Thriving at Every Stage of Life: An Interview with Nancy Cogar

Welcome to the Living to 100 Club Podcast. Here's our host, Dr. Joseph Casciani.

Welcome to the Living to 100 Club Podcast, where we explore the many dimensions of living a longer, healthier, and more fulfilling life. I'm your host, Dr. Joe Casciani, and today we're revisiting an important and often overlooked topic: planning for the later stages of life. Many people know they should plan ahead, yet the conversation gets delayed, avoided, or set aside. But as we'll discuss today, the cost of waiting can be significant for individuals and for families. I'm pleased to welcome back Nancy Kogar, author of the new book Boomer Time Blueprint, recently named number one in elder family law on Amazon. Nancy brings a thoughtful and practical approach to helping people move from awareness to action when it comes to aging, caregiving, and decision-making. In this conversation, we'll explore why planning is often postponed, what gets in the way, and how to take meaningful steps without becoming overwhelmed. First, a little bio. Nancy is an educator and author focused on helping individuals and families navigate the complexities of aging with greater clarity and confidence. Her work emphasizes proactive planning, informed decision-making, and compassionate communication. Her new book, Boomer Time Blueprint, offers a practical guide to preparing for the later stages of life. Nancy, welcome back.

Thanks, Dr. Joe. It's great to be here today. I've been looking forward to this.

Yeah, me too. I look forward to this conversation. You have so many important things to share and educate our listeners about. So Nancy, what inspired you to write the book, the Boomer Time Blueprint?

Yeah, well, I, I wrote the book. Because I just saw so many people that were just so misinformed. And when you, when you don't plan and plan for yourself, you're setting yourself up for all kinds of exposure. And you know, when we age, there are an assortment of very complex issues that can come up. So, and I don't want that for my clients and for, for others out there, because we have more and more people aging and they just do not have things in place when it comes to estate planning. And as you mentioned, you know, end of life and long-term care— there's so many things they can do creatively as well. I think they get stuck in the stereotypes, and, um, you know, that's enough to make them not want to think about it and push it to another day. But there's so much more there. And I, I share— I share a lot about my own life, my own dysfunctional family, and my own experience with, with caregiving, it's so much better if you take it on and you know what to ask and you know what to do and who can do what. So that's really what I've tried to do.

Sure. So that's a big driver of writing the book, to help people learn that it's not so bad to take these challenges on, to start wrestling with them, because as you say, and we both know, it's easy to avoid these unpleasant topics. And many reasons, of course, dealing with their own dealing with tough decisions and maybe things they don't want to face and decisions they have to make about possible moves or downsizing or placement or wills and trusts and all of that. So what do you see in your, in your clients that— are there some themes that explain why people typically resist this?

I think, and I would love your thoughts on this, but I think a lot of it has to do with fear of the unknown. And not wanting to move beyond that. It feels uncomfortable, it feels unknown, and right now is safe, right? You're in your status quo and you just choose to think about it another day. But I think we've gotten to a point where aging and the kind of what we've seen as the defaults of not planning, Really, you don't want to be headed on that track because it's just not sustainable, and it— there are better ways to go about it.

Sure. Are there some— can you give us a case, maybe a simple synopsis of some family or an individual who avoided this and then faced heavy consequences for not taking action?

Well, yeah. I've got a lot of those and there are a lot in the book too. And I use these because I think we can learn from each other's stories. Stories are tough, but if we can take something and move on and you, you remember stories, right? So this particular instance I'm thinking of, it was a second marriage, which happens all the time now, right? So there were two boy teenagers. Well, not, they weren't teenagers. They were early 20s, I think, that were born from a different marriage, and this father married a woman, a new woman, and moved in, and the boys were not crazy about that. Surprise. You know, they were in love and didn't want to rock the boat too much because it was a sensitive issue. You didn't want to create a conflict. So they didn't do anything together to plan for what happens moving forward. And he died unexpectedly and without a will, without any direction as far as what property went where. Everything was in his name alone, including the house. And so the wife was faced with really limited rights in that it was a fallback on Tennessee law. So if there's no will, the state law will control who gets what. And the marital home ended up being sold. All the furnishings inside the house, the kids came in and took what they said was theirs and were really not kind about it. Um, you know, it's just this whole world that this woman had fell apart, you know, that— so that's an example of something you don't know, the unintended consequences of things.

Sure.

You know, it's just unfortunate.

Yeah, yeah, of course. And that's one example out of probably dozens or even hundreds. And without those pieces in place, we can resort to just the impulsive, quick, hasty decision-making, and people get hurt. And emotionally, personally, financially, they, they get hurt. So I know your book, your book highlights a lot of steps that people can take and to begin to shift from avoiding these issues to becoming more engaged? I'm sure there's a lot of information in here about helping the families start to face some of these smaller decisions maybe first. Can you give some, some tips on what to start with?

I've included some real kind of worksheet-type documents that are accessible on my website, which corresponds with this. I'm working on a workbook to come out that can, you know, go along with this, but those are available. They're just on my website at the woman. But things like scripts, conversation starters— how do you start talking to mom and dad about, you know, you've seen a decline, you're worried, you want to know if they have anything in place, you want to know, you see them moving around the house in more difficulty with that, you want to bring some of those things up. There are inventories in terms of who are their doctors. Simple as this: who are their doctors? What kind of medications are they on? What are the phone numbers? A lot of people don't even have information. What pharmacy do they go to? What's their Medicare number? Do they have long-term care? What do they want, right? If they— I think 95% of people say, "I want to stay at home." And that's understandable, but in order to do that, which is possible at least for a time period, but you have to do some things in order to make that work. So, I've got other things on there. Including a safety assessment, an inventory, you know, what's in each room that may pose a hazard that we're just not aware enough to look for. What can we do to bring more support in the house? Is there an old stove that has a gas pilot light? If that gets left on, you know, somebody could get burned or worse. Those, those types of things. And I, I think that helps in number one, bringing the subject up, right, and making it more aware for the entire family. And then number two, it requires, um, them to work together, you know. So, so you have some team building there, which, which helps when you get into the more difficult questions. And I go through that as well, but it's more of a phase, you know, figuring out what does your life look like What, what is included in your life? Who is a part of your life?

Sure.

How are you related to these people? Just things like that that we don't think about that have a legal impact.

Yeah, that's interesting. Um, I don't know if I mentioned to you, but I have my own publication called My Conversation Starter Workbook, and it's just the last section touches on these areas that you're referring to, the earlier sections on more about school and work life and values and experiences. So, um, I think we're approaching this probably from a similar perspective, that let's start small. Let's start with some of these questions that are not so difficult, not so, um, I wouldn't say fearful, but objectionable or triggering unpleasant thoughts. Where should a family start? What's an area that you think they can begin with? Maybe adult children 2 adult children worried about one of their parents. Where do you think they— what kind of questions would you ask them, the adult children?

Well, I would want to make sure those 2 children were on the same page. There's some conversations that need to happen between the 2 of them, and if they have disagreements, then those should be worked out before they— the emphasis should be mom and dad.

Okay.

So if they've got that, that unified objective, then I think some of those scripts and those worksheets can really help. Um, you know, it's just, it's not an easy thing to bring up. And I wouldn't start with something being wrong. I'd be, you know, maybe you go and have lunch at a place where, where they go look at some things, and that breaks stereotypes as far as assisted living and independent living. It's not Some of the places are really beautiful and they have chefs and community activities and they make your bed for you. And I, I think I'd like to move in there.

I know I got my name on some lists myself.

Um, yeah, no, but you know, that, that's what I mean. It really needs to start— the parents have to be involved too. I think if you can do that, nobody wants somebody else to plant— be planning for their own future. It feels more like planning for your own demise, right?

Sure.

Yeah, not being involved in that.

Yeah.

Yeah. So I think those kinds of things, and you and I are very like-minded in this, I think, that you don't know what you don't know until you find out. And there are other options. And, you know, when I start to get to know people, and what I talk about in the book is I want to know them because what works for their neighbor may not work for them.

Of course.

So it's— I would not respond with, let's get something done, print something off the internet and sign it away. First of all, that might not be enforceable. Most certainly it won't apply to your circumstances. And that really is the undercurrent here is we don't know exactly what the future holds for you, but we need to have some things in place given privacy laws, given all the fraud that's out there, the requirements the banking industry now has. It's just, yeah, you can't do it without having these things in place.

Yeah, yeah. So what you're saying is you really cannot apply the same blueprint to every family. There are differences, of course, and values and principles and approaches and means. They differ from one to another. What I heard you say is one of the starting points is where the adult children need to be on the same channel, same page. So their approach, their desire to engage the older adult or the older parents is not going to be mixed messages coming from one.

The last thing they need is a fight from the sibling. And, and sometimes it doesn't happen. Sometimes they're just one, one child that assumes the role without any conversation. Yeah. How did I get there? Um, yeah. So if that's you, there are other things you can do. You can meet with someone like me and we can talk through the options that are available for you as a caregiver, and that you can, you can create boundaries. You can, you know, it's, it's not an indentured servitude thing where you don't have the ability to give any kind of input. It should be an agreement that allows both to preserve some boundaries here and independence.

Yeah, I know that comes up often when the adult children think they know better than mom or dad. And unless dementia comes into the picture or some confusion or impaired judgment, the adult parent really has the final say on these. They can listen to the their children's tips or recommendations or requests. But the adult children can't really be making their choices. I think that creates a lot of friction too, as I'm sure you've seen, especially if maybe the adult children live in different parts of the country and they're not as close to maybe the primary caregiver.

Sure. And they want to, they want to go, you know, bring mom and dad back to Washington State from Tennessee or something. That's a big change.

Sure.

And they, at 80, they're leaving everybody they know, and that's a disruption from community. Um, you know, the other issue is isolation, which makes me think of that, because the failure to communicate leads to isolation, either a feeling of no one's listening to me and I'm isolated, or just isolation because you're the only one that's involved in the process. And that's not, that's not a good place to be. That the planning would help to avoid some of that.

Sure. So in the cases that you've been involved with, are both parents typically still together, or is one— are they solo agers, um, leaving just one, one of the couple left, or Well, it, it's interesting as I, I see really a mixed bag.

It's not what people would typically think. I do have some older couples that come in, um, you know, that typically they'll have wills that they did when their kids were little, um, and they haven't done anything in 35 years. So they're, they're admitting they need to update some things. And so that's one set. And then we've got The other set that just have never done anything, and they hear from somebody, a friend or a colleague, about something that's happened, and it scares them. And so, they want to come and find out if it's true. It doesn't apply to them, and what can they do about it? And then, then there is, uh, you mentioned the solar solo ager. I do see, um, a lot of solo agers, uh, either widows or widowers or people that have small business and have just typically, you know, been on their own. And that is really important for planning for them because they don't have any kind of natural legal individuals around them to make decisions and take care of things for them. And then the other biggest group really are the caregivers, family members, older Older adult children that come in and they're just worried and want to try to get something done.

Sure. So a whole mixed bag of different—

Yeah, that meets a lot of different scenarios and people.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And again, no single, right?

No, but that's what everybody thinks. Get out my cookie maker and make some wills and make some powers of attorney today. Put some sprinkles on them and now they're done.

Sure. So, um, if People are listening, and you wanted to give them a couple of things to start with today or this week. And where do you think they should start? What's, uh, one or two top-of-mind things to start with?

Well, I do have, uh, some worksheets that talk about that on my website, which is nancykogar.com, and there's a library there, but you can search by topic.

Um, okay.

And I would say look there. Otherwise, I would say really start thinking about these big picture items.

Mm-hmm.

If something was to happen to me tomorrow, what would I do? You know, what would I want to do? Am I able to do that? What do I need to do to make that happen? Who do I want making decisions for me? Who do I not want making decisions for me?

Yeah.

You know, does someone know if I fall? Do they know I'm on the ground in my house? How do I call for help? You know, things like that. Just, I think just those simple questions will start to flesh out some of the other things, including who can you rely on? Do you need to make a better pick? Who's an alternate? And your property that you've worked to accumulate all these years, you spend all this time working on it. You need to protect those things. You need to be intentional about making sure that where you think they're going to go is where they're going to go and planning for that. Um, nothing worse than seeing someone who did not do any planning and they've got a lot of money and it ends up going not where they expected. I had, you know, where Tennessee is close to where Alabama is, and I, I've had a client who passed away and she had a will that provided a distribution to someone that was already dead. So there was nobody there to receive the inheritance, but she didn't have any alternate alternatives in there.

Okay, no Plan B.

Yeah, so Plan B then was to rely back on state law, which is not necessarily the first choice. And I was looking for really remote relatives in Alabama where her family had come from. I don't think she ever met any of these people. So, you know, yeah, it's— you can't do anything once you're there. But you know, it's, it's better to have something in place.

So a workbook worksheet is a good place to start on your website, nancycoker.com. People can look at that and see what they want to tackle first. Not that they have to tackle everything, but here's, here's a list of things that you need to start working on.

And, and it's a process.

Sure.

Like you, Dr. C, I've I've got a podcast where I'm also Boomer Time, so it's similar to the book. Shameless plug there. And it's on YouTube. It's also available on my website, which is that my name, NancyKogar.com. And I've really made an intentional effort— it's free, complimentary. So I have made an intentional effort to try to break down a lot of these scary issues in a way that makes sense. So if you can't even get to the, the part where you're putting pen to paper, that is a great place.

I see. Sure.

Yeah, sure.

Yeah. So you, you mentioned there are things that people— there's maybe some myths or some scary things that are just not true. Uh, what comes to mind? What are, what are some of the myths about this process or starting to work on all these changes, what are some of the biggest fears that people have?

I think that those end-of-life directives are scary for obvious reasons, right? Sure. But they are so very important because the alternative is if you don't articulate what you want at the end of your life, then of course the, the medical team is going to be obligated to try to keep you alive by whatever means necessary.

Mm-hmm. Sure.

And you may, you may not want that at that point in your life. I don't think people realize that you need to have an enforceable document that says what you want during those times. Another thing I see often is someone will say, well, I told my son what to do and I put him on my bank account, so that's good enough. No, what you did was you made him a joint owner on that asset, and when you die, it will become his. And then he has no obligation to give away his own property as an inheritance. It's not an inheritance, it's his property. I'll think, you know, and states vary as far as vesting of joint interest, but, you know, titling is so very important. You really need to look at that because if you're in a community property state, there's some implications that can happen that you really just don't have any control over. Another example would be people in trying to— they'll come to me after the fact sometimes, and they're, they're wanting to get on Medicaid potentially. You need to make a really realistic review of whether it's likely for you to get Medicaid, qualify. Yeah, because It's meant for the people that have next to nothing. Um, sure, that's what it's there for. And it's becoming harder to get that, and fewer hospitals, as I'm sure you know, are having Medicaid beds available because they're trying to make ends meet. So it's not a good option. But sometimes what people will do is they'll quitclaim away their biggest asset, which is their house to their kids or somebody, and that is essentially giving away your biggest asset to somebody, whoever that is, for nothing. And you are ruining it as being a potential inheritance because it's not. You lose your— the equity and what you've built in the house over time because, you know, they should take it at your date of death value, but you've just giving it away. And those types of things can lead to legal battles too. The state, I know here in Tennessee, can come in and set those kind of transfers aside within a certain time period because they do regard it as something. You say your house was worth $500,000, you just gave away $500,000. You know, they don't realize that sometimes until after the fact. And there are things you can do to cure it. Um, which I recommend, but that's the kind of stuff if you don't, if you don't really know, uh, you could create some real problems for yourself and for your family.

Sure. So the, the titles that these properties are, are left in, or just putting somebody on your bank account, that has ripple effects, and that's not the answer, right?

No.

So, um, just putting these as properties to be passed on. It has to be done legally so it goes in the direction we want it to, right? Mhm.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. Well, so let's talk about your book. I, I think it's a great book. I just got it and I haven't read it yet, but covers a lot of information. What do you think are some of the things that the book covers that, uh, other books don't? What's, uh—

well, yeah, it's not a technical book, it's not a legal book, it's really not a book for for lawyers. Maybe it is. I don't know if they want a more simplified approach to it. But it is, I think, for— I really think every family member could take this and say, I really, I know this is an issue, but I really, I don't know where to start. I don't know what to do. I don't know if I need a complicated estate. I don't even know if I need an estate. How am I going to protect Mom and Dad, or me if it's you, moving forward? And I think this is something that I've really tried to make that intentional in terms of if you're in that place, let's start with the mindset you need. Let's start with knowing what you're approaching. Let's start with special needs, you know, things you may not be aware of. Let's start with dynamics of families. That's— everybody's got a problem with problem child. So it's just a lot of that, and I've got some action steps in here for people. Of course, you know, I'm here in Tennessee, but I meant this to be more of a general resource. So that way, I've got questions in here too. So say someone in California is watching this, they don't know who they should hire. Yeah, I've got questions in here, but here's what you ask an estate planning attorney. Are you comfortable with them. Things that they need to think about. It's just not assuming somebody is going to help you do what's really very important. And then I also have some life stories in here as a caregiver for my father, who's since deceased, and now my mother. I'm walking that road too, and I think it's important. It puts some context on it. I don't have all the answers. But, but I know how to eliminate a lot of them and create less problems for you in the future.

Yeah. Um, you know, and to give questions to ask, the readers can now be more informed about what should I cover when I talk to estate planning attorney, or do I qualify for Medicaid, or all of these questions. So really, the book goes beyond the traditional Planning Guide, step by step, here's what you need to do, because it does go into some of these areas in more detail and in a more practical way, so to speak. Yeah. Yeah.

You mentioned solo agers. I talk about that a lot. I talk about small business owners, boomers, baby boomers, which is the reason this got its name. Uh, hey, sure. They have created immense wealth in our country. Yes. And many of them have small businesses. I think that the SBA, the Small Business Administration, reports that the majority are boomer-owned businesses. Most of them don't have any kind of succession plan or what happens after. It's kind of the same. Your business can be your livelihood and can be your life. What happens What's going to happen, right? I think these questions beg attention.

Yeah.

You know, yeah.

Well, it's a great book. It's a great book. And I, I think it should be the number one read on elder law on Amazon. And, you know, if we have some listeners who are kind of maybe rethinking, they don't want to put this off any longer. What would you recommend? Where should they start? We'll say buy Nancy's book, but where should they start?

I think if they did buy the book, I think it would be helpful for them because it is an organized guidebook, compass, if you will, for the process itself. I would say, and I mentioned this again, maybe watch some of my podcasts. I've got a wide range of issues there, everything that we've talked about today. And maybe just, I mean, if you're able to do some research on your own, do some research on your own. Certainly don't create a will on ChatGPT or anything like that. But you know, there's a lot of information out there. And I think in your organization too, you've got some wonderful resources for people. And I think local community groups like the Alzheimer's Association and there's caregiver support groups and so forth. I think you can get word of mouth, find out a lot of things about who's good, who's not good, you know, all that.

Sure.

So I think it just takes effort.

Yeah. No, that's good. There is a lot of information out there. I mean, AARP, National Council on Aging, there are a number of really good organizations with a lot of very useful, valuable resources. So looking into the future, what gives you optimism about people can look at aging differently?

Well, I am kind of an optimist.

So good. Me too.

You know, so I see all the opportunities there are for boomers have so much intelligence and wealth of knowledge. And I see all these youngins coming up and, and I think they need some guidance. And, uh, and, and I think that if the two of them got together in some way, that they could really benefit each other. And that would lead to a fulfilling experience, I think, from both. But becoming more community-minded in the way that your, your neighborhood is situated, or way a retirement facility is situated. I think they started building some on college campuses.

Yes, they have.

Try to encourage that. I think that's wonderful. I think being creative is, is really what's needed to have some different options other than sitting in your house by yourself in front of your television watching Andy Griffith. I love Andy Griffith. No offense to him, but there's more to life than Andy Griffith, I think.

Yeah, yeah, that's good. I think you're right. The whole notion of intergenerational connections and boomers working with younger adults and sharing their knowledge with each other. You know, and I think the other point too, as you touched on, this is something that we have to do. We have to take the initiative, right? Nobody's going to come knocking on our door and say, hey, here, I'm going to help you plan your future. I mean, Amazon's not going to make a delivery and say, here's your kit to you know, take care of all your finances. So it is, it is that we have to take, we have to get out and take that initiative. We have to learn. But the, the great thing is that there is so much information out there, a book like yours and other information. It's all over. So let's take that initiative and let's start making some of those informed decisions. I think that's what you're talking about, right?

And, you know, I started off by talking about stories, and I think you start talking to people and you just incredible journeys had along, along their lives. And that human connection, I think, can be so powerful if we just slow down enough to, to do that.

Yeah. And to not be afraid of it, right?

Yeah. Well, yeah, there's a lot of that these days, but I think there's some safe places you can, you can start with, and enough organizations nearby that you can figure out what's practical and not. The fraud issue and everything else is horrible. Um, you know, and that leads, I think, from loneliness too, but they're using the phones, using the internet, and using all of that to try to just target older adults. And yeah, yeah, that's, that's the last thing that I would want.

Well, you're right to be optimistic though about our generation. Boomers, we're bright, we're talented, we're educated, and we have a lot of spending power. Our age group, our generation. So yeah, there's a lot of upside. There's a lot. And I love talking about the upsides of aging. Me too. We talk a lot about what we lose. Let's talk about what we gain. That's what I say.

Exactly. And everybody likes to have a purpose, right? So of course, what's your purpose?

Yeah. What can you do right now? Well, Nancy, thanks again for joining us and for sharing your insights from Boomer Time Blueprint.

Pleasure.

It's been a thoughtful and practical conversation. I think this will resonate with many of our listeners. And if you've been putting off conversations or decisions about planning for the future, perhaps this is a good time to take that first small step. To learn more about Nancy's work and her book, Boomer Time Blueprint, her website, NancyKogar.com, will have a lot of information. And as always, you can find more of our conversations for aging well at my website, livingto100.club. If you found this episode helpful, I invite you to share it with a friend or family member, especially someone who may benefit from these important conversations. Until next time, remember, aging well isn't about avoiding challenges. It's about staying engaged with them. Thank you very much, Nancy.

Oh, my pleasure. I appreciate you very much, Dr. Joe.

You're welcome, and thanks to all of our listeners for tuning in. Hope to see you next time.