Shane Kimbrough (Astronaut)

Today's episode will begin in three minutes. But first I want to tell you about something crazy I'm doing for my new book, five Mere Christians. I've never seen an author do this before, but I'm giving a money back guarantee on this book. I'm so confident you're gonna love this book that if I'm wrong, if you pre order the book, you don't love it, I'm gonna send you a $20Amazon gift card as a money back guarantee. Why? Two reasons. One, this is a different book for me, right. I know this is a very different biography. What is Jordan Rayner doing? And I know it's risky, so I'm going to de risk it for you. Because listen, in my other books, Redeeming youg Time, the Sacredness of Secular Work, Master of One, etc, etc, I am telling you and me how we can glorify God in our work, but in five Mere Christians, I'm doing something very different. I'm showing you what that looks like practically through these unforgettable life stories of five Mere Christians from history. These are the top men and women that I would love to have on this podcast today if, you know, they weren't dead, right? So that's the first reason this is a risk and I'm gonna de risk this book for you. Here's the second reason. I'm just confident you're gonna love this book. My friend Mark Batterson said, quote, five Mere Christians proves that biographies can be extremely entertaining, profoundly helpful, and mercifully short. If you're looking for a book that combines the punch of a great sermon with the pace of a great thriller, this is it. Highly recommended. End quote. But here's the thing. In order to qualify for this money back guarantee, you got to do two things. Step one, pre order five Mere Christians in any format, hardback, ebook, audiobook, whatever. And then step two, go to 5merechristians.com and fill out the form on that page. And that's it. But you got to do it by midnight Eastern Time on May 9. By filling out that form, you'll also get all of the pre order bonuses listed on 5merechristians.com and be entered to win this crazy, epic trip for two to Europe. So visit 5merechristians.com right now to sign up. Now, please enjoy today's episode. Hey friend. Welcome to the Mere Christians Podcast. I'm Jordan Raynor. How does the Gospel influence the work of mere Christians? Those of us who aren't pastors or religious professionals, but who work as watchmakers CEOs and forensic pathologists. That's the question we explore every week. And today I'm posing it to Shane Kimbrough, a NASA astronaut who spent 388 days in space landing him fifth on the list of record holders for cumulative time in space for all NASA astronauts. This guy flew the space shuttle. He spent time on the International Space Station. In short, Shane Kimbrough's the real deal. We sat down recently to talk about how Shane discerned whether to pivot or persevere after four rejections from NASA. We talked about how, quote, asking the right questions in the right way, end quote, led to NASA approving him reading scripture from the iss. And Shane talked about why he counts consistency, simply letting his yes be yes during his time on Earth as a worship. This is one of my favorite episodes we've recorded in a long time. Do not miss this terrific conversation with my new friend. Friend, Shane Kimbrough. Shane Kimbrough, welcome to the Mere Christians podcast.

Thanks for having me, Jordan. Great to be here.

Hey, so you retired from NASA in 2022 after how many years as an astronaut?

Ooh, I was an astronaut for. Let's see, I got to do some public math here. 18.

18 years. What do you miss most?

Well, to me, it's. It's all about the people, no matter what you're doing. So I definitely miss my dear friends over there that are still there. Some have. Have gone on as well. But, you know, I had a great run there. I was super blessed. Got to do some really neat things. But the people and what I'm saying there, Jordan, it's not just the people at the Johnson Space center in Houston. Those are amazing people as well. But I got to work with and train with people from all over the world, from Russia to Japan to Europe and here in the United States, all over the place, Kennedy Space Center. And it's so many amazing people that I had the pleasure of working with. And that's what I really miss more than anything. I still keep in contact with them, so it's not like they're gone or anything, but I miss kind of the day to day with folks like that.

That's a surprising answer, I'm sure, for some of our listeners. Like, oh, you don't miss, you know, looking out at the stars from outer space? It's like. No, it's. It's the people. It's the crown jewel of creation. Speaking of Kennedy, by the way, I was just with my wife and kids at Kennedy Space center for a week. My kids were at space camp, which was super fun. Were you ever did like visiting astronaut with the space camp kids?

No, I have not done that yet. I've had a few inquiries about doing it, but I haven't done it yet.

So my kids loved it. And I asked my girls, I asked my girls to ask the astronaut this question and they did not. They did not obey their father. So I'm going to ask you what's the most typical path to becoming an astronaut? I got to imagine there's a ton of different paths, but what's the most common one?

It's a good question. And it's very different today than it was back in the early days. Right. I think everybody thinks all astronauts are from the military because that's what the Apollo days. That's kind of the way it started. And even people today still think that, but that's completely not true anymore. And most of the people I did come from the military, so that's the route I made it there. But most of the astronauts now are civilians, believe it or not. So they're engineers and scientists and teachers and doctors and other kinds of folks than the typical military test pilot that most people think of.

That's fascinating. So how'd you go from military to astronaut? Like, what's the in between there? What's the path?

I was always interested in being an astronaut, so I had it on my radar from when I was a little kid. And ironically, when I went to West Point to go to college, I kind of gave up on that dream because I. Because I had to go serve in the army once I finished and didn't realize you could be in the army and be an astronaut, but it turns out you can. And I figured that out a few years into my time in the army and then started kind of tracking down that path again. It's not a high probability path that way. And so I wasn't throwing all my eggs in that basket, but it was just a passion I had and something I'd always wanted to do. There was an opportunity and I kept trying and it was very persistent. I think I got turned down four times and I think on the fifth application I finally got selected. So there's a lesson there as well.

Oh my gosh, I love it. What did you learn about God? What did you learn about your faith during four failures?

Yeah, you know, failures, I don't even call them failures. They were just opportunities that I could have kind of given up on that dream or continued to go. And God, for whatever reason just kept telling me that's what I needed to do. I needed to pursue it. You know, the first time I applied, I wasn't ready. I didn't know I wasn't ready. But God knew I wasn't ready. And that's certainly a reason why I didn't get selected. And his timing is everything. And it's really proven throughout my life. I really trust that this was no different. So even though we did get turned down several times, we weren't super excited at the time. But we tried to trust God as much as we. We could there, especially when we were younger. We didn't have that maturity that we did later on. But then now we just realize it's all God's timing. We got incredible opportunity to. To be at NASA for quite a while.

I know you gotta rewind the clock 20 years here, which is tough. When people ask me questions about what I was thinking five years ago, I'm like, I have no idea. But when you look back on that, how did you discern when to pivot and when to persevere? Right. Whether or not to send the fifth application or whether or not that was God closing the door. And for you to, you know, focus on what was next for your career. How'd you discern that?

We were in. In the year 2000, we got asked to come down to NASA to work, not be an astronaut in the army sense. It was a really good sign that you were one of the top candidates for them for the next selection. And so we got that opportunity and we came to the Johnson space Center in 2000. Generally, they bring you about a year or two before the next election. So the way that turns out, it's. It's like a year or two interview process. So it could be good, could be bad. End up being pretty good for us. The only problem was shortly after that, we had the Columbia accident at NASA, which is a real tragedy, as I'm sure you remember. And that's why we were here. I was training the astronaut commanders and pilots how to land the shuttle. And so landing day was a big deal for my world and the team that I was working with. And when obviously they didn't make it back to Earth, that was a real gut punch, so to speak, for the whole community in the whole nation, as it turns out. So we kind of got through that. The selection got delayed another couple years because of that. And we just decided that was a real kind of turning point. Like the Army's like, hey, you need to come back to the real Army. And my wife and I were prayed a lot about it and decided, you know what, let's just hang out here. We like what we're doing. We want to be part of this kind of getting NASA back on its feet, so to speak, and maybe we'll get selected the next time. And turns out we did. So that was a real turning point. We could have gone back to the army and kind of given up on the dream there, but we persevered and stayed.

Yeah, I love it. Did you grow up following Jesus? Did this happen at an early age for you? What's your faith story?

Yeah, I grew up in a Christian family. You know, I was at church, like in the old days, every Wednesday, every Sunday, all day, pretty much choir, all that kind of stuff. And so I definitely grew up in it. And, you know, early in middle school, I became a Christian. And so through, you know, I think it was a church camp one summer was what really turned the tide for me there. Of course, I'd had it my whole life, even up to then, but really took it on as my own then, even though I was, you know, not super mature at that point, obviously, and had the chance to grow that faith and still growing it now. So I keep learning things day by day. So it's incredible.

How's the time you spent in space growing your faith? How was that experience? I mean, you spent what, a year or so of your life in. In space, is that right?

A little over a year total.

A little over a year. How did that experience shape your understanding of. Of God and who you are as one of his image bearers?

Yeah, you know, that's a great question. The first time I looked out of the window and got a chance to look back at our planet, it just dawned on me like. Like everything I believed in was just completely validated there. It's like a lot of people had this, you know, transformation because, oh, my gosh. Yeah, it had to be God. And for me, it was just like, yep, yep, I was right. That's it. It wasn't me. But I was like, I've just been so blessed to grow up believing that he was a creator. And then to see it from a perspective off the planet, like, that was. Was really special. You know, it didn't transform me greatly. It just helped me appreciate our incredible, beautiful planet Earth a lot more. And I think that's God's hand in that as well. Just, I got to see his incredible creation from different vantage point and to see the beauty of things that we don't think are normally beautiful, whether It's a desert or whatever, but they're striking from that perspective. And the colors and the, you know, just the beauty of. Of course, like things like the Bahamas or, you know, stand out, but things like mountain ranges and. And deserts are equally as beautiful that I didn't ever think of before.

Yeah, it's really good. Did you read the book Rocket men about Apollo 8?

I have not read that one, no.

It's a phenomenal book. It's one of the best books I've ever read. Like, extraordinarily entertaining. And I'm sure you know the story, Right? But I love the story about. You could probably tell it better than I can, but do you know the story about when the astronauts were on board trying to decide what they were going to say addressing humanity on Christmas Eve? They're up there. Who is it? Jim Lovell? Frank Borman, I think it is. And I. I forget the other guy's name. And they're up there. They're the first people to orbit the moon. And they have this television broadcast scheduled for Christmas eve. This is 1968, one of the worst years in American history. Horrible year. So it's like, all right, how are we going to do this? What are we going to say to the people? And because it was Christmas Eve, they were thinking about something Christmasy, right? So, like, I don't know, like, maybe we say something about Santa Claus or like Jingle Bells, right? And they didn't tell anybody what they were going to say. They didn't get approval. They had kind of carte blanche to do whatever they wanted. And they just read from Genesis 1, and I'm like, man, a billion people on Earth were worshiping in that moment. It's pretty cool to see how these guys could use their work to lead the world in worship.

Yeah. Bill Anders was the other one on the crew.

Yeah, Bill Anders.

So I had a moment, not quite that significant, but I got a chance to do something very similar. One of my missions. If you don't mind me sharing that, I'd love it.

Yeah.

And so it was coming up on Christmas. This was back 2016. I'd flown up with the Russians a few months before on the Soyuz. I was thinking about, what should I do on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day special from the space station. And so I thought, hey, why don't I read Luke 2? I mean, that'd be kind of cool Christmas story. Now. You're not supposed to do things like that. Of course, the Apollo guys, like you mentioned, had kind of free reign back in the Day.

They were also living at a different time.

Yeah, yeah. With the government rules and things that we have now, you're not supposed to be able to do kind of religious things. I asked, I went through the right channels, and all of a sudden I see, sure, you can do it. And so, you know, God just opened doors by just asking the right questions and doing it the right way. I saw that over and over. And so Christmas morning, 2016, I got to read Luke 2 over the. What we call the communication channels, or the comm loops from the space station. And so it got transmitted to all the mission control centers around the world, from Europe to Japan to Russia to the U.S. and for me, that was pretty special. And I was in the cupola, which is a module of all windows. I'm looking out at this incredible planet Earth and reading the Christmas stories. It's pretty neat.

That's unreal. What year is this?

2016.

2016. All right. That's pretty remarkable. You got permission from NASA. Read Luke 2. And I love what you said. And God used you asking the right questions in the right way. What do you mean by that? And if you can, try to make your answer applicable to our listeners, you know, who are not astronauts and are trying to talk about their faith at, I don't know, Amazon or the local grocery store that they work at.

No, that's a really good point, because, I mean, I was at the time, I was the commander of the International Space Station. So I was. I was the leader, like, growing up as a leader my whole career. And as a leader, you have to do things by the book. That's what's ingrained in my head. And this was a gray area. Right. For sure. But I still did it by the book. And then I requested it through the right channels, meeting down to mission Control and then through them to work it through the astronaut office to. I didn't know if it was going to get approved or not. I woke up that morning, it popped up on my schedule. I was approved to do it, and I was like, wow, let's go. And several other things. I mean, a handful of things happen like that. Like, I. Shortly after that, a couple weeks after that, on, like, January 3rd, I called into the Passion Conference live, doing a video with 50,000 college students in the genre. And that stuff's not supposed to be approved either. Right. But again, I asked the right questions. I said, you know, I just said, hey, if it worked out, great. If it doesn't work out, that's fine. But I've just. You Know, this is something I like to do if it's, you know, legal for one and it's possible for two, and it all worked out, man, it's so good.

I heard a couple of things I think are applicable to all of our listeners who long to speak more boldly about Jesus in their quote unquote, secular workplaces. Although my listeners know that I believe that's not secular. If you filled with the Holy Spirit are there, number one, be so good they can't ignore you. You wouldn't have had that opportunity unless you were the commander. You were in a position of leadership, and that's because you're exceptional at your craft. Number two, just ask the question, right? Like ask for permission. But number three, do it with gentleness and respect. I'm thinking about First Peter, where Peter's telling us to be prepared to give a reason for the hope that's within us, but to do so with gentleness and respect in obedience to those governing authorities that God has placed there for our good. See Romans 13, right?

That's so good. You nailed it.

Yeah, I love it. Hey, I heard in another interview it may be the passion one. I can't remember that you maintained your times of personal devotion in space. Did your Bible study habits change at all while in outer space, or was it pretty much the same thing you did on the ground?

I would say they were even a little better, honestly.

Well, I bet, yeah.

You have a little more personal time if you choose to use it that way, which is what I did. I flew a Bible on all my missions. They're a little different. And that they have a big piece of Velcro on the back of my Bible versus yours. That doesn't probably. But that way I could stick it on the wall right next to where I was sleeping. And every morning I could wake up and dive in, which is what I normally did. And then for me, on this last mission when I flew up with SpaceX and I actually slept in that SpaceX spacecraft, the beauty of that is I had two incredible windows. I could literally look out at Earth while I'm reading the Bible. And kind of one memory I really had was, you know, I'm just into the Word and I'm looking out, we're flying over the Holy Land. Like, I mean, it was so powerful. Right. Like, this is crazy. And so things like that are just, you know, you can't make it up.

All right, so crystal clear how you worship while you work when you're in outer space. Right. But I'm really curious about the more mundane aspects of being an astronaut that I think our listeners can resonate with. Right. Meetings on Earth about the mission or, I don't know, putting together spreadsheets or meet and greets with space camp kids. I don't know what you do while you're on Earth. What do you think it means to worship in those more mundane, everyday aspects of the job?

You know, believe it or not. So I was there 18 years, right? I flew three times, which is a lot. But, you know, only a year of that, 18 was spent off the planet. So I would say 17 of those years are in the mundane you're talking about. But it's really the process. The whole thing's a process. To me, the way I felt I was worshiping or shining the light was just being consistent, being a good teammate, always being there. People always knew they could count on me. And just trying to put others first, others feelings first, others families first in some situations. And through those things, just being consistent emotionally, you don't get really high or really low. I'm very kind of middle of the road and stay consistent. And in that world, NASA, that's a very good trait to have people really get confidence out of seeing somebody like that and their trust builds in you because you're kind of even keel in those tough situations, you know, whether it's in the simulator where everything's failing or even on orbit if you have an emergency. So it's. It's kind of a good trait to have. And I think that's one way I got to set expectations on the crews I was flying with and the teams I was leading either on or off the planet and was lucky enough to have that gift that God gave me to just kind of be even keel, be consistent and try to care for others. Put them in front of yourself.

Yeah, it's good. It's good. And I'm sure it sounds like that's mostly consistency in terms of just emotional consistency and just being even keel, as you say. But I'm sure you're also consistent in keeping your commitments. By and large, I think maybe the command we are most frequently disobeying and not thinking about is Jesus. Command to let our yes be us.

Right, Man.

If we think about worship, I think the best definition of worship I've ever heard came from Rick Warren that worship is anything we do to bring God to light, and obeying his commands delights him. And so simply doing what you say you're going to do consistently, that is as much worship as you reading the Bible looking at Earth from outer space. Amen.

Well, that's so great. Yeah. And that is, you know, I didn't say that. You said it way better than I did. But that is something I've always tried to do is let my yes be yes. If I say I'm going to do something, I'm going to do it. And that's maybe to a fault sometimes, but.

Yeah, no, but that's when we should be. That's when it's most important for your yes to be yes. When it is to your own heart. Right, Right. Shane, I'm reminded of Psalm 15. 4. I had to just look up. It says, the one who fears the Lord, who keeps an oath even when it hurts and does not change their mind. That's who the psalmist is celebrating like man. Can you think of an example when you were at NASA and you did have to keep a commitment to your own heart, and you did it and it glorified God either explicitly or implicitly.

There's big enough I got to think of which was the right use here. Yeah, I mean, honestly, a lot of the times where I think I. I committed to our team, my crew, which I was. This is in training before we left, I knew how important it was to show them, you know, set the example and to always be there for them. And I think in a way that that hurt my family every now and then because I would stay an extra day on our trip just because I knew how important it was to try to grow this team and bond this team so that when we got to orbit, kind of all the issues were worked out. And so that's probably the biggest one I can think of. It's a good problem. I mean, I have amazing people I'm working with, obviously very high overachievers, but the personalities kind of can come into play several times. And to me, it was so important to work that stuff out on the ground in the year or two that we had to train together. And then by the time we got to orbit, we're super transparent. Everybody knows expectations and knows each other because of the hard work we put on the ground. And some of that was to the detriment of my family, which is a sacrifice.

But if you made that commitment to your crew, you got to do it. I found the full passage, Psalm 15, beginning in verse one. And David, who man spent a lot of time looking up at the stars, Verse one. Lord, who may dwell in your sacred tent, who may live on your holy mountain, the one whose walk is blameless, who Honors those who fears the Lord, who keeps an oath even when it hurts and does not change their mind. I love that. And I love that consistency you've exhibited. Of course, imperfectly. All of us imperfectly. But praise God for the grace that Jesus has shown us in those sins. I want to talk about pride because this came up in the conversation you and I had a couple of months ago. You know, I think you have such an interesting job in that you have the ultimate trump card at every single cocktail party for the rest of the time. Right? Like, I mean, come on, what do you do? I'm the CEO of a Fortune 500 company. What do you do? I'm a best selling author. I flew the space shuttle. Oh my gosh. Has this been a struggle for you? Has pride been a struggle for you throughout your career?

No, it really has not. And it's just, I mean, thank goodness. I mean, God has blessed me with humility and I mean, I've had to work on it for sure. I haven't been praying, perfect at it. But this whole thing, the astronaut thing, was just a job. It wasn't whatever defined me. I mean, it's really hard for a lot of my former colleagues because it does define them and it's easy to do. Obviously you're getting put on a pedestal quite often. You're. When you go speak somewhere and everybody wants your autograph and that kind of stuff, you can really let pride get in the way. But I was again, super fortunate to have some folks in the office that I could lean on, accountability partner, so to speak, and other Christians that it helped me get through some of the early stuff when you're not used to that kind of celebrity kind of status. Once I kind of got through it, then I was like, this is super fun. I mean, it was incredibly fun for me to sign an autograph for a kid that's just looking in my eyes. And I knew I could help inspire them to do something that's really rewarding. And that's kind of how I took those events and tried to inspire the kids and not think that it's all me. It's not me at all. It's God allowing me to use my. My gifts and talents he's given me to. To help inspire either a kid or a faculty member or student or something.

So, yeah, you're not there to get anything because you don't have anything that you need to get. You're there to give because you've been given everything you need in full by the love that God has. Shown you. Is there anything practical? You mentioned accountability partners within NASA, but was there anything practical you could point to? It's like, man, God used that to protect me against, you know, acquiring this massive ego.

My wife and I, it could have been hard and we saw other people in the same situation do different things, but we just tried to stay completely like, tried to keep our kids completely normal, whatever that means. Right, but not expose them to things that other people might get the opportunities to do and just, you know, just keep things completely normal. My wife and I continue to teach Bible study, middle school and high school kids in our church through this whole process. And that, that was a cool thing that we got to do together. That was super rewarding for both of us. Even though it wasn't our kids we were teaching, it was other kids. But it's amazing to have 30 kids instead of three. Things like that kept us grounded because it kept us humble, it kept us in the word, it kept us setting the example and being those adult figures in those kids lives that maybe they had at home or maybe they didn't. And that really kept us grounded. One of the ways we tried to keep it normal for our kids was even when I was on the space station, if they had homework problems and they, you know, we'd either be talking about it or, or they'd send me it up on the email and, and you know, we could work on the homework together and like it sounds really strange, but again that's for our kids that kind of kept it normal. Like, oh yeah, dad's still able to help. He can. And you can also like talk to me when I'm not doing things. I'm doing wrong things too and getting in trouble. So. But we tried to keep it normal that way.

So you're about two years post retirement from NASA, but you still have so much joy. And it sounds like you still have a lot of joy in the work that you're doing now. Is that connected to you think? Just this lack of pride in the work and just the ability to enjoy the work for what it is and not need anything from the work.

Yeah, that's very well said. I'm super blessed to leave NASA and get an incredible job right out of there. That's completely different out in the space world. We don't need to talk about the details there, but super blessed to have this gift. A lot of people that would come in, I guess at the level I'm at, they're all kind of vying for that next position, right. They want to Be the whatever, the coo, the CEO, the president. I don't have any of that aspiration. And I think it's refreshing for the company here to see somebody like me just to come in and just want to work hard and learn new stuff. This is. The business is all new to me, the business side and the business we're in. So it's. I'm a kind of a lifelong learner. I've always said that. And this, this is helping me just expand the things that I've learned and, and seeing how I would say the private sector, but it's a public company, does things. And it's been fascinating. I love it. Super blessed.

I love it. I think we've hinted on a couple of answers to this question, but I want to open up the aperture a little bit. You know, I think by God's common grace, probably a lot of similarities between how you led your missions as a Christian astronaut and how a non Christian would lead her missions as an astronaut. But I am interested in what's distinct and set apart, if anything. Right. And so here's my question. Can you describe a particular experience? Experience during your 18 years at NASA, a decision you made, an action you took, whatever, that could only fully be explained by your commitment to the ways of Jesus?

There's several things come to mind. I'll just kind of generally talk at first.

You can talk specifically if you want. Whatever you want. We got time.

Yeah, but just generally, I mean, I'm thinking most of my crews certainly know who Jesus was, but they were not followers of Jesus. A lot of people on this, in that community or not, we're certainly the minority, as you might imagine. And so I just tried to. The way I treated my crews, the respect I gave them for one, really, it's the love I tried to show them in an environment where normally that's not a thing. Right. But being personal and investing in them, investing in their families emotionally, events we did, when I put three other crew members on the spacecraft, and I'm the commander, I don't just have to look those three in the eye to tell them that I'm going to get them home safely. I got to look their kids and their spouses in the eye and promise them that I'm going to do everything I can to get them to space and get them home and return to them. And so it's a different level of responsibility that I felt there. The way I did it, I think is a little more probably gentle than most. And I think that's just due to the grace that God's given me over my lifetime. And I want to try to impart that on them as well as just the incredible love and mercy that has been shown me throughout my life. And I want to pass that along. And so we tried as a crew not to get into politics or religion. That was just kind of an unwritten rule on the space station. It does come up every now and then, but at least for our crews. And I respected that because I'm creating this highly functional team in a crazy environment. I didn't want kind of things to mess that up. The vibe or whatever you want say we had going. And our crews are extremely functional. When I got to do events like we talked about Passion earlier and a few other things, calls down to Fresh Life Church or Passion Church on this past mission or doing a podcast with Lauren Daigle live on the station, they're all listening to all this stuff while I'm doing it. And so the talks around the dinner table that night were incredible. So the doors kind of just flooded open like, hey, what was that? Who was that? That was amazing. You know, tell me more about it. And so that's how God used kind of those opportunities in a way to, for me to talk to my crew about Christ and about, you know, what that event was and so, you know, who knows what seed that planted in them. Hopefully it's a good one that'll flourish here one of these days. I pray for them every day.

Yeah, I love that you had to build super high performing teams. I mean, I can't think of a different vocation where you got to build that high caliber of a team. What in the way that Jesus led do you think was most influential in your thinking about how to build that high capacity team?

I think just humility, the way Jesus led with humility. What I tried to emulate and of course I couldn't nail it, obviously, but just the nature I had, the calmness, I would say incredibly competent in the material and the systems we had to know and the emergencies, that's one thing. Set an example in that regard is, is very important because if they don't trust your competency, then it's going to be really hard to lead folks like that. So God gave me the gifts to do that and to study hard and to work really hard and know the systems so that the leadership piece was much easier. And again, set an example. No matter whether it's going on a survival school trip with our crew here on Earth, you know, going to space for 200 days it's got incredible opportunities to lead, sometimes not lead, sometimes be a follower, but tried to be the best follower I could with the commander at the time and be a great teammate. What I thought Jesus would maybe be as a crew member, kind of show that light and love and grace and mercy for others.

That's good. Our mutual friend Randy Alcorn believes that we might explore the new heavens for all of eternity. That checks out with, as I use my biblically informed imagination of I, Isaiah 65 and long enjoying the work of our hands on the new Earth. So I want you to imagine for a second that we will right, and King Jesus taps you to pilot the greatest spacecraft, glory of the nations we can imagine to launch from the new Earth. What in the world would that look like? What would you look forward to most about exploring the new heavens without out the curse of sin? Like, can you even go there mentally? Can you even imagine that?

No, I can't. I can't honestly do it justice. But I think the coolest thing would be for me to be able to be piloting that ship with my family on board. That would be incredibly special, right? I didn't get to do that here with, with NASA, unfortunately, but I think I wouldn't have come home if my family is up there with me. But yeah, that'll be pretty cool to be able to do that with your loved ones, with your. The people, your friends and family that you love. And to experience the new heavens is going to be spectacular. Especially with the. Without, like you said, the curse of sin. It's going to be amazing.

No pride, no. No animosity, no subpar teams. Just killing it all to God's greater glory. Killing. It's probably a bad, bad term to talk about the new Earth.

I know what you're saying, though.

I've got this new children's book coming out October 22nd called the Royal and you. And it's imagining this. It's imagining Revelation 22:5. What does it mean that we're going to reign forever and ever with Christ, the new heavens and the new Earth. There's this one line, it says, maybe you'll explore galaxies far, far away and marvel at what God wants made in a day. As you look ahead to this eternal vocation. What do you want to do in the new Earth? Would you love to pilot spacecraft or is there some other career there? Man, I've always wanted to do that, but I just haven't had the time in this life.

I like the first idea there, piloting spacecraft around the Galaxies will be pretty cool.

Finally make it to Mars.

Yeah, exactly. I think my impression of all this and reading is that whatever talents we have, that's where you get the chance to do up there. And so I certainly want to do something in a servant world. Like I love serving others and that kind of thing. And so I hope it involves me getting to do a lot of that. And whether that's carrying somebody's suitcases up there or whatever, I would love to be in a servant role. Have fun too. Like I said, maybe a pilot or I love sports, so maybe that's involved. And being a. Being a professional athlete in heaven would be kind of cool too. I didn't get the chance to do that here, so that'd be awesome.

In a glorified resurrected body.

Yeah, that sounds.

That sounds pretty cool. There was a 0% chance I was going pro in 90 SP, so that.

Sounds pretty fun to me.

Hey, Shane, if we opened up your Amazon order history, what book would we see you buying over and over and over again to give to friends?

I'd say they're kind of in two categories. Leadership is one and kind of, I guess, Christian side is the other. A couple of my favorites. I don't know if you've heard or read Levi Lusko's book called Last Supper on the Moon. I have read it, which is pretty amazing. It's really good. The way he breaks it down. I love that one. Louis Giglio's Don't Give the Enemy a seat at your Tables, one of my recent favorites, I guess, which has a great message. Obviously a couple of the leadership books I like. Reaching youg Next Summit by Manly Feinberg's a great one. He's a mountain climber, obviously a guy that helped build up, build a bear as well the company. And now he's just this crazy mountain climber, but he uses incredible lessons from mountain climbing.

That sounds really good.

Wrote that book. It's a good one. Really good one. It has kind of end of each chapter. It has practical applications for your life, for your business and stuff. So that's kind of cool. Extreme Ownership's one of my favorites. Leadership Wise, one of my all time favorite books. Yeah, me too. And some other little ones like make youe Bed, Adam McRaven and things like that. Those are just quick hitters and really good lessons learned.

I can take or leave. Make your bed. I thought it was okay. But Extreme Ownership, that is a dynamite recommendation. I don't think it's ever been mentioned on this podcast before, which blows my Mind, it's such a great book.

You already talked about Randy, so Randy's book, Heaven, obviously is a great one.

Oh, my gosh. So killer. So killer.

All right, that's it.

Shane, who would you most like to hear on this podcast talking about how the gospel has shaped their work that they do in the world?

You know, just because it's recent in my mind with the activities and things, things that have been going on on earth recently, I would love for you to have an Olympic athlete on there. There's been some, some that really have professed their faith after winning or losing. Sidney McLaughlin comes to mind. Anna Hall, Cole Hawker, people like that, they're really. I think they would be an incredible guest for you to have and for them to share even more than they did to the millions of people watching the Olympics. But I love sports and like I mentioned earlier, and so to me, to see people like that, Scotty Scheffler, I mean, other people that are even Ted Scott, Scotty's caddy, is another one that is just a great believer and shares his faith openly. So people like that, I love that.

We'Ve had Olympic gold medalists from past Olympic Games, but not this one that just ended this past week as we're recording this. So that's a great suggestion. And by the way, I love that you have to say on Earth. I love that you have to qualify that. You said that like three times, like on Earth. Yeah, we get it. You, you live in outer space. We understand. Hey. But for those of us on Earth who are spread out over the earth, global audience of mere Christians doing a lot of different things vocationally, but seeking to do it well for God's glory and the good of others. What's one final thing you'd like to say or reiterate to that audience before we sign off?

It may be a couple things, but I just want to let everybody know, like, we never have it all figured out. None of us. Whether it looks that way or not, I'm always striving to do better, trying to get more in the word, trying to be a better Christian, a better husband, a better father, better friend. So just keep pressing. You're never going to necessarily figure it all out. And that's normal for one. Next is just trust that Jesus is faithful and he's always going to come through for you. Every time I've seen it over and over in my life and, and so many people can say the same thing, I just want to reiterate. He will always come through. He never lets us down.

It's really good. Shane, I want to commend you man for the exceptional work you do for the glory of God and the good of others. For reminding us of how our work can be a canvas for worship and the extraordinary and the extraterrestrial and the ordinary. And man, just for giving us a three dimensional model of what it looks like to follow Jesus in seemingly quote unquote secular work. Friends, if you want to keep up with Shane, you could follow him on social media at Astro underscore Kimbrough. Shane, is that the best place for people to keep up with you?

Yep, that'll be perfect. Thanks Jordan.

Great. Thanks for hanging out with us today Shane.

Enjoyed it. Thanks for having me.

Wow. I hope you guys enjoyed that conversation and had as much fun listening as I had had recording that episode. Man, that was a lot of fun. Hey, if you're enjoying the Mere Christians podcast, do me a huge favor. Can you take five seconds right now and go leave a five star rating of the show on Apple, on Spotify, wherever you listen. Let me tell you why. When we reach out to really, really, really big names like Shane Kimbrough or Tony Dungy or Candace Cameron Bray whoever to come on the show, their teams really look at one thing to decide whether or not the show is quote unquote big enough to come onto it's the number of ratings the show has on Apple in particular and also Spotify. So could you do me a favor? Go leave a review right now so we can get more amazing people on this show to talk about how the Gospel is shaping their work in the world. Hey thank you guys so much for tuning in to today's episode. I'll see you next time week. Hey friends, this is your last chance to claim all the amazing pre order bonuses for five mere Christians before they go away at 11:59pm Eastern Standard Time on May 9. I've never offered this many pre order bonuses on a book before, so when you fill out the form@5merechristians.com Number one, you're going to be entered to win an incredible trip for you and a friend to tour CS Lewis's favorite spots in Oxford, explore Olay, Kirk Christiansen's former stomping grounds at Lego headquarters in Denmark, and much more. Number two, you'll be invited to join my first ever interactive reading, culminating in a zoom call with me and my co author on this book, Kaylee Cox. Number three, you're going to be getting a money back guarantee to try the book risk free. And number four, you'll also get access to a free course I'm not selling anywhere called how to write a book 10x faster and better with an Affordable co Author. You can claim all these bonuses in just two simple steps. Step 1 Pre order 5 mere Christians in any format you want. It can be hardback, ebook, audiobook, whatever, and you can order it from wherever. It doesn't matter to me. Step 2 Go to 5meerchristians.com and fill out the form of that page. And that's it. I'll send you all those bonuses. You'll be entered into the sweepstakes with one simple form submission. But hey, don't wait all of these off. All of these offers, all these bonuses. They're going away at 11:59pm Eastern Standard Time on May 9th. So visit 5meerchristians.com right now to claim your bonuses.