ENCORE: Louis Olander: Disability:IN Supports Veterans with Disabilities

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Hi everyone, welcome to the show. Uh, this is Joyce Bender on Disability Matters. And thank you, thank you, thank you for being with us today. Thank you to the 70 countries. I saw the data that listened to this show from Australia to China to Russia, Iceland. Wow, there was one person from Iceland. How about that? But you know what I always say, one person, one person can make a difference because what you need to do, no matter where you are around the world, You need to let other English-speaking people with disabilities know about this show. Right now in this world, you know, there's a lot going on, not all good, and a lot of people with disabilities feel— already felt left out or not worthy. I know when I traveled to Indonesia, Asia, Japan, I know Kazakhstan, that they're was pervasive shame across the board. So, you know, here's a way to give hope. Here is a way— this radio show. So do your part, continue listening and spread the news. And in the United States, the same thing. You know what a lot of people are going through right now. You know the fears they have. Do you know we're the only show with the news every week disability news on what's happening nationally. We are the only place you can go anywhere in the world to hear that every week, every week live. So I owe it all to you. And hey, Yoshiko Dart, Yoshiko, special shout out to you, Yoshiko. Thank you for always supporting the Bender Leadership Academy. You know how I love you. And Highmark. I love Highmark. Yeah, I do. You know why? Because they have stayed with me from the beginning, 30 years ago when I first got started. And here they are, lead sponsor of this show. So, Highmark, thank you so much. And you know, this weekend we celebrated Memorial Day. But I would hope that you think about it more than just on one day. And when I met Lewis Olander, who works as the Director of Research and Veterans Initiative for Disability:IN, every so often in my life I meet someone and like right then I like them. Right then I have like this affinity of spirits with them. That's how it was with Louis. I mean, I liked him from when we had that first conversation and respect him. And you know, today sometimes we don't realize respect, what respect means. Um, and Louis, sir, was in the service as a medic, which is, you might guess, oh my goodness, talk about traumatic. So I respect him. That he did this for all of us. So, Lou, it's an honor to have you on the show today as we continue to celebrate Memorial Day. And as I just said, you're a hero, you're a champion to all of us. And may I tell you, listeners, you probably figured out since I don't endorse people, he is the real deal. He is, um, and he gives hope to veterans with disabilities and small business owners, veterans with disabilities that are also small business owners. So, Louis, every time I have someone on, I have them tell a little bit about you, but we're going to start with, uh, the Iraq War. You served as a medic. We all know how hard that must have been. Um, can you comment about going through that?

Hey Joyce, um, yeah, thank you for having me on. It's, it's a real pleasure. It's your, your words are very kind and I appreciate them a great deal. Um, yeah, I, I, you know, Iraq was a tough time in my life. 2004, 2005, I was there. This year I'm sort of reliving the 20th anniversary of everything. And, you know, it's, it is, as you said, a painful, traumatic experience. I think a lot of people are proud of their service. And, you know, I've gone back and forth with, with sort of my feelings of pride about it. But, you know, I'll also say that I haven't talked about it you know, for 18 of the 20 years since I came home, I really haven't talked about it. It's been something that I hold very closely. So I'm very thankful for the opportunity to talk about it because I think it is very difficult to impart to people the sort of heaviness of it in any casual day-to-day conversation. So yeah, thank you, Joyce Bender.

You know, I've noticed this— there are people that go through fires, floods, earthquakes, 9/11, um, and I'm not talking about the responders, I'm talking about just people. And of course, many people do not want to talk about it, uh, that much. But no matter what war If someone is in a war from Vietnam, World War II, no matter what it is, where they saw people lose their lives and went through it, no one wants to talk about it.

It's— I mean, I think, uh, it's an interesting sort of division in the veteran community that I am finding, um, more and more. You know, I mean, for, for me, I'll sort of speak to my experience. I didn't talk about it because it was painful. You know, it's a very sort of simple line of things. You know, there's not a way to casually bring up, you know, the death of friends or the fear or so many of the other sort of heartbreaking pieces of it. And so, you know, I haven't talked about it mostly out of privacy, mostly out of sort of not wanting to relive difficult experiences. But then there are also veterans who are very proud of their service, who, you know, very proudly wear their decorations and their medals and hats and, you know, have flags. And, you know, that is also a reasonable way of commemorating one service. I just, you know, for me it's always been a little bit more private and a little bit more quiet. I know there are people who think that, you know, those sort of outward displays are insincere. I'm not sure that I agree with that, but it is, um, it is, it is an idea that's out there. And I've also, you know, just not really wanted people to associate me with the war, you know. I mean, I've had a few bad experiences, but also, you know, I had a colleague at one point in time who, when my kids were little, was like, "I can't believe that you were in the Army, that you were in war. You're such a gentle person." I thought that was the nicest compliment I had ever gotten because it felt like I had washed something off of me. It's a difficult thing to talk about. I think you know, as a public school teacher, which I'm sure we'll get into. I talked about it with kids in ways that were appropriate and hopefully conveyed to them a sense of understanding of what war is and what war does to people. But yeah, it is just difficult to talk about.

Well, I think That's because also there isn't anything like it, although sexual assault, there are things that, um, but that is your right to keep it private. And I will say, as I said before, I have only respect for you, Louis. So our listeners like to know about the person. They don't want to just hear them on the show, like, where did you grow up? Where'd you go to school? Uh, you know, when did you work in the area of disability in your teaching career? And I know you were a public school teacher. All great things. So let's hear about that.

Yeah, so, um, when I was a kid, I moved around between military bases. My father wasn't in the military but worked on the military bases, and so I, I was really raised around the military. When I was 18, I I, you know, graduated high school, I joined the New York National Guard thinking, you know, this is April of 2001, thinking that I was going to shovel snow, maybe get involved if, uh, if there was a transit strike, something like that. And then, uh, I was, I was actually on, on September 10th, 2001, I started basic training. And so my expectations for what my time in the service were going to be, and then the reality of them, were very, very different because of that experience. You know, I was in Iraq for a year and came home at sort of end of 2005. There really were not transition resources to speak of at the time that I came home. I just sort of came home and I landed in a VA hospital in New York City. And I was the youngest person by probably 20 or 30 years. And Resources were very limited, and disability compensation for injuries was really the only thing that was available sort of to me as a transition service. But the wait times were really long. I think it was 18 months that it took for them to say, okay, yeah, we are on the hook for that one, and here's your compensation. But You know, I learned the hard way, both in those first few jobs coming out of the service in my 20s, that, you know, a lot of people were not prepared to talk about war or PTSD or combat. You know, I had a physical impairment at that time that was much more visible than it is now. And I, for one period of time walked with a cane, you know, as a 25-year-old, which is not typical in New York City. But, you know, I think after that, I really held things to myself. I think part of the journey that I'm on now is finding new ways to talk about it, because I think one of the reasons wars keep happening is because I don't think generations necessarily share their experiences with younger generations, and then young people never really understand the easy way how terrible war really is. So, yeah, I hope that's enough to— I should say one last thing would be just, you know, I was a special education teacher in New York City, and so I encountered disability in a very different context there, especially when being disabled was sort of synonymous in, in a public school with being naughty or having bad behavior. Um, and, and so there are all sorts of other sort of entanglements with disability on that side of things. Um, yeah.

Wow. I'll have more questions about that, but right now we're going to get ready to go to break. If you just tuned in, we are talking to Louis Olander, Director of Research and Veterans Initiatives at Disability. And don't go away, we'll be right back.

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You're listening to Disability Matters. Now please welcome back the host of Disability Matters, Here's Joyce Bender.

Hi everyone, welcome back to the show. We have as our guest today Louis Olander, the Director of Research and Veterans Initiatives for Disability:IN. And by the way, July is the Disability:IN conference coming up soon. You can still register to go. Disability:IN org, disabilityn.org, if you want more information and want to register for the conference. And later on, I'm going to have Louis tell us more about what these conferences are like. Louis, I'll only say one thing: I went to these conferences when there were maybe 150 people there. Now, last year when I went, I looked up front, I said, oh my God, there's so many people in here. I'll be able to get my 10,000 steps in just getting to the front. I mean, I remember when you would go and there were tables. I'd rush in there real fast to get our table. No more tables. Now we're all sitting in chairs. And wow, it's just amazing. But we'll talk about that later. I am excited to have Rachel Maddow. Oh no, it's Jennifer Mathis. Jennifer Mathis with us for Mathis on the Mic. Jennifer, welcome to the show.

Thank you.

Well, I'm sure you have a lot of news for us. There's so much going on. It's really, to be honest with you, it's hard to keep up with it. Seems for people with disabilities people are calling me all the time, what's happening, what should we do, you know, what's happening to veterans, what's happening to veterans with disabilities. So, um, I don't even know where you want to start, but take it away.

Yeah, so as you say, there is so much going on that is of concern for people with disabilities, um, that there's too much to talk about in a news segment like this and, and cover everything that should be covered, but I've been trying to pick every week a couple things or one thing to focus on. And so, um, this week I thought I would focus primarily on some stuff happening at HHS, but I also wanted to start by just giving an update on this budget reconciliation bill because That bill passed the House of Representatives at the end of last week. It was Thursday night that that bill passed the House of Representatives, and I think we talked about that bill last week. It is very, very concerning for people with disabilities. It would cut Medicaid by more than $700 billion. It would result in at least 8.5 million people losing Medicaid coverage and other people losing Affordable Care Act coverage. I think 5 million people would lose Affordable Care Act coverage because Congress, at least on the House side, did not extend the premium subsidies that help people get health insurance on the marketplace. And so that's a lot of people losing coverage. And as I think the most of the listeners know, or many listeners know, Medicaid really is a lifeline for people with disabilities, provides basic services, not just medical services, but just all kinds of services that people need to live in the community. And in their own homes. And so, um, that bill is now going over to the Senate, and it is very important that people stay engaged. I think the Senate is where, um, we hope to see changes to that bill, um, to make it less draconian, less, less, um, uh, dramatic for people with disabilities. And, uh, we would hope that It will not pass in a form that will cut people off of Medicaid and cut people off of other health coverage and also food stamps. It cuts about almost $300 billion in food stamps as well as it passed from the House. So, and it would impose Medicaid work requirements. That's a big part of how it would cut people off of Medicaid. It's not, as we've talked about before, it's not that people with disabilities can't work, but what the work requirements do, and we know this from past experience, is that they result in many, many people losing their benefits because they get caught up in red tape, because they don't— it's confusing what you have to do to report. That you're working or that you're engaging in other activities that you have to do. And it's difficult for people to figure out what they're supposed to do and how to do it correctly and how often they're supposed to do it. Sometimes it's difficult for people to get access to a computer to do it, or if they call on the phone, that they get people not answering the phone and they stay on hold for long periods of time and they keep trying again and not getting through. And so that's how people lose coverage. So again, it's important for people to focus now on the Senate. You can contact your senators just to say, please don't cut Medicaid, don't cut healthcare for people with disabilities, and don't cut food stamps. Those are the messages I think that are most important for people to hear if you have a personal story about what Medicaid means to you or to a loved one, then by all means, it's helpful to tell that story. The Senate switchboard is 202-224-3121. So that's one update that I wanted to give. The other update is I just wanted to talk a little bit about things happening with HHS, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. There's a couple of things happening. Back in March, the Secretary, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., announced that he was going to reorganize HHS in ways that significantly impact people with disabilities. A couple of those are that he wants to eliminate the Administration for Community Living and break up that agency and transfer its functions to different places, mainly to the Administration for Children and Families, some of it to the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, some of it to the Assistant Secretary for Planning and Evaluation, also would take SAMHSA, the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, and combine it with some other agencies that have very little relation to SAMHSA's functions, um, like the NIOSH, the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, and the Agency for Toxic Substances Disease Registry. These agencies have little in common with SAMHSA's focus on mental health and substance use disorders. And so it is very concerning that this reorganization would really take functions that are so core to people with disabilities. And I should mention that ACL, the Administration for Community Living, also is the That's the conduit for grants to protection and advocacy agencies for people with disabilities, to independent living centers and other centers, the UCEDDs, the University Centers for Excellence in Developmental Disabilities, the DD councils. All of that comes right now through ACL. For mental health, it comes through SAMHSA. The P&A money for mental health advocacy comes through SAMHSA. And so all of that is going to suddenly go to different places. And these agencies are going to be— they're already dramatically cut, cut pretty much in half. It's SAMHSA. They have eliminated pretty much the entire leadership of the Center for Mental Health Services, which has played such an important role over time in really shaping what community mental health systems look like. And SAMHSA has put out guidance over time for, for state mental health agencies that highlights like, these are the core services, these are the intensive community-based services that you need in your service systems, supportive housing, peer peer support, supported employment services, assertive community treatment, um, and crisis services, mobile crisis, um, all of those things wouldn't be in place in state service systems if SAMHSA wasn't putting out guidance telling states the things to focus on. And so it's been so critically important and It appears that the intent is to largely get rid of that agency's functions, that Center for Mental Health Services, because so many of, like, the whole leadership's been fired pretty much except for one person, and the whole branch of the agency that put out all the guidance on the research on key community mental health services That they've all been fired. Everybody who does the National Survey on Drug Use and Health has been fired. And so all of these things are so important. And it appears that many of them are going away or that, you know, there isn't an intent to fund them in the future. Additional to the reorganization, there was a leaked document that came out, I think in April, was that it was a leaked draft of the president's budget for HHS. And that document, it's not— it's only a leaked draft at this point. It hasn't been issued. But there are some really concerning things in there, too, eliminating more parts of SAMHSA, eliminating things that ACL did. For example, it would entirely eliminate the Protection and Advocacy system, the piece of it that is for people with developmental disabilities. It would eliminate the DD councils. It would eliminate the UCEDDs, the University Centers for Excellence on Developmental Disabilities. So all the research on developmental disabilities. That is so concerning. I cannot imagine going back to the days before we had Protection and Advocacy systems for people with disabilities, and yet that leaked draft is talking about completely eliminating the P&As for people— the Protection and Advocacy agencies for people with developmental disabilities. For mental health, it would cut them by 65%. So it would really cut to the bone the protection and advocacy for people with mental illness.

All of this, I only have one thing to say: call your senator. Yes, gotta do something. You can't just sit back and listen to all this and say, oh my God, this is so horrible, so harrowing. You've Gotta get on the phone. You've gotta get on the phone because getting on the phone will make a difference. And Jennifer, who is a superstar, who is at Bazelon, she has— Bazelon.org. Yes, Bazelon, B-A-Z-E-L-O-N.org. Go there. There's so much good information there. You've got to go there, read about this. And Jennifer, thank you so much. And next week, sadly— well, positively, we hope this doesn't get signed. You know what? We hope that doesn't get— go through. But no matter what, thank you so much.

Yes, absolutely.

All right. Okay, my newscaster, you're the best. Bye-bye.

Bye, Jennifer.

So, Louis, do you know what I mean? You got to pick up the phone and make a phone call if you want to see a difference. Don't you agree?

Absolutely.

Sitting back won't make the change. Absolutely. Okay, well, back to a happy topic. Disability:IN, when I went and I was the first DOBE, as you know, Disability Business Enterprise, it has grown so much. Louis, how large is the membership today of Disability:IN?

Yeah, so we have over 500 corporate partners, nearly 1,000 disability-owned business enterprises, including a good number of veteran disabled veteran-owned businesses. It's— I mean, the growth is, is incredible. And for me, as somebody who's relatively new to the organization, relatively new to the whole space, it's, it's so impressive. And it is so interesting, you know, to sort of go back for a moment. A lot of my work was in, was in inclusive education and finding ways to include kids with disabilities in the public school system, especially when they were racially segregated. But, you know, that— the levers that Disability:IN uses to change or to promote change are really unbelievable, as is their membership, to me.

Yeah. Globally, I think last year globally there had to be almost 3,000. There were 3,000 in person. Just as you say, these 600 companies, they all bring people, right?

So it was thousands of attendees.

Yeah, thousands. It's, uh, the most wonderful thing. Uh, but you know, what is it? What is a disability conference? Because when I first mentioned it, people will say, oh, what do they do? Is that some medical group? I say, "Oh no, don't even say that. That's like a swear word to me." No, that's not what it is. But why don't you tell our listeners what is Disability:IN and what is the conference?

Yeah, Disability:IN is the leading nonprofit resource for business disability inclusion worldwide. With our partner companies, we drive progress through initiatives, tools, and expertise that deliver long-term business impact. So in other words, we are a sort of set of resources and toolkits and all sorts of expertise that we bring to our corporate partners in order to support them in hiring and retaining and including people with disabilities through their supply chains. It's a wide range of activities we have all around the idea of including with people. People with disabilities in the private sector.

And you do do a lot globally now, correct?

Absolutely. Yeah, we're just coming off of a series of European roundtables where we sent some of our experts on a knowledge tour through Europe to engage with some of our partners over there, and the results of that have been also quite remarkable.

And it is in Orlando, Florida. I think it is July 14th through the 17th.

14th to the 17th.

Yeah, yeah, July 14th through the 17th. And what is the website again, Louis?

It's disabilityin.org. Um, so yep, that's all the information is there. Registration Information, everything is, is on disabilityin.org.

And I want to tell you what, people love this conference. They love it. I mean, it is exciting, informative, fun, upbeat. How could it not? With Jill Houghton as the CEO and Brian Horn as her COO. But it is a great conference. So, so much fun. Really, if you're not registered You should. It's just loved by so many people.

It is a really remarkable event and not like any other conference I've ever been to or anything I've heard it described as a dance party over 3 days. I don't know if I'm fully on that. There was only a little bit of dancing, but it very much has a celebration atmosphere. And I know that, you know, the people with disabilities that I've routinely talked to talked about that event as, as sort of the most important singular event, especially because I think it's a place where people with disabilities find community so well. So I know that, that for me, you know, finding veterans who think about themselves as disabled who sort of embrace that disability identity is not remarkably common. And yet at that conference last year, I was able to engage with some really great folks. So again, more to come this year in July.

Lewis, at Disability:IN, what do you do? What is Director of Research and Veterans Initiative? What do you do for Disability:IN?

Yeah. So, so as the title implies, there's sort of two sides to it. The first is that I'll talk about is the Veteran Initiatives piece. We are just wrapping our, you know, one of our early big shots at supporting disabled veterans in the workplace. This Operation Opportunity was a program that has been seeking to get disabled junior enlisted veterans into the corporate workforce. Junior enlisted veterans being the lowest-ranking veterans who come out and often have the roughest outcomes, both in terms of mental health and a number of other dimensions, including employment. And so that target was really important to us, and we're wrapping up that program now and looking forward to the next set of activities and programs that we're going to do around that. But I also work on the research side. And so in addition to that, we have a big, really interesting study about neurodivergent people in the workforce that will be published soon. I'm really excited to share those insights as those come out. I think the big headline is that including neurodivergent people in the workforce intentionally has tremendous collateral benefits for everyone, including both sort of disabled, visibly disabled people and non-disabled people. So it's a really interesting and I think exciting study that we're going to be excited to debut at this conference.

Oh, that is great. Yes, that will be very exciting. Disability:IN often does a lot of things like that. But I wanted to talk for a minute, if you could share, not just with our Adobes, but veteran-owned businesses with disabilities. What would you say are the greatest benefits to being Adobe?

Yeah, well, so, you know, Disability:IN certifies disability-owned businesses. There are more than 51% owned and operated by people with disabilities, and that includes service-disabled veterans as well as disabled veteran-owned businesses, people with disabilities who maybe didn't acquire their disabilities in the course of service. We focus on providing opportunities for disabled entrepreneurs to develop and grow their business. We've had a series of events that, that are focused on this, including last year's Propel program where we certified a number of veterans and went through a supplier development program to help them increase their chances and their competitiveness when bidding for corporate procurement contracts.

Yeah.

Did that answer your question?

Oh, yes. Yes. You know what I always tell people? I tell people, that it is a gift. I call it the disability and gift. If you go to any small business, really mid-sized business, and you say, how do I get in touch with the head of HR at Accenture? Yeah. Oh, wait a minute. How do I meet a partner from there? That would probably help me. How do I meet the head of procurement from Merck? How do I meet these people? Almost impossible. I mean, you're gonna make a call, uh, you're gonna get screened out. You send an email, no one gets back to you. Whereas when you go to Disability:IN, you meet all these people. You have direct access to them. They're right there. That's what I mean when I say a gift to you. And I've met many people. I have customers that I've obtained from going to a Disability:IN conference. But not only that, if you go enough, you become known, you know, you have credibility because this is a credible conference. So if you're listening right now and you are a person with a disability and you own a small business, You should get in touch with me, jbender@benderconsult.com or disabilityin.org, and you ask to talk to Louis or Cammie Turcotte, you know, whomever it is, for the following year. Yeah, you know, because there's a process you go through.

Yeah, absolutely. And I'll add to that, that a lot of veteran entrepreneurs think about veteran— think about federal government contracting as the primary way that they can sort of sustain their business. But there is a whole world of corporate contracting that becomes available. It's a huge door that you can open up by joining our, our Adobe network and gaining access, especially as we see changes in the federal government and how they are spending their, their revenue.

Yes, and you know what, um, that is a very good point. That's a very good point because, as everyone knows, many people have lost their federal contracts. This is why I tell people the reason I didn't— I only work with the private sector. But it's different. And one way it's also different, if they want to work with you, it doesn't take months and months and months and months the way it does with the federal government. So I would encourage you, I would encourage you to do what I just said. So, Louis, I know you haven't been there long, but so far, where are some of your favorite success stories from Disability:IN?

Yeah, I mean, I, as I was saying before, I'm so impressed with how Disability:IN identifies and then activates new levers to promote disability inclusion. The work that, that Ali Torres does with chief marketing officers to activate people's thinking about the, the purchasing power of people with disabilities is important segment of the market to engage, I think is really important. I think the work that Disability:IN has done around corporate boards and large institutional investors like pension systems to think about disability inclusion as they pick their investment portfolios, I think is really amazing, blows my mind because there was not an analog in public education. And I really appreciate how Disability:IN thinks about disability inclusion at this macro level. Again, which stands in real sharp contrast to how people think about disability inclusion in the public school system as a set of teacher practices or classroom things. So Disability:IN's big picture approach to corporate disability inclusion is really striking and impressive to me.

Yes, it is. It's phenomenal. Uh, well, I look at you and I say to myself, what a wonderful young man, and what a caring young man and respectful young man. So that means there are people that had an impact on you in your life. So who would you say has been your biggest role model?

Yeah, I, um, I, I don't know that I have a role model as such. I will say that right now I'm reading a biography of a German priest who fought against the Nazis, um, and his name is Dietrich Bonhoeffer. Um, so again, really nice compliment somebody issued me was, was to say that the, you know, the way I speak reminds them of him, which, I mean, is an incredible compliment to get. But that, you know, I think about the ways in which, especially now, we can take action, we can use the voices that we have to combat the rising tides of unfairness, of of injustice that seem to be, you know, coming in and going out every day. So, you know, for me, this biography and thinking about Dietrich Bonhoeffer has been a new angle on this, but I'm not sure I do have a role model or if I've ever had one. And also, I want to thank you for calling me young because I tell you, it doesn't feel that way most days.

You are— you— I— no wonder I like you, Lewis. One of my absolute favorite authors is Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who, when I was at Geneva College, uh, in our theology classes, that is— he and C.S. Lewis stand out to me that, you know, I read. And Dietrich Bonhoeffer wrote The Cost of Discipleship and ethics. And if you don't know how powerful this man's life is, if you go to Netflix, they have, uh, films about Dietrich Bonhoeffer. But to point out, he was not Jewish.

No.

Yeah, yeah. But he wanted to fight for the, for the Jews that were being persecuted. Absolutely. And just a great man. What a great choice.

Thank you. Yeah, yeah. I mean, his work, I think, is timely and important now, maybe more than any other time that I've encountered it in bits and pieces. But yeah, I mean, and as somebody who was not somebody we would consider a progressive in any other sense of the word. So he's a really remarkable person, really driven by his mission and commitment to humanity. And so I really deeply appreciate him.

Yeah, I mean, that's a, that's a very good example. So, Lewis, what message do you have for veterans with disabilities who are seeking employment and running into barrier after barrier, uh, sadly some of which end up homeless. What message do you have for them?

Yeah, I mean, I think first that the, the struggles that they face are very real. Um, I think that, um, there is a tendency in a military culture to sort of suppress one's own needs. I think it's, you know, sort of drilled into us. But I think first sort of having a recognition of what help you need and then not being afraid to ask for help. I am so floored how over the last 20 years the ecosystem around supporting disabled veterans and supporting veterans transitioning out of the service has changed. Like I said, when I got out, you know, there was, there was a VA hospital and you could apply for disability compensation. And beyond that, you were kind of just on your own to reintegrate. And, you know, the, the amount of organizations now that are doing really terrific work, I think, are, is incredible and powerful and important. And I would say You know, find those organizations, whether it's American Corporate Partners or Hire Our Heroes USA, or, you know, even emailing me at veterans@disabilityin.org, where, where, you know, I can do my best to sort of steer people in the right direction. Um, but, but first, sort of understanding that, that needing help is not a sign of weakness, and then finding the people who, who have those resources, who are willing to help you. I think it's really amazing how the popular narrative has shifted over the last 20 years. And now, you know, when I had applied for disability compensation, there was a, there was a real strong stigma around it. But again, it was one of the very few avenues for help. Now the military and veterans organizations are starting to talk about those as your, the benefits that you are entitled to. Which is a huge shift in tone over 20 years. So I'm very encouraged by that. But yeah, asking for help is, is, is, is big.

And asking for help does not mean you're weak. Absolutely. I have to stress that asking for help means you're being smart. You know, you either stay back and nothing happens, or you say, no, I'm making a choice. You know what? I am going to reach out and get help. And here, I'll make you feel even better about it. Then you can help someone.

Yeah.

Yeah. And you can pay it forward.

And that's been really remarkable in the work that we've done over the last year with the veterans. There is a real strong desire among veterans to help each other. I think it's tough because one of the lessons I learned the hard way as a medic is that you can't help anyone at all if you are yourself hurt. Taking care of yourself and the importance of that, and a big part of that is often finding and asking for help when you need it.

Yeah, think about— I always tell people to think about what you can do. Yeah, think about how many people you can help. And you can find employment, but you have to reach out. I just will say to all the companies, you know, you don't know anyone that— well, you don't have a situation where you don't know the person, you've never met the person, However, they will die for you.

Mm-hmm.

Or they will acquire a disability for you.

Mm-hmm.

No questions asked. Think about that. Mm-hmm. So now when they come back with a disability and you're not willing to hire them, here's what I say: shame on you. Shame on you. They fought for you. They defended our country. Shame on you. You should have a special initiative where you bring people in, and not as a token, but integrate them into the workforce so they can make money and move up just like anyone else. So if you're a business and you're listening, maybe you forgot So I'll remind you, hire someone with a disability. Louis Bender, it has been a pleasure for me to have you on the show today.

Thank you, Joyce Bender. It's always a pleasure to see you, but thank you very much for having me on.

Of course. And anyone, if you're listening, you're thinking, oh, I wish this person or this friend of mine or whomever had heard this show, not to worry. Go to Apple or Spotify and almost every other social media platform, YouTube, where it's already going to be, where it's going there right now. And right now it's only audio, but in a very short time period it's going to be visual. And I'll look— Jennifer and I will look as if we are on CNN with our guest. But get it, share it, share it. Like, say you have a son, a daughter, husband, wife, brother, sister— I don't care who it is— that did serve and is in a, in a state of depression. You've got to help them, got to provide a resource. Make sure you share this show because they can meet a champion like Louis Olander. This is Joyce Bender, America's Voice, where disability matters, at voiceamerica.com. We end every show with a quote, and I had to use this in honor of Louis and Memorial Day. Our nation owes a debt "to its fallen heroes that we can never fully repay," said President Barack Obama. Remember, when you go out today, in the words of Mary Brooker, remember, choose joy.

Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific time and 2 PM Eastern time for another installment of Disability Matters right here on the Voice America Variety Channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.