Christine Griffin: Her Long Career in Disability Advocacy

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Hey everyone, welcome to the show. Everyone in North America and around the world, Hey, Richard Roberts and Carla in Brazil, I can't wait to see you. I wanna tell you about Richard Roberts. I just love him, okay? He is with the State Department and he is just a trailblazer. He is for the disability rights community, as is Gang-young in South Korea, Cheryl Harris right at the State Department, And oh my goodness, everyone of all— everyone I've worked with from Indonesia to Panama to Tunisia, all around the world. And speaking around the world, hey, we have listeners from Australia all the way to China and Russia and Mongolia. Yes, all these countries are listeners. And as I always say, thank you. And if it's just one person, one listening to the show in a country, you're making a difference. Spread the news, tell everyone you know. And about my listeners, I have such great listeners, you know that? They'll send me notes and get in touch with me. And you know what? I love all of you. I do. If whether you're listening live or on demand, you know what you're doing? You're helping me make a difference in the United States. You are a champion just for doing that, and I mean it. Thank you so much, and thank you, Highmark, for being the sponsor of this show for so many years. And last but far from least, special shout out to Yoshiko. Yoshiko Dart, lead on. If you could see me, Yoshiko, I have my arm up in the air waving as if you're in the room. You know, I was sitting here and I said, wow, I can't wait for this show. I mean, not that I don't like all the shows, but I must tell you, I'm really excited about this show. And that's because my guest is Christine Griffin. Yes, Christine Griffin, who is known across the United States. I always say Chris, when I talk to people and say Chris, whether it's to Andy Imperato, Tony, or Ted Kennedy, oh, they know who I mean. I mean Chris Griffin. Chris, welcome to the show.

Thank you, Joyce. Thank you so much for inviting me.

And Chris, I wanted— you are like a natural Treasure Leader friend and newly affiliated as an executive search consultant with Joyce Bender Consulting Services. But a new thing has started happening, and that is listeners around the world— wow, great show, but you know, could I know more about this person? So now what I do is I ask people to tell their story, like where they grew up, went to college. And by the way, even with the cold, I bet everyone knows you're from Boston. But where did you go on to college and then, you know, follow along this path?

Okay. All right. So I grew up, as you said, in Boston. I grew up in a large family. There were 7 kids and went to— ended up going in the United States Army before I went to college. I— my family really didn't have the money to afford college for all 7 of us. And I thought the Army was a great place to grow up, get some experience, and more importantly, earn the GI Bill, which then paid for college when I get out. And so from there, after I get out of the service, I went to what's called Massachusetts Maritime Academy, and I trained to be a marine engineer. My goal was to actually, um, work on ships as an engineer. And you got to travel the world. You worked roughly 4 months on, 4 months off. And you had to do what you wanted to do. And I just thought, you know, simple life. So, unfortunately, it didn't work out exactly that way. That's why I went to college. And then, after that, I worked as an engineer for the Food and Drug Administration for 10 years. And after that, I went from there to law school, and, um, that's how I got involved in disability rights, was when I went to law school.

Yeah, you know what, um, do they still have that GI Bill?

Yes, they do. It's actually enhanced a little bit, so it's good.

Yeah, that's good, that's good. So, uh, anyone listening to the show that is a veteran, they— what would they have to do to have access to that?

I said we— you have to join, you have to serve so many days active duty in the Armed Forces. So either the United States Army, the Coast Guard, Marines, Navy, Air Force, or the Army Reserves, whatever reserves, Armed Forces Reserves, and you have to serve so many active days active duty days to qualify for the GI Bill.

Well, that, I'm glad to hear that's still going strong. And as you said, has been enhanced. Hey, I don't know if I ever asked you this, but what the heck made you want to be an attorney with that engineering background?

Funny, I actually went to law school with the idea that I would do something related to engineering so that I would, I worked in federal compliance. FDA regulatory medical device compliance. And I thought I'd either use my law degree to do something like that, or I had an interest in patent law as well, where you use your engineering background.

Oh yeah, that would— yeah, that would be a fit. So you didn't go to law school to be, uh, in, uh, the courtroom?

No, no, not really. So I went to law school with that idea in mind, and while I was there, I I went to law school my first year in 1990. The Americans with Disabilities Act was passed, and it was— there was a lot of buzz around it because it was a new law that had just been signed and wouldn't go into effect for 2 years, but it piqued my interest, and it really changed my life and the course of my life.

Yeah, isn't that something how the dots are connected? You know what I mean? I'm going to tell you something. Although I had my accident in 1985, so, you know, I was living with a disability, I had not founded Bender Consulting yet. And I can remember standing in the kitchen at my house and my dad saying, Hey, take a look at this. I don't know what all of this means. And it was saying Americans with Disabilities Act passed, with a picture of President Bush. And little did I know how that would end up becoming so important to me, you know, later in my life. I still remember that as if that was yesterday. But I had, of course, no idea how powerful that would be and how I would be involved. And you're like me because we both joined the disability community, uh, later in our life. And you know what? We both could have lost our life when you think about it, because they— when I had my accident and had brain surgery they told my husband Bill that they did not know if I would live. I remember him telling me that he was in that, uh, ICU waiting room and how when that phone rang, how nervous he was. But of course, thank God, they said I was okay, that I was going to make it. But that Same thing with you, right? Talk about your accident.

Yeah, I was in a car accident while I was a junior at Massachusetts Maritime Academy, and, um, you know, a very serious accident. I broke my back, severed my spinal cord. Like you, ended up in intensive care, and, um, you know, shortly after that learned that, you know, my injury was permanent and that I wouldn't walk anymore and that I needed to learn how to navigate life a little bit differently, but I had some really good nurses there, and they were a spinal cord unit at Boston University Hospital, and they assured me that I'd be able to do everything that I did before, only I might do it differently. And I really took solace in that and worked hard to make sure I got through rehab and get back to my life.

Yeah, what year was that?

That was 1980.

So, wow, I was 5 years after you.

Almost 43 years ago.

Yeah, yeah, I was 5 years after, after you. Well, um, how— there's something remarkable about you that— well, there are many things, but about this accident that when you've told this story, uh, you didn't have like months and months and months, uh, to recover mentally from this. You know, why was that? Like, how did you reconcile, oh no, you know, I'm now in a wheelchair? How did you do that?

You know, it was, um, it's interesting. I mean, I accepted it. It You know, it was what it was. I had a background. I had been in the Medical Corps in the United States Army, so I understood what it meant when your spinal cord was severed, that there was no way of putting it back together again. So, I understood the medical part of it, and I just decided that I needed to get on with my life. I had things I needed to get done, and so I just worked hard to get through rehab and get out of that hospital and get back to my life. Going back to college, finishing getting my marine engineering degree, although it changed how I could use that degree. I wouldn't be able to go out on ships as I had planned to work as a marine engineer, so my idea of 4 months on, 4 months off with plenty of money to do what I wanted to do was scrapped. But I was able to get my degree and go on and get a good job and live a good life. So, I don't know, I just, I think I share this with other people in my family that you're resilient and you just, you know, take what comes and deal with things the best you can.

But not everyone is like that.

I don't think it has the resiliency factor. And so I think that's, you know, and that's too bad. I don't know if it's something that can be taught. I really think, you know, my father was very much like this. My parents, you know, had a lot of difficulties in their life and they always just, you know, kept kept going and taught us to do the same. Well, you know, I just heard—

I was gonna say, like me, I bet you were happy that just that you were alive.

Exactly. Gratitude had a lot to do with it, Joyce. And I just heard this great quote by Michael Fox. Let me see if I can remember it. Gratitude makes It's not hopefulness, but it's something like that. Being grateful makes hopefulness sustainable. And that isn't the exact quote, but it's something along those lines. And when I heard it, I thought, that's exactly— he's so right. That's exactly right. Being grateful for what you have, what you have left. I was grateful I wasn't dead. I was grateful that I was a paraplegic and I still could use my arms. So I quickly became grateful for what I had left.

Yeah, I was also, I knew, oh, oh, everything changed. Now I find out I had epilepsy all this time, but I was happy to be there.

Right.

I was happy to be alive. That's why when someone says to you as you get older, Oh, how do you feel about getting older? I say, well, what's the alternative? Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm happy to be here.

I'm happy to be alive.

Yeah, yeah. So, so, uh, Chris, how— I ask everyone this that has gone through something similar to you— how did people treat you differently after you became a wheelchair user?

You know, Joyce, I learned very quickly while I was in the hospital, people came to visit you and you saw immediately what their reaction was, whether they treated you differently or not. I learned very fast that this is the way things were going to go, that there were going to be people in your life that, you know, accepted it like you did and, well, were also grateful you were alive and, and thought, you know, it was no big deal, um, that you weren't a different person. And other people really treated you differently. So over time, you just figure that out, and you just, you know, don't really— don't deal with the people that treat you differently. Um, you just, you know, you just move on from them. And if they treat you differently and they You know, you just don't, you know, associate with them very much, and you stick with the people that know that you're the same person no matter how you get around in life or what your disability is or anything like that.

Well, um, was that some of your friends also?

Yeah, yeah, some of my friends. It was especially really evident when I went back to college. So, I go back to college. I'm now using a wheelchair, and just the way people treated you and talked to you and/or avoided you, you know, you just moved on. And I always knew that was their problem, not mine. So, I knew immediately that, you know, if they had an issue with it, then they needed to deal with it, but it wasn't my job to seek them out and try and make them feel better about it. You know, my job was to keep going and surround myself with the people that didn't see me anything— see anything different and were okay with my new mode of transportation.

Right. Well, another famous Bostonian is Ted Kennedy Jr. And how amazing is it that he too did not become a disability civil rights leader till I think it was in college that he heard about Judy Heumann, uh, and, and that he realized, wait a minute, civil rights are disability rights. And, you know, the same thing happened to you. After that happened to you, did you make a decision then, okay, you know, I'm going to get into the disability rights community Or what did you think?

No, after it happened, I went on with my life with my same friends and went back to college and got a job. And I have to be honest with you, I was a woman in a wheelchair using a wheelchair to get around, and I didn't know that many— I didn't know a lot about the people with disabilities until I got involved in wheelchair sports. So, that's where I met a group of people that were involved in racing and things like that, swimming, and I started getting involved in wheelchair sports. So, that's how I got connected to the disability community. But I got to be honest with you, wheelchair athletes are a different breed of individuals. And so, I think my exposure only to wheelchair athletes made my entry into the disability world somewhat limited. It wasn't until I went to law school and learned about, you know, that there were laws and other things that protected the civil rights of people with disabilities that I started to really think about how broad this was. And it really wasn't until I got involved in some trainings, like the network training that DOJ and EEOC put on for advocates about the Americans with Disabilities Act before it went into effect, and I really got exposed to disability advocates, real true advocates who were advocating for the rights of people with disabilities, and that's what really opened up the world of disability rights to me. It wasn't wheelchair sports by any means.

Yeah, and you know, me too, in that not sports, because I am not athletic at all, never, before the accident, after the accident. But it's when I went to the Institute of Advanced Technology at the request of a partner from Deloitte to teach them how to interview and how to get a job that I found out, oh my goodness, like no one's interviewing these people. But I didn't have exposure to people with disabilities before that. So that's funny how that happens to you. You don't realize that you're around people with non-apparent disabilities and you don't see it as clearly until you know people. With disabilities. And then, yeah, and then after that you were nominated to EEOC. We talk about that famous Bostonian, wasn't that, uh, Ted Kennedy, Senator? Yeah, Ted Kennedy.

Yeah.

So now how does that happen? How does that—

all right, so after law school I got a Skadden Fellowship and I worked at the Disability Law Center doing outreach to underserved communities to teach them about the ADA and to teach them what their rights were. And I did that for a while, and then a good friend, Andy Imperato, called me and he said, "Hey, the vice chair of the EEOC, Paulie Gosaki, is looking for an attorney who could be on his staff, but he wants someone that knows disability rights. Are you interested?" So I went down to D.C., I interviewed for the job. He was the vice chair of the EEOC under the Clinton administration. I got the job, I worked there, and then I came back to the Disability Law Center as its executive director, and I was there for about 10 years when, lo and behold, I get another call from Andy Imparato. Now, those weren't the only two calls. We talked all the time because we're friends, but he called me, and I guess it was 2005, maybe. And he said, Paul Miller, who was a commissioner at the EEOC, is leaving, and we really would love to have someone with a disability rights background, uh, take his place. Are you interested? We went back and forth, and at first I said no, and then I thought about it, and I talked to my husband Phil, who encouraged me to apply. And so I put my hat in the ring, and, um, Senator Kennedy talked to me about it, and he said, I hear you're interested. And I said yes. And he said, that's great, I, I want to nominate you. And so he nominated me to then who was the, the Senate President, um, who was, uh, Senator Reid from, uh, Nevada. And Senator Harry Reid then forward my nomination to the Bush administration. At the time, it was a Republican administration, so as a bipartisan commission, there were 3 slots on the commission that were held by Republicans, including the leadership slots, and then 2 Democratic positions. So, anyway, I was nominated and confirmed by the Senate, and that's how I became a commissioner.

Wow, you know what, Andy Imperato had a lot of things that in your life, because that's who introduced me to you.

Andy Imperato was the one that told me about the Skadden Fellowships when I was still in law school. Andy has had a significant, significant— I can't make that word more prominent, significant impact on my life. And you know, it wasn't that long ago that I left him a message one day and I just said, Andy, I know I don't say this very often, but I really love you and I really appreciate everything you've done for me over the years. And it's true, he's had a huge impact on my life.

And now, how did you meet him?

How do you know this? This is so funny. So I get a summer job working for Tom O'Neill, Tip O'Neill's son, who said, "I want you to learn everything you can about this ADA and tell me how it's going to impact my clients." He ran a public relations firm. "How will the ADA impact my clients?" Well, I really didn't know the answer, and in fact, I don't think I ever gave him the answer, but he got me so I would learn about the ADA into the most amazing trainings. So with his connections, I get into that network training. And as a matter of fact, I think he called Kennedy's office. So that was probably my beginning of getting support from Senator Kennedy. And I learned, I get very interested in the ADA, and I remember calling Phil from Washington, D.C., my husband, well, my boyfriend at the time, husband-to-be, and I said, "Hey, you know that idea of me going to law school to become a lawyer that's going to make a lot of money?" And he said, "Yeah." I said, "Well, I think that idea just went out the window because I think I'm going to work for a nonprofit and do disability rights law." And he laughed and he said, "Hey, whatever makes you happy." So I get back to law school from working that summer job and I see on a bulletin board this notice, and it said, "Create your own public interest job. Apply for a Skadden Fellowship." Blah, blah, blah, it goes on and on. "Call Andy Imperato at this number." So, I have no idea who Andy is, but I call him, and I introduce myself. When I hear his voice, I realize I had met him at a training once before. So, It's so funny. So I said, "Hey, I recognize your voice." And he, at the time, was working at the Disability Law Center, also as a Skadden Fellow. So, anyway, he got me connected to the people that ran the fellowship, and I wrote up a proposal and pitched it to them and got a Skadden Fellowship also to work at the Disability Law Center in Boston. So that was my first real introduction to Andy Imperato.

Isn't that amazing, that story? I know, I know, that is an amazing story. Um, and he is certainly a disability rights leader, no doubt about that.

Oh, absolutely, he's an incredible leader.

Yeah, yeah. And He— who was he with? The Disability Law Center?

Yeah, he was, he was, yep, he was with the Disability Law Center doing, um, a fellowship, a Skadden Fellowship, much like the one I got. Um, and then he went on to work at the EEOC and, and then recruited me to go to the EEOC. So I, I tell this joke that I've been following Andy around for years.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's funny. Um, okay, well, hey everyone, we're talking to Chris Griffin, national disability rights leader. Oh, and I'm so thrilled to say a partner of mine in Retained Search. And by the way, disability community but with not-for-profits looking for CEO or executive director, and we'll talk more about that later. But right now it's time for our news break on the half hour with, for the past 5 to 6 years now, my great news person Perry Jude Radesik. Perry, are you there?

I am, Joyce, and I've been listening to Kris today. It's great to have her as a guest on your show. It's It's been wonderful to hear her voice.

Oh, you are so awesome, Perry. Well, she likes you also, Perry.

Yeah, I do.

Yeah.

I'm a fan of Chris.

Yeah.

Well, what news do you have for us today, Perry?

So Joyce, we didn't even have time to cover all of the announcements that came out of the Biden administration last week related to the anniversary of the Americans with Disabilities Act. So we're going to cover another one today. And the— on January 26th, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission issued updated technical assistance on the Americans with Disabilities Act and employees with visual disabilities. The original technical assistance from the EEOC was released in May of 2014. These revisions were released on the anniversary of the ADA. That's the 33rd anniversary of the ADA. The new technical assistance really has a lot to offer employers, and I really encourage employers to go and click on our Advocacy Matters segment today and get a link directly to that technical assistance. First, the EEOC affirms that an employer may ask questions about the applicant's ability per— to perform the job, but they should not ask whether that applicant has undergone medical procedures related to their vision, use prescription medications related to eye conditions, or whether the applicant may have a condition that affects vision. So the EEOC is saying you can't to do that. We all know employers also have to engage in the interactive process and offer reasonable accommodations as long as they don't create an undue hardship. This updated technical assistance documents examples of accommodations that would, in most cases, not create an undue hardship in the eyes of the EEOC.

This—

these examples include flexible scheduling, Hiring a reader or a reading device or software for a person with visual disabilities, installing a flashing alarm and an audible alarm to notify employees of dangers that may exist in a workplace or on the floor of a warehouse. Joyce Bender, the Centers for Disease Control, released statistics in 2022 that showed 18.4% of all U.S. adults are blind or have some or a lot of difficulty seeing. The National Federation of the Blind reports disability statistics from Cornell University. They show data that over 70% of working-age adults who report significant vision loss are not employed full-time. Let me say that again. 70% of working-age adults who report significant vision loss are not employed full-time. And then only 2% of the ADA charges filed with the EEOC involved visual disabilities. Advocacy matters. If you are an employer, HR staff in a company, an applicant for a job, or a current employee, really check out this updated guidance. The guidance is written in a question-and-answer format. There are 21 questions and answers for review in this new technical assistance document from the EEOC. So where do you find it? Be sure to visit disabilityrightsPA.org. That's disabilityrightsPA.org. And click on today's advocacy matters segment on our homepage. You get all of the information I talked about today, the new document from the EEOC, a reminder where to file your charge of employment discrimination with the EEOC. And our own Disability Rights Pennsylvania resource on combating employment discrimination through the Americans with Disabilities Act. So get over to disabilityrightspa.org and click on today's segment to get all this great information.

Hey, Perry, that is great information, but I do have a few questions. First, though, I want to repeat 70% of people who are blind or impacted their vision in some way are not employed full-time. That is terrible. And yet, that's why I hate it when people say, "Oh, the employment is moving along so well." It is moving better, but I maintain the more significant the disability, The higher the unemployment, and there's an example right there.

I mean, that's absolutely horrible.

Here's your example, Joyce.

Yeah, Chris, what do you have to say about that?

Yeah, you know, you know what's really startling to me about that is that 70% unemployed in that particular group of people with disabilities, yet I would venture to guess I'm not— I don't have statistics on this, that they are the most highly educated of all the disability groups, if you take us as different groups. Because of technology changes over the years, this is a group of people that have gone on to higher ed. They have incredible skills. There are tons of lawyers who are blind. There are tons of Teachers who are blind, professors, they're in every profession there is, and yet the fact that this society still believes somehow they can't do the job because they can't see is just ridiculous. There's so much great technology out there that makes sight not relevant anymore when it comes to actually doing a job. It's despicable, and it's frustrating to hear it.

Yeah. Is that 70% of people who are blind and vision impaired, or what is that? What did you say, Perry?

So, the statistics from Cornell say that these are working-age adults who report significant vision loss.

Yeah, yeah. So, it's everything.

And when is that from? When is that from?

That is, uh, the data from Cornell. I think it's from 2016.

Wow. I mean, that, that is terrible. That is really terrible. Um, well, I wish I could say, oh, that's much, you know, moving along at a higher rate, but as I said The more significant the disability, the harder it is to gain employment. One of my employees in HR, Jill Zomp, her husband is blind, and she tells the story because he has an excellent background and just as Chris said, college degree with great grades in computer science. He would send in the resume and, oh yes, we want to meet you. And he would walk in, and she said she used to give him the code by tapping him on the shoulder. Uh, she knew just what Chris said about the way people looked at you, Chris, that you knew, uh, how it was going to be. She knew he wasn't going to move any further, and he didn't. And this went on for like 10 years, uh, and then he met me. And that's why Jill told me she loves working here because it changes an entire family's life. But, but that is really terrible. That is terrible. My next question is, Perry, what about, like you were talking about digital accessibility, what's going on with Section 508? What I guess what I'm saying is why How can companies move forward without having their website accessible?

So I think it has to do with some confusion on the part of how the ADA covers website accessibility. None of us in the disability are confused about it, but certainly companies and others will point at guidance and regulations from the DOJ or the Access Board and say that, you know, it's not clear. And I do know this administration is trying to correct that, and we will probably have information on that in an upcoming segment.

Okay. Well, they're going to have a huge lobbying against that. From, and sadly, from corporate America. But Perry, thank you so much for that great information, and I will look forward to talking to you next week.

Thanks, Joyce Bender. Thanks, Perry.

Chris, you talked about being an EEOC commissioner, but you are nominated again by, uh, for a presidential position by President Obama. Could you talk about that?

So while at the EEOC, I created a program with my staff. I had great staff, and we created a program called LEAD, Leadership for Employment of Americans with Disabilities. The focus of that program was to increase employment of people with disabilities in the federal government. And I, you know, because I often thought You know, here's the federal government telling everyone else what to do when, in fact, our own house wasn't in order. So we worked on that and to, you know, spread the word, increase awareness, and hope that one day a president would sign an executive order. And, in fact, I often said while in my position at EEOC that I thought Office of Personnel Management was really the agency where a lot of things could be corrected that would increase employment of people with disabilities. So I get asked by the Obama administration when he became president, um, uh, the other Democrat at EEOC, Stuart Ishimaru, and myself were elevated to the leadership positions. And they called one day and said, you know, we heard you criticize the Office of Personnel Management about disability and diversity in the federal government, and would you be willing to go over there as Deputy Director? I said, I would love to if I can work on those issues. And they said, absolutely. So, I was nominated by President Obama to become the Deputy Director of the Office of Personnel Management, and that was another Senate-confirmed position. And I went through that process and, and, landed over there and was able to do a couple of really great things that I enjoyed working on. One was getting the President to sign an executive order to increase employment of people with disabilities and veterans with disabilities in the federal government and increase it by 100,000 people in over 5 years. That was one of the things. The other big project we worked on was to create, believe it or not, for the first time ever, an Office of Diversity and Inclusion within the Office of Personnel Management, who had never had an Office of Diversity and Inclusion. You would think the federal government would have something like that. And in fact, some agencies had their own diversity and inclusion offices, but government-wide, there wasn't one. And so, we created one.

Now, is that where Veronica Villalobos worked?

Yeah, yeah. So I stole— I like to say I stole her. I asked her to come with me to Office of Personnel Management from the EEOC. That's where I got to know her. And I asked her to come over. She came over on a detail for several months, and ultimately OPM hired her. And in fact elevated her to a, to an SES position where she ran the Office of Diversity and Inclusion, a government-wide office. But she helped me create it from really from the ground up, from scratch. We created a plan. We talked to folks at the White House. We came up with a plan. We presented that plan to them, which called for ultimately an executive order signed by the President that would create a more inclusive and diverse office and mechanism by which we could create more diversity and inclusion within the federal government. And that office was created. We developed— we did a lot of work on this. In fact, We spent 2 years working on this. We developed a government-wide task force on this. We brought in experts from corporate America to talk to us. We really did our homework and developed a great plan. And ultimately, the president signed an executive order to increase diversity and inclusion in the federal government, but also to create that office at OPM. So, Veronica Villalobos played a huge part in making that happen. I could not have done it without her.

Well, see, we have something else in common. I know you recruited her from EEOC, and I recruited her from OPM to the best city in America, and that is, of course, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, at AHN, owned by Highmark And let me tell you, no surprise to you, she is doing a great, great job there. And I know she'll love hearing this show. She, she is amazing. Well, she is. Yes, she is brilliant. Well, it's time for What's Going On at Bender, which we have now every week. And I see we have Gerald on the line. Gerald Homi, welcome.

Hi Joyce, hi Chris. Thank you so much for letting me call into the show. How are you, Chris?

Good, how are you, Gerald?

Oh, I am so fantastic. And today's all about Chris because our call-in today, I want to talk about Chris and the amazing work Chris and Joyce Bender is doing here helping nonprofits really engage with their executive leadership by hiring people with disabilities to lead organizations, which is just amazing, the work you two are doing, really standing out as the premier search firm, the premier talent firm to find and get people with disabilities to lead organizations about people with disabilities. I mean, this is the definition of Nothing about us without us. You've got people with disabilities leading the search to find great people with disabilities. And, I mean, you can't beat the reputation of Chris Griffin and Joyce Bender with all that they've done in their amazing careers in disability rights and employment. You know, if you're an organization out there and you've got an executive role that you need to fill and you want to make sure that you've got talent with disabilities secured in that role, reach out to Chris— reach out to her at cgriffin@benderconsult.com to make sure you can engage with talent to fill those roles. And if you're a person with a disability looking for a career and looking for a role in a senior executive leadership in America, in this space, the nonprofit space, make sure you're connecting with Chris Griffin to hear about what amazing roles we're trying to fill in this avenue because there's nothing like this being done today, but other than the work that Joyce Bender Chris is doing, and it's just really, really incredible.

Yes, and may I add to that, that at Bender, I do not do that part of the business. Chris heads that part up. So Chris goes across America and does retained search for not-for-profits looking for the executive director or CEO, and Chris, what is one of our rules?

One of our rules? Well, our main rule is that you have to commit to hiring a person with a disability or we won't work with you.

That's it. That's it.

That's it.

I hope you heard that. That's it. You have to have a disability. You have to be willing to hire a person with a disability or we're not going to, we're not going to work on it. We're not going to work on it because that is not what we're all about. Chris, Could you give us an example of like some of the searches and size of the organizations?

Yep, yep. So recently, we've— most recently, I just filled the executive director position at Disability Rights Washington, which is the protection advocacy agency for the state of Washington. Prior to that, the National Disability Rights Network the largest network of legally based organizations that protect the rights of people with disabilities across the country. There's a Protection and Advocacy agency in every state and territory. There are 57 of them total, and the National Disability Rights Network is the membership organization that they all belong to and the organization that provides them with training and technical expertise on disability— on a variety of disability rights laws and issues. So we filled that position. Also recently, the Association of Programs for Rural Independent Living Centers, that was— we just finished that in June. And wonderful executive director position A guy named Brandon Brown took that position. He's an incredible disability rights advocate. He came from an ILC in Tennessee, and he is now running APRL. Let's see, the California Foundation for Independent Living Centers, that's the state membership organization for all the ILCs in California. The Bronx Independent Living Center, Independent Living Services, BILS. I just filled that position. So there's just been a number of organizations that we've worked with. And again, I got to tell you, I love working with the ILCs. The ILCs, you know, they come to you because they know they want to hire a person with a disability. Some of the other organizations, and frankly, even some of the P&As, you have to have this discussion with them. And I think to myself, God, we're in 2023. If you're a disability organization, your focus is on providing services or advocacy for people with disabilities, you have advisory councils made up of people with disabilities, in this day and age, you have to be run by a person with a disability. I mean, it's just unconscionable if you aren't. And the fact that we even— Joyce, you and I have had these conversations with disability organizations who have been horrible whether they want to limit their search to a person with a disability. And I just— it's shameful, frankly. It's shameful. But again, I love the ILCs because you never even have to have that discussion with them. They come right to the table knowing that they want an executive with a disability to run their organization.. And I just find them easier to work with than any other client. So I love the ILCs, and I love the P&As. I've been a part of that system most of my legal career. And so, you know, I think that's why it hurts me even more when I get a— find a P&A that doesn't hire a person with a disability, because I really, you know, I feel like I failed.

Well, you didn't feel, but that is— that's why, Chris, you work for the Law Center in Boston, which is— so you have that in your background. So listen, if you're— I just thought about— oh, and by the way, she found the CEO of WID, the World Institute on Disability. And I just had a— Marcy Roth, I just had a board meeting today, and you also found that. And are you not right now looking for people with a policy background?

Yeah, so right now I am looking, but there's two positions open at AAPD, American Association of People with Disabilities. One is the chief operating officer. We're getting close. That's— we're getting near the end of that search. But the one that's wide open and recently posted, you can see it on AAPD's website, site is the Vice President of Disability Policy. So, that's a tremendous position for someone with a disability who has got experience doing policy work, especially someone who is in the healthcare Medicaid-related policy work, maybe worked on the Hill, maybe worked for other health organizations. But a person with a disability who has that background should apply for that job, and that is wide open. We just began the search, so please take a look at AAPD.com. AAPD.com is— and you can see that position description there. Or you can email me and I can send it to you.

So, yeah, okay, well, If also a not-for-profit is listening, how do they get in touch with you? If someone's listening and they say, oh yeah, because you know what, anyone listening to the show, if you're thinking, oh wow, this is— I should— I know so-and-so is looking for an executive director, send them this podcast.

Wow. Yeah.

As I thought about it, what great information this is. But if someone is listening and they're looking for someone, what should they do?

They should contact me at cgriffin, cgriffin@benderconsult.com, or they can call me on my cell and I'll give that out, 978-609-2516. 978-609-2516. 609-2516. Give me a call and tell me what you're looking for, and I can tell you about the process we use, the fee that we charge, and how we go about finding you the perfect candidate for your position.

Well, Chris, I really appreciate you being with us today, and I want to repeat, share this with someone. Share this podcast, because that's how you can help to make sure executive-level positions are filled by Americans with disabilities. Chris, thank you again.

Hey Joyce, before you go, can I just tell you, can I clarify that Michael Fox saying, because I just love it, gratitude makes optimism sustainable. Sustainable. Gratitude makes optimism sustainable. I love that. It's perfect.

Well, guess what? That's going to be our quote for the day. And with that, this is Joyce Bender, America's Voice at VoiceAmerica.com. Talk to you next week. And in Mary Brooker's words, choose joy.

Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific time and 2 PM Eastern time for another installment of Disability Matters right here on the Voice America variety channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.