The Past Is F*cking You | Khalil Rafati with Jorge Cruise

I have an amazing trainer for you that I want to set you up with.

I'm Jorge Cruise.

I'm a celebrity fitness trainer and New York Times bestselling author.

In 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. The thumbnail says it all for this episode. The past is fucking you. These are strong words, but they're real words because for so many of us, that's the truth. We're held hostage by sugar addictions, carb addictions, failed diets, lost marriages, memories we have that we replay over and over again, and we think we're stuck. But my guest today, Khalil Rafidi, proves that we are never stuck. From Skid Row to CEO, from heroin to healing, Khalil's journey is the most raw and inspiring story I've ever shared here. At one point in this interview, he says something so powerful, so true, that I literally got chills from head to toe. And I can tell you, it all comes down to this: mindset is everything. So whether you're over 40, over 50, or just ready to reset, this episode is for you. This is not PG. This is adult raw conversation. So please subscribe and let's get started right now. I'm just so excited to hear Khalil. I mean, It's been a minute. I think, like we were saying before the show started, I think I saw you most recently at Expo West in Anaheim. Yeah. And it was just such a treat to see you. And I have to tell you the story. I was trying to remember this when we were chatting off camera about Malibu days back in our days back. I'm back in San Diego. You're in Texas. Is that right?

Yeah. Austin, Texas.

And I think you said it better than I could have. We have different lives now, right?

Mm-hmm. Very much so.

But I can tell you, I'm so grateful that we connected in Malibu because when I moved out there, I was working, you remember, with Brooke Burke, you know, and she's a staple of Malibu. But she told me the number one place to meet was at your place at Sun Life.

And I said, what's Sun Life?

And she's like, Jorge Cruise, you don't know who Khalil is? I'm like, what? She's like, get in here. So that's where Brooke made me meet with her. That was her office, is your place, you know.

She was there every day.

Oh, every day. And she still is. And she loves you and loves everything that you've done. And I thought, well, who is this incredible man? And then I remember inside the store, inside the actual store, it says, "Love, heal, and inspire." Yes. And I feel like that's your ethos. It's kind of like this very powerful ethos. And you've gone, as you say, you've been to, I think your newest book, and I've talked about this at the opening here, But I love this here, Lessons I Learned Crawling Out of Hell, Remembering to Live. And obviously your first book, I Forgot to Die. I mean, such powerful titles. I've written many books as well, and I feel like you've gotten everyone's attention. And I thought, as much as we could talk about Malibu, we can get to that maybe. But when I met you and I understood what you did, it was just it was so empowering, you know, because for to be in a place where you were back in the day, back in your early 30s, right? And really not a health advocate, not that you were potentially being a, what would you call it? The opposite of a health addict. I read online, I didn't know this about you. I thought it was always Malibu, but I think you came to Malibu to kind of recuperate, right? From all the—

Well, I went, I grew up in Ohio. I spent the first 21 years of my life in Ohio. That's where, that's where, the, what I went through, you know, the horrific childhood that I went through and kind of the neglect and the abuse and everything that helped me to get to that hopeless state of despair. The groundwork was done in Ohio, but I left Ohio when I was 21. And I, the reason I left is because I'd already been arrested 3 times and things were not going well. And I could tell that I was going to wind up in a whole lot of trouble if I stayed. So I left Ohio and went to LA to get out of trouble. Unfortunately, when I got to LA, I didn't even realize how much trouble one could get in.

Well, LA definitely takes it to another level, right? And yes, Toledo, Ohio, right? I think I read online Toledo.

Yes.

So, take us back a little bit because a lot of my clients, you know, they're women like Brooke Burke in midlife. I have a lot of, a lot of people in midlife. And they think sometimes when you're midlife, let alone, you know, I'm 54 right now, but you were saying you were in your 30s. I think some people, you know, I have friends in their 20s that think if they don't have it all together by the end of their 20s and at 31 they're not perfect, that's too late. And I feel like what I've learned is it's never too late, right? And I think in your example, your childhood kind of gave you, I don't know, gave you the heavy weights to lift that obviously have made you so strong in today's world. And for me, I was a sugar addict, you know, I grew up in a family, without getting into too much of it here, I want to hear more of your story so you can share. But I had a family where being, coming out of the closet at 39 is what I did. And for me being a gay man, I did not know that. And being Catholic, you can only imagine how much pressure there was for me not to be a certain way. Sure. And a lot of physical trauma, a lot of emotional trauma. And my family was very much a Latin family where you had to be a certain way. And if you weren't that way, you got hurt. And for me, the only comfort I had in getting away from that— and I've learned about why dopamine is so important and how sugar raises dopamine. I mean, there are people that say sugar is more addictive than heroin. You never know, right?

I think so.

That was my drug, right? And I don't know if you ever got into sugar, but can you take us back to your childhood?

I got into it all. I mean, I don't I, when you said that, like, did you ever get into sugar? Like, I very specifically remember running out the door, going running for the bus and just grabbing a handful of gummy bears and grabbing what was left of a 2-liter Pepsi out of the refrigerator and just, you know, downing that and, you know, drinking it before I got to the bus. Right before it went away. Yeah, I mean, I was raised on sugar. I was raised on junk food. My mom felt a lot of shame and guilt for the type of childhood that I had. So, she would let me do whatever. I mean, I—

Captain Crunch cereal too? That was my favorite.

Every day.

Of choice.

Do you remember Captain Crunch? Captain Crunch, of course. Yeah, yeah, Captain Crunch cereal if I was lucky. If I wasn't lucky, it was gummy bears or leftover pizza.

Wow.

Wow. And yeah, and Pepsi and, and whatever. But a lot of, a lot of abuse. There was a lot of violence. There was a lot of neglect and unfortunately sexual abuse and unfortunately incest. And so there was a great deal. Of shame. And, you know, the great thing is, and the reason that I can smile today is because, Jorge, I've, I've spoken about it so much. And I've dealt with all of it in so many different ways. There was— there's been so many different modalities of healing. That stuff doesn't have power over me anymore. And I will never forget being in 12-step programs.

Yeah.

And talking about, oh, I was molested, and, you know, my father beat me, and my dad beat my mom, and, you know, and like going on and on. And my sponsor said, you know, what's your part in it? And I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about? What's my part in it? I was fucking molested. I was beaten. I was told that I was a piece of shit, whatever. And he goes, How old are you? Like, I'm 33, Robbie, you know, I'm 33. He goes, right. He goes, is that stuff going on right now?

Ooh.

I said no. And he goes, so could your part be that you're still hanging on to that? And you're allowing that to dictate how you feel today?

Whoa, I got goosebumps. Like, I'm like, I got chills everywhere right now.

It was a very pivotal moment for me because all I did was talk about how bad my childhood was. All I did was talk about how I was abandoned. All I did was talk about my immigrant parents and how, you know, I didn't— I'm a high school dropout. I'm a convicted felon. Like, I had all these marks against me. People made fun of me. People called me horrible, unspeakable names. If I were to repeat some of the names, I'm— my mother's from Poland. My father's from Palestine. So, and this was the '70s and this was rural Ohio. The things that people called me, you can't even say out loud anymore. You would be canceled. But I mean, it was, it was, it was horrible. And there was so much shame there. And also, you know, it's not, it's not just that, like, I, for whatever reason, did not, I was not very talented. Or good at anything. Like, in other words, I was terrible at sports, which was really like a mark against you if you were a boy growing up in the '70s or the '80s. Yeah, I was really, I couldn't catch. I mean, I didn't have a dad to teach me how to catch. So, I mean, I had a dad, but he definitely did not teach me how to catch.

It was an absent dad.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, yeah. So, I wasn't good at sports. I wasn't good at school. I wasn't really good at anything. And I had a weird name, weird parents. I was carrying around all the shame of the abuse and the neglect. And I was acting out, which then everything sort of became like a self-fulfilling prophecy. So I was just a hot fucking mess. I was really a mess. I was constantly called like an instigator. And I was always like the class clown. And I never did homework. So, I was just really a mess. So, when you say, "Did you go to sugar?" It wasn't just sugar, it was I played video games for hours addictively. I ate sugar compulsively. I would eat bags of gummy bears. I would drink entire 2-liter bottles of soda of Coca-Cola or Faygo. We had Faygo back in Ohio in the '70s. I lived on pizza, I lived on Taco Bell, shoplifting in, you know, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12. And then, and masturbating, I mean, everything compulsively, addictively, anything that I could find where I didn't have to feel me, where I didn't have to feel me. Of course, I did.

To numb.

Yeah, numb. And, um, so there was a lot of that going on. Um, I, uh, yeah, it was horrible. And it got progressive. So, you know, in, in LA, like, there was a honeymoon period. There was definitely a honeymoon period.

I mean, I definitely went from Ohio to California and you were in your 20s, early.

Yeah, and I got my SAG card. I was in a rock and roll band.

Okay, out of here.

Yeah, I was dating.

What, an instrument or vocal?

Sang, sang.

Oh, you're kidding. Hey.

Yeah, I was, I was singing in a band. There was lots of, you know, partying going on and there was some—

Where the partying started kind of the, the, the more beyond Captain Crunch, we'll say.

Well, you know, when I was a little kid, when I was a little kid, I would drink to blackout at 12 years old. I was a blackout drinker by the time I was 12 years old.

You mean like Like alcohol?

Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

At 12?

Oh God. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Wow.

Wow. Well, I mean, I was drinking earlier than that. I had a beer can collection and I hung out with the older boys in the neighborhood and a lot of the, like, I had Billy Beer. No one's going to get that reference, but like I had cases of Billy Beer. I had all kinds of beer that was unopened. So me and my older friends figured out like, hey, we can crack these things open and drink them and feel all fuzzy and weird. And I was huffing nail polish, sniffing glue, anything to not feel myself. Yeah, pills were in my teens. Weed, I mean, I first smoked weed like with the older kids in the neighborhood when I was like 8, 9, 10 years old. But the first time I got properly fucking stoned, like super high, Yeah, I was, I was 12. I was at a party, high school party, lied about my age, was running around with all these. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh, I, I remember it like it was yesterday. And I'll tell you, I'll tell you how I remember it. Yeah.

Yeah.

It's because I was with the newsman's daughter, Oris Tabner. Read the news every night in Toledo, Ohio. And I was with Amy Tabner, Oris Tabner's celebrity sort of. And I lied to her and I told her that I was a sophomore and I told her that I was 15.

Wow.

And she was 17. And we were smoking weed together and hooking up, as they call it these days. Yes. I just, I remember thinking like, wow, I've arrived. I'm with Oris.

I made it. I'm out. Yeah. Yes. Yes.

So yeah, I started at 12.

You were 12?

Yeah, I started having— yeah, intercourse. Started having intercourse at 12.

Um, wow, like that's a mindset that's very mature, I would think, right? I mean, to some degree, did even— yeah, right.

Or just fucking damn desperate.

Yeah, that too. Okay.

Yeah, damaged and desperate.

So, but that band in that time frame, or is that when you got to the band and then you came to California?

Um, came to California, and that's when— got— yeah, started acting, got my SAG card, started making music, you know, started little businesses here and there, waiting tables, a typical, like, whatever you have to do to make ends meet, kind of like every other idiot from the Midwest that comes to LA to try to become famous. I was doing that at an accelerated pace because I was living in Malibu, and I was also dealing drugs at the same time. So yeah, it was like what normal people do, you know, they, they wait tables and they go to auditions. I accelerated that greatly by moving to Malibu, selling drugs, and just speeding that whole process up.

Holy smokes. Wow.

Yeah. So, um, yeah, I was in a couple commercials. I don't know, wrote some pretty, pretty good music, dated some very interesting people, but the drugs kept getting heavier and heavier and heavier. And, um, my desire to seek oblivion superseded my desire for fortune and fame.

Yeah.

And that, and that's ultimately what happened is I just, at a certain point, I just stopped paying my rent, stopped paying my bills.

Wow.

Was smoking heroin all day, every day, was smoking crack all day, every day.

People that don't know the hard drugs, heroin is pretty much at the top of the food chain, right? It's in the strength right? Yeah. And maybe like meth and then cocaine, and then you go down the, the, the ways. But yeah, that was the highest. That's some of the strongest stuff out there, right?

The honeymoon period when I was going to raves and making music and having fun and dating models, it was ecstasy and, you know, GHB and ketamine and all that stuff. But okay, when it, when it got darker was the heavier stuff. Yeah, shooting, shooting coke, smoking crack, shooting heroin. Like, it just It got, it got very, very, very dark, very, very, very quickly. And what ultimately ended up happening was I lost everything. I wound up on the streets and, and I lost my fucking mind. I lost my mind. Wow.

And this was all while you were in Malibu?

Yeah. Well, I left Malibu and migrated downtown LA to Skid Row. Wow.

Seriously.

And that is Skid Row.

That is Skid Row to this day, right? Yeah.

Yeah, I used to go down there back when I was in a band. I would go down there in the middle of the night to score, you know, crack and heroin. And it was really like, ooh, wow, this is exciting. This is cool. Yeah, not really. Because eventually, if you continue to seek that, like, if you, if you continue to go towards the darkness, eventually, your life just becomes darkness.

Oh, yeah.

Per— you know, Permanent Midnight was a, was a book written about a heroin addict who kind of had a similar path that I did. Um, Permanent Midnight, like, you're— it's always— you're in the darkness. Like, it's, it's— or Less Than Zero, like, you're, you're not even like here, you're like below zero. Like, there was a lot of these guys that wrote, wrote these incredible books about the experience. So very sad, very tragic. Very gross. I mean, I, when I, when I finally surrendered, because I physically couldn't go on anymore, I was 109 pounds. I had scabies, I had ringworm. I had chunks missing from my face. You can see here, my nose.

Wow.

Scars all over me, scabs all over. I mean, I was a fucking mess. And it was a nightmare. But I will tell you, when I surrendered and I asked for help, I called a guy named Bob Forrest. Bob Forrest contacted a charity called Musician's Assistance Program, MAPS. And they put me into sort of the last house on the block type of rehab. Yeah. And in that rehab, with nothing, with no, you know, no resources, with no— nobody to enable me, nobody to bail me out, nobody to help me. I crumbled. I finally bottomed out. And because I didn't have the drugs to anesthetize myself, I could feel the full gravity and weight of the the fucking mess that I had made of my life. I bottomed out and I got on my knees because when I was a little kid at St. Patrick's of Heatherdowns, they taught us to genuflect and, you know, get on your knees and whatever. I got on my knees because like I was taught that's how you talk to God. So I got on my knees.

Me too.

And, and I said, I said, God, please, God, please, please, please, please. I was crying. God, please take this hell away from me. Please, God, take this hell away from me. And there was something there. I can't quite articulate it, but there was like a lifting of some of that heaviness. There was like a lifting, and it was a profound lifting because I was crying out to God with every cell of my being. I was crying out with every cell of my being. This wasn't like when I was, you know, like before, like, oh, please let me get out of this. And then I'm going to do good. And I'm not going to whatever. No, this was like every cell of my being crying out to God for help. And, and I felt the presence of God. Now, the cravings didn't go away. The withdrawal certainly didn't go away. So it wasn't like a miracle in that sense. But it was a miracle that I felt the power and grace of our creator. I felt, I felt it so strongly and I just kind of like I grabbed on and I often think about if you've seen like the cowboy movies where they're in the wilderness and they're going to rub the two sticks together and they're trying to make a fire and they get the little flint and they, and they go and they get that spark and right. Well, me crying out to God like that, that little spark created that little flame, right?

Yeah.

I never let go of that. I never took that for granted. I was so desperate. I was so scared and I had nothing else to fall back on that I focused on that. So, I blew on that flame and I put more brush on that flame and then I got some sticks and I put that on that flame and I'm speaking metaphorically, obviously. My point is, I felt the power and the grace of God in such a profound way that I was like, oh, shit, man, this is real. I always had this sense that there was God. I just always felt like God didn't like me. I always felt like God had forsaken me. I always felt like God wasn't there for me. God was always there for me. God was always there for me. I just needed to ask for help.. And I did. So, I asked for help. And the one thing that frustrates me about the book that I wrote, I Forgot to Die, which became a bestseller, the one thing that frustrates me is like people were like, "Oh, so you stopped shooting heroin and smoking crack and then you just moved to Malibu and you became a millionaire." Like, no. That's why I wrote the second book, Remembering to Live. I had to put in there from that flame, from that fanning, from the fire, which eventually became the bonfire, which eventually became the forest fire, which eventually became the light that I live in. The light. Sun. Life.

Ooh, beautiful. Sun.

Life.

And for those who may not know, that's the name of your—

Brand. Yes. Living in the Light. Seeking the light, staying in the light. Yes. So, so when I, when I went through the 12 steps and when they eventually put me into a halfway house, and then after the halfway house, some biker, like biker, not bicyclist, but like biker, like let me crash at his house up at the top of Topanga. I just, I continued to fan that flame and to seek that light and to never take that grace of God for granted. And I'll tell you why, Jorge. At that time, I was fairly convinced that I was— that I had AIDS. And the reason I was convinced that I had AIDS was because I had shared needles a lot, a lot. But I had shared needles specifically with somebody who for sure had AIDS and hepatitis C. So I was really at that time just kind of like, God, you know, for sure I'm going to stay clean and sober, but like please, I don't want to die. Like, I don't want to die. Like, please, you know, can you just like heal me? Literally. Yeah, yeah. So it wasn't until, God, I think 8 months clean and sober.

Yeah.

When I was driving around with this guy who I didn't particularly care for, and I don't even know what— I think we're going to like get cigarettes. And he was like, he's like, You clean? I'm like, what the fuck do you mean? Yeah, of course I'm clean. He goes, no, no, no, you got anything? Oh, what do you mean got anything? He goes, Hep C, HIV? I'm like, no. He goes, you got tested? I lied. I go, yeah. And he goes, cool. And then he takes a right and I'm like, what are you doing? He goes, oh, let's go. Let's go get tested again. You got to get tested every 6 months. I'm like, I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about? He turned into Tarzana Treatment Center. We were in the Valley and literally, and they had free testing, right?

Your first?

Yeah, they had free testing. And so I went and I—

dying to know the results, like not, like not wanting to know, right?

Well, I wanted to have a definitive answer. I assumed that I did, that I had hepatitis C and HIV because the last guy that I shared needles with did. So, I did the test, but back then in the old-timey days, you had to wait a week.

Yes, yes.

Did not get a whole lot of sleep that week. Oh, I think I wrote about that in my book about the whole experience.

And that book is called I Forgot to Die. I mean, we got to give that a shout-out because that was the book I saw originally. And what a title. And then, the picture you have on the COVID is you literally at what point?

109 pounds, scabs on my face, sores on my mouth. Yeah. Yeah, that's deep.

And so the results came back and it was a blessing, right?

The results came back and I fell on the floor. Uh, yeah, I couldn't believe it. I mean, that was a miracle that I— I remember him handing me the needles and me thinking like, you dumbass, you're really gonna do this. You're really gonna, you know, and yeah, yeah. So it was a miracle. So at that point, I was like, okay, you gotta, you gotta do something with your life now. Like, like, like, God is real, God is powerful, and you, you— I made a, I made a vow, I made a pact with God that I was gonna, I was gonna make a difference in this world, and I was gonna, you know, do my best to do God's will.

Amen.

And, um, yeah, that set me on the journey, man. That set me on the journey. And if, you know, if people are interested in how Did I go from, you know, being penniless and broke to being a multimillionaire? I would suggest just reading those books because it's too much to share.

But I— of course, both books. Absolutely. Yeah.

But, but, you know, I definitely— there's a lot of dog walking. There was a lot of dog washing. There was a lot of car washing. I cleaned people's apartments. There was this amazing couple, Chris and Glenn, this gay couple that when I went to a 12-step meeting early on, I raised my hand and I said, I need help. I can't afford to feed myself and I need help. And Chris and Glenn were the first people to come up to me and say, you can come clean our apartment. They had a townhouse. They said, you can come clean our townhouse. They paid me incredibly well. They were so sweet. I wonder where they are now. But Chris and Glenn, my God. Yeah. Shout out to Chris. Yeah. Lou Gossett Jr., God rest his soul. He came up to me at a dog grooming place, which was the only place I could get a job because I looked so were fucking horrible at the time, right? And he came up to me and he said, how you doing, young man? And I'm like, I'm okay. And he's like, just okay? And I'm like, yeah, man, I'm sleeping at my sponsor's house and I'm washing fucking dogs, so yeah, I'm just okay.

And he goes, being honest there, yeah, yeah, you gotta—

you got a pen and a piece of paper? I said, yeah. He goes, go get it. And I said, okay. He's really tall, really imposing man, very black, very tall.

Yeah.

And He wrote down his number and his address and he said, come to my house tomorrow morning, 8 AM. I got some work for you. I'm going to help you out. And I said, yes, sir. So Lou Gossett Jr., God rest his soul, uh, went to his house the next morning. He introduced me to his two dogs, Kingfish and Tar Heel. He let me walk them every day and feed them, gave me $500 a month $500 was like, like, oh my God, oh my God, I'm rich. So yeah, I'm washing dogs at Sherman's. I'm walking dogs for Lou Gossett Jr. Cindy Landon, who was Michael Landon's widow, saw me walking the dogs, introduced herself. I told her I'm, you know, kind of new in the area. I'm in recovery. I'm walking dogs. I'm looking for work. She allowed me to run errands for her. I mean, just on and on, like Here's my point, Jorge.

Yeah.

Because sometimes I feel guilty. Sometimes I have survivor's guilt. Sometimes I look around and go, I was at my— I'm building a house. I'm building my dream home right now. It's almost finished on the lake here in Austin, on Lake Austin. And I was there today and I'm looking out and I'm like, is this really my life? Like, did this really happen? I'm building this amazing home. And I always got to remember the power and grace of God is available for everyone. Yeah. A lot of people feel that they don't deserve it. Okay. I was so desperate. I didn't give a fuck. I asked for it anyway. I asked for the power and power and love and grace of God because I was so desperate. So a lot of people think they don't deserve it. They deserve it. Everybody deserves the love and grace of God. Everybody.

I love that.

No matter what.

And then this with you, just so you can see where we're connected, because when I met you in Malibu, I was, uh, didn't know this, but I was going— I was in my second marriage, and you may have met my partner Sam at the time. Yeah. And he and I ended up getting divorced, unfortunately, about almost 4 years ago. And I went into a little bit of a dark place. And I was raised Catholic, but you can imagine, uh, being kind of abused as a kid for having feminine kind of traits. I mean, I would hold a little bottle of water and my grandma saw my little pinky out, you know what that meant, right?

Right.

And tú no eres maricón is what she would tell me in Spanish, which means you're not a fag, you know, in English. And I was like, what is that? And she did it, I think now looking back, kind of like what that, was it your sponsor that said about you kind of taking what happened to you as a kid, but then making it last up until, how old were you, right?

Oh God, I was in my early to mid-30s and still allowing that to dictate my life.

Yeah. Being us, being victims forever is our problem, not the problem from back then. And so, for me, about 4, almost 5 years ago now, I was blessed to get into a 12-step program too because when I lost that marriage, my father had passed, I had lost some connections with some other family members. And as many books as I've written, It was COVID, right around COVID time. Wow. And publishers in New York were not really active, and it was just a tough time. I have two adult sons now. Yeah. And one of them and I stopped talking, and that— I just was— I had the violin out. I was definitely playing it hard, you know. Wow. And I started to drink more than I should have. And of course, didn't touch sugar because I knew that was bad for me. But yeah, I said a little alcohol. I've never really drank my whole life. And then I got to the point where I didn't want to be here, you know. And for me, luckily, 12-step program as well helped me kind of, I mean, the first time I ever heard the Serenity Prayer, you know? Yeah. Serenity, to accept the things I cannot change.

Yeah. So good.

Right.

The courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.

Amen. Right. I mean, I was like, what is this thing? It's like, and I get it now. It's like stoicism. It's just intelligence. This wisdom that's magic. And it isn't about necessarily a Buddha or Jesus, but it's about a power greater than us, right? Whatever that is for us. Yeah. Really very much your story in the last 5 years. And I know we haven't spoken in a while at this level, but I just want you to know what you're saying, a lot of my followers will understand because a lot of them have been to even Overeaters Anonymous, which is a 12-step program. For overeating, mainly sugar and carbs, you know. And I think addiction is this thing, whether it's done with Cap'n Crunch cereal or heroin, right, where we, we think it's our fault. And I think what you shared about what your— was it your sponsor that said, why are you holding on to this? Well, yeah, one last time, because that sounds like it was— I mean, I got chills when you said it, you know.

Yeah, yeah. It's, it's, it's my, my, my part of— because, you know, like, with my brother, my brother was 8 years older than me. He was my half-brother. He was sexually confused. Ultimately, I believe he's gay.

I don't know.

We don't talk. We don't have— we're not in any contact. You know, my brother fondling me, molesting me, whatever. Like, I, I was like, I, I can make peace with that. Like, it's fucking gross and it's wrong and he shouldn't have done that to me, but I get it, right? Like, I, I understand he's confused. I'm like, I, I understood the motivation. My swim coach? No. My swim coach was in his late 30s. He was married. He had two kids. And for him to do that to me and to specifically take me camping and take me out in the woods where nobody could hear me or save me or whatever, that shit, I was like, no, fuck that. I'm not going to forgive that. I was so angry. I'm not anymore.

No, you had a resentment though.

And logically, I, I, yeah, hatred. I mean, I want to kill that motherfucker. I want to kill him. Wow.

But how did you let that go, by the way, Khalil, for anyone out there that has—

I'm going to get to that in a second.

Please.

So my part in that was, was it still happening? My sponsor's like, is he still— is he still touching you? And I'm like, no. What the fuck? I'm like, no, Robbie. And he goes, what would you do if someone tried to, like, touch you like that or do what he did to you? And I said, I beat the shit out of them. He goes, right. So no one's touching you. I'm like, yeah. He goes, so why are you living like someone's touching you? Why are you carrying that shame? Why are you carrying that anger? You're letting that rent space in your head for free. You got to let it go. You got to let it go. So I had to learn to let it go. I had not, not for him, fuck him. He obviously had some shit, you know, wrong with him. So when at 17 years after 100% abstinence from drugs and alcohol, at 17 years, I did a plant medicine journey. And in that plant medicine ceremony with the eye mask and the headphones and the facilitator, whatever.

Yes.

I, I went after him. I went after him and I found him. Yeah. And it was so heavy. And, and he was an old man. He was an old man. Well, I mean, think about it. I'm fucking 55. This dude was 38. I was, you know, 11, I think, when he did what he did to me. Yeah. So in this journey, here's this old man, this fucking old man sitting in front of me. And I'm like, what the fuck? Like, what the fuck were you thinking? Why would you do that to a little boy? Why the fuck would you do that? You know, I was so angry. And he's crying and he's crying and he's crying and he's like, kind of like pointed down to his root chakra. And he's like, I'm stuck. I'm stuck. He was like stuck in his root chakra. And, and, and by the way, a lot of men are stuck in their root chakra, people that are addicted to pornography, people that are sex addicts, people that, you know, whatever. But he was saying, and he said, I'm not like you. You're here. He's showing me here. And I'm, you know, I'm fucking, I'm on a plant medicine. Yeah, high as a fucking kite. So I'm seeing shit and like, and so we're in this thing and like my chakras, my crown chakra, my throat chakra, my heart chakra, they're all like lit up. And he's like, I'm not like you, you're here, I'm stuck. And he's crying at this old man. And, and Jorge, I'll tell you, I, I found sympathy. I didn't find empathy, but I found sympathy. Yes, found sympathy for him. And I was like, fuck, man, this dude's gonna die like that. He's gonna die like that. I'm not gonna die like that. No one's touching me anymore. No one's making me feel dirty anymore. My old man is not in this room telling me that I'm a bum and I'm a piece of shit and I'm just like my mother. That shit happened so fucking long ago. It doesn't have any hold on me. When my father passed, he passed last year.

Wow.

When my father passed, I didn't shed a tear. Wow. I didn't shed a tear. When my fucking fish died in my fish tank over there, that like, I don't know, I'm not even like really that into fish, but like one of the angelfish was like dying at the bottom of the tank. And I put my hand and the fish like flew, like, like swam up to my hand and kept like doing that and then went back down and like literally died. I fucking bawled my eyes out. Oh yeah, so I'm, I'm an emotional, yeah, I'm an emotional being. But when my father, when my father passed, I was like, thank God, thank God.

You literally just let it go.

Yeah, thank God he's no longer in pain. Thank God. When my mom passed, I lost my shit. My mom wasn't a great mom. She didn't protect me. It's okay. My mom did the best that she did. When my mom passed, I lost my shit. There was, there was years of grieving. My mom died during, during COVID um, 2000, uh, 2021. My mom died like 2021. So I lost both my parents like in the last few years. Um, but listen, let's, let's get to the good stuff because that's—

there we go. Yeah, remembering to live, right?

Yeah, we need hope. People need to understand no matter what you've been through, no matter what you've been through, you can let it go. You can, you can make peace with it. You can, you can not let it rent space in your head. You can pray and ask God to give you the power to let it go. If you can't, you can seek professional help. You can read a book like Loving What Is by Byron Katie, which was a profound—

she's powerful.

Paradigm shift for me. No, I can't give medical advice, but I will tell you, I have done— I'm just sharing my experience. I've done 3 plant medicine ceremonies in the last 5 years, maybe 6 now. I'll probably do one again if questions arise or whatever.

Sure, they're powerful.

I waited until I was 17 years completely abstinent from drugs and alcohol. I've also done ketamine-assisted therapy, which I've— for me, I found incredibly helpful for me. Again, I'm not giving medical advice. I'm just sharing what, what, you know, what works for me. And I will also share, after going to meetings every day pretty much religiously for about 10 years, because AA did become my religion for about a decade, Sure. I started going much less frequently, and at about 15 years, I just— it just wasn't serving me, and I wasn't serving others anymore. I know a lot of people that have 20 years, 30 years, 40 years at Sponsorship to Rise, and they're doing great. They love it. For me, I needed to get into other modalities of healing and other means of being of service to people. I'm not that guy that you're going to call at 3 in the morning because you feel like taking drugs. I'm not going to answer my phone. I just know myself. I turn my phone off. I wasn't like a— I sponsored some people, but I wasn't like somebody that was— I wasn't a good 12-stepper. I had to find other ways where I could be philanthropic and where I could be of service. And I found other ways to serve. And The point in telling everybody all of this, if you can, triage would be rehab, right? If you're, if you're, if your problem is serious enough that you need to go to rehab, whatever, for whatever that is, gambling, drug, sex addiction, substance abuse, whatever, and then go to a halfway house, a sober living, transitional living, whatever, whatever you want to call it. If you continue to ask God for help, and you could— and if you're willing to do the footwork, that's what I wanted to get to. I was willing to do the footwork, okay? I was willing to do the footwork. And by the way, the footwork doesn't mean, oh well, I got up every day and I went to work at the rehab. Remember something, I got up in the morning and I went to Lou's house before the rehab.

Yeah.

And I walked to those dogs and I fed those dogs. And then I went to Pietra's house and I cleaned up all the dog shit from her 7 dogs and, you know, yeah, yeah. And then I went to the rehab, and then, you know, when I was at the rehab, I would take the clients to a meeting, and then when I got off work at the rehab, I would then go to a meeting on my own. So I had my own recovery. But sometimes the footwork was, you know what, I'm going to start my own business, and I'm going to believe that that power and grace of our living, loving Father is going to go with me and God is going to hold my hand. So sometimes doing the footwork means taking big risks and sometimes it means failing. Sometimes it means shit doesn't work out and then getting up and trying something else again. I held on to that flame. I held on to that light and I continued to do the footwork over and over and over again. And here's what I found. Here's my experience, strength, and hope.

Please. Yeah. What—

whatever anybody wants to do, if you're— if your heart is in the right place and you really feel called, if you put one foot in front of the other, if you stop putting bad things into your body and you start putting good things into your body, if you stop looking at bad stuff and— and like the news and— and negativity, if you stop slandering, if you stop gossiping, if you stop engaging in constricting activities, because those are all constricting. Self-righteous indignation, all this outrage porn that's going on right now, all this judgment, all this whatever political side you're on. Like if you're, you know, one of those people that is celebrating the death of, you know, Charlie Kirk, I think is his name, right? Who I disagree with on many things. But if you're celebrating that death, You got a lot of work to do. Yeah, you got a lot of work to do. The power and grace that I'm talking about may not actually be available for you if you're celebrating that death. That was a father.

Yeah.

And there's two children that aren't going to have a father, and there's a wife that's not going to have a husband, and that man was assassinated. So no matter what type of the political type of person you are, that is a great tragedy in our, in our country's history. But setting that aside, if you're, if you're a person that's a decent person and you seek the power and grace of God and you're willing to do the footwork, you have to look at an example like me. If a dummy like me— and that's not feigned humility— I can't spell, I can't type. I don't really have any skills. I was never really good at anything. I got fired from every job I ever had. If a dummy like me can build what will be a multibillion-dollar global empire, which is what I am building by the power and grace of God, if I can do that, you can do anything. You can do anything. That, that's my message. And, and, you know, we're at 21 stores. We're on a run rate to do about $30 million this year in sales. We just signed our first licensing deal in Vegas with MGM. I'm going tomorrow to Saturday. We're going to celebrate at Aria. We have our first licensing deal at Aria. Fabulous. It's pretty incredible. Kind of like with you, with your intellectual property of your books that continue to give you mailbox money. Yeah, well, I now have created a brand that I am licensing out now. So, so they spend the money. They do the work, they do the heavy lifting, they take the risk.

Yeah.

I take a percentage of the revenue.

Get a fee. Yeah, that's fabulous. Well, you've worked so hard to create— well, tell us that. Maybe we can transition here in a minute if you think it's right. But SunLife really is a brand that is you in essence, but also is going to become and has become— because when I was introduced to SunLife in Malibu with Brooke, Brooke Burke, back in the day, you know, now I don't want to say 8 years ago, but almost, I was like, wow, it's a fancy Jamba Juice, you know, something like that. And it's got the million dollar shake. And then there's a billion dollar shake. And everyone is there. Every celebrity in LA was at this spot. I was like, this is not just a Jamba Juice.

What is?

And then you look at the curation of the products.

The books.

The education there. The gorgeous crystals and stones you have there, kind of like what you have on your, your necklace there. Show everyone, if you don't mind sharing a little bit. I think you showed that to me at Expo West. And yes, is how many thousands of years old, right? Oh, it— yeah, it's, it's, uh, about it, if that's not too much, because you curate these beautiful modalities. And what— tell us what that is.

Yeah, bring a little rose water with 24-karat gold. I love it.

What, what, what's the name of that one?

That is Leaven Rose. You can get on Amazon. It's 24-karat gold and rosewater. I have these bottles everywhere. I have them in my car. I have them on my table. I spray myself with rosewater. Probably, I don't know how many times a day. Too many.

That's fabulous. Yeah.

It's just, it's just a way of honoring myself. Because, you know, Jorge, when I used to smoke cigarettes, every time I smoked, I took a drag off a cigarette, I was telling myself that I hated myself. Every time. I hate no more smoking.

You don't even smoke marijuana, gummies, nothing?

No, no. Um, if I'm really struggling with sleep, sometimes I will use a full spectrum CBD, but that's rare. That's, you know, maybe a couple times a month. But no, definitely not. I smoked for 20 years. I stopped smoking 18 years ago. I couldn't even imagine smoking today.

Yeah.

Um, but this is just a way of honoring myself. Beautiful. It's a great Taking supplements throughout the day. I love citrine. I'm surrounded by citrine.

How do you have it there?

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm obsessed.

And what is that stone? Tell us that stone that is.

It's citrine.

This is— Tell them what kind of energy it has for them.

Abundance and prosperity. Wow. I'm like the cat lady of crystals. I'm going to embarrass myself now. But I always have—

You have some crystals that are human size, right? They're tall. I do. Yeah.

I've got massive crystals all over my house.

Yeah.

It's fun stuff. None of it— these are toys. None of it takes the place of God. God is God. I don't worship crystals. I don't worship elephants and statues. There's a massive Buddha in my yard, a female Buddha. There's a dancing giant 8-foot dancing Shiva. My man cave out there. Those are all just reminders that God is, God is, right? But I don't pray to those statues. I pray to God.

Amen.

No pagan idolatry in this house.

No. And that's what I was going to say was I think SunLife is this brand that is you, but in essence, it's an experience. It's not so much, you know, what I thought it was originally because you have these curated items, products, and then these gorgeous crystals. Crystals and all that.

What—

how do you explain SunLife into others? Like, you're— this beautiful environment that now is even in Las Vegas, New York, everywhere, right?

Yeah, every— I mean, it's all over the country. Um, we, we are in the process of signing our first international deal in South Africa. We're opening in Cape Town, um, uh, Durban and Johannesburg, and that's a licensing deal as well. Um, next will be the Middle East. It's growing exponentially and it's very exciting. But, um, I don't run it, so I'm not taking any credit for that. The whole company is run by women and one gay man. So, um, I, I am technically CEO, but I mean, let's be honest, I can't even fucking spell CEO. But the whole, the whole company is run by women and one amazing gay man. And that just sort of happened. I don't know how it happened. There was a lot of men that worked at SunLife over the last 14 years. Women are just fucking awesome.

They are.

Yeah. And, like, I always think about, like, the image of the woman, like, pushing the stroller, holding the— cradling the phone with her shoulder, giving directions to somebody on the phone, scanning with her peripheral vision to make sure that the child in the thing is safe, you know, walking, like, holding the leash of the dog. Like, I can't fucking chew and chew gum and walk, right? But a woman can do all of those things. Women have this amazing ability to— I bought this house when I moved here. I wrote a check for it. It was one of the most epic experiences of my life. I didn't get a mortgage. I literally wrote a check. That's what happens when you leave Malibu and you come to a small town like Austin.

But that's right.

I'm, as a man, I'm capable of creating I'm sorry, I'm capable of buying a house, but it's a woman that turns that house into a home.

Oh, I love that.

And that power, and also a gay man will turn a house—

Shout out to our women and to our gay men.

100%. It will turn a house into a home.

I agree.

And so these women took my crazy ideas and eventually they rose to the top and they, and they took over. And it got to the point where they were kind of like, you know, hey, listen, we're going to do a Zoom with you a couple of times a month and you can give your pep talks, but like, got to step aside. We got this.

We got this. Yeah.

And I did. And so I give them full autonomy. They, they, they, they do what they want. They do a much, much, much better job than I ever did. And, um, it's incredible, but it just goes to show you that like somebody that like, like literally I have no fucking talent. I have no skills. I have no education. I just got my high school diploma last year. And the only reason I got my high school diploma is because the school that kicked me out, the private Jesuit school that kicked me out, wanted me to come give a talk on entrepreneurialism to the student body. And they wanted to know what my fee was. And I said, my fee is a fucking diploma. And the guy laughed.

Bingo.

And I'm like, no, I'm serious. And he goes, you don't have a high school diploma? I'm like, I thought you said you read my book. He goes, oh, well, I'm like, dude, it's fine. I will come speak to the student body. I will pay for my own travel. I will even pay for my own accommodations. I will waive my $20,000 fee, but you are going to hand me a high school diploma. And he goes, done. And so, but without a high school diploma, as a convicted felon, as a first generation— my parents were immigrants, first generation brown man. And I am a brown man. I am not the color of your shirt. I am the color of you. We are brown men.

Yes.

Yes. So, well, the reason I'm saying that is because I am often confused as some sort of white privileged, you're a white guy, blah, blah, blah.

It's like Malibu of all places.

Yeah, shut the fuck up.

Just Toledo, Ohio.

Yeah, don't try to put me in a box because you can't, right?

Yeah.

Um, so anything is possible. Anything is possible. So I, I was talking to my CFO earlier. And I'm like, don't you think it's funny that all these people are coming to us now that want to buy a piece of the company? Don't they understand that I have no fucking idea what I'm doing? I'm making all of this up. I'm just making it up. And Ewan, my little buddy, who I hope you get to meet, who is one of my corporate people.

I would love that.

It's probably a major HR violation that I'm calling him a gay man, but I don't give a fuck. The point is, I give him complete autonomy to do whatever he wants. And so, there's this brand that wanted to do this collaboration with us, and he decided on his own volition that he would take our matcha, because I went to Japan and I found the best matcha on the planet. It is literally the best matcha on the planet.

No kidding.

Yeah, we sell it. We— Oh, yeah? Yeah. But anyway, he was like, He's like, yeah, I'm gonna make matcha cookies and cream. And I'm just like, I'm like, I'm like, what?

What?

And he's like, yeah, I'm gonna make matcha cookies and cream.

No, no.

And I kept my mouth shut. I just kept my mouth shut. I'm like, that is going to be an unmitigated disaster. Those don't match up. Like, matcha and cookies, like, it doesn't make any fucking sense.

You let them roll. You let them roll.

Jorge, please. What? I will, I will pay. I will send a car for you. Please, before it disappears, yes, go to SunLife Organics.

We got one right here in Del Mar in San Diego.

Yeah, perfect. And get Ewan's creation, the Matcha Cookies and Cream. It is the best fucking smoothie you will ever taste in your life. I was shocked. I'm like, this can't be good for you. He goes, dude, relax. It's protein, it's creatine, it's almond milk. It's like, it's literally the best. Yeah, it's the best of the best. It's all organic. It's amazing. And so I, I get to, because I humbled myself before God, because I got on my knees and humbled myself before God with every cell of my being, I asked God for God's grace. And I, and I meant it and I received it. Some people think they don't deserve it. We talked about that. You do. Some people get God's grace and then they take it for granted, which we all do, right? But I try to the best of my ability not to take God's grace for granted. And, and, and, and lastly, some people get God's grace and they, and they're unwilling to do the footwork. You got to do the footwork. If you're in a marriage that is not serving you and not serving that other person, or a relationship, you got to get up and walk away. Somebody said it much smarter than me: if you're sitting at a table and they stopped serving love a long time ago, get the fuck up and walk away from that table. That's part of the footwork. Part of the footwork might be taking great risks. Part of the footwork might re— might, might be coming to the realization, like, I'm talking all this shit about Google and they're listening to us and their targeted ads, and Palantir, and fuck those guys, and they're going to create the dystopian future that we're so afraid of. Yes, but you're not going to beat them. Buy their fucking stocks and, and ride the wave.

Yeah, yeah.

I, I was telling a friend of mine who's super like hardcore liberal, and God bless her, and she's really upset about Trump, and she's really upset about Google and Palantir and all these companies that they're, they're taking over our lives. And I said to her, this is back in April when the market collapsed, I said, take every fucking penny you can afford and pile into the market right now, because the stock market in the United States of America over the last 100 years, no matter what— wars, recessions, everything that's happened on average, on average, has gone up 11% on average. Some years down, some years drastically up, but, but on average, 11%. Let compounding be your friend. Stop buying Lululemon pants and start buying Lululemon stock. That's what I told my employees 10 years ago, 12 years ago, 14 years ago. Stop buying the latest iPhone and start buying Apple stock. That's what I told those kids. Some of those kids are very, very successful today and have a shitload of money because when everyone was yelling that Bitcoin was a scam, Bitcoin was a scam. My old assistant, I ran into her recently here in Austin. She was running past and she ran over and she gave me this huge hug. She came back the next day. She's like, you are amazing. You are so awesome. I just want to tell you, you're the best. And I'm like, like, wow, you're in a good mood. And she's like, I'm in the best mood. Can you believe Bitcoin is over $100,000? And I'm like, you have Bitcoin? She goes, you're joking, right? I'm like, no, why? She goes, you don't remember? I'm like, Vivian, I deal with a lot of people.

She goes, tell me, remind me.

She goes, you fucking screamed at me and threatened me that if I didn't buy Bitcoin that you were gonna fire me. And I'm like, you bought it? She goes, yeah. I'm like, and you still have it? She goes, yeah.

Wow.

I've had like 5 people over the last few years reach out to me and tell me a similar story. I'm very passionate, if you can't tell. Yeah, well, you, you can't just sit around and complain and be a victim. No, you gotta save your money, invest your money. Stop buying shit that you don't need, trying to impress people who don't give a fuck about you anyway. It's that dream when I was in my 20s of, I'm gonna get a Rolex, I'm gonna get a Ferrari, I'm gonna get this, I'm gonna get that, and I'm gonna impress all those people over there. Those people didn't give a fuck about me. They still don't give a fuck about me. They're never gonna give a fuck about me.

So true, so true. That's so— it's such a powerful way to think, and it really by letting go of all what people care about us, right? We just have this freedom that lets us do, I think the best thing that I can relate to is like doing God's will. Because for me, I didn't understand even prayer back in the day until my sponsor, his name is JJ, great guy, he's in his late 70s. And he's like, I'm not really your sponsor, I'm your unofficial sponsor.

Love it. I love it.

And he's like, you know, you really can't, because you have to be able to, to do God's will. And when you ask in prayer, it's about doing it so you can help others. It's not just for yourself. It has to be done so you do it to help others. And I did not get that distinction until my 50s, you know?

Yeah.

Or right now, and 4 years ago, I was like, oh, so it's about like, hey, yeah, I want to start this project. I want to start this business, you know, to empower people. And it's about doing God's will. And I think that's what I've— I'm I'm about to write now, can you get this, my 40th book. I'll have to send you a copy. It'll be out next year. It's called the Zero Hunger Plan, and it's all about minerals and how minerals help us kind of create, you know, kind of like what Robb Wolf has talked about for years or all these companies and how important minerals are to help kind of reduce false hunger. And for me, it's been a bit of a challenge because we were about to start the project and launch it. And it's called Zero Hunger Water. It's the product I'm launching.

It's a beverage.

And, and unfortunately it got stalled, and that was a 2-year stall. And people are like, are you still going to try that? I'm like, I— it's God's will.

I'm—

I feel like I wrote all these darn books for a reason, and it brought me to minerals for some reason, you know, kind of like why, you know, sodium, magnesium, potassium. And, and, and, and I— and, and as you know, God is good, I continue to focus in on it. I mean, I'm doing some other side projects to keep the love, shall we say, the podcast.

You do it. You're doing, you're doing the footwork, you're doing the footwork. It's so—

you have to stay, you have to stay at it, and it doesn't all happen at once, right? I mean, it takes— for people out there watching to say, oh, it's not happening fast enough, I mean, it's God's timing too, right? It really is.

I get, I get people that contact me that are in their, like, in their 20s and 30s, they're like, well, you know, life has passed me by, or whatever. I started SunLife when I was 41. Wow. I wrote my first book, which became a bestseller, when I was 46. I started Malibu Beach Yoga when I was 47. I uprooted my entire life and my entire existence at 50 years old. I literally left California after 29 long years for a multitude of reasons, which I won't go into because I don't want to be divisive. But I came to Austin, Texas, because I needed to be in a place where actually, fuck it, I, I don't want to live in a world without liberals, and I don't want to live in a world without conservatives. Liberals are the gas, conservatives are the brakes.

Brakes. Yeah.

I love everyone. There you go. I wasn't finding back where I was that you could express your opinion about things without being canceled or out being screamed at or whatever. And I'm not down with that. I love everybody. I love everybody. And what would the world be like if there were no— first of all, let's just go to an obvious one. Sure. Because, you know, I consider myself leaning more right now. Right? More Republican now. But what would the world be like without gay people? What the fuck would we wear? What would we look at? What would we listen to?

What the fuck?

The world would be a terrible place without gay people. What would we do without Jewish people? Yeah. Oh my, what would we do without Black people?

Yeah. Good Lord. It would be different. The whole world would be completely— not to say boring and white, but it would be so fucking boring.

It would be so redundant. So I need my Honey Dijon's. You know Honey Dijon?

Yeah. Yeah.

Honey, honey. Like she's, she's like, I'm so inspired by her. I watch all her videos. I go see her if she's, if she's, if she's playing locally.

Yeah.

Now here's, here's the weird thing. I'm certainly not trans. Yeah. I don't understand trans. Yeah. I don't need to understand trans.

Sure, sure.

And, and by the way, it's none of my fucking business anyway.

Sure.

Now, yeah, he's— she's shared with me that she's trans. Sure. I didn't know she was trans. She came into SunLife. I'm like, oh my God. This is one hot woman. She invited me to her, her show, and she's playing Madonna, and I know, and we ended up just like clicking and bonding and whatever. Like, you know, my, my friends don't understand. I don't care if they understand. It's nobody's fucking business. I accept everybody. I don't agree with everybody. I have very, I have very strong opinions about sexuality or whatever. I experimented a lot with sexuality when I was younger. I also did a lot of gay stuff when I was using in order to get money for drugs, right? Because I'm not a violent person. Yeah. So I'm not a gay person, but, uh, you know, I'm in a heterosexual relationship. Who fucking cares? Sure.

Who cares?

And I don't care if you're in a heterosexual relationship or homosexual relationship or relationship. I care that you're a good person. When I'm— when I met you, it's interesting that you say that you suffered as a child because you were— you had gay tendencies or you were effeminate or whatever. By the way, I always know it.

I didn't know.

I always drank tea. I always drank tea. I still do. So I guess I'm a fatty too.

Oh, my grandma, she's from South America, from Colombia. Yeah, she pushed that thing in, and whatever was around, she'd give me a little reminder not to do it again, you know.

Yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's interesting because you, you are, you are one of the least seeming or acting gay people that I've ever met. I wouldn't, I wouldn't think of you as a gay man. I think of you as a man. Oh, thank you. When I met, when I met you guys, it was you and your husband. When I met you guys back in the day, I don't know, I didn't, I didn't think, and, and I didn't care.

No. And I could tell you were someone that, I mean, obviously in Malibu, people not just respected you, but really felt your, your sincerity, you know, in giving people a place. And I think an environment that was safe, you know?

Yeah.

And not just safe from, you know, like crazy people, but just a place you come in and you immediately feel the good energy, the love, the love, you know?

Well, you, I mean, yeah, you asked earlier to define it. I would say, I would say SunLife Organics is the, is the lighthouse lighthouse in the storm of life. It's a lighthouse in the storm of life. Sure, you're going to come there and you're going to get some great smoothies, you're going to get— so you're going to find some amazing products that you didn't know existed, you're going to feel the energy of the crystals and all that stuff, you're going to see famous people, um, athletes, Olympians, whatever. Like, there's all that fancy shit. Yeah, but you, you're gonna be loved and you're going to be healed and you're going to be inspired by the beautiful staff that work there, by the amazing people who run my company, by the ingredients of what we're putting in those smoothies and in those bowls. That's, that's my mission. That's my purpose. That's my passion. And so we, we've, we've lost money for 10 years. I never cared. I, I, I, I really— I never— we— I mean, we never talked about it. I never cared. First of all, I'm very industrious, so, um, I made money day trading. I made money in crypto. I got very lucky early on in crypto. Um, I made money gambling. I'm a little bit embarrassed to admit that. I don't gamble anymore, but there was a period of time in my life where I gambled very recklessly, and I won, and I won a lot. And in 2019 I paid my taxes on my winnings and it was a shitload of money in taxes. And my CFO at the time said something that sent chills up my spine. She goes, I can't— it was over $100 grand that I had to pay in taxes. So clearly I won a lot of money.

A quality problem, hopefully, right? Yeah.

Well, she goes, I'll never forget this. She goes, what if you lost? And it's just like, I got the hair on the back of my neck stood up. I was going to Next Health at the time. Do you ever go to Next Health?

No, no. Oh, I've not been. No.

Oh my God, Next Health, owned by Dr. Darshan and by Kevin Peek, two of the greatest human beings on the planet. They have this place called Next Health. There's, there's a few in LA, there's one in, uh, they're all over the place. It's, it's—

you get—

it's— you do the IVs, you do the stem cells, the exosomes, all that shit. But at that time, at that time, they were doing not the NMN. What were they doing?

NAD.

They were doing the NAD 750 milligram IV. Yeah, really intense. Like you felt a lot of like pressure in your chest while it was going in you. You had this incredible sinus pressure. Like it was a very uncomfortable experience. But I did one bag, one 750 milligram, and again, this is not medical advice, please, but I did one bag once a week. I think I did 4 weeks initially, then I went back and did it once a month for like another 3 or 4 times. Yeah. Now, this was right at the time that I paid the money on the taxes for the gambling. Not soon after that, I went to Vegas, which I go all the time. Vegas. My business partner lives there. And I went to Vegas and got something to eat, woke up in the morning, and one of my employees that I'm buddies with, Brad, he calls me, he goes, how much are you up? Because I always used to tell him.

Yeah, he knew. He knew.

Yeah.

And I'm like, come on now.

Yeah. I'm like, I'm like, oh, I didn't gamble. He's like, what do you mean you didn't gamble? I was that guy that when you got to Vegas, before I went to check in, I had my carry-on at the blackjack You were prepared. I, I didn't gamble. I didn't gamble the entire trip. Wow. It was very weird. Was it the NAD? Was it Jamie saying to me, what if you lost? Was it the fact that the business finally started to look like it was going to be financially successful? Because starting in 2020, believe it or not, even with COVID and everything that happened, we actually started to become profitable because what COVID gave us the great luxury of doing was shutting down 4 stores that were hemorrhaging cash without any repercussions.

Wow.

I never would have been able to do that if it wasn't for COVID. So COVID, as difficult it was, ultimately was a big blessing for us business-wise because we had 4 stores that were just draining us of all of our profits. Because you remember how busy Malibu was.

Oh my gosh, it was the—

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, Palo Alto, not so much. Pasadena, not so much. Scottsdale, not so much.

So you were able to— was that— was a way to do that?

I was able to tell the landlords there was— there was two terms that the lawyers, the smart people cooked up. My lawyer, Shalom Goodman, he said, you just— you just call them up and you tell them due to frustration of purpose and force majeure, you need to give them back their keys. Frustration—

and you're like, what the hell does that mean? But it worked, right?

Frustration of purpose was from a case 80 years ago that if you are not able to conduct business, which is frustration of purpose, force majeure is act of God. So with the force majeure and the frustration of purpose, I was legally indemnified that I no longer— the lease was null and void and it worked.

Amazing. Isn't that incredible? Who would have guessed that?

My, my, my lawyer, Shlomo. Obviously.

Yes.

Yes.

The one straight guy in your team, maybe. We don't know.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Yeah, the jury's still out there. But yeah, but I mean, I just, you know, when I go on these things, I want people to look at my life as a testament and an example of the power and the grace of God. And the fact that like, because the people that I looked up to, Jorge, there was always like some rich dad somewhere. There was always like some degree from Stanford or there was always some degree from Columbia or there was always some skill. Like, I look up to my friends, you know, Kelly Slater. We've been texting all day about some personal stuff, but my God, when I watch him, when I watch him, I'm not a surfer, but when I watch him ride those waves, I think to myself what it must be like to be so gifted. When I look at Garrett McNamara, who by the way just won 2 Emmys for "Hundred Foot Wave," shout out to Garrett McNamara, Nicole McNamara. She's the—

yeah, shout out to them.

She's the success behind Garrett, the reason for his success. Um, I was talking to them today as well, but when I watch Garrett McNamara on 100 Foot Wave on HBO, watching him ride those massive, massive waves that are the size of skyscrapers, what it must be like to have those talents. Or, or my— even my buddy Huberman, who, you know, I didn't—

he's great.

Yeah, like, what— like, we just spent a week together in New York, and, and I, I just watch him, and I watch him answer everybody's questions. He cares about everybody. He loves everybody. It frustrates the shit out of me because I just want to have a meal with him and talk about life, and people on our left and people on our right are asking him all these pointed questions about circadian rhythm and whatever. But my God, how amazing must it be to be so fucking brilliant? He is so fucking brilliant and generous, and he's almost like— he's almost like mom vibes. Like he's maternal. Like he wants to nurture everyone, and which I don't like. I only want him nurturing me because I'm selfish.

Exactly.

But when we went to the gym together, my ex-girlfriend's daughter Sophia, he was training her and he was giving her all of his attention and he had so much knowledge and he's like, nope, scoop out, engage the core. Nope, drop, let go. And he's having her do these leg raises and training her. And I'm like, what would it be like to be so brilliant, to be so talented? I didn't have any of that shit. Yeah, I didn't have any of that shit and I still don't have any of that shit.

I'm more on your boat. You and I are more hermanos than, than probably.

Yeah, creative. Just, just creative. And so whatever it is, if you have a skill, if you don't have a skill, take a pen, write down your 1-year, your 3-year, and your 5-year plan. Go, if there's still magazine stands left, there are still a few here and there. Go buy some fancy magazines, get some scissors out, get, get some poster board, create your vision board.

Amen.

Have your 1-year, 3-year, and 5-year plan. Get up in the morning, go for a walk every morning, rain or shine, and out loud praise God for your blessings. Meaning praise God for the roof over your head. Praise, praise God for the clean water. That you get to bathe in, that you get to drink. Praise God for your perfect health, your perfect wealth, and your perfect love.

I love that.

And keep putting one foot in front of the other, and you will walk towards your dreams, and they will become a reality. I guarantee it. Might take 10 years, might take 20 years. If you're in your 40s, If you're in your 40s, you're in your 50s, when you become 75, you're going to realize how young you actually are and you're going to look back and go, why the fuck didn't I do it when I was in my 40s and 50s?

I was so young.

I was so young.

That's right. Well, I'm with you on that. I feel like one of my clients for years, you remember Steve Harvey, the comedian, right? Of course.

Of course.

I did a lot of work with him in LA. I was there all the time. While I was in Malibu, partly. And he always would tell me, and he's like, Jorge, life begins at 65. Love it. We're not even there yet.

Nope, 10 years away.

Yeah, yeah, we got time. We're warming up, warming up.

Yeah, by the way, at 55 years old, I am stronger and I am faster and I look better and I'm happier than I've ever been. And you know, that started 22 years ago when I put the needle down and the crack pipe down. And I reached out towards God and asked God for help. And so one day at a time, 1% better every day, just 1%, because I'm not one of those people that can do the fancy races. I'm not good at sprints. I'm great at marathons. I don't mean that literally, I mean that metaphorically, although I have— yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm great at What the Japanese call kaizen, which is tiny little incremental changes every single day, no matter what, over a sustained period of time will bring about monumental results.

Amazing. I, I, I so, I'm just so grateful to you right now for what you've shared. I think we've gone deeper than anyone I've, I've interviewed in so many years. And I feel like Thank you. It's your depth that comes from your strength and your— I think when we were chatting a little earlier, you said, you know, you wanted to, if you could reach just one person that was watching, remember?

Yes. Yeah. And that's always my goal.

And you were sharing with me how you did a 90-second interview with a young man that reached what, 18 million people already or something like that?

Yes. Yes.

But if you could reach one person right now, I think you've already said it.

Yeah. Yeah.

Of, of being honest. And, and honest in both what you need to do to change, but also the way you need to think and the way you've got to like realize that whatever pain we're trying to numb from the past, right?

Yes.

It's in the past, you know. And anything, you got to take responsibility for keeping it alive, right?

Yeah. My, my, my good friend, dear friend, Shen Schultz. He's one of the greatest human beings on the planet. He is a broker in Malibu. And Shen, you know, went through shit like you and I.

Sure.

Bad, really bad stuff. He doesn't really talk about it. Shen grew up eventually because he had to. His mother wasn't taking care of him. Shen grew up in a monastery. He grew up in a monastery, in a Zen Buddhist monastery as a child.

Wow.

And what Shen's version of all of what we just spoke about is this: all of us, most of us anyway, are walking around carrying this really fucking heavy rock. This rock is, my dad was mean to me, and my mom was mean to me, and my uncle touched me, and my teacher told me I was stupid, and I'm Mexican, and I'm Palestinian, and I'm Polish, and I'm this. It's heavy rock, and we're walking around with this heavy rock, and oh God, and life is so difficult, and she broke my heart, and he abandoned me, and he fucked me over, whatever. Shen says, buddy, buddy, buddy, drop the fucking rock.

Drop it.

Let it go. Oh, holy shit! If you drop the rock, you can fucking do anything. But if you're gonna hang on to the rock and you're constrictive, you're not gonna do much. Let go. Drop the rock. Let go. Become expansive. Become expansive. When you become expansive You welcome all the blessings, all the grace, all the good things. You're still going to get sick, you're still going to suffer, shit's still going to go, you know, we're all going to go through shit. When we're born, we inherit one-third of the suffering we're going to go through. Losing our parents, breaking our leg, cancer, losing our nut. I don't know, you know, I have no friends that have fucking testicular cancer, whatever the fuck. When you're born, you inherit that one-third of your suffering. But here's the part that no one ever fucking tells us. The other two-thirds of our suffering, we create it.

It's in the mind.

Yeah, yeah, it's in our mind.

It is.

It's in our mind. The, the guy, uh, what was his name? Tom Sawyer. Um, yeah, uh, what the fuck? Who's the fucking author? Um, the author of Tom Sawyer, whatever his name Mark Twain. Mark Twain said, I am an old man now, and I have, uh, I have suffered many tragedies, most of which never took place.

Well, and it's true. And if it took place, it took place for a time in our life, but we replay it, right? Yes. We just got to stop playing it. Let go. Let go.

Drop the rock. Power.

This has been an incredible just conversation that I think, talk about remembering to live. I mean, I just look at this book and I can feel the good energy from the COVID you know?

Thank you.

Let alone from this conversation. If people obviously want to be in touch with you, we've talked so much here in depth. What's the best way for them to be in touch and how do you usually share? Social or website?

Yeah, I'm Instagram. You know, @KhalilRafati. And I'm obnoxious, by the way, be prepared. I am gonna fucking push your buttons. I'm gonna like, I am the most introverted extrovert you'll ever meet. I am the most liberal conservative you will ever meet. I am a fucking contradiction. I'm a hot mess. And I'm, only interested in speaking my truth and doing my dance. And so, thank you. Some people follow me and they're like, man, this guy's amazing. And they're singing my praises. They're sending me messages. And then all of a sudden I put a post of me and Tulsi Gabbard up and they're like, what the fuck? He's MAGA. Fuck this guy. And it's just like, whoa, man, fucking relax. Yeah, Tulsi's my friend. And by the way, the Tulsi that I knew most of our friendship was a liberal Democrat. Yeah. As was I. Wow. So if it bothers you now that maybe I don't identify with the party that I always identified with, if that really bothers you, if you need to scream at me and think that I'm MAGA.

Yeah.

Okay. I don't care. I'm here to do my dance. And if it pleases you, that's wonderful. And if it doesn't please you or it angers you, that's wonderful too.

Well, I think you're going to learn that our community here, our little podcasts, and the people that I've been working with, you know, I was blessed. My first book was in— I can't believe it was— I mean, it came out during 9/11, 2001, and today's, you know, that day. And so many of us know where we were back in 2001. And I can tell you, Tony Robbins gave me a lot of good advice. He wrote the introduction to my first book when I was a kid, you know, great guy. And I've been friends with him for 30-plus years now. And he always says, it's like, who you're with is who you become. Yeah. I think you're going to learn our family, our community here with this podcast is made up of a lot of people like you and I that have had some sort of hurt. And now I think have the maturity to see we got to let go of it. Yeah. You know, and they're looking for inspiration. And I think this, as you say, it's SunLife, uh, love, love, heal, and inspire. Yeah, I think it's such a powerful thing. And SunLife has now become this brand that I'm just so proud to see. Like, with what you just said, you're licensing it now, and it's growing, and it got through a hurdle during COVID you know, through this incredible, um, window that we all had. You know, a lot of us saw it as a negative, but good things can happen from that. And yeah, I feel like hopefully we'll have you on the show again, buddy. I would love that.

Cool, cool.

We'll come out. Maybe I'll come out and—

yeah, let's do it in person next time.

Would that be okay?

Yeah, yeah, we need to do it in person.

I would love that.

I live in a brand new amazing house and there's a G-Wagon in the driveway and a giant American flag out front, so people kind of know where I'm at. Having said that, most of my neighbors— I mean, the neighbors across the street, I don't think they've ever done landscaping. They are, they are as bleeding heart liberal. They're the most beautiful people. They're an amazing couple. He's a lawyer that does all this pro bono work for people. Like, no one fucking cares who you vote for here. No one cares who you're having sex with here. This is the best— for me, it's the best of the liberal-minded, progressive-minded, which is my people. Yeah. And also there's a lot of shit-kicking Republicans, which is, which is, you know, unfortunately I, I'm leaning more that way now just because it seems to just make more sense to me. I, I feel like I got abandoned by my party. I did not enjoy the draconian lockdowns. I did not enjoy the vaccine mandates. I did not enjoy the, the cancel culture, all that weird shit that went on. I, I'm I don't like hatred. I don't like hatred. And my party of love, my party that Martin Luther King represented and the Kennedys represented, and, you know, all of the— I mean, my God, all like— I was going to gay bars when I was in high school. I was going to drag shows when I was in high school. I'm the most fuck— I'm Palestinian, for God's sakes. I'm the most liberal fucking person you'll ever meet. But I lean right now. And if— and, you know, that, that's just the way it goes, you know. I, I I don't make any apologies or excuses for it, but I can live in a town where tonight I can go grab dinner with somebody that is completely the opposite of me and is going to ridicule the shit about, uh, of, of how I think, but they're a good person.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm so excited for what's ahead, and I can't thank you enough, buddy, for this time together. I feel like it went by in a second.

It did.

It did. And I can't tell you how much this means to me and how much of an honor it is to sit down with you, because I know you've done— you're doing more of these, but I know, uh, it's kind of a— you don't do them as often as some people. Some people have done hundreds of these, and I know you're definitely select, and, and it means a lot to us.

So thank you.

I'll take you up on a couple of those offers. I'll ping you afterwards. All right, cool. Amazing. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. Do you mind if we end with the Serenity Prayer? I think we need We do it. What do you think?

Beautiful.

Do you want to lead or do you want me to? I, I, you do mind?

You please. You, you, me.

All right.

Yeah.

All right. Let's end with this, guys. God, God grant me the serenity or grant us the serenity to accept the things we cannot change, the courage to change the things we can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

Oh, so powerful. Woo.

Love you, Mother Earth. Love you so much. Love you.