Board Member, Former Chair of NCD, Neil Romano

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Hello everyone in the United States and around the world. I hope you are all having a great day. And what a wonderful day it is as we continue to march forward with getting vaccines against this horrible, horrible pandemic and what we've gone through. I must say, I know we have listeners in Brazil and know this, we're thinking about you and praying for you. I know it's terrible what you're going through there. You know what I always say, when you have a disability, We are all in this together when you have a disability. Because like me, I'm living with epilepsy. You all know Bender Consulting Services focuses on employment for people with disabilities, but that all started as a result of my accident and me having epilepsy. Well, no matter where you live in the world, a seizure is a seizure. So thank you again, China. You know, you have this big listening audience. Thank you so much, every country, even if it's one person in Iceland. Thank you so much. You're helping me get the news out of quality of life for people living with disabilities around the world. So speaking of around the world, a special shout out to Richard Roberts, my great friend at the embassy Embassy and with the State Department in Okinawa. Also to Gang Young from South Korea, to all of my friends at the Embassy in Indonesia, then you mean in Kazakhstan, and now I have my new friend Cheryl Harris in Tunisia where I did a virtual presentation. Love you all, keep fighting the fight, and Yoshiko Dart, Never forget you on any show. You know, I couldn't do all this. I was telling our guests before we started that this show has been on for 18 years, and for the past 4 years, the sponsor of this show has been Highmark as the lead sponsor. Now, we've also had other sponsors— Wells Fargo, um, People's Natural Gas, AudioEye. But do you know the former CEO of People's, who's now the chair of a new Wattsell organization company in Pittsburgh, Morgan O'Brien? Do you know he's an individual contributor to this show? Is that amazing? He is such an awesome person. So thank you to everyone. And you know what this show is about? Education. And you know what? I was talking to Marcy Roth, the CEO of WID, and Terry Hartman, who works in the entertainment field for people with disabilities, and they are going to come up with a way that we can get these shows out there Through education, we're going to do something so that people can hear our history. That, you know what I mean? You go out to someone and say, oh, do you know who Harriet Tubman is? Of course I know who Harriet Tubman is. Do you know who Justin Dart is? No. We're going to change that. That was my whole purpose with this show, and this would be a guest that we would put in that archive, that education, uh, system for people to hear, because not only is he a long-term disability rights advocate and leader, he was an appointee during the Bush administration in the Department of Labor, which we'll talk about in a little bit. He also did work in the Reagan administration. See, he's done so many things, but I'm going to tell you He is an absolutely wonderful person. Uh, he really is, and I've known him a long time, and he's always there when I've needed him. Uh, and welcome to the show, Mr. Neil Romano, the president of the Romano Group and former Assistant Secretary of Labor of the Office of Disability Employment Policy. Neil, welcome.

Well, thank you very much, Joyce, for that lovely introduction and welcome. It's always a matter of great pride to be able to speak with you, and you certainly belong in the pantheon of people who have done a great deal for people with disabilities, but more important than that, you're still doing it. So I thank you and I appreciate the opportunity to be with you today, Joyce.

Well, symbotica, because you're doing the same thing. But Neil, we have listeners, as you heard, around the world. This man has worked with the different presidents of the United States, but I want you first to tell everyone, Neil, what and how did you first become involved in the disability community as an advocate?

You know, Joyce, that's an interesting question. I get asked that a lot, but it really is like— it's like the disability community, uh, claimed me, uh, my entire life, beginning with the fact that I come from a very religious background that believes that everybody's equal, everybody's entitled to the rights, uh, you know, God-given rights. So there was an automatic feeling about that in my life, that everyone was equal. But I go all the way back to thinking about my dad. My dad was a— had a small print shop in Brooklyn, for instance, and the 3 delivery people who worked for him all had cerebral palsy. And I never heard him one time talk about them in any way but as great employees. And his employees, the people that worked hard, you'd go downstairs and all of a sudden you'd go see them and you'd realize they were people with a disability. My father's closest friend his entire life was a gentleman by the name of Ralph Montanus, who was a reverend who was completely blind at birth. And so around my house was a man who was a, you know, very accomplished gentleman, college educated, ran a huge ministry around the world, and we never talked about the fact that, you know, he was blind. We got to recognize very early on that people with disabilities had, you know, remarkable skills on their own. And then for the bulk of my life at home, I lived with a cousin who lived with us who had Down syndrome, and unfortunately, my brother who recently passed was a Vietnam veteran who was a quadriplegic from the war. So, I've always been in a way, whether it was advocating for my brother for a better wheelchair, or advocating on behalf of my cousin or anything like that, it has always been part of my DNA to look at people that way. You may note, Joyce, you're probably laughing over there, that I left out the fact that I'm a person with very serious dyslexia. And I always tell the story that in high school, they wouldn't even give me the SATs because they said it would hurt my feelings, it would embarrass me, I wouldn't recover from the damage it would do to me. And 4 years after I graduated high school, I graduated NYU Phi Beta Kappa, number 2 at the university. So I also understood early on that people make decisions about people based upon what they believe as opposed to what the truth is for that person and what that person can do. So, advocacy really was natural for me because I have been advocating my whole life.

Wow. You know what? It is amazing how often I hear these stories. Just a little bit— like an hour ago, I am talking to this fantastic woman Laura, who tells me about her daughter who loved ice skating and wanted to be involved long-term in the Olympics. And she was told by someone, because of her disability, her hearing disability, she was told, well, why don't you do Special Olympics. It would be too hard for you. Ah, that's 11 years ago. I mean, you know, when you hear these stories, I'm telling you, it's like it's constant thing of lowering the bar, you know. Well, boy, were they way off wrong about you there, Neil.

Well, you know, I have to tell you, I've often said they wanted to send me to a technical school to become a baker. And I have to tell you, I would have been a darn good baker. As a matter of fact, you'd probably be delivering rolls and stuff to my, you know, to bakeries with my name on it all over the country. But the fact of the matter is, I think one of the things that's helped me, Joyce, is that I've never ascribed malevolence to people who do that. I ascribe the fact that they just don't know. But as they say, you just don't know the first few times. After that, then you really have to check yourself and make a decision. How are you really looking at people? All people, not just people with disabilities, all people. Are you meeting where they are, or are you trying to meet them where you are and force them into your mold? So that becomes a, that becomes a very, very important part of everything I do, everything I think every day. Is meeting people where they are and recognizing them for what they can do as opposed to marginalizing them for what they may not be able to do.

Yeah, right, so true. Well, as I mentioned how you've worked with different presidents, and during the Reagan administration, which was the Just Say No campaign, but you also worked, and I bet a lot of people don't know this, On America Responds to AIDS. Could you take a minute and talk about that time, you know, what it was like during that time and the work you did?

Well, frankly, that was really kind of a watershed moment in my life because one of the things that happened during that period was that I had the honor of working with then Surgeon General C. Everett Koop. And he certainly was a mentor who said, Neil, Never care about who the person is. Don't care about their gender. Don't care about their race. Don't care about their sexuality. Don't care about anything. Care about their life. Care about giving the best quality of life. And you know, it's really kind of funny because you would figure coming out of administration, you know, that may have been somewhat more conservative, etc., etc., you'd come out and be somewhat more conservative when quite frankly, you know, I learned even more about my responsibilities. It was a it was a hectic time. I was the Director of Communications at the White House Office of Drug Abuse and AIDS, as it turned out. So to say I had a couple of things on my plate every day was amazing. But I was also amazed by the American spirit of people, you know, even under conditions that at that time, you know, the '80s, I mean, come on, sexuality was still, you know, wow, be careful what you say. That I was working with people who were just absolutely would not have a conversation about anything but finding ways to keep folks alive regardless of who they were. And how much that really, that really meant to me going forward in my life, understanding that it's, you know, it's the goal, it's the responsibility of a person. Sierra Coop used to say, you know, it's the responsibility of a person to give a person a lifetime where they can find who they are. And, you know, I don't know that when I first worked with him I was smart enough to understand that or old enough, but now I understand it and now I can see how that time, that administration, working with President Reagan and Dr. Koop, how that's been— wound up being baked into my DNA about how we handle policy and people in Washington.

Yeah. That great advice you got, wow, that is what it's all about, Neil. But I met you during the President George H.W. Bush administration where you served in the very prestigious role of Assistant Secretary of the Office of Disability Employment Policy. And before you share with us some of your accomplishments, during that time. I just want to say you really loved that job. I mean, you, you took that seriously. I can't remember— I remember you were like overjoyed in that position. You really were. You were. You really— you didn't take it just as, oh, I'm this. I mean, you really took it seriously. And I know that it meant a lot to you. So I thought you could share with our listeners some, you know, what that was like for you, some of your accomplishments during that time that you were— again, he was the Assistant Secretary of the Office of Disability Employment Policy that is part of the U.S. Department of Labor. So go ahead, Neil.

Well, Joyce Bender, that has to come with a story that I have to start out with that's really very funny, and it has everything to do with disability. So, come on, I'm an Italian kid from Brooklyn, New York, okay? I come from a blue-collar cloth and pretty normal background, public school education, et cetera, et cetera. And I remember getting called and I remember Secretary Chow saying, "The President would like to nominate you for," et cetera, et cetera, and you get all that. And you know, the first thing is I always tell people, what's the first thing that a good Italian boy does? I picked up the phone and called my mother. I said, "Mom, the President has just asked me to be the Assistant Secretary of Labor." My mother became completely silent, Joyce, I mean stone silent. I thought literally that I had killed her or something. You know, it's one of those funny moments. I said, Mom, are you okay? She said, yeah, I'm okay. I said, what's the matter, Ma? He says, does the president have any idea that you can't spell? Oh my God, because of my dyslexia. And I always took that as the, as the quintessential lesson of this is how people, even people who love you dearly view you. They view you through this disability lens. And it's really funny because I would go into— when I first went into ODEP, I had people at ODEP in the office there, they would speak to me slowly as if because I had dyslexia I needed to be spoken to slowly. And I would have to say to them, hey guys, I'm from Brooklyn, I can speak 3 times faster than all of you combined, so let's not stand on ceremony. But it was— you hit the nail on the head. I can't not say that. I loved my time at ODEP. As a matter of fact, I made a personal pledge to both the President and the Secretary of Labor at the time that even though I had a little over a year, that I was going to put in in excess of 2 years of time. So I was putting in 16, 20-hour days with absolute joy. We got to do some things that really counted. For instance, we finally got to work on and get the final things for the Bureau of Labor Statistics to count people with disabilities in the workforce. You know, Joyce, you and I both know that if you don't count, you don't count. And that's the way it is. But for years, we never knew what the labor statistics were for people with disabilities. It simply wasn't important. So getting to do that along with Secretary Chao was, you know, a very, very significant accomplishment because it then gave us the basis from which we could go off and speak to businesses and speak to America about the fact that people with disabilities are 2 times more likely to be unemployed and live in poverty than any other marginalized population in America, and that was startling information at the time. I also got to work— I was the first person to give speeches on 508, about working on that. We wrote the first pieces that, you know, helped get people with this— helped get businesses to consider people with disabilities. And then one of the other things, there's a series of things that we got to do. One of the others was that we worked on a program where we started speaking to the American people through TV PSAs, through online meetings and things like that, with the point that the only way we're going to get more people with disabilities hired is when people see that other companies hire them and that it's not a charity hire, but it is a hire that is an effective hire that is good for the bottom line of the corporation. That was what was important. So we worked pretty hard on that, and I'm proud to say that those efforts are still in place today. But the single most important thing that I think happened for me at ODEP that was important— I always believe, as I know you do too, Joyce Bender, in a servant leadership kind of feeling, and I felt the most important thing I could leave behind at ODEP, even in my short period of time, was more people who believed what we believed. More people who believed, you know, outside of ODEP, throughout the country, in corporations, who believed in the value of people with disabilities in the workplace. And I am inordinately proud of— just recently I had a phone call from a business out in Seattle who said, "I heard you speak 15 years ago." and it completely changed the way we do our business. So it's not what I accomplished, it's what the people that we have helped encourage accomplish. Because one person is one person, but you know, um, you, you know the, uh, you know the value I think of disciples.

Absolutely. Yes, I do know that. Well, you know what, I mean, you did do so many things, so many great things, and I hope Neil, that this 508 will continue to move forward?

Well, you know, we will see. We've had, you know, there's different administrations that take a different look at the way they want to administer things, but I can't see under any condition that anyone would not want to continue working in that regard because we understand very, very clearly that that is, you know, essential in the field of employment. And, you know, I'm speaking to the master, but, you know, it's a radio show, so we'll make believe that Joyce doesn't know. But in employment, we understand— some of these things you taught me, so if I'm just saying it again, just relax. We understand very clearly that leadership at the top is terribly, terribly important. We understand that demonstrating that a lot of the things, and this is what we worked on at ODEP, a lot of the things and the misunderstandings that people with, have about people with disabilities in many, many cases prevents them from getting work. As you probably remember, one of my mantras when I was the Assistant Secretary, and I still talk about it a great deal, is I really don't like the word accommodation when talking about people with disabilities in the workplace. I always say, hey, if you're going to come over to my house and you don't like mushrooms, I'll accommodate you. I won't make a mushroom sauce, okay? That's fine. But if you pick up the phone or you come into my office and you say, I need a screen reader, and you say to me, I need the screen reader, what are you saying to me? As an employee with a disability. I want to give you a hard time. I want you to pay $200, $300 for a screen reader. I'm saying I want to do my work better. I want to be able to, to function at the level you paid me for. I want to be the best I can be because I don't necessarily want to be stuck here forever. I might want to advance. From my point of view, I mean, throughout my history, I owned an advertising company. There's someone who I walked into any new piece of software that's going to help me generate, you know, better video or better flat art or whatever, I didn't walk around saying, "Well, it's too expensive," because you understand the opposite end, and it's going to generate revenue. That's the point. People with disabilities who are given what I call opportunity enhancements, as opposed to accommodations, who ask for opportunity enhancement, It only means that they want to do more. And as I say to businesses all the time, you want to hire someone to give you 30% of their total productivity? Or do you want someone to want to fight to be able to give you 100% of who they are? I'd rather have that employee any day of the week. So things like that are misunderstandings. There's a synaptic misunderstanding between social science sometimes and business. But once you make that jump between those two things and people come to understand clearly that you're really speaking the same language, it suddenly starts making things work a lot better. And I think we worked very, very hard to try and get that done at ODEP and after that too.

Well, it is just, you know, it's just such a hard thing to understand, Neil, that it is the 30— this year, 31st anniversary of the signing of the ADA, and that we are still having to talk about this. You know what I mean? But I told Neil I wanted him to tell this story, and then I am going to talk about unemployment. I will never forget when I heard Neil tell this story, and why he told this story is we were talking about how how it takes time, you know, to make things happen in history, but that I, when I grew up, I can remember when they were starting to hire women and when I would hear people say, you know what she's going to do? She's going to take a man's job that needs to provide for his family. I can remember hearing I can't. But Neil, tell the story you told me when you were with the Congresswoman.

Yeah, you know, it was back in the mid-'70s. I was at New York University, as I mentioned, and I won a major scholarship which placed me for a year into a member of Congress's office. And the closest member of Congress to my, to NYU was Congresswoman Bella Abzug at the time. Now, if anyone can reach back into Congresswoman Bella Abzug, she was extraordinary liberal, very, very loud, you know, all of those things that would seem anathema to a person who would go on to work for Ronald Reagan. But she was an absolute absolute joy to work with. I mean, I remember my first meeting with her, her sitting with me and saying, you know, Neil, only work on things that your heart— only work on things that your heart believes in, because then I know I'll get great work out of you. And we had a wonderful relationship. Well, as it turned out, I used to accompany her to some events, and I remember accompanying her to a big corporate event in Manhattan. And the premise of the entire event was they were giving a prize to a major American corporation for hiring a mid-level manager who was a woman. And people showed up for this and people cheered. And I've often said, you know, I see the same thing happening in this village. We have people giving prizes to organizations that are doing this same hard work. But it is part of— it's a step. It's a step, okay. I wish those steps were more of a run. I wish, you know, I wish we could have a sprinter taking those steps for people with disability. But looking at, you know, looking at the sum and substance of history and as it goes, the amount of change from '75, let's from that day to now is dynamic.

Are we finished?

No, we're not finished. Are we finished in other communities? No, hardly. We're not finished. Are we finished in the disability community? Well, I think we've taken the first few steps. I have businesses all the time say to me, "What more do you want? You know, every time I see you, you're pushing me to do something else. You're pushing for more. You're pushing for more people people with disabilities in the workplace, you're pushing for more. And I say the same thing all the time. I want for people with disabilities exactly what you want for your family, for your friends, for your children, and for those you care and love. Because anything less is frankly less. So, you know, it's a matter of continuing to move forward. Part of that for me was always the understanding, working for the Congresswoman, understanding that you could have huge differences, huge differences with another person, but you cannot have huge differences about things like the fundamental rights of a human being. You can't have differences about that. Either you believe it or you don't. I'm a person who has spent a good deal of the last 20 years saying to people, You know, I really love the Declaration of Independence. As a matter of fact, when I got sworn in as— for the chairmanship of NCD, I asked and was granted one of the greatest honors of my life, to be sworn in in front of the Constitution and Declaration. It means a lot to me because I firmly believe that all men are created equal and they're endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights. Rights, and among them are life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. And whereas I love the Constitution, a lot of the Constitution, there's nothing more profound or important to who we are as Americans or who we should be as human beings than that simple line.

Isn't that the truth? So true, Neil. Well, hey everyone, it's time for our news break. You know, every half hour at the half on the show We have our Advocacy Matters newsbreak with Perry Jude Radesik, the CEO of Disability Rights PA, and a person that's been with me now for a couple years, uh, bringing timely information so you'll know what's going on. Perry, are you with us?

Joyce, I am, and thanks for having me.

Of course. So what news do you have for us today, Perri?

Well, Joyce, I want to talk to your listeners about how we can all actively work to stop the hate and hate crimes and violence being committed against Asian Americans. I think we all watched in horror a couple of weeks ago when 8 people, including 6 Asian women, were gunned down in a horrific act of violence in the Atlanta metro area. This violence is the kind of violence that spreads fear and an intimidation in our communities. And the increase in hate against Asian Americans has been linked to the start of the pandemic, as COVID-19 was labeled by some in xenophobic terms. And we have some statistics to share. According to the Stop Asian American Pacific Islander Hate Reporting Center, nearly 3,800 incidents of anti-Asian hate have been self-reported since the start of the pandemic. That's a lot. So, on Thursday, March 18th, the U.S. House of Representatives, the Committee on Judiciary, they have a subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights, and Civil Liberties, held a hearing on discrimination and violence against Asian Americans. So, if you go to disabilityrightspa.org and you find the Advocacy Matters segment for today, you'll get a link to the hearing and the record that was established on discrimination and violence against Asian Americans. And you go to disabilityrightspa.org. So advocacy matters. We know that. And as advocates and leaders in the disability community, we have to understand the intersection of race and disability and speak out against anti-Asian hate, violence, discrimination, and intimidation. We cannot stand by silently when one part of our disability community is increasingly the target of hate. So what can we do? We can caution the news media, police, and prosecutors against the tendency to blame mental illness for xenophobia and white supremacy. Joyce, racism is not a mental illness.

Uh-huh. Right. Yes.

Policy makers and law enforcement have to aggressively combat Asian hate and discrimination. We have to have resources for prosecutors and district attorneys to actively investigate and prosecute hate crimes. And we have a website on disabilityrightsPA.org to learn more about Stop Asian Hate and a virtual National Day of Action and Healing. That took place on Friday. So go to advocacy matters segment at disabilityrightspa.org and get all of this important information on how you can help stop Asian hate crimes.

Ah, so important, because just as you said, it doesn't matter what race you are, what gender you are, you still can be living with a disability, and that is where the The intersectionality comes through for our Asian brothers and sisters. And I will tell you, you know, people are just going to have to put this hate down. I know that, you know, it sounds like a dream, and to a degree it probably is, but we've got to get together. That's one key thing is to communicate and be together. Perry Jude, thank you so much for that timely information, and we will look forward to talking to you next week.

Thank you, Joyce Bender, for the opportunity.

Bye-bye. Bye-bye. You know, uh, Neil, when she told that story, I remember at the beginning of the pandemic when it was shutdown, showing this woman, and she's Asian background, with CNN, and she's, uh, at a beach, and they're talking about how you know, no one was there and you're not supposed to be there. And this one young guy, white, runs past and yells out to her, "Why don't you go home? You caused the problem." I still remember that.

And by the way, people grow— people grow for— I'm sorry, simple people grow up for simple answers that simply aren't true. And basically, it's It's, you know, it's just frankly, it's disgusting. It's disgusting at any level. And, and we, we see it, you know, we see it with people with disabilities. We see it everywhere. And it's just something that's unacceptable. And, you know, if I can go back to where we finished off last time, if people actually believed that everybody was created the same, I mean, it would have— there would be a different feeling about how you treat the person next to you if you felt responsible for them, as opposed to feeling that they were— you were to be at odds with them. So things like this are just absolutely reprehensible and unacceptable, uh, just across the board in the character of who we are as people and who we should be.

I think you made the most profound example when you said We can be in America and not agree. You know, we have the Democrats, we have the Republicans, so there are issues that we are— that people are not going to agree on, whether it's spending or the military or whatever. But that does not include human rights. I thought that was so good when you said that, uh, Neil. I thought, wow, that's so true. That's such a profound profound statement, and I will remember that you said that, because clearly, it's not that you say, "Oh, I'm a Democrat, so human rights, that's not important to me," or, "I'm a Republican, that's not important to me." That is one thing that is not political. It's just the way it should be. So, that was a great statement. And Neil, I do want to talk a little bit about COVID but before I do that, we haven't talked yet enough about NCD. And you were the chair of the board, and I had the new chair on my radio show also. And the first thing, one of the first things he said is, when is Neil going to be on? So, Neil, why don't you tell everyone what NCD is? Is, because just as you said, you know, you were appointed the chair, and those are appoint— that's appointee positions. So why don't you talk, explain to everyone what that is?

Well, the National Council on Disability, Joyce, is, um, is an independent federal agency that is responsible to look at all things disability in and out of the government and see how we We can do better. I mean, that truly—NCD played a pivotal role during COVID because we discovered things and found out things about the treatment of people with disabilities during COVID But NCD goes way back, and one of the things—well, not way back, some 30-some years—but what people don't realize is that NCD actually wrote, and very proud to have been the chair, not then, I'm proud to be a chair of an organization that can say that we wrote the first draft of the ADA. So, our responsibility by Congress, we are an independent federal agency. We are 9 people that are picked by both the President and the Congress. It is totally bipartisan. We have the opportunity to look at things and say, okay, Department of Transportation, you're, you know, you're looking at the whole issue of autonomous vehicles, just to give you an example. Well, what are we doing with autonomous vehicles as it relates to people with limited vision, or how is that going to work for people with intellectual disabilities? Are we going to be baking in the things that are going to make life better for people with disabilities? We do things like look at, you know, look at laws. We have— NCD during my tenure has pounded on an ancient 84-year-old piece of the Fair Labor Standards Act called Subsection 14, which, believe it or not, your audience is going to be stunned by this, which allows people with disabilities to be paid less than the minimum wage. Well, I have to tell you, in an age now when we realize that, you know, even the minimum wage we have right now is not enough to sustain people, imagine being a person with a disability and making less than minimum wage, and sometimes, and then sometimes literally, literally pennies on the dollar for work that needs to be done, for real work So at NCD, we've been really pounding on that, working with the Department of Labor, working with Congress. Congress now has a piece of legislation about eliminating that loophole in the Fair Labor Standards Act. So NCD is kind of a watchdog. We watch everything that's going on in the federal government. We get a huge amount of input from outside. We have quarterly meetings, and those quarterly meetings are always open to the public. People can come, they can listen, and any person who's there can give 3 minutes of their opinion on anything. They just register and say, I want to talk 3 minutes about this issue. It doesn't have to be an issue we're talking about. Quite frankly, oftentimes it's those open sessions where we hear something interesting. So, for instance, when COVID first began, we started hearing things from all over, both during our meetings and people calling us, about the inequitable treatment of people who were getting the virus, who were people with disabilities. And we worked extremely hard with the Office of Civil Rights over at the Department of Health and Human Services. I know this sounds hard to believe, Joyce Bender, but we had to put out a regulation talking to the medical community saying, "You do not have the right to withhold care from people with disabilities simply because they have a disability, or you may not value their life as much as somebody else's life." So NCB has that. I am, you know, I am extraordinarily proud that during my time I've had the opportunity opportunity to serve with Mr. Gallegos, who is probably one of the brightest men I've ever met. I mean, he scares me. He knows more law around disability than most people have forgotten, and he is a remarkable chairman, and it was an honor to serve as the chairman with him, and it is an honor to serve under him as he is the chairman. As I said, NCD is totally bipartisan. And I have been on the Council as a Senate appointee appointed by Senator McConnell. I believe he was appointed by Senator Schumer, so you could see opposite ends of the spectrum at that point, quote unquote. We have never had— I can't remember a time on the Council that we have been in disagreement because during our tenures, what we have done is we have focused, focused, laser-focused, not on the politics of the issue, but on the responsibility to help people with disabilities. And very honestly, during the pandemic, I think one of the first things that, you know, I may have gotten myself crosshairs with the past administration was that during the briefings on COVID, they didn't have a sign language interpreter. I mean, you know, we were being told that captioning and stuff, and we basically sent letters to the White House saying this is really not acceptable, and then they'd come back and say no, things like closed captioning is not acceptable either because captioning is often very bad. So we have that degree of independence. I can't tell you how many letters, you know, during my tenure as a chairman that we've dashed off to the White House or to, you know, a member of a cabinet member or a member of Congress or the Senate to talk about very important issues. And by and large, you know, we get responses. Not always the response we want, but we'll keep fighting until we get what we need.

That is so awesome that you do that. I have to tell you, Neil, I did not know about those open meetings you have, the quarterly meetings. I mean, I think that's really awesome. I think that's great. Where do people follow NCD? Where do they go? On the website?

It's really very, very simple. It's ncd.gov. That's it, ncd.gov. Now, are you still involved with them then, Neil? Oh yeah, absolutely. Uh, I, I have been, uh, as I said, I was appointed by Senator McConnell, and the way it works is that president has the right to elevate someone to the chairmanship. So I was elevated during the last administration, and then as is extraordinarily natural, and as it should be, Mr. Gallegos was elevated during this administration. A very, very comfortable and a wonderful handoff. As a matter of fact, I've said this to his face, I'll say it again, during transition I recommended him. So I'm very proud of the fact that he's the chair.

Well, he really likes you also. I mean, he was really— and he is really a wonderful person. But he also spoke very highly of you. Thank you. At no end. Thank you. Yeah, and you know, I'm just really glad we have a watchdog. That's great that we have that watchdog organization because that way, just as you said, 14c, just as you said, healthcare disparity, you know, that way we have someone, a group out there, you know, looking out for us and fighting the fight for us all the time. So, Neil, I have to ask you, because I don't want the show to end without me asking this: what do you hope your legacy will be? What do you hope people will say about you?

I was a good husband and father. Those are the, you know, Joyce Bender. I think I go back to what I said a little bit before. I would I would hope there would be people that would say I learned something from him. It helped me. It helped me understand my responsibility within the global issue of disability and other issues in general. Whenever I give a speech or have given a speech over the years, and I'd say over the last 15 years I've probably given 300 or 400 speeches, not to mention all all of the online things I've done, I never hesitate to remind people, whether it's a corporate meeting group or a group, you know, you've heard everything we've talked about, we're telling you everything that really companies have to do, but don't go back to your business and sit around waiting for someone to do something. You have to do it. You do it. You be the first person who sees the next person come through the with a disability, who asks them what their skills are and helps them out and mentors them and teaches them. Doesn't take a lot of, doesn't take a lot of work to be kind. It doesn't take a lot of work to help out. So I always tell people that, you know, that, that to me is important. But I guess the, the, the thing most important to me has been, as I mentioned, I have a brother who has who passed away recently, who was a quadriplegic. And he used to say to me, whom I love dearly— my brother Rob is my older brother, my hero, you know, my Marine, the whole nine yards— and I would talk to him, and he used to say to me, 'Neil,' he says, 'Remember one thing: in America, when you go in a room for the first time, you get asked two questions: your name and what you do.' If you're not If you don't have something that you do by way of employment, he said, they move on to the next person. You become less than a person in their eyes. So he used to say to me, Neil, you fight for stuff, fight for people to be employed, fight for more people to be employed. And that's one of the reasons why you and I have had such simpatico over the last, you know, many years that We know we've each other because we understand that you can have the best of everything. You can have a great education. You can have everything. And people with disabilities, you know, many, many of them have college educations and sit at home and never get a job. That keeps me up at night. It really literally brings tears to my eyes that that happens simply because the person is in a wheelchair. The other thing for me— is that I want to be remembered for is that in working, you know, realizing that there is, that healthcare, that a person's health is terribly important. You know, it's really funny. During my tenure, and I am delighted that Mr. Gallegos is moving on with, you know, looking at healthcare, you know, the access, Accessibility of healthcare in America for people with disabilities is horrendous. People who are in wheelchairs, men who are in wheelchairs, are less likely, are less than 50% likely to ever get a prostate exam because they can't get the person out of the wheelchair into a table because they don't have an accessible table that articulates. It's even more abysmal when you start talking about women as it relates to breast cancer. A woman in a wheelchair cannot stand to take a normal mammogram. Well, guess what? She's not going to get one. Now, I'm not talking about indigence. I'm talking about people with disabilities who are paid, have the insurance, and so on and so on. I'm working on a project right now that I'm I'm extremely excited about. After having done some research and things, we realized that, for instance, people who have limited ability to hear and other disabilities don't get the full Medicare benefits they're entitled to because no one tells them and because the information isn't there for them to get in a format that they can take in. So I'm working with a team a team of people to figure out how to make that information more accessible. So while we worry about employment and while we worry about things like healthcare, it's terribly important to understand that access to healthcare, understanding healthcare, understanding how to get it, understanding what you're entitled to is absolutely essential because We really— it's almost like, you know, Joyce Bender, it's like, it's like a fan dancer. It's there, we'll show it to you a little bit, but then we cover it up and we don't give you the opportunity to really understand it. We don't give you the people to help guide you through it. We don't give you the, the text and the materials to look at it in a way that you can get. I have to tell you, I went on, you know, Medicare a few years ago. And I'm reasonably intelligent. It took me a long time to fight through the morass of that information to be able to get what I wanted. And I have to tell you, I had to hold my breath to make sure I got what I needed, because as you know, I'm a person who has, uh, I have leukemia. So it's really— my healthcare is terribly important. So these are issues that for me, I am, I'm proud to have worked on. And Joyce, I'm going to continue working on them, as I think you probably are aware.

Oh, I know you will, Neil. I know you will. And, uh, it— the name, your company, Romano Group LLC, what is the website if someone wants to reach you?

Uh, you know what, Joyce, people could just reach me directly. Okay, at, uh, Neil at the Romano Group com. That's it. Neil, actually, yep, Neil, yep, Neil at theromanogroup.com.

Well, Neil, it has been a pleasure to have you on the show today, an absolute pleasure. And listen, anyone that heard this show and you're thinking, oh my god, this other person should have heard it, remember the shows are on demand On demand, go to Spotify, Apple, you can subscribe to the show. But we end every show with a quote, and this just fits what Neil was talking about. The time is always right to do what is right. This is Joyce Bender, America's Voice, where disability matters, at Voice of VoiceAmerica.com. Be with us next week when we talk to— yes, following Neil— Kathy Martinez. Talk to you then.

Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific time and 2 PM Eastern time for another installment of Disability Matters. Matters right here on the Voice America Variety Channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.