Understanding Hormone Replacement Therapy with Greg Brannon

Welcome to the Living to 100 Club Podcast.

Well, hello to everyone joining us today on our podcast. You're listening to one of our Successful Aging episodes this month on the Living to 100 Club program, and I'm your host, Joseph Casciani. Each week, our conversations educate and inspire, helping you get the best out of all the years we're given, regardless of what obstacles come our way. You can learn more about our club on our website, Be sure to take a look at my new training and activities manual, Better, Longer, and Happier: A Guide to Aging with Purpose and Positivity. This is a series of 12 modules in a card deck format developed for activities directors at senior living communities, really to learn more about psychologically healthy aging. Module 1 is now on sale, so visit my website. Livingtoanother.club/blh. Now, on today's— onto today's program. Our podcast today introduces our audience to hormone replacement therapy and the use of all-natural hormones that ease the degenerative side effects of aging. Our guest is Dr. Gregg Brannan. He's the founder and medical director of Optipal Bio, a company specializing in bioidentical hormone replacement therapy, also referred to as BHRT. We learn how BHRT is different from the usual therapy with synthetic hormone replacement since it uses hormones that are identical to hormones made by the body. Our guest explains how BHRT combats fatigue, osteoporosis, and headaches, as well as the toxins that we're exposed to in our everyday environment. How is this treatment applied and how frequently is it needed? And most importantly, why is it so effective in the face of reduced rates of testosterone and estrogen in contemporary society? First, a little background on Dr. Brennan. As an OB-GYN for more than 25 years, Dr. Gregg Brannan is an expert in the hormonal changes that occur throughout one's lifetime. Dr. Brannan graduated from the University of Southern California in 1982. He went on to graduate from the University of Health and Science Chicago Medical School in 1988 and completed his residency in OB-GYN at the University of Southern California Women's Hospital in 1992. He served as a clinical assistant professor at the University of North Carolina School of Medicine, and he's been in private practice in the Raleigh-Durham area since 1993. His medical practice, Optimal Bio, now has 7 locations across the Southeast. Dr. Brannon lives in North Carolina with his wife Jody, where they've raised 7 children. Dr. Brennan, welcome to our program today.

Thank you very much. And we have an 8th office open in Austin, Texas next week.

Oh wow, congratulations, number 8.

Thank you, thank you so much, Joe. I appreciate it.

That's terrific. Yeah, well, I always like to open by asking our guests to tell us some of the highlights of what brought you to where you are today. You've been through a lot of medical practice and certainly a lot of background and academic work, so are the highlights that brought you to where you are today?

Yeah, I was always a, a believer and lover of questioning things. I love the Socratic method, a method of education. I like always asking questions, why? And I enjoyed, um, well, looking at the OB was so exciting. I love watching that little baby's heartbeat at, you know, 6, 8 weeks. I love the thrill of the actual delivery. And I love watching women from teenagers their 90s, this whole beautiful spectrum of life.

Yeah.

And during that process, I started looking at aging as a disease and not as a, you know, I'm not saying chronologically aging is beautiful. I think aging is fantastic. It's the biological aging at a much faster rate is my issue. So I went back into the root cause. So a few years ago, I went and got board certified in functional medicine. I got a couple of fellowships in that to learn more about nutrition, integration of that. Hormone therapy, have always been, been OB to understand hormones. But I was trying to understand the difference between bioidentical structure and synthetic structure. I was always taught to, uh, hormone replacement's the same either way, but it really matters on the three-dimensional structure of the molecule. So I'm trying to put back the human hormone, the hormone our body makes at physiological optimal levels. Joe, the big thing I use, I got a new book coming out, Restore, comes out next month, is like we would never say it's okay to lose insulin as we age. We would never say it's okay to lose cortisol as we age, but it's okay to lose testosterone, the most abundant hormone in the human body. I disagree. We're losing it at a much faster rate because in our body, estrogen comes from testosterone. Estrogen is what feedbacks loop to, to, to use the production of testosterone. And last 50 years, we've been getting fake— we've been bombarded in the environment with these xeno or fake estrogens. That's what's speeding up the process of rapid hormone loss and therefore, i.e., aging processes, osteoporosis, dementia, sarcopenia, things like that.

Mm-hmm. So, um, these are hormones that naturally drop as we age, testosterone, estrogen.

Well, the answer is, this is interesting. Let's do a man first.

Yeah.

A man could be able to reproduce his whole life. So in a man's body, a hormone called FSH in the brain makes sperm. LH in the brain makes testosterone that converts to estradiol and dihydrotestosterone. One of their function is to mature sperm. The other function is go to every single cell in our human body needs testosterone to work. It's basically gasoline for every cell. So every cell's receptor for testosterone. And then every cell has a, has a certain amount of aromatase to convert to estrogen. So what is an optimal level of testosterone? When you and I were younger, I'm 63. When we, when we were younger, our grandparents, when they were kids, 18 to say 30, an average man's level is between 800 and 1,400. Today, most labs call a man around 200 to 900.

Wow.

Now a woman is interesting. A woman has a fertile range. There's no doubt about that because of ovulation. But even when, even when they're not ovulating, they still have— listen, this is interesting— women have 50 times more testosterone than they do estrogen. Now, women is unique. At menopause, it all turns off. So they go from a hormone state to no hormone state. That's the osteoporosis. That's the increased dementia, the sarcopenia, the, the, the private parts changing down there. So the question is, can we keep our hormones at a youthful age? Will our cells age slower? And the answer is yes. The pellets have been used since 1935. This is not new data.

Wow. So this is different from earlier generations. I mean, that's a big drop when you talk about the average going from 1,000 to 500 or 600.

Yeah. In the men, it's been since 1970. Sperm and testosterone are parallel. In 1970, men have been losing sperm and testosterone roughly 1% per year. Now in 2002, it's actually doubled to roughly 2% per year. So that's why you see normal sperm count dying, going down. You see, uh, basically because testosterone matures it. So now besides sperm decreasing, the other things that testosterone does, i.e., testosterone helps decrease prostate cancer— it's the estrogen molecule does that— it helps decrease osteoporosis, dementia, Again, it's just very hard to say, but every single cell in the human body needs testosterone. And therefore, what's an optimal range? I'm trying to get back to a pre— I call it the pre-plastic era, the pre-phallic era, because that's what's tricking our body to age faster. So I'm trying to get the numbers prior to the, the atrazine, the pesticides, the plastics that are actually starting in the womb. They're actually making men, boys and girls, start at a lower value. As the gonads are being formed in the womb, they have a lower starting point than you and I did. Dr. Travis did a paper, looked at the last 5 decades showing these, this trend going down. The, the, the studies in men and women, in women have not been that new. 2005 was the first major paper showing decrease in testosterone in women.

Wow. Wow. So like you say, they're the gas for the cells in our body, these, these hormones, and they obviously help the body stay at optimum functioning. And when the hormone drops, let me see what testosterone does.

Yeah, the actual molecules that cause the atherosclerosis, these molecules that actually cause, they call VCAMs and VEGFs, actually cause, they say the inflammation is starting. Testosterone inhibits that. There's a thing called cytokines. There's good cytokines and bad cytokines. What I mean by bad Even the bad ones are good for short time. A short acute phase is life-saving. Acute cytokines over a long term are actually detrimental. But there's one called interleukin-6, interleukin-1. Those cause inflammation. Interleukin-10 decreases inflammation. Well, testosterone increases number 10, inhibits 1 and 6. It's basically an anti-inflammatory state. It's the most strongest anti-inflammatory our body makes. Even more anti-inflammatory and cortisol.

Wow. Wow.

Because the aging, I believe aging process, atherosclerosis, osteoporosis, dementia, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, these are all at the, at the root cause are inflammatory diseases.

So I know when you and I spoke, we talked about a lot of the myths or a lot of the kind of stereotypes that are maintained about aging and well, certain decline is to be expected with advancing age and lower energy and decreased libido and loss of muscle mass. I mean, what you're saying is that those are myths and that's not necessarily has to happen.

100%. If the muscle has a young, if every cell has a youthful biochemistry, it's gonna treat it as a youthful, as a youthful cell. The aging process, you can actually look at mitochondria. Women. There's some great pictures show them at different ages. You can actually see as the age that a non-scientist can see the mitochondria looks different in a 20-year-old than an 80-year-old. Okay, so, and then you put the 80-year-old on hormones, you can actually see the mitochondria get—

ate—

get—

get—

look like the young one. There's, there's MRIs of, of menopausal women on hormones and not on hormones. You can see a more convoluted brain, more blood flow to the brain. It's just, it makes more brain formation, more of his vasodilation, causing more blood flow to the brain. It's just, again, is, is you want hormones of a 90-year-old or hormones of an 18-year-old? That's all this comes down to. Again, if we were talking insulin, we would never say it's okay to have low insulin as you age. That's called the disease, it's called diabetes. You would never say that. But the most abundant hormone in the human body, we say, okay, women, live half your life without it, And men live half of your life with, live half, most of your life with 50% of your grandparents. That makes no sense to me. It's not optimized.

Expected. Why do you think that is? Why was that okay to have these reduced functioning levels when it's not necessary?

Well, I think what happens is a doctor mistakenly will look at a lab, they'll have a range of testosterone. If they draw it in a man, the range will say 264 to 916. That's what LabCorp uses today., and the doctor look at it and go mistakenly, oh, you're healthy, you're within the range. But what if that's a sick population? Because 7 years ago, the range was 348 to 1197. On June 30th, 2017, it was the 348 to 1197. On July 1st, they changed it. So the question you ask, why'd they change it? Well, I know why. They did a different study. People are more obese in it, more exposed to the plasticizers, more exposed to atrazine. So they're looking at a snapshot of today's population. So if the outside agency is what's causing this to go down, let's go back as far as we can and see the labs they were back then, back then, that were not as tainted by the outside environment. And that's what I use. I use the labs from the 1940s. That's the data I'm using.

So what, what we call within normal limits has been pretty, that's a wide range to begin with. And then it keeps, keeps changing too.

Shifting left. Yes, Joe. It's like, it's like, again, and I know it sounds redundant, but say we're, we're looking for a blood sugar. What's a healthy blood sugar? 'Cause you know, high blood sugar, Alzheimer's is type 3 diabetes. We know dementia is blood sugar, visceral fats, blood sugar. We know all this, the food pyramid is what killed us. We were raised in that pyramid that's destroyed us, right? But the bottom line is, You're looking, what is a healthy blood sugar? Because you know all the sequelae of high, of high sugar. And you have a million people in the study, give you this great number, but they're all diabetic. The results are irrelevant because they're all diabetic. Give me a placebo group that's not diabetic. That's what I want to look at. UNC Chapel Hill did a study a few years ago, and they say only 12% of Americans are metabolically healthy. Well, that's because we left eating red meat. We left eating protein. We left eating fat. We had this whole low-fat, high-carb diet. We've raised it. You can look in mid-'70s on, look at dementia, PCOS, metabolic syndrome. It's all because of the sugar. Sugar is the impetus for inflammation. That's the issue. Let's go back how we ate 100 years ago. You know, grow things organically, grass-fed beef, wild-caught fish. Those are the things we need to have. Non-pasteurized milk, I believe that's a big benefit. But if the environment and, and filtered water, the problem is these waters are just so tainted. Fluoride, chlorine, these halogens, bromine are not healthy for us. Iodine is. So it's multiple factors and the body's so amazingly made that it could survive almost anywhere. But the goal is not to survive, the goal is to thrive.

Sure.

So I want the optimal blood sugar, the optimal sleep, the optimal exercise. You know, I've been following you, I've been since met you, I've been following your, what your, your ideas in your, on your website. These are things to age gracefully. I don't wanna not age. Let's age gracefully.

Mm-hmm.

Keep that brain going. Keep that body going. That's what I want to have that done here. We see, we see significant difference. We know a man who has low T who gets treated with, with, with therapy decreases overall mortality by twofold. Overall mortality, prostate cancer, diabetes decreased by 200%. These are, these are amazing numbers. There's a great book called, uh, um, called Nobody Wants You Healthy by Mark Richards. Go through a lot of his data. My book, I have two books out, one called Home One Handbook, has all his data. But my new book comes out, Marshall called Restore. It's 85,000 words, 500 references, just data upon data to show what a youthful chemistry— because there's, there's 30,000 articles on this. This is not new. The problem is, is that since it's not mainstream per se, people understand it. And that's the issue. And the issue is bioidentical replacement therapy. We do it for diabetes. We do it for other things. Why not do— we do it for acid reflux, for cortisol. I just want to put it in the same category. Let's attack aging as a disease, sir. We do that, Joe, we're gonna age. We'll have the same diseases. Let's pass away at 95 or 100, right? In bed asleep. That's what we're looking for.

Yeah. Yeah. We flatten the curve, right? Instead of that slow decline, we stay healthy and then drop off the cliff.

Just push it out. Just push it out.

Push it out. Sure. Sure. So hormone replacement therapy is not new. It's been around, as you told me, since the early '30s. So what's the, what's the counter, not BHRT, but just HRT. What's the, what's the counterargument?

So let's go over testosterone first. Yeah. We'll go over all 3 of them. There's estrogen, testosterone, progesterone. So testosterone, there's one your body makes, the bioidentical. And the Mayo Clinic says, considers bioidentical body recognized as same, which means the body knows how to utilize it, metabolize it, and eliminate it. Now, the secret is pharmacy companies cannot own organic molecule. They cannot own organic molecule. If it's in nature, they can't own it.

Okay?

So there's 3 classes of synthetic testosterone. One's called an ester, the most common. One's called 19-nortestosterone, and one's called 17-alkylation. That's oral. They all work benefit, but there's some high blood pressure, some blood clot risks. There's a book out of Belgium talks about sex hormones in the brain, says they increase neuronal apoptosis, so brain cells die off sooner, so they increase Alzheimer's disease. There's a lot of benefit, but there's some small risk to them. The human hormone lower, low blood pressure risks, no blood clot risk, and it makes more brain. Just because a pen is a pen, there's different functions, right? It has to be exactly the same. Let's go over estrogen. Estrogen— there's 3 estrogens in the human body: E1, E2, E3. E2 is the most potent. They come out of the egg, and that's the one that's very, very strong. But it has these things called alpha receptors, beta receptors. Alpha is bad, beta is good. That's neutral. So estrogen is very beneficial to the body at certain levels. E1, which is dominant in menopause, is more alpha, therefore more chance for growth. So here's the problem: in the synthetic arm, they give Premarin, which is synthetic, uh, horse estrogen. It's more potent, it has different metabolites, therefore it also eliminates the body in a different pathway that can increase what's called DNA fragmentation and cause increased cancer. So therefore, the bioidentical one does not increase it, but the synthetic might. Now, the, the progesterone's very interesting. Natural progesterone, the one your body makes, decreases heart attack, decreases breast cancer, and decreases dementia. The synthetics in birth control pills and Provera increase heart attack, increase dementia, increase breast cancer. It's because it sort of fits in the receptor site, doesn't make it equal. It must fit in exactly correct so it can be, again, utilized, metabolized, and eliminated. The metabolites are the complication purposes. And the pellet we use is a steady state. So there's no up and down, there's no roid, there's none of that roid rage. The roid rage is a fluctuation of estrogen, not testosterone with the synthetic metabolites. So the bottom line is your body knows the molecule it needs to run the system. That's all we're doing, replacing that structure.

It's, it's identical to the identical, identical. Yeah.

The example I use a lot is sickle cell.

Mm-hmm.

Sickle, a red blood cell looks like a Frisbee. A sickle looks like a sickle, right? There's these two, there are these, an alpha and a beta bond that's covalently bonded by changing one amino acid out of hundreds. The structure changes.

Hmm.

By, by changing one out of hundreds, it changes. That's what's so important. Added up, one electron causes free radicals. Electrons in pairs don't cause free radicals. That's why it really is important. Everything, it's all biochemistry, just apply.

So the, okay, so the synthetic hormones, they're, they can have all of these negative outcomes, right? Yes.

Again, but I see, I mean, clear, even the synthetics have a lot of benefits, a lot of benefits. I was looking to see, can I get the benefits without the negatives? And that's what took me back to the, the ones that used the longest, the actual bioidentical hormone itself.

And how are they, how are they generated?

These, that's interesting. There's a, it's a, a 4-ring carbon molecule called a sterol or a gonane. It's, it's, it's in our body. We form it as cholesterol. It's 27 carbons in the structure. So yams and, and soy, not GMO, just talking to you, the actual plant itself. There's sterols in that that looks close to these things. They're called phytoestrogens, phytosterols. So compound pharmacists could actually take that 4 rings and manipulate it. I'm not a, I'm not a pharmacist and could actually make the structure. So everything's synthetically made, but the final product is identical to what your body makes. That's by strict definition.

And that can be, that can be owned. Yes.

Yeah. Well, that can't be owned. That can be, it can be made by common farm, but it can't be owned. So anybody can make it. Anybody can.

Yeah.

I think the onus truly, Sergio, is on the pharmacy companies that will say, take a testosterone molecule, manipulate it, and then they say that theirs is superior to the one your body makes. I think the onus is on them. It may be stronger, maybe weaker. It may have some of the same properties. But I don't believe, again, I don't believe it's, it's superior to what your body makes. Your body knows what it makes.

Sure. Yeah. If it's identical, it's identical. How can it be superior?

Exactly.

Yeah. Yeah. So are there any downsides to the bioidentical hormone replacement therapies?

Well, the actual chemicals themselves, no. Now the key is to make sure they're balanced. Like if you give estrogen, even if bioidentical without progesterone, testosterone, you can increase uterine cancer. So we know that. That's why they got to be balanced. You need progesterone to protect the uterine lining. You need testosterone that actually balances it. So it's very important to have a balance of all 3 of these in women and balance them in both of them, 2 of them in a man, the estrogen and testosterone. So the balance is very, very important. And that's why we follow up labs very closely. I'm trying to Again, mimic a woman in her 20s and a man in his 20s, but not today's population base, I said, an earlier generation.

So tell us about Optimal Bio and your clinics. What's the cost of the BHRT? How is it administered? How do you monitor?

The administration is very, very important. First off is Optimal Bio. OptimalBio.com is our website, leads to all our social media. Podcast, YouTube channel. Again, I've written 3 books. All that stuff's out there. That's great. So to me, OptoBio's number one mission statement is education. Um, so we like to listen to you come in, listen to the story, because everybody's story is different. It's very important we pay attention to your story. And then I, and I draw a picture of the brain and how it talks to the hypothalamus, the anterior pituitary, the gonads, and all these feedback loops. We spend— I have a big whiteboard in my office. Uh, all my staff teaches how, how this works. So to understand the chemistry. I give them a free copy of our books, you understand the science, our videos. So that's our company. And the question is, what's the route? Cream, shots, pills, what's the best route? And the first route you want to mimic is the ovary and the testicle, and that's the pellet. A pellet's compressed pure hormone that sits in fat tissue and dissolves at a steady rate. That's what we do. It— the technique that we use to place it under the skin in the buttocks area is key. Our technique's a little bit different than most pellet places. There's a space I put it on the outside that has the expulsion rates. The big risk factor, you can lose 12% of men lose pellets. We're less than 1%. Women are less than 1 in 1,000. And the dose is individualized for each person based upon their size, their symptoms, their levels. And again, I try to show them with that when they come in, say a guy our age, you know, 50 or 60s, they'll say, well, my levels are normal for my age, but they're not optimal. So that's why I spend a lot of time educating on how the graph has changed the last 50 years.

So I'm curious though, Dr. Brennan, if someone wants to maintain or restore their hormone levels, this is the optimal treatment. What about somebody who's concerned about a chronic condition, maybe diabetes or even, you know, normal muscle loss, sarcopenia? Is that— is BHRT ever prescribed for those conditions?

Oh, yes, sir. That's what we do here all the time here because we know— because you— men, men, 25% of men have osteoporosis. Men have sarcopenia. Again, working out is great, lifting heavy things great, walking great, but you need the fuel for the cell to generate its best optimal treatment. So therefore, keeping the level at a youthful range will give us the benefit. That's the key.

So tell me again about the, the pellet, Dr. Brennan.

The pellet's been used longer than anything else. 1935 in women, 1937 in men. Compressed, dried hormone. I use a crystalline one. And you want to mimic the ovary, testicles. The endocrine gland secretes the hormone into the bloodstream and the cells that need to grab it. So you want to set as a reserve. So you sit it like in the fat tissue. And it sits there. And as the fat's very vascular, so as the capillaries and the fluid goes over it, it secretes at a steady state. So it peaks in 48 hours and a steady state for 4 to 5 months. That's how it works. So you want to mimic the creams— only about 40% cannot even absorb. Shots have half-life of 2 to 3 days. Even the big— the one that push it orally, it goes to the liver and actually has a only 3% absorption rate. It has a half-life of 21 days. The key is to mimic our ovary, mimic our testicle. And that's what the, this is what the pellet does.

So 4 to 5 months, you said?

Yeah, a woman 5 months, but I place every 3 and a half. She never go back down. A man, 6 months. I place about every 4 and a half months. So the goal is that you don't go back to where you started.

Mm-hmm. So if someone wanted to pursue this, do they need to go to one of your clinics?

Or, well, there's other people there, but Optimal Bio, yes, that's our clinic. Yes, sir.

Yeah. Uh, are you the only ones using the pellet?

No, nope, there's a bunch of other doctors out there. We're the only company I know about that does hormone replacement only by bioidentical pellets. Some clinics offer shots, some offer oral, some offer— yeah, I just wanted to offer the best route, and that's what we— that's what we specialize in, the, uh, bioidentical pellet route only.

Yeah. Wow. Okay. And you have 8 clinics in the South?

Yes. 1 in Virginia, 4 in North Carolina, 2 in South Carolina, 1 in Texas. We'll be going across, going across the country at a nice steady rate. We'll be in Florida. We like the Southeast. We'll go across the country.

Yeah, that's super. So that's great. I see that we're about out of time. Do you have any final takeaways? Anything you hope our listeners take away from our conversation?

Here's the thing, Joe. I mean, again, I looked at your— it's your website, what you're doing. You're teaching to age gracefully. And how I tell people is this: we're all Ferraris. We're all Ferraris. You need two things to drive a car. You need oxygen, and to me, that's the thyroid. The thyroid converts oxygen into energy, and the gasoline must be combustible. That's the testosterone. So what I am is I believe I'm the guy who puts the— I'm the gas guy. I put fuel in the tank.. And then you do the other things. You wash the car, you wax the car, you put air in your tires. That's the eating, the exercise, the stretching, the lifting weights, the walking, the reading, keeping our brain stimulated. That's crucial. But you want to do it with, you know, a quarter of the tank of gas or a full tank of gas. So that's all. It's very simplistic, but that's the whole idea. So a couple things here, Joe, is we're falling at a much faster rate than we used to, not getting as high as we used to. So I want physiologic— my levels are physiologically optimal. They're not super physiological. They're not, they're not stronger hormones that have a stronger potency. They're what our body made. And again, the generation I talk about, again, the pre-plastic era, I'm trying to get to the pre-pesticide era. That's what I want to get to. We've had— we have a 90— over a 90% retention rate. I've done over 50,000 placements. And we have over a 98% retention rate.

Yeah, that's amazing. That's amazing.

You asked about cost before, before we lost that thing for a second. Women are about $4 a day, men's about $6 a day. My personal office, we do a consulting fee, $250, and that consulting fee is good for your whole life. I charge a fee again to talk to us ever.

Wow. So how many repeat dosages are needed? I mean, after 6 months, we just go back for a new pellet.

No, just keep coming back every, about every 4 and a half, 5 months. You keep getting placed forever and ever.

Yeah. Okay. Okay. Do hormone levels ever start to increase as these wear out?

Ovary's doing, the ovarian testicle's already doing it. What's done, like, you know, menopause, it's done being made. I'm tricking the body that you're making more. That's all we're doing by tricking the body.

Yeah. Well, my body's been tricked before, so—

So the big thing is this, to make it uncomplicated, 5 things to age gracefully, right? Sleep is crucial. Sure. Number 2 is eating and eating proper. I'm a big believer in fat, protein, intermittent fasting. There's certain ways to do that, but basically get rid of carbohydrates. In some respect. Complex carbohydrates are good in short terms. Number 3, exercise. Walking, lifting heavy things, that's flexing. Uh, the isometric study, all band work. There's so many things you could do. It's not CrossFit and running triathlons. It's simple stuff. It's basically what we used to do as kids. Fourth is remove stress. And fifth is restore your hormone to do the other 4 things. And you restore your hormones, you can do the other 4 things. To me, that's basically what it is.

Yeah. That's great. That's great. That's super helpful information. Yeah. Thank you. Well, it looks like we're out of time, but before we wrap up, I just wanna remind my listeners to visit my website again, livingto100.club, sign up for my email list, download a free copy of my 9 Tips to Make Living Longer Enjoyable. And if you're affiliated with a senior living setting, Be sure to look for my new training and activity manual, Better, Longer, and Happier. Dr. Brannon, thanks so much for being a guest on our show. Your website is optimalbio.com.

Yes, sir.

And you have a new book coming out, Restore, and you also have another one already on your site, I know, Hormone Handbook.

Yep. Every, yeah, Restore is out March 12th. Pre-order right now on Amazon and, and already can, oh, you can pre-order everywhere. I hope you, hope you enjoy. It's a journey. It's a journey through our, our, our aging process from a woman, a woman and a man all the way through the aging process. And Joe, I can't thank you enough for allowing me to be on the show.

Oh, you're very welcome. Thank you so much. This is great information. Very helpful.

Thank you, sir.

As I've said, I, I love to be the messenger, getting, you know, getting good messages out to my audience. So thanks very much, Greg.

Thank you, Joe.

Take care.

Bye.