Christine Griffin: Her Long Career in Disability Advocacy

At Highmark Health, we believe what makes us unique makes us better. Our differences broaden our perspectives and foster a variety of skills to complement each other, creating a stronger and more vibrant workforce. It's this belief that earned us recognition as the Best Place to Work for the 10th year for individuals with disabilities in a survey by the American Association of People with Disabilities and Disability:IN. We'll continue to celebrate and benefit from the inclusion of all people. To find out more, visit highmarkhealth.org. Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Hi everyone, this is Joyce Bender on Disability Matters with Joyce Bender on Voice America. Joycebender.com. Thank you. Thank you for joining us today. I really, really appreciate it. I hope you know that. And to all of my listeners around the world, who knew that I would go from 14 countries to hundreds? Who would have ever thought that? And you know what? Some of them are like remote countries in Africa, and some of them only have one listener. And I tell them all the time, one person can make a difference. Do you know how much I appreciate you? One people, wherever you are, one person. Thank you. Thank you. So anyway, one of our countries after the United States with the most listeners is— I need the ding, ding, ding. Ready? Singapore. Singapore. How about that? Thank you, Singapore. And thank you all of the people in that country that are listening to the show. And a special shout out to Yoshiko Dart. Yoshiko, I'm still with you, still doing this because You know, I want people to know that people with disabilities also have a history. And I mean, it's not being talked about. It was never talked about a lot. Now it's just not. But Justin Dart was one of the great heroes of the civil disability civil rights leaders. He and Yoshiko, went around the country 5 times. I used to think it was less, but she told me. Going, meeting with groups saying, "Hey, you should support the Americans with Disabilities Act." What a wonderful couple they are. And of course, we lost Justin in, I think it was 2002, But we still have Yoshiko. So Yoshiko, love you. Thank you for being with us. And Heimark, what a wonderful company. Sponsor for years, lead sponsor of this radio show. Thank you everyone. And I must tell you, I am so excited today because of our guest who is also known in the United States as a great disability rights leader, and I'm so honored to say my friend, Chris Griffin. Welcome to the show.

Thank you very much, Joyce. Great to be here.

Well, you know, Chris, um, you just heard me tell you about all these new listeners. So if you don't mind sharing your journey with them so they'll know more about you.

Where do I begin, Joyce? So I, I was a woman with a disability. I was working as a, as an engineer actually, and I decided to go to law school and I went to law school with a whole different game plan in mind. But while I was in law school, the Americans with Disabilities Act was passed and I started to learn about that and I was able to get myself involved with the ADA Network, is what it was called at the time, and that really launched a different career path for me because I knew it was an exciting new law that I wanted to be a part of, and selfish in some respects because I was a woman with a disability and it was going to help me, but I knew it would help a lot of other people with disabilities too. So that's how I ended up doing disability rights work.

And then you went to the government.

Yeah, well, I went to the Disability Law Center first. I had a Skadden fellowship, and then I went and worked for the EEOC as an attorney advisor for the vice chair in the Clinton administration. I worked for a guy named Paul Iwasaki, who was a great Japanese civil rights leader. He, uh, after I left there, I went back to the Disability Law Center, which is the protection advocacy agency of Massachusetts, and I was the executive director there. From there, I ended up going to Washington and becoming a commissioner at the EEOC, and I did that for several years till Obama was elected, because I was a Democratic appointee in a Republican administration, and then when President Obama came in, he elevated myself and the other Democrat to the leadership position. So I was Vice Chair of the EEOC. And then from there, I moved over to be Deputy Director of the Office of Personnel Management, which the president nominated me for, and I was confirmed by the Senate. And we did a lot of great things while I was there, especially on employment of people with disabilities. We got the president to sign an executive order that increased the hiring of people with disabilities in the federal government. And it was, you know, it was a great time to be there. So it was a lot of fun and we got a lot of things accomplished.

Well, I know, first of all, the Office of Personnel Management is the largest human resources agency in the world because it's the whole federal government. Exactly. But I remember, was it the 20th anniversary?

Yes.

Is that right? Yeah. When President Obama, you know, when he came out and spoke, and this is when the executive order for hiring 100,000 people over 5 years came to be.

Exactly.

And what I remember is you going up with the president and other appointees and having your photograph taken.

Yeah, I was sitting right next to him when he signed that executive order. It was a thrill.

It really was great.

And then if you remember, you were there when we all, a big group of us had our disability rights leaders in the country. We had our picture taken with him in the But I forget the name of that room. It's a great, great room right off of the garden there. Anyway, we, you know, that was a great photo too. It was fun.

Yeah. My funny story about that day is that I had been asked to introduce the president.

Yeah.

And I was so Wow, I was so honored that I would be asked to do that. So I put my speech together, sent it in to be reviewed, and it came, you know, they said, yes, it's fine. Oh, I couldn't believe it. As a matter of fact, I couldn't believe that the name next to me was Patti LaBelle, who is absolutely one of my most favorite singers. And anyway, so David, who was the medical examiner on CSI, was also there. And he said something about introducing the president. Oh, you are? And I said, yes. And he said he was confused about this. The next thing I know, Valerie Jarrett is saying, and now that international employment executive coming up to introduce the president, Joyce Bender, and oh, oh, oh, wait, I had withdrawn because I had—

you had the contract. Exactly.

I had the contract with her. It would have been a conflict of interest. And Then the voice of God, and now to introduce the president. And it was David.

Yeah.

And oh, I died. Valerie looked at me and I shook my head. Someone forgot to give her the change. I always wondered what happened to that person.

Yeah.

But Tony Cuomo said to me, well, look at this. If you would go tell people, oh, I was asked to. Introduced the president. They would say, oh yeah, right. Now they know it's true. All they have to do is look at that video and they will hear her saying it was you. Oh my goodness. Yeah, I will.

You know what I remember about that day that's pretty funny? So I get to the office in the morning and I knew I was going to go to the signing, but I didn't know I was going to play a, a bigger role. And I looked at what I was wearing and I thought Oh my God, I can't wear this. I jumped in my car, drove to Nordstrom at Pentagon City Mall, bought a new jacket, and I think I kept the same pants. I just changed the jacket to a nicer outfit and went back to the office and changed and then went over to the White House. That's what I remember, being in a big rush to get a new outfit. Yeah.

Well, see, we both have. We both have things that happened that day.

Yeah, that was a good day.

Yeah, well, Chris, I am so honored that you chose to work with Bender Consulting Services, but you are working in a special area, which is retained search, and I thought I'd let you talk about that.

Well, as you know, I love working with you. You and I both have a passion for the employment of people with disabilities. I've always said that I think real inclusion in this society will happen when We are in the workplace in a much more significant way and numbers, because when you're in the workplace with people without disabilities and you're doing the same job they're doing, they start to look at you differently. And that's where I personally saw a change in how people treated me as a woman with a disability. And so I know that's true for everybody else too. So employment has always been a passion. Every access to everything is important, don't get me wrong, but employment is really is really, I think, the key to full inclusion. And we just aren't where we should be. And so you and I share that passion, and I love working with you because of that. And you know that we've been working on a variety of searches that focus on executive search, leadership positions within organizations. And so I love doing that, and we've done a number of great searches. Whether it was World Institute on Disability, disability rights advocates, a number of ILCs, the California Foundation for Independent Living. I love working with them. Sidney in New York. I did the search for the Disability Law Center several years after I left. They were looking for a new executive director and I did that search. I've done a number of protection advocacy agency leadership searches, and I love doing this work. It's very rewarding.

Yes, you also found the head of the National Disability— National Council on Disability Rights. Is that right? NDRN.

Oh, NDRN.

Yes. NDRN. That's right.

The leader of NDRN. Who's an amazing woman. And I'm trying to think of, you know, most recently, you know, I've done a lot of independent living centers, but, you know, we've done a lot of national searches and it's, like I said, very rewarding and fun to do. And we're working with organizations that are committed to hiring people with disabilities in leadership positions. And that's the key. So that's how we're going to change things in this world.

That is right. And that is the only way we're going to change things. Also, right before you joined me, you placed Maria Towne.

That's correct. That's how I got started in this. You were, you were on the board of AAPD and I had been the chair years before and they were looking for someone to do the search and, and I volunteered to do it, and that's how I really cut my teeth on the executive search business and resulted in Maria Townend, who's a great leader throughout this country. And I've also gone on to do a couple of other searches for them, the Director of Public Policy, the Chief Operating Officer. So, I've worked closely with in partnership with the AAPD for many, many years. And most recently, I actually, I should have mentioned, I did the search for the Autism Self Advocacy Network. Oh yeah, that's right. And yep, had a great experience there. There's now a great leader there. And you know, it's been fun.

So, Kris, what is— I know, I know what it is, but what is your feeling when these organizations want you to find someone but not a person with a disability? You know, not required.

Yeah, this is, this is really a problem, and Andy Imperato and I were talking about this just the other day, that there are still disability organizations in this country. There's independent living centers, there's national membership and leadership organizations for various people with disabilities, and yet they continue to hire people without disabilities. And I just, you know, this is how many years? It's going to be 36 years since the passage of the ADA, and we're still fighting this fight. Still arguing that it should be people with disabilities leading these organizations. And, you know, without representation in these organizations, how do we think we're going to make these changes? We need to have representation. We need to have a voice, and we need to be the solution to inclusion in this country and employment.

And we feel so strongly about this that we will not work on that search. We will give up the money if it is not a person with a disability. That's right. And sometimes these are big disability organizations. I cannot imagine why they feel like that when we have this high unemployment. I know it breaks your heart every time, Chris.

Yeah, it really does. It gets to me. But you know, we have this motto in the community, nothing about us without us. And yet we continue to go on and hire people without disabilities to run protection advocacy agencies, some independent living centers, although you don't see as much in that sector, but certainly the big national disability organizations, I won't name them, but you know, a lot of them have done hiring recently and they hire people without disabilities. And it's sad that, you know, we're the largest minority group in the country, we're well-educated, we have experience, and the issue isn't capacity, it's opportunity and it's access and it's having a voice. And so it's really, you know, it's, it's so discouraging when you meet an organization that, that won't commit to that.

So, well, just to put this in perspective, NAACP, mm-hmm, yeah, tell the board saying, well, we're going to hire a white You can include white people. I mean, why would you ever do that? Or yes, we chose a white person, but they have adopted an African-American child. Yeah. Because how often do we hear, well, can't you hire a parent, you know, a parent of a person with a disability? No, we can't.

You know, this bothers me too. Yeah, that, you know, a lot of times, you know, it's parents of people with disabilities that think they know more than the person, than their own, you know, son or daughter who has a disability. And, you know, we know as people with disabilities they don't. And I sometimes think that parents of people with disabilities have found this as sort of a a niche employment sector for themselves because they think they're so close as allies that they are the, you know, they are as good as hiring a person with disabilities when in fact their sons and daughters should be hired instead of them. So, you know, I know parents have done a great job and are good allies in a number of ways, but they shouldn't be taking the jobs that rightly go to people with disabilities.

Well, before we talk about, um, the side where you're searching for people with disabilities, for not-for-profits listening to the show right now, no matter where they are, uh, located, that are looking for an executive director or will be, would you mind sharing what you do? Like, what happens, that you do?

Well, the first thing I do is I provide them with a very detailed draft proposal of the services I will provide. And we'll begin with a discussion about who, who and what type of qualifications and skills the person must have. We'll look at their job description. If they don't have one, we'll create one. We'll help them create one. From there, we create a job announcement that gets— that's what gets advertised and put out to the world. We then, you know, before that, I develop a marketing strategy plan to make sure that they know how we're going to market their job posting around the country. And then from there, we start gathering resumes and I scrutinize every single one. I write a weekly report to the search committee. On everybody that applies, whether they, they meet qualifications or not. I want them to see the breadth of people that are applying. And then from there, they— I make recommendations on whether they should have a telephone interview with me. I conduct the telephone interviews of the people that the search committee want me to. And then from there, based on the write-up of each telephone interview, they make a decision on who to provide— who to invite for a first-round interview. I develop the questions, set up the interviews, then we go through the first level of interview process with as many candidates as they choose. And then after that, it gets whittled down to, you know, several, 3, 2 or 3 really good candidates that they're interested in to bring back for a second interview. Develop the second interview questions and set that all up. And once those are conducted, they usually The search committee makes a decision. They make a recommendation to their board. The board hopefully gets to meet the candidates. Sometimes they want the staff to meet the 2 finalists or the 3 finalists and get their input. And then from there, a decision is made about who to hire. It takes roughly, you know, a good search takes roughly 3 to 4 months. It depends on how quick I can get things scheduled. It's really usually the search committee, they're, you know, a group of people that, uh, for— they're on nonprofit boards and they're— and they work full-time, and so this is a volunteer position that they're doing. So, you know, they have limited time to get this stuff done, to do all these interviews, but we figure that out, and, and the, the length of time is really dictated by how fast you can get the, the interviews scheduled.

So, so really what the part that the search committee is doing is interviewing the person. Yes, choosing the person.

Yeah, they're reviewing materials every week that I provide them on who's interviewed. They're making choices about who even I will conduct a telephone interview with., and then they're making choices about who to interview and participating in all the interviews.

So, well, and what I mean, you do everything else though, right?

My goal, my goal is always, Joyce, to make this easy for the search committee, knowing that they're busy people, that they're all working full-time, that this is their volunteer job, and I really do work hard to make sure that they have everything that they need to, you know, conduct a really good search and make their life easy for them.

And I would have to say it makes a big difference if the person handling the search for an organization that is hiring an executive director for a disability not-for-profit is a person with a disability. Yeah, because who would know better?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and we could talk about the search I'm doing right now, but a lot of times, especially when you work with an independent living center, the majority of the people are people with disabilities. The majority of the people on their board are people with disabilities, and their search committee is usually made up of members of their board as well as consumers that are in the community. So it's, it is, it's a good opportunity for them to weigh in on you know, who should be their next leader.

And do you interview the people on the search committee? I mean, how do you find out exactly what they're looking for?

Well, I— yes, I interview. That's my first, um, once we, you know, they sign the contract with us, then the very next thing I do is set up a Zoom call with the search committee and talk to them about what they're looking for. Sometimes they also want me to talk to the staff, they want me to talk to people in the community. I'll do basically whatever the search committee wants me to do to create a really robust position announcement and with all the skills and qualifications they're looking for. But yes, I, I interview them and listen to them and take down everything they say and make sure that that's incorporated into either the job description and/or the announcement.

So if someone would be interested in working with you, what do they do?

They would just, you know, they can contact Bender. They can contact you at your main number and your company and you'll forward it to me, or they can email me directly and it's cgriffin, cgriffin@benderconsult.com. And they can just email me and say, hey, we're interested in talking to you about a search. And that'll initiate the discussion.

So they pay a fee, get the salary, really, estimated salary divided into 3 payments. First payment is to initiate the search.

Correct.

Second payment is after you have sent candidates, and the third is the final payment after, you know, it's decided what the salary will be.

And, and, you know, thanks to you, Joyce, much to your credit, Bender charges a very modest fee for these services. If you talk to any other search company in the country, you, you would be paying, you know, their fee would be much higher than ours. So Joyce has a process by which she gives a discount to nonprofits, and we've even given further discounts to organizations that we've worked with before. So, you know, we recognize that a lot of these nonprofits do not have— they're not rolling in the dough and they don't have a lot of extra money to throw around. And so we try and accommodate what they, you know, what they can pay.

Yes, and we do not charge for the bonus. We do not charge for any other things, actually. And just as Chris said, much less expensive than a well-known executive search firm.

And that's because this is, as I said, this is a passion for you and I and for Bender as a company. This is a passion, this is a mission, this isn't, um, just a means of making money. Um, but now that being said, we do— we're professionals and we want to get paid for our work just like everybody else. So, you know, it's not a charity by any means, but We do recognize that our fee is modest compared to a lot of search companies. How many times— we won't mention the name of the organization, but I know there's one that actually we did a search for, and then the person left many years later, and they were initiating a new search, and they ended up going with a big— they thought they'd get You know, so better candidates by going with this big firm that knew nothing about disability. And what did they say when they saw you at a conference, Joyce? They said, we really wish we had gone back to Bender. And, you know, that's the truth. And we work hard and we accommodate them in every way and satisfy every request that they have. And so it's, we, We think about this differently than just some search firm.

Mm-hmm. We just— yeah, it's a— it is a passion to us. And yet we have the highest standards. You know, we're not going to send someone unless they're top-notch. And Chris, you get a lot of people referred by different avenues, but one is because of you, how well-known you are, that you can call people. In your network that are disability rights leaders across the country.

Yeah, I'll tell you, the best candidates I find, frankly, don't come from job postings in various places. They come from me picking up the phone and making, you know, 50 phone calls to people I know all over the country and say, hey, look at this job announcement. Do you know someone that might be good for this position? And really good leaders have even said to me, I've got this stellar employee. I would hate to see them go. And I'll probably regret telling you this, but this would be a perfect opportunity for them to advance. And so I'm going to talk to them and refer them to you. And Andy's a perfect example of that. You know, he's referred, you know, some of his own really good employees because he sees this as like we do, as an opportunity to advance people with disabilities into leadership positions. So I call people all over the country and talk to them about who they think would be good for a particular position. And I get some great candidates that way, the best candidates I get that way. And I think you and I both know you have an extensive network. We have a database too of many people. I mean, some people won't, get a job that I, I, they were a candidate for, and I'll come back to them and say, hey, I have this other opportunity. So we have a great database to begin with. Then we also have connections all over the country, you and I both, and through those connections, we find great candidates.

Yes, we have at Bender Consulting Services 40,000 people in our database. So, you know, we get people referred from everywhere, but Chris has a LinkedIn site. On LinkedIn, she's on LinkedIn. And you can— so she said Bender Consult, cgriffin@benderconsult.com, or just go to our website and apply or get in touch with me, and we'll be sure to get back to you. But right now, Uh, this is going to be one of your favorite times, Chris. Yes, it's time for our news break with Mathis on the mic. Jennifer, I'm with one of your favorite people. You finally got on with Chris.

Yes, Jennifer, how are you?

I'm good.

Good. Is that snow I see outside there in DC?

Indeed. No snow. No snow, right? Where you are?

No, they got snow, didn't you?

We got a little.

It's not too bad. Yeah. Yeah. We got buried, but I, I know you got some. Yeah. So good to see you, Jennifer. Yes.

Likewise. So Jennifer is here with our news for the day. So what is the news that you're going to bring to us today?

So what I wanted to highlight today is a webinar that is happening tomorrow. Um, February 25th. Um, this is a webinar that DREDEF is doing, the Disability Rights Education Defense Fund, and it is on a topic that we have talked about on the news segment before on your show, which is this lawsuit that Texas and 8 other states have brought challenging the Section 504 regulation that HHS, the Department of Health and Human Services, issued in 2024. And specifically at this point in time, there is a new version of the lawsuit that was just filed that focuses very, very specifically on Olmstead, on community integration. And so what Texas and these other 8 states are saying is that the integration mandate in Section 504 is not, does not mean what we think it means and what we have always understood it to mean for decades now. And what the courts have said it means for decades now. They are really launching a full-scale attack on Olmsted, and this is very, very important. This goes to some of the most core fundamental rights that people with disabilities have to live in their own homes and communities, to not be segregated unnecessarily in institutions, in other congregate settings, And so if you tune in tomorrow, the webinar, which is called The Renewed Attack on Section 504 and Olmstead, will happen at 1:30 Eastern time. It is for an hour and a half, so it lasts from 1:30 to 3 o'clock Eastern, and you can sign up, you can register for this webinar by going to DREDF's website, which is D-R-E-D-F dot org. It is— if you have to scroll down a little bit, if you look at upcoming events, this webinar is the first thing that is listed, and you just click on register, uh, for the webinar. And, um, the webinar will feature 4 of us. Um, I am going to talk about the law, the details of this lawsuit, what Texas is saying, what the rule said about the integration mandate, and what Texas is saying, and why they, they are arguing, we think wrongly, that the rule is invalid. They're saying it's unconstitutional and that it is illegal and it has to be struck down. They are also saying very, very problematic things about what they think the integration mandate means under 504 and the ADA. And so we'll talk about that. The webinar is also going to feature Maria Town from American Association of People with Disabilities, Theo Braddy from National Council on Independent Living, and Claudia Center from DREDEF. Claudia is really leading the webinar, um, and, um, we will, between all of us, talk about, you know, what this is, what this means, what's at stake, and what you can do. And so I just wanted to highlight that for people and to make sure that people know where to go to register. Again, it is dredf.org is the website, and if you go to upcoming events, That's where you can register.

Okay. Do you know for people that cannot see it, do you think it will be recorded?

I don't know. I actually, I suspect it will be because I think the last webinar that DREDF did on this lawsuit was recorded as well. So I suspect that it will be. Um, people can ask when they, uh, if they, if they want to register and they know they can't do it, I think they can ask at that time.

But, um, I suspect that it will be, you know, Jennifer, this is so sad because look at how hard we worked to get our attorney generals in every state who had all, who all jumped on the bandwagon and signed, um, the anti-Olmstead you know, out of the case. And we all worked very hard in every state to get our attorney generals to take their name off. In Massachusetts, we were successful by getting the attorney general, Tom Riley, to come off. He had already signed on. We told him why it was important to get his name off. We brought consumers who had been institutionalized and now were in the community, and we let them tell him why this was important. And he took his name off. And I know that happened all over the country. Yes. We're going, I mean, just, we're taking big huge leaps backwards.

Exactly.

Really sad.

Exactly. And Chris is referring to when Olmstead was in the Supreme Court, there were a lot of states that signed on to a brief initially asking the court to take the case and saying that bad things were going to happen if they upheld the integration mandate.

States had to, yeah.

Right. And then many of those states then turned around, realized that that was not what they actually believed and not what they actually meant and filed statements with the court actually saying, we disclaim what was said in that brief. And actually, many of them filed a brief supporting the integration mandate.

What year was that?

It was 19— well, the decision was 1999. Yeah. And if I recall, the argument was in 1999 too.

Yeah. Look at how many years we've enjoyed the, you know, the benefits. People have actually benefited to live in the community and be included because of that decision. How important is that decision? And to even see anyone saying that this is something that somehow is wrong to do, that it— I don't know what's their argument. Is it cost?

Is it Well, they're making a bunch of arguments. They're saying that the regulation goes beyond what the Supreme Court said because the regulation says a state has to administer its services in the most integrated setting appropriate, which has been the law again for many, many, many years. And they are saying that it is a surprise that states, when they take federal money, would have no idea, despite the decades of case law, that this is what is required. And they're making a number of arguments: it's arbitrary and capricious, it violates the Administrative Procedures Act, etc. So we can talk about it in greater detail tomorrow.

All right, that's great. That'll be a great webinar.

Yeah. You know, Jennifer, what do you think is the possibility this could happen? The bad part?

Well, um, who knows. Um, I, I think that it is important at this point to get these states off of this case, and we are hoping to get rid of this case.

And so, as you know, you've had an impact when you brought up different issues on this radio show. What should listeners do?

Well, certainly two things. I mean, one is we've talked about this a little bit, um, before on the show, which is if you are in one of these 9 states, um, and I will read them in a minute, but if you're in one of these 9 states, um, you should reach out to your attorney general and tell them, uh, to stop attacking Olmsted, to stop attacking 504, and get rid of this lawsuit, to get out of it. So that is, I think, the most important thing. And then secondly, tune into the webinar if you can, because we'll have a lot more detail about this. And I will just say the 9 states are Alaska, Florida, Indiana, Kansas, Louisiana, Missouri, Montana, and South Dakota. And DREDF has on their website a list of how to contact the attorneys general in those 9 states.

Okay, please do that. I always say if something bad happens, then everyone's, oh no, how did that happen? Okay, do something now.

Do something now. And we did this when, when Olmsted brief was filed with the Supreme Court, we can do it again.

Yes, exactly. Do something now. Yeah. Well, Jennifer, we will look forward to hearing from you about all of this next week. Thank you. Always, always a delight to have you on.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

All right.

Bye, Jennifer. Great seeing you.

Yeah. Bye-bye. Bye. She is so smart. She is so— I am so honored to have her on. Every week because she just brings the most timely news. Chris, time goes so fast. So before this show ends in about 10 minutes, let's talk about the opening. Okay.

Yeah. So I am very excited to let people know that I am doing the search for— to find the next executive director for Rolling Start Incorporated. This is a dynamic Independent Living Center in San Bernardino. They cover the— they call it the Inland Empire in California. It's west of LA. It's San Bernardino County, Monroe, uh, Mono County, and Inyo County. Those 3 counties. It's a big, you know, big piece of land that they cover, and they serve people with disabilities. They've been around for 50 years. 50 years of empowering people with disabilities and teaching them independent living skills. It's just a great organization. They're looking for someone who can, who has vision and has good nonprofit management experience to partner with the board. They have to have a deep commitment to disability rights and independent living. They really need to know what the independent living philosophy means. Um, and they'll be the chief executive working with the board, leading the staff, uh, strengthening partnerships with other disability organizations throughout the state. So this is a great, great opportunity for someone. The salary range is $90,000 to $100,000. It's a full-time job. It's an in-person job. It is not hybrid. You have a choice, I guess, of being in the office in San Bernardino, or there's another office in Victorville. I guess if you live near there, you could choose that to be your home base. But you have to do a lot of traveling around that area, the area that they cover, which is pretty extensive with those in those 3 counties. So this is— it's just a great opportunity for someone, and they can Apply by sending a resume and cover letter to me at cgriffin@benderconsult.com, and we'll take a look and put you into the pool of applicants. And we're looking for someone with a disability who, you know, really has a commitment to everything we talked about, but also has good nonprofit management experience.

Yeah, and wow. What a great opportunity.

Yeah, this is a good opportunity. What a great opportunity. California is a great state with, I guess, the largest number of independent living centers. They've got a great association that I've worked with. The California Foundation for Independent Living Centers is their statewide association. All the independent— or most of the independent living centers in the state, I think there's 28 of them, they belong to this organization. So it's a really good opportunity to learn from each other and connect with people in other parts of the state. And, um, uh, you know, you'd be part of a really great system in California.

Okay. And one more time, uh, well, I want to say this first. If you're listening, you say, oh no, I'm not looking right now. But who do you know? So many people have lost their job. Sadly, so many people. So please spread the news to others about this opening.

And go on bendaconsult.com. You can see the job opening there. You can forward it to anybody that you think might be interested. You can have them contact me. I'll be happy to talk to them. I'm talking to someone later on today who's interested, who wants to just ask some questions about the position to decide if they want to apply. I'm happy to do that as well. So just go to Benda. Consult.com or contact me at cgriffin@benderconsult.com and we'll get you the information you need. Again, whether you're going to apply or whether you want to just forward it to someone you know.

Yeah, and they would get that from the website, Chris?

Yes, it's on your website. The job posting is on your website at benderconsult.com and I can send that. It's on, it's on a number of websites already. It's on ID ILIU, which is the independent living educational component of the independent living, they do research about independent living and they have a great job posting board. It's posted on NDRN's job site. Wherever they have a job posting site that I know people with disabilities look at, I have it posted there as well. So it's in a number of places, but we know it's at, at BenderConsult.com.

So, and I want to repeat, there are a lot of people that have lost their job. You know someone at a senior level that would be great for this job. You've got to let them know. You've got to send it, send them to Bender Consult. Joycebender.com. And Chris, what do you like about this job the most?

I think connecting with other people with disabilities all over the country. I still find that fascinating. I meet new people all the time. I certainly talk to all my, my old friends, of course, but I get to meet new people with disabilities who are coming up into the community as leaders. And I get to meet them and it's really great. And it's great talking to them and hearing what they're doing. And, you know, there's some great people out there.

Yes, they are.

And that's my favorite part is just meeting and talking to people throughout the country.

Mm-hmm. And one thing I talk to people about, Chris, is urgency. Don't sit around and think, oh, do I really want to do this? You know, would this be perfect for me? You know, what should I do? You need to review it. You need to send in your resume because by the time you get in touch with Chris Bender, that position could be long gone.

That's a good point, Joyce Bender. I didn't mention that the soft closing date is March 15th, and they're going to be looking at people on a rolling basis. So, if you don't come in quick and they find someone they really like early on, you may be out of luck. So, it's important that you really get your resume and cover letter in before March 15th. But it doesn't— that's not a hard date. I mean, if someone great appears on March 16th, I know that the search committee will look at them as well. But it is important to get it in earlier rather than later.

Yeah, you want to get in. Chris, do you— I also tell people, and I don't know, I know you do too, but don't you think it's a good idea to do some research about this organization?

Absolutely. I mean, I don't know anyone that would apply for a job that hasn't gone on the organization or company, whatever it is, website and learn as much as they can about what they're doing, how they do what their staff is, is, you know, about who's doing what and then learning more about the whole system. If you're not part of the ILC movement in California already, you know, I would want to know what they're doing statewide together so that you can look at on the California Foundation for Independent Living Centers, CFILC.org, or you can go to rollingstart.org. And, uh, and find out all that information. But certainly you should be doing research before you apply, before you write your cover letter. I would— I like a cover letter that actually lets me know that they've researched and they know what they're, what they're applying for.

Yeah, and another thing I want to say about this, if you send information, if you send questions and you're really interested in this and Chris gets back to you, please get back promptly. It's so annoying when people tell you they're going to get back to you and you're waiting, waiting, have to call them again. Because just so you know, sometimes that gives Chris and I an image of what you're like. As I said, in this case, you snooze, you lose. Yeah, get in touch right away. Well, Chris, before we end the show today, You know, so many people, this is like coming from all angles, this desperation. A lot of people have lost their jobs. A lot of companies have had losses, so they're laying people off. And AI is impacting certain segments of the company. What of the country? What advice do you have for people with disabilities that feel like, oh, there's no hope? I've worked for the government all these years. How am I going to find anything? What advice do you have?

I think there's always hope and there's plenty of jobs that are open. Yes, there's a war on DEI right now, and that's causing a lot of people to lose their positions in various companies and certainly in the federal government. And there are opportunities out there. There are a lot of— if you want to stay in the disability area of work. There's plenty of sites that you can look at to find jobs. Like I said, you know, National Disability Rights Network, they advertise jobs within the P&A system, but they also advertise jobs that are disability-related outside of their system. And so, you know, Rolling Start is posted there. ILRU posts all independent living center positions that are open, as does NCL, National Council on Independent Living. They do it as well. Your site, you know, Bender always has, I mean, you have a list of jobs right now that people can apply for, and they aren't all in the disability field. That's more what I do. But you work with private companies and corporations all the time filling job. So you don't have to be only a disability advocate. You can have skills doing, you know, you could be an engineer, you can be a teacher, you can be a nurse. I think you have a bunch of nurse positions open right now, don't you, Joyce Bender?

Yes, so a lot of nurses. Yes, nurses.

There are plenty of opportunities out there. Don't, don't lose hope and just, um, you know, be, uh, you know, be aware that there are opportunities out there, but you have to do a little research and work to find them.

And, you know, just so you know, our theme this year at Bender is determination, and we talk about unwavering focus. Don't give up. Yeah, yeah. Someone that Chris knows very well and how phenomenal she is, Jamie, with this great academic background, top in her class sent out her resume to 100 different people. 100. Yeah. And didn't hear anything back. Yeah. But I was number 101. And it just so happened that right that time I was working on something at Highmark that was remote. And now she's in a high-level senior project manager position. But She didn't give up. And this is what I'm saying. Don't give up. And even go to Chamber of Commerce's website, just as Chris said, all different places, different organizations, AAPD, you know, go to different organizations. Say there's a company you're really interested in. You should be looking at the website. You should be looking at the opportunities. And talk to everyone, everyone you know. Talk to them. Hey, I'm looking for employment. Any ideas? I mean, talk to everyone you know, even if it's someone that says, well, we don't have anything. Oh, that's okay. I just wanted to see if you had any suggestions of where you think I should send my resume. That's right. But I will say, don't give up. No matter what, don't give up. And with that, you know, we have a quote at the end of every show. And today that quote is, "Part of the problem is that we tend to think that equality is about treating everyone the same when it's not. It's about fairness. It's about equity of access," said Judy Heumann. This is Joyce Bender, America's Voice, where disability matters, at voiceamerica.com. Thank you so much, Chris.

Thank you.

See, see Griffin at benderconsult.com. And in the words of Mary Brocker, when you get up tomorrow, remember, choose joy. You can't go wrong. Talk to you all next week.

Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific time and 2 PM Eastern time for another installment of Disability Matters right here on the Voice America Variety Channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.