Congressman, Steny Hoyer/Former Congressman, Tony Coelho: The 35th Anniversary of the Signing of the ADA; The Progress That Has Been Made and What Has Not Been Fulfilled

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Hi everyone, welcome to the show. This is Joyce Bender on Disability Matters. First, you know, I always thank you. This show has been on 22 years, and I recently had my 1,000th episode. Oh my God, thank you, Highmark, for being our lead sponsor. Um, I so appreciate— and around the world, thank you, Germany, once again top listeners. Uh, we have 73 countries with listeners. Thank you all so much. And remember, one person in Saudi Arabia, one, still matters. You can make a difference. Yes, you go. Special shout out, Yoshiko Dart, one of your favorite people is my guest today. And may I say, Congressman Steny Hoyer, I have no words to tell you how much I love this man. I want to say first, he is a statesman. We don't have a lot of them, but he's a statesman of the highest quality, a good man, and boy does he care about people with disabilities. You are a champion, Congressman Steny Hoyer. So let's start with hello and welcome.

Well, you're so great to have me on, Joyce Bender. And let me tell you, 1,000th broadcast. That is absolutely amazing, and you're giving good information and hope and possibilities to millions and millions of people around the world, maybe billions. Uh, and, uh, so thank you for all you've done for so many years, uh, to reach out, to lift up, and to make a difference in the lives of so many disability, um, dis— disabled folks in, in in our country and around the world. You're the best.

Well, and of course, I am one of those living with epilepsy and hard of hearing. And every time I see you, I feel happy. Every time. I want to say one other thing before we get going here about Congressman Hoyer. No matter where I am, if he's speaking, no matter where I am, he not only gives me a shout out, what's the first thing he talks about? Employment, employment of people with disabilities. So let's start. How the heck did you get into politics? Why did you get into politics? And you've spent your career in Maryland. Can you talk about this?

Well, you know, I have a— what I think is a little corny story, but absolutely true. And I think probably happened to an awful lot of people my age. Um, Joyce, I went to high school in Maryland and then I went to the University of Maryland, but I wanted to go to Princeton University. I don't know exactly why Princeton was in my mind, uh, but I didn't, uh, have enough money to go to Princeton. As a matter of fact, I had very little money at all. And, uh, so I quote, ended up going to the University of Maryland. Now I say ended up because it was in retrospect one of the best things that's ever happened to me. My, my marriage to Judy, with whom I went to high school very early, I was 20, just turned 22, and she was 21, was the best thing. But the fact is that I was not happy about going to Maryland. I thought that was really not where I wanted to be. And I performed terribly my first year. I mean, when I say terribly, I got a 1.7 and 1.0 back to back and almost flunked out, but I dropped out because I was just a kid, 18-year-old kid, didn't have it together. So in the spring semester of 1959, I went back and was of the opinion that I better buckle down. But really didn't have the kind of motivation that I needed. And we had a spring convocation. The spring convocation was either the last week in March or first week in April of 1959. That date is important, 1959. And we had a convocation speaker and classes were out from 11 to 1. I got out of class, was walking up towards the student union, And frankly, was gonna go get some lunch and wasn't gonna go to the convocation and then go to work. I had a job at CIA as a file clerk, 3:30 to 12 at night. And lo and behold, it was a warm day, a 1958 Pontiac convertible with the speaker that, not the Speaker of the House, but the person who was going to address us in the convocation came by and I recognized him. I said, that's really cool, meaning the 1958 Pontiac convertible. And so I said, I'm going to go hear him speak. And so I went and I heard him speak and it was a Damascus Road experience for me. It would change my life and it gave me a vision and a direction and incentive to what I wanted to do. And that next week I switched majors from a business major to a political science major, decided I'd go to law school and decided I'd get into politics. Now, people who are as old as I am would say, in 1959, who could that have been? Well, it was John Fitzgerald Kennedy, and he was running for president. United States. And it just changed my life. And that semester, I went from getting a 1.0 to a 3.8. Wow. Joyce Bender just changed my life. And 7 years later, 4 months out of, 5 months out of Georgetown Law School, I was elected to the Maryland State Senate. Wow. So you asked me how I got into politics. That's how I got into politics.

And what a great story that is.

Well, it's my story, and I think it's a little corny, but I also think it has the virtue of being true and being just an extraordinary event to just sort of turn me around from somebody who really wasn't studying, obviously really wasn't applying myself. To somebody who felt this is what I want to do. And his message was not run for politics. His message was make a difference in your community, in your state, in your country, in the world. Do something that you feel will make the people's lives better, that you love, people's lives better who are in your neighborhood, etc., etc. And so that's, that's my story of how I decided I was going to get into public life.

That is a great story. You know what I also like about that story? One man. One man. Look at the impact that can have on someone. One person. Wow. And a great person. Well, I know you know this is the 35th anniversary of the signing of the ADA. And I wonder, first question I have, do you think that could happen today?

Whether or not we could summons the bipartisan, uh, work, uh, that we had to have to get to that result on July 26th with George H.W. Bush signing that bill, I think is problematic. Uh, first of all, I think that, uh, there is an inclination, uh, among many of the Republicans that, that I now serve with, uh, to, uh, have a minimalist approach to trying to help people on the theory that if they help themselves, they're going to be stronger and better and our community will work better. It's a laissez-faire kind of concept. But the reality is that those with disabilities were being shut out of participation. You know, we talk about life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness and those being fundamental rights. But if you're shut out of our economy, if you're shut out of our culture, if you're shut out of participation and literally shut out because you simply can't get through the door. Uh, you don't have that opportunity that we talk about being the American dream. And, uh, because of that, uh, I think it's doubtful that we would have summoned a bipartisan majority that would confronted a business community that was very worried, an educational community was worried, a communications industry that was worried, a transportation industry that was worried about all the things they thought they might have to do to make accessible that which they were delivering. And I, I hope that would not be the case, but I'm, I'm very doubtful we could do that at this point in time because the business community was very, very concerned about what we were doing. Others were very concerned about what we were doing, and it took a lot of work, and it took a partnership with a guy named Steve Bartlett, who was a Republican from Texas who became the governor of Dallas— excuse me, the mayor of Dallas, uh, at some point in time. He's still active, still my friend. And we spent literally over 100 hours working in a room together with advocates, with people who are concerned about what they were going to have to do to accommodate people, with committee chairman, subcommittee chairman, other members across the aisle. And of course, Bob Michael, who is the minority leader, was supportive of this effort. As was, uh, uh, Tom Foley, and very importantly, uh, President George H.W. Bush, uh, and his counsel. So whether it could be done now, I don't know, uh, but it was done then in a bipartisan fashion. But it looked easier than it was because at the end we got big votes in the House and in the Senate to pass the Americans with Disabilities Act. But boy, it was a tough slog to get everybody confident enough to support it with a thought that it could be implemented in a way that did not put people out of business or put people in places that they could not go.

Well, thank God that didn't happen. And, you know, President Bush Republican. Amazing how he worked, you know, to get that passed. And he had a special interest in that, right? He was very dedicated to that whole mission.

He was. And he had a number of friends, one of whom was Evan Kemp, who was very knowledgeable and asked him to get involved in this issue and others who asked him to get involved. And he said during the course of his campaign, that he was going to do so, and he kept his word. And he worked very constructively with me. But initially, what he had was a good conversation and working relationship with a guy named Tony Coelho, who you know very well, who's my dear friend and who really was the one who involved me in the Americans with Disabilities Act and who taught me a lot about why it was so important and what we needed to do. And when he left the Congress, he gave me an assignment. I want you to get this passed. And he and I were, were and are still very, very close friends. And I took that as a personal responsibility to do that. And we were successful, but it was a lot of hard work, a lot of bipartisan work. And Tony, of course, was as good an apostle for the disability community as there is in the country. And he was right with me all the way. He wasn't in Congress, but he was a great advisor and great educator of what needed to be done and how we could do it.

Did you and Tony just meet in Congress? Is that how you got to know each other?

Yes, we just met in Congress. Yeah, I didn't know Tony before I came to Congress, but I was his first contested campaign. He was chairman of the campaign committee, and I was his first contested campaign in 1981 special election.

And here you are.

Here we are. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So I want to talk about the day. This is the 35th anniversary of the signing of the ADA. What was that day like for our listeners?

Well, first of all, it was outside on the Capitol grounds—

on the—

excuse me, on the White House grounds. And it was literally 1,000 people, maybe more were there. And this was the culmination, frankly, of decades of work. The ADA in many respects was based upon the Rehabilitation Act, which had been passed a couple of decades before, not quite. So this was the culmination of unbelievable work and courage of literally tens of thousands of people who experienced being shut out of so many aspects of our society for so long. And they were the really heroes of this, of the passage of this bill, because they came to the Congress. They had the courage to tell people what kind of disability they had and the results of that disability. You say, you know, epilepsy, Tony Coelho has epilepsy, as, as you well know, and Tony is one of the most able people I know in life. But he was perceived because of his disability to not be able to do certain things. Well, none of us can do everything, so there's some certain things that none of us can do. But Tony was absolutely dedicated to assuring that what happened to him didn't happen to others. And what happened to him, he was, as you know, studying for the priesthood, and the Catholic Church found out that he had epilepsy, and they said, you cannot be a priest. And their rationalization was, if you were giving last rites and you had an epileptic seizure, uh, that, that would— you would be unable to be a priest. Well, the fallacy of that argument, of course, if you were a priest and you had a heart attack, uh, you wouldn't be able to give the last rites either. I mean, there are a lot of reasons why you couldn't. But, uh, Tony would have been a wonderful priest. Uh, he's a loving, caring, uh, devout human being, and he would have been a wonderful priest, but he would shut out. So he didn't have that opportunity. He was very depressed about it., and, uh, thought his life had come to an end. But he overcame that, and he dedicated his life to, to making sure that others didn't have that same, uh, blocked door, locked door, or throwing out of— out the door experience. And I think that So many of those people were on the White House grounds that had gone through the agony of rejection, the agony of disappointment, and they were ecstatic. And essentially it was their day, a declaration of independence.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. July 26th was like July 4th.

Mm-hmm.

They, they, they were, they, they had hope. And we've come a long way since that time, as you know, in many, many ways. And certainly access is one of those. We've come to a very, we're not finished yet, obviously, and we still have ways to go. But now every employer, every builder, every individual thinks about how, how could what I'm doing shut out somebody from access to what I'm producing? And we've overcome a lot, as you know better than, better than I do and better than most. One of the things that we have not gotten done is the hope of employment of those who who can and want to work to do so and feel a sense of self-sufficiency in doing that. You have been a wonderful, wonderful advocate of that and facilitator of that happening with, I guess, Joyce Bender, thousands of businesses around the country and maybe around the world and saying to them, look, those folks with disabilities who want to work are very conscientious and very appreciative of having a work opportunity, perhaps needing a reasonable accommodation, a door wider, a phone device that makes a hard-of-hearing person able to— some scrolling text, which allows a non-hearing person to know what's going on on a screen. So we have a long way to go on many things, but we've come a long way.

Yes, we have. And I know employment is important to you also. Before you leave, because I know there's a shutdown, unfortunately, coming our way in the United States, a lot of listeners wanted me to ask you one question. Is there anything they can do to try to stop this taking away their healthcare?

They can do what John Lewis said, speak up, stand up, and speak out. Let people know, as those with disabilities did. The reason the Disabilities Act passed and passed with such large numbers is people with disabilities came They sat in offices. They, they, there was a sit-in in the Capitol. But more importantly, there were meetings in every office with members, with staff, by those who had a disability and explained their stories. We need people today to explain why they absolutely have to have availability of affordable healthcare. Uh, this shutdown is all about, first of all, uh, Donald Trump, uh, has talked in the past about a shutdown. Uh, he would welcome a shutdown to get, get some objective. Um, and, uh, Russell Vought is, who is the director of the OMB, he's essentially the chief operating officer of the government. He tells people what money they can spend, when they can spend it. And what they can do. We think he's far exceeded his legal authority to do so, but that's what he thinks he can do. He has said that, uh, he wants to have federal employees vilified, be perceived as villains, and feel so badly about their employment that they don't want to come to work. Um, He has specifically said that he wants to shut down, uh, parts of government. Uh, as a result, we are now on this shutdown abyss because what the Republicans did, they cut a half a trillion dollars in Medicaid payments and they are refused to continue the subsidies which allow millions of people, some 13 to 14 million people, to afford their healthcare because we give help through the, through the legislation that we passed in '22 to offset the premium and copays on the Affordable Care Act. Literally millions of people, if they don't have those subsidies, will not be able to afford even the Affordable Care Act's, uh, insurance. Uh, so our position is, look, we certainly don't want to shut down government, unlike Vought, who talked about it as an alternative that he, he would want to do, and Donald Trump, who talked about it as an alternative he would want to do in years past. No Democrat has said he wants to shut down the government or she wants to shut down the government, because shutting down the government is stupid, uh, it's wasteful, it's, uh, bad for the employees, but it's even worse for the American people that those employees serve on a daily basis. So shutting down the government is an unacceptable alternative. Having said that, Tomorrow, people are going to start getting notices about very steeply increased 10%, 15%, 20%, 25% increases in their healthcare premiums. And they're going to have sticker shock and they're going to say, I cannot afford that. I don't, I don't earn enough money to keep my healthcare. That's not an acceptable alternative either. So what we've told the administration, We're for keeping the government open. We are for— we will vote for this bill, but we want to make sure in the process that we save people from losing their healthcare and having their costs escalate very substantially. That seems like to us a very reasonable, good policy for us to pursue. Unfortunately, our Republican colleagues have not been willing to talk to us about it, much less do it.

Well, we have you. And I want to say what you said about John Lewis. The only way I feel there will be change is if there is a Martin Luther King Jr. type rally, like a massive protest. That's the only way I think something could happen. I, I, I, and of course voting. Voting this election, that is, if we can still vote this election. But that's the only thing, voting. But a huge outcry because there are people that will die that don't have Medicaid. They'll die. Children will die with disabilities. So, you know, I don't know. I can't think what else we can do other than, as Tony says, when you get a chance to take the podium, speak up. I mean, we can't be afraid. We have to speak up.

That's what John said. You know, you see something that's not right, not fair, not just, you need to stand up, you need to speak up, you need to speak out. And so when people ask me what to do, make your voice heard. And you can make your voice heard in a lot of ways. Call your congressional office, call your senator, go to rallies. As you say, it may not be the Martin Luther King August rally in 1983, but it will be a rally that has, you know, maybe 10 people, 20 people in a local community. And the news coverage will be there. And the news coverage will hear people saying, we cannot afford to lose our healthcare. We can't afford to lose our Medicaid. We can't afford not to have help in affording our premiums and our copays. Um, thousands of people will hear that broadcast and hear that person and say, yes, I'm in the same spot. I'm going to call, uh, my representative. Uh, I'm going to do a public rally. I'm going to do, uh, maybe a, a radio talk show as we're doing right now. To make sure that people understand how important it is that we continue to make sure that people can afford their healthcare. Because without it, as you point out, people will die.

Yeah, they will. Well, Congressman Hoyer, I know that you mentioned you have to go to take care of this shutdown, but I have a message for you. Don't leave until you're 100.

Okay, let me see if I can make that happen.

But we need you.

That's a pretty tall order, you understand?

Well, I'm going to be Tony. You have to do it.

All right. Well, you're very kind. And I'll talk to my wife Elaine about that.

See what she—

All right.

You talk to her about it.

Joyce, again, thank you very, very much. Nobody has been more committed, more tenacious, more focused, more effective than you have been in advocating for those with disabilities and advocating that they get jobs, keep jobs, and have a sense of self-sufficiency, which is so important for human beings.

Thank you.

Love you. All right. Love you too.

Bye-bye. Bye now. Bye-bye. And with that, we're going to go to break. If you just tuned in, this is Joyce Bender, where disability matters, on voiceamerica.com. We'll be back.

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You're listening to Disability Matters. Now please welcome back the host of Disability Matters. Here's Joyce Bender.

Welcome back. If you just joined, you missed Steny Hoyer, Congressman Hoyer. Absolutely fantastic. So you gotta— if you want to tell someone else about it, go hear it on demand. Spotify, Voice America, YouTube. You can see them. Go to YouTube. Make sure you tell everyone about this show. Tony Coelho did not know he was going to be out of the, uh, state. I don't think out of the country, but he's out, uh, but he's going to be back on. And I am excited that we have Holly O'Donnell with us. Hello, Holly.

Hi, Joyce, how are you?

I'm good, how about you?

I'm fine, thank you.

Good. Holly, we just had one of your favorite people on, Congressman Hoyer.

Oh, great. Well, yeah, thrilled to honor him on September 17th at the Bazelon Center's Awards at the Press Club.

Yes, and we have that every year because I'm so honored to be on the board. And you have photographs at bazelon.org, right?

We do, and all over social media. At Bazelon Center, you can see clips of the awards, you can see photographs, and also on our YouTube channel, you can watch the event itself or snippets of different people's remarks.

Oh, that is awesome. Well, we have with us CEO of the Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law, stepping in for Jennifer Mathis for our Mathis on the Mic. So, Holly, I guess the big news today is the shutdown.

Yes, well, it's looming, um, and, um, we are waiting to see Um, what happens?

So people could lose their job, do you think?

Well, I don't know. I mean, there were a lot of concerns about people's employment, you know, from other actions that the administration has taken. Um, and, you know, there was the fork in the road. Different agencies have done their own downsizing, restructuring. Lots of people were given an opportunity for early retirement and different ways that I think there will be less federal employees for sure than there are right now. There will be, my guess would be, tomorrow.

Terrible. Well, what else is going on in the news?

Well, you know that, um, October is National Disability Employment Awareness Month, and, um, so we wanted to share a little bit about that, um, because employment of people with disabilities has always been a bipartisan issue. And it has been extremely concerning to see that there have been attacks on employment during the current administration. As you know, the Department of Labor is proposing to eliminate the key portions of the rules implementing Section 503 of the Rehab Act. And another example, Joyce Bender, I don't know if you've heard about this, but the Centers for Disease Control briefly sent notice that it was pausing all grants of 100% telework. As a reasonable accommodation. The good news is, is that they've pulled back on that policy, but our understanding is that it's still under discussion at Health and Human Services. And finally, you know, every time I substitute for Jennifer on Mathis at the Mic, I've been talking about the Protection and Advocacy systems, often referred to as the P&As, and they play a key role in advocating for the employment rights of people with disabilities. But the administration has proposed dramatically cutting the funding for the P&As. So as we enter October, um, and you can talk a little bit about what Bender will be doing, but, um, with NDEAM, people should be— continue to be vigilant and take every opportunity to push for increasing employment of people with disabilities. And right now, one thing they can do, and we talk about this every time, is call their members of Congress to advocate to ensure that the P&As are fully funded.

A question I have, your understanding, that telework, would that be for everyone that they have to go back to work?

No, I mean, I think it was related to grants specifically.

Oh, I see. Yeah, well, we love National Disability Employment Awareness Month, but I call it National Disability Employment Month because we've had enough awareness. I mean, how much awareness do we need to know you have to hire people with disabilities and that it is a business investment, not a charity? Just today I spoke at a virtual conference for the Autism Society conference they had. And this is everyone talking about, why can't we get jobs? You know, why won't people hire people with disabilities? And they're not meaning right now. They're not meaning just right now with what they're going through. They're meaning forever up until right now. And mental health is a huge stigma. That, as is epilepsy and all disabilities, but mental health especially. Why do you think that is, Holly?

Well, unfortunately, I mean, the fact of the matter is, is that it's extremely common. All of us know people with mental health disabilities. They are our neighbors, they are our friends, they are our coworkers, they are our siblings. They are our parents. And I think that there's been for too long the stigma of people with mental illness are dangerous. And that's something that we have to work really hard to change. And I think that a lot of the work that you're doing, a lot of the work that the Bazelon Center is doing along with partners across the country, We can make some progress, but it is hard.

Yes. And, you know, I just want to say, listen to what Holly said. It's your brother, your sister, your mother, your father, your daughter, your son. 1 in 4 people, 1 in 4, live with a mental health disability. So you know what that means? That means you work with people. With mental health disabilities. They're just not telling anyone because they know they'll be discriminated against. They'll be treated differently. People will start this, "You need to be afraid of this person." That's why they don't tell. I always tell people, be careful when you say to someone, "I don't want to hire people with mental health disabilities," because you could be talking to someone with a mental health disability. And this stigma was never so— I think you agree with me on this, Holly— it was never so wrapped up in danger and violence as it is today.

I agree with that.

Because every time something happened, no matter what it is, oh, they must have had a mental health disability. And yet If a man beats his wife to death, they say he was a bad man. They don't say, oh, he had a mental health disability. But if someone does anything else with a mental health disability, oh yeah, they're all like that. That's why, that's why that happened. There is so much discrimination. And, you know, Baselon is doing so much to try to help and change this. Holly, I assume you're working on a lot of briefs with other organizations right now.

Yeah, I mean, but back to the— back to changing it is, I do think I am inspired by the younger generation that are much more open and communicating about their mental health. And, you know, I take a lot of leadership from from them and the ways that they communicate in using social media in a positive way. And, you know, we have young employees and interns who we learn a lot from. And I think that there is opportunity in the future that the association will change and look forward to working with everybody on that. In the years to come.

And listen, if you're listening right now and you are one of those people or family member or anyone, and you say we need help, you know, if you need help, you have to spend money. So you can make a donation today to Bazelon. Is it— it's bazelon.org, is that right? Or bazeloncenter.org? Bazelon.org.

bazelon.org.

B-A-Z-E-L-O-N, bazelon.org. If you don't help us, who will? You know, we want to change the world, but to do that, we need help. And as I said, go to the website, make a donation today, and remember, Even $1 makes a difference. I mean, we hope it's much more than that, but make a donation no matter what. Bazelon.org. If you have a child with a disability, husband, wife, spouse, partner, or you, this is someone fighting the fight for you every day. Go make a donation. And Holly O'Donnell, the CEO, is a dynamo, a wonderful person. I love her so much. We all love Holly. So she's running the show. You know you're in good hands. And with that, we're going to go to break. But before we go, our quote for the day is, "When you get a chance to take the podium, speak up," said the honorable Tony Coelho. This is Joyce Bender, America's Voice, where disability matters, at voiceamerica.com. Talk to you all next week, and remember, in the words of Mary Brooker, when you get up tomorrow, remember, choose joy. See you soon.

Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific time and 2 PM Eastern time for another installment of Disability Matters right here on the Voice America Variety Channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.