Don’t Sweat 60: Age-defying Workouts for Seniors

Welcome to the Living to 100 Club Podcast. Here's our host, Dr. Joseph Casciani.

Greetings to everyone joining us today for today's podcast. You're listening to the Living to 100 Club, and I'm your host, Joseph Casciani. You can find this conversation and all past conversations on our website, livingto100.club. In addition to my podcasting, I'm a public speaker and I present to community organizations and senior groups on topics related to aging well and managing setbacks. And on my website, you'll see options to sign up for one-on-one resilience coaching for anyone wanting more personal time to talk. I also provide consulting and training on clinical topics like depression and dementia. Now to our podcast where we discuss successful aging, staying positive, and making more informed decisions. Our guest for today is Matt Scheckner. Matt will share his personal training method developed after, uh, harrowing spinal surgery and his journey to, quote, "beat the brace." He wanted more out of life than to be in a brace for the rest of his life. Before we get into our conversation, here's a little bit more on Matt. At age 13, Matt had a tumor that was so large it forced his spine into a dangerous lateral curve. A doctor at New York's Hospital for Special Surgery performed the surgery and they put Matt in a full torso cast for a year and then wanted to put him in an upper body brace for the rest of his life. He refused to do it. After repeated back and forth between his mother and his doctor, Matt resolutely told them, "There has to be another way." That started Matt's journey in fitness and to beat the brace. Matt now devotes his life to inspiring people and teaching them what he's learned to be able to build his body to beat the brace and to be in top shape at 60 years old. He also performs fitness events for charity, including doing 1,000 pull-up events with all proceeds going to Food for the Hungry. Matt, welcome to our program. Glad to have you with us today.

Thank you. Thank you for having me. Grateful to be here.

Great, great. I always like to begin our podcast by asking our guests to tell us briefly about the journey that brought you to where you are today. I read a little bit about your background, but kind of give us a synopsis, a quick picture of the whole journey that you took.

Yeah, it was, um, I mean, it's interesting how things can work for good, and I was grateful in this case because I was in so much pain. I never stopped complaining. My poor mother, I was misdiagnosed twice, and then she finally took me to the New York Hospital for Special Surgery where they discovered it.. And the doctor was incredibly gracious, now that I look back, to allow me to have it, take that kind of a risk, to give me that kind of a chance. But I, I took the opportunity to learn everything I could about fitness and train as hard as possible. And just, I learned a lot about patience too. You have to keep persevering, you know, because a lot of times I just wanted to give up and it wasn't seeing results because, I mean, my, my elbow was wider than the rest of my arm. I was so emaciated after the surgery.

Wow. Yeah, yeah, well, you're right. Perseverance and tenacity, that's the key, because we do get knocked down a lot and we have to get back up. So tell us about the— you had the surgery, you had the tumor removed, and you were given this prognosis. Tell us about the torso, full torso cast that you were in after surgery. What was that like for you?

Oh, that, you know, it's so funny, it seems like it was yesterday. I can never forget that. Um, it was, it was pretty suffocating. I mean, it was, it was from my chin down to my hips, and it was awful in the heat of the summer. All right, you know, just when it was warm and being still being in school, the kids weren't exactly nice. Kids, I'd be out on the playground, they'd be throwing rocks at me. It was really brutal, you know, because you look like such a— you look strange and people don't really get it. Then after 6 months, um, they cut the sides so I could get out at night when I slept, but I had to go back in it again the next morning all day. Yeah. So it was awful for sure.

But yeah. Yeah. So that got removed. And then you were advised to wear this full body brace the rest of your life. And that's what caused you to rethink, you and your mother, to rethink this whole prognosis. And you weren't ready for that. You didn't want to settle for that. Yeah.

And she was very upset with me because she said, who are you to argue with the doctor? This is the New York Hospital for Special Surgery. You know, you're 13 years old. Who are you to argue with the doctor? But I was not. I was respectful. But I was just adamant. There was no way. I thought there had to be, there has to be another way, and I wasn't going to concede to that without every avenue being exhausted. So, and then he mentioned that fitness was just coming into favor in rehab circles. This was 1973. So, you know, to my amazement, when I think about it now as an adult, he said you can try it. I mean, think about the risk on that man's end because what happened to him, you know, how people sue people. So, um, I was very grateful for that opportunity.

So that was an option for you, the rehab track. But how old were you at the time?

I was 13, and there was no option for therapy at the hospital. I had to do it all on my own. So he just pretty much sent me out with a— he gave me a piece of paper with some abdominal exercises on it. I remember even laughing at it back then, thinking, boy, this isn't going to do it. I'm going to go a lot further than this. So I just, again, got a hold of everything I could get a hold of. So I could learn what to do.

Okay, so that's what— I mean, whatever that was inside of you, and you said to yourself, look, I've got to learn more about this. Maybe there are other— maybe I have other options. And your mother was saying, don't be so defiant of the medical plan, but you're saying, no, there's got to be another way. So where did that— where did that come from? Where did that desire, that motivation, that fire— where did that come from?

I just imagine it was the way I was made. I thank God for that. And it's— I think, but I think also it built it a lot more. It grew a lot from the experience because I had so many setbacks and it was so hard because I was so incredibly weak and thin and all the taunting you get and everything else. But so that just grew it even more. I think it made me a more tenacious person for sure.

Sure, sure, yeah, and that stayed with you. I can see that, that whole tenacity, that stayed with you. So what did you do to build your strength back up? What do— how did you— what were the exercises you, you learned about to, to build your, your body back up?

Well, I focused largely on core to start, and that's still a very staple and foundational thing in my training. I think core is really the essence of our body's stability and especially your back. But then I was, as I continue to learn, I realized the whole body needs to be strong to work together as a unit, the legs, the hips. So, and of course, every young man wants to build his chest and his arms. And so it started to grow more and more and become more of a total training package for me. But starting really primarily with focusing on the core.

Core meaning what, your abdomen, your—

My abdominals, my low back muscles. Yeah. And I did the exercises he gave me first, and they seemed too easy even at the beginning, and I was looking for more advanced things. And that's what I tell people too, start where you're at and work your way up to continually advancing. The body will adapt and get stronger and just keep giving it a little more each time.

Yeah. So are these the same exercises that you do today?

Pretty much, pretty similar. Yeah, it's interesting how there's also, there's only so many you can do But the basic ones are still the best, and that's something I've learned from all these years of training. So yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. So how are you spending your time currently? Do you have clients? Do you have a fitness studio, or how do you work professionally?

I have my own massage therapy practice. I specialize in medical-type massage, and I work with clients, and I also tell them what they've how they've arrived at where they are, what they could do to help prevent it in the future, give them corrective exercise advice. I will meet them in the gym if, um, I always offer that option. Then also I'm working on promoting my online bodybuilding on Instagram and with my website and trying to promote my books.

Sure.

And go speak.

So, um, let's shift a little bit to older adults and how does your program impact the older adult? Are there some unique adjustments or changes on the— we'll say 50 and over, that's not older adults anymore— but are there some adjustments that the 50 and over population need to make?

Yes, absolutely. I was very, very fortunate that when I was at Arizona State, there was a gentleman who was a grad student at ASU in my dorm who was studying his PhD on sports psychology, but he was teaching physical conditioning classes on campus. And he saw that I was into bodybuilding, and he recommended that I come work with him. He taught me the method that I'm doing now, which is really, I think, the essence of what's kept me training so well. So I feel like I'm 20 still. And the secrets in that, I call it the age-defying workout because it has certain elements that I know you would probably, I'm sure, agree with that are key. It's interesting because it's just as impactful for young people. For older people, it will allow them to keep getting stronger and allow them to keep training and getting— reaching their full potential without injury. For a young person, it will do the same, but it will also prevent what's going to happen in the future, because if they're training incorrectly, they're starting the process for degeneration, arthritic changes, and things later they may not see until later. But an older person will notice it right away that they're able to train very hard, very comfortably, and see progress and be injury-free. And that's the best part.

So the age-defined workout— I like that. Can you describe that a little bit? What's involved?

Well, it started with Arthur Jones, the inventor of Nautilus, and then certain people have He also had a branch of his training called Super Slow, and then other people had taken that, his disciples, and made it into a whole system. And that's really the key element is the speed of the motion when you go very slowly. In the book I recommend, what they recommended when I originally learned it is 10 seconds moving out or the positive part of the movement and 5 seconds going back or the negative part of the movement. That eliminates momentum, and that's what really hurts the joints. And it preserves the joints and the body. You can train as hard as you like, extremely low risk of injury. And that's, that's the beauty of it. And then what you do is you, you add a little bit of weight slowly at a time as people get stronger. You don't give them too much too soon or they'll get hurt really at any age.

So slower is better.

Yeah, that's the key. It really is. Again, eliminating momentum, that's the most destructive thing to the joints. The yanking, the pulling, the jerking. Jumping, things like that really wear the joints out fast.

Nautilus started with their rower, didn't they? Am I recalling that correctly?

Yeah, they— well, they were amazing because Arthur Jones actually did 25 years of research before he built the machines. He built them around his theories. He was quite a genius. He invented the first rotary exercises that muscles working in a rotary motion, like a pullover with circular rotary motion. He also invented variable resistance, where it follows your strength curve and the resistance gets harder as you get stronger, working the muscle more effectively and maximally. He was truly amazing. So I'm grateful for him. Yeah.

Yeah. So you've adopted, you, you follow that model and you, this Age-Defying Workout. I appreciate that because it's making those adjustments. I mean, we're not going to start exercising in our 60s or 70s like we would in our 20s or 30s, but you have clients that would maybe be 50 and over and you're helping them, because you have to take into account other limitations, right? Maybe some arthritis or maybe balance problems or a lot of medical conditions that might be present. You have to make those adjustments, I take it, right?

Yes. And that's where people need good advice on a personal level when they are training, because there's certain ranges that you need to stay out of if you have certain injuries. And a good, a good qualified trainer will know that to keep you out of certain ranges, depending on what's going on, what pathologies you might have. But again, it's interesting because people need to really have hope and really rethink things. I've had a gentleman I was training one time, he was 82 years old. He was on the Nautilus seated row and he was pulling in the seated row at 10 seconds in and 5 seconds back, 110 pounds. He was doing it that slow. Now you figure when you go that slow, you have to usually half the weight that you use. This man was amazing. He was doing proper breathing. He never got hurt. He felt great. His arms looked amazing. And it was funny, I never forgot, I asked him, I said, what are you gonna do What are you going to do after this? That it's your workout. And he goes, I'm going to go play 18 holes.

There you go.

But he went all the way to total momentary muscular failure with 110 pounds on a row. And the research shows that people even in their 80s can make up to 200% strength increases, just as long as it's, you know, not too much too soon and let the body adapt as you build up.

So what— can you give us the kind of the range of exercises that you're recommending? These are 30-minute, 60-minute sessions, or tell us what goes in, what goes into each session.

That's a great question because it shows just how far Arthur Jones was ahead of the field because he was talking about high-intensity, low-duration, you know, short workouts, low, less frequency, 50 years ago. Now research is really showing that you really don't need to train as long as people think, as long as it's intense enough. A lot of the workouts are 15 minutes. The average workout in my book that people do is 30 minutes start to finish, warm-up, and cool down. So really, that's about all people need to do to reach maximal results.

And it's not daily anymore, right? It's maybe every other day to allow some recovery time?

Yeah, strength training is different than cardio in that way. With strength training, yes, you can do, you know, every other day. You're actually tearing the muscle down, but in a positive way, and then it will build itself back up, but it needs time to do that. So yeah, you know, every other day, Some protocols are even twice a week only. And then I tell people they can do cardio in between. Going for walks is my favorite recommendation because of the low-impact nature of it. It is also so good psychologically. You know, you get out and outside and, you know, you are communing with nature and such like that. It gives you time to think. So, that is a good one, or you can do it inside on cardio equipment. That will speed up the process of losing weight and being in shape. So, I recommend that in between. People can do that as often as they want.

Yeah, equipment like a treadmill.

Well, also, like you said, it depends on if they have a condition that might prevent them from doing that. If they have really bad knees or hips, for instance, they may rather use an upright bike, which is a lot easier on them, or an elliptical or something like that.

Yeah, yeah. So briefer sessions and less frequent. I, I like the sound of that. I was, I was talking with someone earlier this week who talked about kind of muscle building and strength, and he was saying the same thing. It's the, the benefit of the high-intensity shorter, fewer interval sessions make, make good sense, and they tend to be more effective. Yeah.

Yes. And the body needs time to recuperate. They're finding especially the nervous system takes longer to recover, and it's longer than people think. So many people are overtraining, and, you know, also affects their hormone levels. You want to keep things like cortisol low, so we don't want to overdo it.

Sure. So, uh, they're safe, I take it? I mean, your, your programs, uh, you do some, uh, assessment initially to see if there are any other physical limitations, and they're safe for, for seniors. So this is incorporated in your book, Don't Sweat 60, is that, is that right?

Yes, I have the exercises broken into two sections, one for people that want to work out at home, and you just, you hardly need any equipment, very, very minimal amount of equipment you need, um, and then people that want to work out in a gym, so they can follow either one. And I always tell people, if they have questions, please contact me on the website or through my Instagram. I'll be happy to talk to them and help them, uh, be able to implement these things.

Yeah. And your website is—

yeah, it's don'tsweat60.com, and the Instagram is don'tsweat60 as well.

don'tsweat60.com. And you have programs for home exercise as well as people in the gym?

Yeah, yeah. In the book, the book has two different sections that have in-home training. I list circuits from beginning to advanced. And, uh, and again, if people have questions about like, I have a certain injury, or this or that, can "Can I do this?" I'd be happy to help them. 'Cause you brought up a really good point. You wanna make sure that you know what limitations you have so you can work around them. And then also start with the correct fitness level. So anybody can do it. It just depends on what their fitness level is. We had a gentleman come in one time, 50 years old, lifetime smoker. He was terrified of the gym and we couldn't get him to work out. He just wanted to leave. And he said, "I can't do anything." It was really, you know, I understand it. We were very compassionate with him and we said, "Hey," How about 30 seconds on the bike? And he barely could do it because he was so out of breath. He did it every day. He came in, he did 30 seconds, and we started to add 30 seconds each time. After a while, he was riding for 30 minutes. He was sweating in a good way. He loved it. We had to build him up and start where he was at. You got to start people where they're at. And then anybody— that's the great part— anybody can do it. As long as they start where they're at.

Yeah, I like the way you describe that because it is in small increments. I mean, small steps. And let's not look for big goals or major changes. Let's look for maybe a minute more than we did yesterday, or, you know, look at small goals because those are the ones where we're going to see some return without burning us out or, you know, causing us to throw our hands up and say, I can't do this. The small goals, the small steps, turtle steps as they say. Yeah, I like that.

Yeah, I like that Japanese notion of kaizen, you know, and that's something we need to adopt here in the West to really incorporate that into our thinking. That's what really works. It builds a more solid foundation, a safer foundation. It's psychologically better and more adaptable. It makes really good sense, and we need to embrace that because a lot of times in this country we want things right away.

So tell us about the kaizen principle. What is that?

Yeah, they originally adopted that as a business method too, to get the most out of their people, to have them reach their total potential. But it's really about small steps, just like you said. And, you know, and you start where you're comfortable at and you work your way up. And that's— it's a great philosophy too, because it's very realistic. It doesn't put too high of an expectation on a person that they think, well, I'm not there, I'm not at this endpoint that I want to envision, so I'm going to give up. You know, I want people to focus on, don't you know how much better you're going to feel, how much more of your risk of disease is reduced. Don't you feel better already? They'll say, yes, you know, I do, I noticed that. So start where we're at, don't worry about later, those things will develop in time, you know, new goals and things.

Yeah, yeah. I'm curious what your thoughts are on motivation, people that might have some motivational problems, maybe they start out gung-ho and they get discouraged or they're not seeing any response or they're not seeing any progress. That's got to be big. I mean, I'm thinking that's just got to be a huge barrier for people to pursue this, this line of fitness. How do you understand that? How do we, how do we get our arms around that? And how do we, how do we approach people that has, you know, has that kind of weak motivation?

Yeah, I try to, I try to want them to be motivated by things like I tell them, don't worry about your weight, don't worry about things like that, just enjoy the feeling, how good you feel. The quality of life that you'll experience will be improved. Like, you can go, you can be with your grandkids more. You won't go so tired at the end of the day. You start to notice these little things. They're huge. I want them to see just how big those things are and also how much they're, like I mentioned a few minutes ago, their incidence of disease will be way reduced. To think about where they were and where they are now. A lot of times what happens is people are thinking so far ahead, they don't, they forget where they started. Like, remember when you started and your back was in so much pain you couldn't even stand up straight? But now you can. So, it is like appreciating all the little steps and not seeing them as anything small. They are big. They are major. I get so excited when people come back and say, "Hey, you did it for a month. That is awesome. It is great." You know, so I think that that kind of encouragement is really good. That is why I want to be there for people. I love to dialogue with them. If they want to email me and ask me questions, I want to help them stay encouraged. Accountability is a big part of that. So, I am willing to help them in that way to encourage them. The other thing is people need to realize is You want to have realistic goals and expectations, but also a lot of times people don't make their— they don't succeed because they're either not training consistently enough, or they're not training hard enough, or they're not doing it correctly. So I have to make sure those, those pillars of the foundation are there, because if they— sometimes people like, well, I'm doing all this and it's not working, but then you find out they really weren't doing it, or maybe they weren't eating like they're telling you. So we need to also be realistic about, like, what does work. One of the problems is, you know, people are bombarded with things in the media that some are really good and some aren't. Some are not true. And, you know, lose 30 pounds in 30 days. You know, you see all these things, and they warned us about that at school when we graduated, how it's going to be so money motivated. People need to realize, you know, what the body can give up in terms of fat. Not very much. You know, maybe half a pound max a week. They taught us about quarter pound a week, but a pound of fat is an enormous amount. So if a person loses a pound, that's a, that's a lot of fat. So they should be really excited about that, and I want them to see that as well.

Yeah, to visualize how they'll feel in a week or a month or a year, to help them kind of create that, that image, that visualization that they're going to be in a better place. I'm more, I'm kind of wondering about the person who's maybe 65, 75 and says, look, I've never done any exercise, it's not for me. What do you say to that person? I'm too old, I'm too old to start.

Favorite. That's my, oh, that's my ultimate passion because at now at 61, I was like, that's what's so great about getting older. You really get people's attention. They're like, wait a minute, maybe you can do it. I want them to be again incredibly excited about, I want them to have the facts first so they know that it is all on their side in terms of science and everything else. They can do it. Again, it is meeting them where they are at. If you give them too much, they are going to get very discouraged or incredibly sore or maybe injured. So, when they have success and they actually go through the workout and they felt good, it wasn't too much, maybe they got a little sore but not that bad, that is a huge encouragement right there because they will see, "Hey, I did." I want them, again, it is like I want them to realize that is no small thing. You made it here. I will even get excited, "Hey, you made it here." You know, thank you. Great, that's a big thing that you actually came, you know, and then you actually made it through the workout. See it, see how you can do it. Start to show them they actually can do it, and it's a big deal. Every little step of the way is a big deal. So, realizing that, then people aren't thinking too far ahead, which helps with discouragement issues as well.

Yeah, yeah, I think you're right when you talk about the expectations. We We're bombarded with all of this advice and tips and strategies and all these quick fix solutions. And those are the expectations that can backfire, right? I mean, we have these grand goals and they're not going to happen. That's how we get tripped up. So I like the way you're saying it, as you talk to somebody, just to help them, you know, hear what they have to say, hear what their resistance is, or maybe what their concern or what their doubts are and not try to fix them immediately, but just kind of hear them out and say, oh, look, let's consider this. How about 30 seconds on the bike? Yeah, that conversation is what really takes somebody to change behavior.

Yes, absolutely. And again, it's, I want them to see that there's no, all the steps are not insignificant. And that when they see they can actually do it, it's very exciting to see. And to see people change, to see the results. I've had people come in, this one woman came in her back, was so bad and she could hardly do any of the abdominal work. She was still laying down on a bench, she could hardly lift her legs with her knees bent. She got to the point where she got so strong she could lift her hips off the bench. I had to put a resistive tubing around it and tie it.

Wow.

But see, I wanted her to realize each step of the way, do you remember when you couldn't even lift your legs? Yeah, you could barely just do one at a time. Now you're lifting them both every step of the way. That's an amazing big difference, and I want them to see that. That's very special. And then each step of the way, uh, we just keep doing the same thing, celebrating each landmark.

Yeah, that's good. It's a good way to put it. We're also changing our image, our self-image. We're kind of redefining ourselves. I'm, I'm not who I was yesterday. I'm new. And we can't define ourselves by how we, you know, how we acted last month or last year. And don't let yesterday define who we are today. So someone like that, or you're helping, you know, kind of let go of where, where she was in the past and now be open to some, some new ways and creating that new image. I think that's, that's really good. Yeah.

They have to first believe that someone that's older can do it and can do it safely. And they really have to do that. I love what you said about that, and I love the quote, you know, the person who lives in the past loses their path, you know, and it's— we don't— we definitely don't want to be doing that. It's very hard to get out of that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tell me about the charity events. 1,000 pull-ups? I mean, is that true?

Yes, and you know, it's the same principle. The method that I invented with that, that I put in the book, is the same thing. It's a kaizen-type method. You do what you can Let your body rest a second, maybe do one more, rest, maybe do one more. Very gradually build up. So I, I built up to it over the years where I got to the point where I could do 2,000 in one workout. And it's just, again, it's just building up slowly to doing more and more and more.

Wow. But well, good for you. Gold stars for that. That's—

I really believe that what you— everybody has a passion and they should develop that and do what they love, but do it for a good reason, do it for a good cause. And that's where the peace and the joy that people seek is going to come from.

And it's inside all of us, right? Absolutely. No one is missing that, that drive, that fire. It's inside all of us. I firmly believe that.

I believe that everybody has a special gift and purpose for being here, and they need to realize that.

Yeah, yeah, it's locked away. It gets blocked sometimes, it gets covered up, but it's always there. So what would you like our audience to take away from this conversation today, Matt?

I want them to believe and be excited about the fact that they can do it. They can, I think about that with all of their goals, but we're talking specifically about fitness and health. You really can make an unbelievable difference in the quality of your life and how you look and feel and again, what you'll have to face in terms of disease and to have that positive attitude that really will make a major difference and you can do it no matter what your physical condition is. And that again, you just have to build up slowly to get there, but I want them to be excited I want them to be hopeful and then give them the tools. That's the best part. So they can actually initiate it and be there along the way with them.

Yeah.

That's what I like.

Great advice. Great advice. You're there in the background, but people can do it. They have to take the initiative and they can do it.

Yeah. Yes, they can.

Yeah. Well, it looks like we're out of time for today, but before we wrap up, I just wanna remind our listeners about a co-sponsor for our program. A Mighty Good Time. Are you looking for ways to engage and stay active? Check out amightygoodtime.com. It's a one-stop shop for events and activities for those 50 and over. It's free to search and it's free to post. Amightygoodtime.com. And be sure to visit the Living to 100 Club website to sign up for weekly podcast announcements and monthly newsletters. And while you're there, be sure to download a free copy of my 9 Tips for Living Longer. Lastly, pick up a copy of my book, Living Longer Is the New Normal, all about maintaining a positive mindset in all we do. It's available on Amazon in ebook or hard copy. We've been talking today with Matt Scheckner. Matt, for those who might want to contact you, what's the best way to do that?

Oh, they can do it directly from our Contact Us page on the website. @dontsweat60.com. I also have a Gmail, which is dontsweat60@gmail.com. Either one is fine. And then people could even contact me through the Instagram, which is also Don't Sweat 60. And again, I want to be there with the people along the way in this process and help them and guide them. That's really what it's all about. And yeah, I want to be there.

And you can do this coaching online, telecoaching?

Yes, I have a function on the website too where if people want to sign up for sessions, I can do that with them. But if they also have questions, like, you know, they just, they just had some questions they want answered or a little bit of guidance, I'd be happy to do that through the email. But if they'd like me to do virtual training, I have that option on the website as well.

Great. Okay. So don'tsweat60.com, they can send you a message through your contact page and go from there. Yeah. Yeah, thank you. That's great. Thanks very much for being a guest on our program, and thanks to everyone for tuning in. Hope to see you next time.

Thank you very much for having me.

You're very welcome.

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