Nutrient-Dense Living: Affordable, Health Meals for Seniors with Kimberley Gillan

Welcome to the Living to 100 Club Podcast. Here's our host, Dr. Joseph Casciani.

Well, hello to everyone joining us today on our podcast. You're listening to one of our Successful Aging episodes this month on the Living to 100 Club program, and I'm your host, Joe Casciani. On each program, our conversations educate and inspire, helping you get the best out of all the years we're given, regardless of what obstacles come our way. You can learn more about my club at my website. And be sure to take a look at my new training and activities manual, Better, Longer and Happier: A Guide to Aging with Purpose and Positivity. It's a series of 12 modules in a card deck format developed for activities directors at senior living communities and other organizations. You can visit my website at livingto100.club blh. Now on to our podcast. In today's episode, we welcome Kimberly Gillen, author of How Low Can You Go? Nutritious Meals for $30 per Week. Kimberly shares her expertise in balancing nutrition, cost, and flavor on a tight budget. From nutrient-dense meal strategies to navigating chronic illness, Kimberly emphasizes the power of resourcefulness and mental resilience in overcoming food insecurity. Discover practical tips for healthy, affordable eating and how these insights contribute to successful aging. First, a little background. Kimberly Gillan has a background in economics, policy and strategy planning and uses her practical knowledge to find new answers to old questions, such as what is the lowest price you would have to pay for food without compromising on nutrition, or what are the key ingredients in a laundry detergent. In answering these questions, Kimberly uses fundamental economic principles to come up with revolutionary answers on what your minimum spend should be in order to live your best life. Kimberly lives in far north Queensland, Australia. Kimberly, welcome to our program today.

It's a pleasure to be here.

Great, great. I'm looking forward to our conversation. I always like to open by asking our guests to tell us a little bit about the journey that brought you to where you are today. I know you've covered a lot of ground, but what are the highlights that stand out to you that brought you to, to where you are today?

Okay. I, I'd have to go back. I'm, I'm 57. I think it's useful to know this sort of timeframe, but I won't go into too much detail. I, uh, I can remember going back to when I was a young mother. I was pregnant with my second child. And I, uh, I had a 4-year-old daughter, and my husband could no longer work. He'd been injured in an accident. So at that point in time, um, we were reliant on government to support us, and my daughter was diagnosed as being anemic. And of course, it was immediately fixed But I felt like I was a terrible mother. You know, I felt that I had really let myself down, my family down, and I really worried that somehow I'd done some harm. And of course, that wasn't the case. She went on to do really well and went to university, and she's thriving today. But that, that feeling of having being a bad mum translated into me when my second child was a few— was 2 years old, returning to university. And I studied, uh, I did a planning degree, a master's. I ended up doing a master's degree, but my, my real area of focus was food security. And the reason I looked at that is because I could see the correlation between and a reduced income and not being able to feed yourself properly, having had that experience myself.

Sure.

So, and sadly enough, when I, in 2015, two teenage children, and I've just moved into a house where I've borrowed the maximum amount, I'm on a really good income. I think food security could never impact me again. And I'm diagnosed with cancer.

Yeah.

So I was earning 70% of our income, and I had to stop work, uh, and work in the years since has been like working for someone else, has been very patchy. And so, yeah, maximum amount, two teenage children and all the pets, and suddenly there we are once again. So yeah, that, that's, that's my— sure, my background. I had both the academic, I worked in the field, and yet I saw for myself just how vulnerable anyone can be.

Yeah, well, we, we take these journeys and we have a lot of life lessons, and how can we use this information? How can we use this learning? To benefit ourselves and benefit others. So you wrote a book. What prompted you to write the book? I mean, we touched on it, but you wrote the book How Low Can You Go, and how did your personal experiences shape this particular, uh, product or, or production?

I guess, I guess, you know, the cancer journey On two occasions, I was told to get my affairs in order. I like to say to people who tell me this now, just be careful because the field of cancer treatment is changing so rapidly that you can actually live with what was once a palliative disease. I, I think that's shaped a lot of things in terms of you, you think, what can I contribute? Why am I here? And a big part of it for me was my studies in food security and my personal experience meant that I knew that food prices are only going to increase. We know this and we've known it for a long time in the food security space that food affordability is going to continue to be a problem, particularly for people on fixed incomes. And I guess it means more because I've been through it, but I just really wanted to share the knowledge I had. It meant a lot to me, and I knew that had I gone through the journey I'd been through in 2023, which is when I wrote the book, we wouldn't have held on to the house. We wouldn't have made it. And so I really had to, it was as, it was as if I was compelled. I had to sit down and go, okay, those were the strategies I used almost 10 years ago. What would I do today?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

So, so the book captures what you've learned and how to stay healthy on limited income. If your dollars are short, you can still find ways to generate, provide, create healthy, nutritious meals. And that's what your message is. That's, that's a really important message.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So we talk about— I know when we talked earlier on the phone, you spoke about nutrient-dense meals. Help us understand, what do you mean there?

I think the first thing to recognize for all of us, whatever your income level, is that food is medicine. Food is the building blocks of your own body. And so the first thing food has to do above and beyond everything else is provide you nutrition. It can be easy to forget that in the modern world, but that's its job. And so I looked to nutrient-dense foods. For example, you might look at parsley and go, well, you know, I'm gonna cut parsley out. That's relatively expensive, but I can get a bunch of lettuce instead. But parsley has so much more nutrition in it.

Hmm.

A sprinkle of parsley over your meat can do wonders for you. The lettuce is good for you. I give it a C+. I give the parsley an A+. That's what I mean by nutrient dense. Learn to know what your nutrient dense foods are, and particularly look out for the cheaper ones. Things like frozen peas, they're quite cheap. They're bulky. Peas, when they're frozen, capture a lot of their nutrition. Those are the sorts of things that I consider nutrient dense. If you compare peas with zucchinis, for example, zucchinis are good. I give them a C plus, but they do not have the same amount of nutrition, the same bang for your buck that you will get from other foods. So it's not just, I've got to fill my belly. I've gotta start being smart about the choices I make so that I pack as much nutrition in as I can.

Sure. So how can we learn about these nutrient-dense food? Where, I mean, you're talking about peas being more nutritious than lettuce or parsley more nutritious than lettuce. Where do we learn this? How do we, how do we know when we're looking? Our choice.

Yeah, well, that was the whole crux of my book. Okay, you see, okay, I did— I went into, uh, food composition tables, and you've got to understand, I'm, I'm not a dietitian or a nutrition expert. My background is economics and food security, but the information is readily there for anyone. But it's a— it's like trawling through numbers for weeks on end.

Okay.

Um, and it's been backed up since by medical professionals, including a nutrition scientist. So the whole idea is the, the book provides it there. I can give a, some quick information now because I want that information there available to everyone.

Yeah.

And, um, some very quick things to tell your listeners. That'd be great.

Can you share that?

Yeah.

Here's some more examples.

Yes, absolutely. I'm more interested in getting people thinking about this than anything else. The first one is your tinned fish. If you eat, and sardines in particular, they're brilliant. And I know that for some people that's a challenging food, but you got this. You can work with these foods. You'll find ways. So your tinned fish, your milk patty.

Tinned fish? What do you mean by tinned fish?

Tinned or canned fish.

Sorry. Okay. Yeah, of course.

My accent. Sorry.

No, my, my—

So canned, canned fish such as, such as sardines, mackerels, especially those bone, those fish with the tiny bones in them.

Mm-hmm.

It's actually the cheapest form of calcium. And ladies, when you are over 50, you need a lot of calcium. So Excuse me. So skim milk powder, you know, we, we, we often go, oh, we don't like the flavor of skim milk powder or powdered milk, but it's got such a broad range of nutrition and you can use it as a cooking ingredient and you can do things such as making it up it as milk in a jug and adding a tiny dash of vanilla essence or imitation vanilla essence just to help you over adjusting to the new flavor. And that's exactly what our oat milks and our almond milks did early days.

Okay. So good ideas. Um, so the powdered milk, any other, uh, Yes.

I'll list off a few rapid fire. Okay.

I think this is very useful for our listeners. So that's why I'm pinning you down for more specifics.

I hope they really go with this. Mixed frozen vegetables. We underestimate filling your plate with mixed frozen vegetables and get creative with it. You can make them taste great. And pulses, honestly. Now, what I mean by the pulses is garbanzo beans or chickpeas, lentils, split peas, your beans. And chickpeas in particular are kind of the— which I think you guys call garbanzo beans. Are the, the one of the superfood heroes.

Yeah.

Um, in, um, food security because they cover such a broad range of, uh, nutrition that there are papers out on how we're going to use chickpeas to help us through those periods when crops are volatile. When your fresh meat and other produce are not readily available. So I keep a kilogram bag of dehydrated chickpeas in my cupboard. If we were facing another pandemic, that's the first thing I'd go looking for in the supermarket.

Well, okay. I've heard that the fluid or the, um, what is the, the juice that accompanies these canned beans, especially the garbanzos, is especially nutritious. Is that, is that correct?

The cans are. The reason I'm in favor of the dehydrated variety is that you're still dealing with a living product. People don't realize it. You can reactivate those dehydrated beans and grow sprouts or microgreens. The canned product's already cooked. There's a whole variety of things you can do, and if you want to, you can open the packet and it'll still be there. You know, it's not like you have to keep the packet sealed in the way that you have to keep the tin sealed. The other thing is that it's okay, it has to be soaked overnight or, you know, soaked in the morning for the evening. Sure. Um, but to me that's not a big deal. What you're spending for the same amount— I've done a comparison on the amount of chickpeas in a tin or the amount of beans in a tin versus the dehydrated amount if I do them myself, and it costs about 25% less. I mean, sorry, it's 75% less.

Yeah.

So that can make a big difference in, in small budgets. That's a, but one quick tip, the brine in your chickpeas, whip that up and it'll work the same way as egg whites.

Yeah.

Don't throw it away.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's what I heard. Yeah. So that's interesting. So the dehydrated chickpeas, garbanzos, I mean, that's similar to any of the dried beans that we soak before we use them, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So yeah, the beans, garbanzos, lentils, those are all very healthy and especially healthy because of their nutrient qualities, right? Yeah.

Yes.

Can you give us some, maybe some tips on how to maintain a balanced diet for older adults? What, what comes into the picture there without having to overspend.

Okay, um, I started by looking at what Western dietary guidelines, you know, require. So I created meal plans throughout the books for different age groups because one size does not fit all. We, we have different requirements at different stages of our lives, and men and women can have different requirements at different stages So I would say that most of the time we are eating sufficient amounts, but I would like us to think about it more. So that's what this book does, basically. It's not a case of— what I will say, just a short quick fix for your listeners is Most of us aren't getting enough zinc or enough, um, vitamin B12, especially if you're on limited funds, because vitamin B12 is everything that comes from animals, whether it's milk, eggs, butter, meat. So vitamin B12 and zinc are particularly challenging, and we need to consider our sources for those. And that's why I say milk powder, because that's super cheap. But also, I, I suggest things like the tinned fish, and that will tend to cover it. But of course, you don't want to do that every day. And that's why you— I've got a table at the back of the book that goes through 18 vitamins and minerals and provides you with, I think, 10 options, and then there's more on the website. So, and those on the back of the book are the 10 cheapest in terms of what they provide.

So the zinc and the vitamin B12, especially necessary for older adults as we age. Yes. You know, I think what we're talking about is we know a lot of the ingredients for healthy eating and nutritious meals, but What you're adding is an important factor, and that's it doesn't have to be expensive. It doesn't have to cost a lot to bring this nutrition into our meals and to learn how to find things that are just as healthy, maybe healthier, that are low cost. And, you know, what otherwise might be more expensive. Like fresh fruits and vegetables, they can be more pricey. We know that, right? And those are a lot of the food impoverished areas where we don't have a lot of fresh fruits and vegetables. And when we do, they're very expensive. So how do you balance that? How do you tell older adults that we don't need to always look for the most expensive ingredients?

I think that we've been sold the line that fresh is best and eat the rainbow. I definitely agree with eating the rainbow. Try to make sure that when you're having your vegetables on the plate or fruits that you've got the color variety. But it can be from a dehydrated source. It can be from— it can be frozen. And you can also cut back on the amount required if you're making the fresh produce, those more nutrient-dense varieties, such as choosing a bunch of parsley and putting a sprinkle over something. You need far less of it, so that saves you money. Yeah, I think that it's really important to recognize that nutrition should come first if you're on a fixed income. If you've got, you know, lots of money, you may still not be meeting your nutritional requirements because this does actually require some thought. You know, we've been told that, you know, the meat, the carbohydrates, the vegetables, and that is true, but there are lots of other ways to go. For example, did you know that if you have used a lot of herbs and spices, they are some of the most concentrated forms of nutrition there is, you know, and yet these are not calculated in. So I'm saying we should calculate them in. Because that's going to reduce your overall cost. And then you're not having to buy as many fruits and vegetables because you've used dried herbs, you've used curry powder. These things have just packed full of nutrition.

Sure. So just for my understanding, when you say nutrient dense, um, they're referring to vitamins and minerals and yes.

So For, for example, and I use my example earlier of some canned sardines, it is currently the cheapest way to get calcium. That tiny little can of sardines is so high in calcium that even milk doesn't compare with it. So that's an example, and yet it also is packed full of vitamin B12, zinc. It has, you know, a vast array of nutrition all the way through it. Um, yeah. And, and another quick one, um, Vegemite slash Bovril slash, um, oh, Marmite. I can't remember some of the— I just think Vegemite, but you know, basically your, your yeast-based breads. They cover a whole lot of what we call micronutrients, the B group family, and they do so very efficiently. And so, you know, you have Vegemite toast for lunch, you've just ticked a whole lot of boxes. Yeah.

Those are toast or crackers?

Yeah, yeah, whatever.

Yeah, I haven't seen them for a long time. I remember years ago we used to have them, but Vegemite. So, um, how did your experience— I mean, this is very helpful because you, you've done a lot of the work, you've done a lot of the background research and put it together in a very accessible way for, for your readers. How did your, your own process of going through your cancer, and treatment and recovery. How did that, how did that shape your thinking about diets and eating and nutritious meals?

I think that anyone that's been on a cancer journey or other, uh, illness where it feels like it might, this might be it, um, you feel like there's very little that you control. You're putting yourself in the hands of the doctors and This is one way that you feel that, um, you can make a difference. But it also is about, um, it's, it's also about having the, um, having the ability to go, I'm going to do the best that I can to help my, my body get through a tough journey.

Mhm.

And you come out the other side and you go, Well, it's not over now. I've still gotta get through this life and I've still got to give myself the best opportunity to be, to meet my own potential. And I think we underestimate the role that nutrition plays in, in dealing with, with chronic illness.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So it's really another level, another layer on top of the, traditional medical treatment programs for cancer, whatever that is. You're talking about changing your diet to, to complement or supplement whatever those medical treatments are.

Yeah, absolutely.

Years ago, I had a, a, a guest on my podcast who was a nutritionist, and she worked at a, a cancer program at UCLA here in California. And she spoke about the same things, that there are so many changes and improvements we can make in our lifestyle and our meals that can complement the overall treatment programs. So that's such an important understanding, I think, because as you say, there are things we can control. It's not totally out of our control. Yeah, certainly medical programs are, whatever that is, but we can control lifestyle. We can control, uh, the foods and the meals that we prepare. Yeah, that's important. Sure. Yeah. So, um, what about some simple dietary changes? I mean, you know, you touched on fast food and how unhealthy that is, and we see it time and again. I was just reading this morning in our newspaper about the rise of obesity. Over half of the people in the US are overweight. I think it was approaching two-thirds of the people are overweight. Can you comment on that? What are some of the— how does that influence our move toward health?

I'm really glad to be able to respond to this because I think that was one of the things that really compelled me because We know that, I think it's 1 in 4 Americans are, um, have a form of hidden malnutrition. And the numbers are even higher for people who are in retirement villages or on, you know, uh, the elderly living on fixed incomes. Because, um, we think we're full, we fill ourselves with processed foods, and those processed foods fill our belly and make us put on weight. So it's actually possible to be obese and mal— have malnutrition at the same time. And sadly, what happens is that we feel hungry all the time because our bodies are saying we need nutrition. So when you go for a nutrient-dense approach, you know that your body is getting what it needs. This isn't a diet as such, but it is actually based on what you need rather than filling you up to the point that you're having too much, because that too is wasteful. And we've got to keep— we're watching our pennies. So, so I, you know, for example, I use potatoes a lot. In the diets. And I know that some frown on this as being not a food for going on diets. Potatoes make you feel full. They cover a lot of nutrition and they're low cost. I'd sooner you had potatoes than pasta or rice.

Carbohydrates just the same, but a different type of energy from the potatoes. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So, yeah. So basically I'm saying that you should, um, you should think about nutrition first, not about weight loss first. Think about nutrition first. But then when you are doing yourself that favor of giving your body what it actually craves, you should find it easier to lose weight.

Mm-hmm.

Because you're no longer getting, you, you can get emotional, uh, hunger triggers. That's different. Mm-hmm. But those genuine hunger triggers because you are iron deficient, you know, for example, which is very common, then you're, you're addressing any forms of deficiency.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, that's such an important statement about, um, mm-hmm. When we process foods, we can, we can feel full, but we get hungry again because, as you say, we're not providing the proper nourishment. And I know certain, certain processed foods, just the quality and the, the taste of the flavors and the, and the fat content, that creates a craving for us that once we have it, we want to keep having it. So yes, it's only when you give it up that you don't crave it anymore, because once you crave once you have it, you still keep, keep craving it. So that's part of that. I, I think we get satiated, but we don't really get the nutrients that we need from that food. And that's what contributing to the overweight, right? Yeah.

Yes, definitely. It's definitely highly processed foods and a diet rich in simple carbohydrates.

Yeah. Yeah. Whereas the complex carbohydrates are, are healthier, right?

Yeah, that's right.

And interesting, potatoes over pasta.

Yes.

Why is that? What's going on with pasta?

I think so often when I was looking into composition tables, and by the way, I do use pasta in some of the recipes in the book, usually as the midweek option. But by then, I made sure that you've covered your your nutrition requirements. Time and time again, if you have a plant-based option such as potatoes over a grain-based option, the plant-based is usually very good. Oats are good too, but I'll try to stick to one topic at a time at the moment. So potatoes, I really recommend them. I think if you can have buy a bag of potatoes and store them properly, not in the fridge. And yes, you're going to have to peel them because they last longer if they're in their natural form. And there's just so many things you can do with them, but they do cover more nutrition than, than your grain-based. So, and I think human beings were just meant to have a whole lot of tubers and green leaves and you know, fruits and vegetables.

Yeah, okay, that's good. Thank you. So how about chronic illness management? You touched on that. If we're facing chronic conditions, diabetes, high blood pressure, other conditions, what can you speak to any specific benefits of the improved diet toward these conditions?

I, I do think that, um, there's a mental health game going on here as well, and I'd like to address that first because that was my experience, that I felt increasingly powerless, increasingly helpless. And so in managing my diet and finding foods that met all my criteria and that I enjoyed and were tasty. And that can be particularly challenging when you're dealing with taste changes, loss of appetite. So finding ways that works and having some control over that can be really, really helpful. It's a sense of I've got this, I can do this. And also because we know that when you're not getting the right nutrition, that alone, nevertheless, never mind everything else you're dealing with, that alone can impact, uh, your— that can increase your likelihood of depression. It can, it can lead, if you're not getting the nutritional variety that you need. You can have symptoms of being tired, increased fatigue. You're already dealing with this illness, which I liken to carrying a heavy pack up a big hill. You're already dealing with this. Visualize carrying that heavy pack up a steep hill and give yourself the energy and the requirements your body is going to need to deal with it. So that's how I see it. You actually need to be even more careful and know that you can do this and it's something you can control.

Yeah, thanks for bringing that up. I think it's so important that we understand how to change behavior. And you're talking about feeling helpless when we're carrying these conditions or experiencing these conditions. Um, I think the depression that comes in is from maybe this feeling of helplessness and powerlessness. But I, I like to think that the depression lifts when we change our behavior rather than the other way around. I think there's a lot of traditional mental health professionals that say, well, Yeah, so the traditional approach might be, well, let's lift the depression, then we can start making the right choices. I think, as I said, it's the other way around. We start making the right choices, we exert some control, we take some, um, you know, we have some mastery over our world and our environment, and that lifts—

yes.

That lifts the mood, and that lifts the weight that we're carrying around, because that's how we change our behavior, by feeling that success, feeling that sense of reward. I'm doing something different. I'm giving up the processed foods, the highly processed foods, and I'm making some choices. And that's where we can feel lighter. We don't have that burden, because as you say, it's the physical effects of the poor foods. But I mean, that contributes to fatigue and listlessness and maybe some, you know, despondency, but also the psychological effect from that, that same feeling. So it's a double whammy. And I think you're right on target there, Kimberly, because we have to talk about, you know, making these changes first, and that's what lifts the the weight that we're carrying. I don't know if you agree with that or not, but I, I do.

I do. I, if I, you know, I went on crash diets throughout my life and, um, always put the weight back on. And there is beginning to be some, some very recent studies that have come out, cuz as you can imagine, I'm keeping an eye on that space. And they're saying that there may actually be a correlation because you are nutritionally deprived. You're reducing your, your calories. But yeah, and, and for people with chronic illness, this is not the time for you to be going on crash diets. That, that would be unless your doctor— a medically approved diet, you know, in some circumstances. But if you're dealing with chronic illness Give your body the food it deserves. Keep visualizing that you're climbing a steep hill. What would you be feeding yourself? You know, to be the very best nutrition you can. And it just makes you feel better. It makes you feel like you're ready for the fight.

Well, that's good advice. That's good advice. Thank you. So, um, can you give us, um, maybe some practical, affordable meal tips? For those who are, you know, facing some budget concerns, maybe some limited budgetary, um, you know, options.

Okay, I'm going to give you a scenario. I'm going to say that you have found yourself in a situation this week where all the bills came in, and we all know when you're on a limited budget The place they come from is the food budget. That's what happens. So you've only got $10 to spend for the week ahead in groceries, and hopefully you've got a few things in the cupboard. Look at your pulses, your lentils, your kidney beans. Red lentils are really good too, and they don't need pre-soaking. Get yourself a packet or two of, of different varieties of those. Get yourself some milk powder, and then you are just about there. Few herbs and spices, some grains that you find discounted, and then of course some tinned fish. And that's your fallback plan.

Yeah. That's good. That's a good collection of ingredients and elements for the meals. Can you give us a meal or two that you can create from all of this?

Okay. I think I tend to like curries, and I think that we make a mistake of thinking that as people age that they want blander food. And I think that the opposite is true. Sometimes to stimulate our appetite, We've gotta be able to smell the food and, and, and it should have flavor in it. So in my book I've got, uh, recipes around, um, sardines, also liver. I know I'm here, I am pulling another one out. And people who are living, uh, over, you know, 60 years of age, they'd be more familiar with things like liver than my generation were.

Sure.

The liver's brilliant. So anyway, The, the point is, I think that I can give— there's recipes in the book, um, everything from trail mixes, and, you know, for people who don't want to do anything too fancy, they just want to keep it simple, uh, through to lots of stews, casseroles, curries, soups.

Yeah.

And I think that, um, a lot of people understand that those were the Those were the Depression-era foods and the foods that our grandmothers made. And those are the foods we should go back to because they are just so full of nutrition and they're low cost. And the, the, um, a lot of the nutrition in them is easy to absorb because you're mixing things like tomato and capsicum with your proteins, which helps you to absorb the protein.

Sure.

Sure.

You haven't talked about tofu and soy-based products. Healthy or not so healthy?

Soybeans, I would say, I would buy soybeans in the dehydrated packet form. And I would work with those in the way that I work with kidney beans or garbanzo beans. Soybeans are great. And they're particularly good for women over 50 because they, uh, it imitates estrogen. So as your estrogen levels drop, this is a safe way to kind of assist with that. And yet recent studies show they're not going to do the blokes any harm. I kept soy milk and so forth away from my teenage son afraid that I would never be a grandmother. You had too much soy because of the estrogen. But that's not the case. So yeah, look, no, I'm not against these foods, but I do say watch how processed they are. So you note that I've said soybeans are really, really good for you. Soy milk, of all the milk alternatives, is the best. But if you can, and for many of us like myself, I'm lactose intolerant. I'm still going for the lactose-free cow's milk. Cow's milk is the best for human beings.

Yeah. Well, good. Well, what great information you shared. Thank you so much. So, um, we have a minute or two left. What's, what's the main takeaway? What do you hope our audience remembers? From this conversation?

The main takeaway is that food prices are going to continue to rise. It has nothing to do with who is in power at the time. Politicians don't have a lot of say in this, you know, whether it's Australia or America or Canada. We will continue to see price volatility in the coming decade. And I think that compelled me more than anything else to write this book. We all need to start thinking of our Plan B. If you're managing to cover all your nutrition right now, well done you. Yeah, but if many of us probably aren't on any budget, put a layer on top of that where the lot of the fresh foods, meat, milk, and fruit and vegetables are going to become more and more and more expensive. What are you going to do?

Sure.

And that's what I wanted to address with this book.

Yeah. Great. Good job. I've heard that Plan B is usually better than Plan A. Hmm. Yeah.

Yes.

Plan A is great, but Plan B is more practical, the fallback position, and it, it, it works. Yeah. Well, great advice. So, How can people buy your book, Kimberly?

Um, okay, it's, it's How Low Can You Go. The, the version I recommend for American readers is the $50 per person per week. It's actually $30, but I've added a buffer because I've made this a global edition, and I've put additional information at the front of the book on comparing and looking at what's happening around the world. And spoiler alert, they're doing it much tougher in the UK than they are anywhere else.

The—

so yes, it's, it's how low can you go? $50 per person per week. There is a $30 version, you just don't get as much for the same price. The The— it's available on Amazon. You can order it through your bookstore, and you can also find out more information through my website, which is kimberleygillen.com. And Kimberly spelled L-E-Y. Right. You have a hard time finding me otherwise.

Yeah, no, I corrected myself a couple of times on that one. So, okay, Kimberly K-I-M-B-E-R-L-E-Y Gillan, g-i-l-l-a-n.com. And the book is How Low Can You Go? Nutritious Meals for $50 per week. That's the version for the US and $30 per week for those in Australia or other areas.

Yes.

Yeah. Well, that's great. That's great. Kimberly, it looks like we're out of time for today, but Before we wrap up, I just want to remind my listeners to visit my website, livingto100.club, sign up for my email list, and you can download a free copy of my 9 tips to make living longer enjoyable. And if you're affiliated with a senior living setting, be sure to look for my new training manual and activity guide, Better, Longer, and Happier. Kimberly, thanks so much for being a guest on our show. Your website is KimberlyGillan.com. Thank you so much, valuable information.

Thank you. Yeah, thank you. I'm just grateful to be able to share it.

Well, great. Well, you're most welcome, and thanks to all of our listeners for tuning in. Hope to see you next time.