Learn How the Principle of “Resonant Frequency” Can Save Your Energy

Welcome to the Living to 100 Club Podcast.

Here's our host, Dr. Joseph Casciani. Greetings to everyone today joining us for our podcast. You're listening to the Living to 100 Club, and I'm your host, Joe Casciani. You You can find this conversation and all past podcasts on our website, livingto100.club. In addition to my podcasting, I'm a public speaker, and I present to community organizations and senior groups on topics related to aging well and managing setbacks. And on my website, you'll see options to sign up for one-on-one resilience coaching for anyone wanting more personal time to talk. I also provide consulting and training on clinical topics like depression and dementia. Now to our podcast where we discuss successful aging, staying positive, and making more informed decisions. Our guest for today is Dr. Shu Simon. In this conversation, we will translate a physics principle, resonant frequency, into practical everyday applications for the 50 and over. Population. Could our attempts at aging wellness, like physical fitness, diet, social networks, mindset, bring us diminishing returns if we're out of resonance? Stay tuned. First, a little background. Dr. Sue Simon had completed her PhD in science and was on track for a research-intensive academic career when she followed her husband to Washington, DC for 2 years as a government contractor. She also learned along the way that although her PhD training showed her how to think deeply, and to create new knowledge, it did not address the challenge of integrating that knowledge into the larger society that really needs it. So she augmented her education by earning an MBA in global business. Now she uses her combined technical and business acumen as a public speaker, entrepreneur, executive, educator, parent, and coach. She uses formal mediation skills and basic science principles to empower people to hear and work with their own internal wisdom so they can filter out what's not working and make room for what does. Chu, welcome to our program today.

Much chu. It's a pleasure to be here.

Great. Glad to have you with us. I always like to begin by asking our guests to tell us briefly about the journey that took you to where you are today.

Well, I will tell you exactly how I got into science. And in fact, I was inspired by the older population. So when I was much younger, I was living in Houston, and I read in the Houston Chronicle about this fascinating study. So in Houston and in the South, you drink iced tea and you have your choice of sweet iced tea or unsweet iced tea. And so what these researchers did is they came and they went around to retirees and they just asked for stories, and they would give the choice of either sweet tea or unsweet tea. And it turns out that the depth The richness and the accuracy of the stories that came from the people who chose the sweet tea just far surpassed the ones that chose unsweet tea. And so the conclusion is sugar is good for your brain. And here I was, 12 years old, loving sugar, thinking, oh my goodness, science can teach me what I love.

Wow. That's great. Great story. I didn't— I've never heard that. It's nice to know sugar enlivens our storytelling.

Yeah, it does. So I pursued science for a very long time. I went to get the PhD and I love teaching. So I went into academia and I was going to become a professor and that was absolutely my dream. And along the way, I fell in love as people do, and I fell in love with somebody who got this fantastic opportunity to be a government contractor in Washington, D.C., and this is specifically for scientists. And so I thought, well, I want to be with this person, I can do this job, why don't I do it too? And it ended up being so fascinating and so fun, but What it taught me was I was in a government office, and this was a government office, the Anti-Chemical Weapons Office, and I was the only scientist in this scientific office. And it was fascinating to me. They hired me for my scientific expertise, but my scientific expertise was so different from what they expected and what they needed that I really felt like it was a struggle to even get myself heard. And I thought that that struggle was fascinating. So it was because of that, that I went back, continued my education, got my MBA, and put everything in context.

So an MBA in global business, that's a curious topic. What does that prepare you for?

Honestly, that prepares you for everything.

Oh, wow.

In one, in a certain sense, uh, I was taking a step backward, but really, I guess I will say that I was taking a step step up in elevation so that I could look at the world through, uh, just from a higher level. So the MBA in general, it teaches you how business works. We live in a capitalist society. How does money work? How does energy flow? And that is something that underlies everything that gets you to make a living. As far as global business goes, I was really intrigued by the global aspect of my government job, and so I wanted to keep that international aspect.

Yeah, yeah, I could see that, especially today. It's so much beyond the national line of thinking what an MBA does for you, but an MBA in global business, I can see that really opens up the whole world because that's where business is these days. So, um, we want to talk about this principle, the Resonant Frequency Principle, and, um, tell us about it. What got you interested in it? What's, what's it all about?

Funny, what, uh, Concepts stick with you, um, and stick with you for so long. So I'm not even going to tell you how many decades ago I read that sugar study, but it was also decades ago when I just first heard about the concept of resonant frequency in a physics class. And I loved it because what resonant frequency means is there are some machines that work best when you apply some sort of force to them but only at the correct time, so at a certain frequency. But if you go too slow, they're not going to work too, uh, as well, and if you go too fast, they're also not going to work as well. So what your job is for these machines and their, for example, their springs or their pendula, your job is to figure out what frequency works best for them and then apply that frequency so that they can do the work.

Frequency also being the amount of force that's used?

Well, the frequency is really about how often you apply the force, and it's not really how hard you push. And I'll give you one example. In the military, it's now customary to break stride when you're crossing a bridge, and the reason for that is historical, and it does have to do with resonant frequency. There was an army that was marching across a bridge in formation and they were marching at what happened to be that bridge's resonant frequency, and so the bridge was swinging back and forth and it ended up being so violent, um, that the bridge broke down just by the force of a bunch of foot movement, just a bunch of foot traffic at the right frequency.

So the amount of times the steps were being taken, or that's the amount of force that's being added, and it's the pace of those steps that caused to reach resonance.

Exactly.

It was in his such a perfect uniformity that it affected the resonance for the bridge.

Yes.

Yeah. Well, this curious topic, curious topic. So let's explore this a little bit. How do we, how do we learn from this? And I know when you and I spoke, we used, used the example also of pushing a swing. If you push it too hard or if you push it too soft, it's not right. But if you push it just right, it gets the best flow and the best amount of swing. So how do we apply this principle How does it apply to other situations?

I often apply it to a work situation, and I will say, work at your resonant frequency. And what I mean by that is, if we go to a job, we go to our first job, and we're working for someone else, and there's an expectation, there is perhaps a 9 to 5. This is when you're working. When you're working, you are at work. You might even have breaks built in, but they're tiny breaks. And if you need to use the toilet, it is for these 5 minutes every 2 hours and that is it. And for me, that was— that felt like an external pressure applied to something that wasn't working well for me. If I need to take a break, if I need to eat, if I need to do something, then it makes more sense for me to pay attention to when I can work, when I have the energy, and when I can be productive than to let somebody else dictate that.

Okay, so you're out of frequency when you're trying to force your system, your body, whatever, into this external situation. If you're allowed to work freely and apply your energy the best times for you, then you're in resonance. But you're out of— you're— you may be out of resonance with what the expectations are.

Yes, exactly.

Yeah, yeah. So it applies to beyond physics. I mean, it's really the notion of fitting into a system that is compatible with what you're— how you're operating. It's not just a machine or not just a bridge or swing, but it's really fitting into a system that, that either accepts your resonance or doesn't accept your resonance.

Yes. And I think you said something really important about the resonance with the external system. So an external system is going to want— it's going to pressure you to work harder or to need less. And that's often maybe somebody else with a controlling behavior or a work system that is set up for factory work when in fact what we're doing is intellectual work or something that's, uh, out of alignment. And what I think people are likely to misunderstand about working hard is when you are not working with your own system, how it works best, you can put in a lot of time, and still not get a lot out of it. Whereas if you're paying attention to what it is you need and to your own rhythms, then you don't feel like you're putting as much in because the system is working with you.

Let me share just a personal example. Years ago, I was skiing with a friend, really enjoying the day, having a great time, and he was starting to wear out a little bit. And I was encouraging, hey, let's go, let's get back up there to the top and let's, you know, continue our day. And he eventually didn't fit with my residents and he had a bad fall and sprained his ankle. Uh, is that, does that apply? Is that, or is that too far of a leap from what you're talking about? I expected him to fit into my system and it didn't work.

I think that is a perfect example. And I'm so glad that you gave an example of when you were trying to apply your frequency to someone else who was done before you were.

Yeah, this is helpful then. Good, important conversation here. So we talked about expectations and our expectations of more doesn't get us more. What do you, what do you mean by that? We create these expectations. I want to, I want to shoot an 85 in golf and that doesn't necessarily get us there. What do you mean?

What I mean by that is we tend to procrastinate when I don't necessarily mean procrastinate by we have a goal and then we don't work on it. But we have a goal and we expect to just put in a lot of work and be able to get it. When in fact, when you're trying to reach your goal, a lot of times what helps is to develop little habits that feel like almost nothing. And then it's that accumulation of little habits that will finally get you to your goal.

Okay. We're trying to get from A to Z and we really need to go from A to B.

Exactly.

Yeah. So a goal that's out there, rather than just reaching for the goal, we have to break it down into these mini goals or mini steps. That's what you're talking about?

Yes.

If we expect to get there without breaking it down, we're going to be frustrated. That's out of frequency. That's also out of— we're not in resonance with that system.

It could be. Let's take the example of losing weight. So there are formulas to help you lose weight as far as if you're taking the calories in versus calories out model. So if you want to lose a lot of weight very quickly, and most of the time, if we decide to lose weight, we want to lose the weight tomorrow. So what we do is we just stop eating enough. And then what that does is it throws our metabolisms out of alignment. And it gets all sorts of other things out of whack. Whereas if we do want to lose weight, then it's a much more healthy and sustainable way to do it, to make small adjustments that we almost don't notice so that we're not wasting our mental energy on this goal that we want so quickly.

Sure. Yeah, that's helpful. That's, that's again, going from A to B instead of going from A to Z, because even when we reach Z, sometimes it, as you said, we'll talk more but it backfires because it's not sustainable. We didn't go through all the letters of the alphabet, so to speak, to get to Z. We're jumping ahead and it doesn't, it doesn't work. Our body is out of whack in the case of trying to lose weight. Yeah, that's, that's interesting. So, um, you're applying this physics principle to so many aspects of our day-to-day lives, and a lot of it is that expectation of doing more, pushing harder, or expecting others to be on board with us is the example of when I was skiing, expecting others to be in the same resonance as we are. Um, it's fascinating. So you also talked about crosstalk. What is crosstalk and how does that come into the picture?

Well, crosstalk has a lot of definitions, and I'll tell you what I was thinking about crosstalk, and then we'll see if that aligns with your definition of crosstalk. When I talk about crosstalk, I usually think of unnecessary noise. So if you're talking about a signal-to-noise ratio, when you've got crosstalk, you end up having a lot of noise and it's distracting. Now, when you talk about crosstalk, is that the same thing or is there something else?

Um, no, I, I, I think it's not such a physics kind of description, but it's similar where there's that kind of many messages coming through at once and not being able to sort through them. Yeah, so how does that apply to this, um, resonant frequency principle? Does it come into play here?

I think it does. So if you've got a lot of crosstalk, if you've got a lot of distractions going on, that messes up your flow. And you can tell when you're in flow. In fact, maybe you can't tell while you're in flow because you're so engaged in what you're doing that you're not even really noticing. But psychological flow is what I think a lot of people would call— would say to describe my resonant frequency term. This is when you are going, you are making a lot of progress, but you almost don't notice it. When you have a lot of crosstalk, when you have a lot of other external stimuli, they're almost physically getting you out of flow. They're inputting a different frequency. They're inputting something that's not relevant. And so that's getting you out of alignment.

So how does that apply, for example, to weight loss? You said if we stop eating and our whole body doesn't, you know, doesn't adjust to that, we might lose the weight, but eventually we regain it because it wasn't a systemic change. So crosstalk is just more pressures, more, I don't know, more anxieties, more negative emotions about that. Where does crosstalk Sure.

That could be internal. All of the things that you were talking about, the negative emotions, the ambiguity. I also see a lot of crosstalk in, uh, external pressure in societal pressure. So I think eating is a very good example because eating is so social. So then who is the one who is in charge of preparing the food? Who is the one who is in charge of eating the food? And if you are not doing both, then what kind of relationship you have to the person who is making the decisions? And are they keeping your priorities in mind? Do you have the energy to really advocate for what it is that you want?

Yeah. So it creates a lot of noise in the, in the, the planning and the goal seeking. I mean, it creates a lot of that interference.

And while we're talking about food, I will point out one of the things that I think very differently from nutrition experts, and this is simply my resonant frequency, but most nutrition experts tell you to stay away from buffets. And the reason that you stay away from buffets is because there's a huge variety of food and you're compelled to try all of it in reasonable quantities. I love buffets for how they make me feel, and the reason is When I see the whole variety of food, I can hone in on just the very few that I think work well with what I'm feeling like eating right now. And I can eat as much of them as I want. So I don't have to fill up on empty carbs. I don't have to do what somebody else put on my plate.

Those narrow selections are meeting your, your frequency. They're meeting It's— you're eliminating a lot of that external noise by all these other items that you may or may not enjoy, and you know what you do enjoy, so that's where you zero in.

Yes, you're right, and it's key to eliminate the noise.

Yeah. So what about taking something like exercise? People want to go in and, you know, be physically fit and, you know, healthy and stamina endurance and, you know, all of that strength training. Any tips there? And obviously we can overdo it, we can underdo it, if that's a word. Any tips there on exercising so we don't create this kind of out of resonance?

Yes, I do have some thoughts on exercise. And here I will point out one of my credentials. I'm an American Council on Exercise certified group fitness instructor and personal trainer. And so I have seen clients, and the one thing that I have noticed about what's important for exercise is sustainability. If you feel— this is in fact one of my favorite examples of seeing so many people outside of their resonant frequency. There's so much pressure to, if you're going to the gym, really push it, work so hard, make sure you're— no pain, no gain— make sure you're sweating. And that's a recipe for injury. And if it's not injury, then it just puts you in such a negative mind frame before you get into the gym. And I've seen so much more success from people who don't overdo it, who only exercise to the point where they are having fun so that they enjoy it and they come back day after day, week after week, and then they turn the exercise into the habit and that exercise becomes who they are.

Yeah. I'm thinking as you're talking, Sue, this is really a metaphor for, I mean, the whole notion of resonant frequency is really a metaphor for kind of this optimal flow. Connecting with something where we really feel at our best or at our optimum level. It's not necessarily a physics kind of term. You're taking the— you're extrapolating from the physics term to all of our other day-to-day situations. Is that fair?

That's extremely fair, yes. And the only real advantage for me in thinking of it in terms of physics is it gives me permission to think of this as a fundamental system that is worth paying attention to. It gives me permission to say no when somebody's pushing me too hard.

Yeah, that's good. That's helpful. That, that takes it out of just this kind of theory or recommendation or opinion, but there is a scientific basis to this in all aspects of our life. Yeah. And I really liked the description of the, um, The fitness, you know, going to the gym, because I had a gentleman on my podcast just a couple of weeks ago, and he talked about strength training and how important it is to, you push yourself for a very limited time until you, you know, exert your muscles, and then you stop and you give your muscles a day or 2 or 3 days to kind of rebuild because you're breaking down the muscles with that strength training. And you give yourself some time off. And, you know, I thanked him for giving me extra time in my my schedule now, but it, it's exactly what you're talking about. We don't have to push ourselves every day to complete exhaustion. Of course, it doesn't, doesn't do much for sustainability, but it also doesn't do very much for reaching that state of resonance. Does that make sense?

It does. And in fact, you're right. If you start working your muscles before they're completely rebuilt, you are just breaking them down again. You are not letting them take the signals that you gave them, which are build up because I'm going to keep using you and you're going to need to be strong. You're really just wearing them down continually. And that's called overtraining.

Overtraining. Sure. Yeah. And that applies in so many areas. I can see that. So what about striving? What about— I know this doesn't necessarily come into opposition to resonant frequency, but Striving can be good, but sometimes it can be taxing and maybe we're out of our resonance. How do we know the right amount?

It's a big question, and I can tell you with 100% confidence that we know the right amount after we've done it wrong. So in hindsight, we do know it. As far as striving goes, if you realize that you are working harder than you want, but there is an end in sight, The, the important thing I think is to really give yourself the break. I think of overextending yourself to a, to a certain extent is fine, but you still at that point then you are going to need the break. You are going to need, if it's exercise, you're going to need your muscles to rebuild. If you're up too late, then you're going to need to catch up on sleep for however much you can. If you're connections. If your family is suffering because you're not there, then reconnect with them. It's— I don't mind a small amount of overworking. What I do mind is turning that overworking into the new normal and then never getting to recover.

The workaholic who's never, never satisfied with his or her performance, always pushing, working late, getting up early, getting to the office early. All of that. That's, that's what you're talking about. So it can backfire. And as you say, it's, it's got to be hard to find that place that we're sitting right, where it's, it's set for us. It's hard, hard to find that place. And you say you find out, uh, while you're— as long as you're doing it wrong. Is that what you said?

You'll notice when something is wrong, or you notice when you wish you would have done it differently.

Yeah, well, what's the difference between that and Just saying, I haven't reached it yet. I have to keep trying. I mean, we notice we're— it might be noticing that we're doing it wrong, but we, we might not think of it that way. We might say, well, I just haven't reached my goal yet. I've got to keep pushing.

For that, I would take a look at which direction you're going towards your goal. Does it feel like the more you're putting in, the farther the goal goes away from you? Like, is it such— is that elusive goal that you're working so hard and you're never going to get it, then I think you might be going— you might be overworking. You might be beyond your resonant frequency. If you would like the goal to be reached but you haven't done it, but every step you take does bring it a little closer and it makes it a little more visible in its whole system, then I think you're going closer to the the optimal frequency.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's helpful. I can see that. That's the expert. When we use the expression, we're moving the goalposts, we think we're at the, you know, getting close, 20 yards, 10 yards, and we're there. Or is the goalpost continuing to be moved? And, uh, oh gee, I'm, I'm, I thought I was making headway, but I'm not. It's, and that's a good way to differentiate between what's real progress versus this endless striving. That's good. So how do we, how do we go off track? What happens when we're, we're in sync and everything's working fine, and then we find out that, um, gee, we've lost that place of resonance, we've lost that, you know, synchrony with the system? How do we know, you know, what causes us to go off track?

A lot of what causes us to go off track is not really knowing what— whether it's our own internal messaging or whether it's the outside world telling us what to do. So I think that there can be such a great tension between what's expected and what we think works and what we think is a really good idea. And so I like to stop when I find myself frustrated. Usually it's frustration for me when I'm out of resonance, and then I will take a step back and think, what is my opinion, and am I actually going for my opinion? And if I'm not, why not? Who is so important to me that I am following their goals instead of mine?

So that's the measure to use if we're not feeling like we're making that headway. Is that because it's externally imposed or We just need to continue from our internal direction and not using the outside approval or, you know, measures, external parameters to perform, but really stick to our own. And that's how you differentiate when it's in sync and when it's not in sync. Yeah.

And to be fair, society is important. Bosses are important. Family members are important. Sometimes they are going to take precedence. Over you. I'm not saying to be completely selfish and internal, but just to be aware where your priorities are in any given moment.

Yeah, so that's a requirement to constantly monitor and readjust, you know, tone down or turn, turn up the pressure based on a balance, a good balance between what we want and what the externals are. This is, uh, this is very heady. I mean, this is— I, I, I can easily apply it to golf because if we're trying to, you know, surpass what we think we can do and continuing to push ourselves, maybe comparing it to our partners, that's gonna— that's, that's gonna blow up, right? That's, that's not gonna work. But if we're only looking at improving where, where I am today versus yesterday or a year ago, That's where we want to be. It's just looking at our own internal measures rather than the external pressures. I can see that, but yeah. And of course it applies to other areas beyond golf and, you know, beyond pushing a swing. But I think this is helpful because it does break down kind of trying to tune into feeling frustrated and feeling like we're not making that headway. And really asking ourselves why, really trying to understand why we're not making that progress. Is it because we are usually maybe pushing ourselves too hard?

I would like people to at least consider that if they think that they're not going hard enough, it's at least as likely that they are going too hard. So look both directions.

Yeah. So we might think we're not going hard enough, but in fact, we might be going too hard. For example, can you think of anything that pop out in terms of making friends or social contacts? Is that, you know, we want to stay involved. Maybe in our senior years we're losing friends or losing loved ones, and do we pressure ourselves to find new contacts, or are we pushing ourselves too hard? We draw some conclusion there.

I think the social contact are an excellent way to think about this because some social contacts are going to make you feel good. Like, in fact, people will say, I resonate with that person. They're not stealing my term. It's true. You can tell when you're with someone that feels good, and sometimes you're with somebody who doesn't feel good, and it can be exhausting to look for a group of people or a connection that feels good. And what you're doing is trying to make enough connections until you find that, but what you're doing instead is exhausting. Like perhaps you're— you need to take more time for your introverted self and you have just exhausted your social energy and you will never find that person because you yourself are exhausted.

So the fix there is to continue To reach out, continue to make contacts until you feel that simpatico?

I think so. So yes, continue to reach out, but don't reach out to too many potential contacts in one day. Reach out, make a bid for connection. If the bid for connection doesn't work, okay, that's too bad. You'll try someone else, you'll try another group the next day., but not necessarily stay up too late to keep going to different groups and see if you find that compatibility.

Yeah. Knowing we need to pull back and let the muscles rebuild, so to speak, and pull back and take ourselves out of that pressure striving. Well, so how do we know, how can we stay resonant? I mean, what's the message for our listeners? What do you, what do you think we can do just to, in general, stay in that place of resonant frequency?

Well, sometimes I'm not sure that it's sustainable to keep searching for the resonant frequency and try to stay there, because that's— you're chasing your tail again there. So what I think we can do is when we find it, we can recognize it and we can acknowledge it. And as far as a recommendation to really pay attention to what it is that you are feeling and what you need, the recommendation is always meditation. Now here is where I'm going to point out that yes, meditation is good for you, and also you can overdo it. So even with meditation, there is a sweet spot. And so if you think that you're not in tune with yourself, that doesn't mean, okay, now you need to go on a meditation retreat for 3 days if you're untrained. Try it, be okay if it doesn't work, be okay if you still need to practice, but you don't necessarily need to pile practice on practice on practice. Habits for a long time can be more powerful.

Yeah, be aware of the external pressures and the striving again and the expectations that we're going to reach this meditative state after our first week. Yeah, so get out of those expectations. Take the pressure off ourselves.

Notice where you are and acknowledge that as opposed to where you're not.

So one takeaway you'd like to leave with our audience, what would that be?

Well, one thing we didn't talk about that I think is really important is the concept of boundaries.

Oh, great.

And I think this can be extremely important as people get older because as others start taking more of a caretaking role. They're not necessarily in tune with what you need, and they're going to try to push their agenda not knowing what your energy and what your needs are. And so I would really like to give people permission when they find that happening, when they find this benevolent person who is overruling their life, just to say no thank you, to understand when the answer is no and say no thank you.

Yeah, of course, that's on both sides of the caregiving, or on both sides for the person that is expecting more from the individual who needs help, and the person is saying no to the person who's trying to give the help. That's a whole big conversation in itself, isn't it? So the recommendation there is to try to have that conversation so you can meet at some place of residence for both parties.

Yes, that's true, to have that conversation, to have it kindly, but still to have it firmly. It's not your job necessarily to give yourself up to take care of someone else. And you're right, that's on— it sounds like I'm talking about the caregiver, But I can be talking about the recipient as well.

Sure. Yeah, because that's got to create a lot of dissonance, a lot of friction so many times. We've both seen it, I'm sure. So creating those expectations, those demands, and not recognizing what the limitations are, especially if the person has some kind of cognitive deficits that we expect the person to understand. Or, you know, I just told you when we're— when lunch is, or there's a lot of that opportunity for friction and, you know, just that dissonance that really interferes with the caregiving. That's so— I mean, that happens in any relationship, right? I mean, it happens in a marital relationship, it happens between adults and children, it happens whenever there's that expectation on one side or reluctance on the other side to be a part of that system, that that resonance, that place where both parties can kind of come to some understanding of each other. Yeah, this is, this is a big topic, but it really breaks it down. It hits— I think it's helpful to understand that there are times when we can be pushing too hard or expecting too much, either of ourselves or of others, and it does cause that condition of, you know, being out of resonance. Yeah, that's good. That's good. Any, any final thoughts before we wrap up?

No, this has been such a pleasure.

Yeah, great. Well, thanks, Shu. You know, we've been talking with Dr. Shu Simon, and before we wrap up, I just want to remind our listeners about a co-sponsor for our program, A Mighty Good Time. Are you looking for ways to engage and stay active? Check out amightygoodtime.com. It's a one-stop shop for events and activities for those 15 and over. It's free to search and it's free to post. A Mighty Good Time dot com. And be sure to visit the Living to 100 Club website to sign up for weekly podcast announcements and monthly newsletters. And while you're there, be sure to download a free copy of my 9 Tips for Living Longer. Lastly, pick up a copy of my book, Living Longer Is the New Normal. It's all about maintaining a positive mindset in all we do. It's on Amazon, an ebook or hard copy. Well, thanks very much again, Chu, for being a guest on our podcast. For those that might want to contact you, how can they do that?

Well, you can find my website. It is shufits.com, and I will spell that out. It's X-U-F-I-T-S dot com. And I am shufits_speaker on Instagram.

Great. Thanks again for being a guest on our program. And thanks to all of our listeners for tuning in. Hope to see you next time.

Hi everyone, this is Meredith from the Senior Fitness with Meredith podcast, where I discuss all things for seniors, from fitness, your health and wellness journeys, how to be all over strong and beyond. I also have my mini podcast called Motivation with Meredith. It's a great quick motivational pick-me-up for your days. Join me, listen now, search for Senior Fitness with Meredith on your favorite podcast platform.