HMHS' Commitment to Employ People with Disabilities

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Hey everyone, welcome to the show. Hope everyone is being healthy, safe, taking care of yourself and your family. I want to send a special shout out A special shout out to my friend Yoshiko Dart. Hey, Yoshiko, think about you all the time. This year's the 30th anniversary of the signing of Americans with Disabilities Act, and she has lived it because her husband, the late, great Justin Dart, fought for this for years and years. So Yoshiko, always thinking about you. And then Hey, to my special friends from the State Department in Japan and South Korea and Tunisia, and soon we're going to bring aboard Kazakhstan. Hey, I love you all. Think about you all the time. Thank you for fighting the fight with me. Well, you know what? We have listeners all around the world. We have listeners in over 17 countries. So I have to start with the largest listener, which is China. And I really appreciate how you are spreading the news throughout the country. And you know what I always say, I don't care if there's one listener in a country, one listener can make a difference. And so hey to you, one person in Fiji, thank you for listening to the show. Well, I also have to thank our sponsors, People's Natural Gas, uh, the Employment Options, Wells Fargo, and none other than our lead sponsor for the past 4 years, Highmark. I always say Highmark sets the high mark for other companies to follow because there is no one like this company where it comes from the top down and has remained through this pandemic. And one of the reasons for that is our guest today, who I love, who's a wonderful person. I'm gonna tell you what I like about him so much. It's not about politics. It's about make it happen, get the job done. And that is how he is. He is the president of HMHS, an enterprise technology officer, and just a friend of all of us living with disabilities at Highmark Health. Mick Malek, welcome to the show. Mick, how about if you start by telling our listeners around the world about your background before you joined Highmark Health?

Hi, Mark. Sure. I have been in information technology for over 30 years. I started as a nerd before it was so fashionable, so I got that going for me. And I have been in healthcare for the last 25 years, so healthcare IT for quite a while. My family and I started off in Detroit, Michigan, moved to Atlanta, and now we're here in Pittsburgh. So it's been a great journey up until this wonderful phone call with you, Miss Joyce.

Oh, well, thank goodness we have you here. I never knew you were in Motown State. Didn't know you were there. My favorite music, Motown. Hey, Mick, now here you are, and we are so fortunate to have you. Just so you all know, from when I met him, it has been like a no-nonsense— there's the term— no-nonsense. He is a no-nonsense Make it happen. I mean, I'm not kidding you now. I got to tell you this story about this young man with quadriplegia and very significant disabilities that didn't have a job, but he had a good IT background, but he still didn't have a job with this pandemic. One phone call and resume to Mick, and now he's working in a really great job at Highmark. And when I called and told— I'll never forget I'll never forget this. When I called Mick and told him this, you know what he said? You made my day. Now remember, he's a president, executive level, but I'm telling you, he cares about people at all levels. And you went to this company I love so much. I love Highmark so much. People think I work for Highmark. But Mick, what caused you to join Highmark? How did that happen?

Well, I wanted to be able to make a difference. In my current role, there is a lot more opportunity to really make positive changes and the ability to drive better healthcare outcomes. Prior jobs were somewhat once removed from it, but here, Highmark is on the front line and information technology powers a lot of that. So it feels like there's a much more direct connection between all the technology, all the buzzwords, and the ability to make people healthier. So I don't want to get all corny, but it just seemed like it had a much more noble purpose to the job than just, you know, IT for the sake of IT.

Well, Highmark itself, what, what What chose you? What made you go there? What did you notice when you interviewed there about the company?

Very professional, very much a team here, very much they put their money where their mouth is, very focused on the community healthcare, making things positive. So it wasn't corporate rhetoric that sits in a brochure. These folks really mean it and they live it and they find ways to deliver it. So, you know, very legitimate leaders here that don't do it for self-aggrandizement. They're really all around the customers, the patients, and the providers in delivering good healthcare.

Yes, that I would agree with. So, just so our listeners understand, you know, when I say president of this group, would you mind explaining to everyone in the United States and of course around the world what exactly your role is and what it encompasses?

So we're a big outfit here. We have a lot of responsibilities in the health insurance field as well as the provider network and hospital field. So we have Allegheny Health Network, a very positive part of the healthcare community in Western Pennsylvania. And then of course we have Highmark, the entity, which is the insurance company and everything that it has. And then we provide the platform for other other payers, other Blues plans across the country for others. So, we have a very large footprint in terms of all the technology supporting the claims processing and enrollment and portals and commission systems and customer service. And then, on the hospital side, the big, big, you know, myriad of hospital devices and hospital systems. So, all that rolls into the ETO office, so it's a very large large entity here with a lot of responsibility, so that's the ETO role, and then we have a subsidiary that focuses just on Blue plans and the platforms for them, so I'm the president of that entity. So it's a combined role that just, once again, we process millions of transactions every single day. We're a 24/7 operation and we have a lot of responsibility to keep our systems running.

So approximately like how many people then report up to you?

Close to 5,000.

Well, that's a lot of people. You got a lot of people that report to you.

So then, yes, I'm very popular and some days I am not popular.

So, oh, how could that be? Yeah, that's what I say. How could that be? Uh, Mick, so does then the majority of IT report up through to you?

Yes, I would say 99.9% reports up through what we're doing here. So, you know, the analytics area, a very robust area, is outside of my domain, but other than that, if it's broken, it's my fault. So I live by that motto.

Yes, that doesn't surprise me. One bit. See, there are still so many great opportunities in information technology. My funniest story is when people used to tell me years ago, way back over 20 years ago, that COBOL was going away. Didn't go away. Still here. And I'll bet you still use it at Highmark.

Oh my. Well, not only us. Many big payers. Oh, I know.

I know, I don't have one large company I work with in IT that doesn't still use that in a maintenance mode. So gonna be here for a while. Didn't go away after the year 2000. We still have it here. Well, Mac, as I always say when I say hi, Mark, that's the hi, Mark. This company has supported me for over 25 years. Started with Bill Lowry, who I went to and said, "Bill, I have this dream. I want to start this company." And, you know, he was behind me. One day— and it took Highmark one day to say, "Yes, we'll bring on these people with disabilities." He left, and then it was John Braus. He left, and then it was Ken Mawane. He left, and then it was Bill Winkenwerder. And now it is, as I call him, the great David Holmberg. I mean, that's pretty remarkable, you must admit, that through all that time— because I started Bender 25 years ago— through all this time, every CEO, every one of them has stood behind me. Why do you think that is? When there are companies that aren't doing anything, why do you think Highmark has done that all these years?

Well, first off, it's a very important cause that you have. It's a very important agenda that you have taken on with your passion and commitment to it. So it would be tough for people that have an affinity for other human beings to turn a blind eye to you. So a lot of that is the noble purpose you have and then how you approach it. So kudos to you. I think here we once again put our money where our mouth is. We just don't give lip service to helping people. We try to make that happen. So you present an easy opportunity. So you show up with a resume, okay, with the credentials, with a process, with engagement. And so you don't show up with your hand out because these are not handout people you're representing, and you don't approach it that way. You approach it from a professional setting. The credentials are there. The skills are there, and we're able to quickly react to does this person fit in and how can we make this happen. So, you know, noble purpose aside, you have to have a process to facilitate it, and we have that here.

Right, because it's all about no pity. I always say when you hire people with disabilities, it's a business investment. You're going to get people that They're going to be there because it means so much to have a chance. You know, you can't realize that when you have a job, you don't know how lucky you are. You really don't until you're, you know, with the group that is oppressed. And sadly, right now, so many people don't have a job. But for people with disabilities, it has always been double the unemployment rate of people without disabilities. It has always been 7 times 70% of people with disabilities not counted in the workforce. So then when you get a chance, oh my goodness, it's like a treasure and you have such gratitude. And gratitude turns into productivity. So, you know, if you're out there thinking about it, you should be hiring people with disabilities if you aren't. Well, how about you? You hire people with disabilities, and I'm meaning full-stack developers, Java developers. I'm saying what it is, so like if you're listening, don't think it isn't technical, right-on-target skills that these people have. But once again, at other companies, not everyone, you know, is receptive, or we wouldn't have this high unemployment. So why did you jump on board right from the beginning?

I've been around a lot of different places and I think human beings sometimes take things for granted. I mean, some of us, the biggest worry we have is do we stop at Starbucks or someplace else for coffee on our way to work. Oh, I have to get gasoline today. Other folks don't have that. They just can't jump out of bed and jump into the car and go. So those folks, you know, we take ourselves for granted sometimes. Those folks have a little, larger obstacle. As you mentioned, the gentleman that's a quadriplegic. So I think that I don't at all ever pity anybody. That would be inappropriate. But I do think that some of these folks need an extra lift. They need an extra push that they didn't get certain things in their life. So I feel like it's my responsibility and my leaders are always with me that some of these folks just need that extra little boost, that extra little bit of attention and help to facilitate. Nobody wants to be drain on the program. My experience are these folks work hard, they want to contribute, they want to be part of the team, and they want to feel like they matter. They're not looking for a handout, they're looking to be productive, and it's our responsibility to give that little extra push so they have the ability to contribute.

Right, I agree. And here we go, we have a question from a listener for you, and that question is, in your opinion, do you feel this field is a good field for students with disabilities?

Yes. You know, with COVID we have proven unequivocally that people can be very productive not in the office. As far as I know, some people could be working in the bar for all I know. So I think we proved that we can hire people based on experience and intellect and passion and not necessarily seeing— to have to see you every day or touch you every day. So I think that these folks would be very productive in this environment. And can prove the fact that they can be productive without having to sit right outside your office.

Oh, and that is so true because now for the first time you can be in a rural area, you could be anywhere and now have an opportunity if you have the training in a certain area, you know, to work from home. And may I say IT is one of those fields, not the only field, I'm just saying IT is one of the fields And I must say, Mick, I know I did executive search in IT, but this is a group of people that more quickly got on board than like other areas. Why do you think that is? Why do you think IT people were so easy to jump on board?

Because we're always looking for good talent. You know, once again, I think there's a human being element that first off, the skill sets showed up. Valuable skill sets. We had good prior experience and we're always looking for people that can drive value. And not to mention, you know, it's once again the human being factor where, you know, Joyce Bender, once again, you represent this in a professional manner. This isn't a charity. It's not a handout. You're here to do business and the people you represent want to be able to provide good business outcomes. So it's easy to do this. So yes, is it a good purpose? No doubt about it. But the end of it that we get good value. It's a good deal, and it's hard to not feel good about giving people a shot that maybe ordinarily wouldn't get a shot.

Yeah, isn't that the truth? Here's another question from a listener, and that question is, "Sir, have you seen the same amount of employment of people with disabilities throughout your career No.

Up until Joyce Bender kind of entered our life, there was some little bit of activity, but nothing as sustainable and as process-oriented as you have it. You have a vetting process. You don't just represent everybody that you have. So no, this is a much more methodical process that has legs to it. So Joyce Bender, up until you showed up, it was And I have been at 20-some, 30-some different places. It was nothing this sustainable.

Oh, that's sad, but isn't that sad? That's so sad. That's sad, but that just once again illustrates— I mean, I just can't say enough about Highmark, you know that? I can't. The chief human capital officer, Larry Kleinman, told someone that they're going to use me for their PR agency. But the reason for that, the reason I love this company is something Vic said earlier. They don't just say it, they do it. That's why when someone comes up to me and they'll say, "Oh, Joyce, it's so wonderful what you do." I'll say, "Okay, hire someone." You know, it's not going to help if you just tell me I'm wonderful with what I do. Hire someone. When you hire a person with a disability, you change their life. You've given them something they've never had before. Freedom. Freedom. Freedom to buy a house. Freedom to rent a car. Freedom to live the American dream. And you can't live that dream without employment. I always say, what's the first question you get asked? And that first question is, what is your name? What is number two? What do you do? And it's not a good day when the answer is, here's my name, but I don't have a job. I don't do anything. So, so this really gives people dignity, respect. It changes everything. Well, there's something that is getting tremendous national attention in the media, and that is the Highmark 30/30. So how this happened, And every year, forever, I have breakfast at the Holiday with the CEO. So, you know, remarkable that 3 years ago, David Holmberg, the CEO, he came and sat down and, you know, at other companies, I'd be going through, okay, I'm Joyce Bender, I have epilepsy, this is why you should hire people with disabilities. He sits down and looks at me and says, you know, Well, I don't see enough wheelchairs in the lobby. You know, I don't see enough people signing. What's going on here? We need more people. I still, I'll never forget that as long as I live, ever. I may have told this story everywhere because wow, if every CEO felt like that, people would be calling me and I'd be saying, oh, I can't find enough people. People would be hiring people. But then the next year, he says, you know what, I want to show I'm committed to— send me 10 resumes. I'm going to get these people hired. I remember thinking, oh, that's great, but the people beneath you won't be happy with me when they get that resume. But like, oh, the CEO is saying to do this. But you know what, he did. He did make it happen. And actually, the people didn't feel like that because at Highmark, top From top to bottom, people are really engaged in this whole thing. But most recently, this year, July 26th was the 30th anniversary of the signing of the Americans with Disabilities Act. And what a great celebration. David says to me, you know what, I'm going to hire 30 people from you. To celebrate the 30th anniversary of the signing of the ADA, the Highmark 30/30. Wow, I'm so overwhelmed. That is so awesome. Then the pandemic hit. And when he called me, he said, you know, I know I told you this, but I can't get the people hired by July. Like, I didn't even know he meant that when he was talking about the ADA 3030. But you know what? They kept hiring people. They're still hiring people to hit that goal. And they are, by the way, going to hit that goal before December 31st. This is amazing. Do you all understand during this pandemic, they are still hiring people? But I've got to tell you about Mick, who's on the phone with us on my show today. You know what he said to me? I talked to my staff and we won't be letting your people go. We won't be throwing them off contract. We're not going to do it. And they didn't. This is what I mean about this company. So, Mick, why do you think you're the only company in the entire country doing this, this 30/30?

You know, I didn't know that until I saw the notes. Um, you know, I, I really don't know why. Uh, when I first met you, um, you once again were not looking for any kind of pity party or a handout. You represented a business entity of candidates who were worthwhile. So there was the business integrity. Um, you know, our philosophy here is, you know, look out for everybody. So it may have been a little easier, but, you know, in general, uh, Blues Blue plans are certainly on the high side of being very community-oriented, very part of the place, the states they are and the areas they're in. I've been at several blue plans and they're certainly very community-focused without almost to a single one of them. So I was very surprised when I read that note and I really wouldn't know why. I don't know if maybe you don't have access to the right people to make things happen. You're very tenacious, but you know as well as I do in sales, it's the— sometimes Sometimes it's a matter of hitting that right person at the right time to be your tour guide through the place. So, you know, I don't know why anybody else wouldn't. I know we are committed, and you know, David has, as you said, you know, David sticks by his word, and that's easy for us to do the same thing as it goes down amongst the ranks. But why somebody else wouldn't do it, I don't know. And all I can say, Joyce, is if you need any help from me to be an expert witness if you got somebody on the phone who was on the fence, I would certainly be willing to take a phone call with you so I could convey to them, you know, the value of what you represent in that IT perspective. And if it helps open any doors, I would certainly be willing to do that for this entity.

Well, that's what I mean about you, how awesome you are. I hope you all heard that in the United States. Did you hear that? This is what I mean about him. He is a really good man. I told him that before. I said, "You are a really good man." And you know what I mean by that? I mean in your soul. You're just like a good person. And speaking of a good person, isn't David Holmberg amazing?

Well, he is. You know, you see delightful Dave— David sometimes. There's direct David. He is a serious businessman. During COVID he ran the place like an Army general. There wasn't good news, there wasn't bad news, there was just news to deal with, things to accomplish, supplies to obtain, everything else. So he was, you know, he's very direct. He cares a lot about what we do here. So yeah, he's the real deal, no doubt about it. And we follow that where, you know, we're not here to hear ourselves talk, we're here to do good. So once again, he makes my job easy in looking out for those that once again again, need that little extra step.

A little extra step, that's right. But you know what, he, Karen Hanlon, uh, all of you, Larry, Dan Honorato, Deb Rice Johnson, Cindy Hundorfeen, I know I'm probably missing some, oh, Carolyn Daronio, everyone. I mean, you know, I want you to tell our listeners, I, I, am I not accurate that they are really like this? I mean, they, this It's not like I'm saying this and we got a bunch of people up there that really don't care. They really are like this.

Most definitely. I kind of interviewed here more exploratory than anything. We live in Atlanta and my wife misses the weather in Atlanta, which I hear every single day. And she sometimes, she sends me daily weather reports with, "You stink," underneath it. So I'm working through that, Joyce. I'm working through that. That's on me. But when I got here, What was really exciting about is the sincerity of these people. And so I felt like, okay, these people really are a team. They're not just blowing smoke, you know? And so it was easy to quickly adapt to this role and to the city and to what the company means.

Yeah, I agree with you. Hey, we got another question here from a listener, and that question is, Mr. Malik, do you see in the future it turning into a work from home?

Oh, for sure. You know, we have extended our work from home into next— well into next year. I was there philosophically before COVID hit. You know, a lot of these jobs are very production-oriented. You know, we have now technology that can create collaborations through Teams and Microsoft products. So I was headed on the journey journey for remote anyway. In Atlanta, the traffic was so darn bad people couldn't get to work. So people were already working remote. And so we were already doing the same thing here that some of our office space was very cloistered, very cluttered, and it didn't allow for people to do their jobs well. So what we have seen is the employee satisfaction has gone up dramatically working from home. Now, you know, sometimes you have to keep the human interaction going because you don't want to sit out there by yourself because you start thinking, weird thoughts. But as long as you collaborate and keep people part of the team, I see remote being with us, especially in the IT field, 100%.

Yeah, I do too. I do because people have been so productive. And yeah, there are many benefits also to the company, you know, as far as space, rent, etc. But I do see that becoming more standard, you know, across the board. So, Where is it here? Oh, okay, here we go from a listener. Mr. Malik, have you always been like this? Whatever that means.

I am whatever that means. First off, it's just Mick. My dad was Mr. Malik, I'm just Mick. You know, I don't know what it means. I've been in technology a long time. I started at the bottom of the technology ladder and working in a bank. So I have been very, very lucky to slug my way through it. For a while I did do some stand-up. I really enjoyed that. So I have had some very fortunate circumstances to get here. And I'm very lucky to work for a company that allows to pay some of that back.

Stand-up.

And nobody, and by the way, nobody in technology is actually totally normal. I mean, Joyce, come on now. I mean, you've seen us. We can barely match our socks. It's like, how did you find your way to work?

Oh my, yes. Nerds are us. That's what some of my friends call— nerds are us. Well, you know, it is amazing that there has been this— I think one of the reasons it also has been so accepting is that, you know, digital accessibility, so many things related to technology that when you talk to people in IT, they just, oh yeah, you know, they get it. Not the same when with other areas. They just haven't been accustomed to anything like this. So now, whether you're blind or deaf or have some type of mobility issue, you still have an opportunity to work and contribute because of accessibility today. We have a group at our company called High Test, and that's what they do. They make sure websites are accessible and internal applications are accessible. Of course, Highmark gets this. You know, they understand this. But a friend of mine, Eve Hill, who used to be with the Department of Justice during the Obama administration, I heard her speak once and she said, "I have all these companies telling me they want to hire people with disabilities." Well, my question to you is this: Is your website Is your website accessible? Because how can we work for you if we can't apply? And oh, isn't that so true? It has to be accessible or how can you apply for a job? And I'm sure you have seen that since you're in IT throughout your career where it is like that and where it isn't like that. But from the top down, There is such a commitment to this. Karen Hanlon, let me tell you about Karen, who's like number 2 at Highmark running things. She went to lunch with me this one— this is over 2 years ago. I said something about accessibility, making sure Highmark's accessible with their applications. And she said, "Oh, okay." And she wrote something down. Now I see her 6 months later and she says, "I wanna give you an update on this." this with accessibility. And she is still working with our group on accessibility. So that's what I mean when I say it's from the top down. The commitment is from the top down. And that makes such a difference. Uh, Mick, you said that you could give advice to people. So now we have businesses listening to the show about employing people with disabilities. What advice do you have for them?

Give it a shot. So Joyce, you and I met when I first got here 2 years ago, and I knew within the first 5 minutes you were a serious business person dedicated to this endeavor. And then the proof was in the pudding with the resumes. You know, you're going to have to allow for these folks to be a little different than your traditional employee. So you have to allow for a little bit of that., but you have to say, you know, can I still get the right outcomes? And I would say unequivocally yes. We have found these resources to be loyal, committed, and value-add. So I would say that give it a shot. I mean, you know, this is a big company here, as I articulated with the number of people and responsibility. With that big responsibility comes a big responsibility to others. And so we're big enough to where not every hire has to be scrutinized to the nth degree and all that kind of stuff. So we're able to adjust, and we have not made a mistake at all working with Joyce. As a matter of fact, Joyce, I think you can attest to, we wanted to hire some of your folks after their consulting gig was over. So give it a try. You won't regret it. You simply won't. What Joyce Bender provides is a side-by-side solid vetting process. So in all the interviews we have had, there wasn't one interview that came back and saying, gee, I don't know why I got this resume. It doesn't fit. It's like, oh, this resume is a fit. How do we proceed? So they're not just floating resumes out there that chew up managers' time. There is a fit when you engage.

Well, thank you, and I feel that is the way it should be, of course. That's why I always tell people, do not just send resumes of people people with disabilities to a company and then wonder, wow, why aren't they hiring people? What's wrong here? What's wrong is that they're the customer. You have to fit the person's skill to the opening they have. If you don't do it like that, this will not ever work. Remember what I said from the beginning, no pity. People with disabilities need paychecks, not pity. No pity. Equal treatment. Treatment across the board. Okay, there are many, many young people with disabilities who are brutally bullied. In fact, kids with disabilities are bullied more than any other group in America, any group. And I wonder, what advice do you have for them?

I, you know, not having walked in those people's shoes, I can't really sympathize. I mean, it would be inappropriate and grandiose of me. I went to Detroit Public Schools during— when I was growing up, not the suburbs. And I was a very heavy kid. And, you know, bullying was a thing very much at that time in Detroit Public Schools. I was lucky. I could lose the weight and change my situation. Some of these folks obviously don't have that luxury. You know, this is how they were born. And this is what it is. So I would never assume to know what they're walking through because I was able to change, but I can certainly sympathize with being bullied and being the odd one out and only because you look different, not because you are different per se. So I can understand all that. So, you know, once again, it would be very presumptuous and pompous of me to say more than that, but You know, I want us to here to look out for those folks that others did not look out for and may have had that bullying situation. We don't do any of that here. You know, a lot of people in IT are, I would say, including myself, a bit on the nerdy side of things. So it was easy to kind of like have at us. And so I get all that. So that's not who we are. And as far as we're concerned, if you can pass the interview and you do do the work. You can be here as long as you need to because we need the work done.

Yeah, and you can do it. You can do it. You don't, you know, don't listen to what other people say. You just keep moving forward because they don't know that you know that you're an awesome person. So you just keep moving forward. I always tell young people with disabilities, I say, what do you do if you don't like a station on TV? And they say, "Change the station." And I say, "And how do you change the station?" And they say, "With the remote control." I said, "And that's what you do when people say terrible things to you. Out comes that remote control, you change the station, don't listen because you are awesome and you just have to move forward." Okay, here's a question for you, and that is, if your child wants a career in information technology or the computer field, do you have any suggestions of what their academic pursuit should be? Should it just be only a degree in computer science?

Oh my goodness, no. Nowadays, security is very hot. IT security is a very hot item. So there's a big rich field in that than there is development, you know, obviously high-level development around gaming, which is nirvana for a lot of coders. And then there's business development. Then there's testing. Then there's project management. So if you were to look into it, there is a wide spectrum of IT-oriented positions with which to choose from. You know, it's very diverse now. Back when I started was pretty much big mainframe IBM systems and you had coded and that's it. Nowadays with the advent You know, even infrastructure, people run the hardware and software that these big companies run on. There are dozens of different specialties you can pursue based on, you know, how you want to have your career rolled out.

Right, including just as you said, working with the business community, cybersecurity, so many things. There's so many areas that you can move into. It's just vast. It really is vast, although, Would you say the majority of people, Mick, do have a 4-year degree?

Well, you know, I started in programming without a degree. Back when I started, as long as you hustled and could learn, you could get a job. But nowadays, yes, most people, almost everyone who comes to us has a degree, not necessarily in IT, but does have a degree with some then material amount of IT experience. So not always an IT degree, but a degree with, you know, they've done IT someplace that kind of rounds out their ability to seek a position.

Right. And you know what? I mean, someday hopefully that will change with companies, but I have to say, responding to that question, that really I— all my customers want people to have a 4-year degree. I mean, there are those certain jobs where, you know, they'll be lenient sometimes, uh, with an associate's degree. But just as Mick said, it doesn't have to be in computer science and IT. It could be in a mathematician degree or, you know, different things with experience academically in IT. Or, you know, when you get that first their first job moving into IT. And here we go. Mick, what type of characteristics did you look for when you hire people?

That's a great question. Boy, Joyce, you're on your game. You must have a lot of coffee today. You're crushing me over here, girl. I look for first, you know, some flavor of experience. You know, have you had experiences that led you to this position, this opportunity? Opportunity. And then passion. My attitude is if you're smart, you work hard, and you care, there's got to be something we can do with you. Okay? So I mean, come on. So, you know, I look for that. I want to be here. I want to deliver value. I want to contribute and be part of a team. So I always look for that little extra, you know, I want to be something bigger than just myself.

Yeah, having that passion, boy, that makes all the difference in people, doesn't it?

It really does.

Well, a lot of people ask me, and I'm sure they ask all companies, what you're doing about COVID but you're really involved with— to me, you're like the champions because because what are you doing at AHN, Allegheny General Hospital? You know, you're having to deal with this and fight this fight, and it's getting worse right now. And there are some states where they're even running out of hospital beds. But Highmark, what is Highmark doing to protect their employees, and how is it going at Allegheny General Hospital?

Hospital? So, you know, as the names you mentioned, David Holmberg, Karen Hanlon, Larry Kleinman, Cindy Hunterfield, Deb Rice, others, you know, first and foremost is protecting the frontline workers. David had us invest in high-end security equipment for the hospital folks. So that was a key priority, making sure they were taken care of. And, you know, from the business standpoint, everybody's been working from home since the middle of March. So very, very discreet number of people can come into the office. So we immediately took a whole company our size and put everybody remote literally within a week. And so we're able to facilitate that. And, you know, the company has very frequent calls on, you know, the state of the health, what the hospital population looks like, what are the cases. So, you know, this COVID situation is managed very aggressively from both the hospital side as well as the business side for sustainability and continuity. So, you know, the leadership team here is all over preparedness and managing the day-to-day.

And it is certainly a time that I feel AHN is standing forward as a true champion because one day I'm talking to Cindy Andy Hunderfeen, the CEO, and she says to me, I said, well, I know you have to go, you're really busy. She said, yes, busy saving lives. And I thought, oh my goodness. But, but hey, what are you doing? That's what you are doing because this coronavirus is so horrific. I'm sure that like me, Mick, you never envisioned something like this. Am I right?

No, gosh, no. You know, we've been able to sustain the systems and keep things going. And be productive while, you know, we always certainly have a special degree of respect for the frontline workers that you mentioned, you know, Cindy, the people that are out there every day, you know, delivering healthcare. Our jobs are easy, you know, most of us can work remote behind the screen. Others, you know, are on the frontline of that and they're due all the respect that we can offer them.

Yeah, and I say this frequently on the show, but I just want to tell you, to me, all of you frontline essential workers, you are champions to me. You really are. I mean, whoever dreamt that you would be going to a grocery store and that the cashier could be a person saving lives? Who would ever think that, that that person also is putting themself at risk risk being there. You know, I just hope after all this is done that we'll remember that. We'll remember delivery people and we'll remember nurses and we'll remember personal care attendants and all of the people and look at them and remember these are our heroes. Because you know, I'll bet you never dreamt that that person would be putting their life on the line just at a grocery store. I mean, it's amazing to me what people are doing to, to help us and to save lives. And of course, many of those people work at Allegheny Health Network and Highmark. And thank you, Mick, for all of your support in that area with COVID For sure. Well, Mick, You obviously have a lot of passion, very open-minded, very caring. That has to come from somewhere, someone. So I wanted to ask you, who is your role model?

You know, ironically enough, it would probably have to be closest to Winston Churchill, which, you know, for an American would sound kind of weird, given all the heroes we have here, but there was a guy who was a little down on his luck when he took that country over. And, you know, he was not going to give up. And he had to get the nation to a point where they were not going to give up. He felt they stood for the right thing. He turned out to be absolutely right. And he did everything he could to beg, borrow, and steal to stay in the game. Whatever it took, a ship, a tank, whatever, a shell, whatever he had to do to keep that country in the game and keep fighting the good fight, he did. I think there's a lesson to be learned there that intestinal fortitude has no boundaries sometimes, but you have to start with yourself. You have to believe in yourself, and some of it's tougher for people than for other folks, but if you don't believe in yourself, it's going to get tough for anybody else to believe in you. So we've all had had her life journeys, but I've done quite a bit of reading on him. I'm kind of a history buff, and you know, he wasn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but at the end of the day, when that country had its darkest hour, geez, that guy was not going to give up.

No, he was tough. He was a very tough person, a very, very tough person. So guess what? No surprise to me that you would Pick him as your role model because that's what you're like. Well, first of all, Mick, I want to thank you so much. I know how busy you are and you don't know how much I appreciate you taking time to be my guest, but also speaking to people in the United States and around the world. I can't thank you enough.

My pleasure. I believe in your noble cause. I believe what it does. And Joyce, it's just good business. And I'll leave you with that.

That's true. It's just good business. Isn't that the truth? Well, you're the best. We think the world of you. I think the world of you. And on behalf of all those people with disabilities that you've helped gain employment through us, I have to say thank you. And this quote, this quote. We end every show with a quote, every show, and Mick, this one is for you because it reminds me of you. "If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right," said Henry Ford.

There you go.

This, this is Joyce Bender, America's Voice, where disability matters at voiceamerica.com. Join us next week when we talk to the CEO of the Epilepsy Association of Western and Central PA, Peggy Beam Jelly. Talk to you then.

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