Highmark Health's Commitment to the 30/30 Initiative

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender.

All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

And welcome to the show, everyone in the United States and around the world. Thank you to all those countries from China to Saudi Arabia to Brazil You know, I always say we have a larger listening audience in China and the UK. However, every single person that listens to the show, thank you, you're making a difference. And that is why I'm giving a special shout out to my friends that work for the State Department at embassies at countries I've been to. So, Hello, Richard Roberts in Japan. Thank you for being such a wonderful advocate for people with disabilities. Gangyang Cho in Seoul, South Korea. Oh my goodness, he's had me there twice in the country. He is really a big advocate. And actually Richard was there before he went to Japan. And Indonesia and in, Tunisia, my new friend Cheryl Harris, but I've also been to Kazakhstan and Panama. But right now I'm excited to tell you I'm doing a special presentation coming up for the country of Libya. Is that not amazing? I just finished with Tunisia and the embassy for Libya is located in Tunisia, and the ambassador heard me speak and asked me to speak to people in Libya. So it truly is a great honor. Hey, Yoshiko Dart, special hi to you. And you know what, although Wells Fargo and, uh, People's and the Employment Option have been sponsors of this show. Highmark has been the lead sponsor for 4 years. I mean, this country— this company is so awesome. All the executive management, you all know I talk about Highmark, and that is why, guess what, today we have the executive vice president and Chief Human Resource Officer for Highmark Health, Larry Kleinman. And before I introduce, before I start talking to Larry, I want you to know this man is the real deal. I mean, a lot of people talk about, we wanna help you, and they do, but they don't get involved. You know what I mean? They don't get their hands dirty. Now here's someone at this extremely high level And he helped me ongoing with the Highmark 30/30 to get people with disabilities hired and is still helping me. Do you know he participates often in a call we have every month with the human resources department at AHN and Highmark? I mean, can you believe that? This is why I say, hi, Mark. Sets the high mark for other companies to follow. And you can probably tell I love this man. Larry, welcome to the show.

Thank you, Joyce Bender. Glad to be here.

So how about if we start— since we do have listeners around the world, how about if we start by you telling our listeners about your role at Highmark Health?

Okay.

Thank you, Joyce. As you described, you described the title, which describes part of my role. I essentially have, I'll call it two different things in any given day. Whatever my boss tells me you need to be working on, I can shift. But essentially, I run human resources for all of Highmark, which includes the Allegheny Health Network. Highmark Health is a $19 billion company with about 8 different companies within the portfolio of businesses. We have a hospital system, a Blue Cross business, a stop-loss business, dental business, technology company, and a few others. So, about 40,000 employees. And so running human resources is pretty straightforward other than the complexities that come with a company of that size. But I also run something called Think Up, which is our internal consulting group where we work with all of our various businesses and work with them to improve their operations, their performance. So things like changing processes, process redesign, operating models. We do a lot of digital tools at the same time, so a lot of artificial intelligence chatbots, machine learning, robotic processing, those kinds of things. So, we're in the process, we've been doing this for about 3 or 4 years. It's had a fairly significant economic impact to the company, hundreds of millions of dollars. And so, I spend about half my time doing my HR role and I spend about half my time running ThinkUp. We are in the process of finishing up in the next, I'd say, month or 2 at the most, how we would actually commercialize this and take it out as another business for us to sell. So, um, a lot of things going on at Highmark, but those are the two things that I spend most of my time on, Joyce.

You know, I was just thinking when you were talking about that ThinkUp, I can think of so many companies that, you know, that, that would be perfect for. So I'm not surprised that it will become, you know, a commercial product. That is wonderful, Larry. That is really great. I'm, you know, excited about that. You know, when you first started, and then I'm going to tell you a little story here. When you first started, first, how large has Highmark Health grown since you started there?

Well, we're about the same size from a revenue standpoint and employees because we're— we do buy and sell different businesses. So at one point we were about $19 billion and we sold our vision company about a year and a half ago. So that took us down to $18 billion. You know, so there's always some movement in terms of the size of the company. But overall, the company is growing very nicely, both revenue as well as profitability. We are hopefully any day now closing a deal that's in the public domain that should take us to about $21 billion. And, you know, so we have more growth plans underway and in store. So, you know, the company keeps growing and the company keeps adapting.

And I know because you keep adding hospitals. So, you know, I know that the company is growing. It's amazing. So my story is that way back in 1980, Blue— it was not Highmark, of course. It was Blue Cross of Western Pennsylvania, and it used to be— let me think, what was that— Penn Avenue? I'm not sure. Fort Duquesne. It was a building there, and oh my goodness, it was this little small building. Small. And, you know, nowhere near as gigantic and progressive as you have become since then. Every time I think about that, I'll think, from there to Fifth Avenue Place. I mean, it's just amazing how much, you know, the company has grown over all of these years. And I know there's a big change that has impacted the community at large, and that is telemedicine. That has really taken off. Could you talk about that for a minute?

Yeah, it's a good question, Joyce Bender. Telemedicine has been around actually quite a while, but it was really— had a slow adoption rate. I think a lot of people didn't trust the technology. They want to see their doctor face-to-face when they have a problem or they're sick. What we found through COVID for the last 10, 11 months is telehealth was up about 400% through the middle of summer to the latter part of the fall. It's now tapered back off as the hospitals have opened up for surgeries and things like that, but I do think we're going to see telehealth continue to operate at a much more elevated level than it's operated historically.

Well, yes, and it's so convenient. I mean, you know, I, I think that this is the most awesome thing, and I agree with you. I think you will see more and more people remain doing that or, you know, start doing this. So that is amazing how much it grew. I remember Cindy Hunderfeen telling me the numbers, and I thought, wow, what? And it's amazing, isn't it, Larry, how this pandemic has so changed work process, you know, the work face of the future?

Yeah, it really has, Joyce Bender. We're learning every day different things that we want to incorporate into the company going forward. We told employees— so let me start over in that we sort of have to run two different plays at the same time. So obviously in our hospitals, people cannot work at home and remotely. In the rest of our businesses, we sent everyone home in a week. Literally about 3 or 4 days, and they've been home since. And we learned how to operate. We learned how to ensure productivity standards stayed in place. You know, so there's a whole host of things, and a lot of technologies really came along, as you and I were talking earlier, things like Microsoft Teams, Zoom, those kinds of technologies have really helped continue to keep the company together. We told employees back in the late fall that we would not be bringing anyone back in the buildings until after July 4th, just so people could plan and have a, you know, a time horizon that worked for them, people, particularly parents with kids and schools and those kinds of things. And we are most likely end up with a hybrid model whenever we do come back. Where we will probably have about 20— and these numbers aren't accurate, but they're just directional. We will probably have about 20% of employees who never come back in the building. They will always be remote workers. We have about 20% that will be back in the buildings full-time, and then the remaining 60% will be back. It could be once a week, once a month, once a quarter, depending upon the type of meetings that they're required to attend. So, I sit on a Workforce of the Future committee with a number of Fortune 500 companies like Hewlett-Packard, General Electric, IBM, etc., with my peers, and they're all contemplating pretty much the same model, a hybrid model. Obviously, where they have manufacturing, those employees have to be there, but for the more typical corporate-type roles, I think we're going to see a lot more remote working well into the future. And, you know, it's funny, we do employee engagement surveys. We do pulse surveys throughout the year, and we do one major survey in the fall. Our scores went up dramatically this past year, and we attribute that to the flexibility that people had and how we handled, you know, their personal needs throughout the COVID crisis. So, I think we've been fortunate that we've been able to capitalize on figuring out how do we manage and lead in a very different world. And so, we're trying to capture those learnings and build them into the culture of the future.

Yeah, it is. I mean, it's changed with our company. Of course, we have a lot of people that work, you know, as consultants or, you know, we have directly placed them, you know, such as at Highmark. And then, okay, they still are working from home, you know, in IT they're still working from home. But even in human resources and all the other areas, just as you said, people are working from home. And I know that, I think it was Deloitte sent people a small stipend of money to buy office stuff. Meaning they're going to be working from home. And, you know, it's just, it just has changed everything. For example, if a lot of you have not been in Fifth Avenue Place, which is the most beautiful building headquartered in downtown Pittsburgh, is just beautiful. And I remember, Larry, when the big thing was all those cubicles. On certain floors.

Yep.

Yep. Boy, has that changed at every company I work with. Every company. But thing about Highmark, you are really flexible and you have really, really worked well with all of your employees. So I'm not surprised about what you just talked about. But now for my favorite topic here, it is The Highmark 30/30. I just want to say again, to all of you listening to this show, if you ever need in the future a great speaker at a conference or at one of these ILG events, or, you know, I don't care what it would be, or if you are in the media, this is your person when it comes to the employment of people with disabilities. I want to remind everyone, 70% of people with disabilities as of several months ago were out of the workforce. Guess what? It's going up to 80%. So sadly, people with disabilities are having an even more difficult time. And Highmark, this great man, Larry Kleinman, and the CEO who is champion, David Holmberg, are an example for CEOs and EVPs across America. And we are working right now, by the way, on some national media, because hopefully if other companies hear this, they will remember people with disabilities have great value. So, Larry, how about if you tell everyone about the Highmark 30/30?

Happy to, Joyce. Of course, it wouldn't have happened without you and your leadership and your team. Excuse me. But, you know, it was the 30th anniversary for when the law changed. Joyce Bender came to us and said, do you think you could sign up and deliver 30 hires in 2020, disability hires. And now historically we'd done about half that. And we said, sure, we'll, we'll take that on and we're up for the challenge. Now that was probably late fall in '19. So no, no, no, no foresight that the year would be as, as crazy as it was in 2020 with COVID We got off to a good start. As Joyce Bender mentioned, we have weekly and monthly calls where we're going through name by name, candidate by candidate, how do we best place people, retain people, etc. And then COVID hit. And we quickly, by the end of March into April, were forecasting, like many, many companies, some fairly dire financial projections. And so we stopped hiring. We did a hiring freeze. Took some cost actions, you know, an array of things just like almost every company did. And so, David and I talked to Joyce probably, I'll call it June, I don't remember the exact date. And we said, Joyce, we're still really committed to doing this. It may take us more than 12 months though, because we've frozen all hiring and, you know, it's just a difficult environment right now. We did about 70% of the hires we typically do every year. And so, but we said, we're committed, we're going to try. And then we even doubled down the effort and worked on it harder, harder, and harder. And just persistence, the discipline of grinding through it, and we were able to achieve the goal of 30 hires in 2020. So, it was, we felt very proud to be a part of that. And again, it was some other people in Highmark and their teams. But also, it wouldn't have happened without Joyce and her team.

Well, to me, this story is amazing because first we have companies that don't hire people with disabilities at all. They don't realize their value. But to commit to that and come through during the pandemic, and let me tell you, folks, these weren't like all Don't be thinking these were like— and don't forget, don't get me wrong. We do at some companies have some people that work in customer service or other roles. These were from the junior level careers-to-be through all the way up to a vice president that is in HR, diversity inclusion at AHN. Many of the people were intermediate level in IT. And many of the people— and I talked about this to Chai Feldblum, who was EEOC Commissioner and will now be a Biden appointee in some role— was always about what about people with targeted disabilities. In other words, what about people with significant disabilities? First person at AHN had quadriplegia. Next person was blind. So, you know, this is where the rubber meets the road. I always say, tell people, don't tell me how wonderful I am, hire someone, hire someone. That's, that's what makes the difference. And they did. And I can never thank you enough, Larry. And you are to me a champion superstar in this area. So I have to ask you, why? Why are you like this? I mean, you know, there are other executives, but I got to be honest with you. I've talked to Ted Kennedy, and I've talked to Tony, and I've talked to Doro Bush, but I've also talked to all these disability rights leaders and people like Senator Casey. They're all so impressed with what you've done, but one of the reasons is, like, you're, like, alone that you were able to do this. So, I have to ask you, personally, I know how much you did helping me, calling me, even encouraging me, saying, "Don't worry, we'll do it, we'll get there." So, why are you like this?

Well, Joyce Bender, my wife would probably give you a different answer than I would, but I'm going to stick with my answer. I think the most important thing is it's just the right thing to do. We deal with a lot of tough issues. We deal with a lot of wide-ranging type of things. But when you get— when you cut through all the noise every day, you know, it's just simply doing the right thing. Jobs are so essential for a human being's life, and it, it sort of defines how they think about themselves. It defines the level of confidence that they have, how they go through life every day. And so it's really important that we do these kinds of things for a lot of people, not just people with disabilities, but certainly people with disabilities. And so for us This is, this is the right thing to do. You know, we have roughly 2,000 hiring managers who all make decisions every day about who they want to hire and how they want to deal with things. And so our job is to constantly be working with those managers to make sure that, you know, they're not being biased. They are open to new ways of doing things, and they're open to people who may have a disability but maybe have the skills and abilities to do that job better than anybody else. So for us, Joyce, and for myself, I think it's just simply the right thing to do.

Gee, I wish everyone else that, you know, that would be the answer, but you did it. You are a person of integrity and you did it. You accomplished this unbelievably great goal during a time— and you're right, People with disabilities, having a job gives you dignity, gives you respect. You know, what is the first question you're asked? First question, what's your name? Number 2, what do you do? And you know, it's not a fun day when your answer is, well, I'm not employed. Work gives you that dignity and respect. And the other thing is, and Highmark knows this and they are the same way, When it comes to hiring people with disabilities, we're all about no pity. And I hope that we can get someone like Larry and David on national media so somehow, as Ted Kennedy said, we don't go backwards, but that we go forward. And I know it's time for our news break. That we have on every half hour on the show. Um, and Perry Jude Radesik is the CEO of Disability Rights Pennsylvania and is very well known across the country, including in D.C. at the Capitol, across the board. And Perry, I think you will agree with me, before you give us that news update update that seeing a company take a stand to employ people with disabilities is remarkable.

Joyce, thanks again for having us, and thanks for the opportunity to talk about IMARC. They've just done a terrific job of leading in Pennsylvania and for healthcare providers across the country, and it's just terrific, just absolutely terrific.

Yes, well, and you know how hard it is for people with disabilities to get employment, and you also know that they have gone through great strife, obstacles, and problems through this pandemic.

Oh, absolutely, and of course in our network and in Pennsylvania, we get calls frequently from people still experiencing barriers to employment that we have to try to navigate And so the fact that Highmark is removing those barriers and helping our community become fully employed is really— the leadership is incredible, and we appreciate that.

And Perry, I know you're part of a federal national organization. I know that you're well known nationally, and I want you to tell— every company and everyone you know what Highmark has done, because as you know, you've heard me say this before, the only way you'll change the workface of America when it comes to people with disabilities is if you hire them. If you're not hired—

It would certainly be a pleasure, yes, to do that.

Oh, thank you. Thank you, Perry. Well, Perry, what news do you have for us today?

Well, Joyce, this is really important that we push this information out regarding Amtrak and that they've entered into a settlement agreement with the U.S. Department of Justice that resolves so many claims from an Americans with Disabilities Act lawsuit that the Justice filed against Amtrak. So this is really important information for listeners across the country. So the Department of Justice brought this lawsuit because it had been so many years since Amtrak had started to move forward regarding Title II of the Americans with Disabilities Act. So Justice had so many complaints about accessibility at so many train stations. So, you know, Amtrak is denying the allegations, but they entered into the settlement agreement, and said that they are committed, always have been, and continue to be committed to complying with the ADA. So what's in the settlement agreement? Well, first and foremost, the settlement agreement sets aside $2.25 million to compensate people who are eligible who have been harmed because of accessibility barriers at certain train stations. There are 68 train stations across the country that people need to go to our website at disabilityrightsPA.org, check out the Advocacy Matters segment for today, and see if you've ever experienced barriers, accessibility barriers at these train stations. Now, here in Pennsylvania, there are 5 stations that are part of this agreement.. And if you've ever traveled across the state over to Philadelphia, you would have heard of these stations— Coatesville, Downingtown, Johnstown, Lewistown, and Parkesburg. Now, again, the— we have a link to the Amtrak disability settlement on our Advocacy Matters segment, so you can learn more about how to be eligible for the settlement funds and how to file that claim. So last week, Amtrak started accepting claims for monetary compensation. Now, here's an important thing. You have to file your claim by May 29th of this year. We only have 120 days, and it ends May 29th. Now, if you visited any of these 68 stations, Amtrak is looking at the period between July 27th, 2013, December 2nd, 2020. So those— that's the time period that they are looking at to compensate individuals who file claims and are eligible for that settlement. We have so much information. Advocacy matters. Go to our website at disabilityrightsPA.org and check out this information. We know Amtrak had 20 years to comply with the ADA. 30 years later, our community and Amtrak are still working to ensure accessible rail travel across the country and in our communities. And if you need more help, call us at Disability Rights Pennsylvania, if you live in our state, and we'll be happy to walk you through the settlement agreement.

Wow, took a long time there. Took a long time. And you know what? Perry, people don't understand that unless they have a disability and they go through it. You know, you know what I mean? So thank you, thank you for that information, and thank you for telling our listeners about that. And Perry, you have a great day.

You too.

Thank you, Joyce Bender.

We're still working on it. I mean, don't get me wrong, there have been many great things that have happened— curb cuts, Braille on the elevator. Now you can get on the Greyhound bus. Access, as I said, housing. Now you cannot ask anyone now, "What is your disability?" I mean, so many things, captioning, so many great things that have allowed people with disabilities to now be able to go to colleges and able to get in high schools they couldn't even get into before. So, so many great things, but employment is still the thing that we have not fully realized the dream. And we are making progress. It's really slow, but compared to when I started, you know, we are making progress. But it's companies like Highmark that are leaders in the nation that are going to make the difference. And as you know, Larry, I met Bill Lowry when he was the CEO of Blue Cross of Western Pennsylvania, and then Blue Cross moved into, uh, Fifth Avenue Place. And then Larry, uh, and John Braus together worked to merge and become Highmark. And it wasn't long after that, 26 years ago, that I went to Bill and told him my dream and asked him if he would agree to have 6 of my employees as contractors, just so I could get revenue coming in to pay their benefits, you know, sal— but most importantly, to grow. Here we are, 6 people, and here I am doing presentations for Tunisia and Libya, all because of one man, one decision, one company. But what's more remarkable, and then the CEO was John Brousse, and then it was Ken Maloney, and then it was Bill Winkenwerder, and now here we are with David Holmberg, who is taking it to even higher level But that's pretty remarkable when you think about that, that every CEO partnered with me and kept this going. I even remember when Bill Lowry and Keith Cabmire had a luncheon at Sculios when Sculios was there. And I remember thinking, wow, talk about a powerful luncheon. They invited John Brouse and Jim Klingensmith who would be the upcoming CEO and COO to tell them to keep it going. But, you know, that's an example of what I mean that's remarkable. But my question to you, Larry, is what do you think it is about Heimark that, you know, that you have this culture that would be unbelievable leadership 26 years? What, what do you think it is?

You know, it is a good question, Joyce. I am not sure that I can articulate easily what the, what the answer to your question is. There is, I will call it a goodness in our culture that has perpetuated for many, many years as you have described that, you know, we do a lot of things in the communities where we operate across multiple states. And that's just a part of the DNA. It's part of the fabric of who the company has always been. And obviously, things change when you get CEOs that come in and have different ideas and things. But that DNA fabric of the culture to help other people has always been core to us. And I don't see that changing. We have core behaviors that we articulate, we talk about, we measure. And they're important to us. But what I would say is we just have, we've been blessed with a lot of leaders throughout a long period of time who always like doing the right thing and like doing things in our communities to help, to help people, whether they're with disabilities or in other types of situations. So, we've been pretty blessed from that standpoint, Joyce.

Yes. Yes, you have. And that is true about the goodness in that company with the leadership. Because you know, there are companies that when, for example, a CEO leaves, that some of those programs, all of a sudden it isn't important. It has never changed. And it has never been, you know, like, "Oh no, now they don't care that much." It has never, ever been that way. And that is why I love the company so much. You know, it's just unbelievable. So, Larry, you yourself, what caused you to pursue a career in human resources? You know, like, why did you want to do that? I mean, thank God you did, but what caused you to want to do that?

Well, I I'd be less than honest if I said that was my goal. You know, when I went to college, I studied business. I started in sales and I ran my own business way back in the day, back in Pittsburgh, and then sold it after 3 or 4 years. And after I sold my business, I wasn't sure what I was going to do next. And I talked to a— someone sent me to a career counselor who gave me a battery of assessments and tests. And she said, you have a lot of attributes that consultants have. Here's 5 names of consultants, go call them and see what happens. And literally within 30 days, I was a management consultant. And what I did for the next 8 years was I worked with a lot of large global companies about how do you drive change. This was back in the day when you had companies like Bain and McKinsey who would come in, do a competitive analysis, give you a big binder to the CEO and say, "Here's what you need to do to win the marketplace." But they didn't have any execution ability. And so we were the type of firm that came in and worked with whether it was General Electric or Ford, Unilever for a year, sometimes 18 months to help turn that binder into organizational reality so that they could reposition themselves to be more competitive. And two things that I learned over that period of time was when I had my own business, I was convinced— the reason I sold it was I was convinced that it was a cash business, it was a retail business, that if I wasn't there, that I couldn't trust someone else to run it. And, you know, because it was a cash business, I wasn't comfortable with how to grow. And so my lesson from that was It's all about people. My lesson from my years in consulting was companies that win in the marketplace and perform at high levels, it's sometimes it's a whiz-bang product. Sometimes they have a little more capital, but most often it comes down to leadership and the ability to get people harnessed in a direction cohesively together. To really make something magical happen. And so, those are the two reasons why I think I ended up in HR. That was never my plan. At the end of my 8th year in consulting, my wife and I, we had just had our 3rd child. And I'll never forget this. She sort of looked at me and she said— by the way, when you're doing management consulting work, I was on the road all week, every week for 8 years, so only home on the weekends. And she looked at me and she said, "I think it's time for us to be normal now." And I said, "What does that mean?" She said, "You have to get a job where you're home every day." So, my last consulting project was a company called Becton Dickinson. Luckily, they were happy with the work we had done and they asked me to take a job with them. And I, long story short, agreed to do that. And it was a very odd job. So, half my job was working around the world with the heads of manufacturing and redesigning the supply chain globally. Working with the head of sales and marketing globally to redesign that process. Oh, and then 50% of my job was doing HR things for the corporate groups. And my boss at the time, when he first told me that, I said, "Geez, that's not really what we talked about. That's not what I signed up for." And he said, "Well, this will be great for you. A lot of the things you know how to do, our HR people aspire to, so this will be really good for your career." So moving from Pittsburgh to Northern New Jersey where the cost of housing is about 3 times as high, and I had already accepted the job, I said, okay, well, I guess we'll try this. And from that point on, what I realized was you could use an HR role to really drive substantive change in a company if you know how to do that. And so I went on to be an HR manager and then a director, and then I got my first head of HR job with Nabisco, with Planters peanuts, and then I've had a series of chief human resources officer roles since that. And so that may be a long winding answer to your question, Joyce, but I can't tell you that it was something I decided in college. It was based on life lessons that really struck me as I thought about how do you get a company to perform at its optimal peak level. It always comes down to getting people to be cohesive, aligned, and playing well nicely together. If you don't have those things, companies don't perform at the highest levels. And so that usually comes down, you know, it's not usually the CFO, it's not usually the business unit leader. In many cases it could be, but if you're a large enterprise, it comes down to a lot of, a lot of times the CEO and the CHRO. And so, I just always have been fascinated by that kind of work, and fortunately, it seems to have worked out fairly well so far.

Wow, what a story. You know, our theme every year for 12 years, we've had a theme. Like, our very first theme was character, and then every month, I send a quote to our entire employees and past employees. About whatever the theme is. Well, this year it's resilience, and you certainly showed resilience with all of those moving from one thing to the next and accepting that challenge and opportunity. And I really believe another key to success in the workplace is flexibility because we're in Especially now, look how it is. I mean, it's a changing, everyday changing environment, and you obviously were very flexible. I mean, and you know what else? You worked hard everywhere you were, and you made the most of it. You didn't say, oh, this isn't what I was planning on doing. Um, and then how— what made you want to work at Heimark?

Well, for me it was actually pretty simple. Um, I, when I was approached about Highmark, I knew a little bit about the company, but certainly not a lot. Um, what was important to me at that point in time and that point in my career was a couple of things. I knew that with, uh, Obamacare and the Affordable Care Act, that, uh, healthcare was changing and changing pretty rapidly. But I also knew that Highmark placed some big bets and wasn't doing that well. So for me, the first thing was, you know, do they have the wherewithal financially to withstand a downturn? And clearly they did. Much more importantly was the CEO. In my job, the relationship with the CEO is essential. If you don't have a great relationship with that CEO, you're not going to be successful. And so when I met David Holmberg, you know, I was convinced in the few times we met early on that he was going to be— I mean, he was a first-time CEO, and I was convinced that he had all the attributes of a great CEO. I was more than pleased 6 months into the job that not only was that accurate, but he has grown immensely as our CEO and a leader across the whole country. As he's now the board chair for all the Blue Cross Association companies across the country. So number one, did they have the financial wherewithal? Number two, was the relationship— was the CEO the right person and you have the right relationship? Number three, because I have a fair amount of diversity in my career and background in terms of types of businesses between consumer products companies, technology companies, etc. That the portfolio of Highmark was a good fit. And, you know, I'd worked in hospital systems, but I'd also worked in retail where we had the Vision Company as an example. You know, so it was just a really good fit for my background. And then the fourth reason, which was also interesting to me, was it was a functional turnaround. The HR department was not seen as being very sound. It was not seen as performing at a high level. And so I knew that there was opportunities to improve it and it wouldn't be that difficult. So those were the primary reasons, Joyce, that for me it was, it was an easy decision, actually.

Well, we're glad you made that decision, especially me. Oh no, especially people with disabilities. We're glad you made that decision. And speaking of that, Joyce Bender, there are a lot of college students and younger people that listen to this show. Maybe a little advice from you, especially with your position, your executive leadership. What advice do you have for young people with disabilities seeking employment, possibly running into obstacles right now?

Yeah, it's a good question. I think, you know, my advice won't be different for people with disabilities. I realize it's a much steeper slope and it's harder, but I think the same characteristics of success are applicable. You know, it's things like a lot of self-discipline, persistence, you know, looking at problems as opportunities, learn from trouble, learn from difficulties. You know, people who can see— people who can look at problems and setbacks and see that as a learning opportunity seem to do really well. You know, someone once told me early on in your career, always do more than you're paid for. Soon as you always do more than you're paid for, then soon you'll be paid more than what you should be getting paid for what you do. And so, you know, don't look down on any kind of jobs starting at the beginning. Is always good. But I think it's the same kind of attributes. Get a mentor, practice, have goals, have integrity, you know, but the same things seem to apply no matter what happens. You know, everyone has tough times. Typically, the source is a lack of direction. People I see that are most successful with disabilities with or without, they have goals, they have a lot of discipline, they're persistent, they see opportunities, and they pursue. And so, you know, to me, those kinds of things apply no matter what. So let me— I'll stop there, Joyce. I don't know if that helps.

Oh yeah, yes, that really helps. And you know what I love that you said is the part about always do more than you're paid for. Because when you have that mentality, you show initiative, but you also show gratitude and work ethics. And to me, that makes such a difference. I do have one question for you, Larry. What do you think about the importance of volunteering, volunteerism, you know, in the community, whether it's the Epilepsy Association, United Way, No matter what it is, for example, I know Highmark, your presence is, your footprint is seen across the region and now in different states of your commitment to the community. What do you think about the importance of that to young people?

Well, it is important and it is, I mean, there are some obvious things to it. It is important because, you know, if you are a part of the community, you are trying to help others and help people. People have different situations that they encounter, some deservedly, some not. And, you know, it is just, again, it comes back to like what we talked about earlier. It is just sort of the right thing to do. We do a lot in the community. But there's also a gratification that comes with giving back. My wife is board chair for Boys and Girls Club, and she does an amazing amount of things in the community. And we have this discussion all the time because she does more than I do, actually, but it's a very— it's a It's an important value system that she has that we both possess that, you know, you get a certain— you get more back when you give. And it's just, it's a nice way to feel good about what you're doing and help others.

Yes, and in addition to that, in Pittsburgh, people such as yourself, well, your wife now, that's a perfect example, is so involved and events, you know, in the community. And when you volunteer, you meet those people, you know, a great way to build a network.

Mm-hmm. It is.

Yeah, I always tell people, if you want to meet a CEO or executive, go to a United Way event or different events, uh, you know, in Pittsburgh. You will always see leaders at those events. And right before the radio show, I thought of something I must ask you, Larry. Do you still have those cards?

I do, I do, Joyce. What Joyce is referring to is—

you don't know how much that impressed me.

Go ahead. Uh, well, for those who were listening, you know, uh, a long time ago, it could be It's well over 30 years ago now, before laptops and all the technology we have today. I was trying to really understand, you know, how do you become successful? Whatever that definition— it's different for different people, and that's okay. But I was trying to study it, so I took about, I don't know, 3, 6 months, and I read and studied all kinds of books, all kinds of different types of people. And what I would do is I would take these large, I don't know, maybe 6, uh, 8-inch type index cards, and I would write my lessons learned from all these things that I was studying. And they're so old, it's an old metal binder clip that holds them together, and I still have them today. They're in my briefcase. I used to take them— I don't do it as much anymore, but the first maybe 10 years I had them, I would take out these 25, 30 index cards and I would read them every day. And that was a way for me to get grounded into what's important. What are my values? How do I want to go about living my life? And so, it was things about persistence, self-discipline, savings, motivation, mentorship, education, training, those kinds of things. But, there's little sprinkles of ingredients, salt, you know, they're all throughout these cards and I still carry them today.

Yeah, that's amazing. I thought about that right before the show because when you told me that story about how you actually studied this, I thought, wow, I mean, talk about dedication. And once again, young people listening to the show, you know, here's what doesn't happen. One day, Larry wakes up and there he is, he's successful. It's years of work, but it's also years of reading, studying, and looking at others. You know, when you look at other people that is successful, you learn from them. That's why I always say every book you read, even if you don't like the whole book, you can learn something from a piece of that book. So, uh, Larry, what message do you have for our listeners today?

Joyce Bender, CEO, Joyce Bender, LLC. Well, Joyce, I like the message you had for the— you mentioned earlier for the year. It's one we've been talking about at our company. It's resilience. You know, I just think as we, as a country and a world, still are struggling to get vaccine into people's arms and get rid of this pandemic, it's going to require everyone to be more resilient than they've ever been. 2020 was a year of just an array of all kinds of human behavioral things, both positive and negative. And people were forced to do things that they naturally and normally would not want to do. And so, I think the theme of resiliency is probably the most important theme for 2021 because it's, from everything I can tell, It's going to be a while till we get this pandemic really under control. So, I like that theme, Joyce.

Thank you. Well, that means a lot coming from you. Well, thank you so much, Larry. You are a champion. And thank you so much for— I know how busy you are— taking time today, but I'm sure people throughout the world learned something from this show. Thank you so much.

Thank you, Joyce Bender.

So we end every show with a quote, and I thought this was applicable to what Highmark has done, and that is: Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We You are the ones we have been waiting for, said President Barack Obama. This is Joyce Bender, America's Voice, where disability matters, at VoiceAmerica.com. Talk to you next week.

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