Why Current Housing is not Conducive to Longevity with Aaron Murphy

Welcome to the Living to 100 Club Podcast.

Well, hello to everyone joining us today on our podcast. You're listening to one of our Successful Aging episodes this month on the Living to 100 Club program, and I'm your host, Joseph Casciani. Each week, our conversations educate and inspire, helping you get the best out of all the years we're given, regardless of what obstacles come our way. Today's conversation takes a close look at the many arguments for aging in place. Our guest, Aaron Murphy, is a licensed architect. His company, Forever Home, advises developers and homeowners toward adapting homes, both new and existing, to allow the owners to age in place. With these adaptations, our guest has shown that the owners can stay in their homes up to 12 years longer compared with downsizing or transitioning to a new senior living community. What's needed to stay in our home where it's familiar, where our friends and enjoyment lie, and where we don't have to start over? Join us for this practical, honest look at the upsides to aging in place. First, a little background on Erin. Erin Murphy is a passionate design professional, consultant, and advocate for aging in place in your own community. He's been presenting at a national and international level for over 15 years. He's a licensed architect, certified aging-in-place specialist through NAHB, and an entertaining and engaging public speaker. Aaron is a known industry expert and author in the aging-in-place field and a business coach teaching other executives How to Own the AIP and UD Niche of a Home Modification Business. He teaches what it takes to become your, your own local go-to expert in your community. Aaron has been a Seattle radio host on this subject and is a known entertainer and educator on stage across multiple home and building industries. Aaron has been preaching empowering housing for over 15 years from Chicago to Tokyo. Aaron, welcome to our program today.

Thank you so much for allowing me to join you. I wish I could have stopped you in the bio. That's sort of an embarrassing level of length, but I appreciate it.

No, you, uh, there's no reason to stop. You've done so much, you've covered a lot of territory, and I wanted to capture it. Well, Glad you're here with us today. I always like to open by asking our guests to tell us, uh, maybe the highlights that brought you here today. You are really a specialist in aging in place, and you're advocating for that. So what are the, what are the big moments that brought you to where you are today?

Yeah, good question. It's a few light bulbs, and it took a few decades to get me through that, right? First, it was grandmother traveling the world in retirement, playing bridge at a master's level at 5'9" and loving my— when I started at the University of Washington in architecture school to when I got out, she was 5'2", trapped in a hospital bed in the living room of a split-level home in West Portland, Oregon, and didn't know Carl's name, her husband, my grandfather. I didn't need or want to know at 22 about the medical stuff, right, or the hygiene stuff. But being in architecture school, I went Oh my gosh, your split-level home is broken. It just doesn't work. There's no shower on the main floor. You can't get to the laundry or the car. So that was light bulb one, and that was super early. Light bulb two was about 15 years later in my early 30s. I bought a car off Craigslist and two 63-year-olds brought me a vehicle. I said, oh cool, whose is this? Mom, she's 92. Oh, where does she live? Well, in the town next to where I live and moved into assisted living. And I said, I'm doing a little research. I know this is a personal question. Don't answer if you don't want to, but what did that cost to move her in? $150,000 out of pocket and $10,000 a month. That My jaw dropped, right? And so on stage, when I speak, I say, you know, raise your hand if you have a $10,000 mortgage. If you are, if you have one, I'm adoptable. I'd love to see your home. It must be beautiful. We don't have that, right? That's not the norm. But it is the outcome of not planning. So those were my two light bulbs where I said, how can I be different as an architect? Actually help people that really need problems solved and have a unique sales position in my industry and become the expert in that niche. That's how I got started.

Yeah. Well, you've certainly immersed yourself in the, the need and the, um, kind of the transitions that are potentially, you know, facing so many older adults. When you and I spoke, You mentioned, kind of the theme for this program today is that housing is broken for the new longevity. And I have an idea what you mean, but maybe you can explain it to our audience. What's your thinking behind that housing is broken for the new longevity?

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So, it's, you know, about 95% of our houses in the US are stock. They are spec-built by a builder that already has a plan. But the system's actually broken from the very beginning, Joe, if I could take 2 minutes. Right? You might have 10 acres of forest land. But your retirement plan is to sell that as a plat, as housing development, right? And that's a needed thing right now. We have a housing shortage, we have a housing affordability issue. And so you let a civil engineer design 92 parcels that homes can go on. That's a plat. Now you're good. You sold 92 products, parcels. But the buyer of those— your goal right there was to have as many sellable pieces as possible. Okay, so what that means is that under the code and the jurisdiction and state law, You made as many lots, which means most of them are as small as legally possible. That's how you got more lots on 10 acres.

Okay. More return.

And your buyer is a, is a home builder. Doesn't matter if it's D.R. Horton or regional or local builder. Well, their sellable product to the consumer is heated square feet, but you gave them a postage stamp to design their house on. That's why most of our houses are 2 stories with stairs. And take in very little topography consideration, even from the curb to the front door, which is termed as visitability. I love the term because my mom doesn't want to talk about getting older, but if I say, well, don't you want Janet to come to Christmas? I've detached it from an emotional defensive to an engaging, how do we make it inclusive conversation.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

So when you said 95% of the stock built in presumably the US, that means, uh, traditional two-story homes, right?

Built by a builder that is not thinking about universal design, not thinking about aging in place, not thinking about ADA. I've designed 2 million square feet of commercial buildings in my life. Yes, the bathroom in that building, you can turn a wheelchair around and you can have a walker and still wash your hands. And right, that's normal at the bank. That's normal at the stadium. That's— those are your public spaces. The ADA made a fantastic first step start in 1990. There is no such thing as accessibility requirement for housing, period. Until you get up to, you know, 4 units and commercial or public, you switch from the IRC, the International Residential Code, into the IBC, the International Building Code. That's where the ADA lives.

So if we had unlimited land, we know we don't, but if we did, we could build more sprawling residences and have more room for the doorways and bathrooms and all of that. But we don't have unlimited land, so we have to condense it, right? That we have to put as many people as we can in these small postage stamp size lots.

Right, right. But at the same time, if most of these houses are, you know, 2,400, 2,600 square foot family homes for the first and second time buyer that is under 40 years old, that is the sales market for the spec builder, or used to be. What they're about to find out is that there are more older people looking for, number one, less square footage to acquire and store crap in, excuse my French, less to take care of, right? Products that last longer that you don't have to paint and stain every 3 years, right? We want freedom that comes with low maintenance living. And so if you were to go ask your real estate agents in your area what sits on the market for the least amount of time in the last 5 years, the answer is first Ramblers, although a '50s Rambler, the doors and halls are still too thin. But second is at least primary bedroom, used to call it master, primary bedroom on the main floor. Now I take that a step further. And we design houses with better layouts for roll-in showers, zero threshold doorways that don't get in the way. In a spec house, you have a 5x8 bathroom. Good example, Joe. And when you fall in the bathroom because it's wet and you're getting older, you lost your stability, or maybe you blew a knee out, I don't know, you're blocking the door. That costs the EMT 90 seconds. Trying to save your life. Design matters. Good design matters. And good design disappears. We're not turning houses into hospitals. We're making design that works for everybody.

Yeah. Oh, I love that line. Yeah. Good design disappears. So it doesn't stand out as being so different. It just, just becomes part of our day-to-day life. Yeah. So really that's the entrée into aging in place. And you've already touched on a few of these changes. So how do you, how do you define that? Or how do you kind of explain this whole concept of aging in place? Is it all about adapting our, our homes to, to living longer and providing whatever aids that we need?

So you only sell two things in life. Now, I'm not a PhD in marketing, but I've learned this by owning multiple businesses and being an entrepreneur for 20+ years. You only sell solving a pain point or making a dream come true. And so if you think about anything you offer in that context, then the answer to your question really kind of starts with we're selling the dream of independence, autonomy, and freedom. That's what you're offering by offering a house that will work for you in any chapter of life. And this isn't just about aging. We've designed a garage retrofit for a 4-year-old with Rett syndrome so that they could have an independent life on site, on campus with mom and dad, but have an apartment. Okay, anybody. I've blown my knee out. I've torn my Achilles. I've had shoulder surgery from a ski crash.

Mm-hmm.

Your needs are different when your ability is different. It's going to happen at some point. And nobody that designed a house that you bought off the market, just the standard spec house, nobody thought of you. They tried to think of everybody, and that means they didn't think of you.

Yeah, in the world of disabled, the understanding that I have of disability is that we're only disabled to the extent that our environment cannot help us with our handicap.

Correct.

Yeah.

So I think the second part of answering your question, Joe, from a designer's perspective is 70% of my recommendations probably fall under the term universal design. Works better for my 6-year-old, works better for my 86-year-old. Okay, and that's simple things like paddle switch lights, not finger pinch lights, the height of your outlets. There's a number of things. Universal Design has 7 principles. But the other 30%, I'm actually spending the time with you as a designer, Joe, to peel your onion. Because I believe the truth is 3 levels deep. I have to stay in your conversation long enough to get there. What I'm looking for is what happened to both your folks? What are you genetically predisposed to?

Mm-hmm.

I'm gonna have different recommendations if all 3 of your dad's side got Parkinson's.

Mm-hmm.

I'm gonna have different recommendations if all 3 of your mom's side lost hearing or eyesight. But with good design, again, change of color on material level, right? Horizontals to verticals, darks to light. I can notify you with safety information without actually putting yellow bumps and red stripes on things. Okay. White vertical surfaces cause vertigo in Alzheimer's patients. Glare, which is why you quit wanting to drive at night because it scares you, is 200 times more debilitating at 90 than it is at 20. Things change in our body. I wasn't wearing readers 3 years ago.

Mm-hmm.

Things change. Your house needs to be able to change with you.

So, well, 70% universal, that would be smart, um, designed for anyone, right? And 30% more custom or individualized based on what a particular client's needs are or anticipated needs. Is that what you're saying? 30%?

Yeah. Yeah. For, for simple, you know, lick your thumb and test the wind numbers. Yeah. Round numbers. That's about how that plays out.

Yeah. Well, that's helpful. So, um, for people that want to live in their own homes, What's, what are the big changes that they typically face?

The two big sticking points typically are either getting into the home from the curb to the front door or the door you use. And if it's the car door, is there an elevation change to get into the ground floor? Sometimes that's as simple as renting a ramp for 6 months. If, right, if we have a significant change and then our prospectus for life expectancy is short for somebody and caretaking terms, then maybe you rent a ramp, right? There's so many ways to skin this cat, Joe, that what I'm finding is that R&D at the product level is far ahead. Right? When I went to Japan to be on a TV show about aging in place, Japan is 15 years older per capita than we are. So, they got, they had to start doing the guinea pig work of testing lots of things. Now, in the United States, there's a spoon that will offset your Parkinson's shaking, and you can eat cereal with milk, and the spoon stays still. My point though is that right now everybody's working in silos. And an architect really is quarterback and concierge of the team. And that's what we're trying to do at Forever Home. So with regard to the 70% of a house that just works better, uh, we've started populating our website with aging-in-place stock plans, small homes under $1,200, mid from $1,200 to $2,400, and, and the grand plans that are above $2,400. Now you might want to make modifications for your own lifestyle, but that's a good place to start.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. So you mentioned one of the big changes is access from outside. Yeah. What else, what else do we encounter typically when we—

Yeah. So for me, you know, safety-wise, falls are an issue, right? A third of falls, I think somebody goes to the hospital for a fall every 11 seconds in the US. A third of falls are recurrent. Anyway, there's astounding stats around falls. Mostly that happens in a wet environment. So mostly that is the bathroom. And so we usually try to start with changing to a zero threshold shower so that you can move in and out or a caretaker can help you. But independence-wise, it's the ability to not be stepping over And into, you know, porcelain things that are slippery and all of that. Laundry tends to be next. Kitchen is a bigger investment. That's the most expensive room in your house. But having different equipment sizes, heights, locations. There's a reason when you're in a bathroom stall in a public place that the gap off the floor between stalls with the partition is 9 inches high at a minimum. That's so a wheelchair can turn with feet. Okay. So we actually need 9-inch toe kicks in the kitchen, not 4, and stuff like that. If you really want to cook in a wheelchair, be able to use a walker or sit at a countertop, then we need to think about varying heights of surfaces.

Mm-hmm. What about when the master bedroom, or you say primary bedroom, is second floor? How easy is that to adapt?

Well, my world works in a triangle as a designer, and the corners are scope, time, and money, and you don't pick all three. So how easy is a bit of a baited term. Anything is solvable with a checkbook. It usually has to do with talking about time and money that helps us discuss scope.

Okay.

Right there, you know, on a straight stair, I'd probably recommend a stair chair. Uh, if we're talking long-term or mom's going to move in and then we're going to get old and this is wanting to be our last home, let's talk about a small second, uh, electrical panel and let's find a home for an elevator. Maybe one side of your garage is deeper than the normal 20 to 24 feet. And up above that is the closet between bedroom 3 and 4. Bingo. Now I can get from the car to the elevator to the master level, the primary bedroom level. So there's many ways to play the game. My comment earlier to you about $10,000 a month for assisted living. When I think about that versus, yes, I'd like to stay here 15 years longer. Yes, I would invest in my health and my happiness by making my home the hub of my happiness work for me. When I give you that relativity education, Joe, suddenly $150,000 HELOC that cost me $750 a month for a payment sounds a lot better for an elevator in my house than $10,000 a month for assisted living.

Yeah, yeah, that's such a strong, compelling argument. I can see that instead of the $10K a month, we're looking at a home equity loan of whatever you said.

Yeah, you're investing in yourself.

Yeah, yeah. So also, you, you had some real strong opinions about giving up our, our homes to move into these, you know, maybe a smaller apartment or downsizing and giving up our neighborhoods. And there's a strong argument to be made to staying at home just for those reasons alone, aside from the challenges of bigger homes. But for sure, neighbors, friends, familiar people, all of that. Yeah, give us your thoughts there.

Yeah, thanks for bringing it up. Um, a lot of your, your vision— and Joe, this can be interactive, it doesn't have to be me talking at you, let's talk with you. Right? Think about your vision of what makes you happy. Well, I mean, once you're done with the identity that goes with work or career or child raising, you start to get your identity out of community. Um, I know I personally was replaced by a pet when I went off to college, you know, so I was joking about that. My parents just had their 50th wedding anniversary and I did a slideshow for them. With music from the early '70s. And I joke because as I was going through the slides, it went from pictures of— I was an only child, that was medically, they couldn't have another one. But it went from pictures that I was always me and them. The minute I went to UW, the rest of the pictures are them and the dog.

Uh-huh. Yeah. Right.

So when you think about your pets and your garden and your neighbors and your front porch. And that's— that all encompasses the feeling, mental, physical, spiritual feeling of home. Yeah, home is a place. It's not just four walls. And then if you want to couple back in anything financial, moving can cost up to 20% of the value of the sale of your home. So there's 100 reasons No one wants to move, and that's why AARP polls— it's 89% first time asked, do you want to stay home forever?

Yep. Sure, sure. Yeah, as attractive as these communities are, the retirement community, senior living settings, and they're very nice. I'd like to put my list on a number of them that I've seen.

Yeah, yeah.

Um, it's hard to, hard to weigh, um, the pros and cons of these settings, right? I mean, look at the social activity, the engagement opportunities, right, the programs, the activities, the meals, the dining, everything that comes with it. And yeah, compare that to holding on to my own brick and mortar, my own home, my own kind of identity, as you said. Yeah, that's a tough call.

It is, right? And you just, you just tripped over the threshold where At the end, it's not my decision, right? I make educated informational providing data to you, but at the end of the day, only you can decide for you. Most people, the older we get, the less we like change, but there will always be a spot. And that continuing of care, continuum of care, independent living all the way to memory care. They openly admit they're a multi-billion-dollar industry, and they openly admit they only capture 5 to 8% of the population. So it must be— there must be something that's not more attractive. There's always a point where it makes sense. Maybe a spouse dies and we're worried about social isolation, right? Or just straight safety. If we need round-the-clock care, clearly we're in a caretaker shortage in general right now. Pros and cons to being there, right? Can you tell what's happening with mom or dad, or is it another step removed? There's a ton to think about.

Yeah, it's not— yeah, you're right. There's so many variables that come into play, and that, um, that 5 to 8% is still a pretty big number, isn't it?

Yeah, that's why I said, started that sentence with a multi-billion dollar industry.

Yeah, yeah. So that 80, 85% from AARP who want to remain in their homes, that's still the difference. Um, that still leaves 10 to 15% of people that are ready to say, okay, I'm, I'm done with this overhead, over, you know, upkeep and all of that, so I want to change. Yeah.

The last piece I'd add to that, if anybody's doing this mathematical equation in their head right now, is that there will be the cost. Well, there's two things to think about. One is the cost of if not, right? The biggest fear is not making a decision until a fall makes a decision for you. And that's to the planning discussion. We've been working on getting my father-in-law and his wife for 8 years just to have a meeting with an attorney. Okay. And it just happened last week. But compared to 8 years ago, Dad can barely walk. Mom's got dementia. We're in crisis mode with this decision-making. And that's— it just makes it harder. Now, the joke from the attorney, he's 60. He said, I've been running my own law firm for 35 years. And my mother at 85 just told me in my face that I don't know anything about the law. So you never quit becoming the child.

Yeah.

As the adult caretaker trying to give advice. Everybody's trying to do their best, but this thing is, it's emotional. Uh, it's financial. It has some sense of urgency and permanency and mortality. Yeah, and that's hard.

Yeah, yeah, I think you bring up a good point there because all things being equal, it could be a decision between moving from my home to the senior living setting, but it's, it's never a place where things are equal because there's always going to be these new variables, the personal variables, the necessary decisions to make. And we know that Making it in advance is always better than making it in a crisis mode, as you're, you're saying. So when we have a fall or dementia sets in, or maybe a stroke, that's not such an easy decision. Or maybe it becomes easier, probably easier to give up that independence.

Yeah. Yeah. To give up. Right. But as far as you wanting to hold on to your own autonomy and freedom of choice, You've given that up if you wait too long to talk about it, and then something happens to you that is instantaneously putting this decision in someone else's hands.

Yeah, yeah. So it really argues in favor of making these changes to our home before we're forced to make some decision, right?

Exactly right, because I get a phone call twice a month at my architecture firm Mom fell, she's having hip surgery, she'll be in inpatient rehab for 6 weeks. Here's what I need when she gets home. I can't do that in 6 weeks. Right. Permitting takes 6 months.

Uh-huh. Yeah.

So therein lies the need to plan, even though you don't think you need it yet.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah. Being put in a position where we're forced to make a quick decision is never good, right? Especially these major life decisions. So in terms of someone, you know, weighing these options, what are the main considerations that an individual should consider? Maybe a married couple or maybe a solo ager. What are the big decisions to think about?

Yeah, yeah, good question. So I don't know it all, and I don't claim to know things I don't know, which actually sort of leads me to Forever Homes' goal is going to be that we have the resources on our website, and we have the knowledge and connections nationally, and so do, I mean, AARP does. My point is that in my mind, this is a question for what I call the Thriving in Place Dream Team. And it is going to involve an elder law attorney, might involve discussing a reverse mortgage. Definitely probably need to know a contractor who's licensed and bonded and vetted and comes recommended. Probably need a couple of resource connections for the option of starting to interview in-home care. Hmm. Right. There's all sorts of things that come into play, but we can typically, because we've been doing it this long, we can play quarterback and concierge. And for us, it might be 2 phone calls away versus you, it's Google and I don't have a clue where to start or who to believe.

So what would someone see on your website, Forever Home?

So eventually we're still working on that part from— but what we're working on right now is building out the largest stock plan website for aging-in-place house plans in the United States. Now, of course, we can also evaluate your home, your house plans. We can make recommendations. Luckily, just like you and I aren't in person now, thanks to technology. Right. Well, the reason we're living longer is medical and technological advance.

Sure.

So we can solve those kinds of things virtually to assist you. But what you could— what you're going to find on our site here by the end of 2023 is You know, 2 or 3 grab bar options. Which roll-in showers do we recommend? Who's getting the best results for elevators? The cool part about elevators, just like your phone is smarter than the shuttle that landed us on the moon, right? Things get smaller and cheaper and smarter over time. So, you know, we're headed that way with product. But again, you don't know where to start. You don't know which 16 products, let alone then which And then, you know, I can tell you where to put a grab bar on the wall based on the ADA codebook. We probably want an occupational therapist if we're actually discussing inherent changes coming or familial expectation of the future for medical, you know, things that will change for you. It's all team to me. To me, it's, you know, more brains is better.

Yeah, no, I, I can appreciate that. I've worked in healthcare enough to know that the interdisciplinary model is really the best where you have all different specialties giving and taking and offering recommendations. So that's what you're talking about too when you're advocating as well. So you told me about a 12-module course or your book. Tell us about that. Sure.

So I, I wrote a book on aging in place 13 years ago. And that's B2C. That is for the consumer. And it really is to get you started thinking. Uh, there's other books that give you room-by-room ideas. Mine is not that. Uh, it's a really quick read that'll just make your brain spin and make you lose sleep about getting this started. What do you need to get started thinking?

Okay.

Um, what happened, Joe, is over 15 years and 2 million square feet of design and me thinking about how do I own my niche? How do I have a unique sales position as an architect and actually change people's lives? We have become in the Seattle, Washington area, the known expert for aging in place. If you lived in a tri-county area around me, and you call the contractor that I've never even met, if he came to your house, and you said something about your wife aging in place, he would stop the meeting and say, oh, I heard the words aging in place. Aaron is who you call.

Hmm. Okay.

Okay. And I realize now with where we're going demographically, I think in the next 18 months, we have more more 65-year-olds than we have under 5 for the first time in history.

Swapping, right?

For the first time ever. I'm now going to go train the trainer. That's what we've set up with Forever Home Coaching. There's a lot of 3-day courses out there, CAP certification, the one I have being one of them. If you think about that, Joe, by the time you take out breaks and lunches, that's 18 hours of education. Well, I'm not letting you in my mom's house with 18 hours of education to make a decision about how her future will turn out. So what we're doing is saying, look, we've built a business that now does 7 figures in gross sales a year, and we started as a solopreneur, and this is how we became that expert. And now we're going to go teach you what we did because we need 1,000 Erins in the United States right now.

Mhm. So that's the modular course you're referring to?

That is, yep.

Yeah.

And you can do it as a DIY course that comes to you evergreen any hour of the day, or you can add on being coached by us about the coursework.

Yeah, yeah. Valuable resource, valuable resource. That's a major contribution. I have— I really— I, uh, gold stars to you for helping to spread this word and helping others in, you know, similar positions learn more about what are the principles, what do you need to consider, how do you bring in the different team members to make it successful.

Well, Joe, my, you know, this was my midlife crisis. So I turned 50 this year. I will, uh, joke to my wife, I said, look, honey, my, my, my turning 50 panic, there wasn't a Ferrari, there wasn't a 20-year-old girlfriend, but I do need to go ahead and make I just have to find out. I've already been doing it for 15 years and I've been doing architecture for 30. I need to go tell the nation about what I do and see if they're interested.

Yeah. Well, I'm happy to help share that message. Your website is foreverhome.com?

Foreverhome-us.com. Yeah.

US.com. Okay. Well, Aaron, I've really enjoyed talking with you today. I'm glad we touched on some very important subjects, help people with their decision-making. I consider successful aging to really involve a lot of informed decision-making, and this will help to provide some of that information. Yeah.

I hope it's a good resource for your listeners.

Yeah. Yeah, me too. It looks like we're out of time for today though. But before we wrap up, I just wanna remind our listeners to visit my website, livingto100.club, sign up for my email list and download a free copy of my 9 Tips to Make Living Longer Enjoyable. You'll also see an option to contact me with your questions and comments. I welcome your feedback. Aaron, thanks so much for being a guest on our show today. For those who might wanna contact you, How can they do that?

Yeah, so aaron@foreverhome-us.com. Shoot me an email, or the office number in Seattle area is 360-881-0282. A blessing and an honor to share some airtime with you, Joe.

Yeah, well, thanks so much, and thanks to everyone for tuning in. I hope to see you next time.