Bob Kafka: Disability Rights Leader Discusses Accomplishments

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Hey everyone, welcome to the show and Happy New Year! I'm so excited about this show today. But first, I want to thank all of you great listeners. You know, this is my 21st year on Voice America. Can you believe it? 21 years. Thank you, Voice America. Thank you, Tacey, Trump, and all these great engineers. But most important are my listeners. Because that's why I've been on for 21 years, because of your dedication to the disability community. And you know, we are the only place you can go every week when we have our newsbreak to hear what's going on in the world of disability, because we take it seriously at Bender Consulting Services and VoiceAmerica.com. And then to my listeners around the world, Oh my goodness, thank you so much. I see we have some new countries listening to the show: Poland, Sweden, both new, United Kingdom, Canada, China, Australia, Jamaica, Brazil, uh, the Netherlands, Moldova, new Japan and Spain. Let me just say how much it means to me. I know that in some of these countries there are only a couple people listening to the show, But you are the people making a difference. You are changing lives by spreading this news. So if anyone English speaking, you've gotta get them to hear this show. One person, one person can make the difference. Also, you know, I wanna send out my greetings to my dear friend, Richard Roberts from the State Department who is in Brazil, and I'll be seeing him this year when I go with the State Department to speak across the country. But I love him and also Carla. I can't wait to see you. Gangyang Cho in South Korea, I hope everything is going great with you. These are two of my close friends, but Japan, Indonesia, Kazakhstan, Panama, everywhere I have worked with great people, all from the State Department arranging this. So, You know, thank you so much for all of you do at the State Department. And thank you, Highmark, for being the lead sponsor of this show. What a great, great, great company you are. Now, you know, on every show for over the past, oh my goodness, 8 years, I don't even know how many years, every show, I give a special shout out to Yoshiko Dart. And Yoshiko, oh, I know you're gonna love this show, Yoshiko. I know you're gonna love this show. And I know wherever you are, you're saying, "Lead on, Joyce." I know you are. I don't even have to be there. And you know I love you. But I am excited. I'm so excited. I have that rare privilege of being a business leader owning Bender Consulting Services, a for-profit company that focuses on the employment of people with disabilities, which you know how hard that is. And I am a disability rights advocate on many boards involved in the community. You all know I'm a woman living with epilepsy and hard of hearing. And so for that part of me, oh, was I thrilled to have Bob Kafka as my guest today. I mean, I look up to him so much, as I know many of you that know disability rights history also look up to him. He is the former national organizer of ADAPT and co-director of the Institute for Disability Access and one of our greatest heroes in disability rights history. Bob, it is a just thrill to have you on the show today. Thank you so much for joining.

Well, Joyce, that's a very humbling introduction. Shouldn't worship false idols, but I do appreciate the kind words.

Oh, you are more than welcome. And Bob, for our listeners around the world, here's what happens to me. I'll have someone on, they'll say, "Oh, I love that guest. Love that guest. Tell me more about them. I didn't know them." So would you mind telling our listeners in the United States and around the world, where did you grow up? Where did you go to college? How did you get involved in the disability rights community? How about if you share that with us?

Sure. I was born in New York City in the Bronx. It's the only borough in New York with the "the" in front of it. We're very proud of the Bronx. I graduated high school and ultimately went to Hunter College for a while, but ended up getting drafted into the Army during the Vietnam War. I served for A little less than 2 years, came back and realized I didn't want to continue going to college in New York City. So I applied to the University of Houston, and it's a long story how that happened. Somebody in my neighborhood was there, so I ended up in Texas and got my undergraduate at the University of Houston and my master's also at the University of Houston in special education. So I never thought I would end up a Bronx boy in Houston, Texas, but that's where I actually, when I graduated, The first time I ended up moving to a ghost town. It was during the period of— I suppose you could call me a hippie, and I moved to a ghost town, Jerome, Arizona. A friend of mine had gone there and was a construction worker, uh, went down, uh, and we built homes for rich Californians moving away from the hippies. In Sedona, Arizona. And ultimately, that's where I broke my neck in a car wreck in Sedona, Arizona. Ended up going through my rehab in the Bronx VA where it had been a scandal and ended up realizing again after a year of rehab, uh, to— that I didn't want to stay in New York City because it snowed and moved back to Houston.

And when I got my master's in special education, uh, so the scandal was with the hospital, you mean?

Well, it— in those days, uh, one spent a lot more time, you know, I broke my intellect like at the C5 level, which is common. And today you spend maybe 3, 4 months tops in a rehab. Back then, I mean, I literally spent from the day I entered the Bronx VA to the time I got out almost 1 year, which is unheard of today. And it really, has been an education, I must admit, in terms of where I first got involved was when a member of Paralyzed Veterans of America, Terry Mokley, came by my bed and, you know, signed me up to be a PVA member. And then when I moved to Houston is when I got I was involved with the Texas Paralyzed Veterans in the Eastern area, and that's really where I— my first involvement in disability at the grassroots level. It was with the Texas Paralyzed Veterans and then with the local group, and this was before the onset of the independent living movement. The local coalition for barrier-free living, I also got involved with them at the grassroots, is where I learned a lot of my disability education.

Well, you know, a lot of us, like in my case, my epilepsy was misdiagnosed, and I didn't know I had epilepsy, and I fell, and fractured my skull at a movie theater and ended up having life-saving brain surgery. But thank goodness with medication, you know, it controls me having a seizure. And yes, I did become involved as an advocate, but as you did, but not everyone does. And there isn't anything wrong with that, of course. You know, not everyone wants to do that, But what made you decide, I'm going to do this, like I'm going to dedicate my life to doing this?

Well, it's interesting the way it occurred. Like I said, the grassroots, the CBFL, you know, in 1977, I believe it was, got the first— one of the first grants to become an independent living center. You know, Lex Fried, who lived in Houston and was head of ILRU at that time and still is, helped the CDFL get its first grant for $200,000 and then got an extra $200,000 for deaf services.. And a very small nonprofit CDFL all of a sudden became an entity that was almost $600,000. And that was quite an experience learning, you know, how groups can morph from small nonprofit into at the time, one of the largest independent living centers in the country. Didn't get as much notoriety as both obviously the California and the Boston Center, which preceded it, but it really was one of the largest groups. And the way I got, you know, not into systematically, but involved with ADAPT was a good friend of mine, Jim Parker, who lived out in El Paso, had gone to a training in Denver, Colorado with the, what was Atlantis Community run by Wade Blank and Michael Auberger, and got to go to, in 1983, with a grant from the Access Institute to do a training on community organizing. And so he came back and then sent me an application for to go to a training in Washington, D.C., again the Access Institute., in where I just thought it was just like another, you know, conference-type training. And that's where I met Wade Blank, Michael Auberger, and Babs Johnson, who really changed my life in terms of direct action organizing and the power that you can really bring about social change with a small number of people who were dedicated to bring about that change. And actually, in 1984, even though I had said I'm not going to get arrested, it was my very first arrest fighting for access to the public buses. We were doing a protest against the American Public Transit Association, which was the national group that had promoted and sued the local option so that there wasn't to be a national mandate for lifts on all buses.

Wow, that is really an amazing story, you know, of what that did for you and how that taught you. And I got to tell you, when you were saying about the money that they got back then, I mean, it's for a new organization, it's a lot of money no matter what. But back then, that was a lot of money, you know, for a not-for-profit. That is really— that's really a great story. And I know, you know, Bob, we both have a close friend. I'm sure you knew her better than I. Because I really met Judy Heumann in like, when would that be, maybe 1998, something like that. But we lost Judy last year and it was devastating to so many of us. I wanted to hear, you know, what you have to say about Judy and how You loved Judy, and what impact that had on all these advocates getting together for the Disability Rights Museum. So let's start with Judy. How long did you know her, and what, what tribute, or what could you say about her?

Well, I mean, it goes without saying, you know, that Judy accomplished amazing things. But I didn't know her as well as many people. My first, actually, exposure to Judy was back in Houston. This was when I first was involved with the Coalition for Barrier-Free Living and the American Coalition of Citizens with Disabilities, ACCD, a group that is really not very well known in the people who document the history of the disability rights movement. Frank Bowe was a deaf gentleman that was executive director. Phyllis Rosenfeld was the president, and Judy was on the board. And they were having a board meeting in Houston, and, you know, I was just brand new, didn't know any of the people, but we were invited to come and watch some of the proceedings. And at first, I thought it was a dour group. It was funny. They were very, very staid, it seemed, even in my own mind. But that's where I first met Judy. And then over the years, through the various different ADAPT did an action in San Francisco against the inaccessible buses and trolleys. Judy participated with us, and we got closer. And over the years, we just, you know, would cross paths in different ways. So, different than a lot of people, I wouldn't call her close a friend, but I had ultimate respect, obviously, because of everything she did in terms of laying some foundation. And then obviously, as she evolved in the system, which really just— it was actually reinforced a lesson I learned about how you bring about social change, you know, ADAPT was known particularly for direct action, but what we have— ADAPT learned, and it's just been proven for so many other things, is that there are other sort of what we call prongs of the pitchfork that really combined can bring about social change. So, you have the direct action, which I think is fundamental, but then you have the legislative, political, education, and administrative. And, you know, Judy just really moved through all of those different prongs, and really the changes that we've seen in so many ways, we can, you know, celebrate all that she had done. So, you know, without, you know, I wouldn't even call us close friend, but every time we met, you know, especially since she was a Brooklyn girl and I was a Bronx boy, we always had a funny sort of tension there back and forth. So it really was a great loss in terms of the many, many different things that she did.

Yes. Yeah, that I started hearing about the, uh, what can we do to honor Judy and about the bridge and all these people that got together, and then this evolved into the Disability Rights Museum. Can you tell us what is that, Bob? What's going on there?

Yeah, you know, one of the things that really is exciting And, you know, unfortunately, Judy is not going to be around, but I really believe that the push to get an actual bricks-and-mortar disability museum in Washington, D.C. is going to come to fruition. It may be a long way off. There's a lot of work being done by a lot of grassroots people in terms of a virtual museum and a transition. There's a steering committee that is being formed to move this Disability Rights Museum. And, you know, I don't know if your listeners, you know, understand how amazing it is that we can talk about disability as one thing. It was really Section 504, where person with a disability was, you know, put into law as a definition. You know, we're an immense diverse tapestry, and we should be really proud of that tapestry. You know, we talk a lot about people with disabilities, but those of us— I mean, you mentioned, Joyce Bender, your epilepsy. I'm a quadriplegic. Spinal cord, blind, deaf, hidden disabilities, brain injury, mental health, you know, we could list, you know, 100 different types of disabilities, and that coming together to have a museum to talk about the power of the message of independent living, but also the parent movement, the the different ways that the different groups have evolved, I think, will make an amazing story in terms of this disability movement. It may take a long time, but I know that the people who are involved are committed, and hopefully it can be part— whether it's part of the Smithsonian or something on its own, It's still to be decided.

Well, is there a way people, you know, can get involved with this or donate funds, or what could people do to help?

Well, you know, again, though I'm not right now integral, I'd have to I can get you that information and then people in some of the future shows can— I could get a link to do that. But if they look up Disability Rights Museum Disability History and Culture, they should be able to find it online and move forward.

Okay. Yeah, we'll do that. We will follow up because it is so new. I mean, it's since Judy passed away last year, and it is a wonderful thing. I want to just comment on something you said. Maybe people don't understand, but it is unbelievable to get people with disabilities across the board united. Because for too long, you know, we have all these silos. Especially when it comes to fundraising. But the last time people were all involved was, of course, the ADA, when Justin and Yoshiko were going around the country and getting people, you know, involved. And so to see this across the board, just as you said, all types of disabilities, even parents, is truly remarkable. And that's why I also know it will be successful. You never know what's going to happen. You just never know. But anyway, that's great. That is wonderful. And I'll be excited to follow up with all of this. It takes just a small handful of people, as Margaret Mead said, to make a huge difference. It's possible. So, Bob, I wanted to talk about— your history is incredible, but before we talk about it, I know you were involved from the beginning in Rev Up. And by the way, I met today with Helena Berger about something else, and she's always excited to hear anything about you, Bob. So let's talk about Rev Up. What is Rev Up? And why is it so important?

Talk about— you mentioned, you know, we all came together with the ADA. Obviously, the Disability Museum is something, but there's that other issue that I was going to talk about was voting that can bring us all together. And it was 2015 And our governor, Greg Abbott, who is a spinal cord injured, uses a wheelchair, was in a gubernatorial race against Wendy Davis. And she was very famous for her stand against abortion— not against abortion, but pro-abortion in the Texas legislature and filibustered existed for a while. So there was a governor's race, and we thought it would be a perfect time to get the disability vote engaged, and it hasn't been seen as a disability vote. You know, most movements have gone from the streets to legislation, and then they then don't so much move on, but then through the ballot box. And the disability community, though we know it votes, has never been voted— never been seen as a disability vote. And so in 2015, we kicked off Rev Up Texas, which was the first rev up in the country, and it stands for Register, Educate, Vote, Use Your Power. And I realized very quickly that this needed to be beyond just Texas, and Helena Berger, who was then the executive director of AAPD, the American Association of People with Disabilities, I contacted her. I knew her from past association and said, "This really needs to be national." And she, working with her communications people, took a lot of our information, made it sort of generic so it could be used, and from that time, I think there's well over 40 REV UP type groups the country. Maria Towns, now Alexis Marlin, has basically really made Rev Up into a national force. But I really want to emphasize that we still have not really convinced the candidates and most politicians that there is such a thing as the disability vote, mainly because, you know, we don't get polled in that way. There's very little accountability in data. Obviously, there's nothing on the voter registration cards that asks disability questions. There's no exit polling that's being done. And so it's very hard to And, you know, the disability community, a lot of it is now 501 nonprofits, so sometimes they're hesitant to get in politics. But what we talk about and rev up is that you focus on the issues that are important to people with disabilities, and then if one party is one party is against. It's not partisan to support candidates that focus on the issue. And Rev Up is growing, and I believe it's been shown in over the last about a decade that the disability vote is increasing. The one group that has been studying it, the Rutgers University research program, head up by Douglas Crease and Lisa Shore, has done some excellent data showing that the disability vote is growing. We still, as the disability community, vote less than the able-bodied community, but we're growing. I really believe that, especially in this year, 2024, that the disability community should have voting, voter registration, education on the issues, and getting out the disability vote to be their number one priority. Because if we don't get people at the national, state, and local— because you can't just focus on the national. The game is going to be at the local level. Nothing's getting done in Congress, and after this election, it doesn't look like it's going to be— it could be more stalemate. So we just have to realize that we're going to have to make the changes at the state level, and so— and at the local level. So that's where we need to put our energy.

Oh, that is so important. Yes, we are so excited to have Rev Up right here, uh, that we have coordinated right here in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. But that register, educate, vote— we've got the power. We've got to get out there and vote. As you said, it isn't partisan, but you need to vote. Let your voice be heard. When you have a disability, I know— well, no No matter who it is, they should vote, but it directly impacts you. And hey, it's time for our news break with Perry Jude Radesik, CEO of Disability Rights PA. Perry, I was just telling Bob how we are the only source in the United States where every week we have news, and being that you're with Disability Rights PA. I'm so honored to be on the board. And a national— you are a national disability rights leader. You make a difference. So, Perry, what do you have for us today?

Hey, thanks, Joyce Bender, for having us as always. Well, today is the deadline to submit an application to join the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Advisory Committee on Long COVID. Last November, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services put out a public notice in the Federal Register about a new advisory committee, and they issued calls for nominations. HHS wants to include individuals outside of government, including those with lived experience with Long COVID, and individuals who care for those with Long COVID. Now, Joyce, science has yet to determine why COVID-19 symptoms can last months or years after an infection. Statistics from the Centers for Disease Control have documented 1 in 6 American adults are impacted from Long COVID. 1 in 6. The Secretary's Advisory Committee on Long COVID is going to support HHS in offering recommendations about Long COVID, and there's going to be a focus on health equity. So, this advisory committee is going to include up to 20 members, and HHS, again, is seeking representatives from the research community, the medical community, the disability community, public health groups, people with lived experience with Long COVID. Joyce, advocacy matters. Now, 11:59 PM this evening is the deadline to apply. You got to apply today if you are interested in serving on the Secretary's Advisory Committee on Long COVID. So, where do you get all the information? You can go to disability.gov. Rightspa.org. That's disabilityrightspa.org. Scroll down to about the middle of our home page. You'll click on today's advocacy matter segment, and there you're going to find all the information we talked about, including links to the Health and Human Services press release, Federal Register notice, and a question and answers document that's going to give you all the information you need and answers to questions you may have about how you apply and what you need to apply to be part of the Secretary's Advisory Committee on Long COVID.

Oh, so important. That is so important. I hope they all go to disabilityrightspa.org and go to the Advocacy Matters page. And Bob, I want to tell you that Perry is very involved here in Pennsylvania with Rev Up, and, and I know, Perry, that you did a lot in all the elections trying to get people registered, uh, and out there to vote. And making sure those polls are accessible. And I know you'll be on it again this election.

Absolutely, Joyce. It's been a pleasure to work with the Bender Leadership Academy, with Scott and Gerald and Laura. And it's great. I think we're going to have some wonderful plans for the spring, summer, and fall fall to turn people out to vote and to get the message of voting out there for everyone.

Oh, so awesome. So you see, Bob, it started in Texas, but now here we are in Pittsburgh.

Yeah, and Pennsylvania is, uh, you know, one of the key states that everybody, uh, the president has made, what, 3 or 4 visits to Pennsylvania. Uh, I know Food is good in Pennsylvania, but I think he might have another motive by visiting y'all. So, but I just would encourage you to start getting people out for the primaries, so because that way they become sort of, you know, in the process before they're inundated for the November election.

Yeah, that's right. And we are. You can count on us, right, Perry?

Absolutely, and looking forward to also partnering with Disability Pride Pennsylvania this year to bring a voting message. So, we're excited about a partnership with them as well.

And Bender Leadership Academy has, as most of you know, my listeners, We started a not-for-profit, the Bender Leadership Academy, to prepare high school students with disabilities about the world of work, fighting bullying, and the mental health initiative. But we also— the Jared Community Engagement is teaching our students how to vote. And Perry, we're We're having an event this June, Bender Leadership Academy, for Pride Month. So, I know you attended before and we'll let you know about that again.

Sounds good. Bob, thanks for being on the show. I'm enjoying all of your information so far.

All right, thank you.

Thanks, Perry. Talk to you next week. Okay, Bob, that is so exciting, and you're right, we do have good food, but you're also right, I think he's coming here for another reason. And, you know, next, I don't know where to start. I really don't when it comes to ADAPT. I think most people in the disability community know what ADAPT is. But how did this come to be? How was ADAPT founded?

Well, it's a really interesting story. Wade Blank, who was a reverend and was active in the civil rights movement, was moved to Denver, Colorado, and started to work in a nursing facility as recreation director. And to go fast forward through this story, he got fired because he took the young people ward that he was in charge of, he took them to concerts, he started to have them drink alcohol, heaven forbid young adults should drink, and ended up getting fired, what happened was he then, with the work of the legal staff, sued the nursing facility and got a civil rights settlement saying that these people were discriminated, and he started what was called the Atlantis Community, and it was these young people who got out and with their individual settlements they purchased homes and lived in the Denver community, and he realized, they realized together that they, though out of the nursing facility, couldn't get off off the curb. So, they started to do minimal little curb cut demonstrations with little hammers and the People's Ramp, but then realized that the really big issue was the lack of public transportation. And then that's when they realized that in 1983 that they were going to start ADAPT. They did a protest on the corner of Colorado and Colfax. The gang of 19 did this called Stop the Bus, held it captive, and they negotiated for Denver to be one of the first systems in the country to be accessible, and that was in 1983. Wade Blank and Mike Orberg were co-directors of the Atlantis Community, which ironically was a traditional home health agency but provided services to these people in a consumer-directed way, even though it wasn't a consumer-directed model, and from that small group in 1983, that's what evolved into a national organization where grassroots groups all over the country started to develop. My first experience in 1984 when I was talking about going to the training of the Access Institute, which was gotten by the Atlantis community, there were only 42 people. And so those 42 people, you know, really evolved into hundreds and thousands across the country, and ADAPT is well known for many of its protests, but it also did lawsuits, did a lot of other things to bring about the— that eventually would be included in the Americans with Disabilities Act. And it's really funny, Joyce, because I can tell you, if you get arrested once or you chain yourself to something one time, no matter what other system things you do, legislative, whatever, the thing people always say to me, the first thing, been arrested lately, Bob? You know, it's always, uh, it really doesn't matter, uh, really. And it's funny because even though Mike Auerberg and I look nothing alike, uh, it must be something when you're chained to something. We all start looking alike. But there was a real thought-out process in terms— so many people think that we were doing these protests, getting out of our chairs, getting arrested was for publicity. In some ways it was to highlight, but what people didn't realize is that for so many members of ADAPT, this was their first ability to question authority. It was standing up to power. It was to take control. Many of these people were people with developmental disabilities, physical, it really didn't matter. Some were educated, some weren't. That was really, thing that so much kept me involved in ADAPT. It was about family, it was about community, the Atlantis community concept of bringing together. And the people who I've known for years, still today, we have a warm feeling. It's sort of the ADAPT feeling, the ADAPT community. You know, that's what most people who stay with ADAPT feel very strongly. That they're working together to get something done. It isn't a conference, it's not individuals, sleep 3, 4 people to a room. We do grassroots fundraising to get there. I remember we did an action in Detroit, Michigan, and, you know, they really wondered where all our funding came. Did we fly people in? It was so ironic that most people just, you know, would do very grassroots-type funding to get there, but they did it because they felt the issue of access to the public transportation system, which morphed into Greyhound, then also access to all transportation. And I've learned over the years that building this type of community is really helpful in terms of successful social movements, and we need more of it, especially today.

Yes, we do. I think we have a caller on the line. Lorenda, are you on the line?

Hi, Joyce, I am. Can you hear me okay?

I hear you fine, thank you.

Perfect.

Do you have something for Bob?

No, I actually—

in addition to, in addition to what you're going to talk about at ADP, Lorenda and Olivia Dunn, Bob, are— here is a company that cares about people with disabilities, and they have reached out, and I am their protégé Disability:IN has a program where they're trying to get corporate America to work with disability-owned business enterprises, and some are very small and some are people with very significant disabilities, but I'm so proud to work with ADP. So Lorenda and Olivia, what do you have to say?

Yes, so Joyce, thank you so much for inviting Olivia and myself yourself today. Just wanted to give a little background in history about ADP for those who may not be aware of us. If I tell you what we do, I'm sure you know who we are, but ADP is a comprehensive global provider of cloud-based human capital management solutions. So think about HR, payroll, talent, time, and benefits administration. So we are almost 70 years old, or I think We're going on our 75th actually as far as celebrating how long we've been providing these services to small and medium-sized businesses as well as large corporations. Libby and I work in our global procurement organization and we actually have responsibilities for ensuring that we use disability-owned businesses. We want to ensure that a certain percentage of spend is done with diversity-owned businesses across the board. Board, and we have responsibilities for meeting, growing those relationships, making those introductions, as well as partnering and having relationships with organizations like Disability:IN that connect us to people like you, Joyce Bender, right, that not only can come to us and receive some type of mentorship, but in, in return, we also gain a lot of knowledge and information from you as well. So we're very happy that we're still starting to grow our partnership in this space, learn more about disability-owned practices as well as opportunities for those businesses who are owned, operated, and really managed by any people who have disabilities. So really happy to be here. I'll turn it over to Olivia so she can introduce herself. Thanks, Arendah. Hi, Joyce Bender. Can you hear me okay?

Yes, I can, Olivia.

Thank you so much for having us. I'll echo, you know, some of what Lorinda said, but we're really excited to be here today, and we're really excited to have you as our mentee as part of the Disability and Mentorship Mentee Program. And I know just as much as you may learn from us in terms of the organization and what we do at ADP, we're definitely learning a lot from you and really excited to continue to do so. As we work with you in the new year. So thank you again for having us.

Okay, I want to say these two are awesome, and ADP is awesome because too many companies do not include disability when they look at diversity spending, uh, and ADP is, and Lorenda and Olivia are like disability rights leaders This is a great company and great people to work with, and I can't wait to see how we get people hired.

Absolutely, Joyce Bender. And, and again, this partnership is so important to us because we want to do more. We want to practice what is important to our company as an organization, what aligns with those practices as an that aligns with our associates and really our, our community. So we really emphasize a lot working with our different business resource groups like our Thrive Business Resource Group, which is for our associates who are allies or may have disabilities. And we learn so much from each other. And what we try to do with that is continue to put that focus on what are you doing in your local communities? What businesses are you frequenting? You don't always have to go to that big box store, right? Where do you get your dry cleaning? Where do you get your hair done? Where do you purchase your communications print products? Whatever it may be, we want that to be in consideration. And in turn, don't only think about it in the perspective of doing that business locally in your communities. Is there an opportunity for those disability-owned businesses to work with ADP? We purchase those same— purchase those same products, those same services So what are those opportunities now to grow and scale that business to not be a small business in your local community, but also work with all the large corporations that may be a part of that community so they grow, they scale, we continue to have that economic impact, and we continue to support some of the things that are truly important to our communities as well as the members of our community. So we are so thrilled to continue to learn from you. Have you learned from from us and see how we can partner to expand this across the nation where there's opportunities for our ADP sites. Another part of that is the products and services that we sell for disability-owned businesses. Do you need help with your payroll? You should be worried about growing that business. Leave that to us. We have special programs in place. We have a lot of marketing that we put into ensuring that disability-owned businesses as well as all diverse businesses know that they're not too small and that they too can purchase products and services from ADP that help them in their day-to-day needs as it aligns with their own employees and their associates and how to manage their human capital payroll needs.

See, you can help. You can be a spokesperson because people with disabilities don't want pity. They want paychecks. They want to work and they should be given the same opportunity as anyone else. So thank you, you are awesome, both of you. Can't wait to get together.

Absolutely, we appreciate you. We look forward to being able to come back to your show and just continue to elaborate and expand on what we do, how we can help, and really just provide that additional information that I think is very pertinent and imperative to to disability-owned businesses and even thinking about it from the perspective of those actual disability folks who are looking for employment from companies like ADP. How can we help in that sense? So we're going to work on that and we're going to continue to grow and scale and really hope that others like us jump on to help ensure that we're all doing our part as it aligns with what's important to disability-owned associates, businesses, employees, whoever it may be, we want to continue to show that support and show that we are actually going to do something to help with those collaborations, those initiatives, whatever it takes. We want to be at the forefront, and we are happy to have you to partner because you are giving us a lot of guidance and input, and it is really helping with some of that strategic planning.

Oh, my pleasure. All right, you two, lead on.

We will.

All right.

Thank you for having us, Joyce Bender.

You're welcome. Okay, bye-bye. See, Bobbi, I am, I am all about employment. People with disabilities need employment, and they need— and there are people with very significant disabilities that are trying to start a business, and I'm trying to break through and tell companies they need to include us, people with disabilities. And I know you know how important employment is.

It has been one of the most difficult parts. You know, the ADA has been so successful. Ironically, the employment piece has been probably the least successful, and it really does take ongoing focus. So, Joyce Bender, in anything to start moving that. And, you know, it's ironic because, you know, for so many people, employment was the political reason, you know, the ADA was passed, even though it was a civil rights piece of legislation. The focus was on that it would start employing people with disabilities. And in some ways, I think all the access that it has brought about—public transportation, you know, all the improvements that have happened—is probably laying the groundwork for a surge in people being employed, especially With the education system getting better for children with disabilities, I think, you know, there's going to be a surge. Hopefully it'll be in our lifetime, Joyce. I know, Bob.

Well, I'm working on it. Well, Bob, thank you. Thank you again. You know, so much to talk about, but I so appreciate we appreciate you being with, and we end every show with a quote. And I know you're gonna love this one, Bob. "Vote as if your life depends upon it, because it does," said the great Justin Dart Jr. This is Joyce Bender, America's Voice, where disability matters. Voiceamerica.com. Follow this man, Bob Kafka, and see all the great things he's doing. And in the words of Mary Brooker, choose joy.

Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in.

Please join us next Tuesday at 11:00 AM Pacific Time and 2:00 PM Eastern Time Join us next time for another installment of Disability Matters, right here on the Voice America Variety Channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.