Dr. Larkins-Pettigrew: AHN Committed to Disability Inclusion

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

And welcome to the show, everyone in the United States and around the world. Thank you, thank you. I have to mention about Overseas China, you have a really good listening audience, and I really appreciate that because I know it's hard, but you— I don't care if it was one person— are helping spread the news about quality of life for people living with disabilities, because it doesn't matter where you are in the world, It's the same. A disability is a disability. And all the other countries, Australia, UK, Japan, thank you all so much for listening. And I mean it. It really means a lot to me. And with that, a special shout out to some of my friends from the State Department that got me there in the first place. And that would be first Richard Roberts. He is an awesome individual and a great friend I first met in South Korea. Than in Okinawa, and he just is truly a disability rights leader, as is Gangyong Cho in South Korea, Veniamin in Kazakhstan, and now, oh, Cheryl Harris is so wonderful. She was in Tunisia, now she moved here, and we're still working together. So I appreciate everything all of you are, are doing. A special shout out to Yoshiko Dart, my friend Yoshiko. Hope you're off to a great year. You know I love you. And this brings me to thanking our lead sponsor. And guess what? It's Highmark. I always say Highmark sets the high mark for other companies to follow. What a great company. And that is why I'm so excited with our guest today, because Dr. Margaret Larkin's Pettigrew is the Chief Clinical Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Officer at Highmark Health and Allegheny Health Network. She is a dynamo, and it was really a blessing to Highmark and AHN to be able to get her to join the organization. Dr. Pettigrew, thank you so much for your commitment to people with disabilities and welcome to the show.

Thank you. Thank you, Joyce. It is such a pleasure to be with you again today and to just have a chat with you about, you know, some of the good things that's happening here at Highmark AHN. We so appreciate you and all that you do for our organization. And I just want to thank you again for giving me this opportunity to chat with you today.

I'll tell you, I love Highmark. I love Highmark AHN and I love you. And I always tell people, If you work for Highmark or Agen, even if I don't know you, I know I like you because of where you work. So, you know, to me, you are a great national example. First of all, you're a medical doctor with this prestigious background, and that alone is such a tremendous accomplishment. Professor of obstetrics and gynecology And now here you are in this position in diversity and inclusion from Case Western. I mean, we are really, really thrilled to have you. So let's hear a little bit about you, about your story. Like, you know, where did you grow up? Where did you go to school? And what was that path that you took that, that allowed you to become a medical doctor, which is such a great achievement.

Oh my goodness. Well, so first I have to say that all of the things that you asked me about, this path to where I got to diversity inclusion, is in a book that I wrote. It's called The Colors of My Heart: Embracing My Blackness with History, Faith, Fear. And it is such an explanation of how a little Black girl born out in Uniontown, Pennsylvania, actually Leamont, so I'm local, who really really, you know, rose up to be what my parents wanted me to be. And it was really all of the people around me who were supportive and who, you know, kept me on track to say that, you know, you can be what you want to be, anything you want to be. And so it is a story of an African American woman. And so it comes with all of the macro and microaggressions that come with being raised in this country, you know. But I ended up in this space where I am in diverse diversity, equity, inclusion. And I've been working in this space for many years, but did not choose this path. I think it was chosen for me because it was a path with purpose and passion. And it's both challenging and rewarding, and it is a place where there— where need never ever ends. And so I'm very, very comfortable in this space and really am dedicated to be all I can be to make sure that people understand diversity, equity, inclusion.

Well, and at the end of this question, I want to talk about your book again, but what— and I know it will be in this book, but for our listeners, what was it like growing up in Uniontown with this aspiration to be a doctor? Like, you know, what gave you the strength? Because you didn't live in like the most progressive area. I know this because I— and I— if you live in Uniontown, anyone out there, I don't have anything against you, but, you know, no matter what the state is, we have areas that are very progressive and then more conservative. I grew up in one of those areas, more conservative, in New Galley, PA, and now here I am in the best city in America, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. But how was that for you growing up?

So of course, you know, Uniontown was very small and isolated. I lived in a little town right outside of Uniontown called Lehmont, but we got all of our services from Uniontown, Pennsylvania. I was there, I was only there until I was 8 years old, but remember all of the things that, you know, young children remember, you know, playing with chickens, you know, killing our own chickens, you know, eating rabbit, but also remember being very isolated as a community. So although I had friends who I went to school with who were, who were did not look like me, I was never invited to their homes and they never came into my home. And it wasn't until I moved from Uniontown to McKeesport that I really started to feel the pressure of understanding that I was unique. I was an individual who was an African American born here in the United States of America and now to be subjected to all of the things that most, you know, young black people are subjected to in this country, and those are, you know, because we live in a country where there's no structural racism, which we're really trying to work on here at AHN, where we know that, you know, everybody should be treated equally, everyone should have the same opportunities. But in raising— being raised in both Uniontown and McKeesport, I did experience many of those multi— those micro and macro aggressions that could have said to me, this is where you're going to be, this is where you're going to stay. I never even revisited. I never visited Pittsburgh proper until I was an adult, until I was 18 years of age. But it was all of those folks who saw the potential in me through high school, through elementary school and high school, that said, you know, you've got the potential to do whatever you want to do, and you can navigate this world, this country that has not really been so kind to you. And it was that that kept me moving. And the fact that, you know, I was taught to move beyond myself in order to help other people, and I think that whole philosophy of finding yourself but being very confident with who you are so that you can step out of yourself and help other people. So I think that that experience of being very poor in Leamont Furnace and then, you know, my entire life until I was able to navigate a career as a graduate from high school, and then it was from then on that I said, you know, to make a difference, I had to become a physician. I was a nurse first. And then I said I needed to go further because physicians have the ability to advocate much more for people who are of need.

But the nurses also— wow, I mean, those nurses— nurses are powerful. Nurses have more knowledge than people realize. So I'll tell you, I'm hearing this story, I'm thinking, wow, anyone listening to the show, especially young people, If you're thinking that you have mountains to climb, barriers, look at Dr. Pettigrew. From poverty to this prestigious role and author. Think about that. And if you are listening to this show and you're a business, I will tell you, this is someone I would absolutely have speak or speak at a conference because that is so powerful. That story. Let's talk about that book again because I'm sure you cover a lot of this in the book. What is the name of it again?

It is The Colors of My Heart. And so it's significant, uh, The Colors of My Heart, and it's embracing my Blackness with history, family, fear, and faith. And, uh, it's a little bit about it. It is my, my, my history is my memoir, and it really does really expose the issues of the fact that, you know, I have to really think about the colors of my heart. It's all colors, all ethnicities, all races have been part of who I am. You know, from the time that I was, you know, I'm a great-granddaughter of Sidney E. Lee, who is the eldest brother of Robert E. Lee. Think about that as a legacy here in this country as an African American, you know, and having to understand, you know, where I really actually came from, from a, you know, the bed warmer of Sidney Lee to, you know, all of the other parts of my legacy and understanding what that meant for me, because people have to understand where they've come from in order for you to understand where you're going. We as a country have to understand where we've come from so we can understand where we're going, which really aligns with the whole position of diversity and inclusion. So in my book, I really talk about the life of a woman born in the '50s who experienced many, many things, but became very empowered by the need to advocate. I was there when we had the drug wars. I was there when we talked about the new Jim Crow, where we had many incarcerations. I mean, I lived through the issues around Roe v. Wade and many of the things that women had to deal with. Just, you know, and having my family from those roots have many, many encounters with good, bad, and ugly folks who don't look like me, But to understand that in order for us to work, for me to work in diversity inclusion and for us as a country, as a people to move forward, we have to recognize that we're all in this together. That the colors of my heart belongs to everyone. Those colors have made me who I am and those colors have helped me get through and navigate, navigate this whole issue of fear, fear of my sons leaving my house and not coming back home. And faith, faith of really knowing that there are good people out there. Out there who want to really make a difference and to change the trajectory of where we've been so that we can move forward to have a much more humanistic way of living and treating other folks. So I hope that gives you an idea of a little flavor of what the book is about.

Yes, and I'm assuming that you can get that book through Amazon.

Yes, yes, yes, you can get it through Amazon, and I'm hoping that people really enjoy it. People tell me they enjoy it. It's the— you know, I've spoken about it, you know, many times. So I think it's something that will empower, you know, young and old, the Black and white, any, any age. It's— I think it's a book of empowerment and, and encouragement.

If you want to buy that book, which I hope you do, it's Dr. Margaret Larkins, L-A-R-K-I-N-S, dash Pettigrew, capital P-E-T-T-I-G-R-E-W. And you can get it at Amazon. And that sounds like such— not only a great book for you to buy, but to give to other young people. I really think that book is powerful.

Well, thank you.

Thank you. You're welcome. What a move for you. You go from being a doctor to a position in diversity and inclusion. How was that for you? How was that? To make that move?

It was a brave and courageous move, you know, in this space of diversity and equity inclusion. Just defining what those elements are to people who have not had to think about it is very, very important. But what you find is the people who are living day to day in many of those spaces that really require you to embrace them and to uplift them even we're talking about from, you know, all socioeconomic statuses to, you know, all across the spectrum, knowing that diversity, equity, and inclusion is a responsibility of all of us. We all have to engage in wanting to present a belonging and be in a belonging environment. So this is a job for all of us, and this is something that was very easy for me to pivot to as I think about humanity and I think about people who want to be the best they can be. And they can't do that unless they embrace the concepts of diversity, equity, inclusion, whether it's a business, a hospital system. It has to— they have to understand that not only is it a business case, diversity makes good business sense and can be part of your growth strategy, but it is a well— the right thing to do. For the folks that we want to take care of.

Well, yeah, when you— when I think about it, you have that wonderful background as a doctor, a person that is here to care and to help people and give hope, and, and now you're doing the same thing in this role. You know, you're carrying those same traits into this role, and you are the first year. This has been one year approximately. What were some of your— what was it like your first year and what were some of your first initiatives?

Oh my goodness. So Joyce, my first year has been phenomenal. I can tell you that, you know, first being asked to come here just tells you something about the institution itself. And I always use the word intentional because it was intentional for them to ask me to be part of the organization organization, it's intentional for them to want to make sure that Highmark Allegheny Health Network is a place where they are giving comprehensive care to the people they serve. And so this year has been, from a leadership standpoint, phenomenal. They have given me the opportunity to really develop a strategic plan that I've been able to roll out throughout this institution. The first thing they allowed me to do was to to build a wonderful team. And I'm sure you know a few people on my team who are experts in this space and who really will help me make sure that I align my strategy with the growth strategy of the organization, which is really important. But some of the major initiatives that we took on as soon as I came in was like, let's define who we are. Let's look at who we are. Let's really look internally to make sure that we are not raising our ugly heads around the isms, whether it's racism or, you know, treating people with disabilities badly, whether we're taking care of the LGBT population, we wanted to do that right away. So the first major initiative was to do a baseline survey, and we've— we are almost complete with the survey. It is a— the entire 40,000 employees engaged and had an opportunity to respond to an engagement survey about diversity, equity, inclusion. How are we treating everybody? And we're now into the focus group phase of that, and that's going to give us gave us a lot of information as we move forward. But we also didn't wait for that. We developed a model, I developed a model, and it's called the Pillars of Transformational Equity, and it's for internal development throughout our system. So senior leaders, all involved, everybody has a pillar they're working on, like education and advocating for new leaders, and we're looking really to make sure that diversity, equity, inclusion is a part of the fabric of Highmark. And so that's going on. It's ongoing. We have a number of diversity equity champions. Every single unit in every single hospital department has given me the opportunity to work with one person in their department to help them with the education piece, roll out new policy changes. It's been a phenomenal year, but I'm going to tell you about one big more thing because we got so much going on around education and development of programs, but the most important thing that we've taken on is a program called First Steps and Beyond, we've created. And First Steps and Beyond really is about how do we decrease the mortality of African American babies in Pittsburgh, because that is where— one of the highest in the country. And we know by decreasing the deaths of African American babies, we decrease the deaths of all babies. And so this initiative is a citywide, countywide, will be a systemwide approach to bring all of the organizations together to really think about how we make a difference in the lives the lives of mothers and babies who may have had some stress during this process and to really change the outcome of many of the mothers in this community. So, that's a big one that I wanted to share with you amongst the other ones that we're doing.

Well, that is a big one. And that's wonderful you're doing that. That is a great, great program. And we are lucky to have you. So lucky to have you. At AHN, Dr. Pettigrew, you are making a significant— you did all this in just one year, which is amazing, and you worked with the underserved communities and you've already built trust with those groups with the AHN health system. How have you dealt with the impact of COVID with marginalized groups?

So, we have had many of the same challenges that most hospital systems had with the with COVID affecting many of our employees, as well as our, you know, taking care of our patients, our frontline workers. So we had to really build a team that targeted all of the folks that were trying to take care of the patients who were impacted by COVID, not only take care of them, you know, physically and mentally, but, you know, how they were going home to their communities and who were in the communities taking care of them. We had to also take care of our own employees. We, you know, very short of staff and really people working, our frontline workers are everybody, everybody who came in who even from the environmental service workers to the transporters to the nurses and doctors who really are frontline and taking care of them. We have had all of those issues to deal with, with a really large team led by Cindy, of course, Hunterfeen. But what we really did was figure out that we could not let the community come to us. We had to go to the community. Because when I say community, I mean those places in our community where they didn't have access, where they couldn't have transportation, to our elderly who are in— in these high-rises to many of the churches that we wanted to work with. So we took our issues around the COVID crisis to the communities and really worked with them to make sure they had the vaccines and make sure that they had testing. And we're still out there. We've got this new program called Cut to the Chase, where we're going to barbershops and restaurants and really making sure that people who were not— who did not have an opportunity to get them or didn't understand how important it was to get the vaccine, that we were making making sure that it was available to them. So this has happened nationally, but here locally in our city, the city of Pittsburgh, we took this very, very seriously. We wanted to make sure that we, we narrowed the gap of inequities and to take care of everybody. So we're weathering the storm, but we're taking care of everyone.

And it is really a terrible storm. It's amazing over the past month when I talked to David Holmberg how all beds were filled, at all of your hospitals. So I pray to God that this COVID starts to peak and subside because it's really a terrible thing and has shown structural racism just by how it impacted the Black and disabled community.

So I'm—

Yes, yes. Hope we see a big change here. And I hope we learn from that. It's too bad we have to learn in that way, but I hope we learn from that. So at Highmark AHN, you have these patients with COVID How, how are they doing? How are you doing? What is the impact? Because you are a doctor, do you think this is having on our healthcare employees, which include, of course, nurses and doctors, you know, frontline people?

Yes, we have, you know, we're still, our numbers are going down, which is wonderful to see, but we are still seeing a number of young people now who are coming in with COVID It are young people who are ending up on ventilators and not doing well because, and these are almost 100% of those who've not been vaccinated. So that is a major issue as it relates to patient care and how we continue to have our beds filling up and taking care of patients who are really, really ill, our employees are a major, major concern for us because we want to make sure that they're protected. All of our employees have to be vaccinated because of the fact that they're interacting with patients who have COVID and their other coworkers. But in that, not only do you have to be vaccinated for their physical health, but we worry about their mental health as well. We want to make sure that they are taken care of, that they they have these mental breaks, that we give them resources and time to really be in a space where they're— to be the best that they can be. But they have sacrificed a lot. They've come into this system every single day working very hard to make sure that they're doing what they signed up to do. They took an oath. And I think that they have done a phenomenal job. We talk about heroes, and I always think about the fact that I've served time in the military, and people say to me all the time, "Thank you for your service." That that same comment, that same quote, and that has to be extended to these folks in these hospital systems, especially our, at AHN Highmark, who came in every single day, who walked away from their families. You know, thank you for your service is something that should be extended to them always. And so that is how we treat our own heroes who continue to work on the front lines.

Yeah, they are heroes. They are. That's, that's so true what you said. And so the way you have different ways you're protecting people, I know some people like at Highmark, there are many people that work at home. Of course, not everyone can work at home, such as the frontline peoples and doctors and nurses. But it seems you've been pretty firm from the beginning on having this vaccination policy in place to protect your employees?

Absolutely. We did that. I think we were the first in the region who said that, you know, we trust the science. We understand the science. And if we are going to get out of this and take care of our employees and make sure they're taking care of our patients, that they all have to be vaccinated. And that is everybody, 100% of our system. I think that many people were afraid to do that, weren't worrying about the cost of what would it be for loss of nurses and physicians. We took that risk, and we are weathering that storm because we know it's the best thing to do for everybody, not only our employees, but our communities and literally our world because we are so interconnected. So Highmark is not just local. Highmark is international when it talks about— when we talk about best practices and being a role model for other organizations.

Right, and that you are a great role model. You mentioned one thing, Dr. Pettigrew, there has been a big increase in mental health issues, especially for people working from home that already have a mental health issue. Do you, do you see that that will be with us over the next several years, this problem that has occurred?

Absolutely. And you know, even before the pandemic, we didn't pay enough attention to our mental health base and taking care of patients. And I think that, you know, this is one of the things they uncovered during the pandemic is that there are a lot of people who need to have places where they can relieve much of the stress of just life, everyday life. And this, the pandemic, really stretched a lot of people to a point where they really do need to have have mental health help. And we're going to make sure that that happens. We want to reach out. We want to make sure that people are taken care of and that we talk about mental wellness. And the issue around mental wellness is that we want to talk about illness when people are ill, but our goal is to achieve mental wellness because that's part of the whole wellness continuum. And I know this is going to be with us for a while. We are making sure that we are investing economically, we're investing socially, that we're really reaching out and making sure that not only our employees but our clients, you know, have an opportunity to get back on that mental wellness continuum. So, but this is going to be with us for a while.

Yes, it's amazing, isn't it, how many things were brought out to light, just as I said before, you know, about the impact on the African American community with COVID and the structural racism and what happened to people with disabilities. And now we see we need to pay more attention to people with mental health issues. So, and it is, it is heavy right now. It's a scary place right now. So I'm glad that you're doing that. And I hope all employers listening to the show realize you have to take time to make sure that you are addressing the needs of your employees with mental health issues. That's critically important right now. Well, on to a great subject I love, and that is Highmark. I always say they set the high mark for other companies to follow. You know, David Holmberg is receiving the prestigious CEO Champion Award award for the work that Highmark has done. Uh, and you, Highmark, are a best practice example nationally for employing people with disabilities. As a matter of fact, people talk about this, like from Ted Kennedy to Tony Coelho, about Highmark. Highmark has become so known for the work you're doing in this area, and we have been partners partners for 26 years because without Highmark believing in me, you know, there wouldn't be a Bender Consulting Services. And it's amazing now that I work nationally and we have a not-for-profit and I travel the world with the State Department speaking, all because of one decision one man made, Bill Lowry, when he was the CEO of Blue Cross right during the merger when you became Highmark. But why do you believe this partnership has been able to continue from the highest levels for over 26 years now?

I think it's really simple, and I want people to look at this very simplistically. First of all, Highmark hires the the best best and the brightest. And so, and we found, and we want a really diverse pool in order to bring in the best and the brightest to work at our institution. Our best and brightest are the experts that will take care of our patients that we serve, that will work with our membership. And of course, we found the best and brightest in a pool of people living with disabilities that maybe other people would not look at. And we found that, of course, this is a, rich pool of experts who are dedicated to healthcare and dedicated to doing this work. And so it's not difficult. It wasn't a difficult decision. And you said— you talk about the last CEO. This is not a difficult decision at all. This is just doing, making sure that we're taking care of not only patients, but we're taking care of our employees. And our employees are the center of our universe because they make sure that our patients are the center of the universe. So it's not— it's— It didn't take a brain surgeon to say, you know, we find so many experts in this space, people living with disabilities, that it doesn't even take a, you know, we wouldn't think about doing anything else. It's part of our regular pool of applicants that we need to look into for our expert to come to work for Highmark.

Yes, and so many companies are doing this. That's the sad part. 70% of people with disabilities still not counted in the workforce, double the unemployment rate. So what do you think makes Highmark so different?

The people who are at the leadership level and then the people who work to make sure that this is a belonging place where people want to come and work and stay. Now, if the leadership and governance of any organization really sets the pace and sets the sets the tone for who we are going to be. So if we didn't have a leadership that believed that they should be governing through a social justice, a diversity, equity, inclusion lens, then this wouldn't happen. But this is what they know is right and they decided to do when they said, let's look at our pool. Why wouldn't they have— why wouldn't they put people with disabilities in this pool as well?. It's the leadership that makes a difference.

It is. So what do you think is the reason, Dr. Pettigrew, that people with disabilities have the highest unemployment rate?

Because there's leaders who don't think that way. I think that there's, you know, there are leaders who do not give people with disabilities the same opportunities. It is that disparity gap where multiple people fail. So disparity gap with people with disabilities, your sexual orientation, gender, they're all in that space of, you know, they don't include those populations in their larger pool. And until we do that, we're going to still have people living with disabilities that are unemployed. And it's our responsibility as advocates to make sure that we change that. And I think we're doing that.

Yeah, I think that it's a multitude of reasons, but it comes down to stigma stigma and seeing people with disabilities as not equipped to work at the same level, or really just not wanting to be around them or seeing them as sick people. I don't know all of the reasons, but I know Highmark has been the opposite and continues to bring on people with disabilities and has stayed my partner. I mean, it's amazing when you think about it. CEO, from Bill Lowry to John Browse to Ken Mulaney to Bill Winkenwerder, and now David, have solidly stood with Bender Consulting, as have you and Cindy Hundorfean. I mean, this company is just absolutely remarkable in so many ways. And you know right now, Dr. Pettigrew, that there is intersectionality in the world of disability, because it doesn't matter what your color, sexual orientation, gender, or age is. I always tell people disability does not discriminate against any group. What is your view of intersectionality in the workplace?

That it's another layer of acceptance that we have to really tackle. So, I mean, you, when you have, when you're a person living with disability and you're female or you're a person with disability and you are young or too young or too old as people would see you. You know, this intersectionality of even being African American and having disability, I mean, it is something that we have to tackle head on because we know of the discrimination if you're just living with a disability, but when you add all of these other components, it's like peeling this onion for any organization to understand that these are attitudes and behaviors towards toward these populations of folks that make people behave the way they do, such as hiring practices don't include people who are in this space of intersexuality. So it is another layer that we have to really tackle head-on and understand where it comes from. And so people living with disability, it's, you know, they see it as a double whammy. You know, we see it as an opportunity. Opportunity to include diversity into our workforce. And so looking at it very differently and understanding that is, it, you know, it is all about having that diverse groups of folks in your institution to make a difference in outcome of the people and the products that you want to present. So it is a challenge, it is a major challenge, and I think the way we view we do it is that it is part of our social construct that we have to hit straight on and really eliminate those feelings of inadequacy and the stigma that's placed on folks if they have one of these things. But to have two or three, it's a whole other ballgame. And we're tackling that head-on.

Well, that's good you're doing that because, you know, So I tell people when I go speak somewhere and they say, "Oh, we haven't hired people with disabilities before," I always tell them, "Oh yes, you have. Yeah, they're working here right now. They have MS, epilepsy like me, juvenile diabetes, bipolar disorder." I could go on and on. It's just they aren't telling you because they don't want you to treat them differently. So people have to remember that regardless of, you know, the color, the sexual orientation, the gender, people may not be telling you, but that doesn't mean they don't have a disability. It's just something they don't want to talk about because they're afraid with ableism that, you know, they will be discriminated against. And I am so glad that, you know, you are working in this country, Dr. Pettigrew. Do you see an improvement in this area? I mean, you lived this. You grew up in all of this.

I see an improvement in a way that is not going to make significant change unless we change the minds and hearts of the folks to run this country. And so, and you know, we're struggling with a lot of political issues now. We're struggling with a lot of advocacy issues around just care. And I think that, you know, we took an oath as physicians when we first come into the profession. And that, at the end of that oath, or the overwhelming message is do no harm. And do no harm just doesn't mean do no harm because we don't give the wrong drug or we don't practice the wrong procedure. Do no harm really means that we understand the humanistic parts of our neighbors, our brothers, our patients we take care of, to understand that completely so that we do not discriminate. And that to me is do no harm. When you can take people and accept them as their authentic selves. That has not happened in this country. In totality. It has not happened in a way that we can see the significant difference. And we've, you know, we're on these waves of changes right now where, you know, I'm fearful that all of the work we have done to come to this space where we're beginning to come together as a people, as a real people, as humans who respect one another, who care for one another, and who want the best for one another, and though there very simple principles, I feel, are in jeopardy at this point. I have seen some progress over the years. As a child who was in the '50s and watched all of the turmoil that happened through that time, my fear is that we're going to go backwards, and that is something that we all need to think about and be responsible for. So yes, there has been changes. Yes, I can see some of them. Not enough. To bring us to a point where we are going to be the proud country we want to be.

That is a scary thought, isn't it? That is a very frightening thought. Yes, we have quite a ways to go yet because it should not be that— and as you said before, we are talking about, it should not be that an African American parent is nervous when their their child leaves the house, especially male. We've got a long way to go, but—

We do.

We're moving forward. It would be terrible at this time to go backwards. It really would. It would be—

Right, right.

Horrible.

And I think as a hospital system, just to add to that, as a hospital system, I think that we can't control what happens outside of our hospital system as it relates to policing and all the other things that go on, but we can control our own space. We can look at our own space and make sure that we are practicing the do no harm philosophy, that we— this is a safe space, a place where there's healing and not hate. And we can only do that if we intentionally— if you intentionally want to do that. And Highmark AHN is doing that.

Love that do no harm. I mean, taking that across the board, not just in the medical area. That is really a great way way to think about it. Well, Dr. Pettigrew, you are certainly a great example of— well, just a great human being and someone that has done so much with their life and so successful and is continuing, continuing on marching forward with Do No Harm now in your new role. But I'm curious to 2 things: who is your role model and who impacted you the most in the past?

So that's a very, very simple question to answer. My role models are my parents, and those are the ones who came before me. Of course, instead, that I had to— I'm responsible for making sure that I make things better They— an 8th grade educated mother, a coal miner father who had a household of children who they loved, who dispelled the whole myth of African American families with one-parent homes. So they were— we were poor, but we were rich in the love of making sure that we could make a difference in other people's lives. That's— those are my role models. The person also who is very close to me who's made the most impact in my life before and continues continues to do that is my husband, Chunis. Chunis Pettigrew, he's the Associate Dean in the School of Medicine and the Head of Diversity Programs, working with me for— we've been married for 43 years, and I tell you that he has been a solid rock of support and wisdom and a true partner in the same space that I work in around diversity, equity, and inclusion. So he is the one that I, I continue to lift up because he's impacted my life.

Wow, wonderful. Can't— I mean, 43 years, that's, that's wonderful. And wonderful that you have such a wonderful person in your life. I wanted to ask you, when you're talking about this, I'm thinking, you know, for young people listening to the show today Do you young people with disabilities, do you feel it's important even with friends to be cautious of who you spend time with, let alone, you know, have relationships in the future? Do you feel that that is important to your success and your well-being?

Oh, absolutely. So I, I do this lecture series and it's about wellness. One of the big things that I talk about is social wellness and who you socialize with, who comes into your life, who you let into your circle. You want people who are always encouraging you and all people who are lifting you up. And that you need to, you know, you'll have people come in your life that are not like that. You have people come in your life who don't mean you the best, you know. And the key is to recognize that and move on. And if there are pain points that are lessons. So even if, you know, young people who are in their teens and who are getting older, you know, surround yourself with really positive people, people who really respect you for who you are, accept you, accept your authenticity, and allow you to be the best you can be. You're growing, you're moving, you know, you're trying to find the best you, and you need folks around you who can help you do that. So absolutely, practice social wellness is well.

Oh, I like that, social wellness. Yes, what I always tell students at the Bender Leadership Academy is, "Show me your friends, I'll show you your future." Because you want to be around the "yes you can," not the "no you can't," and around people that value all people equally. Because, you know, bad ways of thinking rubs off on people. And before I forget, you know, you You work for a great woman, Cindy Hundorfean. I cannot tell you how highly I think of her, and she must be wonderful for you to work with.

Absolutely. So supportive, so encouraging, just a leader, you know, a leader that is a listener. You know, leaders who listen and who actively listen and help you with your strategy, let you go out and do those things and make mistakes and come back and, you know, help you guide. This is a true leader, and to have a woman lead the network is such a role model for all of us. We're just so proud of her and what she does.

And then you have great people that work for you, like Veronica Villalobos and Chaz Callum, and a whole staff of a million other people. And I bring those two up because they're people with disabilities. So once again, extremely talented people. You're making a mistake when you don't look at the whole talent pool. You're missing out when you don't look at the whole talent pool of people. You are missing out. Um, and I know that everyone loves working with you. I remember, Dr. Pettigrew, when you first interviewed, uh, Veronica, she called me and this is what she said, oh my God, this woman is so bright. She is so intelligent. I remember that as if it were yesterday and how much she was impressed by you. And you make quite the team there, I must say.

Oh my goodness. And she's wonderful. I tell you, if anybody thinks, you know, you see her, she's beautiful. She's, you know, if they don't see a disability, they don't you're disabled, but even she's such an expert in what she does, and people need to understand that if you have a disability, you have a disability, but that doesn't change who you are, and that doesn't make you any less than anyone else, and she's brilliant, and so happy to have her and Chaz and my whole team, which are— they're so dedicated. Dedicated to this space.

Mm-hmm. Well, you know, before I go on to ask you my final question, what for young people listening to the show today that also live in poverty, people with disabilities, many do, that either because of their color or sexual orientation, whatever it is, but with a disability feel there really isn't hope. What message do you have for them?

Oh my goodness. First, courage. You know, be courageous. Take the risk. You know, you can do what you set out to do. Be empowered. Be empowered by all those folks around you, but you must empower yourself and have resilience because, you know, at the end of the day, you're going to be the one who has to dig deep and say, I am, I am who I I am, and I am a good person. So be empowered to give yourself a chance to be the best you can be so that you can look forward to give to others. And open your eyes so you can open other people's eyes about the power of uplifting everyone, and that's everyone. People living with disabilities, all the populations we think, you know, have not had the opportunities others have had. So courage, empowerment, and be uplifted.

And do you have a final message for all of our listeners?

And that is hope, because I think that at the end of the day, when things begin to look grim, we always have to go back to this whole principle of hope. Hope, and the other one is grace. Giving grace to those folks that you think just, you know, have done you wrong. You know, have hope that you're going to be able to give grace and move forward in your— in whatever endeavor you wish to do. So there you go.

Gràd! What great advice. Wouldn't it be wonderful if everyone followed that? What great advice. Well, Dr. Pettigrew, it has been, as before, a true pleasure to have you on the show today.

Oh, ditto. Thank you so much for having me, Joyce Bender. I'm sure that you will continue to do the great work that you're doing, so we so appreciate you. Thank you so much.

Oh, it is a great partnership. And we end every show with a quote, and today is one of my favorite quotes, and it is: The time 'Is always right to do what is right,' said Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. This is Joyce Bender, America's Voice, where disability matters, at voiceamerica.com. Talk to you next week, and remember, choose joy.

Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific Time and 2 PM Eastern Time for another installment of Disability Matters, right here on the Voice America Variety Channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.