Knee Pain Getting Worse? Here's What's Really Happening
In this episode of the Living to 100 Club Podcast, host Dr. Joseph Casciani interviews Dr. Jenny Leduc and Dr. Thomas Andriachi, co‑creators of Nemo, a smart knee wearable that uses motion‑timed vibration to reduce pain and improve quadriceps function. The conversation begins with the guests’ professional backgrounds—Dr. Andriachi’s 50‑year career bridging mechanical engineering and orthopedics, and Dr. Leduc’s biomechanics research and clinical‑trial experience. They discuss the massive global burden of knee osteoarthritis (≈375 million affected), its typical onset in the 50s, and how pain leads to quadriceps inhibition, shorter stride length, and a vicious cycle of inactivity and joint degeneration. Nemo’s technology is explained through the Gate Control Theory of pain: timed vibration delivers non‑painful sensory input that “gates” pain signals while simultaneously stimulating quadriceps activation during walking. Compared with traditional knee braces, which restrict motion, Nemo encourages movement, aiming to keep users active. The hosts review two clinical studies—a 21‑person single‑day trial and a 38‑person month‑long crossover trial—showing significant pain reduction, improved quadriceps use, and higher activity levels, with participants using the device an average of three hours per day. Target users include people with chronic knee pain from osteoarthritis, prior ACL or meniscus injuries, post‑total knee replacement, and even young athletes such as ultra‑long‑distance runners. Nemo can be used independently or alongside physical therapy, and it provides remote usage data to clinicians. Pricing is a $499 one‑time, non‑prescription purchase (FSA/HSA eligible), with plans to seek insurance reimbursement. The discussion ends with broader implications for longevity, workplace health, and the importance of staying active for overall well‑being.
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Welcome to the Living to 100 Club Podcast. Here's our host, Dr. Joseph Casciani.
Hello and welcome. You're listening to the Living to 100 Club Podcast where we explore the psychology of aging well. I'm your host, Dr. Joe Casciani. Each week I speak with experts and thought leaders about how to stay resilient, purposeful, and engaged, because growing older isn't just about adding years, it's about shaping them with intention. This podcast is part of a broader Living to 100 mission, helping individuals, families, and professionals approach longevity with clarity and confidence. After all, aging well isn't accidental, it's practiced. And that's what this podcast is all about. You can learn more at livingto100.club. Now let's get started with today's program. In today's episode, I speak with Drs. Jenny Leduc and Thomas Andriachi, co-creators of Nemo, an innovative smart knee wearable designed to reduce pain and improve muscle function during movement. Knee osteoarthritis affects millions of adults and often begins silently decades before symptoms appear. As cartilage deteriorates and pain flares, many people reduce activity, accelerating quadriceps weakness and joint instability. The result is a cycle that threatens mobility and independence. Our guests explain how Nemo uses real-time motion sensing and targeted vibration to enhance function of the quadriceps muscle while walking. Before we get started, let me do a little background, uh, description. Thomas Andriachi is president of SomaTech Design Inc., co-inventor of NEMO, and an emeritus professor of mechanical engineering and orthopedic surgery at Stanford University. Over his 50-year career, Dr. Andriachi has led pioneering research in knee joint biomechanics, translating scientific insights into practical clinical solutions. Jenny Ledeck is Chief Operating Officer of Somatex Design and co-inventor of Nemo. She holds a doctorate in biomechanical engineering from Stanford University. And brings over 20 years of experience in musculoskeletal biomechanics research and clinical trial design. Welcome to our program to both of you. Thank you.
Thank you.
Oh, great, great. Glad to have you with us today. Let's start with some questions about your background and motivation. Jenny, can you share your journey from orthopedic research into product development?
Sure. Um, my— Tom was actually my PhD advisor. That's how we met at Stanford. Um, and when I first came to Stanford, kind of in this biomechanical engineering, my project was a clinical trial of a shoe for knee arthritis. Um, the shoe was designed to modify loading at the knee. So really, from the beginning of my biomechanics journey, I was lucky enough to see how lab research could be translated into an actual product to help people, in this case, that had knee osteoarthritis. So after I finished my PhD, I continued to do research, as you mentioned, at Stanford and also at the Veterans Affairs Hospital. And I continued to work with Tom studying knee pain and conditions like osteoarthritis and ACL injuries and meniscal tears and looking for ways to really noninvasively reduce pain and also improve function. And I also spent some time at a couple of medical device companies. And as you mentioned, my background, I also have a background in clinical trials. And there I was really helping with the clinical research to be able to show that the products were doing what we hoped they would do, right, and designing the studies to do that. So I really kind of love that process of taking a research concept and bringing it to a physical product that can help people. And so it's nice to be able to pair the biomechanics background with that in product development. So it's been a, you know, a good journey since my very start.
Yeah, the research is important, but it's also important to bring that research to the public, to the consumer.
Sure.
And Tom, what inspired you to launch a technology venture after retirement?
Yeah. Well, it's, It actually started a long time ago. You know, I got my PhD in 1974 as a mechanical engineer, and I read an article in Time magazine that said the coming epidemic of facing the older age population was osteoarthritis.
Mm-hmm.
And they described it as a wear and tear disease. And I thought, I'm a mechanical engineer. I know about wear and I know about tear and I know about mechanical things that break down systems. So I said, I can possibly solve this problem quickly with my great engineering theoretical background.
Yeah.
So instead of going in and working in industry with a degree in mechanical engineering, I decided to take a postdoc in an orthopedic department. And that's how I now have a joint appointment, or had, between mechanical engineering and orthopedics. And what I found when I was in the orthopedic department, that the theory I had learned in mechanical engineering didn't quite solve all the problem. And in fact, we still don't know the fundamental cause of osteoarthritis.
Mm-hmm.
So I said, well, maybe I can look at how to deal with symptoms. And I said, well, I'm still a mechanical engineer. Let me look at it from a mechanical point of view. And you know, the beauty of being in an orthopedic department is I could see what was happening in patients that got the disease. And one of them was in, in a wear and tear sense, the knee joint in particular was vulnerable to the conditions that were similar to a tire wearing out. The cartilage wears out under the knee. And I said, well, maybe it's an alignment problem. 'Cause I saw a lot of patients with knee osteoarthritis that their knees were malaligned. I thought just, and so I studied that and it, I found out that there wasn't a direct relationship between their alignment and whether the disease progressed in them or not. So there was other factors involved. And in fact, Jenny mentioned the shoe she worked on. That was kind of to dynamically realign the knee the way some patients did to avoid the disease from progressing. So what I found is it was a mechanical system that we could address. And that led me to look at a lot of different mechanical issues and the complexity of osteoarthritis. And the very last project I had at Stanford was one where we could overcome some of these major problems by actually creating a device which is now called Nemo.
Yes.
That let the patients figure out, or that figured out how the patients could change the way they walked to reduce the risk of the disease progressing. And it had a lot of theory behind it that included not just mechanics, but neurophysiology and other things like that. Which we might get into a little bit as we talk.
Mm-hmm.
But the basic finding was, you know, cuz it, it, it was so complex related to other methods. We said we had to do a clinical trial cuz I didn't know it was gonna work in a clinical trial. The clinical trial was so successful that I couldn't retire even though I was at the age when they, they said it's time to go out to pasture. And I love doing this so much that I, I didn't want to retire anyway. So I started a company and then Jenny got involved and it was to develop Nemo to make it available to a lot of people, which I think is gonna really be helpful for, and we can talk about a little bit about the way that helps people as we go on. But I wanted to keep doing this. Basically, I'm 78 years old right now and I'm not gonna quit.
So, all right. That's a good number. I like that number. Yeah. Yeah. So, How common is knee osteoarthritis? And when does the actual degeneration begin?
So if you think about chronic knee pain in general, it's estimated about 1 in 4 people suffer with chronic knee pain that limits activity. And then if you're really looking at, like, age 50 and older, the most common cause for this chronic knee pain is knee osteoarthritis. And as Tom already mentioned, it's a chronic joint disease. There's no cure for it. It can affect all parts of the body. So the knee, the hand, the hip. But the knee is the most prevalent joint that is impacted by osteoarthritis. It's estimated to impact about 375 million people worldwide who have knee osteoarthritis. So it's a huge global problem. And what happens within it is, as Tom mentioned, the cartilage or that smooth surface on the ends of the bones gradually wears away. And you have other changes within the joint as well. And when that happens, You get pain, functional limitations, stiffness, and there is no cure. So there are treatments to help try to alleviate pain, but there is no cure to reverse knee osteoarthritis. So typical onset would be in your 50s, but it does affect younger people as well. So if you've had something like an ACL tear, which is a pretty common sports injury, or a meniscus tear, that places you at an increased risk for developing knee osteoarthritis. So in about 10% 15 years after you have an injury like that, about 50% of people will have symptoms of knee osteoarthritis. So if you have an ACL tear when you're 20, that means by the time you're 35, you could potentially have knee osteoarthritis. Yeah. So it, it's a big global problem.
Yeah, there's a pretty, pretty high incidence of this, of this condition then. So I know a lot of your focus has been on the quadriceps and How does chronic knee pain contribute to quadriceps atrophy or disuse?
Well, you know, one of the things that happens with knee pain is you get an inhibition to use the quadriceps. It turns off. And what happens also is, because Jenny and I have studied how people walk with knee osteoarthritis, and one of the things that really emerged from a lot of conditions that cause knee pain is you walk with a shorter stride length and a straight knee. You don't let bend your knee during the, the part of stance phase when you're walking. And by doing that, you don't use your quadriceps as well. So by not using them, they, you know, like any tissue in the body, if you don't use it, it atrophies, it disappears or weakens. And, um, And so what we also found, and not just from our own studies, but even in studies of rehab and, and therapy, is that one of the key issues in, um, uh, treating osteoarthritis or even ACL injuries, like Jenny mentioned, is the loss of the quadriceps. And if you can restore those in rehab, which can be difficult, it, it will help the prevention of the pain, the disease progressing like osteoarthritis. And it's a benefit for the patients. So we thought, well, now can we do something that gets people to use it not just during rehab or doing an exercise in the clinic, but while they just go out and take a walk or do other activities, play pickleball even.
Mm-hmm.
And we, we tried, you know, a lot of different approaches. And this one where we apply the vibration at different phases of the walking cycle, um, will stimulate the use of the quadriceps and take away the pain during movement.
Mm-hmm.
And, and so, um, it helps cuz even if someone is going through rehab in the clinic and then they just go out and walk and don't use their quadriceps, the rehab doesn't take as well as it would if they're using it every day. So, um, there's another fringe benefit of what Nemo does, and that's what it does in terms of removing the pain that they have when they walk, because they now have a device that they can go out and take a walk and it doesn't hurt. So they don't have as much resistance to to maintaining the normal activities of daily living. So, and that's common, that reduced quadriceps function is common to every condition that causes knee pain.
Yeah.
So that's interesting that that's really the principle behind NEMO where reducing activity accelerates the decline.
Yes.
So your approach is to interfere with that reduction and contribute to more activity, right? And that's—
yes.
Yeah. Yeah. So, um, just without getting too much of the technology, the, the Nemo technology involves vibration, and that, uh, kind of stimulates the quadricep muscle, or how does that work?
Yeah, so Nemo, um, It's based on the principle behind how it works. It's based on something called the Gate Control Theory of Pain. It's a scientific theory. It's been around for a lot of years, right? First introduced actually back in the 1960s. And what this theory says is that the way that our brain perceives pain isn't just about the intensity of the pain signal, but it actually can be influenced by other non-painful inputs. So something like vibration, and that can actually influence how much pain is perceived by our brain. Brain. So the way, like you mentioned, Nemo uses vibration that's timed to movement. So the way this helps to reduce pain signals in our brain is our body takes in different signals like either pressure or touch or vibration, and it sends those signals to our brain along larger, faster nerve fibers than the nerve fibers that pain travels along. Those travel— pain signals travel along smaller, slower nerve fibers. And so what happens, you can almost think of it like a traffic jam. If we are using a non-pain painful vibration and kind of flooding these nerve pathways, the vibration is faster. So that is what reaches our brain and it blocks some of the pain signal from reaching the brain. When I kind of describe it to people, sometimes that doesn't always get it through. So I like to say, like, in your own life, you probably are using gait control theory. I'm pretty clumsy, so I often am smacking either an elbow against a countertop or a hip, and I often find I will rub instinctively the area around where I just hurt myself. And you're actually doing gait control theory on your own. You're sending your brain signals of touch that are faster than the pain signals. And so you can kind of reduce the amount of pain that you feel. So Nemo's using that same principle, just using vibration and timing it specifically to your walking cycle.
Okay, so the Nemo really has two basic effects. It stimulates the quadriceps or allows us to use the quadriceps more efficiently. And it also helps to reduce the pain that's incurred with that movement. So how— I think it's a great product, by the way. And I know we talked about this in our earlier call, but how does this technology compare with knee braces or other approaches to knee pain?
Yeah, so we—
Go ahead.
You want me to take it? Is it okay?
Yeah. Yeah.
I'm losing my voice anyway.
You know, we named Nemo for what it was designed to do, keep your knee in motion. If you think about traditional knee braces or those knee sleeves, they're really something that is trying to restrict movement to reduce pain. Nemo's really kind of taking the opposite philosophy. It is actively working with your movement to reduce pain and keep you active. So we want to keep you moving and have you have normal function. Traditional braces, you know, they're supportive, but they actually restrict movement and they don't promote activity. They aren't something that is promoting activity. Whereas with Nemo, it's providing the vibration, but only if you're moving. So it is specifically designed to keep you active and to reduce your pain while you're being active. And, you know, activity has a whole host of other benefits. You know, Tom mentioned and he touched on. So our design principle was to make it something that would reduce pain during activity and keep you moving.
Yeah. So what are the braces good for then if they don't encourage walking or those compression sleeves? What, what are they for? Just to keep our knee kind of out of balance?
They give some stability to the joint.
Oh, stability. Yeah.
And they also, um, The compression is a way of using a bit of the gate control theory as well, because if you press on a certain area, it will be similar to what a vibration does, but not— it doesn't have the power of the vibration. So the vibration really shoots up those nerves that go to the brain and help, uh, sense pain. And it's, it's one of the more sensitive things, um, that, um, Yeah, provides that gate to knee pain. One just brief, uh, also addition to that is that, um, the way NEMA works is it, it, it, um, either dilutes the pain or gates the pain on the neural pathway to the brain.
Mhm.
It doesn't matter what's inside the joint that's causing the pain. So a lot of treatments like medicine or even surgery might focus on one tissue in the knee and, and try to repair that. They might work and it might not, but usually the knee is a complex joint and it has a lot of structures in it that, especially when you get arthritis, would degenerate and cause pain and inflammation. Now, so certain treatments focus either on inflammation, like drugs, some drugs do, or certain tissue in the joint, or it's like stability. Some of the braces will even change the alignment of the knee.
Uh-huh. Okay.
Nemo doesn't care what the source of the pain is because it's gating it.
Oh, oh, you just froze, Tom. Yeah. Uh, he should come back. Jenny, can you pick up with that? That doesn't care about the source.
Oh, he's back.
Okay, you froze for a second there, Tom.
Oh, okay. Did I hear—
you're just saying, uh, you stopped where Nemo doesn't— it doesn't matter what the source of the pain.
Right. Yeah, yeah.
So gating it farther up is, I think, what you were going to say.
Yes, it— so it gates it. It doesn't matter what the source of the pain is. Because it's, it's gating the, the wires that send the, the signal up to the brain, which is different than most other treatments. And it works during movement. It's, it's done.
Yeah. Yeah. So the other, the other, other approaches, other treatments really don't encourage that amount of walking that Nemo does.
I mean, that's right.
Yeah. I kind of talked about the analogy where people who have back pain tend to restrict their movement because it causes so much pain and that doesn't help them. It actually limits them further as that progresses. So it's a very similar model, it seems like. Yeah.
Yeah.
You're encouraging that movement, that walking activity. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think to build up the quadriceps muscle again.
Yeah.
Right.
Wow.
And I think many people, when they have knee pain, they have— and it's natural, right— a fear of the movement, just like with back pain. They fear making the condition worse. But research is very consistent. And it's showing that's not what is best for the knee joint, right, in terms of making sure the disease doesn't progress. In terms of helping with pain, helping with function, it's important to keep moving. And so our goal was really to— create something that would be easy to use in your daily life so that you can keep doing that.
Yeah, on a practical level, that makes so much sense. I mean, I'm a novice here, but it makes so much sense. Anything that will encourage that increased activity, because that's what we need on so many different levels.
Right, right.
Yeah, Tom, you mentioned the outcome or the research study, your clinical trial. Can you share what the results were and what you learned?
Sure. It was, it was done in a laboratory where we could test people walking with Nemo and then walking with a, a device that didn't have the activity of Nemo, which is a placebo version of Nemo. And what we found is that there was a substantial, you know, and, and we could ask them how they felt. With Nemo and most, and the results were positive, you know, but pain, um, response to people vary tremendously. Two people can have the same disease and same, but one will say, Jesus, it hurts like mad. And they go to the doctor, another says, no, it doesn't hurt.
Yeah.
Um, so that's a, that's a challenging outcome measure. So we have in the lab a method where we can pick up the way a person's walking and know that they're in pain or not in pain.
Oh, that cool.
We can know if they're using quadriceps muscle or not using quadriceps. So we can look at the motion and the forces they generate while they're walking.
Hmm.
So both measures, the subjective patient-reported outcome measure and the measurement in the gait laboratory were consistent., and showed we had substantial improvement. And the vast majority had better quadriceps function and felt better with Nemo. Visually, you could see it within minutes of, of them in the lab. They put Nemo on and their face turns to a smile. And you could see their walking improved, going up and down stairs improved. And, um, that was striking. That, that was kind of an aha moment for us and said, this thing really works.
I'm sure. Yeah.
And it kept me from going into retirement. That's why I'm doing that.
Yeah. We got life again. How many subjects?
Jane, you remember?
Yeah. So, we did a few clinical, um, studies. So, one was an initial single-day study that was in 21 participants there, and they all had knee pain and reduced from conditions that cause reduced quadriceps muscle function. Um, and then we went on and did the longitudinal study that Tom was talking about, and that was in, I believe it was 38 participants who we followed for over a month wearing Nemo and then over a month wearing the placebo that we had.
Yeah, that's a good number. That's a good number.
And there was a— it used a crossover study design. So each patient with their own control, and they didn't know whether they had our device or the placebo device, you know. So that gave us more statistical relevance to the study as well.
So you, I mean, you relied on self-report, that's subjective reports, but you also could detect or you can measure the way they were walking and that correlates with how much limitation they incur or allow. Yeah. Fascinating. Are there specific, I know you're still early in your development, not development, but progression. Are there specific patient populations that this is better suited for, Nemo?
So it's really made for people with chronic knee pain who want to stay active. Our clinical work was specifically in participants who had knee pain because of knee osteoarthritis or prior ACL tears or meniscal tears. Those are all, as I mentioned, conditions that actually also are known to impair quadriceps muscle function. And then we also did some research in post-total knee replacement subjects. And knee replacement is done at the— when you're kind of at the end of osteoarthritis, when there's no other treatments that are really giving you relief. But unfortunately, about 20% of people continue to have symptoms even after their knee replacement. So they have some disability there. And so we look to see, could we have improvements in this post-total knee replacement population as well? So we've done some initial work there. And this is also a population where— quadriceps function preoperatively actually can predict how well you do postoperatively. So we think there's potential for Nemo, both sides, right, to get ready for your surgery and then potentially afterwards as well.
Hmm. Well, so how does Nemo relate to physical therapy? Is it a replacement, a complement, or substitute? What, you still need PT or?
Tom, do you want to take that, or would you like to?
Yeah, I, I think it, I, it's both.
Okay.
It can, it, it can be used independent of PT, but when someone gets to the point where they need PT, it can complement PT. Because you go to the clinic and you get your exercises and the doctor says, or the physical therapist says, go out and make sure you walk or be active., but he doesn't know if you do or not. Nemo actually reports that.
Oh, oh, interesting.
Yeah. And it can be transmitted back to the doctor as well. So, so in fact, in our clinical trial, we didn't tell the patients we would know. They were supposed to use it, I think, was it generally 1 hour a day?
Yes.
They ended up using it 3 hours a day on average.. And, but they didn't know we were monitoring that as well. Yeah.
So, yeah. So this, the medical system, the healthcare team can get feedback about the progression of the walking activity.
Right.
Great.
Sure.
Sure. So how about for older adults or, I mean, I don't know what age ranges you've covered, but, you know, people who are haven't had terrible knee osteoarthritis, but maybe in their 70s or 80s, walking gets to them. Is it going to work for that age group?
Yeah, it is. So when we designed it, we wanted it to be as easy to use as possible, right? We, that was kind of a consideration we had that it needed to be easy to use by tech, people who are really into tech, but also people who maybe aren't as comfortable with it. So Nemo, we developed it so that You really just put it around your leg. So there's two, two bands. You put one above your knee, one below. You power them on and it automatically starts working. So it's going to automatically start sensing your movement and adapting in real time. You don't have to do anything. We have an optional app. So if you want to change the intensity of the vibration or I use it for running, if you want to say, hey, I'm going to go for a jog, you can do that in the app. And that just makes sure that it's going to continue using hitting every step that you're taking. It changes the algorithm that it uses to process the motion data slightly if you choose cycling or if you choose a sport like tennis or running. But that's optional. If you want to just go for a walk, it comes pre-programmed to work really well for that. And so we, you know, we wanted it to be specifically really easy for people.
Yeah, that's great. So if you get the app, you can really customize it more. So, yeah. Okay. What are the, what are the cost considerations? Do we need a physician order for this or how does that work?
It is not, so it's not prescription. It's, you can go right to our website and buy it. It's not currently covered by insurance, but we do have FSA and HSA eligibility and you can do that right on our website. It's a single-time cost, true single time. So even if you're using the app, there's no additional fee for that. It's $499. But if you think of it, we like to kind of think of it, it's that one-time cost and then you have it available whenever you need it. So anytime in the future you can just pick it up and use it for your daily support.
Sure. Do people ever buy two sets?
Yes.
For both knees?
Both knees. Yeah, we do. And you can, you can set the settings different on them by connecting them each to the app for what feels best for each knee.
Mhm. Yeah. And how long has it been on the market?
Uh, so it's in development for 10 years, and then we launched it last year.
Last year. Sure, sure. Uh, so you expect perhaps to get some health insurance coverage or, um, kind of reimbursement from health plans?
So it's, um, something that's definitely on our radar. It's, you know, that's an endeavor to, to do. Um, but it's something we think is important, and so we're We've been looking into that and speaking with some experts to find out what options there might be for us.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's certainly more of a preventive device, so I could see where Medicare should seriously consider this. I mean, the alternatives are, you know, in, in disability and possible surgery, knee replacement. I mean, the prevention aspect is really powerful here.
Yeah, also looking to promote it to companies where the workers that are subject to getting knee pain, like UPS delivery people and, and things like that.
Yeah.
And, uh, we're just initiating, uh, some activity in that area as well because it could be a big benefit to them in terms of lost workdays and, uh, just happier workers too, you know, cutting up their work. It kind of feels good when you wear it, the vibration.
Yeah. I could see postal employees. I mean, they have feet and knee problems all the time.
Oh yes. Amazon places where they do a lot of lifting and flexion of the knee.
It's a great device. What would you say to someone who, who's avoiding walking because of their terrible knee pain? What do you, how would you advise them?
Buy a Nemo.
Buy a Nemo. Okay. Quick answer. Yeah.
I mean, I think for me, I understand the instinct, right? You feel like you're protecting yourself, but all the research is showing that the inactivity is actually working against you, right? It's weakening the muscles. It's putting you into this cycle, right? The cycle of less activity, which weakens the structures around the knee and eventually leads to more joint degeneration. So I think finding ways to stay comfortable and stay moving is really important. And you look for solutions that work for you. Yeah.
Yeah, you're right.
Yeah, I mean, the person who says, well, it's just too painful. I'd rather stay at home and sit on my sofa and I can avoid that unbearable knee pain. You're saying what? Try it.
Right. Try it. I mean, I think there's so much research. It's not just joint health, right? Movement's important for joint health, but movement's so important for our overall wellbeing. It's important for our mental health. It's, there's, you know, your sleep. There's so many wide-ranging effects that movement has. And, you know, you're not just doing a disservice service in terms of your joint health. It's the whole body.
Yeah, that's a good point. You're not just avoiding knee pain, you're, you're adding a lot of other consequences from that inactivity. That's a good point. Yeah. So what excites you both most about this, this technology in older adult care? What, what do you see in the future?
Well, I think one of the big things is that It's, I mean, knee pain is one thing, but as Jenny mentioned, it helps your overall body health. You know, if you can get out and take a walk, your cardiovascular health, health is better. Obesity is under control perhaps with more activity, type 2 diabetes, you know, there's a lot of secondary benefits to using it. We're also interested in the spectrum of people that it can benefit. It. It, it, you know, it's, it's was initially targeted for osteoarthritis, but we've got some very young people. In fact, one of our interesting users, I call him Forrest Gump. He's an ultra long-distance runner. If you remember in that movie when Forrest Gump ran across the country, um, this guy looks like Forrest Gump in a way, but he, he is a strong advocate he uses it to— it overcomes the knee pain he gets after long-distance runs. He's able to rehab faster. And anytime he has symptoms, he uses it and he recommends it to other runners as well.
Yeah.
He's a younger guy. Our oldest user is someone after total knee replacement that he, he had technically a successful knee replacement by x-ray. It looked good.. But he had severe pain where he could barely go out and take a walk after the knee replacement. Well, he uses it now every day because it takes away his pain when he goes out and takes a walk. So that's a spectrum of things all the way from an ultra long-distance runner to someone post-total knee replacement that just wants to go out and take a walk, you know?
Yeah.
And everything almost in between.
That covers a lot of territory. You're right. Right. That's a broad continuum. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, we don't think about athletes like that or people who are wanting to stay healthy and keep, you know, stay at their peak performance level. Yes. So that's important. Yeah. I like the whole notion of the longevity though, because we know activity and physical activity and exercise is critical to longevity. And it does have ripple effects when we're out socializing and connecting all the physical benefits, the cardiac and, you know, the metabolic effects.
So, oh yes.
Yeah, that's huge. That's huge. Yeah. Well, I think you've got a great product. I think it's, I'm so glad you've been on my program to share this and I'll be sure to get it out to, to the public. And I just wanna ask you, how do people learn about your program and what's the website? Where can they, where can they go?
Yeah.
If you want to find out more, our website is the— excuse me, the Nemo, so thekneemo.com. You're always welcome. There's a contact there to reach out to us. Tom and I would see that. If you have any specific questions, please reach out.
Great. The Nemo dot com. Yes. Well, thanks to you both for sharing your experience and your insights, and I wish you much success on the sale of this because I It's more than individual knee pain benefit. It's really way beyond that. So thank you for doing that. And thanks to our audience. Thanks for spending part of your day with us. If today's conversation resonated, I invite you to continue exploring the work at livingto100.club. Join the Living to 100 community at livingto100.community, or discover practical tools like my Better, Longer, and Happier series at livingto100.solutions. Until next time, stay curious, stay engaged, and keep shaping your next chapter. Thanks to both of you again.
Thank you.
Thanks for having us.
Yes, you're most welcome.
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