How to De-clutter Your Life — Physically, Mentally, and Emotionally

Welcome to the Living to 100 Club Podcast.

Here's our host, Dr. Joseph Casciani. Well, hello to everyone joining us today on our podcast. You're listening to the Living to 100 Club, and I'm your host, Joe Casciani. Before we introduce our guests, I'd like to remind everyone that I'm available for public speaking events, particularly to community organizations and senior groups. I love to talk to others about aging well and making it over those hurdles. I think there's real value in helping people feel inspired about their future. There's an option on my website to book a call to discuss a presentation for your group. I also offer one-on-one coaching for help bouncing back from struggles and setbacks. You can see this option as well on my website. And one last item of self-promotion: if you're looking for a consultant or trainer on clinical topics like dementia or depression, this is my wheelhouse, so feel free to contact me if there's a need in your organization. Contact options are on my website, again, livingto100.club. Now on to our podcast. Our guest today is Julie Coraccio. We explore the topic of clutter in all of its forms. How do our homes become too cluttered and how do we gain control over this? In terms of emotional clutter, how do we release our doubt, forgive, and express our emotions in ways that are liberating and uplifting? First, a little background. Julie Coraccio is an award-winning professional life and end-of-life organizer, certified life coach, and professional declutterer. She's passionate about supporting people in clearing clutter in all areas of their lives, getting organized, and becoming more mindful and aware. Julie hosts the popular podcast Clear Your Clutter Inside and Out. And she's the author of 15 books. Happily married to Tony, she's also at the beck and call of 4 rescued cats: Joey, Antonio, and Nina, and Augusta. Love those names. Julie is interested in plant medicine, hiking, reading, nature, and is in the process of remodeling her house. Based in Wheeling, West Virginia, Julie works with people all over the world. Welcome to our podcast today, Julie.

Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Great. Glad to have you with us. I always like to begin by asking our guests to tell us briefly about the journey that brought you to where you are today.

Sure. So I had moved from Los Angeles to Raleigh, North Carolina, and it was— I had been with an organization and then I was really fortunate and got out before they were investigated and shut down by the feds. And so in the meantime, I had gotten a job. So I'd been in Raleigh about 18 months and I got a job as a director of development. My background was in fundraising, grant writing, working with nonprofits. And it became really apparent to me that this was a crazy place. And so almost as soon as I started, I thought, I can't— I don't know how long I'm going to last here. So while I was there, I was there about 14, 13 months. I said, I'm going to start my own business. So what can I do that I'd be good at? And I got to get paid, right? And that would make a difference in people's lives. And so I came up with organizing. And when I started my business, it was called Healing Through Organization. That was very purposeful. I want people to know your lives can change, you can heal from this. And then as I started to do the work, and I do a lot of personal growth and personal development work, I don't spend it on shoes. I'd rather spend it on a class or a good book. And so as I'm starting my business, then I started a TV show on the internet, and I'd go to a studio and shoot it. And I'd interview body, mind, and spirit experts. And so that was growing my interest in that and kind of connecting clutter in different ways. And then I had a client. And she said, I just want to talk. And when I work with removing physical clutter, I typically work in 4-hour blocks, so you can see a difference. And I was— she said, I can tell you're nervous, but I really want to talk. And I said, you're the client, we're going to do whatever you want. And so we ended up talking for probably 3 hours, and then bam, in an hour got so much clutter cleared, it was amazing. And so that was that aha moment, like, I gotta go get certified in life coaching. I said, I have to bring that into my work more. And so that led me down that path. And kind of that's where I am today.

Yeah, well, so you, you consider yourself a professional declutterer. Tell me about your, your work activities. How do you spend your time professionally?

A lot of coaching. And I've gotten a lot more public speaking, which I absolutely love. A lot of writing, working on another book. I do a lot of blogging. I have partnered with someone and we're teaching live classes now. And so that is the bulk. I still do organizing and decluttering, but it's been virtual because of COVID I stopped going to houses. I just wasn't going to take any chances. And so that has moved online, but I'm doing, especially as I age, I want to be realistic. And so it has moved more towards coaching and speaking and writing.

Sure. Sounds like you're very busy. That's good. Kudos to you. Yeah. So what is your definition of clutter? And I know we're going to talk more about this in terms of physical and emotional, but why are our lives so cluttered these days?

Well, first I would say I want to share my definition because I think a little more holistically and differently than most people who declutter and organize. And so my definition of clutter is this: it's anything that prevents you from from creating the life you choose, deserve, and desire. And I'm very deliberate with those words. And so what I want people to get into the habit of is not seeing— is seeing the pile of papers on their desk not just as a pile of paper of clutter, but as a barrier to getting a promotion. Or seeing that closet that's absolutely stuffed as preventing a relationship from blooming or becoming an issue. In a relationship. So it's not just like, I got a bunch of clothes. It's like, oh, this is causing a problem in my relationship. So seeing the bigger picture of it. I think that our lives are so cluttered, because we're trying to fulfill a need. You know, you're either coming— I like to say that most of us don't feel good enough, worthy enough, or loved. And that's where our challenges come from, because we're either coming from love or fear. And so we are trying to fulfill a need. And obviously it's individual based on clutter, but that, that's where it comes from.

So clutter is really any barrier that anything that blocks us from moving forward, whether it's physically, emotionally, professionally, wherever we are in our life, clutter is holding us back. So it sounds like it's some kind of protective mechanism. Does it, does it prevent that? I mean, is it, Do people feel good surrounded by this clutter?

Oh, yeah, it's definitely— again, everything's individual. But you know, you can have clutter. Say you grew up in chaos, right? And everything's nuts, then clutter is going to be your comfort zone. You know, or you create— you want to write the, write the great, you know, the great American novel. But if you have clutter, that prevents you because maybe you— it's not only a fear, a failure, but a fear of succeeding. So there's usually something psychological— that's just with physical clutter. So there's usually something going on. And then of course, the extreme clutter of hoarding, which, you know, you would probably know because that's more your wheelhouse. It's, you know, in the DM— what is it, the DMV-5 or whatever— the— that's diagnostic, that that's a true mental illness. And you've got a lot more— I don't work with hoarders, but you've got a lot more stuff going on. So that's the extreme of it.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. I like that a lot because it does sound like it keeps us in this comfort zone. And even though we might be uncomfortable there, it does prevent us from failing or succeeding or whatever is creating more anxiety or potential anxiety. We, we save ourselves from that. So obviously we've got mental clutter, we got physical clutter, we got emotional clutter. Similarities here? Are there similar— I'm sure there are differences, but what are the similarities?

Well, like, so I believe that the inner reflects the outer. So for example, if you have depression, there's a good chance it's going to cause clutter. And if you have clutter, it's a good chance that it's going to cause depression. So it's been my experience, whatever's going on inside of you is going to be reflected in your outside environment. Now physical clutter is kind of obvious. That's all our stuff. It's stuff we don't need, stuff we don't use, it's stuff we don't love. We might be holding on to other people's stuff. That's more common than you think. And so it is our physical items. Another place that people get hung up easily is memories, right? Oh, you know, I can't— my— that was my grandmother's. I can't let that go. And your grandmother's not in that object. Grandmother's in your heart, and your grandmother's in your head. But we get confused. And we place it on the object. So that's an area, uh, for physical clutter where we start to get jammed up.

That's a great point. I'd like to emphasize, I mean, highlight that. That's really important. The memories are inside, not in these possessions, these, uh, material objects. Sure.

Right. And you know, another time and way that people get jammed up is someone dies and they feel like they have to keep all their possessions. And I've worked with multiple people. I had one I had a client, for example, her whole basement was full of boxes from her parents and she hadn't touched anything in 20 years. And, you know, it was causing friction in the relationship because the husband's like, look, I want a work area. And she was like, but I feel so guilty. I'll feel so guilty if I let that go. And what I have said for years is, and that I truly believe this, when people go on to the next adventure, they want you to be happy. They don't want their items to become a burden to you. I would— my mom died on August 9th. I was with her when she died. And it was reinforced to me even more. So then she doesn't want me to have all this stuff or worry about her things. And, you know, it's been great giving them away to people who can really use, like, clothes, for instance, or shoes or whatever. And so that guilt that you feel isn't real. That's not the right way to say it. It's real to you, but it's not what they want for you. They want you to be free. They're out of their body. They're free wherever you think happens or goes. But a lot of people like, no, I can't let this go because then they'll be upset with me. I don't believe that. They want you to be free.

Yeah, yeah, kind of the linking object. It's sometimes that linking object, and we hold on to those connections through these boxes of clothes or belongings, kitchen things. So some comment I often hear is that, well, I might need this stuff someday. I mean, how can I Why should I get it? Just, I don't want to have to buy it again. I mean, I've had those thoughts myself. I got garage clutter. So I'm thinking, well, I might need this again. What do you say there?

Great question. And you are not alone, first of all. So don't— so be gentle with yourself. What I say to that is trust that you will get what you need when you need it. So let's talk about your garage. So you have a tool you're like, oh no, and you haven't used a tool in years and you let it go. And let's say you do need it. Well, then you rent it, or you see if a neighbor has it, or you see if you can trade or do something. You know, there are always these options. It's not like you're going to be left without anything, and especially if you haven't used it in years. And that goes back, right, because that's— I don't want to use the term hoarding because that's, that's kind of not a the correct use, but in some ways it is like, oh, hoarding on hold of stuff. Because what if I, you know, run out of money someday? Or what if something happens and we, you know, lose everything? You know, there's a little bit of that thread going on. So can you trust that you'll get what you need when you need it?

Yeah. Yeah. That's great. That's great. There's a little bit of security holding onto that stuff, but at the same time, you have to evaluate what are the, what's the likelihood that I'll need this again? And if so, I'll find another way to.

And you have to ask yourself, what is it costing me to keep this clutter? Is it costing me peace of mind? Am I having a fight with my spouse? You know, is it taking up valuable real estate? Could I be getting some money if I sold it? You know, what is it costing you?

Sure, sure. Well, let's take a closer look at this emotional clutter. A lot of feelings we hold on to, memories, as you said, you know, Do we forgive and forget? Do we hold on to these? Where does this start? Why, why, why does it kind of feel so strong? Why does it persist in us?

Well, you know, emotional clutter can be things like jealousy, the baggage that you bring to your relationships, not expressing yourself, not sharing your true feelings. It can be knee-jerk reactions. I'm betting everyone that listens has maybe accidentally cut off someone in traffic, another person's gone insane and starts yelling and screaming at them. That's not about being cut off in traffic. That's about whatever else is going on. Maybe they haven't expressed it. So I believe it persists because we either lack awareness. Oh, I don't— I'm not aware that I stuff my emotions with food, or I'm not aware that I get angry at the drop of a pin. You know, most people lack self-awareness. And I don't say that to be facetious. It's true. You know, it's not like we learn this stuff in school. It's not like a lot of people spend a lot of time on. So, you know, especially if you're in that victim mentality, it's always someone else's fault and it's never anything to do with you. So many people lack awareness. And then the other part of that is not taking action. Maybe someone's like, you know what, I'm stuck in my life, but I don't— how do I express myself in a healthy way? Like, I don't know how— what actions to take to be able to move forward. Does that make sense?

Yeah.

Yeah. It sounds like a lot of this then is stuff that we have, we're not even aware of. We're not aware of how much baggage or luggage we're carrying, and yet it still spills over into communication or how we express ourselves. Is that a fair statement?

Absolutely. I was probably in, I was living in Los Angeles at the time and my younger brother, my baby brother's 8 years younger than me. And I don't consider him like, he's not into, I'm the weird sister and all that. But he looked at me one day and said, you see yourself as a victim. And in that moment, I could hear him. And I'm like, huh, hmm, that sounds right. But what does that mean? Where do I go from here? And so that kind of started my journey of personal development to learn more. What does that mean? How does that affect me? How does it affect everything around me?

Yeah, so we have to be open to that awareness, whether it comes from somebody else or We have these insights, whatever. We have to be open to that. And what does it mean to acknowledge it and to own it? And understanding that it's not gonna, you know, it's not the end of the world to, to feel like, oh gee, I have acted like I'm a victim or whatever.

No judgment. And judgment takes us down that rabbit hole. And if we go down that rabbit hole of judgment, then we're not taking action to move forward and release it.

That's right. That's right. Yeah. The judgment does get in the way. It adds that extra layer of complexity to it. And that, that's a trap, I think. Sure. This is very helpful, by the way, Julie. You've talked about spiritual clutter. Let's, let's take a closer look at that. What do you mean by spiritual clutter? What is it? Where does it come from? Does it affect us as we age? Is it more common in older adults?

I believe it is based on my experience. And I shouldn't say more common. What I would say is, if we're so lucky to continue to age and get older and be around, we have more time. Again, not everyone, but as a general rule, you often have more time for reflection. And so looking back on your life, maybe what I have done differently, but when I talk about spiritual clutter, I talk about things like forgiveness, about having gratitude, things of that nature that I think are really important. And, you know, like, my big spiritual clutter that I'm working on this year is releasing resentment. Because I'm, you know, like, I'm still grieving my mother. I'm resentful that she's gone. I'm like, you know, you died too young. I— we moved back with the expectation when we first realized we're going to move back, you were supposed to be here. And then, you know, the house we bought they were dishonest. And now I've got mold in the basement, and I'm dealing with all this stuff. And I'm angry. And but I don't want to hold on to that bitterness or resentment. So that's about me. And so that's what my big spiritual homework is for this year.

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I like to talk about things that we can control and things we can't control. And I know, when I work with patients, a lot of times people would look back and regret what they've said in the past or things they've done in the past that they feel guilty about or, you know, maybe disappointed about or, you know, shame— shameful about. And I always say, look, you can't change that event, that's done. You can't change the past, but you can change your perception of it. And we can, you know, understand that maybe at the time that's all we could do, that was, that was the best we could do, that seemed like That was something that was right at the time, and maybe today we do it differently. But I think that's what you're talking about, understanding we can't change it, but we can change how we interpret it, how we explain that to ourselves today.

And the present moment is our point of power to change. If there's something— I remember reading, gosh, ages ago, I was in my 20s, uh, Julia Cameron's book, was it The Artist's Way? And so she had all these different exercises. And so one of them was I had to write 5— I wrote 5 thank-yous, like, just to random people in my life. And I'm actually laughing because one, they live across the street now. She was someone that I wrote to. And then 5 people that you want to apologize to. And so, like, for instance, I wrote to someone in high school and said, you know, I felt when we transitioned from junior high to high school, like, you know, we weren't as close friends, and I feel like I did something wrong. And I just sent it with no expectation and got this really lovely letter back. Now, that's not always going to happen, but, you know, at least I made the effort. And, you know, you're never too late to do anything like that. And again, love yourself as you are, whatever you're capable of doing, you know, any step you can take. And if you aren't ready to write a letter, that's okay. But maybe you write a letter that you never send, or maybe, you know, you get those thoughts down on paper, something that allows you to move forward.

Yeah, I think if we spend too much time with the emotions, they stay strong and powerful and destructive. And it's okay to, you know, just let go and take the next step and say, okay, I can't do anything about that anger, that resentment, I'll let that go. Because it is, it's limiting, it's handicapping, it protects us from, you know, that kind of uplifted, energizing outlook on our life. So yeah. Let's take a closer look again about this protective function. I, I really think, like you said, it's kind of a comfort zone that we can put ourselves in, and we don't want to— we don't want to give it up because we don't want to face the unknown. We don't want to face the unfamiliar. That's what comfort zones are so great at. They, they're predictable, they're familiar, they allow us this kind of safety and protection. So what do you recommend to people when we talk about, hey, let it go?

Well, you know, when all else fails, just breathe. That's what I like to say. Close your eyes, take a couple deep breaths, become present. Because like you said, the past has happened. You can't change that. There's nothing that you can do about that. And say, you know what, I did the best I could at the time, right? I'm— someone asked me something the other day, and I said, I don't like to use the word mistakes. I consider them lessons learned, you know, because mistakes, this negative thing, and I'm a bad person, and we can go down that spiral. But just let it go. If you did the best you can, acknowledge that and move forward. And then say, okay, I'll do better. I'll learn more about myself. I'll do more personal development work. It doesn't do you any good to hang on to it. And I've lived this. I used to beat myself up all the time about every little thing. I should have done this, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It is not a good place to be, you know, especially if something has happened. And there was abuse as a kid, you understand why some of these things happen, right? That, you know, probably if you were abused as a child, you had nothing, you had no control over that. And sometimes these manifest into adulthood. So that's the time to be gentle and loving with yourself. And I did the best I could, and accept that and move forward.

Yeah, that's good. I like the way you say that. Be gentle with yourself. Be gentle with yourself. That's good. So we hear a lot about people these days having to downsize and having to give up furniture. They have to move to a smaller place, or maybe a spouse dies, or their children move away, and they don't, you know, they have to give up their large home or whatever. That's a big issue. And I know there are a lot of very good, sound organizations that help people with that. So what are, what are your kind of words of advice on how to go about downsizing our belongings? You know, prized possessions, like you said, you know, we have pictures of our family, our grandparents, you know, things that were handed down, maybe jewelry. How do we, how do we learn to let go of some of that?

Well, first of all, and I can't keep all the— I don't know if I'm Generation X or Z or M or whatever, all that stuff going on, but whatever the kids in their 20s are, they don't want the stuff. You know, and so people are figuring that out. Now, my first advice is start now, even if you don't think that you're planning on downsizing, because if you have a— you've lived in a house 40, 30, 50 years, you have a lot of stuff, especially if you haven't cleared any clutter. So my first advice is start now. The other thing is making rushed decisions and not thinking through things like— so for example, we left I'll shoot myself. I will never be in an HOA again. It was the craziest. I felt like I was in some— it was just, just beyond ridiculous. But maybe you plan to have an estate sale and HOA says, oh, you're not allowed to, or, you know, so know those things, or you're going to say a 55 and up community. So maybe you don't need all your sports equipment, because they have a rec center and have all that stuff. So do your homework. Make sure that you think through your choices. Something that's really important. If you have the funds, I'm going to encourage you to hire someone. I have a family member and they are not a hoarder, but they have a lot of clutter. And I said to the sibling, I said, I can't get there to help you. I am happy to do things virtually. Do not go in. And I found someone in the area and I said, here's someone that I trust that can work with you. They didn't listen to me and now they're not talking because they went in there and got rid of a bunch of stuff and the person felt incredibly violated. So if you're able to get help, don't be judgmental, you know, that's— or go in there and say and make decisions for other people. If you, if you're able to make the decisions, great. If you're working with someone, just be aware of that and make sure that they are part of the decision. Making process. See, the other big thing is underestimating the emotional part. You know, I'll use my mom as an example. So my mom loved Christmas, and she knew that in— that 2020 was going to be her last Christmas. I ended up— we threw her Christmas in July, July 25th. We did one last Christmas for her. But when she was putting away ornaments, she wanted to reminisce she wanted to talk about them. That wasn't the time to rush her through any process. Right. And so there was that emotional component. So you have to be aware that, make sure that you can honor it as much as possible. That's why I'm saying start now, because there's nothing worse than being like, I have to get out of this house in a month. And especially if you haven't done anything and you have years of accumulation. So being aware that it's also, you don't want to be indecisive. Now is not the time to be indecisive. So you're just gonna have to make decisions. If you've done your homework, you know, you have to figure out what am I going to keep? What am I going to donate? What am I going to sell? What am I going to give away? Who's going to hire me to move? You know, that's a lot.

Yeah.

And then I would say that you want to have a backup plan. When we were moving, we had hired containers. And I'm like, okay, I'm gonna have a week for us to pack. So everything's nice, we're not rushed. Well, they didn't show up till 2 days before. I had no control over it. And even though they, they didn't push our leave date, so meaning like we had to leave when we originally planned. So what are you going to do if that happens? You know, what are you going to do if the moving company doesn't show up? Are you going to have a backup plan? So I think that that's very important. I also believe we've talked a lot about the physical stuff, but where else now can you downsize in your life? Like maybe you need to downsize your doubt, right? Your entire life, you've been like, I want to write a book. But I don't think I can do it. So what do you need to downsize mentally? Whatever it is, look at where you can downsize it. You know, I'm talking about downsizing my resentment this year. That's my big spiritual goal. So it's not just about the physical stuff. Bring that into your life. What else can you downsize and release?

That's great. Yeah. So downsizing is also evaluating and saying it's not useful to me. I don't need that anymore. The doubt is not useful, let me get rid of that. Yeah, yeah, and I especially like the, you know, the fact that we know the younger generations don't want a lot of the belongings, they don't want the books that we've collected, they don't want the china and, you know, whatever. So I think there's got to be a— it's a, it's a real balancing act between being indecisive and, you know, allowing the emotional process to run its course because we can be decisive and, you know, say we're going to jettison all these things, and then we say, oh geez, I really— I should have thought about that longer. Maybe I should have found somebody who— anyway, that's a delicate balance. I can see that, right? Yeah. So there's no easy answer there, but being decisive is critical, but also trusting yourself that sometimes you just need time to let it go.

Yeah, that's why I said at the beginning, as much time as you can. So like, if even if you're not planning on I go through everything we own every year. Yeah, everything. But because I'm on top of it, it doesn't take forever. Because I'm like, bam, I can, you know, sometimes get a room done in an hour. And I was realizing as I was thinking about this, that I was like, so we downsized when we moved, we had planned to retire in North Carolina and downsize that and then came up here. So in the past 2 years, we've done 2 rounds of downsizing. And then as I was thinking, I'm like, when you went, moved east to California, downsized. And then when you moved California back east, you downsized. So there have been, you know, a couple times throughout life that I've downsized. So it's just not necessarily an age thing. But, you know, do what you can. If again, you're not moving, go through what you own. And the first time you do it, if you've never done it, it's going to take time. But once you get over that initial physical clearing, you can do it quickly.

Yeah, yeah, it's very liberating, isn't it? Yeah, the other thing we haven't mentioned is, uh, you know, being attached to these material possessions. If you've ever had your home broken into and things stolen, you learn that you can't be too attached to these material things because, yeah, they can be replaced, or maybe you don't even need them, but that emotional attachment sometimes is is, um, fleeting, right?

Yeah, absolutely. But then that invites further digging. Why am I so emotionally attached to my stuff?

Yeah, yeah, that's right. We like the minimalist approach, the Zen approach here. Yeah, yeah. So tell me about your books. You've written a lot of books. That's great. I mean, what do you— what's your, what's your message that you like to impart to your readers?

Well, it's about clearing your clutter to create the life you desire. So I have, based on the podcast, a book called Clear Your Clutter Inside and Out that has a companion workbook. And we look at physical, mental, emotional, spiritual. And that's a little more handholding. I go into more detail. And then I have 12 books, I believe, a journal prompt series, because we all have the wisdom within. And when I work with someone, it's just about bringing out that wisdom. They know what's best for them. So like I have relationship, holiday, physical, mental health, all that good stuff. And so what I do is talk about how to create a goal, how to set it up, and then you answer the questions. And one thing that I did differently that I hadn't seen in other journal prompt books is like a legal pad. I have a little line with the lotus. So once you answer the question, then I invite you— because people have clutter, they're overwhelmed— I invite you go back through and pick out what's most important. And what you answered and put it over here. So that's one step to make it easier to get you more focused, to get you more clear, to release that clutter. And then the book that just came out is a 21-day challenge for those who are just like, I'm overwhelmed, or like, okay, we're gonna take 21 days, we're gonna have awareness in each subject and take action. And then we're gonna move forward.

Well, well, so it's kind of a journaling process as you start to unfold and start to look at, examine some of your patterns. That's great. And you have a website?

I do. It's reawakenyourbrilliance.com.

reawakenyourbrilliance.com. That's great. That's great. So what would you like our listeners to take away from today's show, Julie?

That to see the bigger picture of clutter, because it's anything that preventing you from creating the life you desire. So the pile of papers, might prevent a promotion. Awareness plus action equals change. When we have both those, we can create the life we want. That they are good enough, worthy enough, and loved no matter what. And you're never too old to start anything, and the world needs your gifts more than ever. So share them.

Well, beautiful. That's great. That's a great message. Thanks so much. Very educational and kind of eye-opening about clutter and all the different forms of clutter. Well, it looks like we're out of time for today, but before we wrap up, I just want to remind our listeners about a co-sponsor for our program, A Mighty Good Time. Are you looking for ways to engage and stay active? Check out amightygoodtime.com. It's a one-stop shop for events and activities for those 50 and over. It's free to search and it's free to post. Amightygoodtime.com. And be sure to visit the Living to 100 Club website to sign up for weekly podcast announcements and monthly newsletters. And while you're there, be sure to download a free copy of my 9 Tips for Living Longer. Lastly, pick up a copy of my book, Living Longer Is the New Normal, all about maintaining a positive mindset in all we do. It's on Amazon as an ebook and as a hard copy. So we've been talking today with Julie Coraccio. Julie, for those who might want to contact you, what's the best way to do that? Through your website?

Through my website, it's got email, phone number, and I also offer a free assessment so they can figure out their clutter priority and what area they want to tackle first. And I've got an action item with each depending on what their, their clutter priority is.

Great, useful information. So Reawaken Your Brilliance, .com.

Yes.

Okay, well, thanks so much again for being a guest on our program, and thanks to all of our listeners for tuning in today.

Thank you.

Hi, this is Suzanne Newman, host of the Answers for Elders podcast and radio show. We are the North Star that guides you through the complicated journey of senior care with trusted experts in money, law, living solutions, and more. So join us on this station, your favorite podcast channel, or just go to answersforelders.com. Meet the wayshowers who will help your journey go a lot easier.