughing, you know, he kind of turned back around. I just excuse myself, let me go to the bathroom. And I just sat there, sat there in the restroom stall for, I don't know, 10 minutes, 20 minutes, 30 minutes, just sat there until I felt like it was close to time for that thing to be over.

Yeah.

And I thought that'd be just a one time thing, but it turned out it wasn't. It turned out to be almost like a weekly thing. Every week I'd walk into the, you know, this Wednesday night service, and as soon as I felt, oh, no, they might laugh or make fun of. I'm just gonna excuse myself real quick. 5, 10, 20, 30, until we broke them into our, like. Cause I was with all, like the high schoolers and stuff, you know, I was like, okay, let me go to my seventh grade kid. And so it was this thing of hiding. And fast forward to National Football League. No, I'm not hiding in bathroom stalls. But I still hid behind this Persona of, oh, you're a Christian. Oh, you got all the answers. Oh, Sam, you're this or you're that. And I didn't really let people see me. And it wasn't until a lot of things happened. Right? I mean, all that, like, the body keeps the score.

Yeah.

You cannot hide forever. And I remember sharing with a friend of mine, I just signed this multi year contract, like, big contract, NFL. I made it. I did all the things that, like people say, oh, you did it. And I was sad and I felt alone and I felt like nothing. And personally, I was struggling and I was like, wasn't being kind to my wife, to my kids. There was no joy anymore. And I remember talking to one of my friends and I mean, that was even other insecurities, right? Interpersonal stuff. And I was like, hey, man, it's okay. Training camp starts back up in a week, right. I'll be back with my teammate because, you know, we have our off season and off season was hard. It'll be fine. Like in a week, I'll be back with the teammates, with the guys. Gonna be great. Yeah. And, you know, my marriage will figure it out. And. Yeah, like, not my marriage. Like my issues in marriage. I'll figure it out. You know, my issues with my kids and my aunt might be angry out there. And he says, dude, if that's how you feel right now, we've been in the off season for two months, three months. He said, I'm afraid of what happens when football's taken away from you, when you retire. Like, I'm really concerned. And as I'm sharing some of my struggles and my, like, real deep down stuff, I'm weeping in front of this guy crying at a. At a steakhouse at Gibson Steakhouse in Chicago by the airport. Like, I'm weeping like. And it was just like a little. It was like the, like weeping, you know, like straight up. And this guy's. No, this guy, like, we did like business together. This guy helped me with like my brother. All of a sudden, like, he. Yeah. And he sees me and he's like, I'm weeping and crying and I'm confessing. And he looks at me, he says, and oh, by the way, Sam, it's Really nice to see you. And I'm thinking, like, dude, I just confessed like my deepest, darkest sins. I'm sitting here weeping loudly at a restaurant, snot bubbles and all, and you're saying, it's nice to see me. He said, yeah. And. And he says, you never know, maybe God is writing a book in your life and you may only be on chapter two. He also recommended I go to counseling. Right. This dude is. His wife had just got diagnosed with cancer, young guy, 40 something, year old. And he was just going to see it, talking to a therapist about life and stuff. He's like, maybe you talk to somebody. And so I did. So the very next week, the day we reported a training camp, I report that afternoon, that morning, I'm in a counselor's office, therapist's office, mind you. My dad's a therapist. He's a marriage counselor. So I feel like I know the ins and outs. Right, right. And I go in there, I think I'm going to just check the box and get in, get out, go to practice. And about halfway through, he kind of stops, pauses, and he says, sam, I have a question for you. What do you do when you get angry? And I look at him and like, well, that's easy. I just try not to get angry because I understand that. But what do you do when you get angry? Yeah, look it up again. I said, I just tried not to get angry. He says, well, Sam, everyone gets angry. So what do you do when you get angry? And looking, seeing there was nowhere really to go, to escape, to hide. I began to weep again. Once again, snot bubbles and all ugly cry. And he says, sam, I'm gonna put my hand on your chest. I need you to breathe. Yeah, Sam, I'm gonna put my hand on your stomach, belly breathing. I need you to breathe. Yeah. He leans in and says, it's really nice to see you, Sam. Wow. And, oh, by the way, get used to hearing that. I'm thinking, am I being punked right now? Is this kind of like.

Exactly.

Right.

And then you punch your counselor in the face.

Right, right.

That's what I do when I'm angry.

Exactly.

That's all like wild.

Yeah. So you talk about the moment that was really the moment. He said, man, I don't know if you write. I don't know if you write at all, but I recommend you start writing. I don't know what you do with music, but I recommend you start listening to music. And that conversation, that period of time was seven days, right from the first opening up of Pandora's tear box to the other. That's when it began, man.

So I'm sure it's a long journey of figuring out, how do I do this? Practicing vulnerability and authenticity. What's been the net of that for you? What's different about your life and your work, especially your work, as you've learned to be more vulnerable with those around you?

The net is freedom. I love your vocabulary, right? Like, okay, the gross. What is the gross you take out and it's like the net, what's left over and the result? The net is freedom. Freedom to fail. Freedom to talk freely about my emotions with God and with others. Man, I feel anxious right now, God, what do you want me to do with that, man? I'm afraid, God, why do you want me to do. I read There's a devotional I love called Jesus Calling by Sarah Young. And the day before today, the deal was talking about your problems. Said, yeah, make friends with your problems. You can even give them nicknames and give them to God. And so I started doing that. I'm like, okay. When I'm sad, okay, Sally. Sally's here. You know, I mean, Sally said, hey, God. Hey, Sally, meet God. God, what do you want me to do with Sally, right? Or Frank? When I'm afraid? I just. This, like yesterday I came up with these names. I just read the thing, you know, like, all right, Frank, fear. This fear is here again. All right, Frank. Yeah, yeah, Frank, meet God. Got to be Frank, you know, this thing of like, hey, it's okay to be human. God understands that we're made of dust, but he doesn't want us to hide. He wants us to bring everything. And with trusted friends and people and counselors, therapy, whatever. And so the net has been this freedom to apologize at times, freedom to say, like, hey, coach in football, or, hey, boss, this thing is going on and I'm wondering, can we do it this way or that way? Or, hey, I've got this family thing, like, my son was just born. And as opposed to like, well, nope, I gotta show up. Would you consider. And maybe it's a no, but this freedom of saying, hey, like, I care about X. Is there any space to do why? And if not, I understand, but as opposed to like, okay, I'm finagle my way and I'm going to act like I'm sick so I can go to my son's thing. No, that's been. The net is. It's a freedom to feel and be me.

Yeah.

And I got to imagine that this idea, though, of being vulnerable, being authentic about what's going on.

I think this idea is connected to.

This book that you released today, the day we're recording this podcast on March 7, called Change Starts with you about following your fire to heal a broken world. That's the subtitle, right?

Because if we can't be vulnerable about.

What'S going on in our lives, if we can't isolate. Isolate those things and name those things, we're largely operating at a sense of fear rather than freedom. Right.

Fear that if I do this at work, I can't take that big of.

A risk because others will find out why. About me, or I'll have to reveal Y, X about me, whatever. But once you can be vulnerable about those things, now I'm free to fully engage with the work I believe God's called me to. Is there connect?

Am I making up this connection, or.

Am I onto something here?

No, you're on to something. Jordan Chain starts with you and so let the world see you As a prequel or part one. Right. Chain starts with you is the sequel. It's part two. Let the world see you, let God see you. Like, let God remind you of who you are. And all of a sudden, once you remember who you are in the Lord in Christ, sometimes friends will help you remind you, too. Good friends. Now it's time to, like, start moving and adjusting and adapting and expanding. You know what I mean?

Yeah, totally. I totally get it. Yeah. So, all right. Today's your book birthday for this change starts with you book. What's the 32nd overview of this book? What's this book about?

This book is really about what it means to take pain and turn it into purpose. We love to run from pain. And I feel like God wants to use our pain to change the world. And I say the world. But really, sometimes that change starts with a conversation or a act of compassion. And I think that's what God wants us to do, that following your fire, to heal a broken world. A lot of us, like, we let our fires die out. That God given passion, desire that God gave us, and something that someone did or said, maybe something that we did or said, it caused that fire to dwindle and to dissipate just to be gone. And I feel like God wants that fire to reignite because I feel like once that fire reignites, there's so many people on the other side of the hopes and desires that God put in our hearts and minds and souls.

I love this. So talk to our listener who's working at Twitter or In a cubicle. Espn. Or maybe, I don't know, maybe somebody who's landscaping a customer's yard while they listen to this episode. How did they heal a broken world through their work? What in the world does that look like?

It starts with being serious about what's going on inside your own heart. I can understand, like, heart is deceptive and desperately wicked. But there are some things that make us angry or things that bring us joy or things that we just can't get off of our minds, good and bad. I think it starts with saying, okay, what are those things? I get it. I got my work, doing my job, getting that done. But when I get home, there's this other thing. Maybe it's how I am as a father. God, what's going on with me as a father, as a mom, or as a sibling? God, I don't have this deal with my parents. I don't know how to communicate with them. So it's like, okay, what is that? Digging deeper, getting curious, being open. Maybe it's things not only inside of us, but around us. Man. I'm in this neighborhood and I've read a little bit about redlining or maybe a little bit about people not going to that side of town, but, God, these people are even homeless. Like, man. But you say everyone's made in the image of you. Something's missing. So I think it starts with this curiosity of saying, okay, God, open up my eyes to who I am, what you want me to do in this world. And I think that's where it starts.

Have you gone through this process within your role at espn? Like, have you looked at espn Big? What's God really stirring to my heart within this massive institution?

Yes. I actually took a part out of the book just because I was like, ah, you know, I added my publisher. Like, hey, maybe, you know, it's not the best to say about espn. It's not. I've had those negative way.

Hey, but now you can share here, the bonus chapter here only.

Yeah, exactly. You're first to hear it. But this idea of man, when you get to a place like espn, it's very much like those who are in front of the camera and those who are behind the camera, those who, this is my show and my thing versus, hey, you're here to serve me. And something about that didn't sit right with me. It never has at ESPN or anywhere. Forget espn. Any company you go to, I'm the CEO. Hold on. Well, the Janitor is made in the image of God, too. So I noticed that early on, I said, okay, this sucks. Do I just sit here and say, well, this is what it is. And I'm in front of the camera, you guys serve me, or do I try to do something about it? And I love people, and so I love learning about them. All things. So I said, what if I just. Like on Thanksgiving, because that's college football season, everyone's like, I'm gonna be home with my family, which I love. Family. I said, what if I decided to go spend Thanksgiving with the people who can't go home to their families at espn? And not only that, what if I. Cause my first book, Let the World See youe had just come out. What if I don't not only give them copies of my book, but also shout them out on tv, you know what I mean? And my. This wasn't my idea. I just wanted to do something. So I reached out to some producers, some people who had been there for 30 years, and said, hey, is there anything that can be done for some of the people here? We could do this, man, 10 years ago, if we did that. Or so I said, what if we did that? I thought it was a small thing, but it meant everything to some people at the network because they said, man, that's never happened before. And I tell my parents I work here, but they never see me. And they saw my name on the screen or my picture, a little thing. I use that as an example.

I think that's a phenomenal example, brother.

Yeah. Yeah.

It's being aware of your vocational power and being willing to sacrifice it to elevate those who have less vocational power than you. Right?

It is. It is. And someone's listening, saying, well, I don't. I'm not on tv. I'm the guy who's behind the camera. I'm the guy who doesn't have that vocational power. But, man, you have access to people who will never listen to me. Like, you're in the same break rooms, you're in the same. Having the same conversations. Like they're hearing their pains, their failures, who they're dating, who they just broke up with, what they're smoking or drink or whatever, you know what I mean? And it's like, hey, man, can I get to know you? You want to get to know me? Hey, let's grab a bite. Let me listen to you. Let me share some of my story with you and love you. Well, that's the access that I may never get. That's what we forget. We think we have to be a superstar or a NFL football player. It's like, no, you don't just be exactly who God made you to be. For you, it might just be listen. I love to listen to people. That might be your thing. I'm empathetic. So I'm just going to go and listen to someone. I'm going to ask them how they're doing and really sit down and care. I'm going to invite them to coffee or to lunch or to brunch or to dinner or bring them to my house or go to theirs. For some, it's speaking life into people. You don't have to be have a million followers to tell someone you love them or tell someone the good that you see in them, the God you see in them. It doesn't take much, but it does take moving and doing and going and breathing and being.

It's really good. What I love about this, I'm so excited to read your new book, Change Starts with you. I think there's these threads of modern Christianity that drive me nuts, if I'm frank, that are largely driven by an endless supply of end times propaganda, right? We spend so much time worrying about when Jesus going to come back and where it's going to be, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, that we're not fully engaged with the work I believe that Christ has called us to do, right? Namely to join him in renewing all things. You and I were praying about this right before we started recording, right? Not just to watch the world go to hell in a handbasket and just pray for Jesus to come back asap, but to partner with King Jesus and putting things right in the world right now, in our communities, in our workplaces. What's gotten you fired up about this? What in your theological background or what in scripture? You see, and they're like, no, we are called to engage. We are called to change things, to make this world look more like the eternal kingdom of God.

The best moments of my life, day one. One of the best moments of my life in my memory was my wedding day. Like, that's number one, my wife. And it was actually, I guess you could say 1A and 1B. We did a Nigerian wedding and then an American wedding. And like seeing my wife on that wedding day, like that best day of my life, best day. Second best day was my first child was born becoming a father. It's like, oh my gosh. Like, this is amazing. I've always dreamt about this. Number three was doing the work of the kingdom on the south side and west side of Chicago, taking something broken we essentially purchased this liquor store and turned into a food mart after discovering this thing called it food desert.

Oh yeah.

Two grocery stores, 17 liquor stores and a half mile radius was the middle of COVID and George Floyd. And everyone's people were here riding looting. So let's get close, let's get curious. We realized, oh my gosh, they don't have food. They go to McDonald's. Like I asked them like, where do you get your food from? I said, we're going to McDonald's or the gas station. I'm like, what? So where do you get something healthy, Sam? Healthy? If we want something organic, we have to commute 45 minutes to the next city. And God did this really cool thing where me and some athletes and some people in the community and some young, we called them young entrepreneurs. Black kids from west side of Chicago. Nonprofit leaders said, what if we did something? What if we actually raised some money, bought a liquor store, turned it to a food mart. All the kids idea, the young entrepreneurs, 14 and 15 year old, 13, 14, 15 year olds. And seeing that food mart be open is called Austin Harvest because it's in the Austin neighborhood of Chicago. That was day number three. It felt like heaven on earth. And so the secret, what gets me going and fired up is the fact that we can join God in bringing heaven on earth. He doesn't have to wait. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Not later, but now. God, how can I seek your face, seek your will, seek justice. How can I, I join you in this work of making all things new?

Yes. And he's going to finish that work one day. But he left us with the job of implementing his kingdom in the present, of scratching off those glimpses of the eternal kingdom of God that are hiding between the thin veil of heaven and earth. Right. And a hundred percent that food mart is a glimpse of the eternal kingdom of God because we know that there's no scarcity of food in the kingdom of God. And you're scratching off a glimpse of that. I'm reminded of some of my favorite stories from the life of Mr. Rogers. Did you watch Mr. Rogers growing up at all?

I did and I watched his movie. I watched. There was two movies, bro. That's one of my. I will never forget.

So they show this. They show this in the documentary. He had just gone off air.

I think it was like 10 days before.

911 and 911 happens. PBS calls Roger's back. Like, hey, you got to get back on air. Like you got to Do a psa. It's like one of my favorite videos of all time. He gets there and he's talking to, he's talking to really the parents of the kids he used to talk to. And he gets done talking about 9, 11. He says, quote, no matter what our particular job, especially in our world today, we are called to be tikkun olam, this old, this Hebrew term which means repairers of creation, end quote. And that's what we're called to, right? To partner with Jesus in restore and renew and repair what's broken in this world. And man, Sam, I can't think of a better example than what you just shared. Hey, bro, three questions. We wrap up every podcast with number one, which books other than your own do you find yourself recommending or gifting most frequently?

Jesus Calling by Sarah Young. I mean, I recommended that two days ago. It's a devotional every day, 365 day devotional. And I just recommended that somebody on Instagram two, three, maybe four days ago. Now that's the one. If there's one I'd recommend, it's that. All right.

Hey, who do you want to hear on this podcast talking about how the Christian faith shapes the work they do in the world?

It's a good question. I want to hear. I don't know how true this is, but I heard somebody say they know him and apparently he's a follower. Jesus for learning. Arnold Schwarzenegger. Really? I don't know how true this is. I was, I was doing a podcast. Somebody like, yeah, I know him. Apparently he's a. He's a believer, something. Maybe this is new, whatever, but it'd be fun to hear him. Even Accentu would be great too.

Oh my God.

I don't know his. I don't know the backstory.

That's true. All right, we're producers are investigating this.

As I said, yes, they'd be totally off, but even so, he'd be a great.

I love it.

All right.

Hey, what's one thing from our conversation you want to reiterate to our listeners before we sign off, Sam, that God.

Sees you and he knows you and he gave Adam good work to do in the garden. God could have cultivated the garden by himself, but he said, hey, Adam, I want you to work this garden, I want you to tend to it. I want you to name the animals, I want you to tend to them. Hey, Adam, I don't want you to be alone. I want to give you a helper. I'm going to make her out of Your own flesh and bone. I'm going to use one of your ribs to make her. I don't want you to be. I could have made you alone. Nope. I'm going to give you Eve. And I want you all to work together as a team, as one. For this reason, husbands leave your mother and father cling to your wife. Wives, join your husband. So it's like this deal of God could do this all by himself if he wanted to. He doesn't.

Yes.

He wants to use you. He wants to join you. He wants you to join him on this journey of justice, freedom, joy, and making every single thing brand new. That's for you. It's not for the elite. It's not for the superstar, the movie star, the millionaire. It's for you.

And not even just for the religious professional.

Right.

It's for ESPN analysts and that Uber driver who called you out at McDonald's. Amen.

Amen.

Sam, I want to commend you, brother, for the exceptional work you do every day for the glory of God and the good of others. Thank you. For me, you just exude the joy of God on air. I've seen it on the field, man. Thank you for reminding us of the call to change the world, to make it more like the eternal kingdom of God. Guys, Sam has two books that we talked about today that I would highly recommend you check out. Let the world see you and change starts with you. Sam, thanks for hanging out with us today.

Thank you. And I got to add this. This is a huge day because my book launches today and there could have been so many things to do or not do. And I was really glad to spend this day with you, Jordan, and also with everybody listening. I'm just glad that I get a chance to do this with you. So, yeah, you can get the book@samacho book.com or Amazon or Target, anywhere you get books. But I don't know. This is different. You know, my first book, I was book tour everywhere I could be. And today I felt like I was like, nope, I want you here in this hotel room in New York talking with Jordan and everyone else listening. So thank you. I love it, dude.

Well, hey, I know how special book birthdays are, so really appreciate you spending with us.

Thank you.

Hey, so I've had a chance to skim both of these books of Sam's since recording the show, and they both look terrific. I will definitely be finishing both of them. I highly recommend them to you guys. Thank you so much for tuning into this week's episode. I'LL see you next week.

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