Commemorating the 31st Anniversary of ADA!

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Hi everyone, and here we are ending the great Disability Pride Month. So exciting! Oh my goodness, so many great things happened this week, and I love it when you hear who our guest is. First, a special shout out to Richard Roberts in Okinawa, Gangyang in South Korea, Venyamin in Kazakhstan, and Cheryl Harris in Tunisia. These are my friends from the State Department that when I traveled around the world I met. They're wonderful and they're all disability advocates. And Yoshiko Dart, wow, is this your month, Yoshiko? You're gonna love this show, Yoshiko, you're gonna love it. And thank you, Highmark, what a great sponsor Highmark is and has been of this show for years. So I can barely stand it, okay? I am so excited because my guest is Tony Coelho, former congressman, statesman, and author of the Americans with Disabilities Act. He is so awesome. I love him so much. Tony, welcome to the show.

Thank you, Joyce Bender. The feeling's mutual, as you know.

Yes, well, I love you so much. Okay, so Tony, this year, 31st anniversary of the ADA. I know every year this day is so special to you. Every year. Since we have listeners around the world, Would you mind telling your story of what led you to, you know, this great law, how this started in your life?

I'm happy to, Joyce. I know that some of your listeners are repeaters and they'll have heard the story, but let me spell it out again for the new listeners that you have, which I know—

Excuse me, I've heard this story for over 30 years.— and I love to hear it every time, so go ahead, go ahead.

Thank you, thank you, Joyce Bender. When I was around 16, I had an automobile accident on my family's dairy farm in Central California. I hit my head, totaled the pickup that we were in, but I didn't have any other pain. That was it. A year later, I was in the barn milking and All of a sudden, I woke up in bed and I had had a grand mal seizure and my brother had carried me into the house. The doctor was there and he was talking to my parents. I could hear them, but I couldn't talk. Afterwards, I asked what had gone on. My parents said, well, the doctor didn't know. That I would have to go to some other doctors, blah, blah, blah. So I went to 3 other doctors. They supposedly all didn't know. What I didn't know until much later is that all these doctors were telling my parents that I had epilepsy, that I just had a seizure, and that I more than likely had epilepsy. Uh, the other doctors confirmed that, but I was never told that. The reason I wasn't told is that My parents, being devout Catholics and of Portuguese ancestry, believed that if you had epilepsy, you were possessed by the devil. Now, I didn't know any of that, so it didn't impact me. I continued having my seizures. After the doctors who couldn't find the problem, I then started going to witch doctors, and that was an eerie experience for somebody 16, 17 years old, they would take you into a room, darken it, have candles lit, pour hot oil on your forehead, on your chest, and then say prayers and drive the evil spirits out. Well, it didn't work. And the third one, by the way, was kind of interesting. The individual said, put a raw egg under your armpit hold it there for an hour. If it turns black, that means the spirits have left. Well, the eggs didn't turn any color at all, and that was the one— that was the one I said, I'm not doing this anymore. My parents were very upset, but I said enough is enough. And so I continued having these passing out spells. My high school superintendent suggests that I get out of the area and go to college somewhere else, and I decide to go to Loyola University in Los Angeles. I continued having my passing out spells. I was very active, enjoyed school and so forth. And then President Kennedy got assassinated, and I was in my senior year at the time. And it really had an impact on me. I decided as a result of that, instead of pursuing being a trial lawyer, I decided that I wanted to do something public service-wise, help people and so on. I ultimately decided to become a Catholic priest. I was at a Jesuit university, and the Jesuits are known to be the intellectual scholars of the Catholic Church, and I wanted to join them.— and I was very, very pro, and I am still very pro the Jesuits and a devout Catholic. But I went to get my physical— oh, the Jesuits announced it all, it was a big deal. I went to get my physical and the doctor said, "Have you ever heard the word epilepsy?" And I said, "No." And he says, "Well, as a result of our test, that's what you have." And he said, um, it's good— he explained to me what it was. I told him about the business with the doctors and, uh, and the witch doctors, and he explained to me what that was all about. He explained to me the problem that people, uh, historically believe that if you have epilepsy, you're possessed. Then he told me, I have the good news and bad news as a result of your designation. The good news is that you're 4F, meaning you can't serve in the military, and that was during Vietnam, so it was significant then. The second is the bad news is that because of your epilepsy, the Catholic Church adopted in 400 AD canon law that says that if you have epilepsy, you're possessed by the devil, you can't be a priest. That hit me really hard. I left the doctor's office, called my parents to tell them the good news and the bad news. My parents said, "No son of ours has epilepsy. Come home. You're with a bunch of crazy people in Los Angeles." Well, there are some interesting people in Los Angeles, but I believe my friends in Los Angeles and the doctor, so I didn't go home. And I then started going to— people had given a lot of job offers, over 60 job offers. So I started going to these places, filled out the application, turned it in. Every one of them had the word epilepsy on it. I marked it, of course. And I never got an interview. And I started to realize that what was going on is that because of my checking the box on epilepsy, I was not getting an interview. Then I realized that— I thought that my family had turned against me. I thought that God and my church had turned against me. I became very depressed, drank a lot, was drunk by 2 o'clock in the afternoon on a hill in Griffith Park in Los Angeles. And the day that I decided to commit suicide, I was in bad shape. I felt I'd lost everything. I heard a voice and it said to me that you're going to be just like those little kids on the bottom of this hill who are getting off and on the merry-go-round, and you're going to be just like them. You're never going to let anything or anybody stop you from what you're wanting to do. I immediately felt better, never have thought of suicide, never been depressed. I got my, what I call my mojo back. I got the fire in my stomach back. And within a week, I was living with Bob Hope and his family. and who became my mentor. And one day he said to me, he said, "Tony, you feel you have a ministry and it only can be practiced in church. A true ministry is practiced in sports, entertainment, and business, and government. But where you belong is in politics." Now, Bob Hope was a conservative Republican. I'm a moderate to liberal Democrat. And— but him telling me that had a huge impact. I wrote a letter to my congressman, who I didn't know. Long story short, I got the job, went to work with him as someone knowledgeable in agriculture. And I ended up becoming his chief of staff., and I was, I was in seventh heaven. This is really what I wanted to do. I was helping people out. I was fulfilling every dream I had. When he decided to leave, to retire, asked me to take his place. I did. Um, in that campaign, my opponent said that, uh, to a large group one night, said that Tony's a very sick man. Um, I don't know if you know it or not, he has epilepsy. What would you think if he went to the White House to argue a critical issue for us? Central California, that would be water. Argue a very critical issue for us and had a seizure. Well, several people at that dinner were very upset, called me and said, very upset with my opponent and wanted to support me and so forth. And then I get a call from a reporter saying, I understand that your opponent last night said X., but your reaction. And the good Lord was with me. I said, well, you know, in the 13 years I was a staffer in Congress, I saw and knew a lot of people who went to the White House and argued and had fits. And at least I'd have an excuse. And nobody ever brought up my epilepsy after that. It had And as a matter of fact, People Magazine featured it in one of their articles, what I said and my background. But after that, I then decided that I had to do something in regards to disabilities. I was offering amendments, but I realized that those of us with disabilities did not have our basic civil rights. And people of color got theirs in the '60s, women got theirs in the '70s. People— gays got theirs after that, but we had never gotten ours. So I started thinking of writing a law that gave people with disabilities their civil rights, and that ended up being the ADA. And I introduced it in the House, and within 2 years it got passed by the Congress signed by President H.W. Bush, Papa Bush as I call him, and that has become the law of the land. And yesterday was our 31st anniversary of that law, and President Biden was tremendously gracious in signing a proclamation in regards to that at a ceremony at the White House, which I participated in, and then had a meeting with the President afterwards. So it was a very exciting day, Joyce Bender, and it is more than a birthday to me every year because it fulfilled all my dreams. It fulfilled my goal and desire for ministry, my passion, and at— I'm just about 80, and the fire is still in the belly. I haven't lost it at all. I'm determined to make a difference and have over the years worked hard to try to make a difference.

Well, Tony, you do have the fire in your belly and you will not stop ever. I know you. So, you know, I'm just so proud to have known you all these years. And I just want everyone to know Tony is the real deal. He can meet someone. I've seen him somewhere, a young person that says, oh, I wanted to meet you. I have epilepsy. He is not one of these people that, okay, fine, you know, call so-and-so and we'll get in touch with you. He'll stop and talk to that person. He'll take an interest in that person. And keep in mind, just like me, I'm living with epilepsy. So, Law of the Land, authored by a person with epilepsy, couldn't be better than that. Hey, we have a caller on the line. Is Susan on the line?

Hey Joyce, yes I am.

Hi Susan, how are you?

Hello, how are you?

Hi Tony.

Hi Susan, how are you today?

I am great, I am great. As you know, I was recently selected as the new board chair for AAPD and I am super excited. I know. Yes, I know you know, I'm super excited and it is just a thrill to be telling you this, right? Because it's really part of your legacy and part of what you've done to make a difference. And the organization is just doing really well, right? It's in a great track, great trajectory to continue doing great work in the disability community, helping young people, leadership training, all different kinds of opportunities, helping people get registered to vote, just things that are so important to empower the community. And you just— keep the community coming along. And we're all different in the community, right? There's so many different types of disabilities, but at the end of the day, it's about civil rights. And that's, you know, that's exactly what you have always been talking about. It's about civil rights.

That's right, Susan. And it's kind of interesting that AAPD has celebrated its anniversary over 20 years.. And I remember with Bob Doe and others that we started that, and little did I know that it would turn into the organization that it's turned into. It is profitable. It reaches so many different people of all disabilities. It's the umbrella organization for all disabilities. And Maria Towns is the new president/CEO. She does a fantastic job. Susan, you've taken over for Teddy Kennedy as chair of the board, and all of us who are chair— I was chair for a time— all of us who are chair have disabilities. So, your disability is different than mine. Mine is different than Ted Kennedy's. Mine is different than Joyce Bender's, who was chairman as well. So, that's what this organization is about. You're going to do a tremendous job. I— you are my candidate for chair. I love you, and I just appreciate everything that you've done over the years representing AT&T in Washington and making sure that AT&T understands those of us with disabilities and supports those of us with disabilities. You've been the leader in that, so I love you for that, and I appreciate all that you've done.

Well, thank you. Thank you. It's going to be interesting following up Ted Kennedy as board chair. He was tremendously impactful. But the organization is in a great place. We've got our work cut out for us. You mentioned all of us— disability is different for different people. And so my disability, mental health, depression, I am— I wouldn't say excited, but I'm optimistic about sharing this with people, which I really had not done at all before a couple of years ago. And so I'm very optimistic about being more transparent and being able to share this and just talk about it more so that mental health disabilities are truly seen as disability in the workplace and beyond. And so I think there's still some there's a misunderstanding around anxiety, depression, and other mental health issues. And I think we have a great opportunity to bring a little bit more clarity to that and bring those that are dealing with mental health issues kind of under the umbrella a little bit and sort of make sure that they are represented as well.

So, Susan, one of the great things about what you're doing is that you're like so many others that have been reluctant to acknowledge their disability because of some of the problems that you face when you do. People treat you differently. People— it's impactful in regards to business and so forth. AT&T is great to have you, and they're supportive, but so many other organizations aren't, and so people are reluctant. More and more people are coming out talking about their disability, and I feel strongly that One of the things that we have to do, those of us with disabilities, is to embrace our disability, to talk about how it's changed you into a better person, which disability has changed me into being a better person. And we need to fight for our rights and be proud of who we are and what we are and what we stand for. So I love the fact that you are disclosing I love the fact that you're acknowledging that your mental health is something that you are proud of and that you are handling. It's exactly, exactly what AAPD or the whole disability community needs at this time, so I applaud you for that.

Thank you.

And you know what, I just want to say again, Susan Diegelman is just took over. She's our new board chair. She is awesome. She is going to make a change nationally in mental health, and she is joining the trio of female board chairs: Susan Joyce Bender and Cheryl Sensenbrenner. And Susan, I am thrilled you're the chair. Uh, once again, hey, AAPD.com. Susan Digelman, our new board chair. Make sure you get in touch with us, uh, and feel free to make a donation today. Thank you so much, Susan, for calling in.

All right, I'll talk to you later. Take care.

All right, have a great day. I am so excited, Tony, that she's going to be our board chair. She's going to do a great job. She, she really is. I and very excited, as you said, so she's talking about it. But I want to ask you a question.

Well, the thing is, Joyce Bender, with AT&T, that can set an example for a lot of other companies to get on board to help out our community, to help out in mental health, but on all disabilities. So I think It's fabulous that Susan has desired to become board chair, and then I know she's going to do a good job. So I'm excited about it.

I am too. Tony, you know, as we were saying, you and I both live with epilepsy, but as you mentioned, our epilepsy is different. When you were growing up, Tony, were you ever ashamed about your epilepsy?

Well, Joyce Bender, when I was growing up, I had my seizures. I didn't know what they were. I referred to them as passing out spells. I would pass out, but then I'd be able to continue milking cows. And I was in high school, and I was very active in student government, ended up being student body president, then went away to college. I'd have my passing out spells there, but I did well in school and I was student vice president there as well. So the passing out spells, I was concerned about what they were, but there were no negatives because I could do everything else, you know. And, but what hit me so hard is when I got rejected from the priesthood. To me, as a devout Catholic then and still today, to have what I felt was God and the Church reject me was really hard. So I did have a real problem with it, and that's why I became depressed. That's why I was suicidal, because of the rejection, and not so much about epilepsy, but just the rejection by family, church, business, because I had this disorder. But after I heard that voice, I got my mojo back. I That fire in my belly was there until the rejection, and it was snuffed out, but I got it right back, and it has never stopped. So I can't say— there was a short period of time where I felt sorry for myself. I felt embarrassed that I couldn't be a priest, and— and I was in a real dark place during that period of time. But other than that, no. And I think at this point, Joyce, I'd like to tell a little story because I think there are some people that are on the line wondering about what I just said. Yes, I am still a devout Catholic. When I was in Congress and I was Majority Whip, I got to take a delegation with me to foreign countries. As a Portuguese American, I wanted to go to Portugal, of course, the highest-ranking Portuguese American in the history of the country, and I knew it would be a state visit with state dinner and all those razzmatazz that goes with it. But I was very proud of my Portuguese background and so forth. And the church then— I mean, excuse me, the State Department then wanted me to go to Morocco and meet with the King of Morocco in regards to some issues that the King and the Portuguese government were doing in regards to the Middle East and to take some information with me. I was happy to do that. And I got to pick the third country. And probably to no surprise of some of you on the line, I decided I wanted to go to the Vatican and meet with the Pope. And the State Department arranged that. So our group landed in— at the Vatican or Rome. And the Vatican is a separate country, as most people know. But then I— We went to the Vatican and we were sitting down, the Pope walked in, and we all stood up, of course. He sat down, and then I have a very strong view that when you have the podium, you should speak the truth. Now, podium doesn't have to be a wooden pedestal or whatever. It can be whenever you have control of an audience, in effect. And so, I read a very boring, pre-approved speech that the State Department and the Vatican had agreed upon. It was awful, by the way. It said nothing. But I read it. At the end of that very boring speech, I said, "Your Holiness, I could not live with myself if I didn't say something personal. As a young man, I decided I wanted to become a Catholic priest." I was denied entry because canon law established in 400 AD said if you had epilepsy or possessed by the devil, you can't be a priest. I think that's very unchristian of our church, and I would hope that you would look into it. End of statement. I sat down. He then spoke— Pope John Paul, who is now a saint, by the way. He then spoke and read a very boring pre-approved speech by the Vatican and the State Department. And when he got through, he— we then took a bunch of pictures with him. $5 a photo they charged, and we bought lots of them. I have them here. I have a great photo of me speaking to the Pope at that particular time. And so when we finished, my wife and I walked him to the door. He was holding her hand. We got to the door, he blessed her and then turned to me and did not bless me. That was a pathway. If the Pope doesn't bless you, ah, that's a bad sign. Um, but then he said to me, he said, "Young man, I heard your comments." And he turned around and walked away. Now, I was befuddled because he hadn't blessed me. His comments seemed nice, but he hadn't blessed me. So, um, but I left. I was— I met with him and said what I felt. I feel that you should speak truth to power. So I did it, and the rest of the trip went well. Two years later, canon law was changed. To get individuals with epilepsy to become priests. Now, I'm very, very absolute about this. Nobody ever called me to say that they were doing it. Nobody ever called me and said they did it. Um, but I really believe that what I did was right, that I know I did it, and hopefully it probably had an impact on the church and changed it, because Pope John Paul was very pro-disability, and he probably said, what the heck is going on here? But anyway, I just wanted to let people know that my devotion to the church is still very much there.

Well, I know that, and you know, Tony, it had to be that. It had to have had that impact, because let us face it, people are not going to go to the Pope and talk about epilepsy. So I would absolutely think that that was the impact that you had. So many things. I could go on forever about so many things you've done. And, you know, you just continue, continue doing it. I always tell Tony, I'm following him wherever he goes. I'm following him. But you know what? I wasn't with you yesterday, though. And I want you to tell everyone about yesterday because just to set the stage here, remember what I told you, Tony was the author of the Americans with Disabilities Act, Congressman, whipping Congress, therefore he knew Senator Biden, who is now the President. But I thought it was really great what he did yesterday. And of course, we've all seen the photos, but could you talk about yesterday? You know, what, how you were there and how the president was about the ADA and share that with our listeners?

Yes, Joyce Bender. It was interesting that during the campaign, I was very aggressive with the Biden campaign about him acknowledging his disability, which is stutter. And, and we had trouble because professionals in the political business felt that that would be a negative. I felt strongly that candidate Biden at the time would stutter, and people thought that there was something mentally wrong with him, etc. And the Republicans used that against him. Quite a few times, and I felt that the truth would be helpful to him. And I argued it aggressively with staff and sent the president notes, or the president candidate notes. And so I get a call one day from his senior staffer and said, are you watching the convention? I said, yes. He said, well, face pay special attention tomorrow. And what happened is that the next day, as most of your listeners know, a young man who stutters talked about his having the same situation as the president and how the president has reached out to him and helped him in regards to his stutter. And that changed dramatically a lot of stuff. And so yesterday, the— I had a mask that talked about these with a picture of Biden with his dark glasses on and said, I don't know the exact words. Wait a minute, I do know because I have it right here. It's these glasses. It said, but, but in the end, America chose the boy who stuttered over the bully. And I showed that to the President, and he started laughing, and he said, "Yeah, you were there at the critical time. I know that." But yesterday, I got a call saying that the President was going to do the proclamation, and they wanted me there. I was appreciative of that. Then the day before I went on Saturday, I got a call saying the President would like you on the podium with him. Would you be willing? And of course I said yes. And so I get there, and the President gives— the Vice President gives her speech first. She acknowledged me with the ADA, of course, and then the President gave his speech, again acknowledging Bob Dole and others and myself. And then he's ready to sign the proclamation, and he says, you know, the Speaker was there, "Ben Speaker, come on up," and Steny Hoyer, the Majority Leader, "Come on up," and he says, "And Tony, you belong up here more than anybody." 'Come on up.' So, and he says to me when I get up there, he says, 'Stand behind me because you deserve, uh, you deserve it. We wouldn't all be here if it wasn't for you.' So, you know, what a— you know, it made me feel wonderful, I have to admit, um, the acknowledgment of that. Um, and he signed it, and after he signed it, he gave me the pen that he signed the proclamation with. Now, of course, I intend to keep that and attach it to a picture that I can hang on the wall with the proclamation, because I feel so strong about it, and I love the guy, and I love the way he has accepted his disability and how he feels so strongly about changing things, and after it was over with, he asked me to come to the Oval Office. He wanted to talk to me. Um, so I went, and on the way there, he commented about the mask and so forth. And we go into the presidential office, and the Oval Office, as we call it, and I was the speaker, uh, Vice President, um, Leader Hoyer, Senator Bob Casey from Pennsylvania and myself. And it was a wonderful meeting for about 25 minutes, all about disability, all about some of the concerns that we have and things that need to be done. And I suggested some things which I'm not— I don't think it's appropriate for me to discuss here, but it was a wonderful meeting. On the way out in the hall leading to his office, he stopped at a table that had a picture of his son, Beau, and a memorial that had been set up for him. And he pointed it out to me, and he said to me, he said, Beau should be here instead of me. And that's something that he always wanted, was Beau to be president, and said he wouldn't run until Beau, on his deathbed, asked him to take his— to run for president, that he felt that that would be the right thing to do. And I acknowledged that when he said that to me. So it was a very personal, wonderful day a person with a disability is President of the United States, acknowledging the anniversary of the ADA and being so kind to me and what I did to bring the ADA forward. So a very blessed day for me, Joyce.

Well, you know what, I only have one word that could possibly cover all of that, and it's wow. Wow, that is amazing. Well, we have a couple callers on the line here. Karen, are you on the line, Karen?

Yes, I am on the line. I am. This is Karen Akosi. I'm a board member of epilepsy— Hi, Tony, how are you? I'm a member of Epilepsy Alliance America. And I want to say that I actually saw Tony on the television and I was beside myself, having known him for so many years and what an amazing advocate he's been for epilepsy and people with disabilities. And I was just so excited to see him there and knowing that our president is a kind and gentle person and understands disabilities.. And it was just fabulous. I wanted to jump into the television and give Tony a hug because I was so proud. Tony and actually Joyce Bender, you as well, have been amazing advocates for people with epilepsy all through my tenure. And I can't be prouder than knowing both of you and actually seeing Tony on the television was very exciting to me, and just hearing the rest of the story right now on the show just goes par for the course because both our president and Tony are warm and caring people, and having Tony there to speak on behalf of people with disability is a blessing. So I want to echo Joyce's wow because I think it's amazing and very proud of you, Tony. Thank you. Thank you for all you've done and all you do and all you will continue to do.

Thank you, Karen. Love you. Appreciate it very much.

This is Karen Igozi. She's with the Epilepsy Alliance, but she's also with her affiliate in Florida. And I just want to say, Karen, feeling is mutual. I respect you. I've known you for a long time. And you keep on fighting that fight for those of us living with epilepsy.

Well, thank you. As long as I have the two of you by my side, I'll keep doing that.

All right, Karen.

We're there.

We're there. Yeah, we are there. Okay. Wow. This is Tony's day. We have another caller on the line. Peggy, or is that you, Peggy, on the line?

I'm here, Joyce. Hello, Peggy Bender. Nice to talk with you. Hi, Tony, how are you? Great, great. I actually was calling in, Tony, to ask you if you would talk about your day yesterday because I had the great fortune to see some of the news coverage as Karen was talking about, and I wanted to hear all about it. So I was I'm so happy to hear you give us so much detail. That was really wonderful to hear all about the day yesterday. And just, you know, as Karen was saying, say thank you to you. I don't think you really understand sometimes how important that is for those of us who are out here advocating. And, you know, the last 4 years have been so exhausting in so many ways for so many people, and yesterday was It was just such an amazingly motivating day to see you and to see President Biden and Vice President Harris and just see leaders at that level talking about disabilities and giving so much attention to the ADA. It was just amazing. It was just a remarkable day, and I just feel so blessed to have known you all these years and to have benefited from your leadership. So I just wanted to selfishly hear more about your day yesterday and also just call in and say thank you so much and just let you know how much we love you here in Pennsylvania. And thank you, thank you, thank you for everything you do for us.

Thank you, Peggy. I want to make a comment. I don't want to be political, and I'll say why in a moment. But it was great for those of us with disabilities to have a president applaud us and thank us and make us feel like everybody else, as opposed to the last president we had who made fun of those of us with disabilities. And— but I want you to know that at that event yesterday was the minority leader of the House, Kevin McCarthy. And he came up to me and introduced me. I had not met him before. And he said, "I just want you to know that I personally appreciate what you've done on the ADA, and ADA is a bipartisan issue." But he personally was there. So that was a great acknowledgment, and I respect him for being there. And press was on him about a lot of things, and he knew they would be, but the mere fact that he was there was tremendous, and I loved him for it.

Well, that's, that's absolutely good to know.

I appreciate, but I appreciate your comments very much, Peggy. Love you. We've known each other for so many years, so love what you've done for the folks in Western Pennsylvania in regards to their epilepsy. You're a wonderful advocate and I love you for it.

Well, thank you. Hope you have a time to come visit us sometime soon and hope you continue to be well.

He will because I happen to know the chair of the board, so I'm sure we'll be able to get him here, Peggy.

That's awesome. Our board chair.

Yeah, okay, well, I'm proud to be the board chair and I love you, Peggy, and thank you.

Love you too, Joyce. Thanks so much.

Sure, bye-bye. Uh, whoa, Tony, you're getting these affiliates calling in. So, and you know why that is? Because Tony was always seen as such a great advocate and he is such an advocate. I do have a question I want to talk to you because of when you were talking about politics. My question is, do you think, Tony, that today in our world today that we could have got the ADA passed?

No. And that's a sad thing. Yeah. It— the House of Representatives Just a few years ago, when it was under Republican control, they adopted legislation that would have gutted the ADA. Fortunately, in the Senate, it was killed and didn't get anywhere. It won't go anywhere now with the House and the Senate under Democratic control and with the president. He would veto it. But it's in a precarious situation in that there are people who are adamantly opposed to the ADA because, in their view, what it does to businesses and so forth. I take the opposite view, of course. I say that The more you have curb cuts, the more you have phones accessible, the more you have the internet accessible, the more you have transportation accessible, it helps everybody. Getting the curb cuts— who uses the curb cuts? People just assume that they've always been there. But who uses these curb cuts? It's mothers and fathers with their babies in strollers. It's delivery men and women taking goods to all the stores on the streets. It's people that have to use a phone, they can have the volume turned up and so forth. It's people who use Apple products. All Apple products are accessible. So it is— So much has changed as a result of it, and it's continuing to change. Over 50 countries throughout the world have adopted a version of the ADA. And so, it is something that has changed the lives of people and made those of us with disabilities to participate in society like everybody else. A lot more needs to be done. I know that. The fact is that over these 30 years, there have been major changes, and a lot of people, young people, come up to me all the time and say, "Look, we've never lived at a time when the ADA wasn't the law. We don't know what it was like, what you and others went through before the ADA was passed, and we thank you for it." But it is true, we've gotten accustomed to a lot of the the accessibilities that have been put in place, the accommodations that people can insist upon having if they're in the workforce. All those things that have changed, and it's sad that people don't accept that today and are willing to not support or willing to try to kill the ADA. My gut is that it won't be killed. There's too much support for it across the country, and as I say, throughout the world, but across the country, that it could not be stopped. And that's a good thing. But in answer to your question, very definitely no.

That's so sad, isn't it? That is so sad. That is real. Well, Tony, it has done so many great things, as you said, but we still have a few things we have to achieve. One of them is employment. Do you want— I know that is your heart and soul. Do you want to talk about that for a minute before we end the show today?

Well, the ADA is a civil rights law. It is not a law that prescribes that somebody has to employ people with disabilities. But what it does say is you can't discriminate against people with disabilities in regards to employment. So what does that mean? That means that it's important that the President of the United States, who appoints the Attorney General, who then appoints the head of the Civil Rights Division of the Justice Department, that the law is enforced. Under Barack Obama, we had Tom Perez, who was the head of the Civil Rights Division, and we now have Christine Clark, who is going to be as good as Tom, if not better, and enforcing it so that the law is on the books. You can't discriminate You got to provide access. And so, it's the enforcement that's critical. And so, with this administration and with Christine, we're going to be able to go after companies, whatever, city governments, county governments, state governments who discriminate against people with disabilities. As a matter of fact, I strongly believe that a lot of the Voting Act the amendments that have been adopted across the country discriminating against people, discriminating against those of us with disabilities, discriminating against our right to vote and access to voting. And I would hope that the President would end up doing something about that because I think we can. So, there's so much more to be done that can be done. Jobs is critical, and Joyce Bender, I know your audience knows, I hope they all know, that the role that you play in placing people with disabilities in jobs, and not charitable jobs, real working jobs that everybody else does, that we can do as well as anybody else.. And with our passion and desire to have a job and to pay taxes, I told the last 6 presidents that there's only one group in society that I know that is willing to pay taxes, wants to pay taxes, and that's those of us with disability. Because if we're paying taxes, that means we have a job. That means we have a right to participate in society like everybody else. That means we have the opportunity to own a home, rent a home, get a car, take care of our families, and so forth. It is so important to us to have a job. And the other thing is, is that people who employ those of us with disabilities realize how good of an employee we are. We want the job, we'll keep the job, we'll be there, we'll be able to do the work, and with great ability, and so forth. So we encourage employers to reach out and hire people with disabilities, and they'll find out what they've been missing because they haven't done it. And those of you on the line, I know, are all part of Joyce Bender's family and so forth—business family. But I hope you tell others just how good it is to employ people with disabilities so that we can turn this around, the unemployment rate for those of us with disabilities. Is awful, and if you're a person of color, it's even worse. Those of us with disabilities who are colored. So it's something that, you know, I'm passionate about, Joyce, and I applaud you for what you've done, but it's one of the big things that we need to change and so forth.

Well, just as you said, Tony, people of color, and you yourself are Latino background, so people of color, people who are Black, just as you said, for that group of people, they are even lower, you know, people with disabilities, people of color, and people who are Black, minority groups, it's even worse. So, you know, I really I really hope we start to see that change with your leadership in this country, because I can tell all of you, as I said, Tony is all about employment. I tell everyone his saying, which is, "Give us the right to be fired." Oh, I love that. Tony, we should make a t-shirt that says that. Give us the right to be fired. Give us the right to be fired. And you know, no pity, right, Tony? Equal treatment.

That's right. Well, I think what people know, that when we say give us the right to be fired, that means you have to hire us and we'll prove to you that we shouldn't be fired. But if you don't give us that right to be fired, then we can never succeed. And so that's why that's so important.

Well, I want to say, you know, before we end the show today, Tony, I have such respect for you and the disability community does, and those of us living with epilepsy do. But I want everyone to know, you know, he's known all the past presidents, back to what? You even have met Nixon, right, Tony? Did you meet him?

Yes, yes, I've met with Nixon several times, and he was one who understood disability and was very supportive of me and my efforts. And so every president from Nixon on, I have known and dealt with.

Well, Tony, it was a pleasure having you, but I have to end with with a quote. And yes, this quote is from Tony Cuomo, and it says it all: "Work gives us dignity." And that is so true. Thank you, Tony, for being with us. Love you. And I will look forward to talking to everyone next week. Happy Disability Pride Month. This is Joyce Bender America's Voice: Where Disability Matters at voiceamerica.com. Talk to you next week.

Bye. Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific Time and 2 PM Eastern Time for another installment of Disability Matters right here on the Voice America Variety Channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.