Environments that Foster Wellness with Lisa Cini

Welcome to the Living to 100 Club Podcast.

Well, hello to everyone joining us today on our podcast. You're listening to one of our Successful Aging episodes this month on the Living to 100 Club program, and I'm your host, Joe Casciani. Each week, our conversations educate and inspire, helping you get the best out of all the years we're given, regardless of what obstacles come our way. Our guest for this podcast is Lisa Sini. An environmental design expert who creates healthcare and private home settings that are conducive to wellness, engagement, and positivity. Her goals are to incorporate knowledge about longevity, interior design, and technological advances that collectively contribute to keeping our future brighter than our past for the older adult age group. What can be done to our homes that allow us to age in place and at the same time stay connected with our community? Lisa is also a respected expert on multigenerational living. How do multigenerational living settings benefit both the young and the old? This is an inspiring and entertaining conversation for our listeners. First, a little background. 7-time number 1 bestselling author Lisa M. Sini is an award-winning, internationally recognized designer and entrepreneur with more than 30 years experience developing senior living interiors, utilizing the latest technologies curated from around the globe. Her company, Mosaic Design Studio, is the nation's leading provider of design services for aging-in-place environments. Recently, she created the first-ever aging-in-place Airbnb living laboratory with over 50 vendor and design collaborators. Lisa's latest books are Boom: The Baby Boomers' Guide to Preserving Your Freedom and Thriving as You Age in Place and Hive: A Simple Guide to Multigenerational Living How Our Family Makes It Work. This is Lisa's personal account of how her family designed a home in which 4 generations lived together and led productive, happy, and healthy lives while dealing with Alzheimer's and dementia. She also has a docuseries on Amazon. She also has a docuseries on Amazon, Infinite Living Secrets of the Werner House. And Lisa and her daughter recently started their podcast, Aging in Place: Design with Style and Function. Lisa, welcome to our program today.

Thank you so much for having me.

You're very welcome. You've been a very busy professional. I can, I can detect that from your background.

Busy or crazy, I'm not sure.

Hard to know the difference sometimes.

It is, it is very hard.

I always like to open by asking our guests to give us the highlights of, of what brought you to where you are today. What, what stands out in your mind that brought you to this place today?

I, you know, I think that I'm surrounded by family that has longevity. And so my great-grandfather lived to 92. My grandparents on my father's side were 99 and 100. My grandmother who lived with us lived to 96. And all of them continued to grow and thrive. I don't ever remember them stopping learning or having conversations or contributing.

Wow. So that really planted the seeds for you in terms of looking at what, what's conducive to longevity.

What I, I, yeah, I think it does. And I think maybe a little bit, maybe I have a skewed perception because sometimes working in senior living, I see folks in their 70s and it seems like they're just like, I don't know, they, they don't feel like they can give anymore. And I think when you stop having purpose and you hang up your hat, so to speak, you do really start kind of slowing down and not being much of anything anymore.

Yeah. Yeah. It's really important to have some other ingredients to staying active and purpose and meaningful activities. So you've specialized in really creating, designing healthy environments for older adults. What are, what are some of the driving features of these environments?

I think the fundamentals are how do we increase independence and dignity? And when you do those things, you also increase freedom. And freedom's a little bit different than independence. Um, but if we can hit all 3 of those, it really changes how people perceive how they can age and contribute and still give back to life.

Sure.

So some examples, some examples would be, um, simple example is lighting. Um, I try to follow what I've created is the LOVE method. So it's light, optimize, visual, and ease. And lighting is one of the best and easiest things that you can do. You know, a 70-year-old requires 70 to 80% more light than an 18 to 20-something. And so if you can increase your light levels so that you can see at night, at dusk, when you're reading, you're not so fatigued. Have nightlights come on, censored lights, lighting, maybe underneath cabinets. Lighting underneath each stair or underneath your handrail, in your toilet, you know, anything that you can do to make your life easier. If you just think about it, like when you're in a movie theater and all of a sudden you walk in and it's pitch black, anybody of any age is trying to adjust and then you're fumbling around and you're not sure of your steps. If you want to be a little bit more sure-footed, adjust your lighting, get your glasses fixed. Some other things are, you know, get good insoles and get proper shoes. I see quite often we get a little bit lazy as we get older. I know I do. And then you have the soft slippers that you're not quite as, you know, assured on a step or in walking around. So utilizing basically the things that we already have, but tailoring them and tweaking them towards your best independence, I guess, tools that you can have.

Sure. I can see how the lighting, improved lighting really contributes to that sense of freedom and independence. We're not so tentative in our movements, and we know it takes so much longer to adapt to changes in lighting, going from light to dark and vice versa.

Most definitely.

What other, yeah, certainly the clothing that we wear that maybe have some assistive devices, but What else goes on in the environment that would help with our sense of freedom and dignity?

So some of it is, you know, there's some really cool furniture out that's really way too low and not easy to get in and out of. You know, you should try out the seating that you're getting into, or even if it's pieces that you've had for a long time, but now it's hard for you to get in and out of and upgrade to something new. It might have been that the foam in the seat broke down or that your mattress is a little tired. But anything that helps you to get in and out easily, not look like you're struggling, not be embarrassed when other folks are around, because the more that you move, the better off you are. You know, we often thought back in the day, I don't know if you remember or not, but they used to immobilize you when you had broken bones and that, and they'd put you up in some— my brother had, I think, some had something broken and he was in like a contraption. And now the first thing they do after you have knee surgery and hip surgery is they get you moving. And so the more that we can move, the better off we are, not only for arthritis, but also for our mental capability, because it moves the blood flow and it moves the lymph.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I, I agree. That's so important. I've seen some furniture now, like beds that will change their elevation. So it's higher when you're getting into bed and it lowers when you get out of bed. I think that's right. Might be the opposite, but it does adjust. So I can see where if you're sitting in a lounge chair and it's hard to get out of the chair, or it's an effort, we don't do it as often, right? We're kind of—

That's exactly right. You know, you might, you don't, you don't necessarily stand up anymore when someone comes into a room.

Sure.

You stop doing those things that you're like, ooh, I might get dizzy. I might not be able to do this well. And then the less you do it, the more difficult it becomes.

Yeah. So how about technology? We're seeing a lot of technological advances. Where does that come into the picture in helping to promote this independence?

That's an excellent question. So some of it is wearables. And wearables are those things that you might have, like a cell phone or hearing aid or glasses or a simple wearable. It doesn't always have to plug in. It could be a smartphone watch, anything that measures really what you're doing. I know that there's hearing aids out now that will take your pulse. They'll even look at your conversation and give you a score if you're not speaking with people enough. And say, hey, you need to reach out. They also can tell if you're a fall risk. So there's a lot of different wearables that you can have. No longer are people that are aging just held to the help I've fallen and I can't get up kind of, you know, digital health aid. You can have a patch on your arm that lasts about 14 days with a microneedle that can help you with your blood sugar.. And what they're finding is the more you measure, the more you can change your behavior and have better results. So anything that you can do to help change your mindset, like, oh, I need to get my steps in today. Oh, you know what? Uh, there's actually a scale that can tell you, you might not be very steady today. So you might decide not to go out in adverse weather conditions because it's a balance score and it's saying, you know what, you're not on your best game today. So maybe I decide to go for groceries tomorrow.

Wow. Yeah, I, I can appreciate that. The more feedback we have about our environment, the more we can adjust and regulate and kind of pay, pay attention to what's next. What, what are the next steps, literally?

And exactly, exactly. And you can also do this— it's not just wearables, but you can have technology that is smart flooring that could call 911 or a caregiver if you might fall. You can have sensor lighting that turns on as you get up out of bed. You can have basically personal assistance now for free with Google Home and Alexa. And you can say, hey Alexa, you know, wake me up tomorrow at 6:30 AM. Remind me to call the doctor. What's my, give me my medications that I'm supposed to take right now. You know, all kinds of great things where that used to be a hired person or a loved one doing that.

Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. Just to go back to that hearing aid, it can give us cues if we're not speaking enough or, you know, yeah, it's a communication score.

And they find, you know, loneliness is the number one killer in the United States for older adults. And so if you're not speaking enough, that means you're not, connecting with folks enough. And that's a critical metric to be measured on how to stay healthy and thrive.

Yeah. Well, you'd certainly love to know who determines not enough.

Well, I do think they have a male-female setting because women do, I don't know, like 100 times more words compared to a male.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, we'll leave that. That's an interesting concept. So yeah, all these devices, the smart environments, the smart settings. How does, I know you've worked a lot with residential settings, group homes, community settings. How does that differ from the private home? What are the extra variables that come into play?

And so in a private home, you mean like where you're living right now? There's no services. So there's a couple different things. There is aging in place, which means you're living in your own space. It could be anywhere. You could be on a cruise ship. You could be in your own apartment or condo or house. You could even be in independent living and age in place. That means that you're going to stay there and you're going to get tools or folks to help you when you start having issues. So that could be hearing aids, it could be sensors, it could be a height-adjustable toilet or bidet, cabinets that come down to you, anything all the way up to someone helping you with medications or changing your clothes and making meals for you and doing laundry. So really you can do all of that at your home in your private residence.

Mm-hmm.

Or you can do in a community setting, whether it's a residential assisted living, like 16 people or less, or independent living garden-style homes, assisted living. Now when you start getting into skilled nursing, it's because you've had a health issue. Maybe you've fallen or you've had surgery or something like that, or memory and Alzheimer's. That's a completely different thing. Um, the rest of 'em are really should be aging in place wherever you wanna do it.

Mm-hmm.

And getting the help that you need. Some people want to be around, uh, more of a group community and other people wanna, age in their neighborhood, in their home. And I would say it's a little bit easier to go into senior living because they have things already built in. In your own home, what you might want to do is get like a grab bar that's built into the toilet paper holder. You might want to get some sensor lighting. You might want to get a Ring telephone camera for your doorbell so you can see who's at the door before you answer it. So there's a bunch of little tiny technologies for your own home to help you. And the cool thing about that is that you can actually add these as you need them. You don't need to do everything at once. Everybody's like, I don't have $5,000. Well, a toilet paper holder that has a grab bar is about $65. So everybody can do that. Yeah. You know, painting the back of your toilet wall an accent color so that you can see your toilet easier. Everybody can do that.

Sure.

You know, and then there's things like Bath Outfitters and that, that'll actually cut your bathtub and make it a shower if you feel more comfortable.

Right. So what you're saying is smaller incremental steps is the easier way to go.

But also, yeah, I think so. I think so. I think it also is not as daunting and you don't feel like you're oldifying your home.

Yeah, yeah, I like that. So, um, it sounds like the modification that you make to your own home really translate, they transfer to a residential setting just as well. I mean, there may be kind of on a macro look, there may be bigger, um, common environmental changes in a group home as there are for a private home, but Basically the same. We're talking about the same principles. Whatever helps the person stay engaged, maneuver, stay independent, stay mobile, whether in their own home or in a community setting, really the same principles.

It is. Can we hold for just one second? I can hear my team outside.

Yes. Hey Jake.

Yeah, I can hear you guys really loud, so close all the doors please. We have like 4 doors you have to go through, and apparently they think they're— okay, terrific. Sorry. Um, okay, so what was your question again?

Well, I was asking about, you know, the The changes that we make to aid in our mobility and balance and independence really apply to smaller private homes just as they do to community settings.

100%.

Yeah.

And, and quite often I think sometimes the big facilities that we design don't do all the things that we could do to help people to be more independent in dignity because they focus more on personal care, someone helping you with toileting, somebody helping with medications, food, helping you with clothing, than they do on independence. So they focus a lot more on that personal touch and caregiver than they focus on the environment. What can they do in the actual apartment to make you independent longer?

Yeah. Yeah. Not as much time spent on prevention It sounds like 100%, 100%.

And I understand it to a certain extent. Because let's say you have 150 rooms, times $65 for that toilet paper holder with a grab bar. That's a bigger chunk of change than it is just $65. So everything I suggest multiplied times 150 can be a lot of money.

Sure. Yeah, for the individual room or apartment. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So, and you already alluded to the importance of staying socially connected and communicating, really engage with other people. When you and I spoke earlier, you mentioned a client who had lost some residents because of their loneliness from COVID They were too isolated, had to stay quarantined, and really missed out on that social connection. What are your views on this type of isolation? What's going on there, and what can we do to minimize that?

I think we have to remember that we're beings that are more than atoms. And quite often we get so wrapped up in doing healthcare that we forget about soul care. And when we forget about soul care, we kind of put people into bubble wrap and protective modes. And quite often, that's not what they need or desire, especially if you're much older. Let's say your spouse died, at least for my grandmother or grandparents, you know, at 99, at 96. My, my family personally would rather have freedom and be connected to their family and eat some of the foods that they enjoy than someone talking to them about their cholesterol or saying, no, you're going to catch this from someone else and you might pass. They would rather have quality time versus quantity time. And we, especially during the pandemic, we took that right away from them. And so several of my clients were just beside themselves. As you mentioned, one of my clients I went up to and visited specifically said, I lost 18 residents due to loneliness. They just gave up and passed. It wasn't sickness. It wasn't the pandemic. It was loneliness because they weren't able to be connected. With who they cared about.

Yeah, taking a lot of these proactive steps to reduce the risk, it really had a price, right? People, it really did. Yeah.

And I don't— I'm not sure we'll ever really know the true price. You know, it is one of those things that I don't think a lot of people are going to measure. Everybody were— they were— all the folks were measuring different metrics. You know, and you were getting money and reimbursement for those metrics. No one really cared about the metrics that, well, someone just, you know, was lonely and died of a broken heart. That's what we used to call it.

Sure, sure. Yeah. So the whole notion of, you know, looking at the positivity rates, you know, for the virus following one treatment or one level of exposure versus another. That, that is more technical than really what— as you talk about the soul care, what the individual need on a, on a personal, interpersonal level. And yeah, the technical side is so important, and the medical side is, you know, utmost importance. But, um, how does that affect the individual?

Yeah, it is a, um— I think what you have to measure too is where someone is in their life. You know, it is, like I said, it's one thing if you have, you know, on by, by the actuaries, right? My grandparents would have already beat the odds quite a bit. So I remember my grandmother saying, you know, if I want to eat my fried green peppers, I can eat my fried green peppers. Like at that point, she said, I'd rather be dead than not eat them. And I'm like, wow, that's a statement.

But good green peppers.

Yeah, very Italian, you know, great green peppers.

But I know Yeah.

So you know what I'm talking about. But for her, there were certain things that denoted quality of life and freedom. And she had lived such a life that she didn't need to live more life. She just wanted to live more life with the people and doing what she wanted to do. But she really didn't feel like she needed to live more life. So it was all about what she wanted and zoning in very clearly on that, which I do think that probably extended their life quite a bit because because they knew who they wanted to be around, who they didn't want to be around, what they wanted to eat, where they wanted to go, and they did it.

You know, the quality is so crucial. And of course, we hope that the best settings can provide that balance between what the individual needs are, wherever he or she is at, and what the overall community safety precautions are and all that. So how do you, how do you balance all of that? You know, we talk a lot about wellness, and you know, this whole notion of longevity is tied to our sense of wellness and, you know, satisfaction in life. So what, what does a community setting do that can promote this sense of wellness, or is it all individual kind of concrete steps that they take? Is there some overall overarching?

Yeah. So I think your, you know, your local community, if you're aging in place, can be that. I'm not so much unlike a neighborhood watch that you're checking, you know, in on Mrs. Smith. And you notice that she hasn't been on the front porch for the last 2 days, even though she's always on the front porch. And you actually engage with her. Um, also, you know, letting that person know that they can help you. And it might be watching the kids for a couple minutes. It could be picking up the mail. It could be checking on your house while you're on vacation. But everyone wants to feel needed and have purpose. And I think a lot of times we, you know, we forget that as somebody ages, they still want the same things. You know, a lot of people are like, oh, I don't want to bother them. They want to be bothered. I want to hear their stories. You know, for my children, it was so important to be able to have 4 generations in one household and learn the long game, not be so upset about, you know, getting in a fight with their best friend today. And being able to know that there was a war that other people had went through and that siblings had died and that other people got married and somebody got to play basketball. My grandmother played basketball. This is like in the 1920s. I didn't even know they allowed girls to do those things because I've been kind of raised by the media and society that we weren't allowed to do anything. So learning real history and being able to connect and have someone else teach you and watch movies that are great and learn about them. You know, that was one of my children's best educations was being able to watch old Shirley Temple movies and Bing Crosby and, you know, engage with their grandparents and great-grandparents on generational cultural things.

Mm-hmm. Sure. Yeah. And I can see where that intergenerational model is so powerful for allowing that continued engagement and learning, you know, what our grandparents went through, what our parents went through. And the older generations can learn what the younger generations are doing too. That's powerful.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, they say you're supposed to have your friends 20 years younger than you and 20 years older.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I, I really like that notion of the neighborhood watch because that that's like we're all out for one another, right? We're all looking and want to make sure so-and-so— I haven't seen her come to breakfast in the last couple of days. I wonder. Yeah, so I mean, I know there are protocols in place for these community living, senior living settings to monitor people who are participating or not participating, but it's that— I like that notion that we're, we're out for one another, and that's That's really great because I take responsibility for you and vice versa. And there's that sense of strength and really feeling more empowered when we have that. We know other people are concerned about me.

Yeah, I think so. I think so. I think, you know, communities used to have it. I often say, you know, kind of our huge breach in American society, at least, is when we move from the front porch to the backyard. We started disconnecting, and then it was easier to hide things. And then our kids were no longer in front of all the neighbors, so they were better able to do drugs and different things. And, and when you're not accountable to a community as a whole, whether it's in a senior living home or in your own neighborhood, um, sometimes you left to your own devices, it's not a good thing. You might decide not to show up. Every day. And then one day turns into 3 days and all of a sudden you're, you know, isolated and by yourself. And that's not a great way to be.

Mm-hmm.

We were meant to be in community.

Yeah. And I know when I look at what are the ingredients for living longer, I think social engagement and social connectivity is right up there at the top, at least among the top 2 or top 3, along with diet. Nutrition and physical fitness. So social engagement, and we've lost some of that as we've become more urbanized and less connected with our neighborhoods. I can see that. But as you say, the community settings can do a lot to replace that, what's missing from, from the individual neighborhoods we don't have anymore. So we can maybe have that connectivity in the community setting. Yeah.

And I think exactly to what you were saying, that if you are social, you are going for walks with folks and talking, you're breaking bread and eating a meal. And when you eat and talk with people, you eat slower. You enjoy the meal, you digest it better. You don't gorge yourself on, you know, 2 bags of potato chips. You're, you know, you're a little bit better behaved on what you're eating. You might follow your medications better. So when you're connected, you do get more exercise, you do eat healthier. And you do, you know, watch the things that you're supposed to do a little bit better.

Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So tell our listeners about this multi-generational household that was created in your home. How did that come to be?

Well, it came about that my mother had— and father were living a couple blocks from us. And they would help me with the kids who were in middle school at that time. So they would go over for breakfast and then afterwards, because I'm an entrepreneur. And my grandmother had come to live with them. And we ended up hosting a 90th birthday party for my grandmother. And she was a Southern lady, and, you know, but fun and beautiful. And all my cousins came down and we had this huge party. And my grandma was up late and she was dancing. And first of all, that shocked me a little bit because she's a Baptist. But I, you know, she was just having a ball. And I thought, oh gosh, she's not gonna die anytime soon. Like that dawned on me, like, she wasn't my Italian grandparents. She was my, you know, you know, French-English grandparents' side. And I thought, I envisioned my parents moving in with me, but not her. And so, and the house was getting to be a little bit much for my parents that I had them in. And so I talked to my husband, and I said, what if we all live together? And he's like, okay, he's always like, you know, just rolls with the punches. So we sold our house that we had, and we bought a house and put 4 generations in one house. So my kids were in high school, my husband and I, my parents in their late 70s, and my grandmother, 92, with Alzheimer's. And we all moved in together and did this social experiment. And it was incredible. It really was. I mean, I learned a lot. There were some mistakes we made. We had such— we created such memories that I could never imagine ever not doing that. I learned things about my grandmother and my parents that I'd never heard before because there's a difference between being around them and being around them.

Versus living with them.

Yeah, you hear stories that come out of just being able to sit in each other's time versus having a Sunday dinner and really having it, you know, quarantined or boxed off. And so I was able to learn so much more about my history and my life and appreciate all of them so much more because of that.

Any downsides?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, they could tell you a bunch. But there was, you know, I didn't take you long to say yes. Yeah, yeah, no, I think the biggest one was my naivety and not wanting to confront things. I'm a sweep it under the rug kind of gal. And boundaries were something that we never talked about. Again, Italian family. And so the first thing was like my parents, people would just walk in the front door of my house to see my parents because my parents never locked their door. They never asked anybody to knock. They never anything. And I'm like, hey, hey, hey, hey, it's my house. You know? So that was something. I had to give up my kitchen.. And I didn't cook often, but I cooked enough. And, um, you know, when you have 4 women in one house, you do not own the kitchen. And so my mom was deemed the kitchen person. So, you know, think about my grandmother, my mother, and my silverware. We all had separate silverware sets, separate plates, separate dishes, and we had to choose whose we were going to use.

Hmm.

Um, you think it's a, not a big deal, but it's like a really big deal. And who owns that. Storage was another big one. Having it organized, easily accessible, everybody having equal amounts. Those were kind of the kickers that were— I wish I would have kind of talked through a little bit beforehand. But we got through them all. It's just I Yeah, it took me a little bit. And I also asked for them to contribute both in helping out in the house and financially.

Sure.

So part of it was, you know, I've always been told if you don't contribute, you feel like you're a burden and then you act like an ass. You know, you just don't act. You act like a donkey. You're not, you know, you're not as nice a person when people are giving you things. And that it seems counterintuitive. It seems like, hey, if I'm giving you a bunch of stuff, you're going to be nicer and more gracious. And in reality, it makes that person feel bad.

Mm-hmm.

So my grandmother helped with the laundry, helped with the groceries, helped set the table. My parents, uh, my dad and I did all the gardening. I paid, uh, all the bills except for the, uh, water bill and the cable. My parents paid for that. Um, then my husband did all the maintenance. So we kind of divvied everything up so that we all had skin in the game. That's the best way to say it.

Yeah. Sounds exciting.

It was, it was, it was fantastic and we really loved it.

Yeah. And your book, you, you captured so much of this, I'm sure, in Hive: The Simple Guide to Multigenerational Living.

Most definitely. And then we put parts of that into Boom. So that if somebody wanted to know about how to age in place, what aging options were available, what technologies out there from robots to data mining to exoskeletons. And AI and, you know, medical advancements out there, but basically how you can choose what your life's going to be living past 100.

Oh, well, sure. And they're both available on Amazon, I take it?

That is, they're available on Amazon and on Audible and Kindle.

Mm-hmm. Okay. So Boom! The Baby Boomers Guide to Preserving Your Freedom and Thriving as You Age in Place. And the second is Hive: The Simple Guide to Multigenerational Living, How Our Family Makes It Work. And you also have a docuseries on Amazon. Tell us about that.

We do. So, um, when my grandmother passed, we decided to kind of do a new venture. And so I bought this, uh, wow, big old mansion and decided to bring it back to life. And trick it out though with the latest in technology. So we've got toilet seats that height adjust to you. We've got cabinets in the kitchen, upper cabinets that come down off the wall to you so you don't have to reach up high. Bidet toilet seats, smart flooring, a spa with hot and cold plunge and sauna. Basically everything that I would want to age in place.

Nice.

And so the docuseries kind of shows, um, it's real cute and my parents are in it and it's very well done. We actually just won a Telly Award for it, um, how we did the renovation and the people that were involved and why this might be something you want to look into.

Terrific. Do you live there?

We do, we do. And then we rent it out for Airbnb so people can come and stay and try it out.

Wow. That's great. I love that. That's great. And where is that? Where is it?

That's in Columbus, Ohio.

Columbus, Ohio. Sure. And you also started a podcast with your daughter, I see.

I, we have, and we are having the best time. So we're, it's called What's Your Next Move? Aging on Your Own Terms. And what I realized was Adelina had so much to bring to the table to talk about. She's been surrounded by this her entire life and has lived through the renovations, had 4 generations in one house. And so we talk a lot about all the tech, some of the boundaries, some of the challenges, um, the things that we're doing, um, and we're just having a blast.

Yeah, that sounds great. So she's been immersed in this her whole life. How old is she now?

She is, uh, this month she'll be 26.

Okay, there is— she has a lot of insights, a lot of experiences to share.

She does. She started out when she was about 4 coming to my first open house. 4 months, 4 months old, not 4 years old, 4 months old.

So yeah. She can't wait, I'm sure, to share more.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. Well, what a great conversation. I really enjoy this very much, Lisa. Uh, looks like we're out of time though, but before I wrap up, I just wanna remind my listeners to visit my website, livingto100.club, sign up for my email list and download a free copy of my 9 Tips to Make Living Longer Enjoyable. You also see an option to contact me with your questions and comments. I welcome your feedback. Lisa, thanks so much for being a guest on our show today. For those who might want to contact you, how can they do that?

Uh, the best way is to go to our website, um, my personal one, LisaMcini.com.

Lisa M. Cini, spelled C-I-N-I, .com.

That's correct. And then follow us on all the social media. We're on all the platforms, you know, YouTube and Facebook and Instagram and all the good stuff.

Oh, terrific. Terrific. Well, thanks so much for being a guest again. And thanks to our listeners for tuning in. Hope to see you next time.

Thank you so much.