Disability Rights Activist, and Author, Emily Ladau

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Hi everyone, welcome to the show today and to all of you around the world. You know, I was just looking earlier today at all of these countries that are listening to the show. You know, we still, of course, have our largest listening audience in China. China, whoever you people are, keep spreading the news, keep telling people about this show. You're awesome. Australia, same thing. United Kingdom. And then I want to move down to Egypt and Mongolia. Do you know Mongolia has one— Mongolia has one person, Egypt has two listening to this show. You know what I say, one or two, you can make a big difference. Keep getting people that are English-speaking to listen to this show. I am so, so appreciative. And of course, all of our listeners in the United States. And for those around the world, Richard Roberts, Cheryl Harris, Vinh Amin, Gang Young, uh, all of you, you're great disability rights advocates. I always am thinking of you. And every show past, I don't know, maybe 5 years or more, every show I give a special shout out to Yoshiko Dart. And Yoshiko, oh, I bet you love our guest today. And I know you are mentioned in her book, but I want to say, and you know, it's something when I read this in her book, Emily's book, I thought about the reason I tell our listeners I do this, because our disability history is not as important as other groups. I couldn't believe it when I read her book, like, who knows Justin Dart? So therefore, that, Emily, is why I do this, because I'm trying to get people to remember Justin Dart, the great general, and of course Yoshiko, who is still and always will be a great leader for people with disabilities. And I can't forget Highmark, who has been the lead sponsor of this show for several years. Sponsors, and I mean lead sponsor. David Holmberg is so awesome. And hey, he's going to be on my show coming up in February, the second Tuesday in February. Now, this brings me to my guest. Oh my goodness, I was so excited. I'm not kidding you. Like, I was so eager to do this show today because it is Emily Ledao. Is that how you pronounce it, Emily?

It sure is.

Emily Liddell, author, blogger, national disability rights leader, and oh, we're going to be talking about her book a lot as we move on. But first, if you read her book, which you should, called Demystifying Disability, she talked about herself. And I always like to hear the story of people, you know, what caused them to become an advocate. Many people have a disability, but they don't all become advocates. So, Emily, let's hear your story, like where you were raised, went to school, and why you became an advocate.

Sure. And also, thank you so much for having me, Joyce Bender. I'm just so excited to be here and to talk with you, and I'm very, very grateful for your support of the book. And I would love to share a little bit about myself. So, as you mentioned, I'm Emily Widow. I am a disability rights activist and an author of Demystifying Disability: What to Know, What to Say, and How to Be an Ally. And I identify as someone with a physical disability. I was born with a genetic condition called Larsen syndrome. My mother and her younger brother, my uncle, I have it as well. And so disability has always very much been a part of my life, but it wasn't really until I was 10 years old when I appeared on several episodes of Sesame Street to educate kids and their caregivers about my life as someone with a physical disability that I really realized the power of advocacy. Through that and through watching my mom advocate and from her teaching me how to be my own best advocate, I became very, very passionate about speaking up for myself, for being a disability advocate. In college, I thought I was going to be a high school English teacher, and then suddenly I realized that I wanted to devote my life to advocacy, and so I pivoted directions and began the journey of writing and sharing my story and learning the stories of so many other disabled people and amplifying their stories. And it's become my deepest passion, my career, and really what gets me out of bed in the morning.

Well, thank goodness it does, because that's why we have your fire that you have, Emily. And you know, when you were growing up with a disability, oh my goodness, I read this story about your mom encountering ableism with a very hurtful woman. And that says so much about what I'm fighting against stigma, which I believe is why people with disabilities have such a high unemployment. So, Emily, I wanted to ask you if you would not mind sharing that story with our listeners.

Absolutely. And you're so right, there's such a deep-seated stigma toward people with disabilities, and there's this misunderstanding about disability that it's something bad or negative or scary or something that we should be ashamed of, rather than recognizing it as part of a person's identity and as part of history and culture. And so, when I was growing up, not only did I experience ableism, but I often experienced ableism while I would be out and about with my mother, who, as I mentioned, shares the same disability that I do. And so, I don't have a recollection of this story, but it is one that I have heard many times from my mom when I was very little and I was out with her and a woman took a look at us and she said, "Look at what that mom did to her baby." And that's the kind of thing that you carry with you, this belief that that to pass on disability, to be disabled is a bad thing, when really it's just another part of what makes a person who they are. And so, I carry stories like that with me, and I carry so many experiences of stigma and discrimination with me. And in many cases, that is what drives me to bridge the gaps that we have in knowledge and understanding of disability. And to really make the disability experience more accessible and understandable for everyone.

Oh, yeah, I read that story. Oh, that was horrible. That was horrible. And as I said, such an example of stigma. And, you know, there are many other disabilities that have genetics like epilepsy, which I have, but also people who are deaf. And yet, you would never picture anyone saying that. And that is because people are different. Like me, everyone's okay, but if I had a seizure, they wouldn't be okay. So, you know, this is the stigma that we are fighting against. And that, as I said, I believe is the reason that people with disabilities have this high unemployment. And now we get to my favorite topic. Oh my goodness, Demystifying Disability is fantastic. Like, you know what, it's not often— well, I mean, I love to read mysteries, classics, and nonfiction. But this book, oh, I could not put this book down. I love this book. I mean, it's so awesome. And again, it's called Demystifying Disability by Emily Ladau, L-A-D-A-U. So Emily, you could tell I love this book. So what made you write it and what do you hope it will accomplish? And then you can tell our listeners how to buy it. So let's start with what made you decide one day I'm going to write this book?

Well, I'm so happy to be able to talk about this book, and it's truly been a project filled with love and passion for me. And in terms of what made me decide to write it, I actually appeared on a podcast a few years back, and a literary agent was listening to that podcast. And she realized that she had read some of my writing before. So she reached out to me and she said, "Have you ever thought of writing a book?" And so initially I thought I would write a book that shares the story of what it's like to be the disabled daughter of a disabled mother. But as things began to take shape, my agent said, "Hey, "Hey, what about writing a book more specifically about filling some of the gaps in knowledge around disability?" Because she said, "That's what you do in so much of your work now anyway." And so, from there, the project grew into Demystifying Disability because that is what I love to do. I love to meet people where they're at to engage in conversations about the disability experience. And of course, I do all that with the caveat that I am one disabled person. I don't speak for the whole community. I recognize that I am a white, physically disabled woman who has immense privilege, as much as I also experience marginalization.. And so, you know, for me, writing this book was never about writing the encyclopedia of disability or the Bible of disability. It was one woman's attempt to begin conversations and to offer people a starting point for having dialogues around disability that they may otherwise be unsure how to engage in.

Well, it is so good. You know what I love about this book? It covers so many things. Yes, it helps fill the gaps, but it helps fill the gaps in really, uh, it isn't— I mean, you do tell the correct language to use and all of that, which is so important, but you also talk about ableism, and you also talk about what people with disabilities could do to be helpful. And you also talk about how people with disabilities, you know, need to not be ashamed of their disability and the history and just so much. It's just such a great book. I, I really would recommend. I don't think I have ever had anyone on the show in how long now, 18 years, where I raved about a book this much. So, you know, for me, that's a big deal. Emily Ladau, L-A-D-A-U, Demystifying Disability. So, what do you hope that's going to accomplish? What do you hope that will cause from your readers?

My greatest hope is that it changes the conversation that we're having about disability. Because if we don't have some of the foundational understandings of language and disability and what disability even is, and if we don't understand ableism and accessibility and a little bit about the history and the culture, etiquette, how is it represented in the media, if we don't have these conversations to begin with, we can't change the conversation. My hope is that this book will offer people that entry into the conversations we need to be having about disability. In turn, my hope is that that will begin to move the needle in so many areas. One that both you and I are passionate about, of course, is employment. The book so far has really been resonating a lot in the corporate space, I think, because there is clearly a desire in so many cases to live up to diversity and equity and inclusion, but we can't do that if we're not bringing disability into the conversation. But we're often afraid of bringing disability into the conversation because we think we're going to get it wrong. And so, this book is a tool tool that you can use to begin to educate yourself or to, you know, get some questions answered in a non-judgmental space, and then use that and apply that to actually include disability when you are talking about diversity, equity, and inclusion. So I hope that it is just one more tool that people can put in their resource box when it comes to really creating a more inclusive and accessible world for everybody.

Well, again, I think it's awesome. So how do you buy it? Where do you get the book, Emily?

There are lots of options. You can get it on Amazon. You can get it at your local bookstore, or you can get it on BookSellers. Bookshop.org or IndieBound. I like to promote independent bookstores whenever possible. There's also an audio version available which you can get, and of course a digital version available. And then on my website, I offer a free plain language translation of the book so that people may need— so that if people may need more cognitive for accessibility, you can access it that way. If you're looking to borrow rather than buy, of course your local library, but it's also available through Bookshare, which provides accessible books, as well as the National Library Service for the Blind and Print Disabled. So there's lots of different ways that you can access the book.

What is the website, Emily?

You can access it through my website to find out all of the places that you can get the book, and that's just emilyladdow.com.

Emilyladdow.com. And I would suggest everyone go there. I want to, I want to tell you a couple things. First, Emily, you know, I read in the book, as I already alluded to, where you mentioned 'Oh, you will know Harriet Tubman and different people, but do you know, uh, Justin Dart or Yoshiko or Anita Cameron? Do you know those people?' And this is really bothers me. That's why I— every show I have the shout out to Yoshiko. That's why I do that. And, uh, You know, I don't know, but we got to figure out how to do something about this. I know you mentioned in West Virginia they did do something. Is that right?

Yes, yes. So there are states that are working to require implementation of disability history into their curricula, but this definitely is not something that is as widespread as it should be. I know I know for sure when I was growing up, disability was not talked about at all in any of my history classes. So, I knew nothing about the fact that I had a history as a disabled person until much later in life when I began connecting with other disabled people who really began to teach and inform me about the disability rights movement. And so, I now am very, very passionate about trying to change the conversation so that we start talking about disability in the classroom to kids at a young age and to incorporate that as a very natural part of our broader history and the conversations that we need to be having about the world around us.

Well, I talked to Marcy Roth and Terry Hartman, and I think I mentioned it to Maria Town, but We talked about this, and you know, I have no problem giving podcasts to any organization that could, because then you could hear a show with Marca Bristow. And by the way, do you know that's one of the most listened to shows? The great disability rights leader that we lost many years ago, Marca, I think everyone knows her by Marca. And if you go to voiceamerica.com, you know, you can go back and hear that show. I think it was in 2014, I think, but it's still one of the most listened to shows. But what I meant is I could give them like your show, Tony Coelho, Senator Harkin, Marca, you know, all these disability rights leaders, Peter Blank, all these people that have been on my show. We could— we don't need to give them all of the shows, but we would give them all of the shows with disability leaders, um, so that you could hear Marco. Yeah, you could still hear her. And that you could hear all these other, uh, Dick Thornburgh. You could hear Governor Thornburgh. You could still hear him talk about the ADA, you know, when he was the enforcer. So Everyone think about that. I'm still talking to people, but we've got to archive these somewhere. So as I said, if you say, hey, I want to hear that disability rights leader, Emily, you can go hear it. So you think about that too, Emily, where we could archive these, uh, shows. Again, just giving them away, shows with disability rights leaders. You think about it.

Absolutely, absolutely.

So, you know what you talked about, well, before I talk about this next thing, what you made me think about, I want to mention. You know, Emily, I'm moving my employees work from home, even my employees with disabilities that I have recruited and placed at a corporation or wherever they are. And my internal corporate staff, I have them all working from home and they will continue working from home unless we need to collaborate and have a meeting here or a meeting there. So I have large space right now. So I, you know, I'm going to downsize the space. So I start going to different office buildings and property to get space. And guess what? No power-assisted door anywhere I went. Now I'm talking chemical companies, some healthcare companies. And then when you did get in, because this door was so heavy, it was so hard to open, there was still no power-assisted, uh, button for the restroom. And I— so that's why I didn't go to any of those places because I said, you have to be kidding me. It is amazing if Congressman Langevin or Senator Duckworth could not get into this building. You know, my employees, many of which are in wheelchairs, would not be able to get into this building. And when I read your book, I thought, that is the example that Emily is talking about of ableism where it's more just systemic, you know, not direct doing what someone did to your mother, but the example you gave is I think the New York subway where only like 25% have elevators in New York. Don't you agree that's another example of what you're talking about? How can you employ people if they can't get in the door?

Absolutely. We have to look at the systems that are shutting people out of participating in other systems. So I think that the New York City subway system is a really powerful example of that because we have such limited accessibility to navigate. But when you can't get from point A to point B, how can you get to a doctor's appointment? How can you get to a class? How can you get to a job? How can you be social? And so, when we talk about it from that perspective, we begin to realize that Every issue is a disability issue, and every system needs to be accessible to disabled people. If one system is not accessible, it shuts us out from so many other systems. And so, absolutely, we need to be thinking about if we're really going to meaningfully create more diverse workspaces, for example, what are the issues that are shutting people people out of those workspaces in general. And yes, a lot of it is attitudinal and a lot of it is stigma, but there's also so many structural barriers in place. So, if we're not dismantling these structural barriers and breaking down the negative stigmatizing attitudes that we have, then we're not going to make the progress that we want to see.

Right. All I could think of was, It's raining hard and you're in a wheelchair with an umbrella and you— there's no power-assisted door and you're waiting, waiting, waiting for someone to come and let you in. Or it's freezing the way it is in Pittsburgh right now where I'm headquartered. And what do I normally do if I go to a building? I say, hurry up, I'm going to run inside and get warm. Here we go. No power-assisted door. I mean, for employees, it's so— you really made me think about that, Emily. That's the first thing I thought of when I saw that. And the other thing you talked about that is my hot button that I must tell you, Emily, has got me into very spirited conversations with some business leaders that go to all these disability functions. And that is when they start this. And our group, our ERG, we don't call them disability. We call them the abilities group, or we call them diverse ability, or we use disability but with the small d-i-s. Or differently abled or handicappable. I mean, I've heard them all, as you have. And I'll say, may I ask you a question? What made you decide to do that? Well, I know people with disabilities don't want to be called that. I said, really? How many people told you that? Well, one, one person told me. I said, one, one out of millions of Americans. Americans living with disabilities. So, differently abled, like, what is that? So, I wanted you to talk about that, Emily, because the only other person I've heard talk about that a lot is Judy Heumann. It just sends her. So, let's talk about it, how people are trying to relabel people with disabilities. Some of these words And why do you think it is?

I think that so many people are incredibly well-meaning, and they have come to understand disability as a negative because that's how we're socialized to think about it. And so, they assume that they're doing the right thing by avoiding the word disability. But the reality is that when you're avoiding saying the word disability, in so many cases, you're really just erasing a fact of who people are, and you are actually leaning into the idea that disability is a bad thing. And so I have always encouraged people to reconsider their use of the terms like differently abled, handicappable, special needs, because what does any of that really What does that really mean? Don't we all have different abilities as human beings, and don't we all have needs? Why are mine special just because I am a wheelchair user? And so, I really encourage people not to shy away from saying the word disability, to try to de-emphasize the dis- and focus on the ability. I know that all of these things are meant to be empowering, but they're really not, because what they're saying is that, "I don't see you as a whole human being if I also acknowledge that you are disabled." And so, I very much embrace the term disability, and of course, I encourage people to respect the personal preferences of disabled people whenever possible. And so, if somebody says, "I don't use the term disabled for myself," then I will say, "Okay, and that's your preference, and I will respect that and use the terms that you prefer." But when talking about disability more broadly, just say disability. There's nothing wrong with the word. There's no harm in it. Don't make the decision for other people of what they should be called or say that disability is a bad thing or, "I don't see you as disabled," because if you don't see my disability disability, then you don't see all of me.

Right. And if you're saying, why don't you want to use the word? Oh, that's negative. That's bad. Well, what's that say about the person with a disability then? You're saying that's negative. That's a bad thing. So that's just perpetuating that stigma across the board. And so please don't do it. It's not called the Americans with Differently Abled Act. It's the Americans with Disabilities Act. And with that, hey, it's time for our on-the-half-hour news break, Advocacy Matters, with our anchor person, Perry Jude Radesik. CEO of Pennsylvania Disability Rights. Perry, welcome to the show.

Hey, thank you, Joyce Bender. And I want to talk today about an incredible virtual African American conference on disabilities. Registration is now open for a free virtual African American conference on disabilities. This free conference This conference is hosted by the Arizona Center for Disability Law and the Arizona Center for African American Resources. So, this conference is free and open to all individuals, families, and organizations who are interested in learning and eliminating barriers on race and disability. Now, Joyce, even though these are Arizona-based organizations who are sponsoring sponsoring this conference. Last year's virtual conference drew over 11,000 attendees from almost every state in the United States, the Virgin Islands, Canada, Africa, and Europe. So this is the 11th year of the annual conference, and everyone is invited. This is the only comprehensive conference in the United States that addresses the intersection between race and disabilities. Now, the conference doesn't last like one day or half of an afternoon. It's over a series of days between February 1st and February 17th. And throughout those days, they've put together 12 total sessions that will be available via Zoom and Facebook Live. And the sessions vary between addressing race, gender, and disability issues within the deaf community, school discipline, assistive technology, legal rights and best practices for individuals experiencing a mental health crisis. So many workshops. It's really important that you go and check out this conference, and it's free. So advocacy matters. We don't want anyone to miss this opportunity. Opportunity to participate in the African American Conference on Disabilities in February. You have two ways you can get the information. You can go to our website at disabilityrightsPA.org and click on today's Advocacy Matters segment for a link to the workshops and registration information, or you can go directly to azdisabilitylaw.org that's azdisabilitylaw.org, and look for the link to the African American conference. And Joyce, I hope your listeners take advantage of this great opportunity.

Oh, thank you for bringing that up. So they can go to— by the way, I'm so honored to be on the board of the organization, but you can— Disability Rights PA— you can go to the website and get that, correct?

That information? Absolutely, it's there right now.

And it is the website, this—

the disabilityrightspa.org, and you can click on today's segment and get the registration information.

Um, you know what, there's a very famous person in this book that you know very as well, Perry, that's mentioned I think 2 times in the book, and that would be Imani Barbarin.

Oh my gosh.

Oh yes, yes she is. She's on page 76, and as the Black disability rights advocate that she is, and she is also On page, let me see, 9. Page 9 and 76. Can you tell I have that book with me? Yes, Emily. Page 9. Here she is. Imani Barbarin, writer and activist, said disability is a holistic experience, so it must have a holistic definition. Disability is not just a physical diagnosis, but a lived experience in which parameters and barriers are placed upon our lives because of that diagnosis. And where does she work? Pennsylvania Disability Rights PA. So, I just couldn't wait to tell you that, Perry. You got to get this book, Demystifying Disability. I will. And then you have to tell Imani she has to autograph one for me.

Okay, well, we can do that. I know she's worked with Emily, and, uh, and there's a great respect, I think, between the two of them.

That's good. Well, I can see why. I can see why. Well, Perry, thank you so much. Make sure you go to the website, uh, pennsylvaniadisabilityrights.org. Go to Advocacy Matters and get that information today. Thanks, Perry. Talk to you next week.

Thanks, Joyce Bender.

Sure, bye-bye. How about that, Emily? Isn't that amazing? She's on every week on the half hour as the person keeping everyone up to date on disability news.

I'm so glad that she was talking about that conference. I think it's a valuable and needed event, and I'm just excited that she's able to share more about it.

Right, I agree too. So I have a question. Oh, and this gets brought up to me all the time when I go to companies and I do some ability, you know, disability training on words to use and not work. But what they ask all the time is, what is the correct way? Should we say first-person language like person with autism, or should we say autistic person? And I see that there seems to be like controversy, and I know it's different in the autism community that they are adamant about that. That is people in the disability rights community. So what do we say? Like, what should we tell business professionals to do?

Well, the answer here is that there is no 100% right answer, and that's because language is a deeply personal preference. And so when we are thinking and talking about disability and language and identity, we have to remember I respect that everybody comes at it from a different point of view. The general rule that I share is that disability in and of itself is not a bad word. So, first of all, don't be afraid to use the word disability. But when it comes to whether or not you should call someone a person with a disability or a disabled person, neither one is right or wrong. It's really a matter of Respecting both modes of how people refer to themselves. So if somebody says, "I prefer person-first language. I prefer to be called a person with a disability," use that. And if somebody says, "I prefer identity-first language, and I prefer to be called a disabled person," use that. But if you are talking about disability more broadly, shift back and forth between both of them. Try to just Refer to the overarching preferences that you've learned from community. For example, the deaf community and the autistic community, many of them do embrace identity-first language. So it's okay to use identity-first language. There is no 100% right way to use the language, but the best thing to do is alternate back and forth when you can, respect personal preference when you can, and don't be afraid to say the word disability.

Well, what— I know, I mean, you've— I know there's no 100% right way, as you said in your book. But like, say you're talking to a company that doesn't know what to say at all, and they would never understand that, you know, identity first, people first. Do you think it's okay to just say to them, people first, for example, I would not want them to say Joyce is an epileptic person because that is a bad word in our community. It would obviously be easier to say person living with epilepsy. But what do you think? I mean, what should we do?

I am always That said, if you are looking for a safe default, it's perfectly okay to default to person-first language, to say person with a disability, to say person who has epilepsy, person who uses a wheelchair. You can't go wrong with that. And if somebody tells you that their personal preference is otherwise, then you can shift when referring to that person. But person-first language as a default is certainly okay.

Okay. Okay, but I know you're right that, you know, Ari Ne'eman and different people, who's a disability rights leader, would not want to be called person with autism. You know, it's autistic person. So I know people from the deaf community, same thing. Not all, not all. So keep in mind that we both said not all because we don't want you to offend anyone. And if you do, just say, oh, I'm I'm sorry, what do you prefer?

That's probably a good rule.

Absolutely. So, I also, oh, I loved, I loved where you talked about worst phrases because I have heard these so often when people are speaking, even some people with disabilities that like, you know, they're in the disability/business world, but they're not like a disability advocate, and I've even heard some political people that are disability advocates say wheelchair-bound. What do you think about that?

Gosh, I am not a fan of the term wheelchair-bound. You know, I ask people to consider what they're actually saying. When they use that term, they are saying that I am stuck in my wheelchair, when in fact my wheelchair is my freedom. And so, to say wheelchair-bound implies that my wheelchair is holding me back, when really my wheelchair is what is moving me forward in so many ways. And so, my hope is that we move away from terminology like wheelchair-bound or confined to a wheelchair because that's not true. That's not what I perceive myself as. I perceive myself as a wheelchair user. My wheelchair is a tool that I use to get around the world.

Yeah, well, my favorite line is when you said about people calling you wheelchair lady. Now, I have to tell you, I've never heard that one. That's a new one, wheelchair lady. That one I've never heard, but when people say that, I would say, you don't think this person could get out of the wheelchair? Like, do you think they sleep with a wheelchair? Of course they're not confined to the wheelchair, but I can't believe how often I hear that. Do you also hear that often, Emily?

Yes, I hear that a lot. I hear it so often. I hear people who assume that disability means that you're stuck in your body, that you're trapped in your body. But for me, it's just part of how I get around. It's not something that I would ever phrase as a negative.

Mm-hmm. Right. I agree with you. I tell people not to say that because, well, it's wrong. And I have people say that to my own employees, and I'll say, "No, don't say that. They're not bound to that wheelchair." And as you said, Emily, sometimes these are well-meaning people and they just don't know. And when they just don't know, I say, "Hey, they're really not bound. Would you mind saying wheelchair user?" You know what I mean? But it's really annoying. It is. It's really annoying. So, Emily, obviously I could tell from the book that there are disability leaders who had a big impact on you, uh, you know, in your advocacy and just your life in general. Who are some of those people?

Gosh, I feel like there are endless people that I could name. Of course, I would be remiss if I did not name Judy Heumann, who has been such a mentor and a guide to me. I'm also so incredibly grateful for people like Alice Wong, who continually speak truth to the realities of what it's like to be a marginalized disabled person, I am so incredibly grateful to be connected with so many wonderful people online who are continuing to teach me, who I'm continuing to learn from each and every day, especially people in my peer group. I think we can't underestimate the power of learning from our peers. So, for me, people I admire like Sandy Ho, like Anjali Forber-Pratt, who are really leading conversations, paving the way, Mia Ives-Rooseley. I just have so much respect for the work that they're doing, and I could really spend all day naming people, but suffice it to say that the disability community is broad and wide, and there are so many incredible teachers who are within this community who I'm very grateful for.

And a lot of those people really believe, which I do, in our youth and our, you know, young people to have more disability rights leaders. The Bender Leadership Academy, which is the— Bender Consulting is the for-profit, but Bender Leadership Academy is the not-for-profit that works with high school students with disabilities, prepares them for the world of work, and how awesome they are, believing in themselves, learning how to deal with bullying, being proud of who they are. And you know what? I just love that. I love young people moving up to be disability rights leaders because we need more people, and even the people that you grew up with are people, Emily, that are more proud and not ashamed of their disability and people that are able to do so much more. Don't you think? Do you see that also?

Absolutely. Absolutely. I feel very strongly that the best way that we make progress is by fostering connections with younger people who are coming up in the movement, by supporting their work, by making sure that we are amplifying their voices, and by making sure that we are making space for the next generation of leaders.

And you know what? Please, everyone, go to benderleadership.org As you all know, I lost someone so important to me in a hiking accident, Mary Brocker. And Mary battled with clinical depression for 40 years. So we now have the Mary Brocker Mental Health Initiative helping young people with, with mental health disabilities. So please joycebenderleadership.org. And I too have been impacted by so many people in the community. Judy Heumann, Toni Coelho, my role model, you know, my mentor, Ted Kennedy. I mean, I could go on and on. So, I'm like you. I could go on and on. I don't want to forget anyone. Yoshiko. I mean, there are so many people. And I think— weren't you involved, Emily, with AAPD?

Yes, I was. Back in 2013, I was part of the American Association of People with Disabilities internship cohort, and that was really where I began to immerse myself in the disability rights movement and history and culture and to meet so many of the people that I count as friends and mentors today. And so I'm very lucky to have been part of something that was a connector and that did believe in the power of, you know, building up young people in the disability movement and ensuring that they were making space for the next generation to take up the mantle.

Right. And the Hearne Award winners I mean, what about that?

Yes, I was a Paul G. Herren Leadership Award winner a few years back now, and that was such an incredible honor because it enabled me to create a writing fellowship opportunity for two disabled writers and to really be a mentor to them in the same way that so many people have been a mentor to me. And I feel incredibly lucky that every day I get to, you know, use the platform that I have built due in large part to the people who have supported me to in turn support other people.

And so, all of you know, being a Paul Hearne Award winner is a big deal. And Emily, I was there when you received the award. I was there. That's right. Yeah, and I'm so proud of you that, uh, and look what's happened since then. Wow, you're moving at the speed of light, Emily. So Emily, Emily, what message do you have for our, our listeners today? What What do you want to pass on to them?

I would love everyone to know and to understand that we never stop learning and we never stop growing. It is so, so important to recognize that none of us are the experts on disability beyond our own experience and that we We need to look outside ourselves to engage with the disability community around us, to be open to new ways of thinking and understanding about disability, and to be strong allies to one another in this work.

Well, what a great message. And to all of our listeners, I just want to remind you, including internationally, share this show. Share this show. Just go to voiceamerica.com. Get the podcast and share this show, uh, with everyone. And if you were listening to the show, make sure people close to you or friends that you tell them about this show, because I'll be advertising this over and over, and I guarantee you it's going to be one of our most listened to shows. Once more, Demystifying Disability: What to Know, What to Say, and How to Be an Ally by Emily Liddell. Libraries, Amazon, ShareBook, audio, all of the above. And emilyliddell.com. If you have more questions, that's the website, emilyliddell.com. And Next week, get ready, we're going to have Gerard Buckley, the president of the National Technical Institute for the Deaf, on our show. And remember, my show is open captioned. Well, we end every show with a quote, and today that quote is, get ready, disabled lives are worth living, said Emily Liddell. This is Joyce Bender, America's Voice, where disability matters, at voiceamerica.com. Whatever you do, choose joy. Talk to you next week.

Voice America would like to thank Thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific time and 2 PM Eastern time for another installment of Disability Matters right here on the Voice America Variety Channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.