COVID -19: Its Impact on the Poor in Our Country and African American Disabled People

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Hey everyone, welcome to the show. And being that this year is the 30th anniversary —of the signing of the Americans with Disabilities Act, I have to send a special shout-out to Yoshiko Dart, wife of the late civil rights leader Justin Dart Jr., who was known as the general of the disability rights community. And oh my goodness, to my two friends from the State Department, Richard Roberts and Gangyung Cho. Richard is in Japan, Gangyung in South Korea. And if you missed the show last week, it was so awesome. It was with Richard from the embassy in Japan. And when you listen to this show, you will hear the questions and then the Japanese translation, and then back to me in English, and then the— Oh, it was just so awesome. So, you know, go to Spotify or Apple, subscribe to my radio show Disability Matters with Joyce Bender, or just go in to hear that one show, and it is awesome. And I know you're gonna wanna do the same thing with this show today, but first, thank you to our sponsors, Highmark, Wells Fargo and Peoples Natural Gas and Employment Options. We've had so many sponsors this year, and I really want to thank my listeners throughout the world. Um, wow, I mean, such a great listening audience. Thank you for your support and just keep it up as you are in the United States. Well, I have to tell you how excited I am about our show today. You probably know, since we put out the social media everywhere, that a few months ago we had Shirell Barber, Harvard graduate, social epidemiologist, someone that works with her father, Reverend Dr. William Barber, and the Poor People's Campaign, and someone that cares about Black people with disabilities, people with disabilities across the board, and the impact with healthcare disparity. So, uh, Sherrell, welcome to the show. Dr. Sherrell Barber.

Hi Joyce, thank you so much for having me on today.

It's a pleasure. So Sherrell, for our listeners that did not hear you on the last show, would you tell everyone you know, what you do, what your role is, your involvement with the Poor People's Campaign. And I just want to tell everyone listening, you are hearing today's civil rights leader now and of the future, and that is why it's so exciting for me to have Sherrell on. So Sherrell, why don't you tell our listeners throughout the world about what you do?

Sure, absolutely. And thank you so much for that gracious introduction. You know, it's— One of the things that I'll say is that it has been amazing, even in the darkness of this moment and the pandemic and all of what we've had to bear witness to over the last 6 months, to really be among a cadre of folks in public health and also just folks in the community who are standing up in this moment. So, I am deeply honored and humbled to be among, you know, so many powerful voices. But as you mentioned, my field of expertise is social epidemiology. I have been working on and studying to try to understand, you know, links between structural racism and racial health inequities, both in the United States and in some work in Brazil. I try to bring an equity and a justice lens to the work that I do, using data to make the invisible visible, as I often say, but then mobilizing that data so that we can have real impacts in communities. In terms of my work with the Poor People's Campaign, it really was born out of this moment. So, you know, as you know, you mentioned my father, Reverend Dr. William Barber, in 2018 began and launched, along with folks from around the country, the rebirth, if you will, of the Poor People's Campaign, which in 1968 was going to be one of Dr. Martin Luther King's kind of next stages of the civil rights work, really bringing poor folks, Black, white, Indigenous, Hispanic, from across the country, you know, together in a, you know, to really challenge systemic poverty along with systemic racism. So that was 1968. But unfortunately, he did not get to carry out that vision because he was brutally assassinated. And so in 2018, Reverend Dr. Barber, as well as Reverend Dr. Liz Theoharis out of New York, decided to revive that vision and launched the Poor People's Campaign. In June of 2018, there was a massive gathering in Washington, D.C., that I was so blessed to attend, which had actually some of the original folks from the Poor People's Campaign in 1968, along with new folks from around the country. And then fast forward to 2000, we have, you know, the emergence of a global pandemic. Which is, again, wreaking havoc in poor communities and communities of color across the United States and the world. And the Poor People's Campaign asked if I would put together a committee of public health scholars who have been committed to equity and justice to be able to provide some expertise as they kind of— the campaign itself charted its way through advocacy efforts throughout the pandemic. And so, in March, was able to convene colleagues at the Harvard School of Public Health, the FXB Center for Health and Human Rights, as well as UCLA, the Center for Racism, Social Justice, and Health. And together, we've come together really to be alongside this movement, to provide whatever expertise that we can from a public health standpoint, but also to really join in with the movement. So, for us, It it's has been an honor to be able to be in community with directly impacted leaders from all over the country. You know, even as we have put out statements about the premature reopening of, you know, states and economies, we put out statements about the need to center justice and center equity. And we also supported the work of the June 2020 mass mobilization digital mass gathering, again, which challenged this country to really face the issues of systemic poverty and systemic racism and ecological devastation. And in that moment, we heard from so many from around the country who have been directly impacted, but also are empowered to stand against these systems of oppression. So, my work is a small part of the amazing work of the Poor People's Campaign, and just really excited to be able to be in this space. And to be doing this work in this moment.

Oh, thank you so much. What you are doing is so incredibly important. You know, I've heard your father talk or read about, you know, what he has said about Jesus talking about the poor. And, you know, it just seems like sometimes There's a group of people that there's like a blinder on or something, you know, that people just don't see. But yet, yet your father, when I heard him speak one time, was saying how huge this number was even before this pandemic. I mean, it isn't just the pandemic that suddenly has all of these people in poverty.

Isn't that correct? Right. Exactly, yes. So one of the things that I like about the Poor People's Campaign, and one of the reasons he was so adamant about bringing scholars onto this and has done so throughout the campaign, is that their work is rooted in the data. And as a scientist, as an epidemiologist, it's always good. My father often says that every movement needs footnotes. And so it's been an honor to provide those footnotes. But one of the footnotes that they use in all of the work that they do and have rolled out over the last couple of years is this number of 140 million poor and low-wealth individuals in the United States. 140 million, right? Wow, my God. And they also do— and that's a— I mean, we don't think about that. And they don't use just the poverty line, which they see as a vast underestimation of the magnitude of the problem. They also, you know, they've created a measure that captures also what we would consider the working poor, right? So there are so many in this country who literally work themselves to death, right, and still are not able to provide for their families, have decent housing, have access to healthcare, etc. So we have in this country a chronic problem of, you know, poor and low-income folks who have been made poor. By the systems of oppression, by the kind of the greed, the— my dad calls it a pornographic amount of greed in this country that then intersects with racism, ecological devastation, the war economy, and this kind of false moral narrative that we've created in this country, right? So, but poverty really is one of those issues that just traverses this entire country. From Mississippi to Maine, from California to the Carolinas, you know, poverty is an issue that we have to address head-on.

I have to tell you something I really hate. It's when you hear people talk and they say, "Well, if you just pulled yourself up by your bootstraps, everyone could be successful." But, right, you know, that is so not true. Although, don't get me wrong, it is possible to be successful, but you should not judge people that are striving because, like, you're not in their situation. Do you know what I mean?

Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, no, it's— I mean, I think— but that therein lies the, the false narrative that we've created, right? Um, we've created— and this is, you know, rugged individualism that is, you know, part of the American kind of narrative, right, that folks should pull themselves up by their bootstraps. But we cannot ignore the kinds of policy violence that has been exacted among poor communities, communities of color across this country, that even when they are striving, as you said, right, they're working 40 hours more a week, they're multiple jobs to make ends meet, etc., even when you strive, you can't make it in this country, you know, because of, again, the systems of greed. You know, one of the things that I— that has been, you know, even as we're in the middle of the pandemic, which is exposing so much of the hypocrisy, you know, that there are companies and entities that have profited from the pain of this pandemic, right? No. That is a level of evil, really, when you think about it, that in the midst of a pandemic where millions are losing their jobs, millions are losing their health insurance, You know, there are folks who are food insecure, don't know where they're— you know, if they'll have a home, et cetera, because of evictions, et cetera. All of that's happening. And you literally have companies and individuals that have profited in this moment. That should cause us to be up in arms and in the streets when we consider that. And, you know, that's— and see, that's why this movement is so critical, because it is calling out Again, the ways in which we've made people poor, this system has created the kind of poverty that we see in this country.

Right. For example, and there are so many examples, and by the way, I so agree with you about greed, you know, being evil. I agree with you, but there are, because there are times you are letting people die You know, let's start because you are not willing to part with the, you know, a company. So many things they could do, right? But anyway, whenever you study schools, high schools, there is no doubt about it, whether it's a private school or a public school in the suburbs or certain areas, they get so much more than in the public, where it, you know, the city, where it is a high proportion of the poor and people of color that don't have books, that don't have the same teacher quality, that don't have even recess or kindergarten. So now, how is that person supposed to compete equally?

Right, exactly. We really cut people off at the— you know, before they even get started in this country, and that just creates this compounded effect over, you know, a life course. And that has just huge implications. So you're right that, you know, when you look at the systems that have created the inequities in education, inequities in where people live and those kinds of things, the access to jobs and opportunity, that is just differentially distributed in our country. And again, it is because of these laws and policies that have been embedded and constructed to reinforce these inequities. So, you know, and again, which is why a movement like the Poor People's Campaign is necessary, one, to call out and to uncover these kinds of systems and structures that create, but also One of the things that has been— my father often says, "You don't just curse the darkness," right? You have to then think about what is the vision, what's the radical imagination for how to move things forward. And I think that's really the power of the Poor People's Campaign, is it's setting out a vision for how it doesn't have to be this way, and there's ways and policies and things that can be put in place to move us forward as a country. And if we're not going to do it in this moment, moment, where we're seeing so much of the suffering due to the pandemic and the racial violence that we've experienced, if we're not going to kind of do the kind of truth-telling, the kind of evaluation of our policies, then when will we, Joyce? You know, when will we actually, as a country, try to say, "We can't go back to normal. We have to actually restructure the society and make it so that everyone has an opportunity to live and to thrive"?

Yes. Oh my God, when I hear you talking, I'm thinking you need to run for office, Shirell. I mean, you are so powerful. Um, and you know, as I said before, to me you are a national civil rights leader right now that people need to listen to. Um, you know, because you, you have the knowledge I mean, you have the knowledge, and I like what you said before, you also have the data. How many people did you say there were in poverty even prior to this?

Prior to this, 140 million, and those are numbers, I think those are based in like 2018 or so. But again, the pandemic, as we're seeing the economic hardship that is being exacted because of the pandemic, and what I'll say is because of the lack of responsiveness And so, one of the things I will point out is that we've got a bill that's held up in the Senate, that the Democrats in Congress passed, another relief bill that has not been voted on. And in the midst of the pandemic, where people are really, really suffering and need the kind of relief that that bill would have. So, we're bound to see that these numbers, in terms of poverty, increase over the next few years. And, you know, we've definitely got to be, you know, thinking about and wrestling with how we protect those who are most marginalized before the pandemic and who are going to be pushed further to the margins because of it.

Yeah, and see, that's the horrible part— pushed further to the margins. In other words, it will be worse, which is terrible to imagine, than it is now. And if it is, How long will that take to repair? You know what I mean? How long will that take? And okay, call to action here, Cherelle. Do you want people to call their senators in reference to getting that bill passed?

There's a lot of things. I think there's a lot of things that can be done. I think, you know, one of the— some of the work of the Poor People's Campaign is that they resumed over the last few months moral Mondays where they're calling for different actions. And some of it has been to directly call Mitch McConnell's office to say, "Look, when are you going to push this through?" And there have been hundreds and hundreds of calls to Senate offices. But I think the real call to action, especially as we are approaching this upcoming election, is really mobilizing. And that's what I see, again, that the Poor People's Campaign is really pushing. So they have what's called the Mobilizing, organizing, registering, and educating, or MORE, People for a Movement That Votes, which they've been doing voter education training, mobilizing folks to be poll workers in this moment. Because what we see in this moment, Joyce, is that we have leaders from the top down— and so, it's not just this current administration, it's not just Trump, but from in the Senate, in Congress, who who do not have the interests of poor folks and people of color, their best interests at heart, and they need to be voted out, right? We need some shifts in power and shifts in the folks in office who are making these decisions. And we're literally seeing in this pandemic that it's a matter of life and death. And so that's one call to action is, we've got to be mobilizing towards this election that's coming up in a way that shifts power so that we can advance the kind of life-giving agenda that's necessary to radically restructure. So, that's one thing. The other, the second call to action is that the Poor People's Campaign on June 2020, shortly after June 20th, the mobilizing effort that attracted over 3 million views across the world put out what's called a Jubilee Platform. And this Jubilee platform is really powerful because, again, it talks about the kinds of policies necessary to address systemic racism, systemic poverty, ecological devastation, and the climate crisis, to do all the things that we know are necessary to really radically restructure this, you know, society. So I would encourage folks to visit thepoorpeoplescampaign.org. To learn more about these two initiatives where, you know, over both in this short run leading up to the election, but beyond that, really calling for the kinds of policy solutions that are necessary.

Yeah, and I just want to say, PoorPeopleCampaign.org. If you really care and you know, again, don't say, wow, that's Sherelle Barber. She is really good. Isn't this great? You then have to take action. You know, you have to do something. So one thing you could do is go to thepoorpeoplescampaign.org and make a contribution. You know, I always say, if you are a nonprofit, you know, it's like a business. You need money to do these things, and you can't sit back and say, oh, I want them to do this. So Please take time to make a contribution to the poorpeoplescampaign.org. And then, as Sherrell said, we have to mobilize. Oh my goodness, you know, there are like 50 million people with disabilities in this country. And the intersectionality is across the board, all races, gender, et cetera. And, um, If we could just get a portion of these people to vote, we would change the administration. So, right, and you know what, poverty and disability go hand in hand. So I have to say, you've got to vote. And I'm worried, I'm worried about, uh, mail-in ballots that are not accessible. For example, if you're blind or have a learning disability And if you are one of those people, get someone now to read it for you and get it done now, you know, because it— listen, it's going to impact you. You know, Justin Dart, that great civil rights leader, said, "Vote as if your life depends upon it, because it does." And wow, is that so true? Isn't that so true right now?

It's so true. It's so true in this moment. And a couple of points that I'd make on that, you know, one is that the fact that they— the attempt to suppress the vote is so strong. And actually, what I'll say, and what, you know, part of the movement, one of the really big platforms of the movement is protecting the vote. You know, we saw back in 2010, when they gutted the Voting Rights Act, we saw saw this coming in some ways, the ways in which they were suppressing. And now it's just coming to a head in this moment, the ways in which they're suppressing the vote. And my father in North Carolina was calling folks to pay attention. Like, they are trying to steal the vote because they recognize the power of the people, right? So that's— and when I think about the folks like Fannie Lou Hamer and others who fought for the right to vote, It was because there is some power in having that right to vote to be able to change things and change policy. And what I'll say is it's not the only strategy within a bold movement like the Poor People's Campaign, but it's definitely one of them. So one, that the ways in which they are trying to undermine the vote and really, at its core, undermine democracy, right, is just egregious. And so we need to be unleashing that. The second point is that you make a point about the disabilities community, and there's 50 million folks, and if those were mobilized, that it could really do some, you know, go towards having some political transformation. The Poor People's Campaign did a similar analysis where they showed that in key states, if the poor and low-income individuals who were voting towards towards the kinds of justice that's put forth in the platform, if they were voting in some key states, that they could literally transform the political landscape and the political calculus necessary to get the kinds of policies we— the kinds of leaders we need in office to push the kinds of policies that are necessary, right? So there is a power in mobilizing folks to vote in this moment that I think those in power know that, and that's why they're trying to suppress it. So, you know, it's just so critical in this moment that we're facing because, like you said, Joyce Bender, and with this pandemic, it's just making it crystal clear, it is literally a matter of life and a matter of death.

Yeah. And, you know, I always say, okay, there are all these millions of people with disabilities, and yet How often do we hear that by the candidates? I mean, how often do you hear a platform for that? And as you said, for people who are in poverty, I mean, this is where, this is where your call to action really is, because as I said, you're turning a blind eye. If you're not seeing what's going on. Okay, I'm afraid to ask you this next question, afraid to ask you because you're going to tell me we're in the Twilight Zone again, but where, where are we on COVID-19 and what do you expect? Oh, I don't like that noise. And what do you expect to see I want to remind everyone, you're hearing from a scientist. This is not just someone with an opinion. Dr. Sherrell Barber, hear that first part, doctor? She is a scientist and a social epidemiologist. So she knows this better than any of us. So back to my question, where are we on COVID-19? Quit making that noise. I know what's coming.

And can we expect great change Okay, go ahead. Yeah. It's a challenge. I mean, you know, we're— when was I on your show? Back in June? We were talking about this and, you know, it's challenging, Joyce Bender. And again, as a social epidemiologist, as someone who's in the field of public health, you know, again, myself, my colleagues and I, we have just been appalled again at the federal response. As most of you all may know, you know, the U.S. surpassed 200,000 deaths just last week, which is another very grim milestone in the course of this pandemic. And I want to put that in perspective because globally we actually just recently passed a million deaths globally. And I think it's really important, even as we are, you know, focused on what's happening in the U.S., you know, this is a global a pandemic that sees no borders. And that level of death, and what I try to do is humanize the data, right? So, we can kind of rattle these numbers off, but these deaths mean that those are lost mamas and daddies and, in some cases, kids. Those are lost members of communities, of families, of so many people. This is— these are tears in the fabric of our humanity, right? And so, I think we just always, always, always need to center, you know, these numbers have names and faces, and they're people connected to families and communities. So, that's the one thing I'll say, because it's been challenging, you know, to think about the level of death that we've seen just from COVID-19, not to mention the other, you know, causes of death. And we're still continuing to see persistent inequities. Blacks, Latino and Latinx populations, Indigenous populations, all of those groups are 3 times more likely to die compared to whites in this country. And so, again, a devastating and striking inequity when it comes to deaths and inequities. And in some places, these inequities are deepening. We're also seeing that the same racial inequities that showed up among adults, there's some data that's emerging that's showing Black children are also more likely to die. Black and Latino children are also more likely to die from COVID-19, right? And so, this is having, again, a devastating impact on all of us. And then there are the communities who were in crisis prior to the crisis. That's what I say. Systems of racism and poverty and ecological devastation that made this crisis much more harsh in certain communities. And they are feeling both the health impacts, as well as the economic hardship that is coming along with this pandemic. And so, you know—and then, again, in the midst of this, we still don't have the kind of federal coordination in terms of testing, in terms of surveillance. In terms of being able to identify the places where nationally, you know, kind of a national coordinated system of testing so we can see where we are. There definitely have been states and locales that have, you know, stepped up to the plate to do the best they can. But again, the infrastructure that we had prior to this crisis and even the infrastructure that we have now in terms of public health and healthcare, it was just flawed. And so this— pandemic really, it came upon us and we were not prepared and are not prepared, and we still don't have the kind of national leadership to get us through, I think. And then the final thing that I'll say is that, you know, many of the infectious disease experts are saying that we are in the fall, as October, November, December approaches with flu season, that we are in a moment where we're going to increases in cases, increases in deaths because less people are outside, more folks inside. And so, we're going to see some higher rates as we approach the fall. So, it's something that we're going to need to prepare for. And in this, unfortunately, what we have to do is do the things that, the things we know can protect. Us. But again, so many communities still have barriers. And, but yeah, so that's where we are with the pandemic, still in a very rough place, still in a place where some workers are not getting the kinds of protections they need. And still, you know, and we're still at the top. We are still top of the list in terms of cases and deaths, which is a tragedy in this in this moment.

So, as an epidemiologist, that means you feel it could continue, continue past December if we have that second wave or third wave, whatever we're on?

I mean, we're going to be, yeah, yeah, we're going to be dealing. So, I think one of the things that I've tried to just impress upon folks is like, this isn't ending this year. You know, I've heard Fauci even say that we need to be thinking into the second, third, fourth quarter of next year where we are going to be dealing with this pandemic, right? And I know there are places where, you know, there are— the cases have gone down and folks have kind of relaxed and eased, but, you know, really we are still very much in the middle of a pandemic. And so, and it has been accelerated because of the lack of coordinated responses, et cetera, from the top down, right? And so, there has just been You know, I've used this terminology before, Joyce Bender, we played Russian roulette and continue to play Russian roulette with the lives of the American people. And again, the Black folks, Indigenous folks, Latinx folks, and poor folks are bearing the brunt of that. And so, you know, so we're in this for a while, especially since we don't have a vaccine and that, you know, we're not sure how that's even going to play out. We're in this for a while, and we need to act accordingly and put people in office that get that, too, because right now we're in a place where folks, the urgency, I don't see the urgency in trying to move us towards the kind of response that we need.

That urgency is just not present. Yeah. The wearing of the mask And the social distancing sadly has become politicized. And, you know, I'll go someplace and I'll see, uh, all these people, you know, not wearing masks, and I'm not going to wear a mask, you know. And I'm thinking, okay, well, you're just going to help, uh, help to keep this going. Um, I mean, we already know it's going to go through part of next year, but the more people do that, where it's become politicized, you know, the worse it's going to be. Um, and yeah, I know you, you use that term Russian roulette in The Twilight Zone because I tell people that all the time. But you know, when you say to someone— when someone says to me, I don't care, or it's a hoax, or, uh, you know, again, well, okay, talk to a scientist. Talk to someone who knows. But when people say that, that they don't care, I say, okay, well, guess what? The coronavirus doesn't care either. It's going to say that.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's been the— again, what you've said, we— not we, leaders, and particularly the Trump administration, Trump himself politicized this pandemic in a way that is causing harm, right? And that has been just so frustrating and appalling to me as a scientist, where we are literally circumventing data, circumventing science, circumventing the best public health practices and policies for political purposes, right? And that is just, you know, when, again, Literally, lives are at stake, you know, and we're really trying to reduce suffering, reduce death. That's our call in public health, and the what we do and why, you know, we need the data. And the fact that there are literal folks in power, both at the federal level, but also state-level folks in power that are suppressing that process, that means— and I'll say it very bluntly— the blood is on their hands. The blood is on their hands when they have suppressed science, public health practice, and not centered equity and justice in the response. All of that together means that they are responsible for the excess deaths that we are seeing in our communities. And it's just appalling. It's just so appalling that we've come to this point in this country.

Yeah. And you know what that is? That's murder. That— I mean, just as you said about the blood being on your hands. Um, so I mean, we've got to get it together or this will continue and people can continue to die. And then there are Black people in poverty. If you're wondering about this, if you are poor, whether you're white or Black and— or a person of color, if you're all having to stay in one, one home, not a home even, where you're renting because you don't have money. What do you think is going to happen? Or if you are the, uh, single parent or whatever and you're the one on the front lines working, you're the one that has to go. Um, and you know what, I heard, I heard a story yesterday. I absolutely cannot believe it, but it's a true story, is that At some nursing home, the person said, you know, personal attendant said, I have COVID. And they get a call back by the top people there saying, come in anyway, come in through the back door. These are the things which they did. Yeah, they did not. They did not. But these are the things happening to people. And if you're extremely poor, Yeah, what are you gonna do? You don't want to lose your job. I, I mean, I just can't believe people do these things. I, you know, I just absolutely cannot believe it. But Sherelle, before we end the show today, I wanted to give you time to talk about someone I know had a huge impact on you, and that's Marielle Franco. Uh, could you talk about her and why she had such a big impact on you?

Sure. Marielle. So, Marielle Franco. So, I mentioned earlier in the show that I do work— part of my research and work has, over the last few years, has also been in Brazil, right? Because there's a growing body of literature there as well that is linking structural racism to health and health inequities, and I've been able to be a part of that work. So, I've traveled to So I started traveling to Brazil for research in 2016. And I think that— and I will say, as a part of this story, that is a really critical point. 2016 was when some of you all know Dilma Rousseff, the duly elected president of Brazil, was ousted in what is— what many are calling, and I agree, was a coup d'état in 2016. And so that— and so I was starting my work in— and work in Brazil as the democratic institutions in Brazil were beginning to erode. And so fast forward to 2018, I was back in Brazil, in Rio de Janeiro specifically, and because of my work and research, colleagues suggested that I meet a woman by the name of Marielle Franco. Marielle was a Black queer woman who had been born and raised in the favelas, which in Brazil, those are kind of the segregated, the economically and racially segregated parts of the city, literally on the margins or the peripheries of cities. She had grown up there, but her work in human rights activism against state-sanctioned violence and police brutality was just so powerful. She worked alongside elected officials to really document the atrocities of state-sanctioned violence. You know, she herself, in her work as a sociologist and someone who studied public administration, used her thesis to kind of outline the ways in which Black communities in particular are targeted in Brazil. And really, that targeting is not only, you know, a matter of suppressing and criminalizing those communities, but also in an effort to really keep them from the democratic processes that exist, right? And so, our work intersected in so many ways in which I was thinking about how segregation really influences health, and the structures within those communities really has devastating impacts on the health of individuals. And she was thinking about the ways in which, again, we have structured Brazil and other countries have structured our society to literally target Black communities with the kind— level of violence that is just unconscionable. And so, that was her work. And in 2016, she was elected to the local city council in Rio de Janeiro with the 5th highest vote count of the 51 seats that were open in Rio. And this was unprecedented, again, as a Black queer woman from the favelas. To be elected to Rio City Council in that way. And in her— in that seat, she used her platform to, again, amplify the voices of the most marginalized. So she was bringing to City Council the folks who had been left out, the voices who had not been heard. And she intentionally inserted their— that agenda, their voices into what was needed in Rio to really bring about the kind of transformation. So she was talking about things like public infrastructure and transportation. She was talking about things about increasing, you know, health services. And again, you know, not criminalizing these communities, but providing them with the resources necessary so they could thrive. So many parallels in terms of the kinds of work that I've had been doing in public health. And so, in March of 2018, I was there in Rio, and my friend said, "You should attend this event called Young Black Women Moving Power Structures. Marielle Franco is organizing it, and, you know, it will be powerful for you to meet her and some of the other Black women in Rio who are on the front line of anti-racism movements in Brazil." And so, I went. It was March 14th. 2018. I attended the event. There were about 40 or 50 Black women from around Rio there. Marielle facilitated a discussion with some really powerful voices there. And she said two things that stick with me that night. One was, "We are dying. Our people are dying." And what she was referring to was the kinds of ways, again, state sex and violence really target Blacks in particular in Rio. But she also said, "We have to occupy every space with our bodies." And what she meant by that was that the women in the room really represented the kind of transformational power necessary to move Brazil towards a more— a less racist society, that we needed to be occupying "And those two things really stuck with me." And so afterwards had the opportunity to meet Marielle. We joked about our hair and exchanged contact information because, again, her work, her ethos, her commitment to this, you know, to justice for, you know, for the most marginalized was just so powerful. So wanted to stay connected. And then upon leaving the event that night, on March 14th, was literally on a high after having been among those women, powerful, powerful Black women. Within about 1 to 2 hours found out that she had been politically assassinated, 4 bullets to the head in a targeted assassination. And she was killed that very night. And the juxtaposition of that night of powerful Black women being in the same room, of me meeting her, and then the ways in which, again, the racism exists in this world globally to eradicate the voices of those who are the revolutionary voices that it sometimes doesn't want to hear, was just gut-wrenching, and it literally took my breath away. And so, that was a— it was a hard time, hard night in Rio. The next day, though, one of the things that inspired me— and this is what I have seen among Black women from Brazil to the U.S. and around the world— is that it was Black women who were in the streets on the front lines of protests denouncing her assassination. Committing and recommitting to the kind of work that really causes Brazil and other places to be transformed. They were committing and recommitting, even in their pain, to push forward in power. And that moment, that seeing those women, some of whom were with me that night, gave me strength to do the same. And it actually— I think, you know, in that moment, I became very unapologetic about the ways in which I talk about racism and the ways in which I see it as one of the forces that is exacted to, you know, for the demise of Black folks all around the world, and have committed, you know, my career, really, in honor of her work, her sacrifice. But the ways in which her spirit continues to live on in so many of us who dare to live a life of resistance. And so, I am— and one of the things that I'll say is that Marielle was so brilliant. And two things that I think are really critical as we are entering into this election season, because I saw it firsthand in 2018, is that she really wove together the issues of state-sanctioned violence against Black folks against— in Brazil, and the rise of authoritarian governance and the erosion of democracy. And I feel like in this year, for me, having experienced that in 2018 and now seeing what's happening, it's almost like déjà vu, because there, you know, in the wake of her assassination, there were protesting in the streets. And unfortunately, in 2018, although we had— in Brazil you had the most Black women running for public office during that time period, which we're seeing here in the U.S., you still— there was still elected— Bolsonaro was still elected even in the midst of that. And so, I would just pose this as a cautionary tale in this moment that We cannot lose sight of what is— what could happen in November if we do not mobilize in a way, strategically in a way, that gets, you know, that transfers power in this country, because what we have in this current administration, as well as leadership in the U.S. House, U.S. Senate— I mean, in the U.S. Senate and other places, is dangerous. And we are on a slippery slope towards further erosion of democracy. And so, her story intersecting with mine and the ways in which I'm seeing, you know, some similar patterns has just been something that I've been talking about and trying to articulate, because I think it's really critical that we recognize the moment that we're in.

Yes, that is so true, because things have happened already that I never believed could happen. But, um, you know, what did First Lady Michelle Obama say? She said, remember this one thing: if you're wondering if it could get worse, yes, it could. And, um, and it's scary. It really is. It's frightening. It's frightening what could happen when someone's walking down a street shooting a Black man in the back, um, right? And, and everything else with police brutality and people being killed. I mean, it's really frightening. This is why, please listen, mobilize. Please listen to Sherelle. And Sherelle, I just want to tell you, with such Such an honor to have you on the show. You are such an eloquent and articulate speaker, and you have such firepower. And, um, we all admire you, and we all look up to you and know you will continue fighting this fight, and we will be listening and watching you.

Absolutely. Thank you. And just one more thing. I know we have to go, but I cannot get off of this call without just mentioning and saying the name of Breonna Taylor in this moment and how devastating the lack of justice in that case was. And again, a reminder of the ways in which racism is just so rampant and we have to address it again in this country. And so, her murder really in March of 2020 March 13th of this year, and the lack of justice that was rendered last week is just, again, another reason we have to continue to fight and we have to continue to challenge this country, this nation.

Yeah. And I hate to say it, but I will. Imagine if that had been reversed by race. Yes. The whole way. The whole way around. Yes, the whole way around. Um, and you know, yeah, Breonna Taylor, I'm glad you said her name. And I'm glad you remind people that these people do have a name and they are someone's child. Uh, you know, they are someone's wife or husband, but they are someone's child. Um, and thinking about what happened to her is this absolutely Horrific. Well, Sherelle, I have a quote about everything you have said, uh, by an abolitionist, uh, from England that first started this into slavery, William Wilberforce. And this fits everything you were saying today. You may choose to look the other way but you can never say again that you did not know. And that is so true. Uh, Sherelle, thank you again. Uh, you will be on again because it is just— I love you, and I love having you on, and I love your message. And we will be having you on again. And this is Joyce Bender, America's Voice. Where Disability Matters at voiceamerica.com. Talk to you all next week. We're going to talk more about this upcoming election. Talk to you then.

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