A Curriculum that Brings Purpose and Meaning Post-retirement

Welcome to the Living to 100 Club Podcast.

Well, hello to everyone joining us today on our podcast. You're listening to one of our Successful Aging episodes this month on the Living to 100 Club program, and I'm your host, Joseph Casciani. On each program, our conversations educate and inspire, helping you get the best out of all the years we're given, regardless of what obstacles come our way. You can learn more about our club at our website, And be sure to take a look at my new training and activities manual, Better, Longer, and Happier: A Guide to Aging with Purpose and Positivity. It's a series of 12 modules in a card deck format developed for activities directors at senior living communities and organizations. Visit the website livingto100.club/blh. Now on to our podcast. On today's program, we introduce our listeners to Third Half Advisors and the founders Carolyn Brecker and Campbell Gerrish. Third Half Advisors helps individuals figure out their next chapter. How do people find purpose when their primary career concludes? What are the best ways to manage our senior years? Stay positive, find leisure time, and thrive in new compelling environments. Our guests Carolyn and Campbell discuss the mission of Third Half Advisors, their strengths assessment tool, their curriculum offered, and what clients learn from their participation in the program. First, a little background. Carolyn and Campbell, the founding partners, have known each other for over 15 years. Carolyn as a private banker at JPMorgan and Campbell as a principal of Winged Keel Group. They work together on advising high-net-worth executives and families on all aspects of their estate and insurance planning. Carolyn moved on from JPM and Campbell began to wind down at WKG. They then continued to meet and would discuss the next stages of their lives, and in those conversations, the third half was born. Together, they have over 70 years of business experience, most of it working with highly capable and demanding client groups. Their tremendous business acumen, shared values, and deep desire to help people bring strength and depth to the Third F, both as a business venture and in shaping their own lives. They themselves are Third Haffers. Carolyn and Campbell, welcome to our program today.

Thank you, Joe.

Yeah, you're welcome.

Thank you very much.

You're welcome. You're most welcome. I always like to open by asking our guests to share a little bit about the private journey that brought you to where you are today. I touched on some of the highlights in your career, but maybe share some of the, some of the paths you took to get to where you are today. Carolyn, why don't we start with you?

Thank you. I actually think the inspiration really starts with Campbell. Campbell was stepping back from Third Half, and as he was doing so, I saw some of my peer group, including my spouse, starting to step back from their careers. And I think both of us have always been very interested in how people have balanced and conducted their lives. And what is interesting is people are stepping back from their major careers. We were seeing people finding it challenging. And Campbell will talk a little bit about his personal experience. But I felt that dislocation of not having necessarily the structure of what I would deem warrior career. Um, and as, uh, we both looked around for resources to help us with this transition, we were surprised at how little seemed to be offered in guidance out there. Um, often I think people say, should I be going to my physician to ask about this? Should I be going to a therapist, a career coach? But none of those seem to really completely fill the bill. So, Campbell and I set out to try to find a curriculum for the experienced professionals we're surrounded by who could really help— we can help navigate this next phase. So, I want to turn it over to Campbell so he could describe his transition from Wink Hill because I think it's particularly interesting.

Yeah, I think what happened, Joe, is I had been in the life insurance business, as you mentioned, for over 40 years, and I built a successful brokerage firm. You know, at some point the fire in my belly to do what I've been doing all those years went out. And I said to myself and my partners, you know, I really feel like I have another chapter here. I have more energy, but I need to devote it in a different direction. And they agreed with me that I would begin to reduce my time and energy put towards the business. But when I found a lot of white space on my own calendar, it was sort of daunting. It looked like a wonderful thing at the outset, all that white space, do whatever you want, but it was much more complicated than I thought it was, Joe. And so, as Caroline pointed out, you know, I would typically take a course or go to a seminar, but, you know, there's tons of information available on the internet and through various other resources, but we didn't find a course that really would say to us, I can go out and learn this in a way that's going to really benefit me in particular. Uh, it's going to be designed for me. I'm going to work with other intelligent people, uh, to come up with ideas that kind of really give me purpose at this stage of my life. Because I think that is really the, the key, is to have meaning and purpose. And we know from scientific research that people who do have meaning and purpose in their lives will live longer, and they'll be— they will be healthier. So it was in that direction and that with that goal in mind that we began to create our curriculum 5 or 6 years ago. And since then, I think you've already mentioned, but we've already had 500 people or more go through the program. And when Caroline and I started this, we said to ourselves, if we can affect one person in a positive way, we're going to feel successful about the business. And so we've been doing it for quite some time now, and we feel proud of what we've accomplished. We still have a lot more to do.

Sure. Yeah, well, I can understand that. Um, as you mentioned, Carolyn, the lack of structure in Campbell— you're saying you didn't find any real explicit course kind of targeting you, someone in your position, so you created Third Half Advisors. Um, maybe you could share with our listeners where the, where the name comes from. What's the origin of Third Half Advisors?

Yeah, it's sort of funny, Joe, because when I was in college, I played rugby, and And, you know, you would play two halves of rugby on the field, but in the game of rugby, there would always be another half, and that was where you would actually meet and socialize with the other team. And it's the only sport that I know of in the world where people actually get together with their opponents and get to know them and have some fun together. And so the image of the third half was in my mind, you've played two halves on the field and now you still have a third half to play. It's a little bit of an oxymoron, but it does get people to think, okay, if I finish the game on the field now, what sort of a game do I want to play? If I have as much time now looking forward as I did back on my career, it gives people a different method of looking at the future.

Yeah, and that's a lot of time, right?

Right.

There's a lot of years now, and we're, we're living longer and we're staying healthy longer, so we have this what I call, or Ken Dyckwald called, the longevity bonus. How do we take advantage of our longevity? How do we really fill those years productively? So yeah, so you're meeting that need. What, um, I'm curious, what, when your participants or when prospective members join you, what are they looking? Are they looking for the same thing, or do you hear different stories from them? What kind of needs you hope they're hoping to meet?

I think one of the things I think that's really important to note, and it's why we start our program with something called CliftonStrengths, which is very much an individual-based assessment on people's personal wiring, is that everybody's journey is quite different in retirement. There are lots of variables in people as they age. All the way from the professional experience they've had to their family configuration, to where they're living, to what communities and interests they might face. And, you know, to Campbell's point, one of the biggest challenges is the white space. That is the paradox of choice, if you're familiar with Barry Schwartz's work, that, you know, if you ever walk down the aisle and try to pick a jelly, you might walk away going, I have just no idea what jelly I should pick now. That's, And the same thing about life when you have so many opportunities and you've had so much experience. So, what we try to do is help people affirm or narrow down what they really are good at and what they value. And then that helps sort of directionally point them in less choices to some degree. So, you know, back to the point of our name of Third Half and advisors, there's all this incongruity in the stage of life where there is both freedom but dislocation. You have a lot of time, but then you don't in some ways. So it's, it's that seesaw of trying to figure out between I could do anything, but can I do anything and will I be fulfilled with that? And so for the most part, each one of our individuals is affirming who they are or figuring out more interesting things that they maybe didn't realize. And then trying to figure out what, how to navigate the white space and the time. Just to take that a little further, we, we find sometimes people have two approaches to this. Either they busy themselves so much that their calendar is completely full with things, they finish a week and go, what the heck did I do? I don't know if I enjoyed all that. Or they're just not sure what to do with their time.

Mhm.

So, so those are kind of two categories we see.

Yeah, interesting. So the CliftonStrengths assessment helps to narrow down their choices. I mean, we're flooded with it, we're overwhelmed with all the choices, all the different directions we can take. So based on their strengths and interests, it helps to narrow down their— the choices they can make going forward. Yeah.

That's exactly right, Joe. And I think in many cases it's choosing what not to do. It's just as important as choosing what you're going to do. Many people proceed with things they've been sort of foisted on them, and they continue doing it because whatever responsibility they feel. But, you know, they're not really enjoying it. You know, we talked with someone who had been charged with running their 50th reunion from college. And they had just started and they thought, gee, that sounds like a great idea. But realistically, their skills weren't matched up with what was required at all. And they said, wait a minute, this is crazy. I shouldn't be doing this. Somebody else should.

Sure.

And I can help in a different way. And so I think it's that kind of a mindset where you're choosing things that you really shouldn't be doing because you don't necessarily have the skills, number one, but more importantly, you wouldn't really enjoy it. And part of the, part of the focus of our program is how to have fun at this stage of life. It's a big factor in enjoying life on a day-to-day basis, Joe.

Yeah. Yeah, that's good. So, helping to reduce some of the mistakes, making the bad choices. I call that kind of informed decision-making. You're helping people kind of learn all the facts and then they can zero in on that area they want to target or go after and what to avoid, right?

Makes sense. So the strengths is one filter that we use, uh, and again, it's really— we're aiming at people getting the most energy out of things. So in fact, during a professional career, you could do a number of skills because you have to that may fall lower in your skill set or talent set, but you do those because you need to and you're being paid to do a certain job. So again, we're really focusing on what's going to give you energy. And as Campbell said, making sure that the shoulds part isn't always in the background, that you start letting go of the things. In addition, we have a filter of values and we have a tool that we really find very helpful. That's called the decision matrix. And we have people line up their selected values and then really score their activities that they're currently doing against the set of values they believe to be at the forefront of this stage. And it's very interesting. We've had some great stories where, you know, people jump up in the middle of it and go, I think I'm going to go resign from this board tomorrow, you know, because they realize what they're doing, just, they're just doing it, but it's not really in sync with their values anymore.

Do you find people make a 180-degree turn from the direction they're going down after they go through all of this? I mean, do they open a completely new door that they never imagined or foresaw?

I think they do in many cases, Joe. I'll give you a good example of a friend of mine, actually a fellow rugby player who was an engineer for his entire career,. And he got to this stage of life and was thinking about what he would do with his time, and he realized he really loved playing the guitar as much as anything. And he also loved helping out at school, and he was able to link up with a school for underprivileged students in his hometown of Richmond, Virginia. And he said, you know, I can teach these kids how to play guitar and appreciate music. And they had very limited extracurricular activities. And he began to teach them guitar. They began to appreciate music, and after a year or two, they turned it into a real course. And now they have a music appreciation course. He got his teacher to actually design a course and teach it on a regular basis. And so, you know, here are these kids who never would have had this option, and certainly he wouldn't have thought about it in his engineering career. But he said, you know, that, that's what I really love to do. I love to play, I love to teach. I put those two together and I open up a whole new for children on their way to college.

Yeah, that's a beautiful story. I love to hear those stories. I may have mentioned the book Next by Joanne Littman, and she talks about people who, you know, kind of make a different turn in their kind of trajectory. And she told the story about Alan Greenspan, who was a drummer, a jazz drummer for several years, and he decided, no, this isn't doing it. He went back to school and studied economics and You know, the rest is history. So, yeah, people make these turns, and I just think that's great because we don't really know until we open that door and take those steps forward. So, yeah. All right. So, let's talk about Third Half Advisors. What are the programs that you offer? I think this is a fascinating collection of resources for the person who's looking for some answers. So, what are the programs you offer?

So there are really 3 modalities for us. Uh, the— there is the virtual world. Thanks to COVID, we turned heavily, obviously, as everyone else did, into virtual offerings. So we have both an independent study, which is a 4-part series, uh, which is one-on-one with a coach, designed for somebody with a schedule that needs some flexibility, and also personalized attention. There is our group milestone, which is virtually offered, and that is our— I like to call our Berlitz version, which is 2 3-hour sessions with coaching flanking those sessions. That's generally 6 to 8 people. And then we have our retreat, which is more of an immersion version, and that's typically 2 and a half days. And then we do have a one-day version that is just, uh, a bit more collapsed version with a focus on strengths, values, and portfolio life.

Yeah, and circling around all that, Joe, we have a thing we call the Lift Series, and we invite in speakers once a month for the most part, uh, to talk on all sorts of different topics, uh, that are that are pertinent to this stage of life. You know, we've had people talk about various insurance plans, Medicare, et cetera. What do you do? You know, elder care, all kinds of things. We had a very famous business school teacher talking about how undergraduates are planning out their careers and how that's congruent with what some people are trying to do with their post-career lives. So we have an active speaker series, and we like to consider those people fellow professionals who are available to members of our community.

Sure. Well, maybe I could persuade you to, you know, consider my presentation on successful aging and managing setbacks.

Yeah, I think that's a good idea.

You know, it's not always a smooth road, and how do we deal with those, you know, those challenges that come along? Because they're always going to be there.

Yeah, you know, another thing that we have been exploring lately is really working with business owners who are in transition. And, you know, it's a big issue for business owners who started a company to think about what their next chapter might be. And in many cases, I think the numbers are that 4 out of 5 businesses do not do that successfully. They do not pass the business on to the next generation with any alacrity because the owner doesn't want to leave. He or she can't imagine what life would be like without their business. Their identity is so tied up with it that they can't get out of their own way. And so we find people working beyond the point where that's really useful for the company. And we have a program called TIPP, which stands for time, identity, and place. And those are the 3 crucial factors that people have to think through in getting to another, uh, evolution of their business practice.

Yeah, can you explain those a little bit? I was going to ask— I know we touched on that when we spoke earlier, but time, identity, and place, these are the three pillars. What—

yeah, well, I would start out with time because for the most part during our careers, time is managed for us. Uh, we've got plenty of meetings set up, uh, we have people reporting to us. We have all sorts of things going on. It's pretty constant, and you don't have to think much about planning your time. But in retirement, you know, we like to use more of a light planning tool, but something that gives some form to what people do on a day-to-day basis. And, you know, there's a famous book called Four Thousand Weeks by Oliver Burkeman. And he brings out the fact that there aren't that many weeks left in, in reality. And so you've got to be thinking about making the most of them. Uh, and another thing that he talks about in, in Time is really finding moments of wonder in your day, looking for moments of wonder, little points in time where something wonderful is happening. And when you're talking about maintaining a positive outlook and overcoming problems and, and normal hindrances, Finding some of those moments of wonder in dealing with your day-to-day life is really important. So that's number one. And I think identity— Caroline, you can chime in on that.

Right. And Joe, you've, I'm sure, spent a lot of time on this as well. But, you know, who am I is a seminal question for people. So as we mentioned, CliftonStrengths is one of the affirmational tools we use. But really trying to understand motivational values and what we call building an internal resume. So while we spent a lot of our lives building the external resume as we move to different jobs, etc., we try to have people look at what that internal building looks like. You've read David Brooks' The Second Mountain. Again, it's getting to that sort of second mountain, a higher scaffolding of, of being rather than doing. And in addition, identity may be building a legacy, moving off center stage. What does that look like if you're potentially grooming someone else or thinking about a portfolio life where your identity is attached to different things in the portfolio life, not just your career?

Sure. Yeah, there's an expression that I'd like to use that says that we are not defined by who we were yesterday.

Yeah, right.

And it's so easy, as you mentioned, Campbell, that, you know, the notion of somebody spending their whole career in one particular activity or business or, you know, whatever, and that goes away, and then who are they? And the questions are, and, you know, am I still the accountant? Am I still the nurse, the doctor, the writer? The homemaker, or can I let go of that identity and create a new one? So I think that's the issue you're trying to, you know, fix for people, helping them to say, all right, this is— I'm kind of reshaping my identity. I'm looking at some different, maybe from a different perspective of who I am or who I could be.

Yeah, that's right. And that involves a lot of exploration. Yeah, that's not something most people are familiar with doing. But just to finish there with the P in place, I think if you're not going to your office, which has been your community, you have to think about what your new community is going to be. And either you're going to join up with a different community or you're going to create your own community. And either of those work effectively. But we know that people who are lonely are much more likely to fall prey to illness. And if you're involved with others and you're engaged in creating something, particularly something new, you're going to be happier and you're going to live longer. So, trying to find a new community is not always easy. In many cases, it's not going to work out at first, but eventually you sort of find your tribe, so to speak. And that's what we recommend people do, whatever it happens to be.

And it may be moving. And obviously, we talk a lot about, at this stage, downsizing. We like to call it fun-sizing. Which we didn't make up, but it should be that you start to create these interests from this filter that we've discussed and then aim that at a group of people, as Campbell said, who are your tribe, who share those interests. And sometimes it may not be a big move. It might be moving across town. But, and we've had our, clients, and frankly myself, who've just changed the location of where they live within their, their hometown. And it's amazing what change does as just a generative opportunity to meet new people.

Yeah, it's kind of, um, just giving it that structure, all three of those pillars— the time, identity, the place. There may not be significant changes, but is just kind of re— um, interpreting where I am now as opposed to just drifting along. I, I want to identify this, this new place, this new, new time, this new sense of identity. It's— it may not be significant changes or maybe major, but it's still kind of understanding where I am now in, in these three perspectives.

Yeah. You know, back to the stories of people who have been making those kind of changes, we have a great one of, uh, one of our friends and clients in Omaha, Nebraska. He was a successful attorney and he began to wind down his practice, and literally a dream came to him, Joe. He, he, and it was all formed in his mind that he would create a tri-faith center where Muslims, Jews, and Christians would worship in the same location. He said, if I was able to do that, we would have more common discourse and positive conversations. And, you know, it took him a long time to do it. It's more than most people want to take on. He had to raise a lot of money, had to get a lot of people involved. But as far as I'm concerned, it's the only one I know of in the United States, the Tri-Faith Center in Omaha, Nebraska. They've done it successfully. It's really worked great. And it's really given him great, great solace that he was able to do that. And it provides a great legacy for him and his own family. So things like that are being done all the time. They're just not always seen been on the front page of the news.

Sure, sure. Yeah, that's— I mean, it's just such, um, an unlimited number of opportunities, right? I mean, we just don't know, right? Helping people to kind of narrow down where they want to head. Um, and it is unlimited what we, what we can do. It may come from a dream, may come from your, you know, strengths assessment tool or whatever, but it's, it's adding some some definition to this journey. That's how I see it.

Yeah. Well, and I think it adds some intentionality. And so whether it's a big shift or a small one, you know, another example, um, there's this wonderful woman who went through one of our classes. She works very hard at her consulting business. Um, she just after our class decided she would take, uh, Fridays off. That just would be a sacrosanct day. And she spent that day mostly with her mother and just had a wonderful— they shared a love of music and just had a wonderful time. Her mother ended up passing away unexpectedly. So she came back to us to say, to say what a gift that was, that she made that one small pivot. It wasn't big, but again, it could be large like the Tri-Face Center. But just the intentionality of observing what it is you want at this stage and going for it, I think, is where we can really help people rather than, as you said, just sort of drifting through ideas. Yeah, or thoughts.

That, that's a good point, Carolyn, that intentionality. And I, you know, I mentioned direction, but the intentionality. But I, I wonder, there's got to be times when people fall into a role that they did not want, that was not desired, was not expected. Maybe they become a caregiver of spouse who's got Parkinson's or Alzheimer's disease. And do you interact with those folks at all where they're now finding themselves in a role that they didn't want, but it's theirs, and they take it on 100%? Do you come across those folks?

You know, we really haven't all that much, Joe. We're dealing with people generally younger in the retirement community, but you know, I can understand the challenge of that. And I think of, you know, a lot of the practice we use can help people to deal with that, to find a community of people to help them along, to change their mindset. But certainly, that's a big challenge.

Yeah.

Well, I would say actually just a slight tilt on that. I mean, we certainly have people who've gone through our programs who have, who do have elder care issues that become quite acute. And so actually, back to that LIV series, we have a table of people who can help with the resources. I think that we as a society are really trying to build some resources for what you would call the unexpected caregiver because it's a really hard role. And so being able to help people with that is significant. I think the other thing that's challenging is personal health crises for people. We certainly have a number of people who've recovered from serious illnesses. And, and what we find is, back to the community, it's just so essential to have a community of people to, to boost you, to support you. And that's what we find exceptional in, is particularly our live retreats, is, you know, this support and the inspiration for people to be resilient, which you, of course, are deeply involved in.

Yeah, I think that's right, Carolyn. There are occasions when we have a, you know, medical event, you know, maybe a stroke or an accident, head trauma, or maybe the loss of a spouse that nobody expects. And it's still part of our, you know, part of our coping. How do we deal with this? And I can see the support and kind of community that your Third Half Advisors can offer is a nice resource, a nice supplement for those people to complement their, their, uh, you know, how they're, how they're getting through this.

Sure, right. Yeah, I think there's also camaraderie for people dealing with their children too, and, um, we've, um, certainly spent some sessions talking about that in our LIFT series. And again, this is for many young people, it has been, you know, in the COVID era, a dislocating time. And so I think there's a lot of shared experience and head scratching as to how to help the next generation, not to mention the technical divide that we all face. So there's a lot of learning together of how to stay relevant. To that generation. I think it's really important.

Yeah, no, that's a good point. The other direction too, um, what's, what's going forward and children that I'm raising, my adult children and all of that.

Yeah, grandchildren.

I agree, I guess so.

That's right.

You mentioned several, um, uh, stories of people who have been in your program. Can you think of any others that kind of stand out in your mind that You know, people had a lot of questions and you offered them some direction.

Well, there's a woman who was a very accomplished CEO and was at one of the retreats we held in Sun Valley, and she had been a very active business person, and she chose to move to Sun Valley and started a culinary school there. And we had one of our retreats there, and of course we had great food and wine, but also some real important interaction among— it happened to be a group of women, uh, and Caroline was there. You can tell us more about the outcome, but it was pretty cool, right?

And, uh, interestingly, um, I think for us the biggest help that we could guide her is to how to calibrate that. You know, she had that CEO mindset, um, and running this wonderful school, but then it became more than she wanted to do. So, so actually the important part was back to what we talked about earlier, is the shoulds you feel, how do you back off that and recalibrate your portfolio life? So she has people in her life, she wants to travel, do other things, and not be wedded to something necessarily that was like being a CEO of a Fortune 500 company. So, uh, it's kind of pulling the levers of the third half that I think is important. It's a continual process of sort of checking in with the advisory community that we help people with to say, that's just, just doesn't seem like the, the what I wanted to be doing 100% of my time.

Yeah.

So there are stories of that where there's sort of resiliency needed or rethinking of things. We've had a lot of interesting people who've turned to the arts. We've had one of our members who was a general counsel for Fortune 500 company, become a world-class photographer, love to travel. So it just fits beautifully, uh, with the travel piece. And he now has a website and is selling some photos that are just lovely. Well, another, uh, uh, teacher inspired by an earlier journey she had on Broadway was able to write a very profound book about it, which was picked up by the Times. So it helped inspire her to write a book. Many people are in that thought leadership category. How do we, by teaching or becoming an adjunct professor, there are a number of stories around that kind of bridge to a new career that may fit nicely in a portfolio life.

Yeah, well, yeah, so, um, you mentioned the, uh, kind of the unfolding process, that it's not always a, a quick solution there. It, um, it kind of winds its way through this. And as you mentioned, the CEO who wanted to become, you know, um, have her own catering company. So it is an unfolding process. It's not a, a quick, um, start-stop solution found. Yeah, yeah.

Well, what I think is very interesting about this stage is you have people who have such a wealth of experience, um, and if they have been achievement-oriented and successful, you just assume that that's just going to keep unfolding in that way. And you— I think people feel those skills that they've had will transfer so nicely into this third half, and What is— what we're finding is that not necessarily. And the ambiguity of this is particularly around time is just— is what really needs to continually be tinkered with. And, you know, it's really a reframe. It is. And we have as a society lots of pictures of people golfing in the sunset. You know, there's a media image of everything is wonderful, leisure activity after leisure activity, but it is in reality quite different from that for many people. You mentioned the caregiving aspects, etc. So the reality of how to have joy, and we believe it can be the best time of your life, but as we said, it takes some intentionality by some light structure and thinking through how you're going to approach it.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I think the word ambiguity is probably a big part of that too, because we, we don't always know, and it is a learning process. Yeah. And, you know, like I said, living to 100 is a great goal, but it's not in the cards for everybody. And, you know, we can stay positive, continuing to move forward no matter what gets in the way.

Yeah, it's true.

One of our earlier comments, I just wanted to complete the circle on the portfolio of activities because we really believe that people people should try to set up a portfolio of various activities in different categories. And we give 6 categories, but there are all sorts of different ones. But we think it's more like balancing a portfolio of assets. You have to have some of this and some of that, and you have to change your percentages from time to time on how you're going to allocate your time. So, I think a portfolio life is a good way to think about this stage of life. You're not doing one thing, but you're doing a portfolio of things that hopefully all of which you enjoy.

Yeah. A new palette, so to speak. Right. Yeah.

Right.

Good.

Exactly.

Yeah. Yeah. So, you have 500 members, thereabouts. How does someone get started if they, you know, any of our listeners here, what do they do next?

Well, we would invite them to visit us on our website at thirdhalfadvisors.com. It's all one word. And, uh, there is a nice button you can click on, which offers a 30-minute consult with us. And we would be so happy to talk to those folks who are trying to figure out this transition and whether we're the right program or we can suggest the right resource. We would be certainly happy to do that.

Great, great, great. ThirdHalfAdvisors.com. Great. So, we're just about out of time. What's the takeaway for the audience? What would you hope they remember from this conversation?

Well, I think the most important from my perspective, and Caroline reinforced it, is that you do have agency at this stage of life. You get the opportunity to choose what you want to do. So, there's a lot of power in that., but it needs to be directed in a way that brings people joy and abundance. So it truly can be the best third of your life, but it requires some patience and some persistence and some advice.

Well, good.

Caroline, how about you?

That's perfect. I don't think I could have said it better.

Yeah, great. Well, looks like we're out of time for today. Before I wrap up, I just wanna remind my listeners to visit my website, livingto100.club, sign up for my email list and download a free copy of my 9 tips to make living longer enjoyable. And if you're affiliated with a senior living setting, be sure to look for my new training manual and activity guide, Better, Longer, and Happier. Campbell and Carolyn, thanks so much for being guests on my program today. For people that have questions, they can go to the website, Third Half Advisors. And hopefully we'll get some interest. And I, I think it's great offering this kind of aid and assistance and guidance and insight to people who are searching for some new direction. So thank you both for the work you're doing and, uh, and for being guests.

Well, thank you, Joe. We enjoyed it.

Thank you, Joe. Really appreciate it.

Great, great.