Finding Your Purpose After a Major Life Change | With Jeff Seckendorf 🌅💪

Welcome to the Living to 100 Club Podcast.

Greetings to our listeners. You're listening to one of our premium episodes on the Living to 100 Club, and I'm your host, Joe Casciani. Each week, our conversations educate and inspire, helping you get the best out of all the years we are given, regardless of what obstacles come our way. Premium subscribers have access to all episodes, both the two public and the two premium episodes, every month. Thanks for being a subscriber. Your support allows us to continue this mission without sponsors. We hope you're receiving value from every conversation with our experts, presumably much greater value than the price of a subscription. On today's program, our guest is Jeff Seckendorf. At age 70, in about 2 years, Jeff will attempt to break a US or international cycling hour record. Our guest shares with us his process-oriented training program incorporating both mental and physical dimensions in a cycling competition. Then we dig deeper to take a close look at finding our sense of purpose, especially after a life change like retirement, separation or divorce, or other major event. We discuss the process of discovering a new purpose, especially through parts sports, and how this process contributes to longevity, health, and happiness. What is the Institute of Purpose that our guest has recently co-founded? And importantly, how do we discover a new sense of purpose in our own lives? First, a little background. Jeff began his career as a photographer and filmmaker, first as a stills photographer, UPI, and other national publications. Then as a director, cameraman, producing, directing, and photographing TV commercials, music videos, movies, and documentaries. One recent project documents a team of Parkinson's patients on a trek to Mount Everest base camp. Jeff has won numerous awards for cinematography, including Sundance Film Festival and Independent Spirit Awards nominations for Best Cinematography. In 2008, Jeff founded Unified Team Diving, a global scuba training and certification agency. He's authored 8 training manuals and dozens of online courses. As a master's athlete, Jeff races a bicycle on track and holds the hour record in his age group at the San Diego Velodrome and is a course record holder at the World 6-Hour Time Trial Championships. Jeff's current project on the bike is to attempt to break the US hour record in the 70-74 age group. Quite a ride you've been on, Jeff.

Uh, yeah.

Welcome to our podcast.

Thanks, Joe. It's great to be here.

Yeah, glad to have you. Yeah, I always like to open by asking our guests to tell us maybe the highlights that brought you to where you are today. I covered a lot of your work history and your professional career, but what are the highlights that brought you to where you are today?

You know, it's interesting, um, I think a lot of it has been serendipitous. I really haven't planned a lot of this. It's just I'm very receptive to projects that come my way. And so, you know, I had a 30-year career in the film industry, and it went really well. But, you know, for most people, including me, in the film business, you know, your, your full-time job is looking for work and your part-time job is working. So, you know, that started getting a little bit old. And, you know, I had one producing partner say to me that, you know, she saw me spending 15 years getting into the film business and 15 years trying to get out.

Yeah.

So, you know, on the trying to get out thing, I was looking for something interesting, you know, just something that I could do every day, didn't have to look for work, and had an education component to it. And then one of my old scuba instructors had this idea to start this certification and training agency from scratch. So in 2008, we did this startup. It ran well for a long time. I bought him out in 2019. So I own it solely now. And, and it's been a really, really cool project. It's been a really cool project. And then so along the way with that, through the filmmaking part, I had an opportunity to start working with the Parkinson's community in San Diego.

Wow.

So, my wife is a clinician, works almost exclusively with Parkinson's patients. So, I've got hundreds of friends with Parkinson's now. And so, I've been working also as the director of operations for the Parkinson's Association here in San Diego. And that's been another really, really fun and satisfying project. And they go nicely hand in hand, you know, they're so different, but they're both basically tech operations, and I, I love it both.

Yeah. Yeah. You're incorporating your film history and background as well as your interest in being outdoors and sports and athletics. Yeah. That's, that's a great accomplishment. Yeah. How many people are on the trek?

The, on that?

Yeah.

On the Mount Everest trek, I think we had 10.

Uh-huh.

3 with, 3 with Parkinson's on that.

Uh-huh.

So my wife runs biannual, right? That's every 2-year treks to some crazy place in the world.

Oh, wow.

To support research or something for Parkinson's. So we've done, she did Kilimanjaro right before I met her, but then Mount Everest Base Camp, Machu Picchu, Camino de Santiago. Last year we trekked the Dolomites and next year we're going to a pilgrimage trek in Japan.

Wow. Those are really—

it's great. It's great. Because for Parkinson's patients especially, it's like, these are hard hikes. These are hard 8-day hikes and people train for them and, you know, it's really an opportunity for someone to really push themselves past what they believe their limits are.

Of course. Yeah. Push our limits, see what else we can accomplish. Yeah. That's important for everyone. So you've done a lot of comp competing over the years, and I always like to ask, what, what have you learned about yourself after these years, especially with the cycling competition? What have you learned about yourself, Jeff?

I, I think it's more what I'm learning than, than what I've learned. It's not what I'm learning is how not to quit. This has been my big thing for this past year. It's like, how do you learn not to quit? Somebody once said to me, said recently I heard that winners are just losers who didn't quit. Yes, that was pretty, pretty interesting. So that's what I'm working on, you know, and that's what I bring to everything in life, right? It's like, there's no point in doing any of these projects, the bike ride, you know, mountain treks, any kind of training or any kind of self development in one field if you can't apply it to the rest, right?

Mm-hmm.

So, you know, I've got this crazy bike thing. I'm training 15 hours a week on the bike and, you know, I just, just got off, you know, about a half an hour ago from a workout and, you know, gym and paying attention to nutrition and hydration and the mental aspects and the equipment and blah, blah, all that other stuff. And so if I can't take that and apply it to everything else, then there's no point. So, you know, when I start a project now, like for the Parkinson's Association, I just get on this rampage where I can't quit.

Mm-hmm.

And I've really learned that from cycling cuz, you know, mm-hmm.

Yeah. The lessons we learned can be applied in so many different areas, right? Sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. I read a really interesting book recently by Annie Duke. Remember Annie Duke, the poker player?

I don't—

she was on the World Poker Tour for a long time, but she's brilliant. And she wrote a book called Quit. And I've just been recommending everybody I know read this thing. It's amazing. It was an amazing book. But it really talks a lot about the psychology of quitting. Quit while you're ahead. Don't quit while you're ahead. Quit when you're winning. Don't quit when you're winning. It was a fascinating read.

Yeah.

So I think anybody who's involved in anything that has the ability to stop it before you're there. It's a great read.

Yeah, it's funny, I'm on the treadmill in the morning and I try not to look at my— the range that I'm covering. And when I don't look at it to see how far I've gone or how far I've got left to go, I do much better. But when I look at it, then it's like more of a chore because I'm focused on, on the destination rather than just being away from the process, if you know what I mean. So I like that, learning how not to quit.

Yeah. I'm kind of the opposite on the bike of you though.

Yeah.

I like to know exactly what I'm up to, how long it's gonna be, how much more I have to go and how hard I have to push through that.

Yeah.

So I get to the end, you know, maxed out.

Yeah. Yin and yang then, right? Sure.

No, for sure.

Okay. So I, when you and I talked, um, uh, especially I watched this great video that you have on the website, um, and so much of it is, uh, mindset and complemented by our physical skill and motivation. So which is, which is more important when it comes to competition? What do you think, mindset or the, the physical? Side of this.

You know, when we did that little film on, on the bike ride, my coach who's amazing, Ben Sharp, said, and I think we used this in the movie, that, you know, there's a big physical component to this kind of bike ride that I'm looking to do, this hour ride, but you can't muscle your way to this hour record and you can't think your way to the hour record. There's this balance that you have to have that allows you to let the mind drive the physical. So it's easy to train physical skills, right? You can go to the gym, you can get on your bike, you can get on your treadmill, you can do programmed structured workouts, or you can make them up yourself. And you know, if you do them properly, you'll get stronger. It's much harder to train your mind to push through the hard parts. You know, it's so easy just to say, oh God, I'm just cooked, I'm going to quit. And so I think it's— so to answer your question, I think it's easier to train a physical skill, but it's more important to train a mental— the mental aspects of anything you're doing. And this applies to sports or work or relationships or anything, you know. I think it's all the same.

So it's the, the physical activity that we may be able to pursue and, and stay at, but yet it's the mental side of it that can turn it on or off. I mean, we, we're capable maybe of doing more physically than we think we are. Is that an extension of that theory?

Oh, 100%. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, completely. Because, you know, I just know from, you know, my time on the bike that, you know, I can do a ride and finish strong, or I can do a ride and I can finish wasted, you know? And the only difference is what's in my mind. Was I able to push that last 20 minutes and leave nothing on the table or on the track or on the road? Or was I just, you know, biding my time to get through this thing to get to the end and then go have a coffee? Mm-hmm. You know, so I think the mindset thing is, you know, at least this is what I'm focused on really this year is, is getting to a point where, you know, I can, I can really understand the differences between physical and mental training in sport and how to apply that to rest, to the rest of my life. But at the same time, understanding how to train the mental things.

Mm-hmm.

So it's, you're not making it up every day, right? I mean, in the physical part, in the, the bike, the treadmill, gym, all that, you know, there's structured training. You, you do this many sets at this weight and you'll get stronger. You run this many intervals at this pace, you'll get faster, right? It's very easy to look at that structure and say, okay, well we know how to make you physically stronger.

Mm-hmm.

It's much harder to train your mind mentally stronger.

Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, there are exercises and things you can do, but, you know, it's, it's a, it's a tricky business to, yeah, to get yourself to a point where you can push yourself past your limits.

How powerful that, that thinking is. And, and I talk about the same thing, Jeff, with seniors who, you know, face these physical setbacks or maybe some event in their life and how it's the mental attitude that helps us to get back up no matter what it is. Maybe we're able to get back to normal, or maybe we're kind of creating a new normal. We'll never get back to where we were, but we've got to adjust and adapt to a new normal. So it's, it's so much a matter of what we tell ourselves, what that self-talk is all about, to continue to push, push us physically, whatever is going on. It's, it's that mindset that trumps everything, I think. Yeah.

And I took this on, you know, later in my life.

Yeah.

Right. So I'm, I'll be 68 in a couple weeks and, you know, I, I wasn't an elite athlete as a kid or as a middle-aged man. You know, I just really started to push this, you know, in my late fifties. Although I've been on a bike forever, I raced cross-country skis and, you know, I did a lot of other stuff when I was, younger, but I was never a serious competitor in any of it until I turned, I don't know, 55 or something like that.

Yeah.

And started racing as a master's athlete. So I'm having to learn all this coming, you know, later than most people, you know, again, I look at my coach and, you know, the worst thing you can do is compare yourself to something else.

You bet.

But, but, you know, he's in his fifties and he's been racing since he was in college and he's got 30+ years of, you know, this, this competition mindset. And, you know, I've been racing as, you know, for 12 years and I had to learn it, you know, as a second career, third career or something like that. So this is where all of this stuff comes from is that, you know, this is not just innate bred in me. I'm having to actually learn it from the beginning. But again, we go back at other stuff and look at other projects and other things. And I want to learn how to, you know, use a piece of software. I want to learn how to, you know, fix a car. I want to— whatever it is, right? It's all the same thing. You just use whatever process you know about yourself and apply it to anything, right? Does that sound like hocus pocus?

Yeah, sure.

No, I mean, it makes sense. I don't— I can't tell something.

I think what, you know, the other point is this notion of comparing ourselves to somebody else. Like you said, you can't compare yourself to your coach. And I think the only comparison we can make is to where we were yesterday or where we were a month ago or a year ago. That's the comparison. Are we improving? Are we getting further along on our journey compared to what we used to do, or the way we used to act, or think, or speak to others? It's that, um, to compare is to despair, right? That's what we say. We don't want to compare ourselves to others because there's always going to be somebody better off and somebody who's going to be worse off, or wealthier or not as wealthy. So the comparisons are valid only when we're looking at where we were, where we used to be compared to where I am today. So I think that would apply to your, to your cycling, uh, workouts too. Are you doing better than what you did a year ago? I'm sure you, you are.

Yeah. And we track that. And you know, in a bike race, you can't control anybody else. I can't control anybody else's outcome. I can only control my own outcome and if I have trained to a point where I'm faster than everybody else that day, awesome. And if I've trained to a point where somebody else is faster than me, I can't control that.

Yeah.

All I can do is, is show up with my best physical self and my best mental self and just do the best I can.

Yeah. Yeah. Great point. That's a great point. We also spoke about process versus outcome, kind of the, the journey versus the destination or the goal, right? And how do you, how do you look at that? I know we touched on that a little bit already, but which is— are they equally important, the process of what you're going through or, um, completing, making, you know, setting a new record? Which, which do you think it is?

You know, I've had a little transition in that thinking you know, when I started this whole thing, I've always been very process-oriented, right? So if you're gonna do something and it's gonna take you X amount of time and you don't enjoy that process, there's no point in doing it if you're just trying to get to an outcome. There's this line that writers say that the best part of writing is having written, and that just means they hate the process, right? But if it takes you a year to write a book, and it takes you 3 seconds to send it to the publisher, and you hated that year, you just loved the 3 seconds of sending it to the publisher. What was the point of, you know, of doing the year? It doesn't make any sense. So process-oriented training, I think, is really something that's critical in that you have to be able to enjoy the process, even if it hurts, even if it's suffering, even if it's hard, even if it's troubling because, you know, if you do the process, then your outcome becomes some version of inevitable, right? If I apply that to this hour record, you know, I train every day, I do structured training. That's my process. It's hard, but I enjoy it. It applies to the rest of my life being stronger and all of that. When I get on the track and it's time to, you know, pull the trigger on riding my bike as far as I can go for an hour, if I— the outcome is going to be inevitable, which is I'm gonna do my best. That best may or may not be better than the other guy.

Mm-hmm.

I just don't know.

Sure.

Right? And we're not gonna know till, you know, we get there. The last time I did this, it was, and that's really good. The next time I do it, it may not be, and that's okay. But again, process-oriented training means you live the process and embrace it to a point where you're doing the best job you can possibly do every single day. And then I look at outcome and say, if I do that, the outcome is inevitable. Now, I used to look at this and say, process is everything and the outcome doesn't matter. Right? I'm just gonna do the best I can. And if I show up and I get third in a race, well, it's okay. I did my process. Who cares about the outcome? And then I realized that was a complete, total, utter cop-out. Oh, right. That just meant that if I got third in the race, I didn't have to do anything other than say, well, I did my process. Who cares about the outcome? But third is miserable. Second is more miserable. And what I found is the more now— this is the recent change with me, just like past few months, I've really turned around about this. If I focus on the outcome without disrupting the process, the whole thing is more fun. It's interesting, right? If I just focus on the outcome and really work hard in training to get to an outcome, first of all, I train harder.

Mm-hmm.

I make better mistakes. You know, I did a race a few, I don't know, 2 months ago, 3 months ago, we did a time trial here in San Diego.

And mm-hmm.

I got beat. It was a 20K time trial, about 30 minutes. I got beat by a friend of mine who's 32 years younger than me, and he beat me by 20 seconds. And I was incensed.

Yeah.

You know, where, where did I lose that 20 seconds?

Sure.

To get second to somebody 30 years old who I like and respect and is really strong on a bike, but I freaking got second by 20 seconds and this haunted me for, you know, it's like, where did I leave it on the table? Now I couldn't do anything about his performance. He did a great ride.

Sure.

I did a great ride. He did a ride that was 20 seconds greater than me, deserved to win.

Is that 20 seconds considered a small win or a big win?

On 30 minutes? Tiny.

Yeah, tiny. Okay.

30 minutes. Yeah. It's tiny.

Yeah. Okay. Um, all right.

So, so I mean, it's, it, it could have been one mistake in a turn, you know, 20 seconds to go away. So, um, yeah, so, you know, I look at second place and I said, oh God, you know, a loser. What is it? A win? Didn't I say this earlier? Winners are losers that don't quit. So yeah, somehow someplace in that race I quit for 20 seconds.

But you, you, so you've shifted, you kind of transitioned to this point now where the outcome, the, the final product content is more important than— as important as—

I don't want to say it's more important, it's as important because it's a balance.

Yeah, yeah. You're also aware of the process. You've been close to the process for a long time now, so you've almost, um kind of, kind of incorporated that already into your ride, right? You have the, the whole process, the awareness.

Yeah, completely. So what, what, what's happened to me is that I've started to realize that if I focus a little bit more on the outcome than nothing, which is what I was doing, it drives me to train harder and it makes the process more satisfying cuz I'm sitting there suffering on the bike knowing that, okay, this hurts like hell, but it's really helping me get to this goal. And I, you know, I think goals are important. I, I like the idea of working on goals and, you know, be it in sport or life or anything else. And, and I think that, you know, goal is out— goal is outcome, you know. So we need something to drive us, otherwise, you know, going around in circles and you say, well, kind of doesn't matter.

Yeah, yeah, very important. I agree, I agree. So let's shift into this notion of purpose. And our sense of purpose in sports. How do you, how do you find that? Well, what is that meaning in, in, in cycling or scuba diving? What, how do you find that sense of purpose in what you're doing?

Well, I think it's very much what we've been talking about, which is, um, how doing something that you can apply to the rest of your life. Doing something that will allow you to help other people, doing something that will help society in some way or another. So I think for me, purpose is really just being in a position where I can help people. When I started out doing this Hour Record, it was like the mountain climbing thing, right? Why climb a mountain? Well, you climb it because it's there. Yeah, but, you know, that's another cop-out. You know, because you climb it because you want to accomplish something for yourself. And if, if it's really a self-centric adventure, it doesn't help anybody else. You know, you're just putting everybody at risk in case something goes wrong. But if you can figure out a way to twist a mountain climb or a bike ride or a hike or writing a book or whatever it happens to be, you know, starting a company that helps people, any of those things, you know, to me, purpose, it, it provides a sense of purpose to me and it gives me a way to help other people. I had to do a big thinking shift about this bike ride because it was very much like climbing a mountain for me when I started this thing. I'm just gonna do it. It's for me. I don't care about anybody else. I just wanna go faster. I wanna get this record. I wanna stand on the podium. Get my 20 seconds of fame on Facebook, and then it'll be over. What I realized is if I change my thinking about this and what the purpose of this ride is, I can actually use this ride to influence others to maybe do something that they didn't think they could do, or to push themselves a little harder, or to take something that seemed uncomfortable and apply it to another part of their life where it is comfortable.

Yeah.

You know, we talk a lot about being comfortable being uncomfortable. And so for me, the sense of my sense of purpose is what can I do in my life that will help other people? Really simple. And still have fun and still make some money and, you know, stay healthy and fit. And I think it really comes down to that. You know, so I've just turned this bike ride into a thing, right? I talk on podcasts, I talk to all sorts of groups about purpose, and I use the bike ride as a kickoff point. It's like, you know, do I need to do this? No. Does it help me in all aspects of my life? Absolutely. Can I apply what I'm learning in the bike ride to my other part of life? Absolutely. Can you do this? Absolutely. Do you have to do it on a bike? No.

Sure.

Anyway, do it on anything. Do anything you want, you know, find a way. Just, you know, do a fundraising hike or do something.

So it's a— it's this combination of, uh, having a goal, striving for some, some goal, at the same time really looking to see how it can spread or how it can, um, overflow to others. And doing things that we're accomplishing, and we get a sense of success and satisfaction but it also kind of maybe helps others derive some, some meaning too out of that same activity.

That's it.

Yeah.

And I, I think that's when we look around at purpose and we, we look at people who are in a position where their life has changed for one reason or another, and they wake up and they say, I don't know what I'm going to do today, or why, you, you know. I mean, if those of us who have found some purpose can, you know, create some motivation to say, well, look, you know, you don't have to light the world on fire. You just have to do something that helps 3 people. Yeah, you know, it doesn't have to be, you know, you don't have to launch a rocket or go to Mars or cure cancer or just, you know, go to a soup kitchen and feed 3 people. I mean, it's, it's really just more about You know, you can do anything. You can take any project and turn it into something bigger, socially better, you know, that, that helps people if you just look around and decide to do it. We see this in retirement, right? People go out and say, well, I'm going to garden and play golf. And that lasts, what, 3, 4 months? And then you're like cooked.

Mhm. Yeah, that's right, that's right. And, uh, sometimes it's opening those doors, knocking on those doors, and we don't know what's on the other side, but it's maybe 180 degrees from where we thought we were going, right?

Yeah, I mean, my dad retired and had nothing to do, and, you know, we, we joked about him, um, that he was— became a professional golfer.

Uh-huh.

He was a shitty golfer. Yeah, you know, he was, he was, he was a bad golfer, but he loved it more than everything. And so, and he did it with abandon. And he played 3 or 4 times a week. And he, you know, played shitty golf, but he loved every minute of it. And it gave him so much purpose and the clubs and the thing and the shoes and the cart and the friends and the whole thing. It was a big piece. And, you know, he at, I don't know, close to 80, got involved in learning how to really work his Mac computers. And I think he took a lot of what he did in golf, which is the staying power that, you know, doing this every day, I'm doing this every day, I'm doing this every day. And he applied it to learning how to run an operating system and learning how to run software. And, you know, he actually became, you know, pretty good at it. And I think a lot of it came from the fact that he he was good at golf in his mind and in his process. And he is not in his outcomes, but it doesn't matter, right? Because he didn't care and I don't care. Nobody cared. But, you know, he loved it and he applied that to something else and he got really good at something else. And, you know, he ran out his whole life, you know, being good at golf for him and good at computers. For him, and, you know, it allowed him to do other stuff well. I think it was a great thing, you know.

Yeah, it is. It's a matter of sometimes, um, we don't know what it's going to be. We don't know what, what's— like I said, what's on the other side of that door. And yeah, we, we good, you know, we feel that sense of success and accomplishment and achievement and say, well, maybe there's, there's something else. Maybe there's something that touches on what I've been doing, and maybe I can learn a new language, or, you know, learn an instrument, or learning something else, and maybe volunteer at some, some kind of community organization. So whatever it is that puts a smile on our face in the morning, right, when we, we wake up and say, oh, I'm looking forward to doing this this week or today. Yeah, that it gives us that meaning and purpose. But there's also a little bit— sometimes there's some altruistic side to it, but not necessarily, right? I mean, um, sometimes it's just because we want to have that sense of accomplishment.

I remember you also have to know when to say when, right? So, yeah, you know, my brother is a brilliant harmonica player. Yeah, like really, really talented. And I thought, what, you know, I travel all the time, what a great instrument. And, and he got the music gene and I didn't.

Yeah.

And I thought, well, I'm going to learn to play the harmonica so I can take this thing on trips and I can entertain the masses and I can have fun and blah, blah, blah. And, you know, I beat that poor harmonica to death for like 8 months until I finally realized that, you know, there's no outcome here. You know, I hate the process and there's no outcome. Let's, let's go a different direction. So you also have to know when to say when.

Sure. Yeah, yeah, I get that. I, I think that's right. And just the same, there's some value in those 8 months, right? I mean, would you—

well, I learned, I learned, yeah, that you don't have to finish something you start.

Exactly. Sure. And other things. So tell us about the Institute of Purpose. This is something that you and your colleague have founded, the Institute of Purpose. What's this all about?

Yeah, this is a really interesting thing. So the Institute of Purpose came up, uh, I was working with a, a friend of mine who is a gerontologist who works with aging populations. And he has a company here in San Diego called Partner in Aging. And we got talking about some of the things he did, he does with his clientele and some of the things I was doing with the Parkinson's Association. And we got talking about purpose and this crazy bike ride. And he had this name that he's been trying to do something with for a long time called the Institute of Purpose. And I heard it and it was like, oh my God, I want to do something with that because it's such a cool name. So we basically formed a little company and opened up a website. And it's very new. I mean, it's months old, and got a podcast account. And, you know, I mean, have all these film and video skills. So we're doing that. And basically, we're creating content about purpose. What is purpose? How do you successfully change purpose? What happens when you wake up in the morning and you say, crap, I have no purpose? And now that you've recognized it, here are some guidances and some things. And here are like a ton of little short 30-second videos from people who've— talking about what their purpose is and some longer videos about people who have discovered purpose and explored it a little more deeply. And, and there's a speakers bureau attached to it. And it's got a couple of little sponsors. And I mean, you've seen the website.

I did. I did. I saw it, instituteofpurpose.org, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, that's the URL. Yeah.

So we're developing it out. And I think it's, it's interesting. And we're looking for people with purpose to participate on the website. So we'll call out to your listeners, if anybody's interested in doing a short podcast about particularly what happened when they switched from, oh my God, I have no purpose, to now I'm doing this.

Yeah, yeah.

Those are the stories we're trying to collect up and curate.

Can you recommend any steps, or what are the— what's your thinking on how do I find this sense of purpose? I'm retired, I don't know where I should go, what I should head for. What What are some steps that we take?

Well, I think you can take a page from my harmonica debacle.

Okay.

Right.

Which is spend 8 months. Is—

well, that, but, you know, try to do things that you have a modicum of ability to be successful at. You know, it's a pretty good bet that I was going to be unsuccessful at the harmonica. You know, I didn't have any really designs on that problem. Um, we do a thing called Your Path to Mastery Workshop where basically you figure out how you got good at something, right? So we go through the process of how you got good at anything. So if you are a pilot, for example, mm-hmm, discovery, training, practice, teaching.

Sure.

I think, I think mastery ends with teaching. So you, you find out about flying, you get a license, you go practice and fly for years, you become an instructor, and now you've kind of mastered that. So, Everybody has something in their life that they're good at. If you want to change purpose, one of the things you can do is find something that interests you and then apply those steps that you used to get to where you were good at something else to the new thing.

Okay?

So you're a successful pilot, flight instructor. Now you want to be, you know, gardening really turns you on, right? You want to grow your own organic food. You want to get involved in this. So discovery, figure it out. What do you like about this? Training, take a course, take workshops, go online, whatever you have to do. Practice, do a couple of years of cool gardening and then go back and teach it. But you can take whatever you knew how to do well and not so much use what that thing is, but use the steps you use to get there and apply them to something else.

Yeah, use the process.

It's a process. Just figure out your process on purpose to approach mastery, you know. And maybe it— I don't know, you want to write a book, right? So you decide, there's your discovery. You maybe do some quick education on you know, formatting and publishers and this and that and structure and, you know, 3-act structure, whatever it happens to be. And then you practice, which is write the book for however long it takes, and then get it published and hopefully help others do the same thing. So I think, you know, if you find— this is what we're really working on, the Institute of Purpose, is giving people insight into what they could do, but also the idea of you can do it by just applying the skills you've learned in other aspects of your life. You don't have to just go blindly forward and say, I'm gonna plant a garden. I have no idea what to do.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's probably more effective when it is tied to past skills or past achievements, right? So there are some, you know, some degree of successes and skills, really, but it's— you're learning to apply those skills in a, in a very different area.

I think it's important that you know you, you were successful in, in this.

Yeah.

And can be successful in this because you already did it.

Right, right.

You know, you're not trying to— you're not just fishing for success. You've actually experienced success and you're just applying those same steps to something else. So it's not this endless run of, I don't know if this is ever going to work, it's not going to work. It's like a be like doing a Rubik's Cube for the rest of your life.

Sure, sure. Yeah, it sounds like a lot of valuable information, good resources there. Institute of Purpose.org. Yeah, so any of our listeners have some interest, you can visit the website and send in your, um, your, your comments and ask Jeff and Jonathan, who I know— Jonathan Schwartz is your partner. Yeah, so If you have a story you'd like us to be—

you'd like to be a part of the website and the content, just let us know and we can either, you know, do it as a video or do it as a podcast and, and you can share your, you know, your own vision of your own purpose and what happened in that, any shift that happened and, you know, influence others.

Sure. Yeah, that's good to share our own journey. Yeah, I like that. Well, great conversation about process, Jeff, and, and, uh, and outcome. I mean, this is important, good stuff. It's nice to drill down a little bit and look, take a closer look at how we can move forward and how we can change behavior and feel that sense of accomplishment and, you know, satisfaction. I like that.

Yeah, and it's fun.

Yeah, that's important. It needs to be fun.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've always said if it's not fun, we don't want to play.

Yeah. So we're just about out of time. Let me ask you, what's the takeaway for the audience? What would you like the listeners to remember from this conversation?

Oh, I think if you want to do something, just say yes.

Just say yes.

You know, universe drops something in your lap, just say yes. Unless you want to learn the harmonica, maybe not so much. But yeah, no, just be receptive to all the cool stuff that falls in front of you.

Yeah.

You know, that you either expect or don't expect, and those are the cool projects.

Yeah. Yeah. To be open to those learning opportunities. Sure. I like that. Okay, Jeff, looks like we're out of time, but before we wrap up, I just wanna remind my listeners to visit my website, livingto100.club, sign up for our email list and download a free copy of my 9 Tips to Make Living Longer Enjoyable. You'll also see an option to contact me with your questions and comments. I welcome your feedback. And finally, thanks again for being a premium club member. Your support helps us keep the program going. I believe that the messages we share each week can lift our spirits, help us to stay engaged, and look forward to getting older no matter what gets in the way. Jeff, thanks so much for being a guest on our show. For those who might want to contact you, how can they do that?

Yeah, instituteofpurpose.org. There's a contact form.

Just hit that. Great. Okay. Well, thanks so much, and thanks to everyone for tuning in. Hope to see you next time.