Overcoming Your Addiction to the Status Quo

Welcome to the Living to 100 Club Podcast.

Here's our host, Dr. Joseph Casciani. Welcome to all of our listeners tuning in today. This is Joe Casciani, your host for this program, and this is the podcast from the Living to 100 Club. Thank you for joining us. And for being a member of our community. Here at the club, I've been promoting the notion of living to 100 and doing all we can mentally and physically to live longer and healthier. But I also like to emphasize that living to 100 is a mindset more than anything, a metaphor for pushing ahead. So we can say that living to 100 is a great destination or goal, but if it's not in the cards, we can always stay positive while trying. This is the important part: keeping the mindset that we want to live a positive life regardless of what the circumstances are. Today we're talking about breaking your addiction to the status quo and how to overcome our being so dependent on the status quo just to be perfect. Our guest is Katherine Burmeister. Katherine is a native of Atlanta She's a lawyer, author, speaker, mentor, and coach. Catherine started her own law firm in October of 2018 and focuses exclusively on personal injury by giving a voice to those that have been hurt because of someone else. She wrote her first book, Overcoming Addiction to the Status Quo, in 2020 and began speaking about self-care business, and law the same year. Her passion for helping others is a theme that crosses between her presentations. Katherine has a particular passion for mental health, self-improvement, and emotional intelligence, which she integrates into her legal practice, speaking, writing, and coaching. Katherine, welcome to our program.

Thank you so much for having me.

Great, glad to have you with us. I always like to open by asking our guests to tell us a little bit about what brought you to where you are today. Tell us a little bit about your journey.

So my journey, uh, probably started for our purposes in high school, and the reason I say that is that's when I started identifying my challenges with anxiety and depression, and I wasn't really aware at the time what they were, but over the course of a number of years became more in tune with that. And depression, anxiety has run in my family. So thankfully I had a community around me who understood it and it wasn't stigmatized, thankfully. But as I got older, I really had to learn how to work with that because it's one of those things you can't just will it to go away. We all wish we could, but we can't. And it really influenced me in terms of being reflective. And in tune with who I was and, and where I wanted to be. So from an early point in my life, I found myself being very focused on feelings, myself, feelings of others, and being in tune to that. So I think that ultimately led me on the path of wanting to help other people, um, and also use my experiences to help others as well. So eventually I got on the path of becoming a lawyer. I decided I want to be a lawyer. And decided, okay, where do I start to get there and how do I get there? So I went through a number of steps and started exposing myself to law firms in, in high school for jobs. So it really let me see— all the experiences I had were not always positive because that's life, but it did show me what I wanted and what I didn't want to do after I actually had a license. So I finally got to law school Encountered some adversity in terms of taking the bar exam. I had to take the bar exam 3 times. I missed by 1 point the first time, 2 points the second time, finally passed. But it turns out in that timeframe, I really had to again, check in with myself about the anxiety, um, aspect of my life, because I had been actively working on myself and going to therapy, but turns out you can't fight an exam and yourself at the same time. You're just not going to win that battle. So thankfully I was able to make some changes that helped me get through the exam, but it just reiterated that as I encountered challenges throughout my life, I was going to continue obviously to, to experience those things that came up. So finally I was exposed to personal injury law when I was in my third year of law school. And that really resonated with me in terms of being able to be a voice for the voiceless. It's very much that David and Goliath mentality. With the insurance companies and my clients trying to get compensation for their injuries, even though they've been the fault of an individual. Typically, the insurance companies are the ones that pay out in the cases that I work. So going up against a big corporation that's really only caring about making profits is, uh, is the epitome of a David and Goliath scenario. So that's what resonated with me. But because my clients have gone through so many struggles, uh, physically but emotionally as well, it really allows me to tap into my feelings, um, that I've experienced and bring that to my practice. And then also my new business of being able to help lawyers predominantly figure out where they want to be in life and what makes them happy. I went through a very traumatic situation to have my own practice, and I don't want other people to have to hit that point where they hit what I call my rock bottom to change their perspective on life and what really matters. And if I can help mitigate it or at least, you know, avoid it altogether, great. But just learning how to encounter adversity in a healthy way, I think, is the biggest thing that we don't do as a society, we see it as failing or, you know, just being fill in the blank word, you know, just trying to tear ourselves down, but it's not failing. It's not losing. It's just experiences that you have to encounter. And just the way to learn how to encounter those in a healthy, healthy way is what I try to help other people do.

Sure. Yeah. It's not a smooth road as we know.

Turns out.

Yeah. Yeah. So you've developed a specialty in personal injury as an attorney. And you're also doing support and coaching for other attorneys. Is that what you're saying?

I am. Yes. And it's been really, really fulfilling to, especially since I have gone through all those things. There aren't really many people that are— there's business coaches and then there's, you know, coaches that are personal coaches, but having someone who's actually been through the actual practice or, you know, job that you do, I think is, is really helpful. It gives you a perspective that you wouldn't otherwise have. If that wasn't the case.

Yeah. Yeah. You really can support and, uh, offer insights out of your own personal experience. That's always good.

Absolutely.

So you have a, a practice as an attorney. What types of clients? It's pretty much on personal injury and what type of caseload do you have?

Yeah. So my clients are individuals, like I mentioned before. So they're all individuals that have been hurt because of somebody else. And often it's because of another individual. Sometimes it'll be a company in the sense that if you go into a store and you slip and fall, that's at a store, but usually it's because somebody did something or didn't do something that they were supposed to do. But ultimately I represent individuals and I have cases from dog— people who've been bitten by dogs, um, to people who have been in car wrecks, to people who have gone into their job on a work site and been injured because of somebody else. So I really have a variety of cases. I love that because it keeps things interesting and it really allows me from a business standpoint to keep a rolling set of cases that will settle either maybe sooner versus later.

Hmm. So that includes litigation, I take it?

I have a lot of litigation. I was in fact looking at that today. I was going through my updates for my clients and I have the mass majority of my cases are in litigation right now. So it doesn't mean that they go to trial. What it does mean is that it's just another step in the process of the case. So it moves the the case from just an adjuster with an insurance company to an attorney. And the attorney is going to evaluate the individual more so in terms of how would they present to a jury, are they likable, what factors that the insurance company in and of itself wouldn't focus on so much. But the lawyer knows to look at that because that's what they're looking at for down the road is if we go to trial, how are they going to present to a jury in this jurisdiction? And do we need to basically hedge our bets and try to settle the case before it gets to to that point.

Sure. So in addition to this practice, um, sounds like what's, uh, a full-time practice, you started doing more writing and coaching and public speaking. Is that a trend that you see yourself doing more of in the future, or is this a nice balance where it is now?

I initially thought it was going to be more of a balance, and the further I've gone into the other side of speaking and coaching and writing, I really realized that's where my passion has shifted to. And I think that's one of the biggest things that I've had to be open to, even though I talk about being open to change and encountering, you know, it's not even a challenge, it's just a change in life. Reminding myself that I'm still open to that, and they're not necessarily bad things. They're, even though they're not planned, they can still be good. Um, I never in a million years would have seen myself, one, as a business owner, let alone the owner of two businesses. But I really think this is where my life is taking me. And because of things outside my control, my practice in terms of the insurance companies, the courts, a lot of things that I can't dictate. Uh, from a business standpoint, I'm getting, I'm getting tired of the business aspect, um, for personal injury as a law firm for personal injury strictly. So plus the other side of it is I get to be fulfilled by helping other lawyers go through the process of finding out what really fulfills them. So my goal is by the end of next year to have phased back most of my cases, close them, wrap them up, or refer them out. And maybe do some work on the side, but have the vast majority of my business and my work be with this, this personal brand of speaking and writing and coaching.

Well, we never know what chapters we're going to start, right? What doors opened. Yeah. So you've written your book, Overcoming Addiction to the Status Quo. I took a look at your website and read more about the book and how we can often be our own worst critic. Right. And we're always dependent on the status quo and trying to be perfect. Right. What we always hear about trying to be perfect. So what's the message that you want to impart to your readers? What's the main message?

Yeah, that first of all, status quo is not going to be fulfilling. Second of all, that you cannot live your life beholden to external pressures or internal pressures. Um, that's what I define a status quo as internal, external expectations that we put on ourselves to live our lives a certain way. And there's nothing wrong if you choose that you want to do that, even if it happens to be what everybody else is doing. It's not that you have to go against the grain and everything. It's just making a conscious decision to live the way you want to, as opposed to what other people or you expect yourself to do. So I found that out. By being challenged tremendously. Like I said, when my— when I first ended up having my own practice, the partner I was looking— I was working for, great job, he taught us well, he'd been doing this for 30 years, it was my dream job. There were a couple associates close to my age, and he ended up taking his own life. And the reason was he'd been stealing from clients for 8 years. And to see somebody who had lived his life seemingly the right way, quote unquote, right? I mean, he was successful, he had a firm, he taught us the right way. It's not like he was teaching us how to be bad lawyers. Make a decision that way really stuck with me and showed me that not only was he living up to external expectations of society and money and, you know, what he thought he should be, but also he just wasn't happy. He obviously was not happy with where he was and the decisions he had made. So From that point, I realized I, I wasn't truly happy and I had to come to terms with that. I thought if I checked off all these boxes that I had set up for myself, you know, from the time I decided to want to be a lawyer, I'd be happy. And I got to that point and I wasn't. And after the partner took his life, I tried to continue a law firm with one of the associates for a year, ended up running the practice basically by myself for that year. And it highlighted to me that even though I was young, even though I had not been in, you know, this business that long, I could go and start my own law firm. And I'd proven to myself that I could, right? I finally realized that I was capable of doing this, but I didn't really realize that until I hit my rock bottom. And that was when everything came to a head in terms of what my partner had done, my new partner not being there to support me. And the emotions of not being happy at the end of the day when I thought I would come into a head. And I was having suicidal ideations at that point. And so thankfully I was aware enough to know that I needed to, you know, have my husband come home from work and be with me. But it really just highlighted how, how I wasn't happy and what I had been doing for so long wasn't working. And I think we kid ourselves for a lot, you know, a long part of our life to say, yeah, this is great, this is what I want, or this is working when really it's not. We just are holding on to something so desperately with like white knuckles because we think we have to. And so finally I just let it go. And thankfully hitting my rock bottom led me to the point where I was willing to walk away from the status quo and open my own practice and then be open now to shifting gears and opening another business to help other lawyers. So just being really aware of what makes me happy and challenging those ideas that everybody else seems to hold in terms of what happiness is.

Yeah, so those pressures, as you say, internal and external pressures, they do build up. And for a lot of reasons, they come from our own expectations and demands that we put on ourselves. And you found yourself on that same road, it sounds like, where you were going down, doing the right things, checking off the right boxes, and finding yourself, gee, I'm on, you know, I'm reaching my goals, I'm making all this progress, and then you started to say, well, is the reward really what I thought it was going to be? And then the external circumstances with your partners or your, your, your law practice, I think that's, you know, very important to recognize and to observe and monitor what's going on.

Yeah, it's amazing how so many things can— I'm not a very religious person, I'm much more spiritual, but things happen that nobody could have planned, right? It was very fortuitous that I even got this job. Like, there was literally one meeting that I went to that put me in touch with a woman who put me in touch with this job, and there was already another candidate there. And just how that kind of set itself up to lead me to this point in my life. And I just think it's It's a— I would never wish it on my worst enemy, but I will say I'm happy that it happened because I could have seen myself going on that path of just, you know, grinding away, grinding away for years and years and years and not questioning things and getting to the, you know, retirement age and going, wow, this, this hasn't been great. What do I want to do now? So in a way, it was, it was a good thing that it happened. But that's the biggest message I have for other people is that you don't have to wait until something cataclysmic or catastrophic, whatever word you want to fill in for that, happens before you start changing and making those decisions. You don't have to get to retirement to say, okay, now I can enjoy my life, because honestly, we don't know at the end of the day what time we have. And I think we need to take advantage of what we know we have, which is right now in this moment.

Yeah, yeah. I read an article just this week about, you know, the vacuum— that we don't like to see vacuums and What the author was saying is that whenever there's a space, we want to fill it. We're always kind of pressuring ourselves. It's a gap in time or a gap in a conversation or a gap in our day. We always want to fill it, and that keeps us on this fast pace without stopping long enough to say, okay, I can take a breather here. I can stop and, you know, slow down and, you know, stop and smell the roses. That's trite, but it's really true, right? I mean, we do need to pause and reflect a lot of times without staying on that fast track. And that's what, that's what you experienced. And that's, it sounds like that's the message that you're sharing now today with your clients.

Yeah, it really is. It's, um, like I said, I think my, my brain forced me to stop, even though I was very introspective and aware of my challenges with anxiety and depression. I think I still tried to will myself to a degree through it. I was just operating on adrenaline for a very long time after the suicide. And my brain just finally was like, we're done, we're shutting you down for yourself at this point. Um, and it, it is, it's a, I think it's a defense mechanism in a way. But we, we do work so hard and put so many goals on our, on our plate or checkboxes that we need to check off that we don't take a time as a society. I think Western culture predominantly doesn't take time to, like you said, smell the roses. But it's true, really be reflective about Does this make me happy or am I just doing this because it's expected of me? And the— you're the only one that's going to do it for you. And that's why I keep telling people, you have to make the decision. That's the biggest hurdle is deciding, well, recognizing you're not happy is the biggest hurdle. And then deciding to do something about it is the next one. And it's hard for people, even if it's the worst thing for them to acknowledge that they don't want to be doing it because it is such a drastic change from what they've known for so long.

Do you come across colleagues that are in the same situation that you see so clearly?

I see a lot of people that are very unhappy in the practice of law. I would say the majority of people are unhappy practicing law. Um, whether that's— they thought they were going to go into it for certain reasons and it turns out that wasn't the case, or they just had no idea what they were getting into. They went straight in from undergrad. Didn't have any exposure to the legal field and kept going, and then they're in it. We might as well keep going with it. But there is a very high rate of depression, anxiety, and suicide within the legal field. And it's very sad to me that to our own detriment, we will stay in a situation. That's why I say it's an addiction to the status quo, as my book title, because I'm not using addiction flippantly. People will literally do things to their own detriment to keep up with the status quo. And in my partner's case, he was stealing money to keep up with the status quo, whatever that was for him. We'll keep pushing ourselves to where we're literally physically ill to meet deadlines. And that's very much to our detriment. And instead of shifting how we practice, whether it's client management, case management, whatever the case may be, instead of doing that, we just keep pushing ourselves. And I think that's not limited to the legal field, but that's what I've seen so much in my practice.

Yeah, it sounds like it's as potentially destructive as any other type of addiction— substance abuse, alcoholism, gambling, any other type of addiction. And that's the point in your message, that it can be potentially harmful. And when we don't recognize that addiction and the pressures and the demands that we put on ourselves—

absolutely. And it's, you know, it's never a competition for who has the worst issue or addiction, but I do think there are challenges with the status quo that are not as prevalent in other addictions. For example, it's very much an existential idea of the status quo, and tapping into what exactly that means for everybody is difficult, first of all. Second of all, it's normalized by society, right? I mean, collectively as a society, we've said, okay, drugs are not good, alcoholism is not good, gambling to the point where you're, you know, it's a problem is not good, But the status quo is the status quo for a reason, right? It's because we are validating it as a culture. And it's really hard to walk away from something like that. And then of course there aren't groups, right? We don't have status quo, you know, anonymous group like we do with others because people just haven't identified it as the problem yet.

Yeah. Well, it's safe. It's predictable. It's kind of like our comfort zone. This is what everybody does. And this is how how everybody behaves, and this is what everybody wears. And it's— it is— it's, it's, it's safe, it's comfortable, it's predictable, it's familiar, and it keeps the anxiety down until you stop.

Until a certain point. Yes, I agree with that. I think normalization and, um, like you said, predictability is, is very comfortable. But I would argue that even if you don't make a conscious decision, you're going to get to a certain point in your life where you're forced to acknowledge what's not working, or absolute worst-case scenario is you get to the end of your life and look back and say, wow, I really wish I had lived it, you know, happy and doing what fulfilled me and spending time with the people that I care about, not working more hours. And don't get me wrong, we all have to pay bills. Clearly there are obligations, but we can still do it in a way that is fulfilling, and our other time can be spent doing things that, um, give us life at the end of the day.

Yeah. Well, when you talked about your background a little bit and facing some really difficult events, stressful events, and what I call adverse events, and you've found some ways to overcome that adversity. People I work with and talk to all the time as seniors, older adults, are always looking at some difficult events coming along, whether it's physical or interpersonal. Social, whatever is happening, mental, psychological. So there's always— not always, but most cases there's some really adverse events. What kind of advice, what kind of recommendations can you share for our listeners on how to deal with these adverse events, physical setbacks, whatever, and recommendations?

Yeah, I— for me, and it's because of my background, very analytical. So I really try to be as objective as possible. And for me, that means doing cost-benefit analysis of the situation. If it's a decision that has to be made about where they move to, if they're moving out of their home that they've had for decades and they're downsizing, what does that look like? Where do they go? Something as simple as a T-chart, pros and cons, can really at least do a brain dump, right? Get your thoughts out on paper. And then sometimes you realize it's not as big as you think it might have been. And then sometimes things are bigger than you realized, but at least you're able to quantify it in some way and challenge yourself to recognize what's really bothering you or what's really going to be an issue in the situation. And I find that to be comforting. I also find researching a lot is a, is a big comfort at the end of the day, knowing more, or at least the most I can, about a situation, even if it doesn't give me definitive answers about what's happening with me. If I can research it and understand both sides, I feel like I can make an informed decision. So it's not so much just willy-nilly where, you know, just flying around and don't have any control. You have control. It may not be what you want, but 9 times out of 10, you have the ability to encounter the situation in a way that you choose. And again, it may not be best case scenario, but you can approach it in a healthy way that allows you to encounter it in something that's going to be able to be processed and not just, you know, resisted the entire way.

Yeah, well, I like what you said about being objective and breaking it down. And I think what you're saying in so many words is not letting the emotion interfere or come into play, because it's that emotional reaction that can sometimes color our decision-making, right? And try to leave the emotion out and just look at pros and cons, as you say. Yeah, and don't expect a perfect outcome. I had a guest on a few weeks ago on the podcast, and she was talking about senior moves and downsizing, and she said, look, we always go after Plan A, but Plan A usually doesn't happen. So I have a plan B. And she said, in most cases, plan B is actually better than plan A because it doesn't expect perfection. And, you know, be okay with plan B. And plan B in most, most cases is really the better deal.

I find too, also, especially when it involves other people. So if I'm having to have a tough conversation, or I can imagine, you know, when people are downsizing, getting rid of a lot of their family heirlooms. And I know right now that's a difficult thing because a lot of people my age don't necessarily want all the china, all the, you know, hutches, all the furniture that their parents are maybe wanting to get rid of. It's an emotional thing, right? You have so many memories invested in these objects a lot of times, and having a conversation with the person that you're working with— so if it's a child and you're downsizing, trying to figure out why doesn't my kid want this stuff, this means so much to me— just Talking. Just at the end of the day, talking and explaining why it means something to you. And then also hearing why it maybe doesn't mean as much to the individual. I think a lot of times we avoid convers— well, I know we do. We avoid conversations because they're difficult to have and we don't want to be uncomfortable. But sometimes having those conversations makes things the most comfortable they've ever been. And really tapping into, okay, we may not agree. We may not feel the same way, but I hear what you're saying and can understand where you're coming from. And I think that goes a long way in making an awkward conversation more bearable.

Sometimes it's what goes on in our head too, that doesn't get verbalized, but it still is very powerful. We call it self-talk or that internal dialogue. And sometimes that inner dialogue really holds us back too, because it kind of allows our past to influence what we're doing today rather than trying to be objective. Do you find that that negative self-talk has been a problem in overcoming difficult events?

It has in the past for me. I've become much more practiced identifying it before it becomes an issue or before it starts spiraling for me. But for a long time it did. It dictated what I did and didn't do. And thankfully, my desire to to resist and fight over outweighed that all the time. And that's really why I was able to overcome so many things, but it still doesn't mean it isn't exhausting. Like I said, you know, with the bar exam in particular, I was— had all this negative self-talk and I, but I was still fighting and that's why it was so exhausting. I was fighting myself and what I was doing. So really identifying, coming to terms with why are you talking to yourself in such a negative way, or why are you catastrophizing certain situations that literally haven't even happened? Recognizing what is reality versus what are you perceiving to be reality, because there is a difference. It's not that your feelings are invalid, it's just that they may not be what's actually happening at that particular time because it hasn't happened yet. You're just worried about what could or may happen.

Yeah, someone told me it's like letting the past come, come in as if the past is here right now. Yeah, acting the way we did in the past, or because of our fears or anxieties or whatever happened in the past, it's kind of replaying, duplicating today. So it's that same process. And I, I think, as you say, the, you know, the self-dialogue can be very negative, and it can, you know, influence how we feel about ourselves and, you know, how confident we are and what kind of motivation we have. So we do need to be aware of that negative thinking. I'm curious, tell me about your work with domestic violence victims, Kathryn. And I know you're, you're getting closer to that kind of work and really reaching out to that population. Tell us about that.

So I've worked with Ahimsa House. I was on their board for a good while and they in Georgia, they operate in Georgia specifically, but they're one of the few in the country that do what they do in terms of helping domestic violence survivors leave a situation with their pets. And I think most anybody listening would recognize the relationship between animals and people is extremely strong and has so many benefits. And so they've recognized that as a group and also recognized not only that relationship, but the fact that people will stay in abusive situations if they can't get their animals out in many circumstances. So a lot of shelters, they can only take the humans in, right? They're just not set up to bring in animals. Even small domestic animals like dogs and cats. So if people are not willing to leave a situation, what do we do? Find out why they're not willing to leave. And part of that sometimes is the fact that the animals are going to be left with the abuser, or they've been threatened, you know, used as leverage against the, the victim to try and control them. So getting them out with the animal, getting the animal the care that they need, because very often they are not getting the best care. Not because of the, the victim, but because of the abuser. And getting them cleaned up, you know, in a safe place with a temporary foster, getting the human back up on their feet, and then reuniting them, which is the best thing, right? I mean, we don't want more homeless animals. We want to keep these people with their animals. It's just a matter of they need some time, the humans need time to get their feet underneath them and get to a better place as well. So really being able to provide people comfort And know the comfort of knowing that their animal's safe. And then the comfort of being able to keep their animal too is, is very rewarding and goes a long way in getting people out of situations that they might not otherwise leave. And what's really interesting is too, there's, there's starting to be studies and I've seen in the legal profession, district attorneys, police officers, uh, caseworkers, things like that are really starting to recognize not only that connection, but the connection of people who are abusive towards people are also abusive towards animals. So a lot of times if police officers go into a home and there is abuse or they have an indication there is, the child may not be willing to talk about the abuse happening to them out of fear, but they'll very often be willing to talk about the abuse that's going on towards the animal. And so that is just a way to bridge, bridge that gap. And one, it just emphasizes the importance of those relationships between humans and animals, but also it's getting creative to try to find how we can get people out of bad situations.

Yeah, yeah, the pets of course are very meaningful and provide a lot of support and reassurance to the individual, especially going through that difficult, stressful time. What's the name of the organization that you mentioned?

Ahimsa House, A-H-I-M-S-A, and they have a lot of good resources there too, uh, for other, you know, getting out of the situation. They have crisis hotline as well. So even if you're not in Georgia, Um, just getting access to the tools they have is great.

Okay. I see that we're kind of wrapping up. I always like to ask about a message you'd like our listeners to take away from our conversation. What would you hope they take away from talking today?

I want people to take away the idea that you're never too old to start living a happy life. I've been very fortunate in terms of recognizing where I want that to go early in my life. I'm, just going to be turning 35. I had to remember for a second. I don't know why. Sometimes I hit 30, I just start forgetting. I'm going to be 35 this year. And so I have a lot, hopefully, of time left. And I don't— I work with people that are older in the practice of law, and either they didn't recognize how unhappy they were, they just— it didn't get talked about, you know, a lot of times before the past couple decades about mental health and awareness of self and things like that. I feel like And just realizing that you don't have to stay there. You don't have to stay where you're not happy. It doesn't matter what age you're at. You're never too old to start deciding you want to live a different life. It's just having the courage to do that. And you're absolutely capable of doing that at any age.

So we can change, we can avoid, we can get out of difficult situations at any time. You're working hard, you're doing a lot of good things, you have a full plate, and I hope you keep up the good work. It's, uh, it's refreshing to hear someone, uh, with these kind of insights at your age. I'd say you're relatively young compared to many, many of us, but, uh, certainly not too young to pass along a lot of good useful information to, to everyone. So keep up the good work.

Well, thank you. I appreciate it.

Yeah. Well, we're out of time, uh, Katherine. I, I just want to remind our listeners about a few items before we wrap up. I'm pleased to announce a co-sponsor for our podcast. A Mighty Good Time. Are you looking for ways to stay active and stay engaged? Check out amightygoodtime.com. It's a one-stop shop for events and activities for those 50 and over. It's free to search and it's free to post. amightygoodtime.com. Also be sure to visit our website and see the option to work with Dr. Joe. That's me for one-on-one conversations about managing setbacks. Overcoming a negative outlook, and getting back to feeling engaged and motivated again. Visit the Work with Dr. Joe page on our website and see the options available. You can also pick up a copy of my book on Amazon, Living Longer Is the New Normal. I think that whatever age you're at, inspiration and a positive mindset can be put to good use. That's my message in the book and something, uh, I, I'm sure our guests would agree with today. So be sure to sign up for our email list and announcements and newsletters on our website. Reliable information, resources about moving forward. And while you're there, you can download a free copy of my 9 Tips for Living Longer. It's loaded with practical, useful strategies for successful aging and staying positive. Livingto100.club. Katherine, thanks so much for being a guest on our show today. For those who might want to contact you, How can they do that?

Best place to reach me is my website, Katherine F. Burmeister. I'm sure you'll spell that out because it's a unique spelling. Uh, I can be contacted on social media. There's also a form to reach out to me on there and links to my book on Amazon. If you're interested in that, I love hearing from people and hearing how, how, what I talk about resonates with them. So I'm always happy to get a message.

Great. Great. Katherine F. Burmeister, B-U-R-M-E-I-S-T-E-R.com. And it's a great website. I have to commend you on it. It's got a lot of useful information, easy to navigate. So kudos to you for that. And thanks again for being on our program today.

Of course.

Great. And thanks to all of our listeners for tuning in. Hope to see you next time.

Hi, this is Suzanne Newman, host of the Answers for Elders podcast and radio show. We are the North Star that guides you through the complicated journey of senior care with trusted experts in money, law, living solutions, and more. So join us on this station, your favorite podcast channel, or just go to answersforelders.com. Meet the wayshowers who will help your journey go a lot easier.