Bazelon/O'Donnell/Hill: 2023 Bazelon Center Awards Gala

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

And hello everyone in the United States, South America, all around the world. Welcome to the show today. And I have to say, all around the world we have— oh my goodness, no— listeners from— ready— Russia to Australia. I mean, we have listeners every week. It seems it's 17 to 18 countries. So I just want to say something to you. If you're in that country where you're the only one listening to the show, You are making a difference in the quality of life for people living with disabilities. Because no matter where— like, I have epilepsy. No matter where I would go in the world, a seizure is a seizure. So thank you all so much. I have to shout out to someone very important to me. My adopted niece, Emma Rose. Excuse me, so excited to talk about Emma Rose, I almost choked. Emma Rose is Emma Rose Thomas. Hear me now, she may be in Delaware, but yes, she's a Pittsburgh Pirates fan. And I know her family is there saying, "Oh no, no," because they're close to Philadelphia. But you can't interrupt me when I'm on the air, that's one thing. So all my love to Emma Rose. And then, hey, Richard Roberts in Brazil. He's in the United States right now, but he is at the embassy in Brazil and just a wonderful friend of mine. I can't wait to go to Brazil in the spring and be with him and Carla and all the other disability rights leaders there. And gang, gang, I can't wait till I see you again. We've been to South Korea twice with Gang Young. He is so awesome. And Cheryl at the department, the State Department, hey, originally a Beaver girl. How about that? Beaver, Pennsylvania. She— I met her when she would— when I was working doing a program for her virtually in Tunisia and then Libya, and she is now right here in Washington, D.C. with the State Department. And Venyamin in Kazakhstan, think about you frequently. You know, so many great people connected to the State Department. It's amazing that people don't realize that without them, I wouldn't be going around the world talking about, yes, you matter when you have a disability. Yes, you count. And yes, people with disabilities can be employed. Yoshiko Dark, shout out to you, Yoshiko. You know, I've had you every show for years. I'm giving you that shout out. You know how I love you. And Yoshiko, can you believe this is the 20th anniversary of my radio show? 20 years. Disability Matters with Joyce Bender on voiceamerica.com. So who do I thank for that? You, my listeners. You're the one that has kept this going all these years. I love all of you. I mean it when I say thank you so much for being such steadfast listeners, whether it's live or on demand. I so appreciate it. As a matter of fact, talking about the support of my radio show, Highmark has been the sponsor of this show for years. What a great company they are. They're such a great company. David Holmberg, the CEO, Karen Hanlon, COO, Deb Rice, President, Mick Malek, CEO of NGINN, Larry Kleinman, Chief Human Capital Officer, Dan Honorato, who I know Holly knows, who's over government and legislative affairs, and then all the executives at AHN, from Bruce Meyer to Jim Benedict to Veronica Villalobos. Thank you all. And please, if I forgot you, don't hunt me down, okay? I tried to remember everyone there, but I mean it, I appreciate what they have done for me, what they've done for people with disabilities, and how they support this show. But I am very excited today. You all know I am on the board of the Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law, and like, I am so excited that I'm on the board. I have to tell you before I introduce Holly, you know, I sat with Holly years ago at a dinner for Tony. And you know who was there? Wonder Woman. Yes, she was. Linda was one of the speakers that evening, coming around to our table, and this is when I met Holly O'Donnell, President and CEO of the Bazelon Center, Jill Bazelon, member of the Board of Trustees, and the great Eve Hill, who is the Chair of the Board I am so proud to be on that board. Welcome, welcome to the show. I am so excited that one of the people on the show today is Jill Bazelon. Yeah, you probably recognize that name. Uh, her grandfather is key to the Bazelon Center and a giant in the Bazelon history. So Jill, would you mind if we start with you by sharing your grandfather's story with our listeners?

Yes, absolutely. Good afternoon, Joyce Bender, and to Eve and to Hallie. Thank you so much for having me. We're really happy to be here. And I think first and foremost, my grandfather would be so excited about the idea of an in-person event, which we will be in D.C. And we're going to have a lot more information about how to sign up and how to contribute and support the event, because my grandfather was a really a big fan of bringing people together. My grandparents both entertained a lot in D.C. and, you know, just made a point of meeting people and learning from different stories. So, we are really excited about that, and we are going to have more information about that. Yes, and my grandfather would just, I think, be so proud and inspired by the work of the Baslam Center. We are going to be talking about, you know, recent victories we have had around rights and mental health rights for students. Universities. And I think that is just the kind of legacy and story my grandfather would want to be telling. So, yeah, for people who do not know, his story, story starts in Superior, Wisconsin. He grew up the youngest of 9 children without a lot of resources. And, yeah, was appointed by President Truman and then served as Chief Justice on the D.C. Court of Appeals where he had lots of impactful and influential decisions, but is probably most well known for expanding rights for people criminally accused. And then, you know, really thinking about the like most up-to-date and relevant ideas in psychiatry to, to break, you know, to produce groundbreaking law around rights for people with mental health disabilities, which is what the Bazelon Center continues to do today.

Well, he would also be very excited to hear you on this radio show, Jill. I hope so. Yeah, he would be. And I want you all to look up more about him, Judge David Bazelon. Because you will see the things he did to help people left out, marginalized people with mental health disabilities. Eve Hill, the giant you are in the mental health disability, internationally known disability rights mental health advocate. No, really, she is, because when I first got in the industry, um, when, you know, I hardly knew anyone. People would say to me, "Well, did you meet Eve Hill?" Eve Hill, she is a mental health disability rights leader. And you know what? It is my great fortune that I not only got to know Eve, but count her as a friend. And I will say this about her, she is the real deal. She doesn't just say it. She lives it, and that's really what makes all the difference. So, Eve, you're involved in many, many things with your law background and working at a law firm, and you're involved with many organizations, but you have a big job because when you think about it, you are the highest-level person in the United States over a law center for people with mental health Disabilities. You're the top, you are the head, you're the chair. So my question to you is, why did you decide to do this with how busy you are and how much you have going on? What made you decide that you would be the— why did you decide to do this?

Yeah, well, I'm really happy to be here, Joyce. Thanks for that introduction. I chose the Bazelon Center because it's the bravest smartest legal organization in the disability rights movement. So quite honestly, the Bazelon does work that nobody else can do, and, and that's why I want to work with this organization and why I want to dedicate my time to it. I want, I want to do really important, big, earth-shattering, world-changing things, and that's what the Bazelon Center does. So that's why I'm so proud to be here and to be representing them.

Well, I too am proud to serve on the board. Overall, high level, what would you define as the mission of Bazelon to our listeners?

Ah, well, the mission is to basically make the world safe for people with mental health conditions, to make sure the law supports the civil and other rights of people with mental health conditions. In every field of endeavor, including employment and education and just every aspect of life.

Which Lord knows that people with mental health disabilities need that. So Holly, remember Holly? I met you at that dinner with Tony. And Wonder Woman, I remember Joyce Bender. Yes, Wonder Woman visited our table, but she didn't know that I had Wonder Woman with me, Holly O'Donnell. And you are the CEO of the Bazelon Center on Mental Health Rights. But before we talk any more about that, oh my God, we have this great gala coming up that I know all of our listeners will want to know about. It's so exciting, I can't wait. Would you tell everyone about it?

Yes, of course.

Well, thanks for having me, Joyce, uh, Jill, and Eve.

It's great to be with you and of course all the listeners from all around the world.

I'm always amazed how many countries you're telling me that people are listening to the show, and it's awesome. So we We are gathering for our 2023 awards in person and virtually. We're really excited to be able to do both because we haven't been in person since 2019. So we will be doing this on Thursday, October 12th, 2023. We will be celebrating and honoring disability rights and mental health leaders and also recognizing that the Bazelon Center is 50 years old, and we will be launching the next 50 years of work at this event. So people that you and your listeners will hear from at the event include Representative Cori Bush. She will be, we're giving her an award. She won't be in DC, so she'll be joining us virtually. Judy Woodruff will be there, Kristin Welker will be there, and then we have a great entertainer, Raoul Midon, and I'll tell your listeners, he's gonna perform at the beginning and at the end, which we're really excited about. In Washington, D.C., the event is being held at a place called The Showroom, and if you go to our website, www.bazon, B-A-Z-O-N, you can learn about the event and how to sign up.

Oh, and you can't miss it. I mean, I'm so excited that we get to be together, Holly. You know, I— at this ADA celebration that AAPD recently had, Judy Heumann and Karen Tamley were saying to me, and of course devastating that we don't have Judy, but they were saying how In the past, in the past, Judy said to me, Joyce, I know we're not having the AAPD gala this year. I know we're not going to do that. But, you know, and I know we're not going to have these other galas because, of course, due to COVID, you know, everything was locked down. And then even when we started to go out with our mask on. I mean, it still was extremely difficult to, you know, go. So last January when I was talking to Judy, she says to me, but you know, Joyce, when you are there, you get to say hi to other people. You get to talk to other people. And that is so special, and you'll be able to do that. At this event. How do you donate to that, Holly?

How to donate to the Bazelon Center?

Yes.

You can go right to our website, www.bazelon.org, and I'm going to spell out Bazelon again, B-A-Z-E-L-O-N dot org, and at the top of the website you'll see a donate button and you can donate right there. There's also information on the website for the event specifically, and there's sliders across the top. And there you will— you can purchase tickets for the event, and you can also sign up so that we'll send you the link if you're going to join us virtually. And a really interesting thing right now, we have the same number of people joining virtually as we do in person.

Wow, that is awesome. That is—

yeah, so really I'm excited about that. It will be a true hybrid event.

Well, one other thing I wanted to mention about Judy, who again was a close friend, but we were all devastated when we lost her, uh, in March. But Judy, when she was talking about this, also used to say it's good to support all the groups. You know, it's good, it's good to support from Bazelon to AAPD to NACDL, all of the groups, because we all have to be united and we all have to help one another. And that's why it doesn't matter if you have a mental health disability, you should go to this, uh, Bazelon gala because it's important to all of us, not to mention that 1 in 4 people live with a mental health disability. But something, Holly, people ask me frequently, especially when I'm trying to sponsor this gala or donate to this gala, is they say, okay, but how are they going to use those funds? You know, are those funds going to really help the people that need it, their constituents? What's going to happen? So, would you mind answering that question for our listeners?

Of course.

So, the funds that are raised at this event will help the Baselon Center expand what we do currently and also grow into new areas. I think it's really important to understand that the Baselon Center is a small organization. We have a budget less than $2 million, and we deliver a big punch. The things that the Bazelon Center accomplishes through its legal advocacy benefits people with mental health disabilities and disabilities, all disabilities across the United States. So, you know, in terms of our current work, people are very familiar that what we are working on is making sure that people with mental health disabilities can live, work, go to school in their communities with the supports and services they need to thrive just like everybody else. What your listeners might not know is that we're growing into new areas. We have a new legal director who I hope you'll have on your show, and she has some expertise in AI, and we've also been building our immigration portfolio. There are children who are stuck, and we want to get them out of detention centers and into living with families. And we only have, I mean, as of today, we have a new employee that came in yesterday, you know, we have 7 attorneys that are working on cases across the United States. And so, you know, every single dollar that comes in here matters. And, you know, we're really lean. And so we really use the money that comes in to advance our legal advocacy for people with mental health disabilities.

Yeah, and I know. And by the way, I will have her on. Oh, that is a hot topic right now, AI in the disability community, especially when it relates to employment and screening resumes and many other things. But I definitely will do that. Yeah. And you know what? It is amazing. Bazelon is small and yet they're like David with Goliath. I mean, they really pack a big punch. You know why? Because they're all so good. Everyone there is so good. Jill and Eve, how about you? Tell me, we'll start with you, Jill. What do you look forward to at that gala?

Oh, I'm so looking forward to the gala. So, as some of you know, I tore my Achilles tendon in July, so I have been in a hard non-weight-bearing cast since early July, but I will be in my boot at the event and really excited about— I think honestly I have learned the lessons of, or just like felt the importance of connecting and of seeing people and having that. So, and not taking it for granted. So, I am looking forward to that and the board coming together. You know, we have not been in person and Again, as I said, like a big part of the creation of the Center and how it evolved is through this network of people who really care and are devoted to these causes and have really worked so hard to make it possible to be where we are today and are continuing to work hard. You know, our allies are here today and just throughout the country. And so it's really, it's always been really important to bring people together, to have these conversations, to honor people who, are doing amazing work and who have amazing stories to tell. So, yeah, I'm very much looking forward to being there in person, although as Holly said, it's also virtual, so you don't have to be in D.C. to participate and certainly not to contribute.

Right. We could talk about that right now, actually. But first, Eve, how about you? What are you looking forward to?

Hmm. Well, like others, I'm looking forward to seeing friends and colleagues and our past awardees in person for the first time in all these years. So that's really nice. But I'm really looking forward to hearing more about what the Baselon Center is going to be doing for the next 50 years as we celebrate our 50th anniversary. And really, we have big plans. I can't wait to tell everybody about them. And then selfishly, I'm looking forward to seeing Raoul Midon. And Judy Woodruff and our other special guests. It's going to be a really excellent program, so I'm looking forward to that.

Yeah, me too. Now listen, Eve, people that are listening right now, oh no, I can't attend, but you and Holly and Jill, you're talking about people being able to attend virtually. So how is that going to work? How does that work?

That's right. So, there will be a link, and Holly can tell you the details about that.

Yeah, there's a link. You register just like you would register for tickets, and— but you sign up, and then we will send you a link the day of, and you just click on it, and you come. And the other great thing is it will be recorded. So, if you miss it, then you could watch it the next day or some other time. You know, I think a lot— we were on the show last year as well, so it's the same process as it was last year for those people that joined last year and will be joining again this year.

Oh yeah, and I mean, I am so excited to hear about how many people will be participating, and you should tell everyone you know. Uh, and you know what, if you can make a donation There is no, it's too small. Some people think, oh, I can't donate all this money. Yeah, you can donate even if it's $5. I don't care what it is, but everything matters on a donation. So, Eve, wow, Yale, talk about something big that happened. Would you talk about that? Explain that. When are you all here? This, I mean, this is really a big deal. Could you talk about it? And how Bazelon was involved.

Sure. So Yale did something that a number of colleges and universities are doing. They're forcing students with mental health disabilities to withdraw from the university. And the Bazelon Center was part of a lawsuit challenging that under the Americans with Disabilities Act. And they reached a settlement agreement where Yale agreed to change its policies. So now they won't force students to to withdraw from college. They'll allow students to take a medical leave of absence so they can get treatment and so they can recover and come back to college. And they'll provide accommodations for students with mental health disabilities, like they'll allow them to study part-time. It's not all or nothing. They'll allow students who— who take a leave of absence to have access to their healthcare, to their campus jobs, and to their other benefits during their medical leave. And they're gonna make it easier for students to return from medical leave. So they're not making it an all-or-nothing, if you have a mental health condition you're out, kind of discrimination. They're being more accommodating. They're also gonna provide reimbursement for fees and room and board depending on when the student withdraws or goes on leave of absence. So before, if you didn't make your leave of absence or withdrawal within 15 days of the start of the semester, you lost all your tuition. You had to pay the whole tuition for the whole semester, and you lost it all and never got any credit or anything. And that won't be the case anymore. So now it's okay, it's safe to come forward and admit that you have a mental health condition and get treatment for it. Your school won't be completely taken away from you. This is a big development and really needs to be modeled by every college and university around the country.

And, and Bazelon was involved with this, Eve?

Yes, Bazelon was lead lawyers in, in taking on this lawsuit.

Well, I want to tell you, when I hear you saying this, I'm thinking, I know years in the future they're going to be saying, did you know there was a time they would ask people with mental health conditions to withdraw from college. I mean, when you're saying that, I'm not kidding you, it sounds like way back in time. I mean, you know, that's right, that's terrible when you think about it. This would be like saying, okay, I have epilepsy. Yes, they're asking people with epilepsy to withdraw from college. I mean, when you were saying that, I was thinking, wow, and they think they did a big thing. I mean, yeah, that's how it should be. Civil rights, disability rights are civil rights. And with that—

Right.

And you can't treat a disability like it means you can't learn and that you're not a smart person. And that's what they were doing.

Amen to that. Oh, yeah. Good old stigma. How we have to deal with that. But right now, you know, we always have news on the half hour. Um, and we are ready, Perry Jude, for you with the news for today.

Thank you, Joyce. Um, exciting news out of Pennsylvania. Last week, The Arc of Pennsylvania released a report that will help the Pennsylvania Department of Health address disparities among people with disabilities. Joyce, this report was 2 years in the making and involved more than 400 partners statewide, including Disability Rights Pennsylvania. The Arc of Pennsylvania received funding from the PA Department of Health through the CDC's National Initiative to Address COVID-19 Health Disparities. The goal was to investigate, educate, and report on problems that people with disabilities in Pennsylvania faced while accessing information and help during that COVID-19 pandemic, the peak of that pandemic. The great news, Joyce, is the report focused on 10 core solutions, again, developed by 400 partners statewide. And what's cool about this report is when you go and click on this report, each solution comes with the video of a person with a disability speaking to the problem and the solution. So here are just some of them. One, of course, involve people with disabilities in policymaking and healthcare decisions. Two, keep any of the helpful policy changes that we learned and implemented during the COVID-19 peak of that pandemic Expand community-based healthcare, including telehealth services and mobile clinics. Provide disability-specific training for healthcare professionals. Designate people with disabilities as a medically underserved population. And so much more. So, we know advocacy matters. Advocates know that these barriers discussed in this report didn't just happen magically during the COVID-19 pandemic. These are barriers that we have always faced and they have always existed. So it's important that advocates across the country look at this report, maybe even use these solutions to address healthcare disparities in our own communities. Joyce Bender, the report is in English, Spanish, and Chinese. If you want to see the report and find all of the information that I've talked about today, go to disabilityrightsPA.org. That's disabilityrightsPA.org. It's really easy to find today's Advocacy Matters segment. You scroll down to the middle of our homepage. There you'll find today's Advocacy Matters segment and the Arc's report and all of the information we reviewed today. One more time, Joyce, it's disabilityrightspa.org.

Wow, that is really great information, Perry. Uh, it's great that listeners can go and get that. Perry is the CEO of Pennsylvania Disability Rights of Pennsylvania, and she is a superstar, and I'm honored to be her friend and on the board. But that is great news, Perry. We'll keep following up with you on that.

Thanks, Joyce. Take care and good luck to Bazelon on your anniversary celebration. I'll be there virtually.

All right, there we go. Yes, that is awesome. So I want to ask you a question, Jill. Your grandfather, you know how Eve was saying about the next 50 years, uh, that we're going to talk about the next 50 years of Baselon's goals or programs or mission. Your grandfather, what do you think his dream would be for the future of Baselon?

Well, again, I think he would be just so proud of the work that is going on and feel really affirmed by the direction of these past 50 years. And I think something that's really exciting is we do have a new legal director, and so it's amazing to see, you know, such a— like, this is seamless transition, and everyone's still working towards the mission of the organization. And yeah, so I think he would be really excited to see the success of the Yale decision and understand that the work that we are doing is both driving forward what he believed in and fought for, and then also doing it in a way that gets really good attention and helps the public understand why these issues are so important. And I think that's what this case did. So, yeah, I think his dream would be to continue for the organization to continue to have the resources it needs to be as effective as it is. And as Holly said, it is a very lean organization. You know, I think as, you know, when you think about nonprofits, you would really understand where every single dollar is going, and that is to, you know, provide the resources for really some of the best legal minds. In these issues. And as Holly said and mentioned, you know, we are moving forward, uh, with AI, thinking about going to San Francisco and, um, taking a pioneering role in that, um, area. So there's lots of work to be done. We know that we almost have to, you know, be selective in what we do, just given how lean we are. And so I think his dream would be to have the resources we need to take on, uh, these really important cases and issues.

Yeah, I, I mean, that is so, so awesome thinking about all this. Uh, Eve, a question I have: we want this also include like people who are homeless, because a lot of people who are homeless also have mental health disabilities, or as you know are treated terribly by police or by government officials, what do you think will be even more involved with working with the homeless?

I expect we will because they, they encounter so many of the systems that the Bazelon Center works on. So we're already working in California on interactions, how the police end up institutionalizing people with mental illness who are homeless, and they end up in incarceration instead of in treatment. And we deal with permanent supportive housing and the need for that among homeless people with serious mental illnesses, and how the Housing First model is really the only way that successfully works for people with mental illness to remain on— to be housed and to get the treatment and services that they need. So I think that is a big issue that the Bazelon Center is dealing with and in, in a lot of contexts, not just the criminal justice system, but also housing services and mental health treatment services and institutionalization, all really affect and come to a point in people who are homeless.

Yes, and I am so glad we're going to be doing that. I'm on the board of the Homeless Children Education Fund, and sometimes what people forget is that when a person goes from home to home, like I lived with Grandma, now I live with my aunt, you know, they're homeless. But a lot of young people with mental health disabilities, if the police or whomever do not know how to interact and they seemingly strike out at that person, there you go. Juvenile court, next thing you know, it is that school-to-prison pipeline. So, I really think it is important that we work in these areas. And Holly, you mentioned about working with children that have been detained due to this whole situation with immigrants. Is that something that you feel passionate about?

I do. I spent my career before Bazelon working in education, and we had a lot of— worked in public schools in Pittsburgh, actually, and also here in D.C. and at the Department of Education, and just the importance of children being, you know, with families and in schools so that they can learn and thrive, and there's not a lot of learning anything healthy going on in there. So we need to do what we can to get the children with families, hopefully their own family, as soon as possible.

And people listening right now, as you're hearing all of these wonderful and yet sometimes heartbreaking issues that we're working on, Paul— Holly, what is the website What's the website again for Bazelon?

The website for Bazelon is www.bazelon.org. And I'm going to spell it. www.bazelon.org.

Okay. If you go there, you can see all the great things we're doing, but you also can read about this 50th anniversary. And if you're listening right now, how awesome, because you can. Join us that evening on a virtual basis. Well, right now it's time for What's Going On at Bender. Scott, are you with us?

I sure am, Joyce.

Hi, Scott Hammerstrom, how are you?

Joyce, I am doing fantastic. It's a beautiful day today.

Yes, it is. And Scott, uh, is the person that is the leader and runs the Bender Leadership Academy. So, Scott, what do you have for us today?

Well, thank you so much. What a great show, and I'm so excited to be on. And, you know, it is October, or it's coming up on October, that's when our classes start. You know, classes are starting in the high schools now, and our Bender Leadership Academy programs, they'll be starting in October, November. And then with, in November, you know, our student leaders, our advanced student leader classes, and all of our classes in our curriculum, we do talk about mental health because it is so, so important, especially for, for young people, young people with disabilities. And, you know, Joyce Bender, you know, you are in these classes. A lot of our students have been bullied. You can tell there is, a lot of them do have mental health disabilities. They have skyrocketed since COVID So we have incorporated a lot of mental health fitness training into our curriculum. So we break it down into like 3 different areas. We have a mental fitness training where we teach our students to become empowered to talk about mental health. We talk about healthy mind habits. So feeling all your emotions, naming your emotions, validating yourself. We talk about learning and identifying to understand your emotions and what they tell us, and explore where thoughts come from and how to process them in a healthy way. So that is one part of the curriculum that we do is teaching mental fitness training. But we also teach mental health advocacy and understanding what it means to become an advocate, especially for yourself, and learn about the civil rights issues for people with mental health disabilities, and explore actions that youth advocates can take to bring about change to address the stigma of mental health. And the last part of our thing in our curriculum, but also it's a campaign, we call it the Not Ashamed Campaign where we are trying to reduce that stigma around mental health disabilities. And we are asking everybody to do a video saying, "I am Scott Hammerstrom and I have a mental health disability and I am not ashamed." Put it on your phone, send it in to us, and we want to get that out there on social media so we can reduce that stigma about people with mental health disabilities.

Right. And as you know, Scott, we have had several, uh, sadly, either self-harm or attempted suicide, and a lot of times attempted suicide, it is a result of horrific bullying. And that is why Scott, have we not seen tremendous changes through this program?

Absolutely. It is amazing because we teach self-confidence as well. And, you know, we have students from different school districts participating in the same class, and you can see that they got each other's back. They are in a community like they are not alone. And, you know, and one of the things that, Joyce Bender, you tell all of our students is 'You are awesome.' It just builds up their self-esteem, their confidence, and we want to prevent that. We don't ever want to see anybody suffer, especially with somebody with a mental health disability. So yeah, definitely improvements with the people who attend these classes.

It's not ashamed. I mean, we have people from all walks, you know, congresspeople, senators, of course, high school students and young people, disability rights leaders, people like a Valerie Jarrett or an NFL star or a country Grammy-nominated country star. But even if you don't have a mental health disability, if you could just go to benderleadership.org and make that small video. It takes what, 30 seconds, Scott?

Yeah, 15 to 30 second video. You can be an ally too, even if you don't have a mental health disability, you could still do a video supporting somebody who has a mental health disability.

Yeah, that's right, that's what, that's right, that was the point I was going to make. Uh, and please do it, please. And that brings me to why I came up with this hashtag, #NotAshamed. So one day I called Eve Hill. I said, Eve, we have this mental health initiative. We're working with high school students with disabilities. But, you know, I want some type of, you know, national campaign. I'm trying to focus on something. And she said, well, you know, It is shame because there are young people that do not even tell their parents. They know something is wrong. They know something is different. And so, there we go. Eve Hill, #NotAshamed. And she is mentioned right on the Bender Leadership Academy. And Eve, thank you. You never knew that one thing would impact so many lives. So, Eve, Jill, and Holly, you know my biggest problem is employment. So, finding employment for people with disabilities. And I must say, mental health disabilities, it is really hard to get employment. So, we'll start with you, Holly. What do you think? What are some of the barriers and how do you think we could overcome them so people with mental health disabilities do gain employment?

You know, Eve, I think that Joyce Bender is that there— I'm just going to tell a story right now because yes, there are a lot of barriers, but then there's also simple things that can make employment for people with disabilities a lot easier, and I think your listeners know that I have a brother who is 4 years younger than me and lives in Washington, lives independently, and he has a job in a coffee shop in Georgetown. And he loves to talk, and he is totally fine with me sharing any stories. And it is— he wants to get to work on time, and it's hot It's hot, hot here in the summer, and so he did not want to arrive at work sweaty. And Georgetown doesn't have a Metro, and so anyway, so I suggested that he take a Lyft or an Uber. And he wasn't doing it, and I didn't know why. And then, you know, I found out that like a barrier for him was using the app. And so making the app, teaching him how to use it, setting it up, having him practice made it— he can use his voice now— made him able to get to work on time in a way that he felt comfortable. And so I do think it was a small example of, you know, having some— having an issue that was a barrier, having somebody who can help supported employment, and whether that's actual, you know, a formal supported employment or having someone who supports you in your employment made it a lot easier. And so I do think that there are large systemic issues and, you know, Eve can talk about that, but from a very personal personal and in a family, I think having strong communication and doing some simple things can make employment a lot easier. So that's my story for today.

That is a great example because if you had not been involved and he had to use Uber or Lyft, guess what? He would have lost his job. Because he wouldn't have got there because he didn't know how to use this. So simple, that accommodation, you know, Holly showing her brother how to do this. So simple. But, you know, sometimes you just have to take time and think about it because I call everyone that doesn't have a disability the temporarily able-bodied. Because you could join my group at any time, and I hope that isn't what it would take for you to get it, to wake up and see what's going on. How about you, Eve? What do you think?

Yeah, the biggest, the biggest thing we have to face is that— is these negative attitudes that so much of society has towards people with mental health conditions, and we as a society have to get over that stigma or discrimination or prejudice we have towards people with mental health conditions. We have to start treating mental illness just like any other medical condition or disability, where you would just accommodate it and not think it defined the whole person, and stop treating it as a source of shame. And then we have to recognize that we have these attitudes and that they're wrong and that we're not allowed to act on them. Acting on them is discrimination. It's illegal and it's wrong. I think those are the key pieces, and that's how Vazelon contributes to eliminating that stigma by forcing people to stop acting on their incorrect negative attitudes towards mental health conditions.

And boy, it is deep-seated and long ago. So much work. That's right. We are making progress. We are making progress. Moving forward. But we've got to get to that employment. We've got to get to that breaking down the stigma. How about you, Jill? What do you think?

Yeah, I mean, you've just said it much more eloquently, but that's what I was going to say too, is that what the work that Bazelon Center does is to, yes, is to help people understand, break down the stigma, take cases that are going to help the public understand, you know, what the situation is and why this work is so important. So, yeah, I would say, you know, that is the work that we're doing. And, like, you know, and the more resources we have, the greater an impact we can have in this area.

Yeah. And you know what? I didn't think about this, but if someone is listening to the show and they know of some egregious behavior, discriminatory, toward a person with a mental health disability, what should they do, Eve? How would they, how would they get in touch with you? Would Bazelon be the right group to get in touch with? What would you advise them to do?

Well, it's not always the need— a need for a lawyer right away. You want to sort of challenge people and educate them about what they're doing and how they're wrong on their basic understanding. But then you could also contact the Bazelon Center. And there are other organizations. There's a protection and advocacy organization in each state, and those are funded by the federal government. But check out the website to see how to reach the Bazelon Center. We have a lot of resources and a lot of information for folks.

And you have a lot of resources for reading material because I've been out there, and you know, there's a wealth of knowledge out there. Well, Eve, do you have any last message here for our listeners?

I think my last message is join us at the event on October 12th. We're going to have a great time, and we'd love to see you all there. Whether in live, in person, or virtually.

How about you, Jill?

Yes, exactly. We really hope to see you there. We're looking forward to it. And if you can't be there in person, you can still join us virtually and support the organization online. Oh, and also, I think we mentioned, but we are having a silent auction too, so that's another way to get involved.

Oh, that— yeah, that is right. I forgot about that also. How about you, Holly?

I'm just going to echo what everybody else said. Um, see you on October 12th. Thank you so much, Joyce, for having us. We're always grateful to be here.

Well, I'm grateful to be on the board, and I will look forward to seeing you in person. And you know, I've been different places, and people know me that don't know me when they hear me talk because of this radio show. So I hope that I will be seeing you because I will be there at that gala that will be fantastic. So we end every show with a quote. So here is the quote for today: If we were not so set on punishing the offender for the sake of punishment, if we did not justify —this practice by reference to its deterrent effort, we could understand that rehabilitation lies at the spiritual heart of any vital moral system, said Judge David Bacelon. This is Joyce Bender, America's Voice, where disability matters at voiceamerica.com. Talk to everyone next week, and you will hear Lachi next week on my radio show. In the words of Mary Brooker, remember, when you leave the house today, choose joy.

Voice America would like to thank you for Thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific time and 2 PM Eastern time for another installment of Disability Matters right here on the Voice America variety channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.