Deborah Williamson: Vice President, IWSI Discusses Mission of Organization and Role

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Hello everyone, welcome to Disability Matters with Joyce Bender. I am always excited about this show and I always am thankful for all you listeners throughout the Americas and around the world. We have 131+ countries listening to the show, uh, from Russia to Bulgaria to different countries in Africa. And in some of those, some countries which people may not be familiar with, there's only one listener. But I always say one listener makes a difference because you can spread the news to other people. And how thankful I am for you and Singapore. You are number 2 most listeners after the United States is Singapore. Thank you. Thank you. And you know, I travel around the world with the US State Department. So I've been to Indonesia, Japan, Kazakhstan, South Korea. Panama. So I'm waiting for the day that it's Singapore so I can do a show live from Singapore. But thank you so, so much. Hey, Yoshiko! Special shout out to Yoshiko Dart, my friend, civil rights legend. Love you so much. And you know, every show, Yoshiko, every show. Also, I want to thank Highmark. They are the sponsor of this show. And, you know, Highmark is the company that helped me get started. Now, today they're the third largest healthcare provider. And they have 14 hospitals under the insurance giant. But I want to tell you that it all happened because one night, due to a misdiagnosis of my disability, epilepsy, I had a seizure at a movie theater, fractured my skull, and ended up having life-saving brain surgery. And against all odds, I had this miraculous recovery. And that is when I found out I was living with epilepsy. And so comes Bender Consulting Services 31 years ago with the mission of finding competitive employment for Americans living with disabilities. And so, you know, we have all levels, senior levels, intermediate levels in math, AI, healthcare. As a matter of fact, right now, We have a lot of opportunity in healthcare, some of which is paid training by the hospital. So if you are looking for a job, you know, go to benderconsult.com and send in your resume today. That's benderconsult.com. And it's because we have so many great people that are fighting the fight for us. And one of them, Deborah Williamson, the Vice President of IWSI America, was kind enough to be on the show with us today. Deborah, it is a pleasure to have you on the show. I read your bio and such an impressive background at the Kentucky Court of Justice, so many senior roles, and then you went on to do all this work. And when I read about you and thought about what young people with disabilities go through in the justice system, I said, wow, I was really impressed. And I thank you for being with us on the show today. But my listeners always ask, oh, I wish I knew more about your guest. And by the way, anyone listening to the show today, Spotify, Apple, Amazon, almost every social media platform, including benderconsult.com and voiceamerica.com. You can listen to this show, or you can post it for someone else to hear. Any of them, all my guests, Spotify, Apple, Amazon, go to them all. You'll be able to hear Deborah. So Deborah, let's hear about your background, like where you grew up and went on to you know, pursued the career that you have now?

Well, thank you so much for having me on the show. I'm excited to be with you, excited to share with your audience. So I grew up 8 miles south of Cincinnati, Ohio, in northern Kentucky, in a little town called Cold Springs. And I pursued education at the University of Cincinnati. In the social sciences, and then ultimately at the University of Kentucky in the social sciences and education. So that's a little bit about my background. I, I was very fortunate when I was at the University of Cincinnati to make a connection with the Kentucky Supreme Court clerk. And at that juncture, it was around 1985, '86, um, the court had just won legislation to start a statewide juvenile justice program under the Unified Juvenile Code. Prior to the code being passed by the state legislature, each individual county in Kentucky of which there are 120, had its own juvenile system. This code unified procedures for the processing of juveniles who had been taken into custody by law enforcement, or if a complaint had been filed. And so I was fortunate to be hired, and part of the role was to serve as— I started as a juvenile intake officer. That's where this all started. And it was just absolutely phenomenal. We were on call 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and I responded to all of the law enforcement agencies in the Northern Kentucky, Greater Cincinnati area after hours. We carried a pager that— I hope some people still know what a pager is. And we would respond when officers had taken young people into custody after hours. And our goal was to use uniform legal criteria and be able to release nonviolent offenders back to their parents or to their guardians. And if that wasn't possible, then obviously there would be a detention situation with a hearing the next day. So that's where all of this started. So that's sort of the after-hours aspect of the juvenile program. But then during the day, after the detention hearings, we would, work with young people who had an infraction. More serious offenders were referred on to the district court for processing by a judge. But the lesser offenders, of which at that time there were running about 40,000 a year statewide, we would enter into what was called, and is still called, a diversion agreement. And what we would do to rectify an offense is we would set up educational programs for young people about, somehow related to the offense that they had been charged with. We would allow them to provide community service at nonprofit agencies throughout the greater Cincinnati area. And this is statewide program. This is when I'm an intake officer up north. And we would resolve their complaint. We would monitor their progress and ensure that there were no additional violations. And the whole time I was with the agency, the Court of Justice, we had about a 90% success rate with young people adhering to those diversion contracts and not going on to reoffend. So it was really something. And I just, I really, I can't tell you how much I enjoyed that process. And so that's, that's my beginning of my career.

Now, did you, you know, like how when some young people are graduating from high school or just starting college, how they'll say, this is what I want to do, you know? Is that how you feel? I want to be in social work, or what were you— or I want to teach. I mean, what were you thinking?

So, you know, I worked when I was at the University of Cincinnati. I worked part-time at a housing project in Northern Kentucky, and I think that was the impetus to head down the path. I saw so many people who had basic needs, and I thought I had many good conversations with the young people in the housing project and their parents. And so when I learned about the Supreme Court's effort to operationalize this Unified Juvenile Code and had some conversations with attorneys about what that would look like and how I might be able to benefit communities and young people in specific. That was sort of the ticket. And I can tell you, it was just really, it was just so wonderful and so, just so rewarding. So about a year into it, I was about a year into being an intake officer in Cincinnati and Cincinnati area. And they, they made me a supervisor statewide. And so what I was then able to do was to travel the state and talk about this new code and how it should work and the benefits of having a unified process that would handle young people. And we just, we had about 140 intake officers. And so I worked with each one of them on improving their programs for young people, their services in the community for young people. So that's, that's where it all started. And then ultimately, about 2 years into it, I was made general manager of the program. And so then had the ability to oversee the statewide effort.

Mm-hmm. Well, yeah. You did lead statewide initiatives to advance justice, education, and policies across the state. Tell us what you did. What all did you do there?

Oh, my goodness. That could be a while.

You can give us some highlights.

I'll give you the highlights. I won't dwell. So, one of the things that we did, we were successful in getting the first statewide computer system from the legislature. To house all of the juvenile records. Prior to that, we used tracking cards and files to handle them, and the legislature gave us some money to get started with a program. And so I'm quite proud of that. So that's one thing. We obviously worked with the legislature every year while I was general manager, worked with our general counsel to ensure that the policies that we had on the books were fair. We, one of the things that I did want to tell you about, probably about 10 years into it, we worked with the Certified Board of Prevention Specialists to train all of the intake officers in fetal alcohol syndrome awareness. Of which about 19%, I believe, currently folks with fetal alcohol end up somehow in the justice system. And so we worked with the Board of Professionals, Prevention Professionals, to train the intake officers on that, to train the judges on that particular program. And the intake officers actually got about 37 hours of training on FASD and, and brought a lot of awareness to that issue. So that's an example. We did a lot of civic education efforts with students and schools. We did that not only in the state but nationally and internationally. My goodness, the list is quite long. So just to give you an idea.

Wow. You know, those things you can be proud of. I'm sitting here thinking, what? All those juveniles on index cards. Wow. Talk about hard to keep track of. Yeah. Thank goodness you were able to get them to get you that computer. So I wanted to ask you about your experience in juvenile. Justice, have you like seen any trends for youth with disabilities, for example? Because I do run into an increase in incarceration for high school students with learning disabilities or some other type of intellectual disabilities. And a friend of mine from Yale, said, well, if you graduate from high school and you've gone through school with a learning disability and probably have not had the necessary accommodations, a great percentage will end up in jail and/or prison because you're very angry when you can't read. I mean, it's more involved than that. That's just, you know, what she was saying. Summarized it. What do you see? Do you see that, or, you know, what is your perspective?

We did, and I think that was part of the impetus behind the code, was making sure that younger people, individuals with disabilities included, were given an opportunity not to be incarcerated through diversion. Particularly for the minor offenders. I think that was, that was a big part of it, was to make sure they had other options that would resolve whatever complaint had been filed on them, whatever citation had been issued, in a meaningful way that would change life's trajectory. So I think that is what the code was about, was to find an alternate path for the vast majority of young people who had an encounter with law enforcement. And I'm really proud of that. That network was solid and is solid. And I think that's something that the Commonwealth of Kentucky can be exceptionally proud of. And so your, your question, that's actually one of the reasons that we connected with the Certified Board of Prevention Professionals was to address some of that and to educate not only the intake officers of, again, that's a large population that was 140 people statewide, but also to address the judicial network and talk about it and find alternate paths as opposed to detention.

So yes. Yes, we have a judge in Pennsylvania who's very disability-oriented, and that's one of the things, you know, that he's trying to educate others about. For example, if you have, like me, epilepsy, there are certain types of seizures that if you approach the person or push the person trying to talk to them, they, they could strike back at you. And then here we go, if they do that with a police officer, there we go to jail for assaulting an officer, even if it was not a major thing that happened. And same thing for people who are deaf. You know, they're not answering your questions because they can't hear or they can't verbalize. And then there they go. They're involved in something. So I am so appreciative of what you did. I wish they had that everywhere because I know there are many people, victims themselves and/or parents, uh, listening to the show right now that are very thankful.

Well, thank you. As I said, it was incredibly rewarding. I'm very proud to have been a part of that for a very long time. I was with that particular court for, I think, just about 24 years, um, and it was just, um, it was wonderful. It was a wonderful experience. So for young people listening who are looking for a career path, don't overlook the systems. They have a lot of innovative programs like the one I've just described. So it was a great path forward for me to where I am now.

Where, where could they read more about that, or should they just go to a website for the state, you know, to find out about those jobs?

Sure. So here in the Commonwealth, of course, the ABA is always a great source. State judiciaries are always a great source. In the Commonwealth, it's the Administrative Office of the Courts and the Division of Juvenile Services. Those listings would be there for careers. The particular role is called a court-designated worker, which is essentially an intake officer. And that's the role I just described to you. So very, very worth checking out and definitely one of life's best rewards to have that experience working with young people and watching them grow, turn around, get a job, come back to you and say, hey, I followed your trajectory, I got a job, I'm all excited, you know, it's working. So yeah, absolutely a good start. Yes, ma'am.

And with that, we are going to go to break before we have Mathis on the mic, our news report. So right now you have been listening to Deborah Williamson, Vice President of IWSI America, which we'll be talking about shortly. You know, anyone you think should hear this show, remember, you can get the show right from— actually on YouTube, you can get the show, but make sure you get this show and share it with others. This is Joyce Joyce Bender, America's Voice, Where Disability Matters, at voiceamerica.com. Don't go away, we'll be right back with Deborah.

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You're listening to Disability Matters. Now please welcome back the host of Disability Matters, Here's Joyce Bender.

Hey everyone, welcome back. If you just tuned in, we're talking to Deborah Williamson, the Vice President at IWSI, and it's just been delightful to have her as our guest today. I'm so glad I read about her. While I say that, actually, Deborah, do you speak at different places?

I do, and I have. Yeah.

Okay. How does someone reach you for that?

Sure. Anyone can email at dwilliamson@iwsiamérica.org and I'll get right back with you.

How about giving us that one more time?

Sure. dwilliamson@iwsiamérica.org. Be glad to connect. All right.

Well, Deb, since we're talking about this IWSI work skills Innovation America. What a great name that is. What is it? What is that organization and what do you do there?

Absolutely happy to share. Funny you should ask. So it started when I was still with the Commonwealth of Kentucky. I met the CEO from IWSI, Nicholas Wyman. He came to work with us on a project to get apprenticeships started for young people people throughout the Commonwealth. So that's where it began. IWSI focuses on workforce with a heavy emphasis on registered apprenticeships, pre-apprenticeships. A lot of people think it's just for young people. It isn't. I have had folks as old as 59, 65 participating in apprenticeships, wanting a change in career trajectories. We, we work with businesses to establish apprenticeships or pre-apprenticeships to fill their skills need. We work with young people who are looking for a career, who aren't certain about the trajectory that they want to pursue. We've been doing that in the US for about 15 years. However, we have programs in Australia, have worked in Western Europe, the Philippines, Canada, and again throughout the United States. So Our goal is to give a meaningful career path, largely an apprenticeship, to folks who are looking for a career trajectory or to change their career trajectory. So that is in a nutshell what we do.

Wow. So now, are they trained when they go there, or do you just find them these opportunities?

So we do work with employers who have an interest or a skills need. Some of them want to register their own apprenticeship program with U.S. Department of Labor. Others want us to help them start a program. So we do a little bit of all of it. Absolutely. Absolutely. And then the young people. So working through the U.S. Department of Labor, there is a requirement of instruction, or required training instruction, as it's called, RTI, to whereby the young person would take courses relevant to the career path they've chosen alongside the on-paid, on-the-job training.

So, so I'll tell you what, I could see this exploding. Yes. Why I'm saying that, I was just talking about this this morning at a school that I spoke at that does a lot in trades. And I said, let me tell you what, you need to pursue. If you don't, of course, you know, aspire to go to college or do something else, that's great. But if not, people with a background in plumbing, HVAC, carpentry, electricians, there are welders, there are so much out there right now. Why? From building all the data centers, you know, all across America. They're building data centers. Why is that? Is because that's how you power AI. And so, I mean, I can't begin to tell you from right here in Pittsburgh where I'm headquartered, they're building a data center about 15 minutes or 20 minutes north of Pittsburgh and it's everywhere. So anyway, some of those people with experience make $100,000. A year. And I'm thinking you're going to be so busy because companies are going to be coming to you saying, how can we do a program around this? And, you know, when I grew up, I got to tell you that my dad owned a garage. He was a mechanic, you know, auto body shop and an inspection station. And back then, when you would say Oh, what's your dad do? And, oh, he owns a garage. And, oh, what's your dad do? Oh, he works at the steel mill. How about yours? Oh, he's an electrician. I hate to say it, but that was like, but not a college-educated person. Now we have had a flip. We've had a big flip because college students can't get a job. And people with this trade background or journeymen women are so sought after. It's amazing what has happened. Absolutely. And I'm sure you already know this, but I'm just saying I could see it really taking off. Have you already started to see this, Deborah?

We are busy. We have been busy for a while and not just in the trades.

Oops, you're there.

I'm here. There, there. Sorry. Not just in the trades, in a lot of non-traditional sectors. I have apprentices who have gone through education routes and are classroom assistants, classroom teachers. I have apprentices who have been dispensing opticians. I have apprentices in culinary. So yes, it's across the board now. It's really exciting. There has been a slight downturn recently, but I don't think that's here to stay at all. I think it will pick back up. And so I'm quite excited about the apprenticeship sphere that I work in.

Yeah, I agree with you. I agree 100%. Okay. Well, if a company is interested in working with IWSI, What should they do?

Absolutely reach out to me. You have my email. We'd be delighted to talk with you and show you the many pathways where you can enter an apprenticeship or a pre-apprenticeship, or even use our referrals from the Department of Rehabilitation, just as straight hires. We'd be more than glad to have conversations, help you share our literature. We have a wealth of literature. And so please reach out and we'll, we'll definitely contact you.

Now, do you have people then that you can refer to these companies? Do you have candidates you can refer?

Yes. So since about 2019, 2020, we've been working with the California Department of Rehabilitation. Their employment chief employment officer reached out to us, said, I've heard about what you're doing. I've heard about apprenticeships. We're trying to bring apprenticeship to our agency. Because of the clients that we serve. And so we actually started a pilot program with the California Department of Rehabilitation to take their clients and place them in apprenticeships. It was a small experiment to start in Orange County, and that was— we worked on it. We worked on the planning phase and the curriculum, etc., for a couple of years. And then in the spring of 2022, we opened up acceptance for referrals into the their chief officer wanted to work in healthcare sector. And so we pursued about 21 new occupations in healthcare, allied health, in the Orange County and East LA areas. And we worked with about 135 clients to start, and it was really successful. And so they came back to us in the last year and asked if we would expand it statewide. So we do, we are taking currently their candidates and working with them on some pre-apprenticeship just to get them ready for the workplace, their resumes, their portfolios, interviewing skills, dress for success, all of those kind of things, and then referring them on to businesses. So yes, we do take referrals from the department.

Oh, that is great. And once again, now, if a person is interested in getting involved, on your website, is there a differentiation, or is there just like a contact us?

Yes, absolutely. So there's info@iwsiamerica.org. You can do that. You can reach directly out to me. And there's a couple of other places on our website where you can reach us directly. So please feel free.

Good. Well, folks, it is time for Mathis on the Mic. With Jennifer Mathis. Hello there, Jennifer. Hi. It's always great to see you.

Yes, likewise. It's great to meet you.

I know you always have a hard time finding something to talk about.

Yes, it's not too hard these days.

Yeah, I know. Well, what news do you have for us today, Jennifer?

So I wanted to highlight a court filing that was made last night, and this is a filing challenging, um, HHS's Section 504 regulation and most particularly its Olmstead provisions, its provisions requiring community integration for people with disabilities. Um, Specifically, this is something that we've talked about before. It's a case that Texas and a number of other states have brought challenging HHS's rule. They originally filed this case in late 2024, and since then, a number of the states dropped out. There were originally 17 states. Then 8 of them dropped out and a new complaint was filed in January with the remaining 9 states. Now 2 more states have dropped out, so we're down to 7 states. But this new version of the complaint is really laser-focused on Olmstead and the obligation in in Olmsted, in law, in this rule for public entities, states, local governments to administer services to people with disabilities in the most integrated setting appropriate. And that's something that has been in law for decades. Texas is saying that this is a brand new surprise, even though it has been in the regulations since 1978. And there have been many, many cases brought by the Justice Department, brought by the Protection and Advocacy agencies, brought by the rest of us over many, many years. This is well-established law, but Texas is saying there is no right to have services in the most integrated setting They're making a bunch of other different legal arguments about why the rule they think is unconstitutional and why it violates the Administrative Procedures Act. And the bottom line is they're asking the courts to get rid of the whole rule. And so I— we have talked about this case before. I think it is important, particularly if you are in one of the 7 states, um, and I will tell you what those are. Those are Texas, Alaska, Florida, Kansas, Louisiana, Missouri, and Montana. If you were in one of those states, I think letting the governor know, letting the Attorney General know that people with disabilities are upset that they are challenging the integration mandate, that they're challenging Olmstead, um, and they're challenging, in fact, the entire 504 rule, which is very, very broad. It applies to lots and lots of different areas. Um, they're asking the court to get rid of the entire rule, which applies to medical discrimination, it applies to web accessibility, it applies to any education, it applies to any number of, of areas, and they're saying basically get rid of the whole thing. But in particular, I think they are asking the court to say that Olmstead doesn't mean what we all think it means. And this is in Texas, Northern District of Texas, it's in the Fifth Circuit. I think this is designed to go before a court that has been particularly challenging, particularly hostile to disability rights. And so we are very, very concerned about it. And having folks go to their attorneys general, to the governors, to let them know that they're upset about this and that they would like those states to get off of this lawsuit. That would be helpful. As I said, there are already, uh, first 8 states and then another 2, so 10 states have dropped out of this lawsuit. Um, there are 7 left, and we would like to get rid of as many of those as possible because I think that sends a message.

Yes, and you know, you've all had an impact from Jennifer's leadership. You need to make those calls. Don't wait till it impacts, if not you, one of your family members. Now, I do have one question about this. Do you view this as more, okay, if someone goes to court and says we're discriminating here, we now can say no, we aren't? Or do you see it more like them taking aggressive action if they find feel that someone is, you know, saying I need to go to a facility, you know, not to a facility, to some community living, or like, do you think it will get to the place they would try to shut down community living? That's what I'm getting to.

Yeah, I mean, I think that if there is a decision from the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals where this could potentially go, um, at some point that says Olmsted doesn't mean all the things that we said that we all have all thought it means over the years, and that it's very, very narrow. And for example, they say it doesn't mean that you have the right to live in the most integrated setting, but it's not— there's no most integrated setting requirement.— that is purely about institutionalization versus not being institutionalized, and no more. And so that's a very narrow interpretation of the law. If that were to hold sway, and obviously that would be in the Fifth Circuit, this could go up to the Supreme Court, in which case it would hold for the whole country. But even if it's just in the Fifth Circuit, that's that's a bunch of states that I care about. And, you know, and then that has influence over other courts as well and what they think the law means. And so, um, it just has the potential to, I think, dramatically cut back on what people's rights are.

So I don't know what would happen here because if you know how people are used to, then okay, I'm not community setting, I'm in a skilled nursing facility. How would they do that with Medicaid cuts? That, you know, this is the main way nursing homes, right, receive payment. Then what would happen? That's, you know what I mean?

Yeah, well, I mean, the irony is that with the Medicaid cuts, I think, you know, certainly states are in a hard position. They have a lot less federal money coming in. But that to me is a good reason to invest in the community rather than in institutions, because community is not just better for people generally, it's, it's also less costly in almost every case. And so you can serve a lot more people when you are investing in the community than in you can when you are investing in institutions. So this is actually, I think, a hard time to talk about really doubling down on institutionalizing people. It's a very expensive kind of care and it's mostly not what people want. But I, you know, this is, this is something that is really a bottom line fundamental issue for the disability community. So So this is really a pretty significant attack.

Yeah. Well, Jennifer, please, thank you for this news. Now, you heard her, especially if you live in those states. Jennifer, will there be something about this ultimately on the Bazelon website or DREDF somewhere?

There will. And yesterday, yesterday, yeah, there was. We put out a statement because Indiana pulled itself off of the brief. And so we highlighted that or pulled itself out of the lawsuit. I should say, rather than off the brief. And it looks like South Dakota is doing that today, or at least they were not on the brief that got filed last night. So it looks like they will be removing themselves as well. But there will be briefs that the disability community is filing. And so I think some of the big groups will be on some of those briefs.

And so I would go to bazelon.org/aap. Jdpd.com, dredf.org. I would go to Disability Rights Education Defense Fund and read about this, but get fired up. Jennifer, thank you, and we'll talk to you next week.

Thank you, take care.

Well, I bet you knew a lot about understanding this, huh, since you're in the court system. You understand what all of that means. But that, oh my goodness, that could be catastrophic for people. But I want to talk about something good. Ready, Willing, and Able. What is that?

Yes. So Ready, Willing, and Able is— I just started to describe it before we heard from Jennifer. So that is the name of the little pilot project that we launched in Orange County in 2022. And that was placing the individuals from the department, California Department of Rehabilitation, into those allied health jobs. And so now, as of July, the department came back to us and they've— last July, they came back to us and they said, we'd like to expand this statewide where it was in Orange County and East LA before. So now Ready, Willing, and Able is a focus on apprenticeship and pre-apprenticeship programs and connecting them with employers. But now it's not just in allied health. So the department has said, let's try all of the marketable occupations statewide. So now we're work— looking to work with employers in IT, in advanced manufacturing, in hospitality, in agriculture. And so that's our current thrust. We had a kickoff meeting in Riverside and San Bernardino back in mid-September. And so now we're in pursuit of employers who will work with us and hire our clients on a statewide basis. And again, it could be a pre-apprenticeship, it could be an apprenticeship, or it could be a straight hire. So that's what the team is currently pursuing with great enthusiasm. And we absolutely love working with the department and their counselors. They've been phenomenal resources for us. They've helped with things like wraparound services beyond the employment piece. So we're very grateful for our relationship, long-term relationship with the DOR, and love working with the clients.

I think what you're doing is phenomenal. Absolutely. And again, Deborah Williamson is with IWSI, Workplace Skills and Innovation America, I'm assuming is a dot org. Yes, ma'am. Okay. So, you know, any businesses? I know I at Bender Leadership Academy are not-for-profit high school students with disabilities. We are all about, as I said earlier, encouraging working in trades and other areas, not just, you know, college-bound. And I think, I think this is great. I think it's wonderful. I do. I think it's wonderful.

Well, thank you so much. You already— I'm sorry, go ahead. No, please go.

You were saying that in the business world, you could partner with IWSI if you just get in touch with the website. Is that right?

Yeah, or email me directly. I talk to employers every day. Would be happy to talk to somebody interested in working with us on hiring the candidates that we have, working with us on establishing a registered apprenticeship program, or working with us on a straight hire. Yes, we're most anxious to connect with employers.

Okay. So, Deborah, um, over the past couple years, what would you consider your greatest accomplishment at IWSI?

Oh my goodness, we've had so many great projects. Um, beyond the Department of Rehabilitation, which has been absolutely wonderful as I've said repeatedly. We currently work with the U.S. Forest Service, and we're working on a forest technician, and that would be a first apprenticeable occupation, I think, in about 40 years for U.S. Division of Forestry. And so that should be right around the corner. So that would be a major accomplishment in my mind. We also worked extensively with the Interstate Renewable Energy Council, and had a phenomenal time with wind power, hydro power, other sources of alternatives, and that went extremely well. We've got a lot to be proud of. We've had some phenomenal, phenomenal initiatives. We're currently working with the State Department of Apprenticeship Services, getting ready to launch another apprenticeship piece. So there's a lot to list. There's a lot to be proud of. However, we don't rest on our laurels because there's a a lot of work to do to educate folks about what we do, to educate folks about the benefit of apprenticeship, to stir enthusiasm among young people who are just not sure about which direction they want to go to. So yes, those are some of our accomplishments. And we're on our website. You can read about a lot of our reports that sort of highlight these efforts that we've been pursuing for the last 3 to 5 years., and stay in touch with us. We'd be happy to chat with you about it.

Well, that, that is great. Now, in case someone calls in and asks this question, you get the majority of your candidates, if you want to call them that, from rehabilitation. Do you get other people also? Do people just apply, or how does that work?

It depends on the project. For the Ready, Willing, and Able, ABLE. That is a California Department of Rehabilitation program. And so if somebody is not already with the department, doesn't have an open case with the department, all they have to do is apply online and then tell them they want to participate in Ready, Willing, and ABLE. And we've had several folks come through that way. So that is absolutely fine.

Yes. Do they have to have a disability to apply or be referred Do you?

I believe most of them do have a disability. Yes. And it's the gamut, you know, it's a gamut of folks that come to us. Again, as I said, in the pilot, we had people who were just starting out on their career trajectory, 18 years old, and then we had some folks who were 59, 60 years old working with us. So we have a gamut of folks.

Well, of course, I'm all about disability employment. That's what I do. So I think it's great that you're doing that.

Thank you so much.

And always remember, people with disabilities have great ability. And may I say, when I go to a company, if they say, "Oh, Joyce, I'm so glad you came. We need to start hiring people with disabilities," I say, "Oh, but you already have. Yeah, they're at your company right now. They have depression." PTSI, bipolar disorder, epilepsy, MS, migraines, kidney disease, diabetes. I could go on and on. It's just they aren't telling you, but they are there. I said, so always remember, no matter what you think about people with disabilities and their skills, some of your very top performers Americans have disabilities, 1 in 4. So, you know, people seem to think like unless you're blind or in a wheelchair or deaf, that's what they think of when they think of disabilities. But there are people like me— Exactly. —with apparent disabilities that are learning disabilities. You know, we could go on forever, but I think that that people have to realize how much value they're gaining from working with you. So, Deborah, obviously you are a passionate individual and very nice, may I say. Thank you. Someone had to influence you. Oh, who would you say is your role model?

Oh my goodness, there are many. There are many professors, certainly. But now you're going to say, what? Um, it's a little bit of a So at my undergraduate institution, one of my professors worked closely with Jane Goodall, and I had the privilege of meeting and working with her on several occasions. And so I think her resilience and her message of hope globally did more to influence me. Never give up, always approach people with kindness, open-mindedness. Be innovative, don't tire. That message from her is just— it's etched in my heart forever. So if I had to pick one of the many people who've influenced me from all walks of life, I would say Jane did a number on me real early.

I mean, what a great—

oh, oh, she was incredible. Yeah, she She was just so down to earth with the students and, you know, took all of our crazy questions with a great deal of patience and was just so inspiring. And of course, you know, the work she did. So I would say just based on an up close and personal with her on multiple occasions, that did it for me.

Talk about courage and no fear. That's exactly what gorillas in the wild— that is no fear. Yeah, yeah, that is amazing. Well, you picked a great role model.

Well, thank you.

Well, Deborah, we are coming to the end of the show, but we end every show with a quote. And the quote today is, "You may be disappointed if you fail, but you are doomed if you don't try," said Beverly Seales. How true that is. Thank you again. I wish you all the best, and I hope people get in touch with you that listen to the show, I will say in the words of Mary Brooker, when you get up tomorrow, remember, choose joy. You won't be disappointed. Talk to you all next week.

Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific time and 2 PM Eastern time for another installment of Disability Matters right here on the Voice America Variety Channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.