Fred Maahs, Jr.-Passionate Advocate for People with Disabilities

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Hey everyone, hope you're off to a great day. This is Joyce Bender. I'm so excited to talk to everyone, and I want to send out A special welcome to all of our listeners in the United States and around the world. You know, China keeps growing with listeners, and I'm so appreciative. But I know you hear me say this on every show. I don't care if it's one person, one in your country. If you're that one, that's great, because you're going to end up spreading that right along. And Yoshiko Dart, Special shout out to you, Yoshiko. Love you, Yoshiko. Hope you are getting ready for ADA Month coming up. You know, I have to mention, since I mentioned around the world, I have to mention Richard Roberts, who is, by the way, also an author. He is a great friend of mine. I first met him in Seoul, and, uh, Seoul, South Korea. And I was just thinking about him when I saw this photograph of me at the American Center the day we were celebrating ADA. That you had a special celebration there. That was so awesome. And I just love Richard so much. And Gangyung in South Korea. Richard's in Okinawa. And Veniamin, who is in Kazakhstan, and Cheryl Harris, who is in Tunisia. In Indonesia, and Ambassador Norland, who is in Libya.

Wow.

We have some great disability rights leaders around the world, and that is so, so awesome. We have a fabulous sponsor. Thank you, Highmark, for being our sponsor for the past 4 years. Such a great company Highmark is, and thank you, David Holmberg, Karen Hanlon, Deb Reich Johnson, Cindy Hundorfeen, Larry Mike Kleinman, all of the leaders, Dan Onorato, McMalik, I could go on forever with all of the leaders that support me from that, from Highmark. It means so much. Well, I am especially excited. I must admit I am biased because this is a friend of mine that I really, really like a lot, but he is also a disability rights leader. And a corporate executive. He has done so much. He's known around the world. He's spoken, you know, he's been across the United States. He was the chair of the board of AAPD, the American Association of People with Disabilities. But first, welcome Fred Mazz. Welcome to the show.

Thank you so much, Joyce. It's a pleasure to be here with you today and with all of our listeners.

And Fred, by the way, in addition to working as an executive at Comcast, as I told you, chair of the board of AAPD, many, many other things, many that he's been involved with, is also an entrepreneur and founder and CEO of Moz Travels. So travels, I just wanted to mention that also. But Fred, since we do have listeners around the world. How about if we start by you telling everyone the Fred Moss story?

I will. Well, thank you, Joyce. I'll try to keep it brief. Um, let me just say this, uh, that, um, when I was 18 years old— I grew up here in Wilmington, Delaware, and lived here my entire life— and, uh, just before going off to college, literally 4 days before I started college. So September 1st of 1980, um, was on vacation. It was Labor Day, so a Monday, with family and friends down at the beach. Was on my father's boat, all of us. And the short of it is I dove off of my father's boat because another boat was heading towards ours, and my first reaction was, "Get in the water, help Dad keep that boat from crashing into ours." Little did I know that the bow of the boat was resting on a sandbar. So when I dove at a height of 8 feet, hit a sandbar at about a foot of water, broke— I didn't know it at the time, but I broke my neck and became paralyzed from the chest down. And then from there was medevacked to Thomas Jefferson Hospital in Philadelphia and spent a month there in intensive, you know, in the ICU and then intensive care and part rehab. And then the following 6 months I spent also in Philadelphia at Magee Rehab. And then once I got out, you know, remember this was 1980, when I got out in '81, This was 9 years before the Americans with Disabilities Act. So for me, just wanting to live an independent, typical life, number one, the college I was going to go to was not accessible, so I had to switch and make different plans. Number two, I didn't see a lot of people like me out and about. People who had some type of disability. And I thought that was strange. I knew for sure that I wasn't the only person with a disability living in Delaware or the Delaware area. And it dawned on me, there just wasn't really much access. You didn't see really accessible transportation, you didn't see curb cuts, you didn't see accommodations that helped people with disabilities to live independently. So that began my journey as a person with a disability, and it was in 1982 that I started my corporate career. After finding a local college that luckily was nearby, they had never had anyone with a disability go there, let alone someone who used a wheelchair. So I spent the summer after I got out of rehab helping them to adapt the campus, and then that fall enrolled full-time in classes.

Wow. I have to ask you a question first. You have incredible fortitude. You're resilient. What gave you the wherewithal after that accident to keep on going?

Great question. You know, I think a lot of it was a lot of love and support from my family. From my friends, the excellent staff at both Thomas Jefferson University Hospital and Magee Rehab. And then a lot of it was, you know, on me, of course. Growing up, I was always told that I was just very independent, so I always liked to do things, you know, as a kid, just explore and understand things. And just find solutions. So I think all of that combined along with, you know, coming to the realization very quickly that the big guy, God, had a different plan for me. And, you know, he threw the curveball and it was for me, I'm very black and white, I'm compartmentalized. So for me, this was, you know, choice A or B. A was to work with it and become as independent as possible and to go on with my life. And that's what I chose to do, and I believe that's what helped me to start my corporate career, very long corporate career, in the spring of 1982 while I was going to college and then worked my way through college in a corporate career.

Oh yeah, well, that's evident because you worked in corporate America for over 30 years, and I know you spent this great time at Comcast. When you first started though, Fred, how did you feel? You know, how did you feel when you first started your career being probably, I'm going to guess, the only person in a wheelchair in your area, your floor, your, you know, whatever, how did you feel?

Well, you know, it's interesting. I started my corporate career in banking over 30 years ago, and so here you go, the building, my first corporate job was in a 2-story building And of course, my office was on the second floor with no elevator. So, so I arranged where family or friends would take me to classes at college in the morning. I would get picked up and then dropped off at work around noon or so. And two guys who became very good friends, would lift me, chair and all, and carry me to the second floor for my work. And remember, you know, no elevator, so lunchroom, accessible bathroom, you know, anything, breaks for dinner, lunch, whatever, you had to go back downstairs. So those two guys really did become my very good friends back then. And he also received some pretty awesome birthday and Christmas gifts each year as a thanks. But that's, that's how I started my corporate career. So, um, you know, my, my boss literally asked me, he said, listen, are you okay with this? And I said, yeah, I mean, you know, let's, let's do this. And, uh, so carrying up and down the stairs for about 3 years until we moved into a new building, a newer building that did have an elevator, fortunately. And that's how it was back then. People with disabilities were either overlooked or were an afterthought. And that's why in many cases, again, back then, people with disabilities were referred to as shut-ins. There was no access for them to have jobs or live independently. Independently, and I was very fortunate to, you know, to go out and find something and find people who were willing to help, help me to, you know, to be as independent as possible.

You know what, that's amazing, that story. And, you know, if you're listening to the show, you meet Fred now that he's had this successful corporate career and so well known for all his work as a disability leader and advocate, but you weren't there to see that part. When people had to carry him up 2 steps, I mean, to get to the second floor, you weren't there then. And sometimes people forget what people with disabilities went through to just get where they are today. And Fred, I never knew that story. And that is an amazing story, you know, what you went through to work. This is what I always say, people with disabilities, now Fred's the example right there, would give anything to work, including being carried up 2 flights of steps. So there's your example right there with Fred Moss, what he did to get started and to work. But you know, Fred, you didn't just work in corporate America. You also worked and became known internationally as a renowned disability advocate. What I'm meaning is many people have disabilities, but they don't all decide, "Oh, I want to be an advocate," but you did. Why is that?

Right. Well, again, I'll go back to my very first experiences after I got out of rehab. Just finding even here in the small state of Delaware that things just were not accessible. And again, family and friends, we would travel together, we would go places together, and I always would always say, they would say, "Geez, we can't get into that place. What are we going to do? They have no elevator," or, "There's no parking," or whatever the situation was, and I would always say to them, there's always a plan B. So like many other people, I could probably write a book or maybe even a very funny movie about the alleyways and back doors and odd ways that I've been kicking into Buildings and other places over the years, but, you know, that's how it was, and that's really the impetus of why I felt I had to do something. I had to help not only myself, but other people with disabilities who, as you said, maybe didn't decide that they wanted to be an advocate or to to be a voice. Everybody has a voice and you either choose to use it or allow others to. And I would say that was my impetus. So all through my 30-plus corporate career, working for Comcast and other Fortune 50 and 30 companies, I just worked my way through volunteering outside of work and even in work through nonprofit organizations and other ways to represent and help people with disabilities, first at the local level and then became state and it grew to federal and then eventually to an international level. But I have to tell you, you know, All of that experience was tremendous, and I've met so many wonderful people along the way and was fortunate to have the support of the companies that I worked for to partner with and support lots of great organizations, including AAPD and Easterseals, The Arc, and many others. But all the while, Joyce, it's— it felt part-time. And by that I mean my passion, my true passion was— and going back to what I said before, I think all of this happened for a reason. I think God wanted me to do something with this and to help others. So in 2019, I went to my boss at the time and I And I told him, I said, "It's time, it's time." And he understood and he gave me his full support. And so I started my own consulting firm and then I thought it would have some downtime frankly and it just blossomed where over the past 2 years now, also partnering with a company out of Canada called Travel For All as their partner and CEO, where we provide accessible and inclusive travel options for people with special needs, special requirements all over the world. I believe we're the only company that does that globally, where we work with a network of over 1,000 partners. So, if Joyce wants to go to Machu Picchu and she needs a wheelchair, accessible transportation, oxygen, and a caregiver, we'll work with our partners to make sure that not only do you have all of those in place for your trip, but we'll also book, of course, your air and your hotel for you. And then, About later that year, in early 2020, I partnered with another lady out of Canada who's from Grenada for a magazine called Mélange Accessibility for All. And as a new magazine, I was asked to be their editor. So we have— we launched that in October of last year. And our good friend Tony Coelho was on the COVID and we did it during the month of October on purpose. And it just so happens that you, this radio host, was also a subject of a recent article in one of our issues. And it's a wonderful magazine where we tell stories and we have articles about people and places and products and You name it, from all over the world that are somehow impacting people with disabilities. And it's just been wonderful to meet and interview so many, so many just wonderful people who are doing really great things. And these places that you find that are accessible that you never would have dreamed of, uh, you know, we're writing about them. And, um, so I've been fortunate, I, I really have. And it's been, uh, working with great people and, uh, just being fortunate and just, just working hard at it.

Wow, I know that is so exciting. And I want to talk about all of that in a little more detail. I mean, what you're doing now, but you also As you were saying, you did so much, Fred, for the disability community as a corporate executive. And something that stands out in my mind is the PSA you did for AAPD, which all of this was a result of you, all these things that happened with Easterseals and with The Arc and everyone. I just want all of our listeners to know how much you did for all these other organizations. I mean, the disability community. But that was a big thing you did.

Well, you know, it wasn't just me, as you know. It was being able to show the companies that I worked for, and especially at Comcast, NBCUniversal, the importance of the disability population and what a critical and integral part that people with disabilities have, you know, in our community. And we all know that, you know, about 1 in 5 people around the world have some type of disability, yet we remain, as you well know, the most underemployed and overlooked population, even though we're the largest demographic. And we've got to find ways to change that. I would say, you know, when I first joined Comcast, I was probably one of the very few people with a visible disability, and through the different steps that they made and programs that they had and continue to do, that's changed quite a bit, and they are investing quite a bit, not just financially, but quite a bit in human resources as well to level the playing field for people with disabilities. So again, it wasn't just me, it was a lot of other people behind the scenes who believed in it. And as we all know, nothing happens without support from the top, and I give all credit to Brian Roberts, the CEO of Comcast NBCUniversal, David Cohen, who was overseeing all of our philanthropic efforts at the time, and many other roles that he had. But that's where it starts. When you have that support and just belief from the very top, that's when things get done.

That is so true. That is so true. And Fred, when you went into your own business, so just so we have this right, do you still do consulting also?

Correct. So when I began my business in 2019, it literally, that was my primary business, consulting in the disability space, working with companies and nonprofits, individuals all over for lots of different topics and issues relating to people with disabilities and helping them to find solutions in many different ways. But what I quickly found, and it made all the sense in the world, right, during my entire corporate career, I did quite a bit of travel. I was on a plane, it seemed, almost just about every other week. So while traveling, both before the ADA and certainly well after, finding all different types of issues that anyone with any type of disability would face. And so what I would typically do is I would meet with the manager either during or after my stay and show them., you know, with these few changes, how, you know, everyone, not just people with disabilities, could really benefit. And again, I'm not just limiting that to mobility impairments, but really across the spectrum, you know, with my experience and my exposure to, you know, a vast number of disabilities, that I was just, again, exposed to over the years or learned about or could speak about. And that's what I began, a real focus on accessible travel and tourism. And so that has now evolved while I'm still consulting, that's my primary business. We really do focus on— accessible travel and tourism, so working with ministries of tourism, government, city planners, other government agencies, and hoteliers, and I mean, you name it, around the world to really make things accessible for all. And if we could get more people, more companies, more organizations to really adopt this whole approach of universal design. It's not just, you know, Fred using a wheelchair and being able to have access. It's anybody with any type of disability being able to access that place, that building, that museum, that, you know, whatever tourist travel destination spot one D, you know, it's possible. We just have to get people educated. We have to show them what the benefits are, again, for everyone, and then get everybody rowing in the right direction, in the same direction.

Yeah, because I see many different components here. For example, if a business listening to the show, if you have employees that are in a position where they're required to travel, and let's say they use a wheelchair, this would be a great contract to have with Fred so that, you know, he could just handle all of that. His company could handle all of that for you When you have people that are gonna travel, they could have paraplegia, they could have quadriplegia, but instead of you trying to spend time figuring that out, Fred could do that. Then for people with disabilities that want to travel, that's a pain in the neck. You know that, Fred. So hard it is to get travel right. For people with disabilities. And I'm going to guess, tell me if you think this is correct, that a vast majority of people with disabilities that have mobility issues, you know, or whatever it is, that they do not know they could travel to a lot of what I'll say tourist sites because they can't figure out accessibility. Do you think that's true?

Oh my gosh, 1000%. So Travel for All, what we do is, you know, we're helping people who are on dialysis, people who are blind, people who are hard of hearing, people on the autism spectrum. I mean, you name it, we're helping all different types of people with all different people, all different people with different types of disabilities to to enjoy the world, to travel the world. And the interesting thing is, and when I'm working with governments or hoteliers or pure businesses, and they're trying to understand why they should invest a small amount, comparatively speaking, to accommodate people with disabilities by making things accessible for all, when they're trying to think, geez, why should I spend money, you know, and we're only getting this many visitors with disabilities each year, or we're not getting any. What I try to show them is with the disability population, so if you were to take conservatively about 1.4 billion with a B like boy around the world have some type of disability, not just mobility impairments, but some type of disability. Out of that population— and there's this stigma that people with disabilities are poor, by the way, which is not entirely true— that population has nearly $8 trillion, with a T like Tom, dollars in disposable income alone for travel and entertainment., but they're only spending about 43% of that. And here's why: because they don't know that places are accessible or places actually are not accessible. So, along with making places accessible and changing their approach for, again, government, businesses, you name it. And doing it for the right reasons, there's also a pure business case for doing it. Strictly business. And if they want to talk dollars and cents, and they want to talk return on investment, there is no clearer picture than that. And recently with a client, one example, we did a lot of research and we showed them that they had primarily visitors coming from 3 countries, all under the age of 55. And what I was able to show them is because they literally had no access, zero access, once their guests reached the age of 55 or older, statistically, those folks would have some type of disability and therefore not be able to return to that travel destination. So suddenly they're losing all of these repeat visitors, that repeat business, which, which they typically rely heavily upon. So, you know, if we can, if we can change people's mindset and show them why it makes sense to do all of this for so many reasons. We're also able to train, you know, the staff of these entities— governments, businesses, other— to how to work with people with disabilities, how to employ people with disabilities. So there are other reasons to do this. And in many of these countries, especially in the Caribbean and and some of the countries over in Europe where disability is more predominant, we can show countries and businesses, governments that we're able to employ people with disabilities and not have them rely on government support specifically or other means of support.

Yeah, that is, uh, that is a great offering. You know, Fred, when you said about that, uh, trillion dollars, uh, available for purchase, remember everyone, if a family has a child, a spouse, uh, you know, sibling, anyone with a disability, trust me, they're going to be orientate towards spending money to services that are accommodating to them so that that money is there. That money is there, not just from a person with a disability, but from a whole family. And how great is it to be able to take your spouse or partner or anyone using a wheelchair on a vacation? I mean, that is just a wonderful thing that I'll bet many people have been excluded from. Fred, I know even at national parks, they have different areas that are accessible because when I was at Yellowstone, I remember seeing that. So that was my next question. If someone comes to you and they would say, Fred, you know, I want to travel, we'll say Europe, Would you be able to give them insight as to where it is more accessible?

Yes. So again, if we have not traveled there to that destination ourselves, we have an entire network of disability specialists that we work with that can attest to and actually help recommend those accessible destinations. So again, it's—, not just for wheelchair users or mobility impairments, but other types of disabilities as well. And there's— you're right, let's get back to national parks for a second. I think over the past number of years, national parks have done a much better job than maybe they have in the past of becoming more accessible for all. Still work to do, but I would say it's much better than it used to be where they are trying to make the necessary accommodations for mobility impairments, hearing impairments, sight impairments, you name it. Even to the point where many national parks are even offering quiet spaces and safe spaces for people who are on the spectrum, etc. So, you know, it's— look, we're now 31 years past the Americans with Disabilities Act, passage of the Americans Americans with Disabilities Act. We're still talking about this, right? We've made a lot of progress, but we all know we still have a lot of work to do. And we also know that disability doesn't discriminate, right? It cuts across every other demographic bar none. So that's why we all have to pay attention to this. We all have to agree to do something about it. And I think once we get there, whenever there is, we're not going to have this discussion. We don't need to have it anymore. That's my dream. That's my utopia, that, you know, as much as I love your show, Joyce Bender, someday it's going to be obsolete because we've finally reached our goal. Finally reached utopia.

You know what, Fred, when I started Bender Consulting Services 26 years ago now, never ever if someone would tell me, "Oh, Joyce, you know, by the 31st anniversary of the ADA," you know, and this would have been in 1995, If someone had said, you're still going to have 70% of people with disabilities not counted in the workforce, I would not have believed them. I would not have believed them. I really would not. Yeah, and I would not believe that people with disabilities are often not included even in diversity. Of course, today, unfortunately, 1,000 corporations, the majority are, but there are still companies that have disability like off to the side. And, you know, I just don't understand it. I don't understand it why this would be when you have people that are bright. I used to say to people that, oh yeah, even 20 years from now, You know, by then it will be Bender of India or, you know, Bender of South Korea. In other words, I thought everything would be fine, I'd be moving on. But aren't you somewhat shocked, Fred, that it's still this way? I totally— from when you were that young man that they had to carry up two flights of steps. Aren't you shocked still?

Very. And, you know, I agree with you totally that, you know, listen, it's just been an issue for so many years and always was, again, an afterthought or no thought at all put into it. That it is still taking quite a bit to change the minds of leaders and others. I thank God that for the most part, you know, we have a President now, President Biden, who is doing something about this. And really, really is sincere about it. If you look at his appointments for his staff members and other things that he's done already in the first few months of his presidency on behalf of people with disabilities, I think, you know, we're on the right path. Is it perfect? Absolutely not. And we still have many leaders in Congress and in in other places that either don't care or don't get it, and it only matters when it happens to them. But I think we're on the right path, and I think if, again, if we continue to educate and inform and to keep pressing forward, we will get there. It's gonna take time, but we will get there. Listen, I talk to people in countries literally every single day. Every day goes by, I'm on the phone or Zoom calls, team meetings. They're our next best friend now, so all of this virtual stuff. And I'm talking to people in Sri Lanka or other places, Jordan, the Maldives, you name it. And accessibility, the word accessibility has no meaning in many places. They just don't get it. They don't understand the concept of accessibility or why it's important. And then when they do, they realize that, geez, it is important, and they want to do something about it. But unfortunately, in many countries around the world, especially throughout the Caribbean, They lack government support, which I still find to be just absurd. Government support for funding or other means of support to change this and take accessibility out of it for just a millisecond, but even to help people who have some type of disability in these countries, in these places, be able to survive, just survive. Again, take accessibility out for a millisecond, and they're not doing that. And I'm hearing these awful stories, just horrible stories of people in the Caribbean, people in Rwanda, people even in the Ukraine and other places that because there is no government support or very little, but usually none. People are literally dying in their homes because they can't get out. They can't have a job, they can't buy food, they can't— there's no way to have any type of healthcare. And what are we gonna do about it? What are we, when we find out about these things, what are we gonna do about it? So we have to make noise. And as Congressman Lewis would say, you know, we've got to get in good trouble, right? We've got to speak up. We've got to do something about it. And hopefully that's my little giveback to the world is to try to do something about it, to try to speak up and make people aware of what's going on and then working with, with the right people, hopefully, to, to try to change it.

It's not a little thing, it's a big thing, it's an enormous thing that you're talking about doing and challenging other people to do. And that's where that Convention on Rights of Persons with Disabilities comes in and how we have to make that happen. And with, uh, President Biden I believe it will. I really do. We have a president with a disability. He is so committed to diversity. I think you can see that, as Fred said, through his appointments. And boy, Fred, you must be proud from your own state.

Yep. He— I will tell you, I've known President Biden I've not personally known him, but we've shared stages and many other events over the years. But he lives about 10 minutes from where I am, where I live, and in the small state of Delaware. So it's a pretty big deal when he's, you know, in town for the weekend. I'm hoping that people are more generous than not, and as far as if there's a little bit of inconvenience when traffic is tied up a little bit. Super proud of, you know, Delaware's own becoming the president after serving so many years as a senator, and literally, you could say his entire life has been devoted to service. And God bless him. You know, he waited long and hard for this, and he's doing whatever he can to, to make things right and to lead the country in the right direction, I think. And we just need to, you know, have everybody on both sides of the table agree. It doesn't have to be all his way. It's just got to be the right way, whatever is right for the American people. And, and I think he's trying to do that.

Yes, I do too. I really do. And I also really am proud of him and think that he's an absolutely wonderful president. So, I think the disability community will see what I mean as they see him move forward. As I said, a president with a disability, I mean, you know, what more could you possibly ask for than have someone that really understands what people with disabilities go through, especially people with some type of speech difficulty. So, I'm really excited about that also, Fred. So, Fred, a couple last questions. First, why don't you share with our listeners, there's something that happened to you in DC where you were asked to speak at something, and I know you know what I'm talking about, where you were so honored honored to speak. Do you want to tell our listeners about that?

Well, yes. Thank you, Joyce Bender. Well, as you mentioned, I was the past chair of the board for the American Association of People with Disabilities, and it was during that time, while I was serving as chair of the board, that the 50th anniversary of the March on Washington was taking took place in 2013, and we were contacted and asked to represent—for the very first time, by the way—the nation's disability population. And so on August 28th of that year, 2013, was on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial with Presidents all the presidents there, President Obama, President Carter, and President Bush at the time, just delivering a speech. And I'm just reflecting as I'm talking about it because it was very emotional that you're literally celebrating 50 years, the 50th anniversary of the March on Washington, and you're surrounded by just people that you've always looked up to your entire life. You know, I'm sitting next to Congressman Lewis and speaking to President Biden, you know, at the time he was Vice President Biden, and he's in front of me and And all of these people who have just impacted the world for so many years. And so, yes, I was able to— very honored to deliver a speech representing the nation's disability population during that celebratory event. And a quick funny aside, if I may. So the night before, as you know, we were invited to a reception at the White House, and so lots of people were there, and when we got to the White House and were invited in, it was so crowded. The room where President Obama and Congressman Lewis were going to deliver remarks was so filled that we couldn't get in. So a staffer, a White House staffer, came over and she said, would you like to get in there? I said, yeah, it would be great if you could help us. So, so we— she helped us get through the crowd and, and took us right behind this little area that was kind of stanchioned off. And this Secret Service agent came over and And he said, jokingly, he said, "All right, you've got that corner, I'll take this corner." He said, "Don't let anybody in." And so we laughed and we said, "Okay." So while we were waiting for the president and others to come and speak, the King family, so Martin Luther King's family, sat right next to us, which was just incredible. We had a very nice conversation and it was just amazing. And then I turned and I looked behind us because right behind us there was a— they had cleared a path for the president to come through right before they sweep and he enters. And standing right behind me was Oprah Winfrey. So I turn around and I was a little shocked, so I'm sure my eyes opened wide, and Oprah looks at me and she says, "Well, hello there." And I said, "Well, hello there." And we couldn't speak because we had to be quiet, waiting for the president to enter. So afterwards, we saw each other again and said hello. And then the next day, of course, was all of the speeches, so while I was waiting in this little area off of this bottom of the Lincoln Memorial, the steps to go up. They had a little holding area, like it's called the green room, if you can imagine, but it was really like a little tent. So I'm in there by myself waiting, and all of a sudden the drapes open and in walks Oprah, and she's all by herself, and she says, oh my gosh, it's you again. I said, well, it's you again. And So we started talking about just all kinds of things for probably 10 minutes, and then I had to go up and deliver my speech. And I didn't see her again until afterwards, until all the events had ended, and we were all going down this very long ramped sidewalk from the steps of the Lincoln Memorial down to a parking area. And so we're making our way down this ramp, and all of a sudden this this group of people comes rushing by us, and, and all of a sudden they stop about 20 feet away and they turn, and the— this group of people open up— opens up, and in the center was Oprah. And she turns and she says, "I've been looking for you." And, um, so we chatted for another couple of minutes, you know, gave each other hugs, and, uh, and, and then, you know, she was off. But I just thought that was just so funny that in less than a day, I'm running into Oprah all of these times, and each time we hugged like we were long-lost friends, all during a very emotional and very solemn but serious ceremony and event. But that was quite a day I'll never forget. I will never forget for so many reasons. Trayvon Martin's father came to me after my speech and he said, "I want to thank you. I want to thank you for your words." And I hugged him and I said, "You've made quite a sacrifice by losing your son, and I want to thank you for being strong and for helping to change the minds of so many people in the world." And so I thanked him. Just a very emotional, very spiritual, very inspirational day in so many ways, so many ways.

Wow, that's a great story. That is really a great story, and it was a very inspirational time, but that is also a little funny story with Oprah. That is really quite the story. Yeah, yeah. So, so two things. First of all, if you're listening to the show and you're thinking, oh, I wish that I could tell my aunt or uncle or friend about this travel, you can. And how you can do that is by going to Spotify or Apple or benderconsult.com or voiceamerica.com. But if you go to Spotify for example, and you put in Disability Matters with Joyce Bender on voiceamerica.com, you can subscribe to my radio show, which means you will be able to hear this show and then send it to someone else because everyone, everyone needs to hear about this. This is so great for everyone. And Fred, I'm sure you'll put this on your website Uh, so that, you know, if you want to send someone directly to the site. And Fred, what is your website?

So it's www.maztravels.com. So that's M like Mark, A-A-H-S-T-R-A-V-E-L-S dot com. Okay, one more time. Sure, it's www.mahstravels.com.

Okay, and you also know you can always get in touch with me, Joyce Bender, at benderconsult.com. And Fred, it was a pleasure having you on the show. And Fred, we always have a quote. Before we end the show, and this one is for you because of the story you just told. And that is, "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter," said Martin Luther King Jr. Just for you, Fred.

Thank you.

This is true. Thank you, Joyce. You're welcome. This is Joyce Bender, @DisabilityMatters on VoiceAmerica.com. Hey, see you next week. That's what we're doing. We're starting the ADA celebration for the month of July with Maria Town, CEO of AAPD, and Kelly Buckland from Nickel. Can't wait. This is our month, everyone. Don't Don't miss it. Talk to you then.

Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific time and 2 PM Eastern time for another installment of Disability Matters right here on the Voice America variety channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.