Changing Brain Behavior with Vagus Nerve Stimulation

Welcome to the Living to 100 Club Podcast. Here's our host, Dr. Joseph Casciani.

Well, hello to everyone joining us today on our podcast. You're listening to one of our public episodes this month on the Living to 100 Club program, and I am your host, Joe Casciani. Each week, our conversations educate and inspire, helping you get the best out of all the years we are given, regardless of what obstacles come our way. These public episodes air twice a month. With a premium membership, subscribers can listen to an episode every week, two public and two premium. So subscribers have access to two additional episodes a month. All episodes share educational and inspiring stories with practical tips and strategies for aging well. Premium episodes are for subscribers only, so be sure to sign up today at livingto100club.supercast.com. Today's program explores the world of vagus nerve stimulation, or VNS as we'll abbreviate it, and the breakthrough industry of neuromodulation. Our guest for this podcast is Vitaliy Mayurovich, the co-developer of Pulsetto. Pulsetto is a project that targets the vagus nerve with mild electromagnetic signals. Because the vagus nerve is considered within the highway between the brain and our internal organs with unique branches to every organ, VNSs are now used in a variety of medical treatments targeting blood pressure, joint pain, headache, stress, and other medical conditions. First, a little background. Vitaliy Myravas is a sleep and recovery coach, as well as a certified Buteyko Clinic breathing instructor. He has spent more than 12 years in the sleep product industry and is one of the most famous sleep and longevity experts in Lithuania. In his articles, Vitalijus provides practical tips on improving the quality of your sleep and having significantly more energy, mental fitness, and productivity. We'll list the website collection of his articles on the show notes. In the meantime, we can start with our program today. Vitalyus, welcome.

Thank you for very, very good introduction.

Thanks. Oh, good, good. You're, you're welcome. Well, I always like to open by asking our guests to tell us a little bit about the journey that brought you to where you are today. I touched on some of your past work, but give us the highlights.

So I spent more than 10 years working in, um, with sleep products, with mattresses, pillows, and etc. Different companies, different countries. Originally, by the way, I'm from Lithuania, it's European Union country, small country. So I worked in Europe, in my country, in Turkey, Hungary. And during those 10 years, you know, I really started to understand that it's not only about mattress, not only about pillow, you know, you can have, I don't know, the best mattress in the world. But for example, if you're sleeping in the hot room, even the mattress for €20,000 will not, or dollars, will not save you. I started to understand that I need to go deeper to this topic and I really went dig deeper in this topic. I got certification. I finished some studies of sleep. I experimented a lot on myself. I was doing this kind of 100-night experiments when 3 nights in a row I was testing some different things. For example, eating kiwi before bed because there are scientific publications showing that if you're eating kiwi, you, you'll sleep better. So I was doing a lot of things, you know, and one of the things was vagus nerve. Uh, yeah. So this is how I, let's say, first met this nerve. And the second touch point, it's my wife, you know, because she has cluster head pains. For those who don't know, the cluster head pains, it's a terrible condition. It's like 10 times stronger than migraine. It happens, uh, rarely. I mean, like once per year. For one week, let's say, but during that week, you know, the pain is so strong that other name of this diagnosis is the suicidal pains.

Oh no.

Yeah, because the pain is very strong and basically there are no treatment in the world. I mean, have good efficiency. There are some oxygen therapy and et cetera, but there are some studies showing that vagus nerve stimulation can help to minimize those pains. And for example, there is even one device on the market which already has FDA approval, which means they have a lot of studies and clinical trials for migraine and cluster head pain treatment, also Vagus nerve stimulator. So this was my personal motivation to do something. And now I have some kind of weapon in my house. No, if next time the situation will happen, I can give to my wife my device. Okay, it's not proven that it's for cluster head pains yet, but I mean, I know that I have some, some weapon. So this is how I came to this topic. And then one day I met my other business partner who has very big experience in vagus nerve stimulator, and then we decided, let's do, let's try to do something. So this is how Pulsetto, let's say, born in the past.

So the vagus nerve stimulation is not unique. I mean, it's not new. Yeah, it's being used, and we'll talk more about how Pulsetto is different, but it's been shown to help with these cluster head pains, cluster headaches, what we call them here in the US. The VNS is helpful with that?

Yeah, it's helpful. I mean, yes. So the one device is, like I said, they have already claims that they can treat this. Even our customers, for example, we are not claiming that we can help, but we are using quite similar electric signal to that previously mentioned company. And some of our customers, they're writing to us that I have positive side effect, that my migraine is decreasing. And we are saying it's not surprise for us because we understand this. We just need more time and data and trials to prove it. But yeah, it's really possible because it's proven. I mean, that it can work, you know. Basically, it's like a 0.01 population has this cluster head pains. But those who have, they know that it's a terrible, terrible condition.

So the vagus nerve stimulation is the technology, but it's really a matter of the stimulation and neuromodulation, what you talked about. That's what the vagus nerve stimulator does. It helps with that neuromodulation.

Yeah.

Can you explain that?

Yeah, this neuromodulation, what it means, we are electric stimulation, you are changing behavior, especially brain behavior, basically. Under this neuromodulation, there are some, let's say, big markets, big segments. For example, spinal cord stimulators. It's invasive stimulators, which means you need to do surgery. But those spinal cord stimulators, they are treating chronic pain, back pain, which is a very big problem, especially in the US and etc. And big market already for 10, 15 years. Then, for example, also under neuromodulation, we have deep brain stimulators, also invasive devices which treating very serious conditions like Parkinson's, Parkinson's, like tremors and etc. Vagus nerve stimulation is also part of the neuromodulation, also part of this electric stimulation, let's say, market. And you are right, this technology is not new. Already 20 years ago Doctors in US, they started to implant vagus nerve stimulators for treating the epilepsy and depression. First of all, they were treating epilepsy and then suddenly, accidentally, they found that it's not only good for epilepsy, but you can also treat this very strong mental disorder like depression. Invasive stimulators. So it was 20 years ago. As I know, there are around 300,000 people with implanted vagus nerve stimulators in the world. Majority of them are in US. But then something like 7, 8 years ago, science found that you basically can reach very similar effect on the skin, which means non-invasive treatment. Some difference between invasive and non-invasive effect, you know, the effectiveness level, but basically you can get like a 95% the same efficiency if you are doing electricity on the skin. So you don't need to make a surgery because, you know, surgery is costly. Then those implants, they need to change the batteries.

Have risks. They have risks.

Yeah. There are risks and, and et cetera. So of course, non-invasive treatment always will be more, let's say, popular for the mass, uh, people.

Yeah. Well, tell us about the vagus nerve. How does it fit into our nervous system?

So basically it's longest nerve in our body and unique. And by unique, what I mean, This nerve is like a highway between brain and internal organs. It connects those two things, or in other words, mind and body connection. And why it's unique? Because the branches of this nerve is in every organ. Only one of the organs which has branches basically in all organs, liver and other and etc. So the main role, it's like a communication role basically, because brain and internal organs, they're communicating, they're communicating through neurons and those neurons are going through the nerve. And this communication is like a two-way highway. So from one side, brain needs to receive some information from the organs. For example, liver as the organ has around 500 functions. So brain through the vagus nerve receive like a checkup status. Is it okay? All those 500 functions working okay.

Yeah.

And reverse communication exists. So for example, brain sends through the vagus nerve some signals that, for example, you need to release a bile, you need to decrease the blood pressure, you need to decrease the heart rate, and et cetera. So in other words, the vagus nerve is the part of this parasympathetic nervous system, which just means rest and digest. So brain gives you information through the vagus nerve that relax.

Kind of the conductor or— Yeah, it's a, it's a kind of conductor of what's going on in our organs.

Yeah. Now the problem is that if you have let's say this conductor is not working properly, yeah, or your, in other words, your vagus tone is low, then, uh, you are missing this communication tool, yeah, uh, and then you have problems with, and it can be a lot of problems with, uh, let's say high stress, with, uh, even high blood pressure, even digestion problem because this gut-brain axis which is also very popular terminology nowadays. It's also connected via vagus nerve. Yeah. This, I mean, you know, that the gut is related with the brain and it's very connected with the brain. For example, you have foggy brain if you had some kind of food or, or reverse situation. So this is also through the vagus nerve. So if the vagus nerve tone is low, then you have problems and you are missing the connection between the brain and the body. But the good point that you can activate this nerve. So even if you have low tone, you can activate this nerve and you can do it manually at home. We can talk about like things, what everyone can do. And there are some tools. Our, for example, this is how Pulsetto is one of the tools, how to in the past way, in the past inefficient way, but even without Pulsetto, you can do some, uh, let's say things, uh, for the vagus nerve activation. And also just one thing I said, the vagus nerve tone. So usually people are asking, so how I can measure my vagus tone? Because it's very abstract phrase.

Yeah.

So you can measure by heart rate variability. This is very concrete indicator. It's showing your level of the vagus nerve tone. So the higher the heart rate variability, the better vagus nerve tone. So it means that you are more relaxed, more time you are spending in rest and digest in this parasympathetic phase and less time spending in fight or flight, this sympathetic, uh, stage. But probably it's now too much information.

No, no, no, no. That's good.

That's good.

So, um, if there's stress, the vagus nerve, the tone of that nerve, the conduction isn't as strong under stress?

Stress is normal condition because on everyday level you have those stressful things. In some case, stress is good. For example, because he's focusing you, you know, keeping energy. But the problem that if stress remains for the longer period of time, yeah, then it's becoming chronic situations. So if, if you're, let's say, vagus nerve tone is low and you cannot relax, yeah, fast, you cannot take a timeout, you cannot reset yourself like computer reset, then it means that you are less on parasympathetic nervous system, on, on rest, just You are more on fight and flight, and then become those chronic things and et cetera. So lower vagus nerve tone means that you are have more probability to have in the burnout, in the, in the stressful situation for the longer and chronic period of time.

Okay. So it's not a matter of the nerves firing too fast, too slow. It's the overall conductive process. What happens if the nerve is at low tone state?

If it's low tone, it's a big probability that you will have higher heart rate. It means that your breath rate can be higher. For example, average breath rate is, uh, like 12-15 times per minute, like Breathe In and Breathe Out. If you have 20 plus, then automatically you have more thoughts running, you are more emotional, and etc. Comparing to the 6-7 breaths per minute, if you will slow down, you will see how relaxed you are. Then blood pressure could be higher. In that situation, you can have some kind of digestion problems because of it. Yeah. Because in order to, to make a good digestion, you need to release saliva, you need to relax, you know, and et cetera. So this kind of domino effect, you know, can be if the vagus nerve is slow. There are a lot of, let's say, areas starting from the heart rate, ending to the blood pressure, which can be affected by this.

So a product like Pulsetto, like your product, that's a stimulator. What does a stimulator do?

It's basically works like a booster.

A booster.

Because, yeah, because like I said, you can stimulate the vagus nerve even without boosters. For example, deep breathing exercises. Like I said, 12, 15 times is average breathe time, breathe in and breathe out time per minute. If you will decrease this tempo to 6, 7 times per minute, it means approximately 2 times lower breathe rate, you automatically will Relax. And by deep breathing, you're also activating some parts and some fibers of the vagus nerve. Cold showers, for example, also one of the ways how to activate the vagus nerve. Humming. It's a, hmm, sound. It's also, but the problem is, for example, with humming that you need to do this around 30 minutes in order to have some kind of effect. For example, with breathing exercises, it's not enough to breathe like 1 minute and then you are activated. So electricity is the faster time. It's like a booster, you know. So with electricity, you can do it in 3, 4 minutes. We have some problems with 10 minutes, let's say, and etc. But it's much faster than, let's say, to have a 20-minute meditation session and etc. So we are working as a booster. It's for the people who want fast effect.

So the humming brings to mind, you mentioned meditation, it's like the during meditation. I mean, it's probably a direct—

Exactly. Meditation is the perfect example of how meditation is working also on breathing and on the vagus nerve and etc. Just the problem with meditation, it seems very easy, yeah, that you need to sit down and meditate.

Sure.

To do nothing. But believe me, for example, a lot of our customers are buying Pulsetto because they have problems with meditation. They cannot meditate.

Yeah.

Because, you know, to meditate, you need special environment, dedication, practice, and etc. So they're buying this pulsator as a shortcut to the meditation, as a tool, you know, to relax and etc. So, but meditation in general is a perfect thing. Just you need to somehow master it.

Yeah. How does pulsator work then? You mentioned 3 to 4 minutes. How does it work?

So you're putting on the neck, you're switching on the button. And then on mobile app, because this device works with mobile app. So without mobile app, you cannot switch on the device, let's say. And the mobile app at this moment, you can choose from 5 stimulation programs. Those stimulation programs differ in, let's say, amplitude, in voltage, in pulse wave, because the electric signal is based on specific algorithm, which is based on my previously mentioned parameters like amplitude, voltage, pulse width, pulse wave. So we have 5 stimulation programs and you're choosing stimulation program and then you can regulate intensity of stimulation because what you feel, you feel like small needles on your skin, you know, this kind of tingling feeling, let's say, on the skin. So some people want stronger feeling, some people want, let's say, not so strong feeling, so they can regulate intensity and that's it. So the shortest program is 4 minutes. And the longest program is 30 minutes, and we are suggesting to do it twice a day. So from, let's say, 8 minutes to 1 hour, depend on your situation, depend on your, let's say, condition.

So you were saying it's, uh, you recommend anywhere from 4 minutes to 30 minutes and 5 modalities depending on what you're trying to address or treat.

Yeah.

Okay. Okay. And as you pictured it, people can't see it on the screen, but It looks like a, almost a headset, headphones.

Yeah.

That you wear on your neck with smaller pads on your neck.

Yes.

And it gets that sensation of a tingling or maybe you can feel needles.

Yes.

And what are the 5 conditions that it's meant to treat?

So the 5 conditions is stress, anxiety, burnout, sleep, and pain management. Especially we are talking about joint pain because there are some studies that it helps with this condition. By the way, why we chose neck? Because the nerve is very active on the neck region. Around 80% of vagus nerve fibers are on the neck. And by the way, also the nerve is very active on the ear region. But for example, on the ear, it connects only around 40% of fibers. So the neck region has 2 times more fibers comparing to the ear. So neck is probably the best location. This is not most comfortable location because neck sizes are very different. Believe me, in the world. But it's most accurate and let's say especially near sleep artery. The vagus nerve has very big branch of it. So it's one of the best places to put electric signal, you know, and activate it.

Okay. So that sounds like a very effective approach. And as you say, people want— there are other ways to achieve this improved tone of the vagus nerve. This can be very effective and maybe a little faster. So who are good candidates for this product? Who is it recommended for? I mean, 5 modalities, but who are the best candidates?

At this moment, when we see to— we are talking with our customers and we are making surveys of our customers. So what I can say, around 40% of people, they have insomnia, problems with sleep. So this is probably the first big group of people because there are a lot of people who have sleep issues. And mainly one of the sleep issues, uh, let's say one of the reasons why people have sleep issues is stress. It's high stress and these running thoughts and etc. So in general, people with stress, people with poor sleep, it's a big population, but it's like a super big audience for us. Also, what we see from our last 1,000 customers that 37% of people are 55+, which for me, bit surprised, but it's older people. And there are a lot of niche, uh, audiences. For example, now I even spoke with several women after menopause, because especially after this period, they had this hot flashes, those very strong sympathetic nervous system, which means that they cannot relax. So easily. So this period after menopause is very, very specific. This could be a very strong group. Also, for example, now we are testing our device with Bechterew disease. It's a very rare disease, but related with the joint pain. So the first results is very positive that people with joint pain, they have quite better, let's say, and less amount of pain, especially in the morning. Those Bechterew disease people, they have various strong pain in the morning. So this could be very interesting. And in general, uh, now more and more publications are speaking that vagus nerve stimulation can work because it's participating also in the inflammation pathway and immunity system. So, uh, those people who have some kind of chronic inflammations and etc., or want to strengthen the immune system, this is also could be a very helpful, uh, tool. But majority, let's say, customer from our side, it's It's related with stress, with sleep problems. And basically, sadly, it's every third of us.

Hmm.

Statistic, every third of us have some issues with anxiety, with sleep, with high stress.

I'm sure a lot of overlap from one group to another. It's not like they're exclusive groups. So if you have sleep problems, there's likely to be some stress or anxiety or back pain. So it's, it's, there's a lot of overlap.

Yeah, there are, for example, 3 main reasons why people wake up in the middle of the night and they cannot, um, go to sleep. One reason is the, um, sound. I mean, for example, especially those who are living, I don't know, in New York and etc., it's a lot of noise around. The second reason is partner, so it means he's waking up you. Uh, and the third, but the biggest reason, is the stress. So you're waking up in the middle of the night because your mind is starting to run, you know, the thoughts are like crazy and etc. So I mean, if you can deal with stress somehow, especially before the sleep in the evening, you know, it's a, it's a very important because stress or in other words cortisol, it's an antagonist or the enemy of the melatonin. Melatonin is hormone of darkness, of relaxation, but if you have cortisol, Cortisol in the evening, it's not allowing to produce enough melatonin. So I mean, even on the hormone side, it's very, very clear that if, for example, you want to increase level of melatonin, you need to reduce the cortisol because this is one of the enemies of melatonin. And also the light is also other enemy. But even in the darkness, if you have super stressful evening, it can be problem for the sleep.

Yeah, it can overpower the, the melatonin level. So for the person that's applying the Pulsetto for sleep problems, they still just use it during the day, right? It's not needed to sleep.

You don't sleep with it on. You wear it for, like I said, it's like 4 minutes or 30 minutes up to your condition, twice per day we are recommending. So it means 8 minutes, 1 hour. But you can hold it. This is the, the best part. That you don't need special environment or special dedication. You can put this device and you can speak with, with your colleagues. You can work, you can play with your children, you can watch television and at the same time stimulate the vagus nerve. But you don't need to wear it for all night. No, okay, no, just for a couple of minutes, you know, just to relax. If you will combine it with some breathing exercises, it will be even better, you know. It could be like a double effect, you know what we see. It's creating some synergy effect. So just, you know, it's a tool, it's a reminder to take a timeout. Because we as the people, we are always running, running, running, running, running somewhere. And then we are thinking, oh, maybe in the old days when I will be in the retirement, then I will stop and while I enjoy my life. Yeah, but in reality, it's like in basketball, sometimes you need to take a timeout. And basically in basketball, when you're taking a timeout, it's not about changing the strategy, it's just to waking up you, you know, as a player, you know, get rid of emotions, let's be practical, you know. So yeah, with us sometimes we need to take a timeout, reset ourselves, you know, and etc. So this, I believe that this, it's the biggest, biggest, biggest value of this, that it helps person to take a time, at least 2 minutes per day, you know, to focus on yourself, to put the device on, take a deep breath, and that's it. It can be very powerful only on this, you know, the situation, just to relax and reset yourself.

And when we come back after that timeout, we're better, we're more effective, our thoughts are clearer, stress is down, so we're more creative. And, uh, I agree that taking that time away from the applied work, computer work, writing, whatever we're doing, it's, uh, it's very therapeutic. It's very helpful. It reduces the stress. So the Pulsetto helps as another approach to doing that. Yeah.

But like I said, there are also other ways, you know, you, you, you can do running, you, you can do cold shower.

I like that. I like that. I don't know about cold showers, but I, so that's the reason behind the cold showers. I mean, I've heard people recommend, I think Tony Robbins always recommends cold showers too. And I, I can't quite buy that, but there's probably some link here, right? With the vagus nerve.

Exactly.

Effect. Yeah.

Even if you're putting the water on your face, cold water on your face, it's also good. So it's like an alternative for those who are afraid to go to the cold bath. You know, you just can put the water on the neck, but the nerve is quite, like I said, quite active. So this could be alternative.

So let me ask you about, um, I know here in the US we have FDA. Are these stimulators FDA approved? Are there similar organizations in Europe?

Not yet. We have FCC. It's a certification for US that this is safe and it's on the Bluetooth level, on EMF level, it's low, you know, this electromagnetic frequencies, but it's not yet FDA. FDA means that it's a medical device, but in order to be medical device, you need to have clinical trials. Those clinical trials are quite costly and etc., but we are step by step on this process. Still, we are startup, so we need time, we need data. We have several studies here in Europe. And now, like I said, we are working with this bacterial disease patients, with the blood pressure patients. So sooner or later we will go to this FDA, but usually FDA takes like 3 years. And there are a lot of, by the way, devices who don't have FDA and even not planning to have FDA. We are planning, we, we want, because the vagus nerve has so many possible benefits that, you know, we really want this device really help people and we can claim. Because now, for example, we can do some positive effect for some specific diagnosis, but we cannot claim this. Sure. We cannot advertise this. So, you know, we need to be patient in this also.

Yeah, you have the positive reports, the surveys, the anecdotal stories. So that's one thing, but the whole other outcomes research is a different—

Exactly.

Different ballgame. So are there any risks? Are there any adverse effects found from using these stimulators?

Yeah, but first of all, we are not recommending for the pregnant people this device. Other thing, we are not recommending this device for the guys who have implants. So if you have some kind of implant, it can be some contradictions with this metals and etc. So it's better then to talk with, with your doctor about this. And the biggest, let's say, side effect which can be, it's a redness on the skin, but this redness of the skin is disappearing usually. Because you need to understand that there are some, for example, muscle stimulators. The name is TENS, yeah? Which is, uh, TENS stimulators, which you can buy, I believe, in the drugstore or somewhere, you know, without any recipe and etc. These muscle stimulators are usually used in some rehabilitation, for example, after injury, after some kind of trauma and etc. So the feeling is similar. Those stimulation also creating some kind of tingling and etc. Just in case of TENS devices, they are going to the muscle level. So the signal is much smaller, let's say. We are going to the nerve level. So we need deeper signal, bigger voltage, higher amplitude, and et cetera. So that's why those redness of the skin can sometimes appear, but usually it's like a 1 from 100 cases. Those redness are disappearing quite fast.

Mm-hmm. And the TENS stimulator is really, a direct action wherever the muscle is, right? I mean, aren't they applied where the injury was or where the pain is?

Yeah, usually TENS, for example, let's say, like, quad muscles are really atrophying, you know, so atrophy of those muscles. So I remember the TENS stimulator just was trying to cover the memory of the muscles and etc. So it was like applied directly to the muscle, which is, let's say, a little bit disappeared because of the trauma and this Yeah, let's say laying down regime.

So these products are available and the Pulsetto is available for sale. You have a website, how can people purchase the Pulsetto?

Yeah, we are selling quite big volumes. We even sold out at this moment, so we are just getting additional stock and etc. By the way, we're manufacturing everything here in Europe, not in China. This is maybe not so effective from the point of costs, but we can control quality. We are assembling everything in our country, so the customers can or via our website. It's pulsetto.tech, or you can find also us on Indiegogo. Indiegogo is quite popular. It's like Kickstarter. It's just a smaller. So Indiegogo, you can just look Indiegogo Pulsetto and you can find us. You can find even real user comments. There is discussion where people are asking questions. They are giving us feedback and etc. So we already sold more than, 1, 1, 1.3 thousand, uh, pieces through the only Indiegogo platform. So Indiegogo, Pulsator, you probably will find some link which will lead to our set. So there is two official, let's say, ways how you can buy our product.

Sure. Can you share the cost? Can you tell our audience what the cost is?

Yes, the cost is €239. In, in dollars now it's around $259.

Good number. So we're just about out of time. Vitalyus, what's the takeaway? What would you like our audience to remember from our conversation?

I believe the main message, which I probably repeated several times, that I really wish you to take a timeout sometimes, to slow the tempo. Doesn't matter where you are, who you are, what kind of job you are doing, what kind of problems you have. You just need sometimes, I believe, to reset yourself, to take a timeout at least once, twice per day, you know, just to stop a little bit.

Stop. Yeah.

And slow down, take a deep breath, just zoom out, let's say, not, not always and being present, you know. So this is, I think, the skill which I want to introduce to myself more and more. I'm trying to do it, but I'm really trying to do it more and more, you know, during the day. And it's really helping. It's really helping for the creativity, for the productivity, and etc. So I really wish that you will have more and more time for yourself and just those several, let's say, timeouts and dedication, dedicated time for yourself. So this is main message for you.

Yeah, thank you. That's a good message. That's good advice. We all need to remember that. Slow down, stop a little bit. Well, it looks like we're out of time, but before I wrap up, I just want to remind my listeners to visit the club website, livingto100.club. Sign up for my email list and download a free copy of my 9 Tips to Make Living Longer Enjoyable. You also see an option to contact me with questions and comments. I welcome your feedback. Finally, be sure to subscribe to this series as a premium member so you don't miss any episodes, maybe the episode that could seriously affect your decisions or your outlook. Sign up at livingto100.club. Supercast.com. Vitalius, thanks so much for being a guest on our show today. For those who might want to contact you, how can they do that? Can they go to the pulsetto.tech website?

Yeah, you, you can write me vitalius@pulsetto.tech. It's an email. You can find me on LinkedIn if you're using. I'm not using Twitter, but I am using Facebook. So also write me an email. So I will try to answer all your questions. Pulsetto.tech. You're very good. You need to write two Ts. So pulsetto is with two Ts.

Oh, two Ts. Okay, good. Good point. Thank you. pulsetto.tech. Well, thanks again. Thanks to everyone for listening to our program today. Hope to see you next time.

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