Wendy Speake (Author of The 40-Day Social Media Fast)

The episode you're about to listen to was released back when the Mere Christians podcast was called the Call to Mastery. Now, if you love Mere Christians, you're still going to love these older episodes because the majority of each conversation focuses on how the gospel influences the work of our guests. With that disclaimer out of the way, please enjoy the episode. Hey everybody. Welcome to the Call to Mastery. I'm Jordan Raynor. This is a podcast for Christians who want to do their most exceptional work for the glory of God and the good of others. Each week I host a conversation with a Christ follower who's pursuing world class mastery of their craft. We talk about their path to mastery. We talk about their daily habits and how their faith influences their work. Today's guest is Wendy Speake. She's the author of a few massive best selling books including triggers and the 40 day social media Fast. She's a terrific writer and marketer, obviously both key ingredients to being a masterful author. So Wendy and I recently sat down. We talked about how she sold more than 100,000 copies of her first self published book. We talked about the impact that a conversation she had early in her life had about honing her craft. And we talked about the impact that social media fasts are having on Christ followers in their work and at home. Please enjoy this conversation with my friend, Wendy. Speaker Wendy, thanks for being here.

You're welcome. I'm super excited, actually. I have a huge smile on my face. This is a conversation I've been looking forward to.

Well, I was going to say, I mean you and I have traded quite a few emails over the years, friend.

Without being one of my friends. I totally along with, I'm like, hey, I'm friends with someone that's a friend with you and I have some questions and you've been so generous with me. So I'm really grateful for that.

I'm, I'm happy to do it. And likewise, you felt like a good friend from afar, but this is actually the first time we've ever spoken live. We, we share this really great mutual friend, Kelly Stewart, who has recorded what's still one of my favorite episodes of this podcast, episode number nine. Kelly, of course, if you guys remember, is the great writer of award winning fiction. So Wendy, first question. I'm really curious. You, you've known Kelly a lot longer than I have. Tell me something I don't know about our mutual friend Kelly Stewart. Maybe something embarrassing, please.

Oh goodness. You know, I, I, I met them almost immediately after Matt and I got married and moved to we la, where I was living, to Dallas, Texas, where my. My new husband was my only husband. He wasn't just a new husband. I mean, it was only husband. And we started going to a church and started going to a Sunday school class, and Lee and Kelly Stewart were there. And just immediately the guys connected. And when they realized that Kelly was a writer and I was an actress who also loved to write, they thought that we would be great friends. So I got Kelly's phone number. And this is more an embarrassing story on me than it is her, but it is her favorite story to tell on me, so I feel like it's the right one. Supposedly I called, and the first thing I said was, so I hear you like to take tea. Who says that? Apparently I did 20 years ago. And so we started this habit of meeting up at the Starbucks in Barnes and Noble in Plano, Texas. And we would sit and we would share story ideas, share our dreams. And at that point, I was still writing screenplays, just thinking, maybe the Lord is going to open up an opportunity for that at some point. When I was working in Hollywood as an actress, I just kept thinking, you know, I think it's screenplays that I want to do. So we did a lot of reading each other's work. And over the years, even after having children trying to fit in with where we were going to do our creative work, when it didn't naturally fit into that mothering season of so many little ones, we decided to host creative retreats for moms. And our husbands were so supportive, and we hosted five of them. And we would get together and everyone had their own room, and we would write during the days, and at night, we would have wonderful meals and share what we had written and just share our dreams together.

That's awesome. So those Barnes and Noble meetings, it was you and Kelly and your own little inklings and Barza? We were just talking about Lewis before we started recording one of my favorite topics, so. All right. You mentioned acting prior to writing books. Talk about that transition. Talk about your story. You started in Hollywood. You're working as an actress. How did you get to the place? How did God lead you to the place where you're writing nonfiction these days?

Well, I love. I love that you said, how did God lead you? And really, it's. It is my favorite story to tell of God leading in my life. I don't know if you've ever had one of those moments where God speaks so clearly. Your spirit feels like it's an auditory communication. I mean, it's audible, you know, it's just, it's so strong, it's so clear. And I was a freshman in college in Boston. I had gone to Boston because there was an acting coach I had wanted to study with even in high school. I had gone to LA County High School for the Arts and studied acting. I mean, this is what I wanted to do. I never wanted to do anything else except for when I was very young. I wanted to be a taxi driver. I mean a truck driver and have. But outside of that, like it's only been acting. And so I was as a freshman in, in college in Boston. I was very sick in the Brownstones. The, the heat was different than I'm used to in la. Inside the houses, it was cold outside and I had this terrible bronchial infection for most of winter. So one night I'm sitting in the bathroom and in my dorm room with the shower, the steam going as well as I had Vic rub on my chest. I was drinking the Rubitussin out of the bottle. And so it's possible that I was a little bit loop loopy, but spoke so clearly. And he said, because I was crying out, God, what do you want me to do? I don't think I'm supposed to be in Boston. I do think I'm supposed to study acting, but I feel like you have something very specific for me. When, what is it? And you've got my yes. And that became really the prayer of my life. Tell me what to do, you've got my yes. And he said so clearly three things. He said, you keep loving me, you keep loving others and hone your craft. Keep loving me, keep loving others and hone your craft. And I will bring those three things together. And I knew in that moment that it was something very specific. I thought that perhaps I would be writing one woman shows, touring around and doing one woman shows that allowed me to transition into Bible teaching or the gospel. And that's really what I thought it would be for the next 18 years. I was just kind of waiting for God to swing open those doors as I continued to love him, pursue him in his work, love others and share Christ with them and hone my craft as an actor and a writer, but mostly as an actor. And I struggled so much in Hollywood finding the right opportunities. I had plenty of opportunities to audition and even go straight to producers for films and TV shows that were so opposed not only to the gospel, but my sensibilities as a Christ follower. I really. All those opportunities weren't opportunities. And it was Very stressful. And around that time I met my husband. We were long distance sweethearts, got married very fast. I moved to Texas and. And almost immediately started writing.

Hmm. I love it. And so today, this phenomenally successful writer of nonfiction, I mean your book, you've had a couple of major books. And by the way, we share something in our stories as writers. We've never talked about this obviously, but we both started self publishing.

Yeah.

And then moved to traditional. I know we got a lot of people listening to this episode who are really curious about self versus traditional publishing. So I want to camp here for just a second. Yours. And let's just be honest, right. Your self published books, exponentially more successful than my own. Triggers was a big deal. Right. How many copies of that book have you guys sold?

We have it. We launched it four years ago, I believe, maybe coming close to five. And we've sold, I think. I mean, you count the audio and the ebook and the paperback, we've hit 100,000 just recently.

Yeah, guys, that's a lot of books. There's a reason why when you hit a hundred thousand, they slap a hundred thousand on the label. My wife read Triggers. Love Triggers. So I'm curious, what did you guys do, right. With that self published out? Because a self published title usually doesn't sell 1,000.

Right, right, right.

There's good data. Support this. What did you guys do?

Right. Yeah, I'm. I really want to give practical help to those listening. And I'm a little bit concerned of sounding too just, well, Jesus, you know, he did it. But there was this element of, you know, that prayer that I prayed when I was 18 when. When I said, God, whatever you want, you've got my yes. And in a way, I feel like God swept me up in a narrative that he had been writing, which I do believe that is what our lives are like. And I did learn things in the process, but in the way instead of going into Triggers with all these smart ideas, I felt like Triggers was my master's. It was my masterclass in how to be masterful and at writing and launching a book. And I never thought of myself as a masterful marketeer or even writer at that point, but I learned so much in the process. So the story is that Amber, Leah and I were writing for a website for moms. And the woman who owned the website said, I'm getting so many emails from moms who are struggling with anger. Would anyone, anybody, be willing to host a private Facebook group? And Amber was the first one to say yes. I Think I wasn't quite yet writing on that team. Actually, Kelly was writing for the same website, and I think she was the one that said, hey, you got to have my friend Wendy. Anyway, I came over, and Amber at that point, was saying, too many thousands of women are joining this group. I can't handle it on my own. And I said, well, I might know a thing or two about struggling with mommy anger. Okay, I'll join you. And in that group, one day, I very casually said, so what are your triggers? And it needed no explanation. And thousands of women responded, why can't they get their shoes on and get in the car? Sibling rivalry. My hormones are out of whack. My husband's constantly traveling. I'm doing it all on my own. All the noise, all the mess, and on and on and on. And the next day, Amber wrote a post and said, we're not here to teach you how to get your children to learn to get their shoes on and get in the car so you don't have to be angry. Let's focus on what's going on with us in those triggered moments. And we just started going through it one at a time. And I'm leading to an answer to your question here, a very specific one. We wrote the book day by day in that group with, I don't know, maybe 18,000 people at that point. And they started begging for it to be given to them in some way, like a collection of these posts. Would you please put this together as a book? And so very quickly we did, and Kelly and I had sat under. Oh, goodness. Oh, shoot, shoot, shoot. What's the teaching? He wrote a book called Marketing Like Wildfire. And I can't think of his name right now, but Kelly and I went to a breakout session at a writers conference where he spoke. And one of the main things he said was, give all your content away. Give it away, give it away, give it away. Give it away now. And so I had already done that and seen the following, and I was like, yeah, that makes sense. Because then you grow your audience before you release your book. You have your following. They've already told you that they want it. And it was one thing you did so beautifully, just with little squares on Instagram. Jordan before called to create. You might not have given away the content, but you gave away enough of allure that people were asking for more of it. So I think we try to be really like, well, I want to be quiet. This is mine. I don't want anyone else to start writing about it. I don't want to share too much where they won't buy the book. And I think that the main thing that I learned was give it away and the follow. The next big book that I had was the 40 day sugar fast. And I had been hosting an online 40 day Sugar Fast for six years and had 15, 20,000 people signing up for it annually. And at that point I was like, well, I know, I know that I could make more money if I self publish, but I feel like maybe I'm supposed to traditionally publish this one.

I want to come back, so I want to pause there because I think that's a really important question to talk about the difference and why you made the lead to traditional. But real quick, I just want to make sure that our audience hears crystal clearly what you're saying because there's so much wisdom here. Build your audience first.

Yes.

Give away as much content as you possibly can. And oh, by the way, as you do that, it's a means of testing content and figuring out what people are resonating with. I know a lot of people who are like, you know, God's given me gifts as a writer, as a communicator, but I don't know the topic. And my advice is place little bets, as many as you possibly can through a blog, through a podcast. I publish a lot of content on YouVersion's Bible app. In fact, pretty much all of my books are in one of 30 something youversion plans. Right. But it's a great, great way to, to test content, to find the right book concept at the same time that you build an audience. And here's what I've learned. It sounds like you learned this too, with triggers. People will pay for packaging.

Yes.

Right. People will pay for you to take what? Otherwise they would have to go to 30 different places for 30 different devotionals, 30 different blog posts, whatever, and consolidate it into a $10 package. They'll pay for that. That's worth $10, right?

Absolutely. Yeah.

So, so, all right, you make the leap to traditional publishing. You sign with Baker, who I wrote with on on called to Create. Why make. Why make the leap to traditional publishing? I think a lot of people are curious about this, especially people who, who have already self published. Why make the leap?

Yeah, well, and when you self publish a book, it's, it's very easy. And one of my passions is keeping the cost of books low. And I know that that's not popular in book publishing, but for me, especially because every book I've written points to the gospel, I just am A little uncomfortable with hawking the gospel. And so I've really enjoyed the fact that everything that I've written I've given away for free. And if I'm going to package it well for the sugar fast, a lot of the women that want that are Midwestern housewives triggers stay at home moms. I'm not looking to take advantage and put out a really pricey book. So I like having some of the creative freedom, I like having the price freedom. And I've Learned that minimum 70% of most books but I think it's closer to 80, 85% of books are purchased on Amazon.

I'd say it's closer to 98% it may be.

And the only books that, that sell well in stores are by famous people who've been doing it for a long time. You know you, you can of course find the Purpose Driven Life, you can find Max Lucado books, you can find Lisa Turker's books, you can find Anne Voss Camp books. I, I'm not, I'm not Anvil's Camp. I am, you know, I've got a nice little humble start of building a social media following but I'm not a huge author so I didn't expect to get into stores and yet I had this sense that I think the 40 day sugar fast is going to go beyond me. And so I told my agent, why don't we send it out there to publishers? But I said to him, I want you to know I might still choose to self publish. And we had such a resounding yes interest. We had five offers and I took that as confirmation that the books that the book publishers sought and said not only can we make a buck off your hard work and what you're already doing online, but we've got a vision for what we can do. So I actually with a couple of these publishers, I had multiple phone interviews where I was interviewing them about their marketing team. And that was the first time I called you and said tell me the lowdown on Baker Publishing. And you had so many wonderful things to say that I ended up taking your advice and going with Baker.

Yeah, and listen, I made that call. So I self published two books. I went with Baker on Call to Create. I went through Random House on Master of One. And as my audience knows, I just signed a five book deal with Random House and I'm all in on traditional publishing. Actually. We just launched a course recently called how to Land a Book Deal with no Platform. Because with Called to Create we really didn't, you know, we had some, you know, some Instagram followers, but when we actually got the deal, we had nothing. When the book launched, we had a platform, but when we signed the deal, we didn't. And it. Yeah. And in the course, I kind of break down like how we did that, how we pulled that off. In, in it, I talk about the eight reasons why today I'm all in on traditional versus self publishing. There are a couple of reasons that I would still recommend self publishing. And by the way, if you're curious about this, you guys can actually watch the first lesson of that course for free at access.jordanrayner.com and that first lesson breaks down all the differences between those things. But, but you, you've had a good experience. Traditional publishing, right?

I don't know if you know this, but not only was it in all the typical brick and mortars like the Barnes and Noble bookstores, but it ended up in Target. It ended up in Hobby Lobby, I think has been the biggest book seller of the 40 day sugar fast. They just agreed to carry the 40 day social media fast, which is the next book, and so did Target. Target is going to carry the 40 day social media fast in all 1700 plus stores throughout the U.S. oh my gosh. I mean, I'm just sitting here, amazing, jaw on the floor going, what?

It's amazing.

You know, books are just supposed to sell online unless you're famous. And I'm, I'm Wendy, I'm not famous. So it's just been really cool to watch this process. I still have the sense though, that I'm going to do some more self publishing. I really enjoy speed with which you can self publish. If you hit a felt need in that moment and you don't want to wait two years, then self publishing is a great option.

Well, I think we saw a lot of self publishing in 2020, right, with COVID and race relations and really hot topics. People had to get to market fast and self publishing is usually the only way to get there. So, hey, you brought up the 40 day social media fast. I'm so glad you did because this podcast is all about the pursuit of mastery so that we can glorify God and serve others really well. And I've talked a lot in the past on this podcast in my book, Master of One, about how, in my opinion, and according to the data, right, one of the keys to mastering your craft, whether you're a writer or a marketer or an entrepreneur, whatever, is deep work, it's the ability to focus without distraction for huge chunks of time to get stuff done and to do that, man. Today, in our modern day and age, social media is, is one of, if not the biggest distractions in our lives.

And maybe not just social media, but no, it's not the ringing, dinging presence.

Of the phone kingdom exactly. It's the kingdom of noise, as C.S. lewis put it in Screwtape letters. Right? We are living in the kingdom of noise. It's news services, it's the phone, it's the laptop, it's social. So I'm curious, was it your pursuit of mastery of your craft, of honing your craft that led you to this point where you care so deeply about this social media fast concept?

No. That sounds like a wonderful idea. I did read Deep Work by Cal Newport and it did affect me deeply. I'm also a mom of three teenage boys and I started writing when I had, you know, right before starting to have children. So I've always had distractions. However, I'll tell you how the social media fast game came to be. And then I want to talk more about this idea of silencing those distractions so that we can do the deep work, whatever that deep work is. It was in leading the 40 day sugar fast year after year in an online setting that I would say, you know, this really isn't about sugar. God never called us to a sugar sacrifice. He called us to a living sacrifice. So if you're turning to sugar, instead of turning to him, lay it down, turn to him. That's what we're doing. So that's sugar fast in a nutshell. But during those 40 days, I would say, because this isn't about sugar, what else is it? What else are you turning to? We're going from sugar high to sugar high instead of turning to the most high. Is there another God that you're that is on the throne of your life? Is your phone on the throne? Is there a digital demigod? And over and over I heard people say, yes, sugar was an issue, is an issue, but my phone, please, somebody help me with social media. And so it was in the context of already fasting with this, with this very Jesus hungry community where I wrote the book for them because they asked for it. And that's sort of the same idea as what my triggers experience had been. I knew I hit a felt need, so I wrote into that need. Rather than trying to figure out what I wanted to write about and trying to get other people on board with reading what I wanted to write, I found what's the need and I pressed into that. So that's how it came to be. But I want to tell you what the subtitle of the book is because I think it really will help us focus on our craft now, and that is exchanging online distractions for real life devotion. And in the book, we focus a lot on devotion to God. Instead of social media, let's get social with him. Instead of social media, let's get social with the real life flesh and blood blessings that God's given us in our homes, in our lives, in friendship, but also neighbors and the people not only online but in line at the grocery store. Are we so distracted that we aren't even ambassadors in our real lives anymore? Because we're so distracted. However, let's go the next step and let's talk about what we're doing, what we're called to do in his image, in whatever it is we're putting our hands to right now that takes focus on honing the craft mastery work and why aren't we doing it? And I think the answer is we are a distracted bunch of ragamuffins. Yeah.

Yeah. So I completely agree. So what do we do about. Because here's the I've learned that I don't think people need to be convinced this is a problem.

No, they don't.

You're right. I think, I think three years ago, maybe we still need to be convinced this was a problem. Everybody gets this a problem. What's the solution to the problem in your opinion?

Right. Well, Cal Newport has a follow up book to Deep Work called Digital Minimalism. And it was in that book that I learned just this one takeaway that I think is huge. And I use it when I'm fasting as well as I get, as I get my other fasting friends to prepare to kind of go back into life beyond a fast. I say instead of figuring out what hours you're going to set your phone down, which hours you're going to keep all of the emails, notifications and news notifications at bay. Okay. You know, I used to say, when the kids were young, honey, to my husband, let's put our phones away from dinner time till bedtime. And that was a good block of focused time. So we could do the deep work of parenting. Yeah.

Yeah.

And we could say, okay, but my writing block is from nine to one. Okay. During that time, let's put the phone away. But in digital minimalism, Cal Newport says instead of choosing which times you're going to put your phone away, choose the times you're going to pick Your phone up.

Yeah.

And that to me is like, you know, mind blowing. It sounds the same. It really sounds the same. But you're saying I live my life undistracted. However, because I have work and because I have relationships, I need to take a break from that focus life and be distracted for a moment by other things. And in a way, I'm not distracted because I'm opening it up with an intentionality. I'm saying I have some things I need to do. I have work I do online. You have work you do online. One of the things I'm assuming that you've done that I know that I've done is I've delegated, I've hired people. Now I'll send an email or a Google Doc to my VA with all the quotes and the posts for social media, Monday through Friday, a month in advance. And she made the graphics with templates that I already made and approved. And then she, she schedules them ahead of time. So I'm choosing things that will help limit my distractions.

Yeah. So here's the mindset shift that I think is the difference maker between this mindset of choosing when to put my phone away and scheduling when I'll pick it up. I've learned in talking to a lot of different people on this podcast and outside the podcast, it's this mental hurdle that you've got to believe that you have control over when you respond to incoming messages, whether it's a Facebook message or a text message or an email, whatever. It is impossible, I believe, ultimately to go deep at home or at work until you believe that pretty much nothing's urgent and you have a plan in place for letting the VIPs in your life reach you. If something is urgent, this is like the key to mastery. It's just confining the times at which you're going to be responsive and doing in a responsible way that serves the people you're serving through your work and through your life at home really well.

If you don't mind, I want to just comment on one thing you said here, please.

Yeah.

You said that, you know, learning that you have control over this is huge. One of the things that I've noticed when inviting people online to get offline is they don't feel that they do have control. And one of the things that I've said is the 40 day social media fast is not a digital detox. It is saying I don't have the self control. And so I'm going to, for 40 days, submit to God's control I'm making this a spiritual discipline over an area of my life where I lack self control, I'm going to actually abide with Christ so in such a focused way that I will grow the fruit of self control in my life. But I'm logging off because I'm out of control. And I'm giving God control over this out of control area of my life, whether that's eating or social media. But in this case, social media. And I have learned during those times when I log off, and now even a week before I log off for an extended period of time, I get giddy, Jordan. I get like. I get like giddy. Like before you go on a vacation, I almost feel like I'm packing my bags for a virtual vacation. And I noticed the very first time I took a prolonged fast from social media, I walk different. Like my hands were swinging by my side. And I realized, oh, it's because my hands are empty. And things just started to change. And when I came back, I thought, well, I don't really want to. I feel like I need to come back. But I started putting boundaries in place. And I think we don't want boundaries. We think boundaries are going to be a killjoy. But when you think about, like the straps that come over your shoulders to go on a roller coaster, those are boundaries. They keep you in, they hold you in, they keep you safe, they keep you alive. So if you do a loop de loop, you don't fall out and die on a roller coaster. And so I've learned that fasting from social media, whether it's for blocks in the day or all day Sunday and 40 days during Lent, really helps me to recognize, you know, I get to a place of being out of control, and so I give God control and it becomes a spiritual discipline. Because without it being a spiritual discipline, I find that I justify. Well, you know, I know I don't usually, but right now I need to. Because another boundary that I set for myself that has helped me as a writer, but also as simply a follower of Christ is I put the word before the world. It is my number one commitment to open the Word of God each morning before I open myself up to the World Wide Web or anyone else in the world. I mean, sometimes I talk to my husband or my children beforehand, but before I check what, you know, if there's an email from you in the morning, before I find out how my post went last night that I thought might be really engaging, I'm going to engage with the one who made the world not everybody else in the world and prepares me to receive, to hear from God about what my work is for the day. I mean time in the word shapes what I write that day. Oh yeah, always. And so I know it sounds like it's not a part of our writing strategy, but it's part of our strategy as Christ followers and it influences my writing.

Oh yeah, absolutely. And so for me, I have a similar habit. My phone goes to bed at 7:30pm and I don't let it out of its room until 7 o' clock am. I wake up at 5am and 5 to 6 is time in the word. 6 to 7 is time with my kids. And then 7 o' clock I'm starting to get ready for the day. So actually I want to take the conversation in a different direction. Talk me through the TikTok of your day. Right for the moment you wake up to the moment you go to bed. What is the timeline of a typical day for Wendy?

Like look like I will tell you a little bit about that and then I'll tell you how I've learned to write anyway. Please. Yeah. Because I'm an easily overwhelmed person. I've learned this about myself. I don't know if you've ever talked about the enneagram. I'm a four. I'm just an uber creative. I get easily overwhelmed with a lot of emotion and I have three children and a husband who are not what's the word? I want to make sure I'm speaking well of them. They have high needs of me. I homeschool my three sons part time through a charter and there are learning challenges and there's behavioral stuff that has led me to do so much personal work that it overflowed into triggers. So I have a very hands on life at home. I'm doing this interview from my she shed. My husband built me a place to go and write now that the boys are older I can do that. I do have a writing working block in my day. So I wake up around six, I open up the Word. I like to open up a paper Bible because I love to mark it up and underline and highlight asterisk and write notes and write prayers and write letters to my children in it. I mean I'm just a very interactive Bible reader right now. I'm enjoying however early in the morning listening to the Word on my phone. So I've been doing that recently. So however it looks like that is what I do first. And then I get up, I make everybody breakfast which our friend Kelly, who is she Writes more words than anybody else I know. She's a fast writer and a hard writer and I'm a slow writer. She keeps telling me, your kids can make their own breakfast, get to work. But it is just what I've done from the beginning and what I prioritize. So we sit down at the table together, we read through a proverb together, I make sure the kids have what they need for the day. And then once everybody is settled, I get out and I do my work. I have learned to work with a checklist next to me, a legal sized pad of paper, and I'll either start on yesterday's list that I didn't complete, but what I like to do is find those pieces I didn't complete and do a fresh page because it focuses my mind. I told you, I've learned that I'm an easily overwhelmed person. I have learned that I am masterful at a few things, but I fail at everything if I have to do everything. And so everything must be.

I think we're all the same way.

Yeah, yeah. I get very easily overwhelmed. And then one of the chapters I did not put in the book, Triggers, the things that set us off at our kids is I found that writing Triggers was one of my biggest triggers. Writing or doing anything that really takes my focus. Time can make it so. I'm very short tempered with my children unless I've learned where writing belongs to and where family belongs. And if I know how those things fit together, then I can be fully present when I'm writing and I can be fully present when I'm mothering. And sometimes I need to stop being fully present in my work life because there's a need that comes up and I'm willing to prioritize that. Just the other day I was doing a Zoom party with the launch team for this latest book and I had 50 people that had just hopped on this Zoom party and they were going to tell me their testimonies of how they interacted with the lord during the 40 day social media fast. It was day 40 and they were about to come back online. And four minutes into it, my son ran in and said, emergency. And I left and I never came back. I ended up taking a child to the emergency room and that to me was a picture of there must be a place for writing, there must be a place for family. And yet sometimes we must let go and go to the people that need us in that moment. But I have learned because it's hard for me to work in a focused way in our Daily life here. I find that during those three hour blocks I'm very good at scheduling, social media, maybe writing a blog post. I'm not good at writing a book in three hour blocks and I wish that I was, that I've done a lot of careful analysis and talking through with my husband and I found that when I have three days, I can write three chapters. And so once every other month or so, my husband will take the boys on a camping trip. And I've learned that that's when my real book writing happens. Three days at a time over the course of five or six months. And I do write during those three hour blocks. But really the deep work, I need that much quiet for my, for my soul to settle my, my mind to really settle and to do the craft of writing.

So one of the things I find really valuable is having space and time in between chunks of writing to make creative connections and to find analogies, whatever. So for example, I just outlined the whole next book. I did something different this time. I outlined every single chapter in detail, then went back to the beginning and wrote in full prose.

How'd that work?

I loved it. I think I'll always do it this.

Way Again, that's what I heard from people.

That's what I guess because previously I would outline a full chapter and then I would write that chapter and then I would outline the next chapter, write the next chapter. But this time, yeah, it was the time and space in between that I knew what was in the outline. And so lots of, a lot of the best analogies came, you know, for in chapter one came when I was outlining chapter six, you know, four or five weeks later or whatever it is. So yeah, that, that worked for me. Is that why you find it so valuable to take those big breaks in between chunks of writing? Or is it just the quietness of I need to know that I've got three days of quiet.

I need to know. And, and I, I, I, I, I think I'm so weird, but perhaps there are people listening and maybe specifically those who are juggling so many different hats right now that when I know that I've got that three days coming up, it's almost like I can rest in my other jobs. I can say, oh, I'm here. I know I've got that three days coming up. And I work like crazy. In the days leading up to them leaving. My house is spotless. They are packed, they are on their way. I've got my favorite foods, the temperature is right inside the house. If it's lovely out, the windows are open. I, I mean, I've got it set up to be my most ideal work environment. And then I just go and I'm so joyful. I'm so joyful. One of the nights I'll usually make a date with a friend to meet at a restaurant and I'll take a good break and, and just laugh. But for the most part, those three days, they're just, it's, it's work, work, work, work, work, work. And it's such a delight. I mean, it's my happy place. And so when I know they're coming, I've told my husband if I just know where they're scheduled throughout the year, it brings me so much joy and relief. And if I have enough of them, then I know that due date for the manuscript that will happen. I will be ready. And I usually turn in everything weeks in advance because I'm not a procrastinator, but I am a planner.

Yeah, yeah, same here. So we've mentioned Kelly a couple of times, Kelly Stewart. So the book you wrote with her, Life Creative, I read from COVID to cover and it hits on one of my all time favorite themes, right? That our creativity is a means of revealing the character of the creator God. Can you talk for a minute about why this is so important to you?

Oh my goodness. Well, as a creator, I mean I, I believe that everyone is made in the image of a very creative God. And I think that we get stuck in thinking that we know what creativity is supposed to look like. My father was an engineer for his whole career, so is my brother, so was my grandpa. I mean, I've got linear thinkers that raised me, but they're creative thinkers. I mean they, the way that they can make numbers and thoughts come together is very different than mine. But we're all made in this image of God. And then there are also people that, that reflect different facets of God. Not so much what we see as the creative, but other compassion. And that's wonderful. But for me as a child, a very young child, I was standing on the hearth of our family home and singing for anyone that would come in the house. And I knew I was going to be an actress by the time I was probably six years old. And, and it's just I've always been a creative and I've always loved Jesus. I mean, Jesus, I had a sense lived in my heart before I knew what a heart was. And so being a creative at the core and being a Jesus lover at the core, the two just somehow went hand in hand for me at a young age. So as I learned about creativity as an opportunity to bring glory to God and to shine out into the world, it just made sense. Sense to me. And I think that one of the things that I loved so much about life Creative is it debunks how creativity is supposed to look. You might have been a worship leader before having children. This is, this is a book that was written specifically for moms who were very creative before having children and feel that they've lost themselves, their passions, their pleasures, opportunities. And in the book, we talk a lot about, no, it is who you are. It's going to eek out of your life. It's going to come out in some other way. So be on the lookout for ways to enjoy your creativity and point your children to Christ in creative ways, whether it's the way you host parties and the way that you help in their classroom. And it's one of my favorite conversations to have. I think we get busy and we think that we've lost our creativity. But made in the image of a creative God, it's always there. Sometimes it might take a little more effort to find those opportunities to enjoy that in his image component, that facet.

I started exploring this idea, I don't know, five, six years ago as I was starting to think about what would become called to create. And I. It's still, to this day, boggles my mind. The first pages of scripture. God could have told us anything about Him. He could have told us that he is just, that he is loving, that he is holy, that he is omnipotent. But the thing that he wanted our attention to focus on in the beginning was that he and we as his image bearers are creative and called to fill the earth. It's why I get so frustrated with children's books about the creation account that treat day six as the end. Are you kidding me? Day six is what got past the baton and said, hey, look at this canvas.

Look at this canvas baton. I mean, I love it. He does it with create creation. And he does it with light bearing, which is so similar where he says, I'm the light of the world. And then he turns to his disciples and he says, you're the light of the world. You know, I'm the creator. You're creative. Go. You're right. It's an absolute passing the baton.

NT Wright talks a lot about this. That from the beginning of time, God has always wanted to do his work in this world through us, through people, through his image bearers. Whether it was in the Garden of Eden or now as we're working towards the Garden City, the new heavens, the new Earth, the new Jerusalem. He's called, we're called to do that work on his behalf. Wendy, you're in your bio, I loved this line. You say, quote, the goal is the gospel always. And we talk a lot within our team that we're not anything we do at Jordan Rayner and company. We don't want to just be biblically based. We want it to be gospel centric. And there's a difference in those two things. So I'm curious for you. How does the gospel, the good news of Jesus and our redeemed selves and the redemption of the world, how does that shape your ambition to pursue mastery of your craft? Are those things connected in your mind? Does the gospel fuel you to want to get better as a writer, as a communicator?

I think yes, I know, yes. I have always loved communicating. Well, I used this term, hone your craft is what God told me to do when I was 18. But he spoke to my innermost being with words that I was already using when I was 15, 16 years old and driving an hour one way to get to school in downtown LA to hone my craft as an actress, as a kid reading through all of Shakespeare, all of Aristotle's elements of drama, I mean I was really serious about my craft. I wanted to be a good storyteller before I got the call from the Lord to be his storyteller. And when he made it clear that I was going to be his storyteller, then I knew that the, the quality of the storytelling had to be even better than what I thought at first. Growing up in LA and then graduating from college and going back to LA and starting my, my acting career there, I would see all of the Christian films that were being produced and they were so, so well intentioned, let's say, but so bad.

Yeah, let's just go there. It's terrible.

I started praying very specifically for screenwriters and for producers to produce excellent quality films that brought glory to God, encouraged the church and gave opportunities to share gospel truth, Jesus as redeemer truth with the world and didn't make a mockery of the Christian faith in a very non Christian culture in Hollywood and through Hollywood into the world. And so I actually it was in that season after college working as an actress in LA that I wrote two feature length screenplays and I knew as I wrote them that they would never be produced. I knew it and I told Myself, Wendy, this is your master's program. You are getting a master's in writing, in screenwriting. And I love that it's called a master's program because that's where you should gain mastery. And I don't want to go out into the world saying, hey, let's do this story. And it is anything other than masterful if it's going to point to the master. Yeah.

And it doesn't have to. Those themes, those gospel themes don't have to be overt. We talk a lot in this podcast how just revealing truth is winsome. But it's gotta first be true to the art form.

Right?

Right. It can't make a mockery of whether it's a book or a business or film. Just because you slap a Christian label on it doesn't mean anything to outsiders.

Right.

In fact, it can mean a lot of negative things to outsiders. We gotta be pursuing mastery of the crap, honing the craft itself and finding ways to use it to tell redemptive stories and which are just true stories. Right. This is where the world is going. We know the truth and this could be a vehicle for it. So, hey, last question on craft and kind of how your faith influences your work. You're in launch mode. You're getting ready to launch this 40 day social media fast. I know from personal experience this could be a very nerve wracking time for authors. You know, is the book, you know, going to be carried at Target? How many copies are we going to sell at launch? Whatever. What are you doing right now? You're a week away from launch. What are you doing right now to remind yourself that your worth is not ultimately in your work, but in the finished work of Jesus Christ.

Right. I have a prayer that I've been praying regularly and I've been going on walks this week. I sometimes can slip into an anxious place where it actually is anxiety. And so I make sure I move my body and get some vitamin D outside because it's easy to sit down and stay in your seat all day because there are so many emails and there are so many podcasts and there's so many guest posts. Thank the Lord for these opportunities. I'm very grateful. But I must get up and I must move. And as I move, I talk to the Lord. And my prayer is a simple, I trust you, God. I trust you, God. I am yours. I told you eons ago, not eons ago, years ago. I'm your girl. You've got my yes. Just tell me what to do. So that's All I am is your girl. That's where my identity is. You've just swept me up into this story, but it's your story and I'm yours. And so what peace that affords me.

Yeah. I wrote a devotional recently where it's basically like just calling myself and everyone reading to get lost in that bigger story. Right. We are one of billions of actors that have been playing into God's grand narrative of all time. And who cares about what the part is? Who cares about what the role is and how high profile it is? We're participating in a grand narrative of time and where God's taking time to his eternal kingdom. Hey, Wendy, three questions I ask every guest at the end of these conversations. Number one, books. Which books are you recommending most or gifting most frequently to others these days?

These days?

All time. These days. All time.

Whenever I think of all time. Perhaps Hinds Feet on high places.

Yeah, that's been recommended a couple times here.

Okay. It's a wonderful, wonderful allegory. And as I meet young women who struggle with fear, that's just a balm of an allegory because of the season of life that I'm in along with my peers. Praying the Scriptures for your Teen by Jodi Burnt is a wonderful. If you've enjoyed like the Praying the scriptures style books, they have it for your children, for your adult children, but the one for your teens, that's right where I'm living right now. And so I like to give that to people who are in the same life season with me. But my favorite book that I read recently that I've gifted to so many people, like, I'll be talking with someone on the phone and say, have you read Becoming Mrs. Lewis yet? And they'll say, no. And I'm like, right now, it is my favorite book that I've read of the year.

That's. Wow. I'm really surprised to hear that because I saw that book coming. I was like, this is either going to be great or terrible. So I have not. So I don't. I don't.

Let me gift it to you.

Okay, great. I don't. I don't do fiction. And I get that it's rooted in. Yeah, it's historical fiction. All right, so I'm gonna give something to you. Not. Not a lot of people are talking about this book yet, but I think they will. Somebody finally wrote a parallel biography on C S Lewis and Dorothy Sayers, who is the great detective novelist back in Oxford in the 1950s. Back were fairly close and it's a short biography, but it's, it's really well done. It's really well done. I think it's called. I think it's called Dorothy and Jack, so I'll be sure to send you a copy.

Well, one of the things I love so much about becoming Mrs. Lewis is it's, it's. There's so much poetry in it. It's, it's so. And even the prose are poetic. I sat there with my underliner the whole time. I mean, my highlighter.

I love it. Who would you both like to hear on this podcast talking about how their faith influences their work?

You know, I was thinking and knowing that this question was coming and I should have done some, some research. I had a couple thoughts. Have you had Cal Newport?

I haven't. And so Cal and I have exchanged a couple of emails and so I, I need to ask Cal to. Come on. I don't. I don't know. Is the short answer that I suspect. I suspect he is. All right, last question. One piece of advice to leave this audience with. Again, these are Jesus lovers who, like you, are just trying to do great work at work and at home for God's glory.

Yes, of course. Well, I think the best advice I can give is what I heard God give me. Pursue Christmas, Love others, hone your craft. And I'll bring those three things together.

That's perfect. Hey, Wendy, I want to commend you and everybody in our audience for the important redemptive work you're doing every day. Thank you for reminding us of the importance of eliminating distractions to hone our craft, but more importantly, to listen to God's voice. I think that's a big part of this. And thank you for serving your readers well through the ministry of excellence. Hey, guys. The book is the 40 day social media fast. You can find it wherever books are sold. And if you want to connect with Wendy, you can do so@wendyspeak.com that's W E N D Y S P E A K E dot com. Wendy, thanks so much for joining me.

Oh, it's been my pleasure. And you know what I would love to hear, Please, some point in the future is someone say, I came across that book on Jordan Raynor's show and I used those 40 days to knock out the first draft of my manuscript.

I love it. Yes, let's do it. I'd love to hear that. I'd love to hear that. Well, thanks again, Wendy.

Thank you.

I hope you guys enjoyed that episode, especially those of you who are pursuing writing and the craft of writing, whether it's screenplays or books, whatever. Hey, if you if you enjoyed this episode of Call to Mastery, make sure you subscribe so you never miss an episode in the future. If you're already subscribed, do me a favor, take 30 seconds right now and go leave a review of the podcast on Apple Podcasts. Those reviews really help us get this show into the ears of more listeners. Guys, thank you so much for tuning in this week. I'll see you next time.

Sat.