What the Amazon Rainforest Teaches Us About Aging Well | Alfredo Carrera | Living to 100 Club

Welcome to the Living to 100 Club Podcast. Here's our host, Dr. Joseph Casciani.

Welcome to the Living to 100 Club, where we explore what it really means to live longer and better. I'm Joe Casciani, a geropsychologist focused on the mindset Habits and Science of Aging Well. Each episode brings you practical ideas and conversations to help you stay engaged, resilient, and purposeful at any age. In today's episode, I reflect on a journey into the Ecuadorian rainforest, hiking muddy trails, sharing lunch with a Kichwa family, living in harmony in the forest and standing on the equator with one foot in each hemisphere. Joining the conversation is our guest and rainforest guide Alfredo Carrera, who was raised in the rainforest until age 13 and now has spent years helping travelers experience the extraordinary ecosystem of the Amazon basin and the wisdom of the cultures that live within it. Alfredo, welcome to our program today!

Hey hey hey— To me, that means a lot. And well, you know, I'm very honored. I'm very pleased that I'm going to be your guest this morning, afternoon or night depending on where your amazing public is listening to you.

Yeah, all hours, I am glad to say we have people global listeners, so that's always good. So tell me, tell us a little bit about yourself. How did you first become a guide in the Ecuadorian rainforest, and what drew you personally to this work?

Well, first of all, Joe, I was born there. I was raised up there. I was living there until I was 13 years old. So pretty much, you know, what, um, triggers, uh, me to be a guide there, first of all, is the knowledge that I have from the jungle, the knowledge I got it from my, uh, grandfather. And I had a really great opportunity to become a guide after some years of studying tourism at a university. And as a coincidence, you know, every single step I did in my life brought me to, uh, to the jungle. And, um, basically, you know, I just found a very deep responsibility for me to show the rainforest, because we all depend on the rainforest. We all breathe from the rainforest. We all get medicine from the rainforest. But many people do not know that, um, do not know that miracle, you know, that is in our planet.

Yeah.

And a lot of people have no idea about it. So what triggers me to keep going on being— or keep on going to be a guide in the jungle is— or in the rainforest is literally to educate people about how important is the rainforest and convert as much as they can people, travelers from other countries to become our ambassadors to talk about rainforest. How important is that?

Yeah, yeah. So I know when we were there, when we visited, uh, for our trip, um, you shared how much your family, your grandfather taught you about how to respect the forest, respect the land, respect the people. And I'm sure that made a real impact on you, and that That's what has impressed me about your work. You still have that, that respect and that passion for, for the, the kind of the whole life that, that goes on there. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so what, um, what surprises people the most, uh, about the rainforest once they begin to explore it?

What have you observed in the visitors Is the impression that people get number one thing out of the greens, you know. I think you might remember the first expression that I told you when we were just going into this little stream is like, welcome to Jurassic Park, right?

Yeah. That's right, I remember. Yeah.

So, you know, that is the first impression that people have, this amazing amount of water, this beautiful green, you know, that surrounds the area. And then, you know, just what is the most impactful thing for people is when we just realize that in the morning we have breakfast in the big city and then suddenly we just come into the river. We are going into this beautiful green with beautiful bird sounds and grasshoppers and insects and You know, I think this is what literally is the first impression of people. And of course, later on is discovered minor details that you don't really see when you just arrive. But when you look carefully, when you look these little details in every tree, in the insects, in the butterflies, in the birds, you know, this is what is like, wow, right? And how much we depend on this green, you know, because when we see this amazing hundreds of years trees, and we're just a mini little things, you know, compared to those huge, uh, creatures alive.

Yeah.

Then, you know, we think, oh man, you know, we're just a very little thing here living in this amazing planet that we didn't know, right?

Yeah, yeah, very little things. Yeah. And that's what impressed me. That's what I learned. And I wrote, I wrote the article about it after our trip that it, it causes us to stop and pay attention and be aware of everything. Because, you know, in our daily life, we're so busy and we don't always stop, and we don't have that mindfulness, that attention, that awareness. And that's what— I think that's what impacted me, and I think the others too, that we stopped and we could be aware of all of the things, the the butterflies, the mushrooms on the stumps of the tree, and the bird sounds and all of that. So how would you describe the rhythm of life in the rainforest? We hear all the sounds of birds, the storms, the animals. How would you describe the rhythm of life in the rainforest?

I think to start, We just have to say that the word that we use today for the rainforest is the Amazon. And Amazon is a very close word to a very old, old word that we use locally to describe the rainforest. And our word for that is Amaçanga in a very old language that many of our people use it. So Amaçanga means the beginning and the end of life. The end and the beginning of life. So how do I describe the rhythm of it? Is, uh, slow, steady, and adaptable, right? Um, the rainforest has a cycle. When one little leaf falls down, it's going to be the food, you know, for another little tree growing up, right? And the rhythm of the rainforest is just amazing for us because we as people that live in the Western part of the world or in the Western style world, you know, we're just like running and you have to do like, do this, you know, wake up, work and coming back home, eat something and then sleep late. And then next morning you wake up and You know, but in the rainforest, I will say that the rhythm of the rainforest is just reminding us to be calm. You know, just reminding us that when the night comes, you know, is the time that we are going to rest because in the jungle everything just go to rest. When it's time to rest. But then comes another creatures that wake up at night and then they just keep going on and on all the time. And then the next morning is when the jungle tell us hello, wake up with these beautiful sounds, tell us, and not with the alarms of our phones, you know, is waking up, is waking us up with this beautiful rain sometimes. You know, that is telling us, hey, this is what you need, this is what you need, you need water to live. You don't need to live in a hurry because, you know, this is going to kill you. Here in the jungle, you got to live calm and enjoy every step because you have to be careful everywhere you step. You have to look first where you go., right? So jungle is very beautiful and will give you all the peace you need, but you have to slow down, right? So this is what I will say about the rainforest. What is the rhythm of the rainforest? Slow down, breathe, and look around you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you for that. It's really adapting, being able to adapt to all the change because everything is always evolving and changing. And I think as we age, I like to talk about successful aging, and that's about adapting to changes too. We always have new events, new things in our lives, new hurdles, new challenges, and it's never perfect. There's always something new coming along, and it is all about adapting to these changes and keep a smile on our face, right?

Yeah. You know, my grandfather used to say that when And I always call my grandfather because he was kind of like my mentor, the person that gives me all these amazing, um, advices, you know. And I do remember once he told me, look at the water, look at the river, right? So it was a big flood, and he said, look at the river. Even if it's a big, even if it's a huge tree in the middle of the stream, water never stops. Water just transforms. Water just adapts the shape that the water needs to take. And this is, I think, how we should age. This is the way I think we should live, not get stuck in these terrible problems right now. You know, finding the problem not like, not like a, not like a problem. It's just we have to adapt and go over the problem like the water does, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. You know, when I wrote the article after our trip, I, I mentioned a book that I read many years ago, a book by David Reynolds. Um, the book is titled Water Bears No Scars. Water bears no scars. And that's exactly the point you're making, that it flows and it experiences the shore and the sand and the trees and the rocks, and it doesn't hold on to those hurts, doesn't hold on to those experiences. It continues, the water, and it has no scars. It bears no scars from always bumping into the, you know, the tree stumps in the river or whatever. So I think that's what your point is too. It just adapts to whatever it needs to do. It just keeps on flowing.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly. Yeah, good stuff. I'd like to just take a minute, Alfredo, before we continue. If any of my listeners are working in senior living or senior care services, you know how important it is to create meaningful engagement, not just fill time. Many of the ideas we discuss here are built into structural programs I've developed for teams and communities. You can learn more at livingto100.solutions. Livingto100.solutions. All right, now let's continue with Alfredo. Thanks for that little break. Thanks. All right, just continuing, Alfredo, we had the opportunity to share lunch with the Kichwa family living deep in the forest. Kichwa family, you know, you took us to the family living off the land, sustaining their life right from everything they grow and raise. How do they view the forest differently from a Westerner? How do they How do they see the rainforest different from other visitors?

Oh, okay. Well, to start, number one thing, everything that we eat in the jungle comes from the mother. Am I referring the mother from the earth?

Yeah.

You put a seed of the cacao, you have a cacao plant to make chocolate. You put a banana plant And you grow the banana plant, you pick it up and eat it. You put a seed of yuca, of a yuca tuber, after 3 months you cut it up and you eat it. You know, uh, you can pick it up, the groves, even the groves, right? So what we see different, with different eyes, is that, um, a lot of people sometimes, you know, think 'Oh my God, they live very poor.' And probably poor is in the perspective, right? Because they live poor because they don't have too much money. Yes, of course not, you know, but they have a land, they have the freedom, they have a river to go fishing, you know, they have a, they have a different world, you know, from our eyes. And let me tell you something, you know, when they go, when they have to go to the cities, when we have to move from the jungle to the cities, right, is a kind of desperation sensation and feelings, you know, because it's so many cars, so much of a pollution, a lot of people, there's a lot of sounds and noises, right, which in the rainforest, most of the things is just like, okay, this afternoon at 6 or 7, you know, I have no more lights, I go to bed, I wake up at 3 in the morning to plan, you know, what is my activity for the next day. 4 in the morning we get energy drink called Wayusha. 5 in the morning you eat something. 6 in the morning you are out fishing, weaving, collecting the fruit, collecting the plants. By noon, you know, we eat something, people keep working, right? There is a lot of things that in the jungle, just calm down. I mean, if it's a heavy rain, right, just stay home. Yeah, maybe making the net for fishing, maybe sharing what was the dream of last night, right? And, uh, this is what the people from the jungle see different, you know, from the other side, right? Is in— instead of, you know, we come back to the point, you know, instead of, uh, listening the alarm clock of your phone at 6 in the morning, o'clock, the birds are telling you, hey, time to wake up, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a, it's a different life. It's a rich life too. There's, there's nothing poor about that lifestyle. I mean, maybe poor in terms of, um, you know, we value money and dollars, but in terms of richness of experience in life and nature and our everything that changes, that, that's very rich, that they, they kind of more wealthy than many of us are in some ways.

And also is the fact, Joe, that, uh, you know, when You talk about when you talk with people there, right? People is more calm, right? They're not worried because they are going to get late to their jobs. They are not worried because tomorrow they are going to get late to the party, or tomorrow they're going to have a lot of traffic, or, you know, so people in the jungle is more relaxed. And this is what is different from there to here. I've, I've been exposed to the two different worlds. Yeah, right. To the calmness of the jungle and to the fury of the city.

Yeah, right.

When you have to, you know, sorry to bring my father and my grandpa again, you know, but one day he said, and I'm going to use some words for that, but he said, are you guys silly? When you are here in the jungle, you just have to go out and pick it up, things to eat. And here in the city, you have to go to a big supermarket and buy things to eat. Yeah, to me, that's very silly because you have to buy things that you just can pick it up for free here, right? You know what I mean?

So yeah, yeah, I know, different perspective. And, uh, you know, everything is, everything is relative. And, um, I think that, you know, I, I remember talking with the family member, and, um, the mother or grandmother, I think, was there helping to cook the fish. Anika. Yeah, I think she was like 100 years old or something like that.

And she was— she's, uh, more than 78.

Yeah, she was doing fine. She had a smile on her face and she was cooking, and she was so proud to prepare the food for all of the guests.

That was very skillful, walking all over.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, so, um, for you personally, um, what has living and working in the rainforest taught you about life?

We all, we all do depend on life. We all do depend on, uh, the currents of the rainforest. What the rainforest teach you as a bird, respect. Yeah, yeah, right.

Can you repeat that, Alfredo?

You know, I, I think this is the word. Yeah, yeah, I was saying that lesson that the jungle teach us is respect. Yeah, yeah, you know, because, uh, we are part of it. Even, even you friends which are living far away from the jungle, right, depends on all the rainforest produce. We as a people that live there, work there, we learn that, you know, we have to respect, we have to take care of it, right? And, uh, one of the things that One of the deepest things that you learn from the jungle is listen to her, is listen the messages, you know, that Mother Earth have for you. And it's not just, you know, like a voice, but, you know, Mother Earth tells you when it's a big flood, you know, she's angry because she knows something is wrong somewhere else. When we get floods today, when we get deforestation, you know, and we have the temperature of the whole planet getting warmer and warmer because of that, she's talking to us, right? So what I have learned from that specific point is to listen, listen to her, because she has, she has something to say, but people don't listen. Right? Because I don't know, maybe we are a little too proud, maybe because we think we are perfect. But also, what you learn in the jungle is that she is perfect. She's the most perfect recycling machine. She's the one that creates life. She's the one that takes life. She's the one that gives us oxygen. She's the one that gives us water on the rain. She's the one that gives us food in the trees. Right, so in one word, I will say respect. This is what I have learned from her, and this is what is our duty as, uh, to me, if I'm talking about myself as a guide in the jungle, to me is make people understand that we all have to respect her because we are just a little tiny person in the chain of life, you know, that It starts there.

Yeah, I'm curious, do you think the people, um, who live in the big cities there, like in Quito, do they have the same respect for nature, or is it just the people who are exposed and raised in the rainforest that have that respect?

Um, I think Respect for nature in general is changing a little bit. It's changing in certain groups of the society depending on the education that, for instance, the values we give to our children. But in the big cities, it's difficult to measure that part because on one hand, there's a lot of people who are educating their children, you know, in order to respect the jungle.

Yeah.

But on the other hand, it's a lot of the technology that is absorbing, you know, this space. Because today, let me just put this as an example, the parents who both work hard to give good education to their children, right? Instead of go to see a mountain, to go to a park, to see the birds, to listen the river, to even just to hear the wind, right? Like, baby, I love you. Here's an iPad. Here's the phone. Here's the PlayStation. Here is whatever, right? And then a new perspective, a new reality is created because many new generations are actually looking the forest through a computer, but do not live it in person, you know, do not, cannot touch, you know, what the energy of the, of the nature given to you, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. So it is, I think, is maybe 80% and this is still a hope, 25% of the people today is kind of like getting little by little into, into nature. But very sadly, you know, the other 75% right now is more attached to work, technology, and not really, not even trying to learn, you know, what is the cycle of a plant, right? Not telling a kid, you know, that this milk is not coming from a from a can or from a bottle, you know. This milk is coming from this cow that says moo and is, uh, hot blood, you know, and has these little horns in there, right? Yeah, you know, this is just like that, right? And, uh, this oxygen that you enjoy every moment is not just creating from, from the nowhere, right? This beautiful oxygen is coming from this plant that you see in the garden, is from these, you know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's, uh, that's the respect that we need to hold on to and kind of appreciate and not dismiss it and not let ourselves get so busy that we ignore what, uh, nature does for us. And, you know, I— we didn't get to mention the bracelet you helped me buy. You selected it, um, of the San Pedro beads, um, and the cord made from palm trees. And it's my reminder that, um, life is always changing. There's always the river flowing and the, the beads and the palm, it just are never changing. So I think you're talking about maintaining that respect and holding on to that respect and understanding that life is always changing. So I I haven't taken this bracelet off since I got back to San Diego. So yeah, thank you so much.

It looks really beautiful.

Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much. This was a treasure. Alfredo, I just, you know, my wife and I both had a terrific trip and we enjoyed learning, but We enjoyed kind of experiencing what you experienced as just a small taste of it, what you have understood in living in the rainforest and being brought up there. So that meant a lot. And visiting the family and visiting the school and visiting the equator, you know, having one foot in both hemispheres at the same time, that was really special. Alfredo, I'd like to ask our guests, Do you want to share your contact information if anybody wants to contact— maybe they'd want to hire you for a trip, a private trip, a private, uh, guided journey? Um, do you— can you share your, your email address for us?

Yeah, Joe, thank you very much. And number one thing, I just want to thank you very much, you know, to give me this opportunity to share a little bit of the rainforest of Ecuador, because it is definitely a beautiful place, is definitely a unique place, is definitely the place that will give you a lot of peace, right? Because, um, tourism is not just— or be a tourist is not just to go to see churches, it's not just to go and see beautiful landscapes, you know. To be a tourist is also experience is to see, is to calm, is just to relax, right? So rainforest is, is all that. And, uh, thank you very much for being in Ecuador. For me, it was a pleasure to get you around, and also Audrey. And, uh, whenever time, of course, you wanna— you were feeling like to come back to Ecuador, big hugs always, and more than welcome to, to join again, you know, this, um, the trips. And, uh, of course, you know, it's, uh It would be a pleasure to share my information because, uh, as much as many as people knows the rainforest, right, for us it is very important because in that way we managed to save it, we managed to help her, we managed to, uh, give her a hand that really needs it, you know, because a lot of people love that, but a lot of people is making really bad things to her. So, um, when every time people would like to come, feel free to ask, feel free to call me. And my personal email is A as Alpha, L like Lima, F like Fox, I like India, C like Charlie, M like Mike, @yahoo.com. E like Echo, S like Sierra.

Great. A-L-F-I-C-M at Yahoo. CM, yeah. L—

sorry, again, A-L-F-I-C-M, right? @yahoo.es.

Yahoo.es. Got it. Got it. Yeah. Well, I'm so glad we connected. I'm so glad you agreed to be on my program. I think this is a very treasured program that I will share with others, and I think all my listeners will get a lot out of it. So Thank you for taking time out of your schedule and keep smiling, keep up the good work, and maybe we'll see you again.

Yeah, looking forward to see you soon. And again, thank you for inviting me to your amazing program and to give me the honor to talk to you and your, your audience.

Yeah, thank you.