John Walsh: Committed to Hiring People with Disabilities

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guest, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

And hi everyone, welcome to the show. Everyone in the United States and around the world as right here in America, we kick off National Disability Employment Awareness Month, one of my favorite months. As you know, I'm a woman living with epilepsy, a disability-owned business enterprise, but Bender Consulting focuses the heart and soul on the employment of people with disabilities and high school students living with disabilities. To me, my life is employment. That's why I love the employment for people with disabilities. But this is the month, and as you will see in a minute, that's why I started out with not only a powerhouse, but may I say, the real deal. I don't care what level the person is, they're not going to be on this show if they don't hire people. No way. Not this month, that's for sure. So, hey, speaking of around the world, from China to Australia, thank you so much for these great listeners. As I've been telling people, next year we're getting close to the 20th anniversary of this show and the listening has spread across the world. And although in some company, some countries, like Saudi Arabia, there may only be one person. One person, you're making a difference. One person, you matter. But thank you to all of my listeners around the world and of course in the United States. So around the world, I got so involved in person with different countries through the U.S. State Department. So I have to send my shout out to my friend Richard Roberts, who I love so much, who is with the U.S. State Department and who I was with in South Korea and Japan, and now he is in Brazil. And he is a wonderful person. Richard, I can't wait to see you again, whether it's in Pittsburgh or Brazil. Love you for being a disability rights leader. And Gang Young Cho, a real fireball right there in South Korea with the U.S. State Department. I was in South Korea twice. I just love him. Uh, Veniamin in Kazakhstan, I always think about you, Veniamin, because of what's going on in the world with the Ukraine, and we all stand behind the people in Ukraine and behind you. And then Cheryl Harris, who is with the State Department, right here in the United States. You know, I met her when I did a Zoom program for Tunisia and Libya, and then guess what? She moved here. So, you know, a special shout out to all of you, especially— here it comes— Yoshiko Dart, my friend Yoshiko. Lead on, Yoshiko. Special shout out to you. Every show. Well, we have to thank Highmark because we have had Highmark as a lead sponsor for years, and they have been faithful in their commitment to Bender and to people living with disabilities, and I thank them so much. You know, as I said before I started the show, my guest, John Walsh, who is the founder and CEO of Red Summit, but has been at so many different companies, so still a consultant at so many companies, has been— I've known him for such a long time, and I'll tell you, he is the real deal. As I said, he hires people. That is where the rubber meets the road, when you hire people. With disabilities. And that's why I'm kicking off the month with John, a very successful business leader and advocate. Uh, John, it is a pleasure to have you on the show today. Welcome to the show.

Joyce Bender, thank you so much for having me on. Honored to be on for a second time and looking forward to a great conversation to kick off the month.

Thank you, John. So, John, you just heard me talk about our listeners around the world. And of course, people in the United States that do not know you. But let's start with you, with your story, like where you grew up, what academic path you chose, what was your first job, and through the years, what led you to today?

Sure, Joyce. Yeah, I grew up in San Diego, California, and lived there for many years, actually. And as I thought about what I wanted to do as I was working my way through high school, I knew I I liked math, I liked science, and I liked people. So I ended up doing a bachelor's degree in electrical engineering at UCLA, a master's degree at San Diego State in electrical engineering, and got my first job with the Department of Defense, actually, and did a variety of things there from working on the depot maintenance of amphibious assault vehicles to flight testing missiles to working on the Global positioning system, which we all use today in our cars and everything we do. And saw this whole thing about IT and computers. You know, I bought my first computer in 1981, an Apple II Plus, for $3,000 back in 1981, which was a lot of dollars. It was my whole savings. And I've always found computers fascinating. So I worked my way career-wise into that, got my MBA while I was working at the Department of Defense at Pepperdine University, and then hopped right into the commercial market. Right after the dot-com boom was happening in 2000. And since then, it's just been a wonderful journey. I've lived overseas for 10 years in a variety of countries. I've had the opportunity to lead people in over 100 countries. And, you know, being outside your comfort zone, living somewhere where you don't fit in, has always, you know, been a— I thought a great experience for my children, but also for me. And really learned that, you know, everybody, you know, where you're from is what your background is, brings such diversity to the world. I thought it was important to have that in my life the rest of my life. And so today I actually work at Paraton, which is a large global government systems integrator, and I also advise several startup companies. And I have a special place in my heart for those startup companies that are helping people with disabilities in the healthcare space, cybersecurity, and where artificial intelligence and really the Web3 metaverse will really create a more inclusive world and allow people to really engage worldwide, to collaborate, to hopefully, you know, get us all through the tough times we have, whether it's a hurricane somewhere in Florida, which has happened just recently, or, you know, the war in Ukraine, as you mentioned. There's just so many things going on in the world that having a place where everybody can interact in a healthy, positive environment, looking forward to getting us there. So that's me in a nutshell, Joyce. Still on my journey. Still got a lot to do, but that's where I am today.

Wow. You know what, John? Every time I talk to you, I learn something new. And I mean, I already knew you were really smart, but wow, what a background academically. You are just— if you know him, if you knew him, he is very modest. I mean, in no way, shape, or form does he want any of this. And there are people that have far less education that do that thing. But he is just a wonderful, modest person that I'm so honored to know and have as a friend and be on the board of the Bender Leadership Academy and an advisory board for Bender Consulting Services. And John, at CSC, which then became DXC Technology, you hired many, many people with disabilities from Bender. What business reasons did you have for doing that?

At the time, and it's still a problem actually, it was tough to find talent. There's really a shortage in the market, especially in technology, and Really, in technology, you can be very flexible with where people work, really location-independent roles around the company. And I was just looking for where can I find, you know, this untapped workforce that, you know, exists. And I was fortunate enough to meet you early on in my career at Computer Sciences, working with a mutual friend, Russ Ellen, and From there, I just was fascinated and excited about really taking advantage for me as a business person. Nothing about pity. I'm looking for people that can make us competitive, people that can bring a diverse background and experience to the table. And I just have never been disappointed with the talent that has come on board working with you and others to, you know, create an environment where we're inclusive of people with disabilities and, you know, with some pretty simple accommodations. And unfortunately, there's a combination, I think, of stigma, but also a fear of the unknown. If you haven't, you just don't know what it's like, or you're not sure how you would work with somebody with a disability. Breaking down those barriers, uh, you know, it comes from kind of leadership at the top, but also creating an environment where, uh, it's safe and people can have the conversations they need to, to get smart on, you know, what it's like and what it means, not only for— and we'll talk, I'm sure, about some of the work we're doing together at the Bender Leadership Academy, helping those with disabilities enter the workforce successfully. But at the same time, the company needs to be ready as well. So there's some work there that needs to be done. But, you know, and years later, of course, you know, companies like Accenture have done studies on hiring people with disabilities. And as I thought, it's a no-brainer. It just adds so much value to a company, and in my experience has over the years. It's just I've been so fortunate to have run across you and work with you. You're such a great advocate for people with disabilities in employment, and looking forward to hiring more with you.

Well, he has for years. And just so you know, wherever he went, he called me on his own. It was not please, please. I mean, on his own. And it's helping me still with companies. And I hope you heard what John said about business investment. Go to Accenture.com and get the Accenture report. You know, they graciously pro bono did a study years ago at the request of Ted Kennedy Jr. looking at companies that hire people with disabilities and those that do not. And very clearly, you saw that companies that did are 2 times more profitable than those that do not. So, as Ted said, for once we had facts. You know, we had facts. We already knew that there are so many business advantages of hiring people with disabilities. But now we could say, wow, and look at this, look at this data that really correlated things we've been saying all along. But It's business. Remember, it's all about business. And with that, we're going to get ready to go to break. If you just joined us, we are kicking off National Disability Employment Awareness Month with John Walsh, founder and CEO of Red Summit and working at Paraton and just an advisor to so many startup companies. He is just awesome. We'll be right back. Don't go away.

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You're listening to Disability Matters. If you have a question or comment, Call in toll-free at 1-866-472-5788. That's 1-866-472-5788. Now please welcome back the host of Disability Matters. Here's Joyce Bender.

Welcome back, everyone. And we are celebrating National Disability Employment Awareness Month, kicking off the month with a real powerhouse from the business community, John Walsh. Who has hired people with disabilities for years. And as I always say, that's the real deal. Don't tell me how nice I am, hire someone with a disability. That's what really counts when you hire people with disabilities. And John, people with disabilities seek equal treatment and no pity from employers. And actually many people do not understand that. And I'll be honest with you, I still, still have employers or new companies I'm working with that will say, "Oh, man, I'm just glad that's not me," or, "Oh, you know, what a thing they're going through," that have that pity orientation, which actually they're reinforcing stigma when they say those things. It's very important to not have pity. What business reasons do you have? Why do you think that's important?

Yeah, well, I think you hit the nail on the head early on there with stigma and having that tone again from the top. At the end of the day, business isn't about pity. It's about making money and delivering business results and, of course, impacting society in a positive way through the ERG groups and ESG work. Work and diversity, equity, and inclusion groups that all companies are building and have built over the years. But, you know, at the end of the day, we as a business need, you know, people that are hardworking, that hopefully are loyal, and if we create the right culture and environment for them to work in. And, you know, again, I think it comes down to a bit of the fear of the unknown and the stigmas around working with people with disabilities. And some of that's just awareness. And, you know, it— It's a journey, and it's way too slow as far as I'm concerned. I mean, from my perspective, you know, I still can get some of the best talent in the world in this whole workforce of people with disabilities that people aren't tapping into. But it's unfortunate because just the adversity, you know, grit. That anyone has to go through to get through whatever their disability is, changes a person. And I think partly for the better. I mean, these are people that are struggling just to get the right transportation or get the right healthcare support or simple things that many of us take for granted. And when you've worked that hard to get through kind of the things that we all would think are just a given, you come to the table with that grit, that focus, that hard work ethic, showing up early, leaving a little later, making sure everything's done very well. And I see it in, you know, great people, you know, whether they have a disability or not. But to me, it's just one of these areas where pity is not part of the equation. It's just this talented workforce that people unfortunately You know, in even diversity, equity, and inclusion boards, which I work with a lot of boards and board advisors, anytime I'm in one of those groups, I ask about, well, we talked about minorities and making sure that women are employed and all, but what about people with disabilities? And, you know, unfortunately, there's still a lot of blank looks or people, oh, we hadn't thought of that. So, I think it needs to be a discussion out there, and we need to just help continue to break down that barrier because As you know, Joyce, you know, 20%, 1 out of 5 people walking around us today have a disability of some kind, and here in the United States, and over 1 billion worldwide. And it's just a pity, I think, that we have not, you know, not pity for unemployment, but pity that, you know, the rest of the employing, the employers around the world, whether it's government or commercial industry, haven't really engaged and taken advantage of, especially the technology that, you know, we all saw we could work from home, you know, during COVID And that's always been one of those things, oh, well, we can't support people working remotely. Well, guess what? We just did that for a couple years now. So I think, you know, my hope is, is, you know, the environment opens up with new technology and the culture changes in terms of the way we work. It'll open up more opportunities for competitive employment for people with disabilities.

You know, when you were saying that, John, and I know you remember this, remember the days that, you know, if you had an employee and you would call the company and say, you know, this person is there having to move here, is there any way they could work from home? Oh no, no, no, that's a perk. That, that is a perk. Like, I remember Kevin Rocker. I remember Kevin, our friend. He got to stay home one day a week. This was like a big deal. He's in IT. This was such a big deal. Isn't it amazing how that has changed and people now see it works?

It really is. And it's an environment I've worked in, you know, for years in technology just because we could. You know, you could do things over the phone. You could log into your computer and get your work done. But there's all sorts of other roles in industry around the world that can do that too, and we just proved it out, right? So I think we've all seen how it can be done, and my hope is that opens up a channel to, you know, continue to bring on people in competitive employment with, you know, whatever their background is, including disabilities.

Me too. Well, years ago, I was the chair of the board of the American Association of People with Disabilities. I had to leave the board for a while. Now I'm back as the vice chair of the board. And I just love AAPD. I wanted to ask, why, John, did you want to serve on the board? Why did you want to serve? And we're so lucky now that you're the treasurer. Of the board. Why is it so important to you, and what impact do you believe AAPD possibly could have on employment?

That's a great question, Joyce. You know, as you get older, and I, I'd like to think hopefully a little wiser, you think about who you want to work with, where you can make a difference with the experience you have. And to me, the American Association of People with Disabilities was is this cross-disability organization. It really was focused on policy and how we can make sure that the rights and access are there for people with disabilities. And, you know, I— because of my background, both in business and technology, I felt that I could add some value to the AAPD in helping them in their business journey, advising them as they work through modernizing, whether it's their website or the technology they use for their employees. But engaging with businesses, you know, as a business person, obviously I can speak that language. And, you know, working with a lot of the new work we're doing at AAPD and engaging the business community has been great. But just the long-term work that they've already been done in the mentoring program, the internships, getting people the tools and the information they need so they can go vote., you know, which is just something we— is hard enough to vote as somebody who doesn't have a disability, it feels like sometimes. So, you know, all these things to me were just— made it a no-brainer to be there. Of course, and knowing that you had been there and Ted Kennedy, who you mentioned earlier, Jr., just a fantastic role model in, you know, advocacy for people with disabilities, it just I like to surround myself, you know, they say you're the average of the people you hang around with. And to me, I thought it was going to up my average big time, helping a great cause and working with great people.

Well, AAPD is very, very lucky to have you. And you are a great contributor. So, I'm really thrilled that you were on, but I am more thrilled to say You are a board member for the Bender Leadership Academy, which prepares high school students with disabilities for the world of work and dealing with bullying, and they are so often left out of employment. I know that for over 20 years, and I want everyone to know this, I'm meaning like maybe 15 students for Many African American, no surprise, because I said poor and disability. He went to all these classes that we held in Delaware, which is where I first met John, because that's how I met him. I was working with CSC. Why do you believe, John? What do you think we can do? To improve the employment of students with disabilities? I ask you that because you have been so involved with Disability Mentoring Day. And also, do you think that can help? But why do you believe we need— what can we do? What can we do to improve the employment of students with disabilities?

Sure. I think, you know, in general, We're seeing just as a whole, right, the education system here in the United States is due for an overhaul. And I think we're also seeing, especially in technology, that even university degrees that we thought we needed to have people to have in technology, actually we were better off finding somebody who's a great person at a Codeathon or a Hackathon. And so in the businesses I have been involved with the last several years, I've really shifted my thinking around What are the real requirements that, you know, from an entry-level perspective and even a working-level perspective, are we really going to ignore talent because they, you know, didn't get the right degree at the right college? And when you find the right person with the right attitude, the right athlete, even if they don't have the certifications that they need, it's something that you can, for many cases, get free online or for a small fee get done. You can become very proficient and contribute to the workforce and certainly in technology and many other areas in the workforce and industries around the world. So for me, it's about how do you groom talent and the work that we're doing together at the Bender Leadership Academy that you've led and continue to grow and just a fantastic program is filling one gap really and really helping people at that high school level thinking about doing trade school work or even in a trade school. How to be successful in the workforce. Because until you're in it, right, until you're working in a job, in an office or remotely, you don't know what it's like. You don't— nobody does, right? And so creating an environment where they can understand what's important, hear from executives and people that work in the workforce and give them advice and give them a path to get that experience is super important. And I think that's where the mentoring is so important in giving people who just don't have that person to talk to about, well, what is it really like? What are the 3 things you look for in a great employee? And what kind of certifications should I think about getting? Those, having that channel for anybody is so important, I believe. And I mentor not only people with disabilities, but all of my leadership teams and anybody I work with who will listen to me. I think I have something to share, but it's so important in really, you know, building trust, understanding where people are coming from as a mentor too. When you hear somebody's backstory and where they've worked or what they've done in life or where they come from, you know, I'm a big 360-degree learner. So I think there's also kind of a reverse mentoring going on as a mentor where you learn from your mentorees around, you know, hey, I never thought about, you know, that background and how you could use that background to help me, you know, with my business today. So, I think it's just a channel that's so important that, you know, leads to internships, leads to jobs, and I highly encourage it in any company I work with. And I've, you know, if they don't exist at the companies I work with, I start them myself, and it's always worked out well.

Yeah, I agree with you. That's why you always participated in, also, in Disability Mentoring Day. And just as you said, I think that makes a difference. And for anyone listening right now, it is the third Wednesday of every October where high schools send students with disabilities to companies or to an organization for a day of job shadowing. Frequently, the bus will get the kids there. It'll be 9 o'clock. They'll stay to maybe 1 o'clock. And they are mentored for the day. They're a mentee to someone for the day. And the mentor, they see what the job is. They see what the company is like. It makes a difference two ways. Number one, to the student, it's, "Wow, you mean I could do this job?" And to the mentor, it's, "Wow." Why am I not hiring people with disabilities? So Disability Mentoring Day here in Pittsburgh, our headquarters, we have a huge Disability Mentoring Day that we are the regional coordinators for. Last year we had 500 students with disabilities going to different companies. So Disability Mentoring Day, third Wednesday of every October. So if you aren't doing it now, at your company, or if your school isn't involved, get them involved for next year. It really does make a difference. So, John, as you were talking about, you know, these different issues, how is it possible that after all these years, 70%— to be precise, 68% of people with disabilities are still not counted in the workforce with double the unemployment rate. How is that possible when so many companies are looking for talent?

It boggles my mind, Joyce Bender. Really, I'm struggling to find that answer myself. When I think about it, I mean, you know, as an American, I kind of take great pride in being inclusive and having a diversity. Our country is made up of immigrants and people from all over the world and continues to be. And diversity of experience and talent includes people with disabilities, and it's 1 out of 5 of us, right, on Earth here. So, I feel like there's a few things working against us at the moment. I think there is some bias in some of the HR platforms that are out there today when we're, you know, we get hundreds of resumes into a company for a particular role. Some of the artificial intelligence built in may be biased in some cases to, you know, have somebody with a disability not be considered for a role. I think, as we talked earlier a bit, the educational requirements, you know, sometimes it's, you know, difficult, especially from a disadvantaged, you know, home. And also having a disability can make it really hard to get the education at the pace and the level and even be able to afford it at a higher level. So I think the requirements for education are biased against people with disabilities at some level. And then just this— it's just like I mentioned, it's kind of the diversity, equity, and inclusion. It's all about talking about it, right? And we're talking about many things, but not including, you know, making sure that we include people with disabilities into our thinking about a diverse workforce and equity and inclusion, all of which have their own vectors of importance, right? And so, and then on top of that, because of the stigmas, you know, people don't necessarily self-identify as having a disability. So it's a lot going on there that I think adds up to a headwind, but I'm hoping we can break those barriers down as we just continue talking about it and educating people across the world around, you know, this is a journey in life, right? We were born and we can't hardly do anything, right? We need our mom. We need to get fed. And we go through life and maybe we end up with a short-term or long-term disability. And then at the end of life, we end up kind of where we started when we were born. So, It's nothing to be afraid of. It's just— we just need to understand, you know, how to engage better with what unfortunately is, I think, some headwinds against getting people in competitive employment with disabilities.

Yes, that really worries me about the artificial intelligence in HR software platforms because There are people with disabilities, maybe they had an accident, so they were off work for a few years. Or, you know, had a heart attack, so they were off work for a year. I mean, you know, you could go on and on. Or as you said, do not have the education that the company is looking for or years of experience. And I'm afraid they would be, you know, sorted out. That really does worry me. And, John, I will look forward to working with you and a few others on that because I think it is such an important issue. You know, with that and education, you know, we've got to come up with— and I have one company here in Pittsburgh, they do not require a college degree. And, of course, they're IT because they feel you can get training, you know, somewhere that is significant that you don't need the 4-year degree. So, hopefully some of those trends will continue on. And John, you talked about Russ Owen. And in this case, you. Like, I know you're talking to a company for me. And you're at the executive level. What do you think it means to have support for employing people with disabilities when you have that from the top?

I think, you know, in any company, tone at the top is so important, and tone at the top comes in many forms, right? It's about, you know, what you talk about and making sure that it's part of the conversation in board meetings and staff meetings. You have programs that encourage engagement in the diverse workforce that's out there and the community. And part of it is, unfortunately, still is, we talked about a few times, breaking down the stigma. And I think really education and really to help eliminate the fear of unknown. I think people just take a pregnant pause when they say, "Oh, I mean, I don't— when I think about somebody who's blind, I'm not sure how they could to do the job because they can't picture it, understand it, understand the assistive technology that's out there to help people do, you know, many things. And so it's really a bit of education that needs to happen from the top. Again, tone at the top. Also, I find it, at least when I've worked with you and others and bringing people on with disabilities, is you got to just, again, carve out roles, carve out, you know, these are roles that we know could be done remotely. These are roles roles that we know can be done with a certificate, not a college degree. And we're going to specifically hold those for people with disabilities and start bringing people with disabilities into the workforce. And then it just becomes, okay, everybody's okay with self-identifying. Everybody understands this is just another person with some different abilities than I have. And that kind of takes that fear and stigma. Out of the system. And then, you know, it's also what you measure, right? It's, you know, are you making it part of people's objectives as leadership to make sure they have a diverse workforce? And then lastly, I think you get some reverse mentoring. You get some reverse mentoring from the people that are actually in your workforce that have disabilities, and you're literally teaching leadership and their coworkers, you know, what it's like to work with somebody with a disability. And we all may, you know, tomorrow I could end up with a disability just like anyone. And it's, you know, it's just, I think it helps break down those stigmas and fears that we talked about. So again, tone at the top sets the tone and then engaging everybody in the workforce to kind of change that culture that makes it more inclusive and open and less fearful. And less stigma.

Yes. And, you know, for example, if people at the managerial level, mid-management level, maybe they want to do this, they want to hire people with disabilities, but they feel they'll be getting pushback until you hear from the top, the CEO is behind this. The CIO, the CFO, the C-suite, whatever it is, is behind this, then all of a sudden you're not afraid to do these things and you can do these things. And you also know, hey, they're looking at this in the company. I mean, it makes such a difference. It's hard for people to do this, you know, at companies. And some can, but it's harder. It's harder when you don't have support from the top. It really is. That's why next year I'm going to be going to different companies, meeting with different CEOs, taking Tony Cuolo with me. Because we got to do something. We've got to do something national, big. To showcase what people with disabilities can do. And as I said, when it's from the top, it makes a difference. What you need is someone from the top and then someone in HR that's fabulous. And at CSC, that was Lee Ann Thomas, wasn't it, John?

Oh, yeah. No, she's wonderful. She was a great help. Help in just making sure things got done. Like you said, it's all about bringing people on board and getting them employed, and she drove that home. And she was a great advocate and friend and still is today in helping that get done. And you need those kind of people that are champions and get it inside the company to lead by example and show people how it's done.

And here's the great thing. When she retired, I got her 9 years ago, and she is in fact the CEO Joyce Bender's chief of staff. And wow, I don't know what I'd do without her. She keeps me on the right path, I'll tell you that. But she is an absolutely wonderful person. And like you said about Russ Owen, because of Russ Owen, That's another thing. If it's at the top, they meet with their leaders. They meet with the leadership team and say, I want to do this. And that has an incredibly powerful impact. And we're going to talk more to John when we come back and then close the show. But if you just joined us, we're celebrating National Disability Employment Awareness Month. Kicking it off with John Walsh, founder and CEO of Red Summit, advisor to startup companies, working with Paraton. He is a national advocate for people with disabilities. And we're going to go to break. This is Voice America. Don't go away. We'll be right back.

At Highmark, we believe what makes us different makes us better. Our differences broaden our perspectives and foster diverse skills which complement each other, creating a stronger and more vibrant workforce. It's this belief that earned us recognition by the USBLN and the American Association of People with Disabilities as a 2014 Disability Equality Index Best Place to Work. So we'll continue to celebrate diverse individuals Because inclusion benefits us all. To find out more, visit highmark.com.

You're listening to Disability Matters. If you have a question or comment, call in toll-free at 1-866-472-5788. That's 1-866-472-5788. Now please welcome back the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

And welcome back, everyone. We are celebrating National Disability Employment Awareness Month, and we are kicking off the month with John Walsh, who is not only a business executive, but I'm proud to say he's on the board of the Bender Leadership Academy. He's on the business advisory board of Bender Consulting Services. and he is the Treasurer of the Board for the American Association of People with Disabilities. So, John, you know, when we were talking here earlier, you had just said how, you know, you wanted to do something, you know, to give back and to help. When we talked earlier, like, about AAPD, obviously someone had an impact on you or or some people, who would you say is your role model?

That's a great question, Joyce. And I've been fortunate enough to have worked with just so many interesting and great leaders really around the world in just my travels in business. And just, you know, when I think of role models, I kind of have 3 things I think about. One is, you know, technology because I'm in it. So, I think of like a Steve Jobs or an Elon Musk because they're just so innovative and do to make so many things possible in the world that weren't before. When I think about leadership, I think someone like Colin Powell is a great example of a leader with just an interesting and diverse background and just so many nuggets of wisdom in the way he led people that I learned from. He was the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff when I was in the Department of Defense. So, just a great leader. And then when I think about just making a difference in the world, I think about Clara Barton, who, you know, risked her life bringing supplies and support to soldiers in the field back in the day, in the 1800s, and became founder of the Red Cross in 1881 at 59, and then went on to lead it for another 23 years. To me, I love that because it's— I'm not 59 yet, and there's somebody that stepped up and made just a massive difference, not only in the time she led the Red Cross, but even today and onward. Just a great organization that helps so many people in times of need. There's, here in the United States, there's 60,000 disasters a year. There's people who need blood and the blood supply. There's wounded warriors coming back and making sure that military families can stay connected. It just does so many things that are so important to just making the world a better place. So So, to me, she's kind of the role model I think about when I think about how I can give back and make a difference in the world myself.

Wow. I mean, she did this till she was almost 80. That's unbelievable.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, just a great role model to think about, you know.

Yeah, that is a great story. You know, I know you're— You're on the board of the Red Cross. And I just want to say thank goodness for the Red Cross. What did we just talk— you mentioned earlier the hurricane that was in Florida. I also want to say thank goodness for the World Institute on Disability who gets people on the ground to get people with disabilities out of harm's way. Because many times, sadly, the person in the wheelchair is left behind. You know, I think about the Ukraine, for example. Think about that. People in wheelchairs, how the heck do you get out? People who are blind, you know, with all this going around you. So that's a really wonderful thing. I mean, I bet she never would have dreamed when she started This is my big saying, John. One person, one decision can change the world. And she's that example right there that you just gave. So, John, you have done so much in your life. What would you say at this point are some of your greatest accomplishments?

Another great question. I guess first off, I'm just going to say my children as a proud father. I mean, my son has done a great job in getting off to work. He did 2 degrees at Arizona State, supply chain logistics. He's doing his MBA now. And he's working supply chain at Boeing and working on some, you know, the space program and all sorts of very interesting things that make a difference in the world. And my daughter also making a difference in the world. She's a veterinarian in Pittsburgh, right down the street from you. And so they're both doing great. They're both good people. And that really the second thing I'm most proud of is being married to my wife for almost 30 years. She's been a saint following me everywhere we've moved and done a great job raising our children with me, of course, and just a great partner in life. So proud that through all the tribulations and turns, she's been wonderful. And then when I think about about business and the work I've done, I think at the end of the day, it's just, I really try to stay in touch with everybody I've worked with and help them. You know, early on when I bring people on board, I do a 90-minute session with everybody that's a leader or a high potential or somebody who's just interested in having the conversation to really understand what their career ambitions are, where they want to go. And then I really am available for a lifetime of coaching them and help them. Be successful. And so, I've watched people, you know, go through ups and downs and help them as much as I can to get them through life. And I just get a lot of energy and I'm very proud of those people that have taken the time to think about how they can make a difference. And many of them have gotten involved. Like, I'll use Mary Davis as an example, right? You were kind enough to be a mentor for her while I was at CSC. I couldn't find enough women in leadership positions to provide coaching and mentoring. You were so kind to do that. And she ended up being on the board of the American Association of People with Disabilities and a huge advocate at CSC. So I think about people like that that have gone on to do wonderful things in life, uh, as I get a lot of energy. I'm very proud of those people, uh, to have done so much and made a difference in the world.

Yeah, and you know, um, she is an awesome person and someone Here's how innovative John is. He asked me to be her mentor. I didn't work for the company. He said, well, I could use you and I could use someone from the outside. So, and Mary Davis is just absolutely an awesome person. And that's a wonderful thing that you do, John. But I'll tell you what. Were you not in Denmark? Didn't you like lead the show there for CSC?

I did, yes, yes. It was a bit of a turnaround there, a lot of work to do, great people, hard work, but we got— we were losing, uh, you know, about $170 million a year on an $800 million business, and we got it profitable in a couple of years and started growing in other countries outside of Denmark and a across the Nordics and a very rewarding piece of work. But also, you know, while I was there, as you know, I called you and said, "Hey, how can we engage in getting people with disabilities to help us out with this journey?" So it's, you know, really was a learning experience, but I had a lot of help, you know, and with the teams that we were able to pull together to get that done. But yes, have a lot of— positive memories from such a difficult piece of work, but a lot of positive memories and just a welcoming country as well. Just really nice people. One of the happiest places on earth. You look it up.

Well, I will— you know, my point is, I remember I told you he was modest. This was a really big job that he had, and he has a lot of really big jobs everywhere he goes where he's at the top But as I told you, he is modest, and that is what makes him absolutely so wonderful. John, before I ask you this last question, what advice do you have for young people with disabilities that want to get in IT but, you know, are facing a lot of obstacles finding employment?

That's a great question. I would say that they're, you know, certainly reaching out to a company like yours to get help in finding employment. But also, if you have access to the internet, which hopefully you can find one way or another, there's a lot of training available and books in the libraries available to learn technology and get certified in technology, which can get you that that, you know, step in the door. And many of the large companies today, even IBM, Google, and others, we've really eliminated the need for a degree to do technology work. I would just say that the U.S. government is a little slow in adopting that thinking in terms of the requirements they have for people to work as a subcontractor on a particular piece of work in technology, but I'm sure that will change over time. In general, there's a huge shortage of talent in technology. There's the great resignation that you see in the news where we've lost 4 million people somehow during the COVID to do work in the workforce, and we were already behind. And if you think about places like cybersecurity, artificial intelligence, and the healthcare industry in particular where There's, you know, a lot of people getting older in the United States, and there's a shortage of people to help those folks get through those later years, including myself. So, looking forward to, you know, finding people that can help us with that. And to me, those are kind of the big areas I would think about when I'm considering what to do next in life is areas where there's going to be a shortage of talent. And really, anyone from anywhere should be able to help in that industry.

Yes. Do you think— what do you think is going to happen, John? Do you think that will change that, you know, with what's happened in the country? I'm talking about the— in IT, the shortage of people.

I think there's going to be a shortage for quite some time. I think it's, you know, people have adjusted their lifestyles to be able to work from home. Employers, in order to attract the right talent, will need to be flexible in the way they engage with their employees. And other things like just mothers at home again and being with their children and will we find a way to just have a single income. So, there's many things going on, I believe, at this time on Earth that are changing the way employers will engage with with their teams. And I think there's work to do in the educational system, as we already talked about, that hopefully that transforms here over time. But, you know, a lot of work to do still to close that gap. And, you know, there's been a shortage for years in cybersecurity. I'll just use that as an example. It's just one of those areas where, well, we could never find enough talent. And artificial intelligence is the next space where that will happen. And as we enter this metaverse, you know, there's another whole set of technologies that are there today that anyone could get certifications in to be, uh, one of those, you know, people to change the world in the— as we move from Web 2.0 to Web 3.0.

Well, that gives you a lot of information. You know, I was going to ask you a few more questions, but this shows you how great you were on the show. We're at the end of the show. So, we end every show, John, with a quote. And the quote today is, "The goal is not to be better than anyone else, but rather be better than you were yesterday," said John Gordon. Thank you, John, for being with us.

Thank you so much, Joyce Bender. Great to be here.

Well, we will look forward to talking to you all next week. And before I end, remember the words of Mary Brocker, choose joy. This is Joyce Bender, America's Voice, where disability matters, at voiceamerica.com. Talk to you all next week as we continue to celebrate National Disability Employment Awareness Month.

Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific time and 2 PM Eastern time for another installment of Disability Matters right here on the Voice America variety channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. Voice America. America.com.