John Kemp: His Work as a Disability Rights Leader

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Hello everyone and welcome to the show to everyone in the United States and around the world. Speaking of around the world, special shout out to my good friend Richard Roberts in Brazil. Now, Richard and the other people I'm going to mention are with the State Department, and— or Veniamin in Kazakhstan is not with the State Department, but he's a big advocacy leader for disability rights. And— oh, Richard Roberts. First met him in South Korea, then Japan. Now I'll be going to see him in Brazil. He fights for the rights of people with disabilities. He is just wonderful, as is Gangyong Cho in South Korea. My friend Gangyong, thank you so much for, you know, taking that banner to help people with disabilities find employment. Gangyong, I still remember When I came there the first time and spoke, and there was a group of people with a big banner saying, "Welcome to our speaker, Joyce Bender," and it was all about employment. I'll never forget that. And the 17 countries. We have listeners in 17 countries. You know what? When one changes, another— it's amazing. It stays the same. Same amount, but from Australia to China to Russia, first of all, thank you everyone, and thank you everyone in the United States. It's because of you that this show has been so successful. Thank you because you are helping the lives of people living with disabilities, and for those of you that listen on demand, thank you, thank you, thank you. My only request is you tell other people to listen to this show, like today's show that is going to be phenomenal. Yoshiko Dart, hey, special shout out to you. Won't forget you on any of the calls, Yoshiko. And our guest today, what can I say? I will say he is a celebrity. That's how I would describe him. If you mention him in the disability community, I don't know who does not know him, plus people in procurement, education, everyone knows John Kemp, who right now is the president and CEO of Lakeshore Foundation, but has been fighting this fight since the day he was born. And I just love him. John, welcome to the show.

Thank you, Joyce Bender. It's an honor to be with you. I've admired you for years and years, and may I just say Congratulations on your 20th anniversary of having Disability Matters radio show. That's an incredible accomplishment.

Thank you, and once again, thank you, John. I'm so proud of that. Voice America is so proud that we are the only show that you can go to every week, and as you'll see in a little bit, hear an update on the news And number 2, have guests such as you so that people hear what's going on in the world of disability and can save it. And we have people like the Heinz History Center that want to keep these shows. So, I mean, it's remarkable what has happened. But, Jon, you know, I just— Thank you. You are unbelievably wonderful. It is an awesome, awesome to have you on the show. But here's what happens when I have someone on the show, as I always tell our listeners. Someone, they'll get back in touch with us and say, boy, that show was great, but I don't know that person. Could you tell me more about that person? Like, you know, they're sort of like their story. So I'm gonna ask you If you would not mind sharing your story with our listeners, such as how you became involved in the disability community, where did you grow up, how did you deal with that significant disability? And you know, a lot of people have a disability, but they obviously all don't decide to be an advocate the way you have. Advocate, speaker, leader, author, You'd want it all. So, John, we'll start with your story. How did you first become involved in the disability community?

Sure. Well, thank you. Thank you very much for having me, and do you know, I think I came about it very naturally. I was one of those 17 percenters. I was born with my disability. 83% of our brothers and sisters with disabilities acquired their disabilities after birth. So you and I started our lives with our disabilities, and we have learned to live with them and to speak on behalf of others and do it carefully and with great respect. And, but I, I started my life born without arms or legs, off at the elbows and the knees. I, my arms are off above the elbows, one leg is off above the knee, and my right leg, I have a knee and one of the two bones of the lower leg that goes down about 6 6 inches, so I wear 4 prostheses and I have been changing them as I've been growing, but I stopped growing and that's one thing about wearing prostheses. If you put on some weight, it tells you right away that things aren't fitting very well and it's time to slim down a little bit. So I've just had prostheses all my life and I'm at this unusual turning point in my life that the technology is so good that I think I'm going to make I'm going to take the next step and get some myoelectric arms and see if I can operate them and if they're even more efficient. But I'm just going to take the leap. I've been wearing hooks and sort of mechanical World War II onward arms, artificial arms. But anyway, I was just very fortunate to be born to a mom and dad who cared so much about their kids. I'm the middle of 3 children and my mom unfortunately died 15 months after I was born and 3 months after my little sister Mary was born. And so my dad at age 32 raised 3 of us kids. My mom died of ovarian cancer and she was taking a morning sickness drug as well and nobody really knows why it happened but it just happened and my dad was never one to look back. He always looked forward. So he took over and after some grieving of course, He had given each of us 3 kids to his 3 sisters for 3 months. We have no idea what he did. He came back as an extraordinarily devout Catholic and raised 3 of us kids in the church. Faith was at the very core of his being. He was a civil servant and worked for the Federal Highway Administration and governments, state, local, federal governments for 62 consecutive years. So my dad really got me started, and he was not afraid of using a little bit of, you know, tough love to make sure that I was going to toe the line and do what I was supposed to do. I had tasks around the house that I had to do. I had to be a good student. I had to follow along and lead. And by watching him in his career, that really was an extraordinary career where he kept climbing up the ladder of government, I just thought he was and is and will always be one of my great heroes in my life. He treated us all so equally. He made sure that we each received great educations. I was able to go to Georgetown University after high school in Frankfort, Kentucky. And so I was at Georgetown for 4 years and then law school in Topeka, Kansas at Washburn University School of Law. And after that, settled in Kansas City for a number of years working first as an environmental lawyer, and then because of that time, the Rehab Act of 1973 and the regulations that came out in '78 finally came out. I just became enamored with the civil rights movement. I'd been speaking, I'd been a poster child for National Easter Seals, I'd traveled around the country and gone to Australia. So I had gotten used to speaking about the issues of disability when I was a little boy, and it just became a natural thing when I got older that I would continue to be an advocate. And I am just so pleased that I've been— that the law and I kind of grew up together, and I've, I just feel like I was born at the right time to be able to make some contributions and to be able to talk about the issues that we face every day.

You know what, your father was extraordinary. You're right, because first of all, I'm sure that, you know, your siblings are awesome, but look how successful you are. And you are definitely not about pity, let me tell you that. And, you know, astute businessman, but your father You know, he was not like— I have to be honest with you now. Some parents in the same situation are not as wonderful as he was. That is really— I admire him so much. Every time you tell that story, I think, wow, what a great person he really is. And you did get involved from the beginning. By the way, Joyce, It's so funny we're talking about this. You know, I have a contract doing training for Procter Gamble. And do you know that is where I first heard you speak?

Wow.

Well, I didn't know that. You spoke at some business thing. And it's the same time that the Ten Commandments came out. Remember that?

Of course. Of course I do.

Someone wanted to be trained, either had to buy, you know, each one $400, but that's not what would happen. They keep sharing it, moving it around. It's so funny when you think about how that was. And you had that speech, it's like humorous. I think it's about hair or something. I can't remember it exactly. But that is where I first heard you speak, and I remember thinking, wow, this guy is really impressive. But that shows you how long ago it was.

Well, thank you for the nice words and kind words, and I so admire you. So I'm just going to say, you have done so much for so many people, and you have been a role model to so many people with disabilities. I'm going to add women too, women with disabilities. And to have a a hidden disability, Joyce Bender, and to be out and proud about it is really important. I think I wear my disability on the outside, you live with yours on the inside, and I'm just proud that people with disabilities are now freely talking about their experiences so that young people take pride in the fact that they have a disability, that they don't feel apologetic, and that they feel empowered to participate in all that life has to offer. There's so much out there to do, and, and you and I have found our, our roads, and we have chased them, we have gone down them, we have enjoyed every minute of it, I'm sure. Uh, but it's, it's— I'm just, I'm just honored to know you and very proud of everything you've contributed.

Well, feeling is obviously mutual, and you know, I was at one point the chair of the board of the American Association of People with Disabilities. I left and now I came back. I'm on again. But maybe people, a lot of people don't realize how you were so instrumental, and I can't imagine how proud you are because that's your legacy, in the foundation of AAPD. Do you want, can you share that with our listeners?

I'd be happy to, and it makes me smile because you and I both knew the co-founder, our good friend Paul Hearne. And Paul was a fellow that had osteogenesis imperfecta and was a little person and had brittle bones and just a wickedly smart attorney. And he was so clever and so charming, and he went from working in New York City to, you know, to moving to Washington, D.C. to for a year being Executive Director of the National Council on Disability, to then moving over and running the Dole Foundation on employment of people with disabilities named after Senator Bob Dole. And he was, he did, just did some amazing, amazing things. He and I would get together after work, and I had moved to D.C. in 1990, and Paul had moved there in '89, and He and I knew each other well before that as we were on the speaking circuit and we would go out and have a beer or two. So when we got together in Washington, I said, let's get a beer. And we started talking and said, what does this movement need? When are we ever going to get together and get all the harness, this incredible economic and political power of people with disabilities? And he and I dreamed up, literally on napkins and in a nice bar in Washington, D.C., the American Association of People with Disabilities. How do we advance the economic and political power of people with disabilities? And he was chair for the, the first year. I was the first president, then we switched roles. We had no money, we had no staff, and then people finally started, and companies started giving us monies to allow us to grow our capacity. And thanks to you serving on the board and many of our friends They've been able to generate the resources needed to really make it a viable cross-disability organization that does still promote the economic and political power of people with disabilities. I am very proud of it. It is one of the, one of the things that I've done in my life that I am very humbled and honored to be a part of.

Well, you know, I just want everyone to know that because to me That is like really a great accomplishment because look at AAPD today. And I'm sure when you started it, what, it had like 4 people or something? I mean, it had to be really small before you met Helena Berger.

Exactly. Helena was actually the first paid employee that we had. Paul and I both had jobs and we were doing this as, you know, ceremonially and as founders, and we were just trying to find resources. And when Helena said that she would come from New York and be a part of our AAPD, we were just like so grateful that she would move and come and do this. And I swear she's probably the most important person of anybody for the success and the launch of AAPD. And then of course, We started getting resources, we started growing our board, and we always had the interest of well-to-do and well-influenced people who could step in and help us. But I think more of it was about the impact that we were making. You know, this wasn't about a single disability issue. It was a cross-disability platform that allowed us to influence public policy and be a voice for many who are unheard today and back then. So I'm, I'm very pleased with where Maria Town, the current president and CEO of AAPD, is taking it, and I think she's done a fabulous job.

She is. She's fantastic. But before we go any further, one of the highlights of this show is talking about your new book, Disability Friendly: How to Move from Clueless That's you, see, about your sense of humor. From Clueless to Inclusive. Why did you write it and what is the book about?

Well, thank you for raising it. I'm, you know, everybody is told they have, everybody's got a book in them. And I kept giving speeches around the country and the world and you and I developed certain mantras that we talk about and themes and I kept thinking,, you know, I just— maybe it's time to try to write this. And so I put a proposal together and sent it to a big book publishing house, John Wiley. And Wiley accepted it, much to my surprise. And I started— then I started to have to write it. And it took much longer than I thought. It was so complex and deep, and I had to go back through a lot of files and really think about things. But I had written speeches and I had written articles, and so they were helpful in getting it done. The whole point of writing the book was to sort of memorialize what are the important aspects of disability employment and disability culture that we want everyone to know, not just employers. It's probably written towards employers, but we want the disability community to know everything there is about disability culture and really learn about it. So it's divided into 3 parts, and I'd say the first one's a little bit of an autobiographical approach. What was my journey? That's what most people want to know when sitting on a plane, when sit down next to them and they see artificial arms and they maybe figure out maybe there's something with the legs, but they want to know how did you get here? Where have you been, who are you? So a bit of it is autobiographical. The second part of it is about a deep dive into disability culture. What does disability culture mean? And many minority groups and marginalized groups do develop cultures, and it's the way in which we keep our identity alive and one in which we feel proud to be a part of. So I wrote extensively about the concept of disability culture and what it means and how much we learn about ourselves and how accepting are we as people with disabilities of people who are different from us. You know, we see people of different races and genders and other marginalized groups, and we better be very accepting and very tolerant because we want other people to be accepting and of us as people with disabilities. And then the third part is really a roadmap or a blueprint for employers who are interested in stepping up their efforts to include people with disabilities in the workforce. And so that's the three parts, those are the three parts, Joyce, that I wrote to, and I am happy that I finally got it done. It took about a year to really get it get it done. I was working at— as the president and CEO of the Viscardi Center when I started this, and I transitioned to Birmingham, Alabama, where I have the privilege of being the president and CEO of Lakeshore Foundation. And all the while I was writing this book, which finally was finished in the summer of '22 and was released on October 11th 2022. So it's a relatively new book. Almost all the information is quite contemporary. Judy Heumann wrote one of the, one of the COVID notes for me, and it's probably the one thing that I treasure the most. I, I loved Judy. I'm— I think we're all still grieving over her passing. Shocked and still shocked and amazed that Judy's just not around the corner or on the phone. But Judy was very helpful to me in thinking through how I wanted to write this book, and then she wrote a cover note for it. So it means so much to me in so many different ways.

I know, John, I know. It's good, you know, about a month before or two, Judy called me out of the blue and said, you know, I just want you to know how much your friendship means to me. Well, I was already blown away when she had my name in the acknowledgments of her book, Being Human. I cried.

Isn't that great?

Yeah.

She was good at that. She was the random caller at any hour of the day or night. Who had just called to say, I just want— I just want you to know I love you and I think of you as a dear friend. Yeah. And it don't— aren't— don't we feel special when people do that? And especially from Judy, my goodness.

You know what, she made you think you were the only person she said that to. Yeah, you know what I mean? That's how you felt. You felt so— absolutely. Um, but I want to get back to this book. And by the way, John, I better get that autographed copy.

You will get one. It'll go in the mail today.

Okay, now let's move on to how you buy the book. So how do you get this book? And for our listeners, you know, there aren't a lot of books. I have been working on one, John, but I was—

good.

But I, when I lost Mary, that sort of put me on hiatus here. But I will be getting back in the saddle. But there aren't a lot of books, I'm going to tell you, written by someone like John Kemp, who has more knowledge than you can imagine. I would endorse this book. I haven't read it and I would endorse it. Just knowing that he wrote the book. That's how good he is. And I would not only encourage you to buy it, I would encourage you to tell other people to buy it. And for those of you listening right now thinking, oh, I should tell so-and-so, remember, this is on demand. You can go to Spotify, Apple, benderconsult.com, voiceamerica.com, and listen to the show. So, John, how do people buy the book?

They can go to Amazon Books and look up Disability Friendly, and they can order it, and it'll be on your desk tomorrow. They can go to Barnes Noble and do the same thing. For people who have difficulty reading print, they can go to Audible And there's a Kindle version as well. So it's in multiple formats for anybody out there who needs different formats. You have choices there and you can get access to it. It's a, I'm very proud to say it's selling very well. It's so important that both the employer community deliver the right information to their employees who are doing the hiring and promoting and supervising. But it's also important for people with disabilities to really feel good about being a person with a disability. We've been hiding out too long, and we don't have to apologize anymore. So it is written in a broad sense, and a lot of service providers— I've been doing Zoom calls and webinars with organizations where I talk about the book and they'll buy a bunch of books for their staff or their boards of directors and I'm just like so shocked and amazed. This is not where I thought I'd be in my life and what I'd be doing, but the fact that I've got a book out there and I'm proud of it, I mean, I'm really proud of it and I think it speaks for a lot of people with disabilities, and I wouldn't have written it unless I knew that people with disabilities were approving of it. So go to Amazon, go to Barnes Noble, go to your favorite independent bookstore website, look it up. It's Disability Friendly. That will get you there, but the tagline is how to move from clueless to inclusive. And my wife Sam, said, "Do you think you're insulting people if you call them clueless?" And I said, "Well, I don't think they're clueless, but the publisher loved the title and came up with the tagline." And I said, "If he likes it and the company likes it, I'll go with it." But it's not to insult anybody. It's to say everybody starts at a different place, but we want people to end up where inclusion is is definitely the key.

Oh, I do not think you're being offensive at all. That's reality. I mean, you don't know how many companies say to me, "We don't know where to start," or, you know, "We've never done this before." So, I mean, I have customers that still don't understand why you can't pet the service dog. So, although we all think— we We think in the disability community, "Oh, everyone knows all of this." No, they don't. You know, if you have 100,000 employees, I guarantee you diversity inclusion, HR procurement, you all know, but Mr. Director that is in the company in, we'll say, engineering or marketing, they don't know. So, you know, this is great for people with disabilities, as far as, you know, being inspired and a role model. But this is equally really a treasure to companies, organizations, colleges, you know, across the board. I'll tell you, John, my biggest surprise is Pfizer referred me to this marketing advertising company they work with. And the one woman who is a teacher, professor in Canada, she'll be hearing you because she makes her master's students listen to different shows. These shows. Oh my goodness, when I found out, I couldn't believe it. So now in Canada they can buy your book, everyone listening. How about that? Well, everyone— Yeah, it is time for our news break. This is what I was talking about, John, that only this show does with our great Perry Jude Radesik, national disability rights leader, CEO of Disability Rights Pennsylvania. Perry, welcome to the show. What news do you have for us today?

Well, Joyce, there are very important changes coming to Medicaid and the Children's Health Insurance Program related to eligibility that we all need to know about and to help others get this very important information. So the question really I have is whether any of us are currently enrolled or have a family member or friends enrolled and have health coverage through Medicaid or the Children's Health Insurance Program, also called CHIP. So we need to hear this information and take steps to help people continue their coverage. So here's what's happening. In March of 2020, CMS, which is the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, temporarily waived Medicaid and CHIP requirements and conditions. And so this action eased rules and helped to prevent people with Medicaid and CHIP from losing their health coverage during the pandemic. Very important, it kept a lot of people on health insurance throughout the COVID-19 pandemic. States, though, are now allowed to restart Medicaid and CHIP eligibility reviews. So, the unwinding or the winding down of the public health emergency, and now states are starting to look at eligibility reviews again for Medicaid and CHIP. There have been some healthcare organizations that estimate up to 15 million people could lose Medicaid or CHIP coverage by the time the states go through this eligibility renewal process. So, how, how can we help? Well, we need to encourage individuals on Medicaid and CHIP to take these steps and to go through the eligibility renewal process. So here's the first step. We all know advocacy matters, but here's the first step. Make sure our contact information is up to date. If contact information has changed since enrollment, we have to update that information with the state Medicaid or CHIP programs. You don't want your state Medicaid office sending information to an old mailing address or trying to call an old phone number or email. You've got to update your information if it has changed since your enrollment so that your state Medicaid officials can send you a renewal application. That's the first step and very important to do that now. Then you have to check your mail. That's the second step. State Medicaid and CHIP program offices will mail a letter about your current coverage along with a renewal form. So what's the third step? You got to complete the renewal form right away and send it back to avoid any gaps in coverage in Medicaid or CHIP. So, how do you find out who your state Medicaid or CHIP office is? Well, we have a link. If you go to disabilityrightsPA.org, that's disabilityrightsPA.org, click on today's Advocacy Matters segment, you will find a link to all of the states, the territories, District of Columbia, you will find a link to your Medicaid or CHIP office. It's very important to go to disabilityrightsPA.org today, click on our Advocacy Matters segment, and get to that link where you can contact your state Medicaid or CHIP office to start the process, which is to make sure your contact information is up to date. That's the only way to ensure you're going to get your renewal form and to start this process with your state Medicaid or CHIP office.

I hope everyone listens to this. The part about updating your information, you know, don't wait. Don't hear this and not act on it right away or you'll be left out. Perry, thank you so much, and we will continue to follow up on this with you, Perry. Absolutely. All right, Perry, thanks for calling in.

Yeah, take care, Joyce.

Bye-bye.

That's what I mean, John. We have a news break on the half hour every day. So, um, what do you think about what she said, John?

Well, that was about as valuable of information as, as, as that you could be providing that than anything. It is a frightening moment that the extension has ended and that so many— 50 million people possibly— who are on Medicaid could lose their coverage unless they renew and follow the procedures that Terry spelled out. That was a very, very valuable bit of information. Medicaid is the lifeline. It is the safety net for millions and millions of people with disabilities especially poor and disabled people. So I so appreciate that you had Terry on to give very specific information. Bravo, or brava.

Well, I have some specific information. I want to once more tell you about John's book, Disability Friendly: How to Move from Clueless to Inclusive. You may be an employee somewhere where you're thinking they are clueless. Clueless. And see, John, I can say that. And that they need help. Here you go. Here's the book, Disability Friendly: How to Move from Clueless to Inclusive by John Kemp, K-E-M-P. So, John, you know how I am about the power of employment. I'm all about employment. I live with epilepsy, but Joyce Bender Consulting Services was founded in 1995 as a for-profit company, and truthfully, if you had told me then that we would not have moved the needle that far today, I would not— I would have thought, wait a minute, what am I doing? Should I be doing this? I mean, you know, is there any hope in doing this? And We went from, I think, 90% in the '80s not counted in the workforce, but now it's 68.9% or something like that not counted in the workforce. That is still terrible. That's terrible that we, you know, I mean, not that 50% would be good, but this isn't good. It's like the ADA. Has provided so much greatness, but the needle has not moved significantly in employment. Why do you think that is?

Well, I am just baffled to some extent, but I also think that it's a carryover of a lot of bias against people with disabilities. We even— the, even the poster child syndrome that carries some weight here that people still think of us as young, too young, not qualified, always childlike, never able to be considered seriously for any jobs, and they want the person that's going to be able to be flexible enough to be able to do a variety of different tasks in a job and that someone with a disability is not going to be able to do everything that they might want. That's nonsense. All of that is nonsense. They're missing out on some of the most brilliant people in the world if they draw the line and say they're just personal bias against people with disabilities. And that's really what it comes down to. It's really that inside the framework that the ADA created It is really the personal decisions of employers not to give people with disabilities an opportunity. And I just know when you and I talk to employers and they start thinking about, would you really give up 20% of the population and the excellence that, you know, that people, some people with disabilities have, and you would just systematically cut off that group not to be included in your workforce. No, no, no, we want the very best people here. Then they have to include people with disabilities. Accommodations are de minimis, they're small, they're minor. If it costs too much money, there's a defense under the ADA not to hire that individual. But most people with disabilities have figured out how they can work and where they can work and how they can be very productive. And just think of, we're now into our second generation of kids with disabilities getting into the regular school systems, going to colleges, going to law schools and medical schools and graduate schools. There are— this is a point in time where there are the most well-educated people with disabilities who still remain unemployed. That is— that's just sinful. We are wasting so much talent when we talk about how much we need talent, and I think employers have got a great opportunity to take advantage advantage of all the smart, well-educated people with disabilities out there who are hungry and ready to work.

Oh, I know, John, I know. And for anyone listening to the show, you know, it's not about charity. It's about business. It's about an investment. It's about you being able to hire people that will have great You know, really high retention. And it's not because you're a superhero.

Ha ha.

I don't care what group you are from. If you've been left out and you get a chance to work, no matter what protected class, you're going to jump on that and keep that job. And by the way, another thing, when you hire people with disabilities, no, they don't all have to be in one area. Like all deaf people over here. All people with autism over here. You know, you have to integrate people into the workforce like everyone else. And stop choosing the job based on the disability. Oh, we have a job where there's a lot of noise, so let's hire that deaf person. Okay, well, couldn't that deaf person be IT, finance, other areas? Couldn't there be other areas that they work in? So, you know what you need? You're clueless. That's why you need this book that John wrote, Disability Friendly: How to Move from Clueless to Inclusive.

We are the competitive advantage. We are the competitive advantage to any smart employer out there that will go ahead and commit to hiring more people with disabilities. We will give you more than a good return on your investment.

Amen to that. Amen. Because, John, when people tell me, oh, we've hired a lot of— we're hiring them, I'll say, okay, how many wheelchairs do I see at the company? How many service dogs? How many people signing? Uh, none. One, something's wrong. So I mean, I have a non-apparent disability, and I so much appreciate you hiring people with non-apparent disabilities. But I've got a surprise for you. You've hired far more than you know. They just aren't telling you because they're afraid.

You are so right.

You know, when I go to a company and they say that, I'll say, Oh, they're already here. They're already working here. They have bipolar disorder, depression, epilepsy, post-traumatic stress disorder, diabetes, cancer. I could go on and on. It's just— MS. It's just— they're not telling you. They're afraid to tell you. They're afraid all of a sudden, "Oh, this person has MS." Oh, and they know it. People know it. So that's why people aren't disclosing. But believe me, you have more people with disabilities working for you than you could imagine. I have to ask you something, John. People with— students with disabilities, which as you know, I founded the Bender Leadership Academy in 2018 after doing volunteer work for 20 years training high school students with disabilities about the world of work and how to deal with bullying, because this is a group bullied more than any other group. Do you have a message to my students? You know, there's hundreds, of course, over the years, but right now, those students, timey, they're spit on, they're called names. As you know, some kids have taken their life through what's said about them on Instagram or Facebook or whatever. What message do you have for them?

Well, that's a— you're absolutely right. This is one of the big, big problems of this world, and it's not just focused on people with disabilities. I think anybody that presents differently is subject to a lot of ridicule and bullying and humiliation, and I think it's, you know, good parenting would help, better parenting would help, but, and it can't be accepted as this is just kids being kids. I think presence, the mere presence of more and more people with different kinds of disabilities is really going to be the education of all students. Out there. They're going to learn more about who we are, that we're more like them than we are different. But it's going to be a brutal time, and it is already. And my heart goes out to people who have such difficulty in accepting it. And I'm pretty upset with the folks, with the kids who tease and humiliate people who are different from them. It is, it is wrong, and my advice is be tough, be fair, and be proud. And if you're all of those things— and I know I can't imagine what it's like to go to high school today and have to endure what I know a lot of high school students are going through, enough to where their mental health is is fractured and they are suffering tremendously and there aren't enough resources to help. I have a grandniece who took her life about 5 years ago and she was 16 and a volleyball player and a straight-A student and nobody could imagine that somebody like that was suffering with such severe depression and mental illness. So it's very personal to me how this happens and for people with disabilities who also can have these kinds of issues, it is just traumatizing. But we've got to stop this nonsense. We've got to stop putting people down just because they are— they look different. And we do it by, by inundating the school systems and being a part of it, and also developing a resilience among ourselves And I think this is where pride in ourselves and pride in our disability takes hold, and I think we can help each other withstand these kinds of insults and comments that have always been around. They just are finding new ways against people with disabilities. My heart goes out to anybody that has to endure this kind of stuff, and it shouldn't be happening.

I'll tell you, John, I— Joyce Bender, my heart goes out to you about your grandniece and, oh my God, the family. This is what happened to a 10-year-old girl with autism who was being brutally bullied, called the N-word, went to school one day with Febreze because they told her she smelled. What happens? She took her life. 10 years old. Terrible. Terrible. I mean, I really am so sorry and so sad for you and for the family. I mean, that's horrible. That's actually— and I hope you will also think about how successful John has been, you know, when you're listening. So don't listen. Don't listen. You're awesome. Don't listen. And John, before we go to I wanted to talk about the John D. Kemp Award, Inclusion Award. What is that?

Well, it was just an incredible honor for me to have the Disability:IN organization, and I was involved in getting that started, and volunteers did it. Tony Coelho was very involved in it. You were very involved in it. As volunteers, and I was the first staff person that kind of said, this is going to be a big organization and we need to get this organized right. And so I asked for and received a contract to manage it for a number of years, 7 years or so, and grew it into an organization where my number 2, Jill Houghton, took it over and has taken it to way beyond my wildest dreams. And I guess as a thank you, they named the award of the evening at the end of the Disability:IN conference, the John D. Kemp Leadership and Inclusion Award. It means a great deal. It's named because I hope that I have helped, like you have, Joyce Bender, helped companies include people with disabilities in all aspects of the employment, of supplier diversity in the recruitment process. I hope that that's what it is being given for, to recognize companies for it. So I'm still alive and they named an award after me. Go figure that out. I can't believe that. It's—

Oh, I can. I can believe it. I can believe it. That is awesome. And by the way, Another great accomplishment in your life is Sam. So I have to say hello to your wife Sam.

Isn't she something? Yes, she's an extraordinary, extraordinary person. She was deeply involved for 18 years with United Cerebral Palsy of Greater Birmingham and then went to Washington, D.C. to be with me, and she became the Chief Development Officer for Lupus Foundation of Children of America, where they raised gobs of money thanks to Sam. And now they're well on their way, and she has retired, and I am, I'm still working, but she is, she is just a phenomenal partner. Everybody should be so lucky to find someone in their life to, to be, to have as a partner and to go through life together. So I will tell her your good wishes and your kind thoughts and I, I'm very grateful for every day I have with my wife Sam.

Yeah, she is awesome. Well, before we end the show, we need to do What's Happening at Bender. Gerald, are you on the line?

Yes, I am.

Okay, Gerald, what's going on at Bender?

Well, Joyce, we have— I've called recently on the show talking about our opportunities in IT, but I wanted to share for our listeners today all the job opportunities we have in the other business disciplines we're working to fill. You know, for those longtime listeners, you may know that Joyce's career is in IT executive search before she started Bender, and that's always been a big part of what we do, but we've always got opportunities outside of IT. So if you're out there looking for work right now, and you're listening to this show, we have jobs for accountants, for people in procurement, and as business analysts helping with the processes and communications of business at all different levels. Lots of great roles across the business and other disciplines outside of IT as well. And if you're interested in applying, you can just go you can go to benderconsult.com/jobs to check out those openings. Once again, that's at benderconsult.com/jobs.

And Gerald is our manager of talent programs, and he's right. We have jobs across the United States. We have jobs that are— many are remote, and we have high-level jobs in project management, in IT. So, tell everyone, share it with someone looking for employment, and apply today. Thanks, Gerald. Thank you for calling in.

Thank you, Joyce Bender.

Well, John, thank you so much for being with us today.

My honor. It's so great to be with you, and I'm proud to know you and to call you a very, very dear friend. Congratulations on all your successes. And especially getting so many people with disabilities real work.

Thank you. Yeah, that's what it's all about—competitive employment. Well, we end every show with a quote, and today here's the quote for you: People with disabilities are inherent problem solvers. We have to be. We are naturals at finding a way to to work around and through issues, challenges, and the unexpected. What workplace couldn't benefit from that form of thinking? Said John Kemp. This is Joyce Bender, America's Voice, where disability matters, at voiceamerica.com. And in the words of Mary Brooker, Choose joy.

Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific time and 2 PM Eastern time for another installment of Disability Matters right here on the Voice America variety channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. VoiceAmerica.com.