Elaine Katz Discusses Kessler Foundation's Commitment to the Disability Community

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Hey, welcome to the show everyone in the United States and around the world. Uh, so appreciate all of you listeners. China, amazing, thank you. But for everyone, I don't care if it's one person in a country, one person with a disability can make a big difference. So don't give up, keep fighting the fight every day. And before we go any further, here I go, it's my special shout out to Yoshiko Dart. You know, this year is the 30th anniversary of the signing of the Americans with Disabilities Act and two people that were so involved prior to it being signed and after, Yoshiko Dart and her husband, the late great Justin Dart. So Yoshiko, thank you for everything you did. We are thinking about you and love you and know that you are continuing in Justin's words to lead on. On. And to my two friends, speaking of international, Gang Young in Seoul, South Korea, Richard Roberts, um, in Okinawa. Okay, these are two wonderful friends of mine. They work for the State Department. I've been in the countries they're at to speak there because they're diplomats. And I want to tell you what, they are so committed to the employment and quality of life for people with disabilities. You will be hearing from us. You'll be hearing from us live from Japan and then from South Korea. So stay tuned. And finally, I want to thank you, Employment Options, Wells Fargo, Peoples, Peoples Natural Gas, who was a one-year sponsor of the show this year, and Highmark. Highmark has been a lead sponsor of this show for 4 years. And I so appreciate everything that you do to help me talk about the employment of people with disabilities, software training, digital accessibility, and everything we do at Bender Consulting Services and at the Bender Leadership Academy. So we have a friend on the show today and someone that I think very highly of. I've known for a long time. She has been a supporter of people with disabilities for as long as I've known her. And that is Elaine Katz, who's the Senior Vice President of Grants and Communications for that great Kessler Foundation. Elaine, welcome to the show.

Thank you, Joyce Bender. It's a pleasure to be here and hear about all the great things you're doing and your international audience.

Oh, thank you. And listen, when you're listening to the show, Elaine— I forgot to mention this— if you're wondering, "Wait a minute, she sounds like breaking up there. What's going on?" She is in the midst of that tropical storm on the East Coast, but you know the two of us together, we're a little powerhouse, so we are going to move forward. And with that, Elaine, how about if you tell our listeners around the world about your role at Kessler?

Sure, I'm happy to do that. So, Kessler Foundation changes the lives of people with disabilities through medical rehabilitation research, and we also We also fund employment initiatives for people with disabilities. Our research seeks to improve cognition and mobility for individuals with disabilities like stroke, spinal cord injury, traumatic brain injury, multiple sclerosis. We also do studies to improve the daily functioning and independence. And by testing these new innovations, we hope to gather data that improves their treatment. I run the Center for Grantmaking, and that's a initiative that has funded and invested close to $49 million over the past 13 years in 3 different grant programs in New Jersey and nationally. We support new business ventures, job training, job creation, but most importantly, we are the funder of innovative approaches to really make systematic change, which create those genuine economic opportunities for people with disabilities.

And just so I have one thing right, you have always— Kessler, have you always supported people with disabilities? Has that always been your focus?

Focus has always been— and we came out of— we were formed out of the rehab institution Kessler Institute that was founded by Henry Kessler many years ago where Reeve and many other celebrities were treated for rehabilitation.

Okay. All right. Well, that makes a lot of sense. And I've been there and, you know, I just think you are all awesome in what you do. So, you are, I guess, then the person that would review major grants. Is that correct?

Yes, we review major grants. And, you know, COVID has really affected the community of people with disabilities. Disabilities tremendously. And in New Jersey especially, we've looked at how Kessler Foundation, how our work can really help the community of people with disabilities in the COVID initiative. So one of the things we've done is, you know, the University Centers on Disabilities at the beginning of March quoted some numbers that there are probably 105 million Americans are about 4 in 10 adults that could be affected by the coronavirus, and those are older adults and people with disabilities. Also, we think about everybody who works with those individuals, who may support them. Really, there was a lot of risk to their health and well-being. So, we found in New Jersey, especially at the beginning, there wasn't a lot of attention paid to people with disabilities, even though there was a lot of attention paid to those, what they call vulnerable populations or underserved populations. So we quickly switched our grantmaking from about $1.2 million in 2014 to $1.4 million in 2020 into what we call—

Okay, well, we are going to go to a quick break because we lost Elaine here for a few minutes. Remember what I told you. She is in the middle of a storm on the East Coast. So we're going to go to a break and we'll be right back. If you just joined us, we're talking to Elaine Katz, Senior Vice President from the Kessler Foundation. This is Joyce Bender, America's Voice, where disability matters at voiceamerica.com. Don't go away. We'll be right back.

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Since 1985, Bender Consulting Services has served as a national leader in advancing employment of people with disabilities including veterans with disabilities, with private sector companies and federal government agencies. Bender assists customers with achieving their diversity and workforce inclusion initiatives by tapping into a talent pool of individuals seeking professional positions, including those in the STEM fields. In addition, Bender services include disability employment consulting, training in technology accessibility through their HighTest line of service. For more information, Please visit www.benderconsult.com.

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Hey, welcome back everyone, and welcome We are talking to Elaine Katz, Senior Vice President of Grants and Communications from the Kessler Foundation, during a hurricane. Therefore, that's why you hear off and on her breaking up, but you know what? We're gonna still move forward and I'm gonna try to make sure I encapsulate some of the points that she makes, one of which I just wanna repeat to everyone, the Kessler Foundation Kessler Foundation is a foundation that is working specifically with the disability community and also has a rehabilitation site working, for example, with spinal cord injuries, traumatic brain injury, strokes, those type of disabilities. And they have been intricately involved in the disability community since I've known Elaine. Elaine is like a national disability rights leader. If you go to anyone and you say Kessler Foundation, Foundation, they know who Elaine Katz is. And so she really doesn't just, you know, work 9 to 5 and that's it. She lives this. She has really invested a lot of time to the disability community and conferences and fairs and everything that goes on and takes everything they're doing so seriously. And Elaine, if I have this right, last year you gave out $2.8 million in grants, is that correct?

Uh, $2.1 million last year, and this year it's been $1 million in COVID grants.

Okay, so $2.1 million last year, but did you hear— I want to make sure you get this— $1 million in COVID grants. And as you probably know, And you've heard on many of my TV shows, we have talked about how COVID has impacted the disability community really in such terrible ways, like healthcare disparity, like, you know, well, I'm sure you've probably heard about Mr. Hickston and how Michael, African American in a wheelchair, was actually reduced, refused treatment and died. I mean, these are horrible things that are going on where there is healthcare disparity, but you know, just even having personal care attendants there and on time, and we could go on and on about how many ways this is impacting people with disabilities. So seeing those grants given out for COVID is, just so wonderful and so important because to be honest with you, during this pandemic, we need all the help we can get. So speaking about that, Elaine, you do a tremendous amount throughout time studying the employment of people with disabilities at the Kessler Foundation. What impact do you think COVID is going to have on the employment of people with disabilities?

Well, you know, it's really interesting that you talked about that because we're looking at the ADA generation, which we just celebrated, as you mentioned, the 30th anniversary of the Americans with Disabilities Act. And especially at this time, we wanted to see how people are doing, especially college graduates with disabilities. You know, what's going to happen to them? What were their past experiences? Under employment and under school, and what's looking at the future for them. So we looked at a— last fall we commissioned a study that looked at recent college graduates and their experiences.

And what did you find out?

And what we found out was— so we asked the University of New Hampshire to look at college graduates nationally, and we studied 4,738 graduates, half with disabilities and half without, that self-identified as having a disability. And what we found is that college is really paying off for this ADA generation that has grown up and come of age under the ADA.

Yeah, so that is great. What do you think will happen to employment? Like, do you think you'll— and let me tell you why I'm asking. The only thing that made me nervous is I heard Governor Ridge speak at the Bush Foundation event, you know, celebrating the 30th anniversary, and he said, and now today, 80% of people with disabilities are not counted in the workforce. And I'm sitting there and thinking, what? How do we go from 70 to 80, but he talked about how, you know, and Senator Harkin, about what will this do to people with disabilities, not just the college graduate, you know, recent college graduate, you know, maybe a person that is older, but how do you think it will impact them?

Well, you know, I think it's impacting not only people with disabilities because, as we all know, sometimes the most recently hired are the first ones to let go and furloughed. I think it's been very difficult for people to maintain their job. What individuals don't realize, and I know this in New Jersey through talking with some of our grantees, is that a lot of the people with disabilities were actually considered essential workers. They were working in supermarkets. They were working in other jobs, in restaurants. So some of them now don't have those jobs anymore.

More.

If they're working in food service, unless they were in a hospital situation, a few of them are where they may still be working. But a lot of those jobs that are minimum wage jobs, people have been let go to furlough. So there's a lot of concern that when we go to rehire, they may not be the ones that are looked at because there's going to be so much competition for employment and for jobs. But what we've really need to also to look at is the agencies that serve people with disabilities are letting go their staff, especially their employment staff, in, in great numbers, both in New Jersey and across the country. So when we try to get people with disabilities back into jobs and help support them in jobs, there may not be that professional staff there to do that.

Oh my goodness, you know what, that is a true but sad Good point to make because if they've lost their jobs, then what are they going to do to help people with disabilities get a job? Yeah, that's a good point. I didn't even think about that. Wow. Well, that's why we all have to work on this together. You know, if you're listening to the show right now and you are a person with a disability experiencing these problems gaining employment, You know how to reach me, joycebender@benderconsult.com, and even if I can't help you, I can talk to other firms or not-for-profits, hopefully, that can. So you at the Kessler Foundation, Elaine, what do you— here's a question I have, because people ask me this all the time. What do you look for when you are evaluating a grantee? Like, what are some of the important things to you?

You know, we've been called Extraordinary Foundation because we really look for out-of-the-box and work with individuals and organizations that others may turn down. So we don't necessarily look for a track history in a new project. We're really looking for that spark of innovation, that idea that really makes a difference. So for example, we call it sometimes a "so what" test. If you think about somebody applying for a grant and everybody says they have the best afterschool program that serves young adults with disabilities, so what? What makes you unique? What makes you different? That's what we're looking for, that spark of the idea that really drives the project forward and can really come out of a presentation. It doesn't necessarily have to be the best written, but you know when you read it that something is outstanding and just shines.

Well, that is great for people that, as you just said, maybe other people would not give them the same chance that, uh, you are giving them. But when people ask me that, I always tell them, you can't just go to a foundation and have some help me type of proposal. I mean, you really have to have your act together, um, and really be well thought out before you present something to an organization. Do you agree with that, Elaine?

No question. In fact, if you're familiar with the Association for People—APSE—so the Association for People Supporting Employment First, and you're an APSE member, this past June there was a national conference that was virtual, and I presented a grantmaking seminar, and that is actually archived and recorded, and you go back and hear it. It has all the tips of what we look at from a grantmaker's point of view. And I will say that I think one of the important things that people should know when they apply to foundations is that your idea really needs to be something that's very short, sweet, and to the point. You know, we can tell when you're making up things, when you're maybe don't know really what you're talking about. So you really have to make sure that you're direct, concise, and to the point. That's really, really important. And being sincere and not making up numbers. And making sure when you do put through numbers and concepts that you know what you're talking about.

Now, where can they go again to see that seminar?

That you are talking about? They can go to, it's I think apse.org, A-P-S-E dot org. And if not, you can write.

Is it also on your site? Is it on Kessler?

No, it's not on Kessler, but if, you know, if they send you a note, we can always, you can contact us and we can put them in to get in touch with the organization where the webinar is. There's many resources on the internet for grantmaking. There's Candid in New York, which used to be the Foundation Center. There's lots of resources, lots of books. But most importantly, you really do need to— what you mentioned before is very important— just have an idea in mind from start to finish that you've worked on. That meets the right criteria of a foundation and meets the right guidelines that they may post it on their foundation website, right?

Right. Yeah, um, that's what, you know, that's funny what you were saying. I agree with you about no fluff. You know, I always tell people the key thing are facts, having the right facts and having some type of of, you know, not well thought out. You know, Elaine, she's been doing this for a long time. She's going to know if this is the real deal or not. So, Elaine, you were talking about that ADA generation. I really love this ADA generation. How do you see it as different? What do you think about this ADA generation?

Well, you know, the ADA generation is really the The first group of students that either grown up or came of age during the civil rights legislation of the Americans with Disabilities Act. And it's a really unique group of people because they really don't know life any differently. They don't know life sometimes without the curb cuts, without all the benefits that they've had during their schooling and during their social activities of inclusion. Hopefully they have the benefits, although, you know, we know different parts of the country and different places try to catch up. But it's really important because when you look at how they've gone from school to the rest of their lives is what we were really interested in as a foundation. You know, did the educational system promote them going to college and going to school? And especially now in the COVID era, you know, when you're looking at young adults moving from high school to something else. If there's no jobs, what do you do? Whether you have a disability or not, the best thing now is to look at getting some sort of training, internship, apprenticeship to get some of that experience, whether it's paid or unpaid, so that you have an idea of what you'd like to do and what you'd like to go after.

Yeah, right. Yeah, it is a different world. It really is. It's a different world with these powerhouse new leaders, a new way of thinking. And one thing I would say that is the most different is the amount of people, of young disability leaders being so confident about their own disability and really embracing disability rights. You know, that is awesome. And they're fierce, let me tell you that. They are fierce because they now are excited to to be part of this disability rights or civil rights movement. So, you know, that, that to me is so spectacular. But right now, you know, on the half hour, we have our news break, Advocacy Matters, with our tremendously talented anchorwoman, Perijude Radesik, the CEO of Disability Rights PA, and welcome to the show, Perry.

Hey Joyce, thanks for having me always and for another segment of Advocacy Matters.

Yes, and by the way, Elaine from the Kessler Foundation, our guest today, is like living through the hurricane, tropical storm, so that's why it sounds, uh, as if she's breaking up, but she's such a trooper. We're just still so glad to have her here. But we aren't living through that here.

We are. No, it's not really hitting Pittsburgh so bad. Harrisburg has some bad weather too.

Oh, really? Yeah, well, we're, we're fine here. But, uh, so, Perry, what do you have to talk to us about today, Perry Jude?

Well, today advocates from across the country are calling, tweeting, emailing their U.S. senators as we continue— well, as they continue the negotiations with the House and the White House on the next coronavirus spending package that's happening right now. Key leaders are currently working on that fourth COVID-19 stimulus relief bill as we speak. Here's where we are. The U.S. House of Representatives passed H.R. 6800, the Heroes Act, in May. We've talked about this on your show. It addressed many priorities of the disability community. Most importantly was dedicated funding for home and community-based services. That total stimulus package was somewhere in the neighborhood of $3 trillion. Because it continued to help small businesses, it continued to help unemployed individuals across this country, and so on. It was the Heroes Act. The U.S. Senate introduced a bill last week. It was called the HEALS Act. It totaled $1 trillion in spending. The package did not include any funding for home and community-based services. Joyce Bender. So why is this important for the disability community? It's so important. The community wants individuals with disabilities supported in their own homes always, and especially during the pandemic. No one wants to see anybody institutionalized because there was not enough extra dedicated funding for home and community-based supports. We want to be sure these extra funds are included, including additional money and supports for community mental health services. You've talked about this, we've talked about this, how important additional supports for mental health services are through this pandemic. This brings us to today. Today is a National Call to Action Day focused just on the U.S. Senate. Even if you have contacted your senators in the past, we ask you to do it again today. Your senators have to hear from you today so that we can make this collective push for this important community priority. Advocacy matters, so go to disabilityrightspa.org right now. There you can find a link to the Center for Public Representation action page with more information about this action today and information on how to contact your senators. They even have templates on how to write your message. You can also follow the advocacy action today by using hashtags like hashtag HCBS and hashtag what we need. So again, go to disabilityrightspa.org, look for our advocacy matters segment for today. You'll find the link to the senator— for the Senate, for the senators, all the senators, and that link for the Senate Center for Public Representation. And let's make advocacy matter. Okay, here's my question, Perry Jude.

What happens if this doesn't go in? What happens if that is left out?

Well, if it's left out, then there is no extra home and community-based funding because it's in the House. It won't be in the Senate package, and so therefore the two packages will be different and there won't be an agreement.

And just so our listeners understand, in personal layman's terms, what could that mean to people with disabilities?

Well, it could open the door— well, it means our home and community-based service providers will not have enough money to continue to pay for personal protective equipment. It means there may not be enough funding for direct support care workers and extra services that come with those direct support care workers to get that sort of hero's pay that we've been talking about. It means that when people get sick, there may not be enough funds to replace people. And it all puts people at risk of institutionalization, and that's what we're trying to avoid.

Oh, that is terrible. When will we know? When will this, uh, happen?

When will this vote be taken? Well, everybody's trying to push this to get done now because besides people with disabilities, there are also, uh, that moratorium on evictions has been lifted, so people are at risk of losing their homes. Unemployment, that extra money for unemployment has expired. So there's so much at stake, and we need the senators to get to the table with the White House and with the, with the House of Representatives and get this done now. Get it done now. But in all cases, they go off to their conventions here in 2 weeks for the Democrats and 3 weeks for the Republicans, and no one will be meeting then. No one. It has to get done now.

Well, I'm really glad you brought this up because, you know, this is serious. This is very serious. So once again, if you're listening, disabilityrightspa.org. If you thought, oh my goodness, how do I do this? Where do I go? Go to that page and get the information. But folks, you got to do something. You've got to get in touch with your senator. You've got to send something to day. So thank you, Perry Jude. We will, uh, hopefully have good news about this in the future, but I know you will keep us up to date on what's happening.

Absolutely, Joyce Bender.

Thank you. All right, have a good day, Perry Jude. And that is the CEO of Disability Rights PA, who for the past few years has been our newsbreak week on the half hour. So Elaine, back to you again. Um, we, we started doing that, Elaine, because, you know, there is no source where people can get up-to-date news on what is happening in this country that impacts people with disabilities. So we have that little news break on the half hour, and it has been so helpful to so many people.

That's terrific. You know, also in— we, Kessler Foundation, University of New Hampshire, on the first Friday of the month run the National Trends in Disability Employment webinar, and we do have somebody from one of the organizations in D.C., American Centers on— AUCD, American University Centers on Disability, present some information on the Washington Highlights. So that could be another source, you know, once a month for some D.C. highlights as well.

Oh, that would be great. That would be just great. So now we've talked about this year being the 30th anniversary of the signing of the Americans with Disabilities Act. And, you know, I heard Tony Coelho, author of The ADA, speaking about— and Senator Harkin also, who signed the ADA— talking about how much has been accomplished so many wonderful things, such as imagine that there was a day no curb cuts. There was, you know, a day there was no captioning. I mean, you know, I know of people that to get up into buildings, they always had to have someone with them to carry them and then go back and get the wheelchair. You know, if a bus came past, it's just going to keep going if you're in a wheelchair. So, so many wonderful things have happened. One being that you cannot say to someone on an interview, "Hey, what is your disability?" because that's against the law now that we have the ADA. But even knowing all of that, what is your hope, Elaine, for the future for the ADA?

You know, I think our hope is that universal design, what you mentioned, the curb cuts But more importantly for us in our work, that diversity initiatives— when people talk about hiring at different companies and businesses, that when they talk about a diverse population, that it will include people with disabilities, not as an afterthought or reminder. Sometimes they think of other populations, but they don't think of people with disabilities. And with that, you know, I think that, you know, your other caller, Perry Jew, talked about legislation, that legislation will automatically be updated and improved if it's necessary to strengthen the ADA or other laws that come along to help people with disabilities.

Yes, I agree with you. You know, I feel the day has to come when the needle finally moves on employment I hope that there is finally across-the-board enforcement on digital accessibility because when I heard Tony speak, he said a recent study showed that 98.1% of websites were not completely accessible. And like, that just blew me away. I thought, you gotta be kidding. Although I do know people that will say, Oh yeah, we're going to have to take care of that. Or we started, but we haven't finished it yet. I love what Jenny Lay-Flurry, the accessibility officer at Microsoft, said to me when I was talking to her about how some companies will say, well, I think we're mainly accessible. And she said, if you think it, you aren't. Like, if you think, are we accessible? Well, if you have to ask that question that you think we are, then you probably aren't. So, you know, I really hope the day is going to come when that won't be an afterthought or a should be, but it would be a must be. You know, it must be done with all companies and internal applications. Because if I get a job and I go to work at a company in accounting, but those, uh, those, those applications are not accessible. What's that going to do for me? Nothing. So, and I, I like the things that you stressed also, um, Elaine. You know, another thing I hope that we start seeing more, uh, people with disabilities running for office. You know, when Perry Jude was talking about Senate and the House of Representatives, I thought I only wish more people would run for office, people with disabilities. And wouldn't that be a great thing?

Oh, I think with the ADA generation, they certainly will be doing that. You'll see that soon.

I think so also. But right now, we're going to go to break. Before we come back, if you just joined us, we've been talking to Elaine Katz, Senior Vice President from the Kessler Foundation. Always remember, if you want to hear any of these shows again or share it with someone else, just go to Spotify or Apple and subscribe to Disability Matters with Joyce Bender on Voice America, and you will have all the podcasts. So, um, share that with people also. All right, we'll be right back. Don't go away. Ask the experts.

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VoiceAmerica.com. Since 1985, Bender Consulting Services has served as a national leader in advancing employment of people with disabilities, including veterans with disabilities, with private sector companies and federal government agencies. Bender assists customers with achieving their diversity and workforce inclusion initiatives by tapping into a talent pool of individuals seeking professional positions, including those in the STEM fields. In addition, Bender services include disability employment consulting, training in technology accessibility, through their high-test line of service. For more information, please visit www.benderconsult.com. The Voice America Live Events channel is here now to showcase your corporate, individual, or organization's live event. Visit voiceamerica.com/liveevents to see all of our past live events and find out more. Whether it's a multi-day conference, special speaker, or single-day event, We've got everything to make your event a success. We can do a few hours or a few days. For more information about taking your event to the next level, call Jeff Spinard at 480-294-6417 or email info@voiceamerica.com. Again, that's Jeff Spinard at 480-294-6417 or send us an email to info@voiceamerica.com. Voice America. America is where you are and where you want to be. Join us around the globe as we broadcast live from some of the most interesting events available. Don't forget to view all our live events, including on-demand access to past events that you may have missed, by visiting voiceamerica.com/liveevents.

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Com. You're listening to Disability Matters. If you have a question or comment, call in toll-free at 1-866-472-5788. That's 1-866-472-5788. Now please welcome back the host of Disability Matters. Here's Joyce Bender.

Oh, hi everyone, welcome back to the show. And if you did just join us, We've been talking to my friend Elaine Katz, Senior Vice President of Grants and Communications at the Kessler Foundation, as she is living through a tropical storm, uh, of course related to the hurricane. So if you hear her breaking up, that's the reason. But as I told her, we'll be having her back on again, uh, later this year. So Elaine, you have done so much. I was thinking about this. You've already done so much in your life, and as I said, I've seen you at so many different things and events over the years, but if you had to, what would you list as some of your greatest accomplishments?

I think working to increase the percentage of people with disabilities in the workforce through our grants, through our initiatives, through our network I think that's really made a difference. The Kessler Foundation was the first one to really focus on employment exclusively for people with disabilities. And now we have groups like Ford Foundation that's interested in that and many others working in that space. So we were the first, and I think that was about 14 years ago now. So I think that's really our breakthrough accomplishment.

And how about in your life?

In my life, I think advocating for people with disabilities, being a parent raising a child with a disability, and advocating for people with disabilities, I think, has, you know, set me on the path to understand what it's like to live with a disability and try to help others as well.

You know what, Elaine, I always say, give me the parent of a child with a disability and look out, they'll be on fire. And, and that is so true. One way or another, people get, uh, involved. And I just want to thank you for everything you and the Kessler Foundation have been doing during this time to be so supportive of people with disabilities. Do you think, Elaine, that at some point, hopefully in the not too far future, that we will be able to finally reduce stigma toward people with disabilities such as— not like me specifically, but people like me with epilepsy or psychiatric disability. How long do you think that's going to take to reduce that stigma?

I think it's going to take a long time to reduce the stigma. There's so many prejudices and stigmas that individuals have. I think it's more a question of understanding and accepting them and recognizing even though people have differences that people can be valuable employees, they can be valuable community members, they can be valuable teachers and have value in all our lives.

Well, wouldn't that be, wouldn't that be really a great thing? I see so much promise and hope, but you know, when you say it's going to be here a long time, it is. I wish it wasn't like that, but you know how we can stop, stop that a little at a time? Employment. When you hire a person with a disability, you are helping to change the workface of America, but you know what else you're doing? You're showing other people that even if you have a disability, you still have great value and you still can contribute so much. I don't know about you, Elaine, but have you seen that? Have you noticed when companies hire people with disabilities that it makes a difference on what they think?

I think the more you come into contact with somebody who has differences like disabilities, the more you realize that they are capable and have abilities, and especially in the workplace. You know, everybody's a little bit fearful of somebody who's different. And once you start working alongside a colleague and you understand how they contribute to projects, how they think about things maybe differently because they've had to adapt their whole lives to doing things a little bit different, especially if they have some mobility issues, and like we talked about, there was no curb cuts, how did you get to work if you couldn't get up the curb or in the building? And some people made extraordinary efforts to have friends and family help them into work settings. I think that really does make a difference in understanding how valuable somebody can be. And we did a survey in 2017 with supervisors, and we saw that really it makes a difference when the people at the top of a company put forth and say, "Yes, we're going to hire people with disabilities as part of our diversity initiatives." And that directive comes down to the managers, and the managers hire people, and they realize how great people can be in jobs. And that changes the culture. And I think it's the culture that needs to change in some of these companies to really move forward and remove that stigma.

Yeah. Yes. Well, Elaine, before we end the show, first of all, thank you so much for being with us today. Keep fighting the fight. Keep doing all this great work at the Kessler Foundation. But what message would you like to leave with our listeners today?

I think what's really important to leave with your listeners today, that although, you know, we're in very difficult times, it's important to stay focused on our work, that we have to be committed and motivated to move the issue of employment for people with disabilities disabilities. COVID may present some challenges, but along with that challenge comes lots of opportunity, and I think we have to remember the opportunity.

Yes, we do. Well, you know, this week— this past week, I'm sorry— we lost a great, great, great man when we lost John Lewis. And I've met him, I admired him, I mean, what a great American. So we end every show with a quote, and today it has to be from him when he said, "If you see something that is not right, not fair, not just, you have a moral obligation to do something about it," said John Lewis. Don't forget it. What great advice and what a great man. This is Joyce Bender America's Voice: Where Disability Matters at voiceamerica.com. Talk to you all next week.

Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific Time and 2 PM Eastern Time for another installment of Disability Matters right here on here on the Voice America Variety Channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.