Alexander Geht – Designer, Innovator, and Founder of Testa-Seat

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Hey everyone, hi, welcome to the show. I want to thank you, thank you, thank you You know, you are always loyal to this show. I hope you know how much that means to me because we will continue telling the news. The news always must be told. So with that, hey, hello, Richard Roberts in Brazil. How are you? You know, I love you so much. Can't wait to see you. Pyongyang in South Korea. Best wishes to you and to all of my friends in Kazakhstan, Indonesia, Japan, Panama that I've been to visit to talk about why you should hire people with disabilities, why people with disabilities have quality of life and dignity, and that they should be treated accordingly. So hello to Everyone, thank you to the US State Department for, you know, sending me on all of these trips. That means so much to me. And right here in the United States, hi Yoshiko Dart. Yoshiko, special shout out to you. You're going to love this show because it's about accessibility and it includes children. So Yoshiko, I know you saw so much in Vietnam and right in Japan. So I hope you can spread this news to them as we have over 137 countries listening to the show. And you know what? Even if you're only one person, one person can make a difference no matter where you are. So shout out to all of my friends around the world. And wow, we have such a great sponsor. Highmark is continuing being the sponsor of this show, and that means so much to me. What a great, great company that they are. Well, I'm very excited about the show today because I met this wonderful young man who is brilliant, to say the least. He is a designer. Innovator, and founder of this great company, Testa Seat. Alex, is it Gett? I want to make sure I pronounce your name right.

Yes.

Yes, correct. Alex, welcome to the show.

Thank you for having me, Joyce. Great pleasure to be here.

Well, it's a pleasure to have you. You know, Alex, there are people throughout the United States and around the world that want to know more about you. So you grew up in Israel. Where in Israel did you grow up? And tell us about your education at IIT and Bezalel.

Bezalel.

Is that right?

Yeah.

Okay. All right.

So we moved to Israel in '95 when I was 8 years old. We was living in small town near Ashkelon. It's really on the south, 20 minutes from Gaza. Really small town. And then after my army service, I moved and I was electronic engineer, was working with the technology all the time. But then I started to like design and I moved to Jerusalem. And started my industrial design ventures. So moving to industrial design, liking it so much, the understanding of how we can make products, how we can design products, driven me also to start my master's degree in IIT, is the Israeli Institute of Technology. And both of B'Tzalel and Technion taught me how to design, how to use technology, and brought me to this place that we are now designing assistive technology using both of those knowledges.

Is industrial engineering, is that similar to mechanical or not?

So it's industrial design. It's a mixture between engineering, it's mixture between how we manufacturing things, how we designing things as well. And I think one of the main things that really appeals also in the assistive technology for me, it's actually how we designing things, for who we designing things, and why we designing the things. So we learning all the processes from really the beginning of the product, asking the questions: who will use the product? Why they will using the product? So it's kind of a journey when we starting to ask the questions of how we use the product, who use the product, then how we designing the product to make it really usable, but by, by this population that we're designing the product for, and then ending up with how we actually manufacturing the product, because there's many different manufacturing approaches. So we kind of covering all this spectrum of why and then how the product is actually life.

Uh, let me, uh, when did you say you moved here to the United States?

Uh, 3 years ago.

Wow, you did a great job in that short time period with English. I mean, I assure you it would be much harder for me to learn Hebrew. So, you know, you really did a good job quickly. Um, okay, well, that's fascinating. But you are now a design engineer. So why, why did you choose that field and begin working with people with disabilities? How did those two things come together?

I will also connect with about what you mentioning and also about your work, why it's so important that people with disabilities will be in workforce, why we need to be among them all the time. There is not enough exposure to people with disabilities from any discipline in education. I think it's also usually we not see enough people with disabilities on streets, on work sites, and in education. For me, it also was almost the same because until age of 24, I, I saw people with disabilities sometimes. I interacted with some of them, but not really understanding the gaps Then the organization that we also have in Pittsburgh right now, it's Tikun Olam Makers. It's an organization that the main focus is to bring engineers, designers, architects together to solve a problem for one person with disability. Once we started to develop those solutions for people with disabilities, I realized just in age of 24 how many people with disabilities exist in the world, how many different challenges they have all the time. And from the industrial design perspective, I saw why there is no enough solutions for them because we have so many different people with disabilities, different ages, different disabilities. They're requiring so many different solutions. But we used to mass-produce all the products. If it's not fitting you, you can't use it, right? If it's not designed specifically for you, you can't use it. So we started, I started to see how many products missing on the market and no one wants to make them only because starting really realizing and working with people with disabilities. And I'm always been a person that looking to solve complicated challenges. And I, instead of looking for those challenges, we have so many challenges to solve. So for me, it started to be something really fascinating, especially because sometimes it's so easy to solve those problems, but it's only help for one person. So usually no one will solve it. Because it's small market or no one really have the time to solve the problem. So for me, this was the really interesting point when I realized that there is so many things that not really done well, and the technology that we have now can really be helpful for do it.

Well, now that is People with disabilities that do not have this access, even here in the United States, do not have the ability to be independent. See, that's the thing about technology that provides accessibility. You can be independent. You can go about, you can go out to dinner, you can go to movies. But most importantly, you can work. And that is where the rubber meets the road, employment. And what I love about what you do with Test-A-Seat is that it is inclusive, a lot of it, for children. There are children that are left out of playing, you know, being able to go with where other kids go. And now with that, enables them to. So, I mean, I just see so many benefits to this, and I'm really happy to hear there are so many people, design engineers, still working on this. Gerald, do you have any questions or comments you want to make?

I just think that the statement you said, especially about the personalization here, is such a huge thing because I think about the reasonable accommodations processes too that happen to support people, individuals in jobs, in school, and so many things. And it's just about doing things often just even slightly differently for somebody. Just a small modification can make the hugest difference in the world for inclusion of somebody and just having that mindset of how does this work for this individual, um, and having somebody who works in that creation space is huge. So I just commend you for that.

And, uh, Alex, Gerald, and our listeners— Alex knows, but to all of our listeners, Gerald Homme, H-O-M-M-E, is the manager of all talent acquisition for Bender Consulting Services and really a well-known national disability rights leader who is joining us today. And Gerald, you use assistive technology.

Yeah, I mean, I use a number of different tools from Dragon NaturallySpeaking to Speechify to the built-in tools in Microsoft Office to read out loud and dictate on my cell phone. So a number of different things that allow me to do things differently. And if those little features weren't baked into those tools, or I didn't have access to those other pieces of software that not everybody else uses, um, I wouldn't be able to be as productive.

And remember, everyone, you've heard Gerald talk about this before, but he lives with learning disabilities, a mental health disability, and PTSD, and migraines. And Gerald With what we're focused on, I'm going to focus on the learning disabilities. Just so you know, whether you have dyslexia, dysgraphia, or I know there are other types, but no matter what type it is, you can work. There is assistive technology out there for you. And if you have a question, you're listening to the show, it's G as in Gerald, G-H-O-M-M-E, G-H-O-M as in Mary, M-M-E, @benderconsult.com. And Gerald, thank you so much. We're so happy to have you with us. We're going to go to break and then we'll be right back. If you just joined us, we're talking to Alexander Gett, the designer, innovator, and founder of Test-A-Seat. Don't go away, we'll be right back.

Since 1985, Bender Consulting Services has served as a national leader in advancing employment of people with disabilities, including veterans with disabilities, with private sector companies and federal government agencies. Bender assists customers with achieving their diversity and workforce inclusion initiatives by tapping into a talent pool of individuals seeking professional positions, including those in the STEM fields. In addition, Bender's services include disability employment consulting, training, and technology accessibility through their HI-TESS line of service. For more information, please visit www.benderconsult.com. Are you currently receiving SSDI or SSI and wanting to work? Did you know there is a free Social Security program called Ticket to Work to help you try work without risking your benefits? My Employment Options is an authorized SSA Employment Network specializing in work-at-home and local job placement in 47 states. Our clients receive a personal counselor to help find the best job fit and a staff-certified benefits counselor for help with Ticket to Work protections. Ready to try working? Apply for free job placement help at myemploymentoptions.com. Everyone has unique abilities, and with ABLE NOW, individuals with disabilities are able to save money while maintaining certain benefits such as Medicaid. ABLE NOW is a tax-advantaged savings program specifically designed for people with disabilities. Open an account online today and start saving for the things that are important to you. To learn if you or someone you know is eligible, visit ablenow.com. ABLE Now is administered by Virginia529. Follow Voice America at facebook.com/voiceamerica for juicy updates from your favorite radio shows and podcasts.

You're listening to Disability Matters. Now please welcome back the host of Disability Matters. Here's Joyce Bender.

Hey everyone, welcome back. If you just joined us, we are talking to Alex Gett, designer, innovator, and founder of Test to See. And I know him and he's just the kindest, uh, person. He's just a wonderful person. Uh, but I've talked about this. Why don't we explain it to all of our listeners? What is Testa Seat?

So Testa Seat, it's more supportive, customizable seating solution. And maybe if you look at the product on our website, or you will see a picture, you not really understand why— what and why so special about this seat. And I will explain why it's so necessary and important. So children with some disabilities— we working mostly with children with cerebral palsy— they not able to sit independently. So it's meaning that with that, usually parents will hold them just to make them sit. But without holding them or having some special sit, they will fall, or they will struggle to sit independently. And it means that without sitting independently, they're not able to even make an eye contact with you. They will not able to focus on any task. It's meaning that in school they will struggle all the time. But also it affects their breathing, eating, communication, but also it's so basic that you will not able to sit independently and eat without sitting. And for some cases, you will also not able to fly because you're not able to sit independently in the airplane. So I learned when we started Testa Seat that sitting for those kiddos, it's so basic. And we making our seats to be more supportive, more lightweight, so they can use them. But also, Joyce Bender, it's not only a seat for a child. We learned and saw that usually those adaptive seating solutions, they're bulky, they're heavy, and they're really complicated. And then the first one that will be affected by that, it's the parent. And we see the parents not able to get out with their children outside of their houses. So it means that they can sit only in their houses. Outside of the house, the parents need to hold them, and we see that all the time, those children's holded by their parents or they just not traveling at all. So we see those seats as really a piece of independency for the child, but also for the families that really struggle to maintain the daily tasks without their children's can seat.

So for our listeners, would you be able to explain how is Chesti Seat different? What makes— what enables the child or adult to be able to use that? What does it do?

So it's not doing too much. Let's say the child needs to be more supportive, the meaning that they need some support from the sides, they need some support from the hips, maybe they need additional strap. In traditional seats, we usually see flat seat, flat back without straps. And then the most ridiculous part, that once you have something a little bit even adjustable for the seats, it's considered as adaptive seating or assistive technology. It's extremely expensive. And most of those sitting solutions are really bulky because there is no tailor or no one can make you a specific seat. Every child is different. Every child have different disability. There is no one today that can customize a seat like a cast or a splint. So we at Testa, we can customize the seat. We can provide really supportive seat with really supportive back, really supportive trunk support. So it's a seat that provide you the support that you want to, to, to have, almost like the, the Formula 1 racers that they have really supportive seat, right? It's really hug them for the entire body, keeps them in place. Exactly the same those children need. They need something that they will hug and they will confident to sit. That's all. It's not too complicated, but it's no one makes them because it's expensive and complicated to make.

Well, that, uh, that's because a lot of times, if of course it's made or manufactured by people without disabilities, they don't really understand, uh, you know, what people with disabilities need or what they would use. Is this for children of all ages? Is there an age limit on this, the Testa Seat?

So we, we can make them for adults as well, um, but we usually see that the, the ages that we serve, it's from birth to 12 years old. This is still the age when the children need to be or want to be on the floor playing with the peers or making some activities on the floor. Maybe they are in the pool, maybe they are in the beach, but also something that can be more portable. So once they making the transition to the wheelchair, usually the seats already not necessary because they're using the wheelchair most of the time. But we still see a lot of families that saying not all the restaurants are accessible, not all the cinemas are accessible, and we want to have something that we can bring with us. And also schools is the same. So some schools will, will provide some adaptive seating, many of the schools will not. So families looking for this kind of additional equipment all the time.

So as a toddler, what would be, uh, what age would you have to be to first use this? You know, could you use this at what age?

8 months. We have children that they just starting to sit, but because they're not able to sit independently, we see that they leaning on the side and starting to develop spinal deformation. And without this kind of supportive structure, we see a lot of those kiddos starting to develop scoliosis, spinal deformations, neck deformations. So if the parents start to recognize this kind of lack of control or muscle disorders, they can start use the seat if they saw the therapist. So we have children starting from age of 8 months, 7 months.

Wow. You know what? I never knew that, what you just explained. I mean, that is a very big reason you should move in the direction of a test seat. I know you do that 3D printing. Could you explain that to everyone, what that is?

So 3D printing is a new methodology of manufacturing. It exists already 40 years, but it starts to be mainstream about 5, 10 years. So the manufacturing approach is like taking a hot glue or a cream of cake and start drawing layer by layer, creating the product. So let's say we have a cube and we starting to to draw the cube with the plastic material that we use layer by layer and slowly making this product. But the unique thing about 3D printing is that we don't need molds and we don't need some special equipment to have to make the, the complicated parts. And also we can use the same technology to produce different parts. So it's like crafting the seed every single time, but using it by machine and not a person. I hope it was clear.

But yeah, that is definitely going to revolutionize manufacturing. It's amazing with manufacturing how technology changes so much. You know, there was a day you'd go into a manufacturing plant, not that long ago in my life, and you would see it packed, you know, all these people working there. All these people, as you well know, in the 1900s and probably earlier, but I'm just using that time span, there were people, like I know, In the '60s, there were people— U.S. Steel, that was their livelihood. And I know that you know about this because all those people lost their jobs, and now Dr. Cohen is on a mission to create a new ecosystem for people with disabilities to work. But even this will make so many changes. That's amazing. It really is. Um, okay, well, hey, it's time to go to our break, and today our break is with Gerald Helmy, who is going to go over some exciting news. Gerald, I'll turn it over to you.

Thanks, Joyce. And this is exciting because Joyce is going to be hosting along with a member of my team Joyce Bender and Jill Zomp, who is the resume expert here at Bender, a webinar next Monday. So that is Monday on March the 10th at 3 PM Eastern time. There will be a webinar that Joyce and Jill will be hosting to help people looking for a job. Right now, people with disabilities or anybody who wants to join to help you understand how to navigate this current landscape of looking for a world. A lot of things have changed in the past couple years in the world of looking for a job with online and updating your LinkedIn profile and building your resume with AI and all these things out there. So there's gonna be this great webinar gonna be hosted where Joyce Bender is going to be imbuing her expertise. The top disability employment expert Joyce Bender is going to be leading this great webinar on Monday at 3:00 PM Eastern time. And we just sent this out to our web team to put this on our website. So very shortly, when you go to the homepage of benderconsult.com, you will see information about this webinar, how you can sign up. We just sent a great news blast about this as we'll be getting people to attend. It'll be captioned. It'll be interpreted. It'll be a great chance to get some insight if you're out there looking for work today and you just want to know how to up your game, how to be a better candidate, how to navigate that search, get a leg up in looking for a job. You got the masterclass from Joyce Bender and Jill Zumpf from the recruitment team here at Bender Consulting.

Thank you, Gerald. So, and Gerald, you are superstar, so thank you for heading this up. I want to tell all of you, you that have lost your jobs, people with disabilities and, uh, you know, non-disabled, I often focus— I, well, my life is focusing on people with disabilities because it's so hard to find employment. But this is open, this is open to all. But listen to me, if you lost your job, go to this webinar. Okay, we're going to talk about how you're re-engineering yourself. We want to help. I want to help. My team wants to help. There's no charge. Make sure you go to this webinar and tell everyone you know about it and go to our website. You can see all about it, benderconsult.com. Www.benderconsult.com. So if it is you, or if you know of people, make sure you have them go to this, uh, webinar that I was talking about. Uh, and Gerald, I'm so excited. That's awesome.

It's gonna be great.

Can't wait. All right, well, Gerald, I know that you have a lot to do because you're getting people jobs So I know you're going to step out and go to an appointment, but thank you for joining us to make that great announcement.

And thank you for having me on, Joyce, and thank you, Alex, for all the great work you're doing. Really appreciate your work in the community.

Thank you.

Good to meet you. Thanks, Gerald. Well, here's what I want to know. Where do you do this? Do you do this manufacturing right here in Pittsburgh? Yeah, okay, that's good, that's good. Now, if someone is listening right now and they're saying, oh my goodness, I have a child, uh, just the way Alex described, with the disability Alex described, and they want to purchase this, what do they do?

Well, the easiest way to search on Google or our website, it's testa. It's like test with a, testa-seat.com. We also in social media, in Instagram, and you also can see how the family is using the equipment and the therapist using the equipment. So both website and social media, testa-seat.

Now, testa, is there a hyphen between testa and seat? Yes. On the website also? Yes. Okay, so once again, T-E-S-T-A— T as in Tom— T-E-S-T-A-seat.com. You've got to go to that, test the seat. Tell everyone you know. But if they go to that, is there a way to contact you?

Oh yeah, my personal contact is all over the website. The emails will go through me, so they can easily send me a personal email or call me.

All right, now let's say someone's listening to the show right now and they want to make a donation, uh, to Test to See. What do they do?

Well, they also— they— we will open this option to donate on the website. They just can contact me and we'll find a way how to make it.

Okay. Well, keep looking because you are going to open that. And I just want to say, everyone go there. You know why? It doesn't matter how small the donation. Don't forget about this. Do not forget about this. It's so important. You are helping children and adults gained freedom and independence by having this equipment, which is so unbelievable. Okay, now, uh, the next question is a little involved because I want you to explain Pittsburgh AbilityTech, Tom, and 412, because all of this is connected— but I often have a hard time explaining the difference. So let's start with Pittsburgh AbilityTech. What is that?

So the 412 AbilityTech, it's a one place that we're trying to create, and we're creating that to connect all organizations that working on disabilities to start communicate with each other. When I moved to Pittsburgh, I realized that there is so many different organizations that working in this domain of assistive technology. But again, because there is so many different disabilities, everyone works in his silo, right? So if we have the Ear and Eye Foundation, they focusing on blind people or people with deaf, they not really know about children with some disabilities. So they not really know what happens in town for disabilities in, in children's or other disabilities. But once we connecting them, so we have in-person meetings, we have a website that you can visit and start see what different services, what different companies exist in Pittsburgh. And this way, when we networking, we starting to learn about all different options, all different services that there in Pittsburgh. And then what starts to happen, it's If I have someone that they looking for job recruitment, I will tell them that I know Joyce Bender. You can go to Joyce Bender and she will help you, right? Or I know this organization that they having accessible living or they have programs for children with disabilities. We start to help each other to refer people to each other because One of the biggest challenges in this domain, it's how you find the services. If you a fresh mom with a child with disability, you just start to learn about all these services, products, and its entire world. But working together, we helping each other to understand what exist, helping the patients, helping the families, and then also helping other organizations just finding those people. Much easier. So this is really in general about 412AbilityTech, but we also see how we now working with schools and trying to get all the schools also not only learn about technology, but how assistive technology can be implemented in the schools. And we have summer camps and we have schools that children help people with disabilities in developing products. So we're trying to make the assistive technology something more fundamental from the early ages because then we know that they will be more empathic and they will know about disabilities in the early age and they will know how to help them in the future.

Oh, so that is so great because it's sort of like a portal, sort of like a place everyone goes to. Yeah, that is really great. And do they— is there a website?

Yes, it's 412abilitytech.org.

All right. Well, okay, moving on now to TOM. What is TOM?

TOM. So TOM, it's Tikun Olam Makers. It's a nonprofit organization, and this is also how I started to realize how many different disabilities exist. So because most of the products, they have a small market, no one will make those products commercialized, no one will manufacture those products. We are ending up with a lot of needs but not a lot of the products. And then Tom, Tikkun Olam Makers, we are working with students Engineers, designers, therapists working, developing some products or maybe some prototypes, even just starting points for some solutions, uploading all this knowledge and all these prototypes to a website that open to all. And in this way, we are creating an open, open source community that can download the existing product or maybe see what different solutions students working on. And we also delivering the product. So let's say we have a prosthetic arm that we developed and we now have someone that needs a prosthetic arm. We can work with them and make them the prosthetic arm as part of the, uh, that Tom Tykum project. But the idea is once we know that no one will make those products, we want to start generating those products to the general community so everyone can use it and contribute to the development of the products.

Now, this started in, uh, Israel.

It started in Israel.

How did that happen? I mean, how did that happen?

So it's kind of event that called makeathons or hackathons that people just gathering together and making different stuff. I was lucky enough to meet a good friend, Sefi Atias, that he was— had this idea of let's make a makeathon that helps people with disabilities. That's all. It was one event with many engineers, designers. But after this event, so many professionals realized that the challenge of assistive technology is huge. And working together, we developed so many incredible products that never— no one was thinking about them. So the community started to grow slowly, and then the foundation started to donate to Tom Piccola makers. Now it's a global movement. We have about 50 or 60 universities in the US with fellows that have every single one of those universities. They have their own camp, not a camp, they have clubs. So they have a university club for assistive technology and they inspiring other students. So it's a global community of thousands of students, volunteers, and professionals. It's just incredible to see it.

Wow, isn't that great how that happened? I always say one person, one idea, you never know what's going to happen. Tom, do they have a— are they based in Israel, Tom?

The headquarters right now, it's in New York. Most of the activity really focused between Israel and the US, but also Europe, but less. Including also Japan and many other countries, but the majority of the activity is in the US.

In where? Where do you say Tom is headquartered?

In New York.

Wow. That's great. That is really great. That's wonderful. Well, if students are listening and they are interested, Could they get— send information to Tom?

This is the best time for students to apply because the next fellowship program registration is open now. If they look at Google and they tap tomeducation.org, they will find the website to register to the next fellowship program. And it's incredible fellowship program that all students can join and work together to make those assistive technology, creating the clubs in their university. So it's highly recommended.

That is awesome. Really great. That is wonderful. Well, I will be spreading the news and I will be putting that on our social media because what a great opportunity. So first, I want to— I guess the goal of Abilitic is just to bring everyone together and also to create this ecosystem because I know Dr. Jeffrey Cohen. At Suburban General Hospital rents out space to people with disabilities, new ideas, or people that are doing work for people with disabilities, and it is unbelievable. And, you know, you get in touch with me if you're listening and you're in the Pittsburgh area, uh, because I will get you in touch with them. But He, he is really working hard. His idea of creating a new post steel manufacturing, you know, something now that people with disabilities and people in general could get involved with. So, Alex, I am so impressed with you and everything you're doing. And by the way, if you're listening to the show, remember, this show is on demand. Right now you'll be able after this to go to YouTube and you'll see some— it says Disability Matters in this show, but also you can go to Spotify or Amazon or Apple. Like if you went to Audible, you're going to see all the past guests and by tomorrow this show, and you can download this show and share it with anyone that you know, and I hope you will do that. But Alex, someone really influenced you, so I have to ask you, who is your role model?

I think it's the people with disabilities that we call them sometimes need knowers. Many people trying to solve problems, but when you start speak with people with disabilities, Usually they know what they need. No one asks them most of the time, but they know what they need. If you start asking them and communicate and work with them, it will be so much easier to develop the solution. So I speak all the time with the families, I speak all the time with the person with disability, and when you stop thinking about them with like a person with disability and you speak with them and you really understand what is the gaps, what the abilities, what they can do, how you can help them, it starts to be a different conversation. So I think I'm mostly inspired with people with disabilities that really sharing about the disability and really explaining how and what they expect, or maybe something can help them. And my mind starts to think about the solutions or how we can help. But yeah, it's always incredible conversations to see the families, to see the people with disabilities. I think it's my biggest inspiration with all the process.

Well, I want to commend you because of your realization of ask me, ask the person with the disability. You know, there's a saying that's famous from when, in the 1980s, when the disability rights community was really taking off and protesting to get the ADA signed in 1990, and the saying was, "Nothing about us without us." In other words, don't have a board of directors telling people with disabilities what they need. Instead, come to us, put us on the board. Same thing here, don't manufacture what you think we need, you ask us. So I commend you, Alex, for understanding that because as you said, who would know more than that person what they need? So that's good. That is great. So what plans do you have, Alex, in 2025 for Test to See?

We hope to get to as many clinics and rehabilitation centers as possible for so many different reasons. One of the reasons we're trying to get to as many locations as possible is because one of the things that we hear from families is that the, the equipment is too expensive, we can't trial it, but then we buy it and we see that it's not fitting the children. So we're trying to be a little bit different than other manufacturers. We're trying to distribute the seats for many different clinics so the families can reach out and trial it. But we also see that many small clinics in suburban areas or rural areas that not really accessible to the city and all the resources they don't have any equipment or they don't have any access to the assistive technology. And then the families that they serving are the same, they need to travel a lot. So we're trying to get a little bit different approach from centralizing and saying you can find everything here in this, the urban area, but we're trying to work. So the goal for '25, I would say, to distribute our seats for many clinicians, therapists, and community centers. We're working with a lot of lending libraries now and community services, so they have the equipment, but they're also providing the equipment for families. So I believe that this will be the, the main goal.

And of course, as you just said, to become more well-known, because I I really urge you to tell everyone you know about TestaSeed. Okay, well, Alex, what message do you have for our listeners?

Search and ask your neighbors if you have a disability or you have someone with disability. Not— don't think that the answer always will be at one place or at one professional that will tell you something that they think. Check it with different communities, check it with different families. I saw so many families that they feel that they lost, and then they found other families and other communities that supports them. So look for the supportive places. And Joyce, you're doing such an incredible work, always reaching out and spreading the word and just sharing different resources. And this is something so important. So don't stop looking and, and searching for different opportunities, different resources. There is so many of them right now. This is also a challenge, but keep looking to keep asking your neighbors as well.

Keep asking. What good advice. And, you know, we spoke earlier about this webinar. If you have lost your job, don't give up. Do not give up. Don't doubt yourself. There is a way. That's why I'm doing this, this webinar. I want to help you. I want to show you how to re-engineer yourself. For example, sometimes very difficult for people in— have worked in the government to understand the transition to the private sector, even especially with their resume or presenting themselves. And I want to help you. I really do. So make sure you go to that webinar. And I also want to mention that you tell everyone else, just go to Bender Consult, benderconsult.com, benderconsult.com. Go there and you can find out all the information. Remember what I said? Don't give up. Don't give up. No, it's not easy, but there is a way. Believe in yourself. So we end every show with a quote. And today that quote is from none other than Steve Jobs, who said, innovation is the only way to win. How true is that? Innovation is the only way to win, said the founder of Apple, Steven Jobs. So thank you so much. Thank you, Alex, for being with us today. Remember Alex Gecht, G-E-H-T, Test to See. Just go on Google, put his name in, find out about it, and tell everyone you know, and when you go out today, in the words of Mary Brooker, remember, choose joy.

Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific time and 2 PM Eastern time for another installment of Disability Matters right here on the Voice America America Variety Channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.