Sam Verghese (COO of Florida Virtual School)

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Still going to love these older episodes.

Because the majority of each conversation focuses.

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Please enjoy the episode.

Hey everybody. Welcome to the Call to Mastery. I'm Jordan Raynor. This is a podcast for Christians who want to do their most exceptional work for the glory of God and the good of others. Each week I host a conversation with a Christian who's pursuing world class mastery of their vocation. We talk about their path to mastery. We talk about their daily habits and and how their faith influences their work. Today's guest is Sam Verghese. He's the chief operating officer for Florida Virtual Schools. And with everybody thinking about elearning due to Covid, I thought it would be fascinating to talk to a Christ follower who's making it all work in one of the largest states in the US And Sam certainly did not disappoint. He's a masterful leader running a nearly 1500 person organization. He's been recognized by the Orlando Business journal as a 40 under 40 young professional. And Sam and I actually share a past. We talk about that a little bit at the top end of the podcast, so you get to hear that. You also get to hear Sam and I talk about the leadership lessons that he learned scaling up to serve 10 times the number of students that they were serving pre Covid in just a few months. We talked about why Sam has chosen to descent from the kingdom of noise of news and social media, and the significance of the fact that Jesus focused his ministry in a single geographic setting. Please enjoy this episode with my friend Sam Verghese. Sam Verghese. Thanks for joining me, buddy.

Hey, it's so great to be here, Jordan. Thanks for having me.

Yeah. So I think I was trying to think in preparation for this.

I think the last time you and.

I spoke was like 2008. I was in my last semester at Florida State. I was doing an internship at the Republican Party of Florida. And you were, if I remember correctly, Republican Party was upstairs. You were working downstairs, but you weren't working for the party, were you? What were you doing at the time?

2008, I was still. I was actually doing some work with House campaigns at the time. I was in 08. I kind of went back and forth a little bit from RPOF to the private sector and back again. So you might have caught me in between. I'm trying to remember, but I think I was still at house campaigns at the time.

I think I caught you in between. And obviously I took a very different route with my career. You stayed in public service, but we were talking right before we hopped on. You're a religion major at Liberty, right? What was the plan there? Were you planning on becoming a pastor? What's the story behind this?

I appreciate you asking that. Yeah. And hey, just a quick disclaimer when we get started. Just so you know, the opinions and views I'm expressing today on the podcast, they are my own, solely my own. They don't express the views or opinions of the organization that I presently work for.

You're good. You're a good public servant.

Gotta say it, gotta say it.

Well said. You have to.

You have to, gotta say it. So, yeah, talking about being a religion major. So it really takes it back to when I came to Christ, when Jesus became my all in all, when I was in high school, I was beginning this whole process of wrestling with a full time call to ministry. And I went to Liberty University with the express purpose of studying to be a pastor. So my actual specialty was in biblical studies. I really wanted to get into what the Bible was about and what does that mean in applying to my life and hermeneutics and the biblical languages and all of it. Because I wanted to be ready if that's what God wanted for my life. So that was a big part of how things kind of got started on that end when it came to the religion track.

So how did you eventually decide on public service? How did you get from wanting to be in what we might call religious professionals, a pastor, to being in public service and working in politics and government?

Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting, Jordan. I mean, I've really had a lot of great opportunities in my life that the Lord has provided. And after graduating from Liberty and I was wrestling with this full call time to ministry, I was trying to figure out what that looked like, so ended up becoming a teacher at one point. Ended up working in the House of Representatives, serving the governor's office in the Capitol, and then eventually in public service, leading government agencies in healthcare and the business sector as we've intersected. I've owned businesses, sold them, and then now helping pave the way for education going forward. And Jordan, really, I think in it all it was this common denominator for me, which has been service. I think for me really where the heart of it is. It's important for me each day to start and end and having a clear conscience that I'm doing some real public good by serving others. And since I didn't go into full time vocational ministry, I tried to stay as close as I could to the local church through the whole journey. And I didn't map it out this way. Okay. I really, I really can't say, hey, this is all Sam doing this. The Lord has been working in this process and God has taken care of me. It's just been an interesting time, probably. To sum up all of that, how this kind of call to ministry transferred to public service. I have a wonderful, supportive wife and I have three active kiddos. And one of my sons was giving a speech about his family in the school. And when it came to talking about what his dad does, he summed it up best. He just said, my dad, he helps people.

I love it.

I said, okay. I said, that's a good way of describing it, son. Good job. I love it.

And listen, right? And this is what this podcast is all about. Your work, whether you're a quote unquote, full time missionary. My most hated term. Or a pastor or working for Florida Virtual Schools is ministry. I mean, the word ministry in scripture just means service, right? It is serving others. And that's what you're doing. All right, let's talk about your current role. I think after we're recording this towards the end of 2020, I think we all by now know what an organization like Florida Virtual School does. But give us an idea of what you do specifically in your role as COO of this organization.

Sure, yeah. When it comes to what I do, you know, so much of it is helping drive the agenda of what. Of what our CEO, Dr. Allgaze, is looking to do. And specifically of that, I deal with the technology side, with the innovative end of how we're continually taking our product and what we're providing for the students to a level that's going to give them excellence in being able to reach their educational goals, whether that's on the tech front or the human resources side. And getting the right people placed in the right situation. Take the Jim Collins idea, the right people on the right bus in the right seat. That is a big part of what I do day in and day out. How do I take this vision and bring it to an implementable reality so that it really does touch the hearts and lives of people that we're intersecting with day in and day out?

So at the risk of inflicting PTSD, take us back to March 2020, Covid hits forces all schools to find some virtual solution. Please tell us in as much detail what those first few weeks look like for you.

Yeah, I think it started with a lot of prayer. And the great thing is, I mean, we have a great team. And starting out it was saying, how do we take this crazy crisis situation and say, how do we channel this fear that was prevalent everywhere? It seemed I just turn off the news. That was one of those situations. I just had to turn off the news. And we all said as a team, how do we channel all this fear and start turning it into positive energy? How do we continue to think about what is the good that we can do right in front of us with what we can control to be ready for what potentially was coming, which by the way, nobody really knew what was going to come, we had to make a lot of assumptions, a lot of best guesses, and we had to get all of the stakeholders involved from the highest levels to where we were at to say, okay, what's going to happen with the schools? So interfacing with everybody, governor's office down of, let's make sure we're ready so we can play our part. And as we were doing that, it became pretty apparent that, hey, if this thing gets so bad and kids cannot go to school at all, we gotta be ready to serve the population of Florida.

Yeah.

When it comes to student population, and that's just shy of 3 million students. Not to mention we also have a national and global footprint as well. So we have students from other states, and that's a really neat part of the story too, and helping other states build up their virtual programs. So we had to say, you know what, we gotta start with Florida. So let's figure out how to get to a capacity technologically to serve 2.7 million students and then let's ramp that up to 4 million students in case everything becomes the apocalypse in this situation. And it's a very daunting task to say, okay, here's where you're at, here's where you need to go, and then let's get the right people in place to figure it out. And by the way, there still wasn't cares funding that existed yet, so that wasn't even on the table. But as a team, we said, we got to do the right thing. I got to give credit where it's due to the governor and the commissioner of education and to my CEO because they said, let's do the right thing. Let's be ready for a virtual safety net and let's make this Happen. And then it was, of course, the day in, day out, let's make this a reality to get ready for students, if it became that route, to give them our courses and give them our curriculum to be ready for whatever was coming.

So you're planning on ramping up to 3 million, 4 million students. How many students were attending Florida Virtual School Pre Covid.

So we had about. It was about 200. Close to 200. Say ballpark, 200,000. About that at the time. So you can imagine to go from that, we were increasing everything tenfold.

Plus. Yeah.

You know, right out of the gate to say, we need to be ready for this. And it was going to require a lot of creativity in the process, because we knew the answer wasn't going to be, well, let's just hire thousands and thousands of teachers. Well, there's not enough certified teachers to do that.

Right. So how'd you do it?

Well, a big part of it was we said let's in every way possible be able to get our curriculum to the districts that needed it, to students that needed it in every form and fashion. So we ended up actually offering our courses at one point for free, 100 of our courses. If someone had an LMS at a district level or a charter school level, private school level, to get them connected so they could have a link to our courses so at least their teachers locally would be able to have their ability to connect with their students locally, keep it close to the students as possible. We believe that was going to be best for them. In this crazy time of chaos where there was so much uncertainty. We said, how can we provide some constancy, two students, two parents, two people involved in that so they had an opportunity to have not worry about necessarily teaching and creating curriculum, but being able to deliver it and get that time with those students. Because there was going to be a lot more that was going to arise out of the situation than just learning. There was going to be mental health considerations and other things as well out of that.

So you mentioned uncertainty. I think that is the word of 2020. You guys are making all these plans back in March, back in April. You have no idea what's going to happen with schools in the fall.

I think a lot of leaders are.

Asking, like, how do you do that? Right. Like, did you have dedicated teams working on plan A, plan B, plan C? And. And how far along did those plans get in the process? Like, how did you guys think about planning for those different potential scenarios?

Yeah, the short of it is, I mean, we, we tried as much as we could to come with an open mind and try to deal with the known before the unknown. I think we had certain constants that we knew were going to be there. Like potentially we knew what the state funding was going to be to start, at least what we had to work with. And then we knew how much that we potentially had that we could take a financial hit. Right. So option A would be out of our existing resources. What can we do?

Yeah.

Out of what doesn't exist. Option B, what if cares funding comes? Option C. So we did many, many kind of war game scenarios through the process of like a quarterback would just having those checkdowns in their routes with their wide receivers. It was that same kind of idea. If this happens, let's consider this option. If this happens, let's consider this option. All the while keeping communication lines open with of course everybody, not just inside, but we had to keep it open outside. I think that was the key because there was an interface that was going on with the federal government during all of this and we were not making these decisions in isolation, which I think is always crucial in any crisis. Right. Typically there's always other entities involved and I think it's a matter of how could we cancel out the noise from those who didn't really matter in that decision making process and keep them open with those that we needed during the crisis so that we could get the best intel from them quickly to make those decisions. To your point of being able to have those teams ready to act on a dime when it happens. And as you know, Jordan, from your time in politics and state government, the media is an essential part of all this. Yet sometimes it can also be an interesting variable thrown into it.

That's one way to put it. Yeah.

Yeah. And I want to respect their job and their role. I think the reality is in a crisis it's just understanding what noise is the one that needs to be listened to at that moment. Right. And that I think is what our team was so good at of saying how do we cancel out the noise? That might not be the urgent right now, but we need to keep that important volume level up of where are the red flags that we need to be worried about.

So it's so funny, I just wrote a chapter in my next book kind of sort of around this topic about turning down noise in order for us to redeem our time and be productive. And I, I think it's a big problem. You won't recognize Jordan Rayner of today. Sam, when you knew me, I was connected to the News nonstop, day in, day out. Today I consume basically zero news. Zero news websites, no TV news, nothing.

And I found part of the rationale there is.

I've just realized pretty much everything is unimportant. Almost everything in the news is unimportant to my work. But I'll tell you what, Covid was the exception. Right. So obviously, once I started hearing from my friends what's going on, I'm going to Tampa Bay.com, going to the New York Times, checking numbers and face mask orders or whatever, and I found that I was, unsurprisingly, more distracted than ever and also just more anxious than ever. And it made it so hard to make decisions that previously were so easy for me to make. I'm curious if you have a similar relationship with news and noise and all. It sounds like you do. It sounds like you've thought really deeply about this.

Yeah. I really appreciate you asking. And I'll give you some moments of vulnerability in this. What I'm going to say is definitely testimonial and it's not prescriptive for anyone. Yeah, I would say that I do have battles with anxiety. I do. I've had to wrestle with this for years of my life. There's a lot that ties into why I have these types of issues. So there was a time where a couple years ago where I made the hard decision of actually going beyond just news, but I don't have any social media accounts anymore.

I noticed that my team couldn't find you when we were researching this. Like, is this guy Ghost? Is he real?

And Jordan, as you and I know from time, yeah, I had a decent following on social media.

Oh, yeah, you were the guy. Yeah.

So this was, this was very, a very difficult decision. But I got to a point where my life started to become not sustainable for me when it came to trying to keep up social media wise and being able to still focus day in and day out on what was most important and dear to me in my life and what I valued most and what I didn't value most was how many likes I was getting in Facebook or how many people were retweeting what I was writing. Now, like I said, this is testimonial. It's not prescriptive. I understand when it comes to personal brand, there is a very important argument to make for having those channels. So, you know, like I said, take it or leave it. What works for you, what doesn't? I just know this work worked for me because Jordan, in a crisis moment or just as I love to talk about just in the day in, day out, the balance of life. I have to stay centered on the moment with the task at hand. I have to say that I'm bringing my full faculties to this situation if you're going to get the best of me. And I think for me, that meant taking what would be considered, I think, a radical step. But it's one I had to do for me to be able to do that. And I used to have someone handling my social media, but since I've been back in public service, I don't on that end. So it's just where I am on that front.

So I am a strong advocate for what you're proposing. So I, and I think a lot of this is, I'm not going to argue the fact that social media adds value to our lives. I think that's a hard argument to win. But the question is, with anything in life isn't whether or not this thing is valuable, it's how valuable is it relative to the cost. And the cost of social media is exorbitant in terms of our focus, in terms of anxiety. Right. We got to ask what Paul asked, right.

About different topics.

Is it profitable?

Right.

Is social media and news services and all the noise in our lives profitable as we seek to do our most exceptional work for the glory God and the good of others? And some people decide, yes, it is, and good for them. For me, I've landed somewhere in the middle. As a public personality, I've decided that social media is a really good megaphone. But I personally basically never engage with that. I'm fortunate that I have a team to engage with it. I personally check time hop for basically 10 minutes at nighttime. And that's it. That's it. That's the extent of my social media engagement. But I love hearing you talk about that. And I got to imagine that was helpful when the crisis of COVID hit. Speaking of, I'm curious, pre Covid. So it sounds like you've been doing this. Pre Covid, this kind of no news, no social thing. What were some of the things, organizationally, the Florida Virtual Schools was doing long before COVID that you think put you guys in a position to navigate this crisis?

Well, thinking about how things happen. Right. As an organization, probably a good way to describe it. I like Peter Drucker in his book the Effective Executive. It's an old book.

I was reading a chapter this morning. Literally.

How about that? How? I love it.

I love it.

I shouldn't be surprised at anyone. I'm Quoting to you. You probably read it somewhere on a quote board somewhere. So you may know this analogy that he brings up in the book. He talks about the difference between a good factory and a bad factory when it comes to manufacturing. And something that we do organizationally that was going on pre Covid is we're constantly challenging ourselves to think that way. And what I mean by that is, ever have a chance if you do, I encourage you if you ever want to take a look at a manufacturing facility. What he says is that you can know the difference between a good factory and a bad factory by looking at what is going on in the factory environment and just observing and just hearing and seeing what is going on. And what he says is a bad factory is that it looks very dramatic. There's a lot of movement. It sounds very loud. There's a lot of noise. There's a lot of shouting. There's a lot going on. It looks exciting. But he's saying that's a bad factory because he compares it to a good factory. And he says if you go to a good factory, he said it's actually quite the opposite. He says it's quiet. He said it actually looks kind of boring. He said it doesn't look like there's a whole lot going on, but things are run well. And he said the reason is because the people who are running the good factory, unlike the bad factory, they have taken the time, effort and energy when things were not in crisis mode to work out and take out the variables. They've been willing to do the hard work, to ask those tough questions while things were quiet and say, what do I need essentially? Or what do I have an opportunity to let go and grow? And I can say for us, back to the profitability discussion. I think that's just a daily task that we were trying to think and say, we don't know what's going to happen. But, you know, we have this public trust in this school, which has tremendous value and opportunity. Let's make sure that we are making the most and let's make sure we're getting the best out of what we're doing before things hit. So I can tell you, Jordan, the reason why we were able to shift so quickly to get those millions of students potentially served was because we were already working on a technology plan to get us the infrastructure and vetting all of that before it hit. So if we had not Jordan, I think things would have been a much different story for us. Because to turn all that on a dime, I don't think would have been wise, nor would we have been able to be physically responsible in the process because we wouldn't have done our due diligence. So that was a huge part, I think, when I think what Peter Drucker said in that we were trying to be the good factory. We were trying to work through that before things got kind of crazy.

Yeah. So let's pretend for a second you've got to give a speech tomorrow to other leaders across, I don't know, a bunch of different industries. Right. And the speed, the title of speech is top three leadership lessons I learned during the COVID 19 crisis and scaling up to 3 million students. What would those lessons be?

Top three? Man, I am on the spot here today. You are, I would say. And you might get to this point, I'll give you four.

Okay, great.

And here's why I'll sum it this way. And these aren't my words, but this kind of fits into what I think has been the foundation for me in this, which is, of course founded on Christ. But I would say let's look at John Wooden, you know, the famous coach, UCLA most winningest coach all time with championships. And he talks about what he calls the four Ps. He talks about planning, preparation, practice and performance. And he's saying, and I ascribe to this, and I'm willing to talk about it more, but he says that success is. It's found in running the race. So really, it's how you run a race. It's that planning, preparation, practice and performance that really does count for everything. And winning or losing is a byproduct, an after effect of that effort. And really, it's about the quality of the effort that counts most and offers the greatest and most long lasting satisfaction. I would say that. That I think to me, to sum it up in one sentence would be to enjoy the journey. Learning that success is in enjoying the journey. And if you don't know what that is and you haven't found it yet, keep working hard to understand that. Keep searching, keep having an open mind. As the Bible talks about, don't grow wearying while doing good. A return is going to come some way. Somehow God's economy is different from ours. And as my pastor always says, good is ahead. So I'm willing to dive in a little bit more. But I would say that that's good.

I like it a lot. Any Wooden quote is great. Hey, so Sam, since COVID I'm curious what your quote unquote, typical day has looked like from the moment you wake up to the moment you go to bed, what's your routine look like?

Yeah, and that kind of gets to when I was talking about really what drives me when I think about kind of my mission with it all. And I'll tell you that because that really sets the tone from my day. I believe that success, for me, I had to define it in a way that made sense for me. And for me, it is an inward and outward contentment which is going to result from a performing a balanced process to become the best I am capable of becoming today. And that rooted in Philippians 4, 11, 13. And I know you know the passage. Well, I think the idea of what Paul says and that he has learned the secret of contentment. Yes, having much, having little, that process is important. When I look at the Greek words there, talking about learning and that process that's there, I'm still learning that process. I want to learn that secret. You know, for me, it's. It's not necessarily a feeling, but a mindset and a disposition of spirit. So it starts off with that for me, where I'm reminded this is going to drive what I'm doing. So in that my day, it starts small, but it compounds the successes will start compounding. And what I mean by that is, in my day, to have a balanced process, I've got to have three components that are hitting different aspects of my day at different points. And that is humility, that's conditioning, and that's generosity. And what I mean by that, it will really play out as I talk about it. I start off first thing in the morning. I don't care what day it is or how bad I feel. I have to get time with God. And that is, of course, through prayer and the Word. But something I also do is I journal a lot. I journal a lot because I'm not great at engaging my feelings. So I sometimes have to write them down. And I know, talk about being the new school guy in a new school situation. I love the old school idea of journaling, processing and getting my thoughts out on paper. And I always have to have a strong black cup of coffee while I'm in the process. That's the other thing. Every morning, every morning, got to have that. So that is the most important part of my day where I'm reminded of my purpose. So I have one success. No matter what's going on my day starting there, I make the bed. Let me tell you that I make the bed. And that's actually something that my wife and I have found very important for Our lives. It always impressed me when I think of humility, I think of Nelson Mandela and how he had part of his daily routine where he's president of South Africa, you know, Nobel Peace Prize winner, the biggest name of the time, and what he was doing there. And he was still making his bed every morning himself. And he would actually get into arguments with his maid about it because she wanted to make it. And he just said, no, I got to do this. This is what I do. This is who I am. This sets my day. And then just a couple of months ago, and you probably heard this speech too, but I heard a graduation speech by Admiral William McRaven, who's a retired four star general in the Navy. And he talked about how what he learned in the Navy Seals was so crucial when it came to making his bed.

Yeah.

And I thought, man, that's just another reason why I'm just going to pull and say, hey, these great people are doing it. So I'm going to do it.

I love it.

So the third thing that I'm starting off with after that, and this is still the morning, this is before my kids are getting up early. This is really early because I, I need this time before I'm having the joyous blessed onslaught of my kid. So that, yeah, the third part is I, I exercise. And that's part of the conditioning and the generosity side. I'm making an investment in myself. Warren Buffett says that the greatest investment you can make is an investment in yourself. And for me, investing in my health is crucial. It really does set the tone. I've had some health issues at times physically, and it is not fun. It is difficult to perform at a high level if I'm not taking care of myself day in and day out. So Jordan, from there, and then I'll let you stop me. But the.

No, this is terrific.

I love it.

By the way, what time are you waking up?

I try not to wake up later than six. So I wake up in a range of between four and six, depending on what's going on and how I feel in the morning, energy level wise. But I try to, I try to listen to my body in that and I also try to listen to how hard I'm going to push myself. And that's key, I think, in just working through those things. And as that's going on, I think it's crucial to know that I now have this foundation of success that's already started before my kids are up and my wife's actually in the middle of nursing school right now, which is also incredibly busy for us on that front too. So there's a lot of variables that are going to hit once everyone's up. Oh yeah. So I think knowing this, that the outflow of what I'm going to bring to bear for the rest of the day is set in the morning. That foundation is set and it does dictate that tone. So even if my day goes really bad, things go awry. I can always point back to three accomplishments I've had in the morning and three successes I've had in the morning is the way I define it. And then I can point to my time with God. I can point to the fact my bed's made and my morning workout, no matter what happens the rest of the day, and say, you know what? I still did things that were important to me. I still have a foundation to stand on. That's before I've gotten to work. I love that.

What time do you get to the office? 9, 9:30.

So what's interesting now is the office. So as I move to my guest bedroom. So when I was driving in, and right now we're trying to be mindful, of course of COVID and sensitive. And the fact is the joke about what we're doing is we've been social distancing before. It was cool, 1997. Right, right. You know, since we were founded. So it's just that idea of when I do go in, I mean, I try to be ready and engaged by 8:30 and that's, you know, I can get on the phone before that. But I also find I've got to have boundaries set because see, I'm also taking my kids to school.

Yeah.

And that's important to me. You know, that's a moment of talk about later at dinner where I'm engaging, I'm teaching with my kids, I'm praying with them for that time. Even though it is just a few minutes, you know, on the ride to school. But it's important to me. It's important for them to know they have me in their life and I care with that. So for there, I try not to do things before 8:30 where I can help it as much as possible. I just try not to. That's where I'm at. So then usually I'm there ready to go work wise with things.

Yeah, I love it. So what time do you shut down and come back downstairs, come out of the guest bedroom and reintegrate into family life?

Yeah, I try as much as I can. And as you know this, that's probably the harder part, the easier part.

Oh yeah.

The ending part's the difficult one. And I try as much as I can to be done by 5:30. Yeah, that's not always the case. But as we'll talk about, one of those other key successes in my life is that I have dinner with my family. I got to make family dinner a priority. So even if I'm going to work late and it's going to be a late night, I try to at least tell my team, hey, can I at least get a half hour? We need to take a few minutes, get some time with our family. We'll come back, you know, we'll come back to this if we need to. And so I try around that time, like I said, 5:30 ish to 6. It's usually in that range. I try not to extend it longer than that where I can help it. Most of the stuff Jordan I found through the years, it usually can wait. It almost nothing's urgent.

Nothing's urgent, Nothing. Pretty much nothing. I do the same thing. I don't check email. I'm done at 5 o', clock, I go downstairs and nothing's urgent. If it's truly urgent, someone will find a way to get my attention. They'll figure it out. Totally. I love it. So what does the rest of your evening look like? How do you wind down? How do you, you know, what time are you going to bed? All that good stuff.

Yeah. So just to tell you, with dinner being a priority, it's just something neat that my wife and I do. We try to ask at least one good thing and one bad thing for all of our kids.

Oh, I like that.

Yeah, we do that. Because life isn't just always positivity and rose colored glasses.

Exactly.

When you are reading in the Bible about the book of Job, you know, life can be hard. I mean it can be hard to understand and sometimes bad things happen to good people. Those are important teaching moments for my wife and I where we really have that as kind of our time of teaching and then word with our kids at the dinner table because we used to set aside time at night with them and I know a lot of families who can do that. I just have to do what works for us. And I find it's been a difficulty and a struggle to find time outside of a benchmark that's already set which is our dinner time. And remember, this is the generosity side too. That's an investment in my family when they get to hear not just their good and bads, but I Share mine too. I talk about what I'm frustrated with in reason, of course, but I do every day I have good and bad things as well. And I really. Well, my wife being a former teacher as well, she's great at this. Also just shaping, helping to shape our kids worldview, encouraging them to know Jesus more, to view God's world in the light of how they relate to it. So that's dinner time of discipleship, right?

Discipleship around the dinner table. I love it.

It really is. It really is. And then after that, the other priority we have is that I either take a walk or I run with my wife. And we do that because we just need to reconnect too. Yeah, there's days especially, as I said, we're both very busy. I may have barely talked to her in the mornings. Sometimes if we're both up super early at the same time, we'll talk for a bit and connect then, but that's not always a given. So we try to do it in the evenings too because I find it's just very quick back and forth during the day. And I can't say that for everyone, but at least that's how it is for us. Whether that's a text message, a quick call just to try to deal with situations that come up. But at least I know at night we're gonna get into deeper issues if we need to, if we need to adjust. So we do that. And the great thing about it, my kids are getting old enough they can do their chores during.

Yeah, that's great. That's amazing.

Yeah, so it's like killing two birds and one stone, that same process. And then to wind my day down beyond that, you know, of course, time with the family, what I try to have for me at the end. And these are the days where I'm sticking to discipline and I'm ending it well. I also end the day with a bookend, like I did when I started. I take time, I pray, I journal, and I work through my day. I work through the Lord's Prayer, I express my joys, my triumphs, my trials, my mistakes. And this is important to me on many, many levels. I mentioned my struggle with anxiety. If I miss this step at the end of my day and I decide to make the choice to binge watch Netflix or something else. I've actually found myself many, many times. Whether that's pre Covid or especially in a crisis situation. I'll wake up at 3am, I'll wake up in the middle of the night. I find that I Struggle with mentally and emotionally going through the process of dealing with what happened in the day. And I have to deal with it in the middle of the night with intrusive thoughts and emotions. And I still do engage God, but man, that really does throw off my balance for the next day and my effectiveness for the next day because of choices often. Often because of choices I made earlier that day and not dealing with those feelings and dealing with those issues and being proactive, but instead stuffing it down and not being honest and truthful to myself and to God. So there's, you know, there's a lot more I can expound on in there, but that's the gist of. That's the gist of what my day looks on a good day. And as I said, not every day look like that. I wish it did.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But we try. We try.

No, I love it.

I love it.

Yeah, we hear journaling a lot from some of the world class guests that we have. And it's something I don't do consistently daily, but it's something I'm trying to be more consistent at because I, I find that my head is clearer. I'm more fully engaged with my work and my family when I've had a chance to process stuff on my own. Right. And think through stuff on my own. So you and I, you know, we've lost track of each other over the years. I had no idea you were at Florida virtual schools. I found out because I got this Google alert. I get Google alerts for any mention of my books and there was a Google alert for called to create. And you said in this interview, quote, every day I wake up knowing I am called to create an exceptional digital learning environment for students of all walks of life. End quote. And I just loved it so much. And so I reached out, I was.

Like, hey, we need a reconnect.

So talk about why you view your work as a calling. How do you see your work as the COO of Florida virtual Schools connecting to the work that God is doing in the world?

And I love that it popped up. And there's another reason where we talk about distractions and other things with social media. It's like, you know, we haven't talked in a while now. And just the fact that it popped up, I'm just thinking how providential I put the title of your book in there. You know what I did. Look at that. I didn't even think about it. I didn't even think about it. And it's just like, wow, this was kind of a real God given moment in that. So speaking of that, yes, my present mission statement at Florida Virtual really does flow out of a lot of it from my personal mission statement and how I define success as well. And it's that idea of knowing that I'm called that in life. Nothing is happening by chance. You know, God, if he has me in a present situation, there's a reason for that. And just like Jesus was called to a certain people a certain time in a certain place, he was in Israel, he was in a local area, he was at a local time. And I think sometimes for me, it's easy to forget. With the rise of social media, with news, we can have these feelings and heart tugs and emotion that ties to all these other parts of the world. And I'm not saying that's bad to know what's going on with the world, we need to know. Absolutely. But Jesus was focused locally, he was there. He was present in the moment with the people he was serving. And he had an impact that changed the entire history of the world and ushered in his kingdom and did that. Now, I know we're not Jesus, we're not going to be Jesus. But I think the idea was that I can't have a greater impact than Jesus. That's my point. So I'm saying if he thought it was good enough to be present locally where he was called man, shouldn't I think about that? Shouldn't I think about how I am called in this moment, right where I am, to do this daily balance process of making my organization the best it can be? Isn't that enough? Isn't that enough to do what I'm called to do as a husband and father, to love my family right where they are, you know, and start there? It's that idea, Jordan, you mentioned earlier about missions, work and all of that. And I think sometimes we can forget the greatest opportunity we might have in this moment is right in front of us. And maybe we just don't want to see it. Maybe we don't want to admit it's my neighbor next door because I'm uncomfortable. So that idea is the same calling God is calling me in this moment. He didn't call me to Australia, he didn't call me to Iran or Iraq or somewhere else. He called me here in Winter Garden, which means he called me to my local church, which means he called me to Florida Virtual School. And I got to do something with that. And I want to make the most out of it today. And I want to do that day in and day out and trust the results to him, trust the outcomes to him, which is that what Wooden was talking about.

That's beautifully said. Very, very well said. And I think we can get caught up in these grandiose visions for our lives, for our careers, and forget to be diligent and good stewards of what's right in front of us. And that's what the Lord's called us to do. I've never really thought deeply about this idea of Jesus being confined to a particular time, particular place, but. No, that certainly has ramifications for how we think about our work. By the way, part of the quote that I read a few minutes ago from you that I loved was you saying that you're called to create an exceptional learning environment. Exceptional being one of my favorite words. We use it literally in every episode of this podcast, in the introduction.

So I'm curious if you see your.

Faith influencing your commitment to excellence in any way and these exceptionally high standards you have for your work, are those things connected for you?

I'd say for me, Jordan, it is. It is. I think. You know what, let me do this. I was just reading the other day, I thought about this. Let me tell you a story about Peyton Manning, because I think this will get to the heart of what you're asking.

I love it. Please do.

Okay. And I know you love sports quotes, as I do. So Peyton was retiring and he was giving his speech as a retirement speech. And basically with Peyton, and everybody knows who he is, greatest quarterback when it comes to the regular season, arguably one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time, for sure. And as he's given his speech, what was interesting is that he talked about mastery. And I thought of this because I knew it was coming on your podcast just kind of triggered something for me. And I was like, I think Peyton talked about this at some point. And he talks about when he looks at his career and when he thinks about it, he's saying that people are going to speculate what drove him for all those years or 18 years. And a lot of people are going to say it was solely about mastery and working to master every aspect of the game. Well, what he was saying is he said, don't believe that. That wasn't really what drove, he said, every drop of sweat and every bleary eyed night of preparation, all of that, he said it was really about one thing. It was about the reverence for the game. So I think what I want to point to that is to say that he was saying that reverence for the game. It drove his pursuit mastery. And then he went on to say at the end, very end of his speech, he said when he looks back at his career, he's basically saying, I'm loosely quoting here, but basically just saying that he had without a doubt knowing that he gave everything that he could to help his team be the best that it could be. And he was saying he knew that there was going to be other players who were more talented that were out there, but he said nobody could out prepare him. And because no one could out prepare him, he had no regrets. So I think for me, what I'm saying is there has to be something greater than the bottom line that's driving me. There has to be something more than just winning for winning's sake. And I think that ties back to God's calling, being called to create. I think there's an aspect of that that gets to that exceptionality. Jordan, as you're talking about. And I still, I'm smiling ear to ear because I hadn't read your book yet. So I just think it's amazing. That was part of the mission statement.

Incredible. I just love it.

You were touching on the heart of something there, brother. That's all I could say.

I love that so much. What has God revealed to you, particularly during this crisis, about who he is? I'm just curious. I mean, I'm sure you've been journaling a ton throughout this time. What is he teaching you about himself?

Man, it is. It's so much, so much. I think one of the things I hit on a lot I've had to learn that success is in the journey in a new, fresh way. I don't think I really started to understand that until this happened. And what I mean by that is that a lot of times it's hard to measure progress. I'm somebody who likes to be on the move a lot. I'm somebody who wants to constantly be doing one thing to the next to the next. And Jordan, you knew before I came here to Florida Virtual, so to have everything shut down to where I'm confined at home so much means that I've got to rethink what success looks like in the process. Because it's not necessarily going to conferences anymore. It's not necessarily getting in meeting rooms and shaking and baking and all the other things that people might define in the business world, it became something different. It became different for me. And I think that when I could find success in the small moments of what I was doing, like I talked about with my day, that I think that was a very. And I'm still learning the lesson. I'd be lying if said I wasn't. But to be able to say each day having satisfaction, that doing the next right thing, that small thing did matter and that it was progress. It might not be something I can see or fathom, but somewhere God was working in that midst. And somewhere there's going to be a return in some way. It might not be monetarily, might not be the way the world defines it, but there is some good and some return that's coming out of it. I would tell you that is the reason I led with that is because that is like probably the biggest lesson for me. Because enjoying the moment, recognize it's a journey. John Piper talks about. Don't waste your life. These ideas have hit me and went from maybe a grandiose level, maybe because I was defining it differently. I mean, you see some of the previous things I've done career wise, take all that away from being out there, being public, all that, and kind of coming back to a more obscure situation where I'm not out there as much. I've had to redefine that can be just as much success. Amen in that type of situation.

Yeah. The Lord isn't calling us to be big names.

There was a good book.

It was an interesting idea. This pastor wrote an anonymous book years ago. Still don't know who it is. It was called Embracing Obscurity. It's this idea of just like this, Christ followers embracing the everyday, embracing the mundane, embracing the job that nobody ever sees. It was a really beautiful book. I love it. I've reread it a couple of times. So, speaking of books, one of three questions we love to wrap up every conversation with. Number one, which book books do you find yourself recommending or giving away most frequently to others these days?

Well, because I think they're huge, you know, that I've been dealing with. Just in light of COVID I think lately I've been recommending 7 Habits of Highly Effective People a lot, you know, by Stephen Covey. Another one is. You heard me talk a lot about it is Wooden on Leadership.

Yeah.

By John Wooden.

I've actually never read that. It's been on my list for a long time.

Sure. It. I think. And I'd say, Jordan, if I could hold a placeholder for a third, because one of the days soon I'm probably gonna be giving out one of your books because you're gonna be like New York Times bestsellers.

So we'll see. We'll see.

Yeah, I love it.

We'll. We'll hold a spot for that. Hey, who would you most like to hear on this podcast talking about how their faith influences the work they do in the world?

It's football season, and I grew up in New Jersey, so right outside of Philly. Yeah, since the football season. I'm a huge Eagles fan, and I would love to hear Nick Foles, who's of course our former Super Bowl MVP on here at some point. And he's been going through a pretty rough time from a sports critics perspective. But I'd love to hear about his walk with Christ because of the adversity, not just because things are going great, but because he's going through some difficult times. And mainly where I think that hits a similar heartstring is because I knew early on and he's been public about this, and I have some friends who know him where he is planning on becoming a pastor after football. And I'd love to hear how his pastor's heart perspective influences and relates to football organizations and changes the locker room culture and how that's kind of guided him through his highs and lows. So there's my piece there.

That's a great answer. We'll reach out to Nick and his team. That's. That's good. All right, last question. One piece of advice. To leave this audience. With people who, like you are going to work every day trying to do their best work for the glory of God and the good of others. What do you want to leave them with?

I'm going to say it again. I've said it multiple times, so for fear sound like a broken record. I'm going to say learn that success is in enjoying the journey. I think from a Christian perspective, there's a truth to what the writer of Ecclesiastes said when he said, remember your creator in the days of your youth. I think the idea is that that trajectory is set up early. Have that as a day in, day out process, find a way to enjoy the process, trust the process. You hear that a lot. You know, in our culture, these days seems to be more of a common theme. And I think enjoying that moment is so crucial. I think there is an aspect of resting, there is an aspect of being enough and having enough in God. Absolutely. Yet there is a journey that we're on, and I think to find joy in the moments, which is important to me because I've wrestled with being at peace in the moment and working hard at the same time. It's an interesting tension that we hold. I think it's almost like in the Christian walk, we're in the already, but not yet, right? We've got a shadow of it, but we know the substance is Christ. Like it's not here yet, but we're in that process of being ready and being who God wants us to be for that ultimate, perfect glorification of who he wants us to be, that finality in it all.

Amen. Well said. Hey Sam, I want to commend you for the important, eternally significant work you do every day pre post Covid and thank you for your commitment to exceptional work for God's glory and the good of your neighbors. Hey, as he already mentioned before, you can't find Sam anywhere, but you can find out more about Florida virtual schools@flvs.net Sam thank you so much for taking the time to catch up, brother. It was great reconnecting Jordan.

It was my pleasure and I'm looking forward to great things that come from you, brother.

I hope you guys enjoyed that episode. Hey, if you're enjoying the podcast, do me a favor. Take a second to go leave a review of the podcast on Apple Podcasts. By the way, we read these things at our all hands meetings every Friday. We pick a couple of podcast reviews and we read them to encourage the team that makes this show. So go on Apple Podcasts. Leave a couple of comments that we can read out to our team to encourage them as we keep making the show for you guys, inspiring and hopefully encouraging you to do your best work for the glory of God and the good of others. Hey, thank you guys so much for listening this week. I'll see you next time.