Andy Imparato: Mission of Disability Rights California (DRC)

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Hi everyone, welcome to the show to everyone in the United States and around the world. You know, we We have 17 listening countries and it keeps changing. China, the largest, but we also have Ireland and guess what? Rwanda. How about that? You know, some countries we only have one listener, but I always tell you, I don't care if you're only one listener because you can spread the news. To other English-speaking sites about this show, because people with disabilities have rights no matter where they are. Also, I want to extend my love to everyone in the Ukraine, of people with disabilities. You know, I'm on the board of the World Institute on Disability, and we are trying everything we can to get our resources to you. Uh, so just so you know, We're standing behind you. Richard Roberts, my friend that I first met with the State Department. He works for the State Department in South Korea. Then he went to Okinawa, and I was asked to speak in Okinawa. I love you, Richard. Love you. Gangyeong in South Korea, thank you for always keeping in touch with me. Cheryl Harris, welcome to the State Department right here in the United States. The last time I did a presentation by Zoom this past year for Tunisia, and she was the person that handled all that. She's just the most wonderful person. And Venyumin in Kazakhstan, I'm thinking about you. You know, I'm thinking about when Mary and I, you know, were there with you. And I'm sure you, you know, you're nervous with everything going on, but we are thinking about you. And special shout out to Yoshiko Dart. I don't think I've missed for over 3 years. Yoshiko, you know I love you. I told you I'm going to keep Justin Dart alive in the memory of everyone because everyone should know our disability rights history. Everyone. Uh, and hi, Mark. Thank you for being our lead sponsor once again this year of our radio show. Well, I don't know if you, you, you that have read LinkedIn may have seen what I said about Andy, which is how much I respect and love him. Uh, Andy Imperato, I have known since The President's Committee. Can you believe that? The President's Committee on Employment of People with Disabilities. So now we're talking about 1997, 1998. That's how long I've known Andy. I want to tell you, though, something trivia you may not know. It's when Andy was the CEO of AAPD. Do you know it was Andy that got things changed so business leaders could also be on the board? Of course, AAPD is all about Disability Rights and Policy. But, you know, we need some businesses to also support the efforts, and I can tell you it was Andy because I was the first person that came out of the business community, uh, to be on that board. But since I've known him, he fights the fight for disability rights. He's just an awesome person. I only wish I got to see him more often, uh, but for those of you in the United States and around the world, Andy Imparato is the Executive Director of Disability Rights California and a friend of mine and someone so respected by people with disabilities. Andy, welcome to the show.

Thank you, Joyce. It's great to be here.

Well, Andy, for people around the world that do not know you, I thought we could start by you telling your story, like, you know, where you grew up, why you went to law school, and where and what caused you to become this staunch advocate that you are.

Well, thank you, Joyce. You know, I, I think of myself— as a second-generation disability leader because I came into the movement after Tony Coelho and other people, Yoshiko Dart, Justin Dart, after they all worked together on the Americans with Disabilities Act. I graduated from law school in May of 1990, and the ADA was signed into law in July, 2 months after I graduated. My last semester of law school is when I had my first serious episode of depression and ended up getting diagnosed with bipolar disorder. So, you know, I'm part of a generation of professionals who have been out and open with our disabilities, in part because we have the protection of the Americans with Disabilities Act. So I grew up in Southern California, went to law school in Northern California, started my career in Boston, and was around some great disability leaders in Boston. Met Christine Griffin when I was in Boston. And then came to Washington, D.C. in 1993 to work for Senator Harkin. Spent 26 years in D.C. And, you know, you asked why did I become a staunch advocate. You know, like you, Joyce, I feel like I'm doing the work that I was put on the planet to do. I feel called to do this work. And I just feel very lucky that I've been able to do it during a time of so much change. And I'm really having fun being back in my home state and working with our governor and working with the leadership in our state to try to reposition California as the best state in the country for people with disabilities.

Well, you have— they have the best person they could have there. So I know you'll do a great job. And I will be talking in a little bit about Disability Rights California. But you mentioned you were living with a mental health disability and you found— discovered this or was diagnosed in law school. You know, there are a lot of people with mental health disabilities, Andy, that have a hard time not feeling shame due to stigma about having a mental health disability. When you first received this diagnosis, how did you feel about it?

Yeah, well, you know, I guess the symptoms were scary for me. You know, when I first experienced depression, you know, I went pretty quickly from being kind of a self-confident law student who talked a lot in class to having no self-esteem, no energy, having a hard time getting out of bed, and having a hard time seeing myself as having a career. As a professional. So it was scary, you know, it was like, it was like somebody sucked all the energy out of me. And I didn't, at that point, I didn't know that it was a temporary state or how long it would last. I didn't know if it was treatable with medication. Luckily, you know, I was married to Betsy Nix, who I'm still married to, and she helped me. I, you know, the way the metaphor that I used, Joyce, is I feel like I was on a conveyor belt. You know, I was in my last semester of law school And I could have fallen off the conveyor belt and not graduated from law school and not began my career as a disability rights lawyer, but Betsy helped me stay on the conveyor belt and I graduated. And I was, you know, the depression ended up lifting and I ended up settling into a pattern where about half the year I have low energy, low self-confidence, and half the year my energy goes up and my self-confidence goes up. But, you know, I think, you know, in the disability world, we use the concept of natural support. And I would say more important for me than any mental health provider was Betsy. You know, she kind of helped me when I was depressed continue to believe in myself and do the work that I was trying to do. And when I had my high energy, Betsy helped me you know, was a barometer and could help put me in my place when I needed somebody to get me to calm down or just be a little bit less intense. So I feel lucky that, you know, that she's been hung in there with me for 32 years. And I've had lots of other great mentors along the way, including you, Joyce Bender Bender Bender, who believe in me even at times where I don't believe in myself.

Well, I definitely believe in you, Andy. And boy, you do have a wonderful spouse, Becky. She is just a first-class person. And, you know, thank God he sent her to you, you know, to help you not fall off that conveyor belt, because wow, we would have been in trouble. Look what ended up happening, that you became, you know, so well thought of and recognized. One thing I know about Andy that I can tell you, he doesn't like just pretend. I mean, he really cares about this all the time. He's passionate about disability and disability rights all the time. It's not, oh, I go in, I think about it, you know, 9 to 5, and I'm done. No, that's not him. So, uh, we're so lucky to have him. But here you are now Andy, although I must admit I was shocked when you left Washington, D.C., because I don't know why I just always envisioned you being in Washington, D.C., but now, as you said, you are in the great state of California, and you are the Executive Director of Disability Rights California. Uh, how about telling us about the organization and what your role is?

Sure. So, you know, Joyce, Disability Rights California is one of 57 federally funded protection and advocacy agencies that does free legal services for people with all types of disabilities across the state of California and across the age spectrum. So we're similar to Perry Judd's organization in Pennsylvania. We're similar to the Disability Law Center where Christine Griffin and I both worked in Boston. And, you know, it's a new role for me. As you know, Joyce Bender, most of my jobs in D.C., I was doing policy work either inside the government or outside the government. And AAPD and AUCD, the two groups that I ran in D.C., were much smaller. So Disability Rights California has a $41 million budget. We have over 300 staff, 26 offices across California. Over 100 attorneys. So I feel like in some ways I went from a speedboat to an aircraft carrier. It's a much larger, more complex organization. But, you know, I started one month before the pandemic, so, you know, my tenure here has really been trying to navigate an unprecedented, scary time for people with disabilities and people without disabilities. In the state of California and across the world. So we went from mostly working in offices to working remotely. We provide our legal services and been able to keep everything moving in a remote environment, but it's definitely changed the way we work. And a lot of my advocacy has been focused on the state to try to get the state to make good decisions about crisis standards of care, about prioritizing people with disabilities for vaccines, about making sure that we're not reopening in a way that is unsafe or is going to hurt people with disabilities. And, you know, I have to say, I have lots of new relationships with the state government since I've been here, but most of those relationships are with people that I've never met in person. It's all, it's all been virtual. So I'm really looking forward to meeting some of these people in person for the first time and deepening these relationships where we can actually get together and have a cup of coffee and sit across the table from each other, because there just hasn't been much of that in my first 2 years in this job.

Wow, Andy, when you were talking about the size of Disability Rights PA, it went like— you went from little to a corporation. I mean, it is amazing. How large that is. You have a large organization. I mean, that is a really large organization. And as I said, couldn't have a better person. But then now I do have to move, going to back to California. Now you have to go during the pandemic, uh, and go through that whole crisis and change, and lucky they have you because that, that had to be really tough.

Yeah, you know, I try to see opportunities in crisis, and I feel like in some ways, Joyce Bender, the pandemic has brought us together as a staff more quickly than we might have come together if we didn't have a pandemic. We've been having monthly staff meetings where we regularly get over 250 of our staff on a Zoom. So, we're all together once a month for an hour at a time. That was not happening before the pandemic. And I think it's helped to break down some silos and to flatten out the organization. When I started, like a lot of large organizations, we were pretty hierarchical. And the executive director didn't— was not readily accessible to everyone on the staff. And I've tried to create an environment during the pandemic where everybody hears from me regularly, everybody has access to me directly. And, you know, I think it's helping to create a culture where people can lead from where they are. And I know you're a big believer in leadership, Joyce. I think when you have an organization with 300 people, it's important for everybody in the organization to see themselves as a leader. And that's something that we've been trying to cultivate during the pandemic. And it's been fun for me to see a lot of our staff, some of them have been with us for more than 30 years, who've never really thought of themselves as leaders, but they're starting to lead in lots of different ways. And that's fun for me to watch.

Well, that's because to me, you would be the epitome of servant leadership. And you cannot get— I mean, the only way you can really empower someone is if they too are considered a leader. I know what you mean though about how that change makes you even closer because my internal staff of about 20 people all work from home and will continue working from home because during that first year of all of this, we had the best year we've ever had. And here everyone is working from home. I'm not gonna change that. Some organizations, obviously they have to, but I don't. And then a lot of our consultants or people we place directly at companies, they too are working remotely. But what I was meaning about getting even closer is what we did is we decided that every, every morning, every morning at 9 o'clock, we would have with my 7 leaders that are like run the product lines. Every morning at 9 o'clock, we have a meeting. Now, would it have been like that before? No. So you're right, it's amazing how that has changed things. But sometimes there are parts of this that have changed to the good, no question about it. Okay, so, um, Andy, what is the difference— say that someone goes to EEOC or whomever and they have a complaint, or goes to justice— what is the difference between someone doing that, filing a complaint, and going to you?

So, you know, the EEOC where I worked You know, earlier in my career, I think I was working at EEOC when I met you the first time, Joyce. I think I was working for Paul Miller, who was a Clinton appointee at the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. But they are a government agency. So when people go to the EEOC, they're going to the government, and it's an enforcement agency, and they're saying to the government, I feel that my rights have been violated, and I want you to investigate. And then the EEOC has government employees who are investigators who can go out and investigate and see if they agree that, that a law has been violated and that your civil rights have been violated in the workplace. And they can issue findings. And then EEOC also has the power to take your employer to court and enforce your civil rights in the workplace. The protection and advocacy agencies like Disability Rights California are private nonprofits. We're not government. We have a board of directors that's made up of, you know, private citizens who have a stake in the issues that we work on. We are funded by the government. Most of our funding comes from the federal government, but we are not part of the government, and we have the power to sue the government. We have the power to challenge the government when we feel that the government is discriminating against people with disabilities or violating a law in a way that hurts people with disabilities. So, you know, you could think of us more like the ACLU or more like, you know, a general legal services program, but we're not— we're private. We're not part of the government and we're independent and we have the power to sue the government or to try to push the government to do better on behalf of people with disabilities.

And, and that's a good explanation for all the listeners, Andy, uh, because I think a lot of people think you are part of the government, you know, because of the funding. Uh, but how does someone then, if they live in California and there's something discriminatory going on or something they're having an issue with, how do they, uh, get— what do they do? What do they do to get in touch with you?

Yeah, so the, the easiest way to get in touch with us is we have a website which is disabilityrightsca.org, and again, the URL for the website is disabilityrightsca, for California, .org. And then there's a tab at the front of the website, at the top of the website where it says Get Help. And if you click on Get Help, then you can see our 800 number. And the fastest way to, to get help from us is to call that 800 number and go through our intake process. And, you know, our process helps people figure out whether we can help them or not. We send them information, uh, and, you know, we can do everything from providing information, telling people what their rights are, referring them to other organizations if we're not the right one to help them, or, you know, going further in the process and actually representing them at a fair hearing or representing them in a court if it gets that far.

Well, okay, what is that website again, Andy?

So it's just disabilityrightsca.org, and, you know, we serve people in California, and I know your audience is an international audience, But for people in California, the 800 number is 1-800-776-5746.

Okay. Well, Andy, I also know that you had a presidential appointment to the COVID-19 Health Equity Task Force and that the purpose of that task force was making recommendations that would go to the President and the COVID response team. Could you tell our listeners about that, share a little bit about that? What was, you know, what it was like? What did you do?

Sure. You know, Joyce, this was really an honor for me to be asked to do this. The chair of the task force is a wonderful physician in Connecticut who teaches at Yale Medical School. Her name is Marcela Núñez-Smith. And Marcella reached out to me kind of out of the blue to see if I would be open to being on the Task Force. And I remember saying to her, you know, I don't know that I'm an expert on health equity. You know, I know disability and disability equity, but your mission is so broad. And, you know, she said that she really wanted somebody that really knew the disability issues, that there were other people on the Task Force who could drill down in other areas of equity. And I, you know how it is, Joyce Bender, when we have conversations about equity, when we have conversations about diversity, sometimes disability is not really an important part of the conversation. Sometimes we get left out. And to me, the beautiful thing about this task force, going back to the executive order that the president signed on his first day in office when he created the task force, is disability was clearly part of the mandate of the task force that, you know, But I think the way that our chair talked about our mission, which I really appreciated, she said our mission as a task force is to disrupt the predictable pattern of who will be harmed first and who will be harmed worst during a pandemic. And I think if you look at what we saw in this pandemic in the United States and around the world, old people and people with disabilities and poor people, people living on the margins of society, were the people who were harmed first and harmed worst. So our task as a PANDA— as a task force was to make recommendations to the White House about things they could do immediately to improve the experience of people with disabilities and people living on the margins. During this ongoing pandemic, but also think more long-term about what have we learned during this pandemic that could be applied so that the next time we have a serious public health crisis like this, we're better prepared, fewer people die, fewer people experience the kind of harm that so many people experienced during this pandemic. So, there were 12 public members of, of the task force. And I have to say, Joyce Bender, I really enjoyed getting to know and work with the other members. I didn't really know any of them when we started. And, you know, I feel like it was an extraordinary group of people. And one of the things that I really appreciated is all of them made it very clear to me that they thought disability issues were critically important and they were very supportive of making sure that our final report and the recommendations that we made to the White House had lots of shoutouts to things that could be done better to serve people with disabilities both during this pandemic and in future pandemics.

Well, you know, it's so amazing when you were talking about that. All I could think of, I became friends with Shirell Barber, who is the daughter of Reverend Dr. William Barber, and she is a social epidemiologist and professor, but now she is also the director of the Ubuntu Center in Philadelphia. And when I met her, all the work they were doing with the Poor People's Campaign was on the impact of COVID on the African American marginalized community and then people with disabilities. And, you know, when they would go over some of these facts, oh, it was just terrible. And terrible, of course, for people around the world that, you know, that this happened to. But I love that statement, Andy, the disrupting statement. I love that. Wow, that is really powerful. Yeah, that is really disrupting, you know, the prediction of what happened. Really powerful statement. So, Andy, remember you were talking earlier about advocacy, how it's changed now. How would you describe that, Andy? You know, what I always wonder about is disability rights leaders today. Do you believe that their advocacy has increased? Do you believe it's— how is it— it is different, I would say, than the early days of the disability rights advocates? How would you compare those two?

Yeah, you know, Joyce, when I was at AAPD, we did some strategic planning, and I feel like the last round of strategic planning we did this would have been around 2008, one of the things that really sunk in with me at that point was that the disability movement changed a lot after the internet. And, you know, AAPD is one of many disability organizations that was created really before the proliferation of the internet. AAPD was created in 1995. I don't know if you can remember back in 1995, but the internet was kind of a new thing when AAPD was created. And obviously, as AAPD evolved, the internet evolved, social media evolved, smartphones evolved, all these tools evolved that become powerful tools for advocacy, powerful tools for advancing social justice, powerful tools for connecting people. To other people who have similar interests. And I feel like in a post-internet world, you know, being the head of an organization like the National Association of the Deaf or the American Association of People with Disabilities or the Epilepsy Foundation, it's just different. You know, you're competing with people who are using the internet to connect with your constituents and who may be better at using the internet than you are. So I feel like one of the things that we have to do as leaders in the disability movement in, you know, in 2022 is we need to learn how to use social media and use online platforms to connect with people and to connect them with each other. So in 2008, Joyce Bender, if you remember, like my model for AAPD shifted. We used to say that we wanted to be the AARP AARP for people with disabilities. And I realized when we did that strategic planning in 2008 that the AARP was a pre-internet organization that, you know, like lots of organizations, it took them a while to kind of adapt to an online universe. But my model coming out of that round of strategic planning was the 2008 Obama campaign. You know, the Obama campaign brought together people mostly online on around the theme of hope and change. And I felt like that's really what we need to do as an organization. We need to lean into the internet. We need to lean into online platforms, lean into our corporate sponsors who live in that world, and really become a lot more sophisticated in how we use the internet to connect people to AAPD and to connect them with each other. And to grow the disability movement. So I feel like in, in 2022, what you and I are witnessing is a proliferation of leaders on the internet who aren't necessarily connected to organizations, but who have huge followings and huge impact based on their activity online. And I think for some of us who are older, you know, I'm 56, Joyce, That's, that's an adjustment. It's like if somebody is 25 and is a phenom on TikTok and is reaching millions of people around the world on TikTok, and you're 56 and you've been doing this work for several decades, they may be more effective than you, and they may be having more impact than you're having. And that's hard for a 56-year-old to watch and, and kind of adjust to. But I think that's the world that we're living in. We have to be open to leaders of all ages, and we need to recognize that most of our movement is happening online.

Yeah, that is a huge change, and yet when you ask people about disability leaders, they still cite people we know, and that includes you. So, here you go, you've got this podcast, you got to put that on your website. And share it with you on, Andy. Just to your point, that's an example. But anyway, right now on the half hour, every show on the half hour, we have our news break with someone that Andy knows very well, uh, and it is Advocacy Matters with our own Perry Jude Radesik. Perry, welcome.

Hey Joyce, happy Tuesday.

Happy Tuesday to you.

So this week, uh, it's really important that we talk about the nomination of Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson to be an Associate Justice of the United States Supreme Court, and that nomination has moved one step closer to reality. Yesterday, The U.S. Senate Committee on the Judiciary discharged the nomination by a bipartisan procedural vote of 53 yeas and 47 nays. That means Judge Jackson's nomination is now placed on the Senate executive calendar, and everyone widely expects her confirmation vote to take place later this week. Now, Judge Jackson was nominated to fill the seat of retiring Justice Stephen Breyer. So if confirmed, Judge Jackson would begin her service as a Supreme Court Justice in October. She would become the first Black woman to serve on the U.S. Supreme Court. The disability community is supporting Judge Jackson's nomination. Disability organizations have reviewed her judicial record on disability and other civil rights issues, and these organizations have stated that she has a keen appreciation for equal opportunities in the workplace, government programs, and public accommodations under the Americans with Disabilities Act and Section 504 of the 1973 Rehabilitation Act.

Now, advocacy matters.

If you want to learn more about the nomination of Judge Jackson and the review of her record by disability organizations, check out disabilityrightspa.org, click on today's advocacy matters segment. When you do that, you're gonna find links to Judge Jackson's background, a letter to the Senate Judiciary Committee from national, state, and local disability organizations, and a thorough review of her record on disability issues from the Bazelon Center for Mental Health. You'll also find a link to the American Association of People with Disabilities. They have an action page, and there you can support, um, Judge Jackson by contacting your U.S. senators through that action page. So, Joyce, a very exciting week, and we're happy to share this news.

And Perry, um, what are you asking our listeners to do then?

So go to disabilityrightspa.org, click on today's Advocacy Matters segment, find the links to Judge Jackson's record on disability issues, find the link to the American Association of People with Disabilities action page, and support her by contacting your U.S. senators this week.

Well, there you go. Isn't that exciting? That is exciting, but it won't be easy, but it is exciting news. And Perry, I think you know this person on the radio show today.

I do. I've been listening. I love Andy's, uh, take on where things are for the disability community. I love seeing him at meetings. It's a, it's a pleasure to work with him in the Protection and Advocacy Network.

And Andy, I'll bet you feel the same way about Perry.

I do. And, you know, Joyce Bender is doing a once-in-a-generation thing right now. She is leading the committee that is hiring a new executive director for our National Disability Rights Network. Curt Decker has been around longer than you and me, Joyce, and that's saying something. He's been in that role for about 4 decades. From the beginning when, when our organization was created. So big shoes to fill, and I'm grateful to Perry Jude for leading the process to try to find a successor.

Well, thank you so much, and Perry, always a great job. We'll be ready for you with news on the next show.

Hey, take care everyone, bye-bye.

Hey Andy, back to what you were saying a little bit ago about the difference Do you feel in any— do you feel that, you know, as you said, being on TikTok or Twitter or Facebook or Instagram or whatever it is that you're on, do you feel that in any way diminishes the passion? Because, you know, it's different, as you said before, even with Teams or Zoom, it's different talking there versus being like, you know, feet to the ground in D.C. or California or wherever, you know, out at meetings, protests, parades, whatever it is. What do you think about that?

Well, I think, you know, Joyce Bender, you know, one of the beautiful things about AAPD is that it's a cross-disability organization. And I feel like our movement is so diverse, you know, racially and ethnically diverse, diverse across different categories of disabilities, geographically, politically, you know, in every way we are so diverse that having a way for lots of people's voices to be heard and lifted up is a good thing. You know, if the only people you talk to are Tony Coelho, Justin Dart, Tom Harkin, you know, these folks that were these iconic leaders, who helped kind of get our movement launched, Judy Heumann, you know, I King Jordan, you know, you miss the diversity that exists within our community. So, for me, I think it's a good thing that we have lots of voices getting lifted up. I think we need people like Maria Towne to bring all these voices together around a unified agenda, and on some days I feel like that's happening, and it's exciting. And on some days I feel like we're not unified enough and we still have to do work. I think one of the most important skills for a disability leader, and this was true when I started my career and it's still true, is we need to be able to bring people together, make everybody feel like they have a role, that they're, that they have, you know, they can add value to our movement and help the movement coalesce around common priorities. And as you know, with our community as diverse as we are, that's not always an easy thing to do.

Yeah, that is so true. And remember, you told me a long time ago, the person that was able to get everyone together, because what is really upsetting is when one disability group doesn't like another disability group and creates all these silos. And I remember you telling me how Justin Dart was able to bring everyone together.

Well, I mean, for me, Joyce, there were two pieces to that. When you were with Justin, he made you feel like you were important no matter who you were, and he had genuine love for the people that he was working with. And he made you feel that love, you know. So I think part of the reason Justin was able to bring people together is he brought out the best in people, and I feel like the way he did that was by genuinely making everybody feel like they mattered to him. And that's a, that's a unique skill that he had as a leader, but I really feel like it's a very important skill for our movement.

Yeah, I do. So, Andy, that's your job now.

That's, that's all of our job, Joyce.

Well, um, Andy, you know, we have, um, losing Mary is like the worst thing that ever happened to me. And we started the Mary Brocker Mental Health Initiative at the Bender Leadership Academy for high school students with mental health disabilities because Mary lived with depression for 40 years. Unfortunately, even though someone was with her when it happened, you know, she had that freak hiking accident, but because of her love for young people with— all young people, but for personal reasons, mental health disabilities, we started this Mary Brocker Healthcare Initiative And our campaign is #NotAshamed because of the stigma. I remember going with you years ago to some event. I remember you didn't care for it because on the screen they had like these dancing elephants or something. It was very unusual, but Andy How much progress do you think we have made reducing the stigma?

Well, first, Joyce Bender, I think this is the first time you and I are actually talking since Mary died. So let me just say that I'm so grateful for Mary's leadership and for your relationship with Mary and what the two of you did together over so many years. And it's a huge loss. And I just want you to know I've been thinking a lot about you and your staff and your team and your families. I know you— Mary was like part of your family. So it's a huge loss. And I'm just— I'm very sad about it, but grateful for her life.

Thank you.

You know, on the issue of, you know, how we're doing on stigma and mental health disabilities, you know, it's complicated. Joyce, I think people like Simone Biles and Naomi Osaka give me some hope because I feel like they've normalized talking about mental health and self-care in a way that makes it easier for other young people to be out and open with their own mental illnesses. As you know, Joyce Bender, the pandemic has had a disproportionate impact on the mental health of young people in our country and around the world. And I appreciate that the Surgeon General is really focusing on youth mental health. So I, you know, part of it for me is generational, Joyce. I feel like my sons, you know, who are now 28 and 23, they have a way of talking about mental illness where there's not as much stigma as was true for my generation. And I see on college campuses young people are organizing to try to get better quality mental health services for students on campuses. And they're kind of taking a political approach to that and saying this is unacceptable that we don't have high-quality, affordable mental health services that are culturally competent for us on our campuses. So I think in general, the stigma is less intense for young people, and these young people are going to grow up. And I hope as they grow up and move into leadership roles in lots of different sectors, that it's going to become more normal and more accepted for leaders to talk about their own mental illness. As you know, Joyce Bender, I've always been open about mine, you know, for the last 30 years. Going back to my first job in the disability rights movement at the Disability Law Center in Boston. But I did not have a lot of peers that were playing leadership roles that were open about their mental illness. You know, I had people like Claudia Center at the Disability Rights Education Defense Fund, but there just weren't many people like us. So I feel like right now there's a lot of disability leaders who have mental health disabilities who are talking about it openly. Many of them also have other disabilities and they're talking about all of their disabilities openly. So that gives me some hope. But I do think as a society, there's still a lot of stigma. There's still a lot of connections that people make between a mental health diagnosis and a propensity for violence. We just had a shooting in Sacramento And I'm sure some people are wondering about the mental health of the people who fired the guns, as if that would explain why they— why so many people were killed. And the reality is, just having a mental health diagnosis does not make you any more likely to be violent than somebody who doesn't have a mental health diagnosis. You're more likely to experience violence, you're more likely to be a victim, but you're not more likely to be a perpetrator. But I think we still have a societal narrative that equates mental illness with being dangerous and being violent. And as long as that's true, we're going to have a stigma associated with mental illness.

Yeah, I've talked to Jennifer Mathis about this, you know, who's at Justice Now, but I'm on the board of Bazelon, and it's so upsetting to me that every time when you hear on the news about some shooting and we have to find out about the person's, uh, mental illness. I, I hate when they say that. I hate it because just as you said, it's like every, every time that's what caused it. Whereas, as you also said, when you have a mental health disability, you're more, uh, often victim than perpetrator. But that is one of the things that we have to keep working on. Andy, thank you because you are like such a great role model. As a matter of fact, you're in one of my training videos when I talk to people, but you're such a great role model for young people with mental health disabilities because look what you've accomplished and you're not ashamed to talk about it. So, Andy, I have to move on. I'll bet you knew I had to talk about employment. You know me, I have to talk about employment, and it is still high. The most recent ODEP survey had the unemployment rate at 8.8% for people without disabilities— I mean, with disabilities— and people without disabilities, it was only 3.9%. And 70% are still not counted in the workforce or higher. So my question is, do you remember when Senator Harkin used to have all these goals about achieving this higher unemployment over 10 years. And here we still are. I can't believe it's all these years after the ADA, 32, and we're still in this situation. What do you think we have to do to move the needle?

Yeah, Joyce, well, you know, that's something that you and I are both passionate about. And, you know, Senator Harkin is still passionate about. He's hosting a Harkin Summit on Disability Employment in June in Belfast, and the government of Northern Ireland is going to be hosting probably several hundred disability advocates, business leaders, government folks from across all over the world in Belfast in June. And if people are interested in attending or learning more about it, if you just Google Harkin Summit Belfast, you will find the detail. But, you know, I think Senator Harkin really believes that the whole world is at a tipping point on this issue, Joyce Bender. There's a lot of good things happening. I think he and I have both been inspired by how the U.S. Business Leadership Network, now Disability:IN, has grown and how that conference has grown over time. We've been inspired by the valuable 500 initiative that Caroline Casey started out of Ireland. Um, we've been inspired by the leadership that we saw in the Obama administration around Section 503 and Section 501 of the Rehabilitation Act to try to get federal contractors to do a better job and try to get the federal government to do a better job. I'm now working with leaders in the governor's office here in California to try to get the the state of California to do a better job of hiring and welcoming and promoting people with disabilities. So, I mean, I think there's a lot of reason for hope, but the numbers are what they are. You know, the unemployment rate to me is not the important number. To me, the important number is that 74% number that you cited. As long as 74% of working-age people with disabilities are not in the labor force at all, meaning they have no income, no earned income, and they're not actively looking for a job, that is a huge, huge problem. Uh, I don't think there's any problem that's bigger in the disability space than that problem. And I think part of it is the way our disability benefits system continues to punish people who try to work. I think part of it is that we don't do a good enough job intervening with people right after they acquire a disability. Disability to help them keep their expectations high of what it's possible for them to achieve in the labor force. I think there are lots of reasons for it, but the pandemic has been a huge disruption for work in general, and I have to believe that whatever emerges from this pandemic will be more disability-friendly. There is a huge labor market shortage in many places across the United States, so let's leverage that labor market shortage and try to get a lot more people with disabilities into the labor force. So, you know, it's hard to know when and how that number is going to go down, but I hope, Joyce, in our lifetime, that 74% number will go under 50%, and we're going to see a lot more people with disabilities in the labor force and a lot of people with non-visible, non-apparent disabilities feeling comfortable being out and open at work, which, as you know, has been a big part of the 503 implementation, trying to get people who work for federal contractors to actually be open about their disabilities so that the federal contractor gets credit for them.

Got a long way to go, but we will keep on fighting the fight. And before we end the show, actually, since we're talking about employment, briefly, I want our Manager of Talent Programs, Gerald Homi. Gerald, are you on the line?

I'm here.

Hi, Gerald.

Hi, Joyce.

Hi, Mr. Imperato.

Hey, Gerald. We're talking before we end the show about competitive employment, and so being that this is free for all people with disabilities, would you mind telling them about the career fair?

Joyce Bender.

I would love to. So next Wednesday, April 13th, we will be hosting our Bender Virtual Career Fair, inviting people with disabilities all over the country looking for work to connect with the 64 employers that we have signed up for this event across the nation. This is the most employers we've ever had at one of these events. Is going to be next Wednesday, April 13th. There's a lot of opportunity with companies like Wells Fargo, ANSYS, federal agencies like the Navy, lots of great opportunities out there for people with disabilities to connect with employers for jobs. And big shout out to CareerEco for your work helping with us put this together. If you want to learn more, just go to careereco.com. That's careereco.com/events/disability. And thanks for letting me hop on to make that announcement. Joyce Bender.

And Andy, can they find us through our website, the career fair?

They can find the career fair on the Bender Consult website as well, benderconsult.com.

Benderconsult.com, just to make it easy. That's good. And Gerald, it's free to all people with disabilities that apply.

Apply, correct?

That is correct.

Okay, come on everyone out there listening, trying to get you jobs, and there is no fee involved. Thank you, Gerald, you're so awesome. Thank you for calling in. And before we end the show today, Andy, it has been an honor to have you with us.

Thank you, Joyce Bender. It's been a pleasure.

Well, we end every show with a quote from a leader in this country, and this is one of my favorites because, as I said, it is in our training video, and it is: "I think it is easier to legislate and see change around bricks and mortar than it is around attitudes," said Andy Imperato. This is Joyce Bender, America's Voice, where disability matters, at voiceamerica.com. And in the words of Mary Brocker, choose joy.

Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific time and 2 PM Eastern time for another installment of Disability Matters right here on the Voice America Variety Channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.