1-1 Masterclass with one of my students

So far, let me double check.

Mate, you know what happened the other day?

What happened?

I had literally the best sales call I've ever done in my fucking life. Who'd you do? Didn't add Fathom. I was like, hey, so this guy came on like his wife was gonna leave him because he was being lazy.

Yeah.

Um, his wife told him to get a job at Walmart, but he said he wouldn't because he's got a degree. I'm like, I'm like, mate, like, and I was basically just tackling his pride and how that's affecting his marriage. And he's like, I know I'm meant for more. And I'm like, so why the fuck are you settling for less?

Like, yeah.

And then just fucking hammered him, mate. And then I managed to record a bit of the future piece, post it. But I was like, fuck me.

Yeah, like, that would have been insane, bro. Especially because it's someone's pride too, mate.

I would have— I would have used that as like a fucking VSL. No way. Yeah, man, it was so good. By far and away the best call I've ever done in my life. Like, 10 times better than any of them was in the school, and I didn't fucking record it. I was good.

Dude, I like the sales call you did with what's his name? Jesse. That was a good one.

Yeah, I think that one was heavily picking apart language.

Yeah, that's what I noticed. It was really talking about minimizing. He had a lot of uncertainty language and you're just picking apart everything he was saying. He was like, what the fuck? This guy thought— I'm sure he was like, holy shit. That was really good.

I'm not like, I'm not like a heavy pain digger because it's like I get what I need to from pain, but it's like that's not in my— the way I look at it is that's not what necessarily makes a sale because the prospects are already somewhat aware. What they're not aware of is why they haven't solved it.

Yeah.

Which is like what actually makes a sale, which is what I pick apart. Um, So yeah, so today, mate, what do you want to do? Do you want to do a roleplay? Is it a roleplay?

Yeah, let's run a roleplay. Yeah, cool.

Do you want us to do, do you want to do like a full one where I don't interrupt you? Or do you want us to, do you want to do it where you do a roleplay and then I like interrupt and give you live feedback? And yeah, you want to do the second one?

That'll be sweet. The second one. Yeah, cool. Okay, sweet. Okay, let's do an e-com offer. You're basically just looking to make more money.

Yeah.

All right. Do you want me to start right now?

Yeah.

Okay.

All right.

Yeah, Joe, what's the biggest reason you wanted to actually get into e-com and make more money right now?

Yeah, I'm wanting to make some money in addition to just my job. I want to be able to have more income.

Okay, well, why is that? Like, you're looking to make like supplemental income with the job?

Yeah, well, I mean, you know, I live in California and like the economy right now is just ridiculous, but the only way around it I guess is to, you know, what, is to make more money, right? So that's why I want to, you know, make some more.

That makes a lot of sense. I guess like when you said the economy is kind of like ridiculous, like What do you mean? Because the economy is pretty bad like everywhere. So like, what does that mean?

Careful. Um, you can't— you can go into that actually, but one thing is I didn't actually necessarily externalize that because I said the economy is terrible, but the only way around it is to make more money.

More money. Yeah, that's true.

So it's like, yeah, this person knows that the economy is bad but is wanting to do something about it.

So let's just say you just left us like, oh, the economy is ridiculous. Would at that point you would have picked at it, right?

Yes, yes.

Okay, okay, okay.

Um, yeah, keep it in the back of your mind though as well, because it's like, how long has the economy been really bad? Okay, so why is it taken— why has it gotten to this point where he's only now looking at something as opposed to being terrible for, you know, the past 4 years or something like that?

That makes sense. Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, Joe, that's—

let's keep that in the back of your mind for now. Don't just keep that in the back of your mind and then obviously figure out what he does for work, what he doesn't like about his job, and like if he's wanting to do something about that, right? If he's wanting to get out of his job and all, like, and then once you've dug on that, and then you can say, well, how long has this actually been a goal of yours for?

Um, okay, that makes sense.

Just so you've got, just so you've got the juice to reframe the belief.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, you don't want to do it now because you don't have enough juice, right? So what you can say is, because, so my next question would be, okay, so I guess for you too, obviously with the economy, right, to put you into the best position possible. How much do you want to make on a monthly basis, right? Get a number. Okay, and is it just yourself that you're looking after, or your family, right? Figure out what exactly it is. And then you're going, okay, mate, well, I guess— and what is it you're doing for work right now?

Hmm.

Okay, so then why not just like stick with that? And then we'll get an issue, right? Okay.

Yeah.

So just go from the answer that I just gave. So yeah, mate, the economy is, uh, really bad, but I know that the only way around it is to make more money. So I'm, you know, um, trying to find a way to, to do that so that I can get ahead.

Got it. Uh-huh. That, that makes a lot of sense. Well, for you, like, since you're looking to make more money, like, what do you do for a living?

Pause. So I would, I would get a number first, personally.

So, like, how much is—

yes, no, so it's like, okay, so, like, how much are you looking to make from, like, additional from a, from a business to you know, give you that stability that you're looking for.

Okay. Yeah. Uh, for you, like, how much are you looking to make additionally to be able to have like that stability that you're looking for, Joe?

Yeah. Um, around, around $6K would be sufficient.

Yes. And how much are you currently making? Just so I could get like a bigger understanding.

Yeah. I'm, I'm currently making like, uh, $4K a month. So if I'm, you know, if I was to make a, another $6K additional, that would be, you know, $10K, which would be more than enough. Yeah. Okay.

Okay. I do have a quick question. Would you probe even further asking— actually, no, but that's kind of like feature pacing. Like, oh, what does that $10K mark actually allow you to like do once you actually achieve it? Would you probe a little bit more right there?

I'd get more juice on the current situation. Okay, I'd get more juice on the current situation because then when you ask them sort of questions, they're going to align a lot better because we've actually got a polar opposite.

That makes sense. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, Joe, since like you're looking to make an additional $6K to make like $10K overall each month, I guess like what do you do for a living right now?

You don't need to use so many words. Quick thing. Okay. What is it you do for work right now?

What do you do? What is it you do for work right now?

Uh, me, I work, uh, I'm an accountant.

Oh, okay, okay. How long you been doing that for?

Uh, past 8 years.

Wow, 8 years, almost a decade. Do you like it?

Yeah, yeah, it's good. It's pretty good.

Okay, I guess like why not just like double down at your current job and like be able to make more money like that?

So why not like double down on your current job or like, you know, get a higher paying accounting job somewhere?

Or high-paying accounting job. Okay, would you— I guess it's, um, optional maybe, but like, you know how some people are like, oh, why even like start a business instead? Like, why even get into like the business side? No, how do people say it?

Why even like— why, why you want to— you want to come across as stupid, right? It's like, why, why start a business? Why not just, you know, double down on the job that you're doing right now or get a higher-paying accounting job?

Yeah, exactly. Okay. Yeah. Uh, Joe, like, why even like start up a business? Like, why not just like, you know, get, uh, double down on your current accounting job or even get like a high-paying accounting job?

Yeah, well, there's also the time aspect because I've got a wife, I've got two kids, and, you know, if I was to do that and progress in the accounting, I would have to take on a lot more accounts, which means I would have to work a lot longer, which would take time, more time away from, from the kids and my wife as well.

How many hours are you currently working at your 9 to 5 or at your job?

Um, I'm working around 50 hours a week.

Oh wow, 50 hours a week. And you said you have 2 kids. How old are they?

4 and 5.

Wow. They're pretty young. Okay. I guess like for you, when you work those 50-hour work weeks and you're looking to make more money, like, has your wife said anything about that so far?

Mm, too early.

That doesn't land. Yeah, that was too early too. Yeah, too early.

So it's like, okay.

Okay.

So like when, so what I would do is first dig on the time aspect. You said it would take, cuz what I said was it would take more time away.

More time.

Yeah, never said it would take time away, because if I said it would take time away, that means that it currently doesn't. But if I said it would take more time away, that means it's already taken away time because I'm using the word more, right?

Okay, yeah.

So it's like, okay, so when you said like it would take more time away from the kids, does it, does it currently take away time from the kids and, and the wife? Yeah, it does. Okay, like in what way? Oh, like, what have you been— and then you can, then you can probe with probing questions. What have you been seeing that's made you realize this? Or what was the moment you realized that, like, the job was, you know, taking away time from, like, from the wife and kids?

Oh, shit.

Yeah, as a dad, like, you know, and how long has this been an issue for me? 7 years. Shit. I mean, so, like, He said your kids are 4 and 5, so is it fair to say that they haven't actually really seen— had the time that they should have since birth with the kid, with the dad? Yeah, that would be fair to say. Okay, like, as a dad, how does that sit with you? Yeah, what's your wife's perspective on this? What happens if this continues, right? And then, like, because now we've got the juice, but because, like, now we're layering it right? So think of it like— Christian Jack explained to me like this, right? So think of it like you've got, you've got a road, right? Now you can put down the gravel, right? Um, and you can drive across the road. It's going to be very bumpy, right? And your car might get fucked, but you can drive across it. Then what you can do is you can lay the cement, right? Yeah, to make it a smoother ride. But then what you've got to do is you've got to put the road signals on so you actually know where to go, right?

Yeah.

Think of it in that term of like, you've got to get all three. You don't want to just go for the road signals when you haven't laid the gravel or the cement, right?

Yeah.

Does that make sense?

That makes a lot of sense. I have a question, like, I actually have two. How do you How'd you get super good at picking up the small nuances when you're like actually on calls?

Just very good at listening.

Yeah, listen. Okay.

But like knowing what to listen out for.

Yeah.

So the way I'd look at it is it's like, and Kurt does the same thing as this as well, I believe. Um, but it's like whatever a prospect says, there's always going to be like a keyword. Or something they've said that you can dig on. So that's how you figure out your questions based on like a keyword of what the prospect just said or the tone of what somebody said. Right. So like, for example, if you said how much you make right now, I said about 4K, right? It's relatively high, right? But if I said to you 4K, it's like, I'm not impressed with that. Is that enough? Right? And then you frame the conversation differently. So listen out the words that the prospect says, but also the tone at which the prospect says it. Have you watched the language lessons in—

So I watched 3 of them, uncertainty, the minimizing, and I watched another one, I forgot what it was. But yeah. So the uncertainty, like, I know how to pick up on the uncertainty words.

Yeah.

And then the minimizing, sometimes I know how to pick up on it, but it's like not too, too much. But yeah, that's so far what I could pick up on.

Yeah. But it's like, you've got to remember, um, like I'm being very, very picky. The majority of like, like if you didn't do this, you could probably still have like a 20, 30% close rate, but you want to get into 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s.

Yeah, 100%.

This is what you pick up on.

Got it. Okay. And then in terms of asking efficient questions, because as you could tell, when we're doing the role play, I was adding a little bit of fluff. For example, oh, you do this for a living? Or I don't know how to explain it, but you could tell whenever I ask questions, I had fluff at the start and then I asked the actual question.

It's not necessarily bad sometimes. Like sometimes it's good to add a bit of context to the question, especially if you're about to ask like a deep question. It's nice to add a bit of context or soften it. But yeah. But yeah.

Yeah. That makes sense. Okay, sweet. You want to Start again from the top, or do you want to like start from that position, the same position?

Just go from that.

Just go from there. Okay. What was the last part?

So we can get through the discovery.

I know, I know. Uh, what was the last part you said?

Um, so it was like, you know, be like, I would have to sacrifice more time with the kids.

Oh, more time. Like, are you currently sacrificing time with the kids and your wife?

Um, yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, I'm working, you know, 50 hours a week, um, so it definitely takes away time. Um, you know, I'm doing it to, you know, put food on the table, right?

Yeah, yeah, I hear you. I mean, that's, it's definitely like a good thing that you're putting food on the table, I guess. Like, how long has this been going on for though, you sacrificing time to be able to put food on the table for your wife and your kids?

I would say since the kids were born, really, since my first child was born. Because like, obviously when we had the first kid, the expenses went way up. Um, my wife doesn't work, you know, she's a stay-at-home mom, and I had to take on more hours and more responsibilities to, you know, be able to like take that, right?

And like since it's been happening for like 5 years, it's fair to say that like your kids haven't been able to like see you as like— see you enough throughout life, you know?

Like, so it would be fun. Your kids haven't been able to— you haven't been able to see your kids maybe as much as you want to.

Okay, yeah, yeah. Um, is it fair Yeah, yeah. Joe, is it fair to this— is it fair to say that your kids haven't been able to see you as well as you see your kids as much as you want to?

So I would ask that as two separate questions. So you haven't been able to see your kids as much as— spend as much time with your kids as you'd like? Yeah, yeah, that's true. Okay, what about from their perspective? Like, I guess, what do you think their thoughts are on, I guess, not really being able to spend the time with Daddy?

Yeah, yeah. Okay, got it.

And then you can say like, and then you could, oh shit, like, but your wife's expecting you, like, as a father, like, how does that affect you? Like, how does that impact you as a dad?

And then from there it's like, okay, since like, you know, this has been going on for like about 5 years at this point, it's like, when did you even want to like make more money for yourself?

No, not yet.

Not yet.

We can get more, right? So we do that. So we do that question that I just said here and then it's like, okay. And I guess obviously, you know, I mean, I'm sure your wife obviously appreciates what you're doing, right? So you give them a bit of a cookie, right? Yeah. Like build them up a bit.

Yeah.

Right. I'm sure obviously your wife respects you, but like what's her perspective on this as well? Because I guess it's taking time away from her as well, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, sure. And then get like the wife's perspective, right? Get rid of the fucking partner objection.

Right.

Um, but then also, then we can go into the price-cost syntax, right? So what did I say? It's like, I'm sacrificing all this time to put food on the table. So it's— so then what we can— we can use that for the price-cost syntax, right? So it would be like, would it be fair to say that the price you're paying to financially support your family is costing you the ability to emotionally support them the way that you'd want. Oh, right. And then it's like, yes, that would be fair to say after we've got the juice, right? And then it's like, okay, and the price you are paying of sacrificing that emotional commitment to your family, what do you think that's actually costed you?

So it actually costed you—

and get them to do— or you could do future, right? You could do a mini concept. You could be like, what do you think that will that will cost you if this continues.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

So there's two different ways to go about it.

Yeah. You can do past, but it just depends on who you're speaking to. Yeah. Right. You can do past, present, future. But like for this guy, I was like, what is this actually costing you?

Costing you?

Over the past 5 years. And then you get a really fucking— it just takes it a layer deep. Right.

Yeah.

They're not going to get pissed off because It's what they've said. Do you know what I mean? They've said that, right? So you get the confirmation. Like, would it be fair to say this is this, right? How—

I guess, like, how do you get so good at, like, asking the right questions in that part where you're trying to, like, dig for pain, essentially?

No, so it's not like— the way I look at it is you don't try to dig. Okay, because when you're trying to dig, you solely focus on getting them emotional, whereas when you let go of that, you just focus on just genuinely asking the next question. Got it, right? Um, and then once you've got that point, just like, okay, so like over the past 5 years— so let's say this has been an issue for 5 years. Yeah, right. So it's not like, how long have you been wanting to make money? It's like, this has been an issue for 5 years. What have you done over the past 5 years to try and solve this? And if they've done nothing, then we've got a limiting belief and we fucking handle that.

Yeah, right. Yeah.

If they have tried things, figure out what they tried, why they weren't successful. Was it the program's fault? Was it their fault? Did they have a fear of the past objection? How long have they held on to that? Like, let's say they tried something 4 years ago. It's like, would it be fair to say that you holding on to that negative experience has cost you another 4 years of what you've just mentioned?

Yeah.

So at what point do you want to overcome that? At what point do you want to overcome the negative experience? Because do you know what's going to happen if you continue to hold on to that experience? The exact same fucking thing.

Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. Okay, that makes sense. Where should I go from this point?

So do the price-cost— do the price-cost set. I want to hear you do the price-cost set, Max.

Okay, so it's like, is it fair to say that The— is it fair to say that you ultimately, like, trying to, like, provide for your family, be able to, like, support them financially, has costed you— has costed you— he says something about emotional, but how would it work in this case? Okay. Yeah. Is it fair to say that you ultimately, like, looking to support for your family, like financially, being able to put food on the table for your wife and kids has costed you the emotional aspect of you being there for your kids and your wife? Yeah. Okay. And the price of you, like, being able to be there emotionally.

So the price— so the price you're paying of sacrificing X. Oh, okay.

The price of— okay, so the price of you paying for—

no, the price of you and the price that you've paid of sacrificing, okay, time with the family.

The price of you sacrificing time, like emotional commitment with your family. The price of you sacrificing—

yeah, what has that actually costed you over the last 5 years?

Okay, the price of you sacrificing that emotional time with your family Joe, like, what has that costed you over the last 5 years?

Shit. Um, a lot. Um, me and my wife, it's— I don't know, it's like, it's as if the relationship is a business.

What do you mean by that?

It's like, well, you know, we married obviously when we were in love, and then as soon as we've had this kid, it's kind of like it's more transactional. Feels more like I, I do this, you get this, right? It's not like that connection that we once had.

And you continuing to like be in the same situation, do you think it's So acknowledge that, right?

Because that is, for a man, that's a very vulnerable thing to say. Okay, so acknowledge it. I mean, I appreciate you being vulnerable with us. Um, can I ask, as a husband, how does that— as a husband and the, the man of the family, how does that, like, how does that sit with you? Well, what emotion do you feel in your chest right now saying that out loud?

Wow. Okay. I see. Okay. I'll run that. Yeah. I mean, look, I appreciate you being vulnerable. That's deep. As a husband, as a man, with you saying all this out loud, How's that sit with you at the moment?

Yeah, it's tough, man. Um, it's tough.

And I'm gonna pause there. At that point, would you be like, okay, if you could keep continuing, is it worth it? Continue like this, is it worth it?

Or Yeah, you could say just like, so then you could— so there's a couple of different ways you can go about this depending on who you're speaking to. If you're speaking to somebody who like has a bit of an ego.

Yeah.

Okay, man, can I ask you something without sounding like a dick? Why have you put up with this? Why haven't we solved this? Like, why have we accepted this, right? If it's not something, then you could just go into like, okay, so over the past 5 years, have you actually tried anything to get out of this situation? No. Why not? And then we just ask it like that, like, why not, right? And then we are into External. Yeah, now we're into the internal, right? So we've got the logistics, we've got the logistical kind of things, like what they're doing, how long they've been doing it, how much money they make, all that sort of stuff, right?

Family, all that.

Now we've got the external pin. Yeah, now we go internal, right? So then now it's like, so if you want to just say like, why not?

Yeah, why not?

So just say it differently, like, what? Like, as if you're genuinely, like, fucking confused as to why this person's put up with this.

Chill. Why not?

I don't know. I think I got comfortable.

What do you mean, got comfortable?

You don't even need to do that. You don't even need to, because of what I've just said. It's like, mate, with all due respect, what about the situation you've just described to me is comfortable?

Okay, with all due respect, what about this? Okay, yeah, with all due respect, Joe, like, what is all about this? What does this entire situation make you feel comfortable?

Yeah, that's good. To be honest, I don't think it is. I think I'm just afraid.

Afraid? What do you mean you're afraid?

Well, I'm afraid to try something and it not work out and not just disappoint myself but disappoint my family.

So it's more of like, it's more of like you, you're comfortable because you have that fear of failure within yourself, like feeling, oh, you might not be able to succeed with trying something new.

Yeah. And I don't wanna, I don't wanna disappoint.

Yeah, I should.

I don't wanna disappoint my family as well.

When you say you don't wanna disappoint your family and you don't wanna fail, like, do you feel like you holding onto that belief is serving you right now?

Good question.

Mm-hmm.

Good question.

But mm-hmm.

You could go, you could go more, right? So it's like, so what did I say? I'd be like, um, I don't want to disappoint my family, right?

I mean, yeah.

So then what you could say is, right, okay, let me put it, let me give you a different perspective, right? If one of your children came to you and you like with an idea and you knew it was the right thing for them to do, to put your daughter into a great situation for a future, but your daughter was afraid to do it in case she disappointed you, right? What would you tell your daughter? I would tell her to do it. Like, I would be proud of her for taking the step as opposed to not taking the step, whatever. And then you say, okay, so at what point are you going to take your own fucking advice? At this person, at this point, the person's cooked. Like, they're cooked.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. Yeah.

But it's like, when you're gonna take your own advice, man? Like, do you feel like if you continue to hold on to this belief— like, do you think your daughter would actually be disappointed if you genuinely did everything you could to put her in the best position possible?

No.

But if we continue to hold on to this belief, man, What's going to continue to happen? And then we do the— then we do a Dickens pack.

Uh, Dickens pack. Yeah, it's the past, present, and then the future.

Yeah.

Dang, that's some sauce. Okay, shit. So I don't even know where to start with this now.

Um, do, do the Dickens— do the Dickens— like, do you want to just do what I was saying?

Yeah, yeah, I'll give it a go. What was the last line you gave me?

You are.

What was the last line you gave me?

Um, the last line was like the, why don't you take your own— like, it was like, why don't you take your own advice? And then the, actually, feel your daughter would be disappointed. It's like, how do you want your daughter to look at you? the man that did everything he could to put his family in the best position possible, or the man that pussied out and avoided risk?

Yeah.

What example do you want to set for her?

And then from there, do you want me to just do the Dickinson pattern then?

Yeah. No, because it's like, what example do you want to set for her, right? But if you continue that belief, are you going to set that example?

No.

What has it cost to do like avoiding this, right? And setting that example, what has that costed you the last 5 years? How does it sit with you now knowing that where you are and the identity that you, um, portray to others, or like the identity others get from you, is down to your own Your own fear, right? Yeah. And if we continue to hold on to this, what's going to continue to happen, mate? So what do you need to— what do you need to let go of to actually put yourself and your family in the best position possible?

The fear.

Are you sure you want to admit? You don't have to just because I'm asking you to. The only person who can actually overcome this is you. Are you sure? Are you sure you are? Okay, why now though? Why now though, mate? Because it's been 5 years. Like, why are you willing to overcome this now? That's how you actually ask the why now. A lot of people ask why now like in such a shitty way.

Yeah, why now?

Why not just wait until like after Christmas? It's like, no. Yeah, no, that's not how you ask it.

And then from there it's like, oh, he wants to make a change. And then you go into like, okay, like for you, like this time around, like, what do you feel like you need in order to actually become successful?

And it's like, and besides from what we've come to feel like, what do you feel like you actually need from us to actually become successful? Like, to actually put yourself in the best position so you can actually get the result? Oh, I need accountability, blah, blah, blah, whatever this is, what we pitch, right? But then after that question, we just go straight into future pace, right? And this would be a very heavy future pace. It's not like a What does this allow you to do that you can't do right now? Like, when we get you to this position, when you're XYZ ABC without having to worry about blah blah blah blah blah, what will that mean to you? What will that moment be worth to you? Like, and then get the family's perspective on that. And then we consequence, right, on basically never, never becoming the dad that he wants to represent to his children.

Okay.

It's like when your child's 18 years old, right, and she's starting to maybe get around the dating scene.

Yeah.

Do you want her to have a good idea of what a real man is? Oh yes, I do.

Yeah.

Yes, I do. Okay, well, who's the only person who can give her that? Me. Yeah.

Yeah. Damn, that's crazy. I never heard anyone do consequences like that.

Yeah, I bet. Yeah, because it's like, because the other side of the coin is like, we don't set that example, and you know, whenever she's like, something like, if she— like, let me ask you this, mate. If she was to come home in 15 years with a man who's talked— with a man who's the same as what you've been the last 5 years, Would you be happy with that man being with your daughter? No. No. Okay. So what are we gonna do, mate?

I wanna change.

Yeah, that's how we're fucking—

That makes sense. That was deep. Holy shit. That's sauce right there. Yeah.

Fuck. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Dude, I don't even know. How did you—

what the fuck, bro?

I don't know how to come up with all this on the spot.

Like, the thing is, mate, like, it's— but like, should I tell you why though?

Yeah.

It's because you're trying to get the framework, you're trying to get like the script, you're trying to get the perfect questions, whereas I'm not. I'm just listening to what I'm hearing.

Yeah, yeah.

That's all you have to do. You just listen to what you hear and go with it.

Got it.

Right.

Makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense.

Meet the prospect where they're at, not where you want them to be.

Right.

So don't try and get them to a certain part so that you can do a certain thing. I don't try to get them into a certain state so that you can do a certain thing. Meet them where they're at. And then go from there.

Got it. Okay.

But I need to use this fucking recording as a VSL.

No, for real, this is sauce, bro.

This is crazy.

Yeah, holy shit, man, that was crazy. Um, do you have any actionable steps I could do after this one-on-one session?

Just want to— I would— what I would do, I would try practice, practice the framework and everything.

Mhm.

I would try, but I would try and practice it as much as you can outside of like role plays and outside of like sales calls, right? So that you can actually practice it in the real world because that's what it is, right? Because it's like, let me put it like this, right? Let's say your friend came to you, right? Your best mate, right? And he was describing all this situation. He was pissed off, whatever. You wouldn't be thinking about what questions to ask.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's true. You know what I mean? You just ask them. So what you wanna do is you wanna get yourself out of the state of like, this is a sales call. This is like different to real life. Cause all sales is, it's just a conversation. Between two real human beings.

That makes sense. Yeah, my issue— well, like, I know it's like I need to detach from it. My issue is like I'm trying to ask questions that— questions around that go to towards their identity, essentially their current identity, and what they want to identify themselves as later down the line, if that makes sense.

Sorry, say that again.

So my issue is like, okay, I'm trying to, you know how a lot of people, they go after the identity on the sales call? If it's a father or if it's, you know, like a husband or whatever the case is. For me, I'm trying to find the best way to word my questions where it kind of like gets them.

So there's different ways. So there's like labeling, like identity labeling, like labeling someone as a dad or somebody who takes responsibility, all that sort of stuff.

Yeah.

But I would look at identity selling in a different way in terms of basically identity selling is like, let's say somebody wants something, right? But they're doing something completely opposite. That's identity selling, right? So it's like you want to get to here, but you're doing this. Why the fuck are you doing that?

Yeah.

Why are you— if you want to, if you want to make $20K a month, why the fuck are you tolerating $3K a month? Right? If you want, like, for example, it's like if you wanted to marry a fucking Latina, why the fuck are you settling for some fucking 70-year-old woman? Do you know what I mean?

Right?

So it's like, if you want this but you're having that, why? What is stopping you from closing that bridge?

That makes sense. Okay. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, that makes sense.

Does it?

Yeah, it does. I just gotta rewatch it. Yeah, it does, it does. I gotta rewatch the recording and take notes on this shit. Yeah. Do you want to run another roleplay?

Yeah, man, can do.

All right, sweet. Let me get straight to it. Yeah. Joe, what's like the biggest reason or what's— yeah, what's the biggest reason you're wanting to get into e-com to make more money right now?

Yeah, I want to be able to— I want to be able to retire my wife.

Retire your wife. Okay. And I guess like, how long has it been a goal of yours, you wanting to retire your wife?

We're going into what we're doing now, mate. And I'm gonna ask you, you will get there.

It's too quick.

You'll get there at some point, right? You will get there, but you're going in way too early.

Got it.

Right. Because you don't have any juice yet.

I have a question. My bad. I didn't mean to cut you off, but like I have a quick question. So the first ever framework that I learned, I'm pretty sure you're familiar with Bill Walsh's framework essentially, right?

Yeah.

Bill's great. So it's like, oh, what are you currently doing? How long have you been doing that for? Oh, what's holding you back? Whatever the case is. My problem is that I have these different frameworks in my mind and I'm trying to unlearn the, like, yeah, no, yeah, that's my problem.

Bill does it in a similar way in terms of like, he'll ask what somebody wants to achieve and then he'll be like, okay, it's like, what are you currently doing to achieve that?

Yeah.

And then like, how long have you been doing it that long?

Yeah.

Right. Whereas what you did there is you just went straight into like, how long is this gonna go?

Yeah.

Right. It's like, okay, you wanna, you wanna be able to like retire your wife. Like, what— I mean, why is that a goal? It's like, why is that important for you? I clarify. I was like, okay, and I guess like, what, what are you currently doing to like retire your wife? Okay, how long have you been doing that? Is it— yeah, well, like, like, have you been doing anything? I was like, oh, you want to retire your wife? What are you currently doing to— what are you currently doing for income to like be able to achieve that? Um, working in a job. How long have you been doing the job?

Right? Yeah. Yeah.

Do you like it? How much do you make from the job?

Okay.

So like, could you retire your wife from that job? Could you like, if you were to like double down on the hours or, you know, get a promotion or something like, would you be able to do that? If it's like a yes, it's like, then we challenge it. It's like, okay, would you be able to do it like, like in the timeframe that you wanted to do it? And then it's like, well, no. If it is, if it's— if he says yeah, I'd say, well, why don't you just do that, mate? Then we'll get a problem with the job.

Yeah.

And then it's like, well, he doesn't want to do that. He wants to retire his wife, but he also doesn't want to do it the way he's been doing it, right? Although, would you be able to retire your wife with the job you've got right now? No. Why not? Shit. And then we dig, dig, dig, dig, dig. Okay, mate, can I ask then, like, you've been doing this for 5 years knowing that you're not going to be able to retire your wife from it. Why are you still doing it?

Yeah.

And then we'll get the limiting belief.

That makes sense. Dang, that was pretty smooth. Holy shit.

Yeah.

Okay.

So it's like the way that I look is that's one of the worst things you can have is framework, framework paralysis. But it's like the all, like every sales coach's frameworks or whatever, that to achieve the same thing, really.

Yeah.

Right. So it's like, don't try and like mix it, just like pick one and like go with it and dial it in. And that's why a lot of sales reps aren't very good is because they'll have a framework. They'll not make $20K a month with it. So they'll get out to go to a new framework. Right. Then they'll not make $20K a month with that. So they'll go to a new framework, then they'll not make $20K a month with that. So we'll go to a new one. And it's like, if you just stick with the first one, you would've got the $20K a month.

Yeah. That makes sense. Okay, sweet. Yeah. I need to dial this framework in, like really, really internalize it.

Yeah.

Yeah. Do you have any tips around like internalizing like a framework very quickly?

Any tips in terms of what?

In terms of like internalizing a framework as soon as possible.

Yeah. Um, 10 to the power of 3. I used to do this when I was on the doors, when I was doing door-to-door sales. Yeah, it was 10 to the power of 3. So it was, you'd read it out, so you'd, so you'd write it out, right? You'd write out the entire thing, right? You'd read it in your head 10 times, right? Then you'd read it out loud 10 times, and then you'd put away the framework and read it out loud again, but without it there, 10 times.

Got it.

And you just do that every single day.

Okay. Would you just read it out, like, read out loud from, like, the entire script, or would you also play the prospect's words in your mind too, or out loud.

So that's how I would just practice. Like, like you want to also practice like the clarifying and probing questions as well.

Yeah. Okay, sweet. That makes sense. Okay, I appreciate that.

No worries, man.

And then, uh, I do want to hop on a roll ASAP, but I know I also want to like make sure I internalize the script. ASAP too. By any chance, do you know any roles where there's just like 1K tickets or 2K tickets where I could just like dive in, set my own leads, and then try to close like